Episode 18: Mac

At 91 years old, Mac is only just starting to slow down. Listen to his thoughts on faith, family, and what we need to do NOW to manage the chaos of this world.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi everybody, Tim Cunningham here again, the host of the Niners podcast. Thanks for coming back. Last episode we learned from Amanda. This episode that I'm about to share, I'm excited. Is uh Amanda's father. He's 91. And what I love about this podcast is that when I interview someone, I often learn about someone else within a family who has a nine in their age. If you have a family connection that connects you with and by the number nine, please let me know. I'm gonna interview 99 people over the course of this podcast. We have many more to go, so reach out. But for starters, enjoy this episode. Meet Mac. Good morning, good afternoon, good whatever time it is you're listening in. My name is Tim Cunningham, and I'm the host of the Niners Podcast, a podcast where we interview people who have a nine in their age, people who are nine months pregnant or nine years old, nineteen years old, 29, 39, all the way up to folks in their 90s. Because I'm curious to learn from people what it's like to be living on the edge of a decade or about to bring a new life into this planet. Or for our interview today, I'm thrilled to be interviewing Mac, who is 90. So I'm curious to know what it's like to be living on the edge of a century. Mac, it is such a treat to see you. Welcome to the podcast and thank you for being willing to be interviewed. Thank you, Tim. Thank you. So as we begin, I'll ask a few standard questions just to warm things up and then we'll see where the conversation goes. You're 90 years old, correct? Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

I'll be 90 in May.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

You'll be 91 in May. And Mac, can you tell us a little bit about first where you're from and where you currently live now?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Well, I'm originally from backwoods, Arkansas. Arkansas, I like to tell people a state that fights for representative for last place in the union. Okay. I uh I suppose I'm a card-carrying redneck. I have a few college degrees. I was a college professor and I've been a minister for the last 25 years and things like that. But my love has been building and writing. I now live in Stewart's Draft, Virginia, which is in the Sunday Valley, close to Stanton.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

And that's right, right near my folks in where I grew up in Waynesboro. And uh we may learn in this interview that we we have a shared family history as well. You know, I'm curious, and this is a bit of a side note already, do you know where the term redneck came from?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

It's uh from farmers out in the sun working, and they their necks would burn, sunburn. Okay. Sunburn. No matter what kind of slouch hats they wore, and now everybody wears duckbell hats, so they get super rednecks. But it has such a connotation of clueless backwoods folks. It's uh it's something that has a lot of meaning, actually. But it more or less means someone who's out of pocket, who's uh you think pickup trucks, you think uh chewing tobacco and moonshine whiskey and things like that. And cluelessness. I see. And my wife has often uh called me as a nickname clueless.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

I see you laughing when you say that. So that that's a good nickname, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Well, she's never called me redneck.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Right. Well, the reason I ask, I just read a book by Barbara Kingsolver called Demon Copperhead. And I know you as an avid writer and reader, have you read that book? I haven't read that one. I've read other books. Uh huh. But she had the Poison Wood Bible. That was, I think, one of her early, early books. Oh, yeah. In this book, she talks about the origins of the term redneck related to uh there was a, they said it was the bloodiest war in the US within the U.S., second to the Civil War, when there was a massive strike in West Virginia where coal miners went on strike and federal troops came in to stop the strike. And the story that she shares is that then the coal miners and the unionists who came to support them wore red bandanas around their neck to signify what side they were on. And so in her book, she talks about that's another origin story of the term redneck, which when I read that, that I had never heard that before. I thought that was fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

I'd never heard that before. I uh know about the coal strikes and the miners and that sort of country. I've done a lot of uh restoration, construction work in that region. Okay. And I know people who live there, but I had never heard that till just now.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Maybe we we both have some research to do after this interview, then. We'll see what that is. I need to find out more about this. Mac, you you've mentioned you do a lot of construction and restoration work. Can you tell us a little more about currently how do you spend your time?

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Well, I'm still building things. I'm a stonemason, I'm a blacksmith. I was a specialist in traditional log cabins, appalacient log cabins, and I'm building one last one. Oh, okay. In the woods behind my place. And it's gonna be a sort of a man cave. I'm gonna hang my antique tools there and the grandkids can play on the loft and that sort of thing. It's not to be lived in, it's just it's just a log cabin. So I uh I've uh always built. When I was eleven and my brother was 13, we dismantled and moved a 30-foot log cabin. My father wanted us to learn how to build, so we rebuilt it ourselves. He said, if you need help, come on. My brother uh was very stubborn, and he never called my dad to help. We worked it out ourselves, ages 11 and 13. And then our family moved into it. Wow. It's still standing in rural Arkansas.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Little man lives in it now. Amazing. So your your your man cave, your current cabin and your former cabin, I mean, are they fully plumbed and have electric or are these pretty rustic?

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Well, the one that we moved uh was modernized later. Uh, when I grew up, my grandmother moved into it and I put a bathroom addition on it. Okay. The one I build over here will be authentic. It won't have plumbing. Uh it's just gonna be uh, as I said, sort of a museum, actually.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

And you mentioned grandchildren playing in it. How many grandchildren do you have? Gosh, we've got eleven. Eleven. Yes. So are you gonna build a separate room in the cabin for each of your grandchildren?

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Uh no, we're not gonna do that. We're not gonna do that. There are regulations and things like that. It'd be a farm, it'd be an outbuilding. That sounds lovely. A museum. Because I've got a lot of antique twos. I'm a blacksmith, I make twos, and I'll be hanging axes around and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Wagging wheels, you know. Good Virginia looking farm. Mac, you're ninety, you're almost ninety-one. Can you tell us a little bit about what excites you most about moving into the next few years?

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Well, I uh have been a minister for twenty-five years and we never retire. I still do weddings, I do funerals, I'm asked to preach occasionally and lead uh uh retreats and Bible studies. So I'll be doing that as long as I'm able, and I'm gonna be keep writing. I have five more finished novels. I have sixteen published novels, and I have five more finished ones. Unfortunately, my publisher went out of business at the end of last year, so I'm looking for another publisher. But I am still writing. Working on I'm working on three more novels uh now. So I get up early and I work a few hours every morning, and I write. Okay. So I'm gonna keep writing. It's gonna keep uh keep me busy. I've always told stories and I'm gonna keep telling stories, true or not.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Okay. And is there a common theme in your novels?

SPEAKER_01 8:06

About half of them are historical, because I love history, which is why I did restoration contracting. I've uh built covered bridges, restored grist mills, restored old churches, and many, many, many log cabins. So the historical part. My wife is handing me a book. This is a book about my two great grandmother, who was an incredible woman. She was a sharpshooter, she was a blacksmith, she freed her inherited slaves, she was a horse racer, she had eleven children.

unknown 8:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

And uh got into politics and did all kinds of things. And I researched her for 40 years. Wow. And it took me three books to tell her story. So it's a trilogy.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Three books. And I saw the title of that one is Tranquilla, the Spanish word.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

She went through the Civil War and she lost two husbands and uh two of her uh four of her children before they were grown. And my wife refers to her as an anti-Scarlet O'Hara.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

And was was she based in Arkansas then? Where were your your family's originally from? Mississippi. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

The book starts with a move from North Carolina into Mississippi at the age of 14.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

So you're a you're you're a historian, you're a living historian, you're carrying with you yourself 91 years of lived experience plus 16 novels of of other lived experiences. Let's I want to look back with you, but let's look back just 10 years maybe. How would you say in the last decade you've changed?

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Okay, I've slowed down as of this last year. I haven't really uh felt that I've slowed down at all until I hit 90. Maybe that's psychological, I'm not sure. But 10 years ago, I was still a contractor. I had a business, I hired people, I trained people. I've taught a lot of craft workshops, weeklong workshops where people would learn blacksmithing or cabin building or timber framing or uh stonework. I have three of my how-to books are on stone. I'm considered a master stonemason, but that's sort of an honorary title.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

And are there are there sort of stonemason unions? And, you know, I think about in, you know, your daughter Amanda, who I know she directed a show I was in. She and I both have worked in acting and been a part of the actors union. Are there similar unions with stonemasons and contractors?

SPEAKER_01 10:48

There could be. There was an international, there is an international organization called, what is it, Linda? I forget. Stone Foundation. Stone Foundation out of Santa Fe, New Mexico. And I'm a member of that, but I've grown sort of an actor. They're the ones who called me the master mason. And I didn't resist because I've done doing stonework since uh I was 13. Wow. And I'm still doing it. I'm still doing it.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

But it what a generous title.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Probably unions. Uh Amanda was my right hand growing up, and she became a very, very good stonemason. We did a we restored a log cabin a few years ago, and she and a helper did most of the stonework. She was between, you know, she's gone all over the world and done all kinds of things with theater, but when she's home, we always do something in stone. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Sort of a ritual, Amanda and I have. That's really nice. I think about all that I've learned from Amanda. You know, she directed a show I was in, and we've we've seen theater together, but I never knew she was also a stonemason. And that makes sense because working with Amanda, working with Lauren on my play, they both, when we had an issue, they were just like, we're gonna fix it this way. I mean, they they're always they're such great pop problem solvers.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Well, Lauren had become the best in the world at sinking a log cabin, putting the mortar between the logs.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

And she would actually leave a job and come work with me when I would restore one, because she loved doing it.

unknown 12:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

And so Lauren is uh Lauren and Amanda both are just incredible craft people.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Mac, you mentioned you noticed that you slowed down a good bit when you turned 90. How is that for you physically and mentally, recognizing that that things have slowed down a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Mentally, it doesn't bother me, but physically I have to cut down on my hours. When I was young, I used to do 14-hour days, then I dropped down to 12-hour days, then 10-hour days, now I do maybe four-hour days. And I take the next day off.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

I see. So for every other that's about right. Mac, looking back to when you were were 80, would there be any advice you might give yourself if you could go back in time 10 years? Anything you would want to teach yourself?

SPEAKER_01 13:15

I wish I had more time to do the things I love. I love restoring antique cars, I love uh blacksmithing. I make uh specialty knives, bowie knives. We did a workshop once and we made 32 knives for people, and secretaries would want big hunting knives. And I said, What are you gonna do with that? And they said, Self-defense. Oh wow. But no, I I wish basically that uh I had more time to do more things and visit more now friends. I have friends all over the place. I lived in North Arkansas, which is now Buffalo River is now National Park, and I have friends there, and I don't get back often enough to see them. I used to have a canoe and run rivers and the wilder the river, the better. I don't do that anymore. I don't do that anymore, but I like to uh go visit the people who still do it.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Are people able to come visit you all? I I know that you moved a little closer to Ashley and her family, and do you still have visitors? Oh, you still are?

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yes, uh we're still it's taking us a long time to get settled here because as Linda Man mentioned, we moved from a 4,000 square foot house to a 2,000 square foot house, and we're still trying to make it fit. We haven't opened it up. When we had the big house, we had a lot of uh visitors, a lot of parties, people would stay over sometimes for a week, and we kind of uh recreated the old southern plantation visitation thing because we had six bedrooms and people could stay over and all that. I like to tell people I added on to my house as my children grew, and I would come home from work and there'd be six kids in the house I'd never seen before. Allowing fire fire. So, you know, it was a lot of fun. We can't really do that here. And I kind of miss it because having all that room was fun.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Wow. So you have five children, eleven grandchildren, quite a family.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Is it eleven or nine? It's eight plus two.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

Eight plus two. Eight plus two. We got ten. I love it. Well, Mac, you know, we've talked about some of the things that you're excited about moving forward over the next few years, the work that you do. You've slowed your working hours a little bit, but sounds like you're still doing them consistently. As you think forward over the next few years and maybe even into the next century, is there anything that concerns you?

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Yes, the current world chaos is a real bother. And being a minister, I see a lot of a lot of difficulty ahead with people staying on course and keeping the faith. And uh, we've got all this uh we have freedom of choice, and people can choose what they want to do. That's not being recognized enough. There's too much divisiveness, too many people saying it's uh us versus them. And we can't do that. We've got we're in this together. We've in the last um ten, fifteen years, we've been divided so much in the world, and that that concerns me a lot. And that's kind of the message that I use when I preach a sermon or when I do a religious retreat or something. When I just got together with a bunch of people and talk about things.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

We've got to come together. Okay. And at the time of this recording, you know, this will interview will be shared a little bit later, but at the time of the recording, we know in the news we're learning about the airstrikes in Iran and and just the violence all over the Middle East that's accelerating. And that for me feels like that will lead to more divisiveness. To your point, over the last decade, we've seen more and more of that, and that it's certainly frightening.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Well, there's so much going on that we are not privy to. I was in uh I was in mass communication journalism. That's what my degrees are in for many years, and I have seen the media go off the deep end and was kind of being controlled a little too much by the media. We used to call it gatekeeping, the things you don't report, and we're being subjected to that a lot and being manipulated a little too much by that. The bottom line is a lot of people are making a lot of money out of keeping us in a chaotic situation. That concerns me a lot. Uh I d I deplore war of any kind, violence of any kind, but we sometimes need to do preemptive strikes. I have ancestors in the Revolutionary War, in the Civil War. My brother was uh in Korean War. We learn that sometimes it's necessary when we ferret out something that's about to happen, we have to stop it. And usually most of us don't really know the whole picture. And then something happens, we get part of the picture, and that divides us more. Transparency would be nice.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Yes. Well, you know, and thinking about these very real concerns, and many people that I interview share your concerns about the state of the world. And you've mentioned your work as a pastor and having conversations with people. What are some ways that you see you can alleviate some of those worries for you and alleviate some of the divisions between people? What what can you do?

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Unfortunately, it has to start at the local level. It has to start with group uh block parties, group meetings, uh concerned people getting together, electing the local officials who can make a change and praying a lot. Praying a lot. I believe sincerely in connecting with the Creator and allowing the Holy Spirit to work. And I don't proselytize a whole lot. I don't preach fire and brimstone. I try to preach reason. Uh we're given brains to use, and we're not using them very wisely sometimes. But it has to start on the local level. People a lot of times don't vote for local candidates, they just vote for president or senator or representative, and it has to start locally. That's where it has to come from, the people.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Yes. And I think you raised such an important point about that and and also prayer and the power of prayer. And I, you know, some of the research that I've done in the past on compassion. Before we started recording, Linda and I were talking about our definition of compassion, but there's also evidence that says when you slow your mind down and slow your breathing down, there's spiritual benefit, but also physical benefit to the power of prayer. It helps us think more clearly. It helps us, I think, in some of the research that I'm reading, be more connected with other human beings as well.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Very much so, Marvel. Very much so. We go to a little non-denominational church. I was, I am a Presbyterian pastor, but that church is split so many ways and it's fighting itself. And so we go to a non-denominational with a uh local preacher who lives a hundred yards from where he was born 79 years ago, and he and I are best friends, and occasionally he will ask me, uh, like he's going out west to do a wedding, he wants me to do the church that week, which is fine. And I I had 20 years of my own church, and I started when I was 68 and left when I was 88. So that's just two years ago. Wow. So I traveled uh 80 miles round trip each week to go to that church. Uh this one's just down the road a couple of miles, so it's it's a lot easier. He's actually a Mennonite pastor. He uh didn't like the way the major church was going. A little too much materialism, a little too much popular culture. So instead of retiring, he started his own church about two years ago. That's something I retired.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Well, as you may know, I was raised Presbyterian as well, growing up in Waynesboro. And I can say the church I was raised in has continued to have lots of divisions over political issues, over all sorts of issues. And I tell you, as it's been hard to stick with some of the things that I was taught as a young child in church, as I've learned more about other religions and other points of view. And how do we maintain that sense of connectedness, even if we disagree? How do we still stay together and stay connected?

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Well, I had a great aunt that I spent a week with out in Tucson back when I was 20. I was traveling around the country. I dropped out of college uh one of two or three different times. It took me seven years to get through undergraduate school, and she had studied religious all her life. She went to To the female version of Harvard, which was Radcliffe back then. And she said religions are notable for their similarity, not their differences. You have a creator, you have a relationship with hit him, her, whatever, and we are responsible to that creator. And then Christians have Jesus who is the go-between, who is the way, and that's what the Christian church was called originally, the way. And so it need not be the two to four thousand religions in the world today. Because we're all headed the right direction, the same direction, and it should be the right direction. And yet we celebrate our differences. And in the Islamic situation, it gets violent. And in some other situations in the past, even the Christians have gotten violent. The Jewish people have gotten violent. And there's no place for that. There's no place for that. There's no room for that. That's not what we were created for.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

We were created to help each other. It's that simple. And it feels to me as I've learned more, and I and no religion is perfect. There's a dark history to every major religion and a very light history. And meaning light and working towards the right path, it seems.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

We tend to put our own span on everything because we're all a little different. We're not cookie cut of the same. Thank goodness. We have to allow. We have to allow for the individual to take some things. And sometimes in the fundamental churches, they don't want that. They want it their way, and that's the way it's gotta be. But uh we were all created a little differently. Even even identical twins have different paths they follow. Yeah. Have on a number of identical twins and been friends with them and gotten on one side of discussions with one against the other.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

And uh there's room for all of us. There is, you know, and you know what? I have a twin. We're not identical, we're fraternal, and my brother and I are similar in many ways, but also extremely different in a lot of ways. And what a what a gift to have difference.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Yeah. I have a brother, I just buried one two a year years or two ago, who's very religious. I buried my sister, who was extremely religious last October. And I have a younger brother who's an atheist. He's 85 years old, and he doesn't even want to talk about any kind of higher power. Hey, that's his choice. That's his choice. Yeah, we're still brothers. In fact, he loves to edit my books. I just sent him one I finished this last week, one of my five unfinished unpublished novels, the fifth unpublished novel. And he he loves to edit them. And he's good at it. And he likes my books. He and his wife read constantly. They've got their choices, and you know, and I respect that.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

You reminded me years ago, Mac, and I think probably 20 years ago for me, there was a woman who was a a neighbor in a town called Urbana, Virginia. She she passed when she was 96. And when she was 94, I used to have have supper with her, and we would chat. And I remember when she was 94, she paused in the middle of a conversation, she said, Tim, you know what? I've been Southern Baptist all my life. And I think her husband was uh an informal minister in their small church. Um, and she said, and he passed uh 15 years before she did, or 20. And she said, All my life I've been Southern Baptist, and she said, I've just started to read about indigenous people, indigenous people uh across the US. And she said, All the things I taught and learned about them growing up that seem so negative, there's a lot of truth in that. And she said, one thing that I'm sad about is that I don't feel like I have enough time to learn more about indigenous cultures and their views on God and creator. And I remember, and I forgot about this conversation until just now, where she said, there's so much more out there. And how do we keep asking questions and learning? And I'm hearing tones of that in what you're sharing as well. Is is that sound accurate? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

That's great out I talked about until she died. She was still studying and still, excuse me. And she urged me at the age of 20 to don't ever stop digging, don't ever stop learning. And I intend to go out of this life with a big smile on.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Well, Mac, before you do that, I want to ask about some advice. If you were to select another niner, someone at the end of a decade with a nine in their age, 79, 89, or looking for 99 or 19, what age group would that be? And what advice might what you want to give to them?

SPEAKER_01 26:51

In my case, it would be somebody young enough to still have a lot of vitality, strength. I mean, I work out and I do physical labor and that sort of thing, and I haven't gotten to the point I can't do things. But I would uh I would I would be more apt to give advice to somebody who still has the potential to do physical things. Because still, that when I'm doing something, like if I'm hammering out a bowie knife or if I'm putting up a log on a cabin, that's brings peace and contentment to me. And so being in the woods, we fortunately have a couple of acres of woods here, even in this little place. Being in the woods is great, being where it's quiet as wonderful as often as you can, but also have things to do, physical things to do that you enjoy. Because so many people don't like their jobs. They hate going to work in the morning. The many, many years that I did construction and restoration, I looked forward to going to work. And the thing that I regretted was I had to play manager when I had a company and ten people depending on me, or fifteen people depending on me. I wanted to do it myself. And I always climbed up the tallest chimney, did the stonework up there, never fell. And I just would advise someone to stay active and but have those periods of just getting out in the woods and listening to to the choir. We have a big geological pond behind our house, and the geese love it there. And we love the geese. They walk up on our yard, we've got squirrels all over the place, raccoons, ducks on the pond, all of this sort of thing. And we just have everything we need right here. And I would advise people to find those places in time, even if you go to a park or take a trip or visit somebody in the country where you can get away from the noise and the fumes, but also stay active. Use those abilities that you build up in your life to that point. And uh don't don't miss the opportunity to put something together you can be proud of or somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

I've got two more questions for you, Mac. All right. First one is at this point in your life, at 91 years old, what would you say matters the most to you?

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Well, my faith, it would have to be the first. Okay. My relationship with my wife, Linda, we've been married 52 plus years. We support each other, we're a team. That matters a huge amount. Uh my relationship with my children and grandchildren is extremely, extremely uh important. Their welfare in this chaotic world is something I worry about. I mean, I won't be around, well, who knows how long. I I tease people and I say, you know, next 30, 40 years might be rough. But I don't worry about me much. I'll worry about Linda because I'm 10 years older than she is. She just she's 80. And she missed the nine, or I know.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Well, Linda, I'll interview, and Linda, for listeners, is in the room as well, helping out with tech. Linda, I'll interview in nine years. How about that? Okay. Well, down for my words. What matters most to you? What matters most to you? Well, and and and saying that, and especially with you know how much family matters to you, as we wrap, are there any thoughts that you would love to share with your your children or grandchildren or extended family on this interview as they listen in?

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Well, old people always want their kids and grandkids to visit them more often. I mean, that's universal with us old people. And that boils down to what we kind of would like most is to see our family more and our friends. Our friends are scattered out all over the place. I've got those close friends in Arkansas, and driving or flying to Arkansas is kind of difficult. I have a daughter in Idaho, and I have to take three planes out and three planes back to see her. I've got a daughter in Portland, kinda, and seeing her is very difficult. So we're cutting down on our travel, and uh i i it's important to see family and to stay connected regardless of what the circumstances are, because we only have so much time.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Yeah. Thank you for that. Well, Mac, this has been such a gift. Is there anything else you'd like to share with us before I stop this recording?

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Well, just we all need to keep connected, we all need to allow for each other's opinions. We mustn't lose sight of the basic right and wrong, however, because regardless of our slant on things, we must recognize there is a basic right and a basic wrong. And we know the extremes, we know that murder and things like that are wrong. We know that child molesting is wrong, but where do we draw the line? When do we start being wrong? Or when is that wrong just our opinion? We need to work on that. We need to clarify that a little more. And I think it would help bring the world together if we did. And we need to realize that nowhere were we promised that this life would be easy. That's hard for people to understand. We were we have to work to stay connected. We have to work to help other people. And as the Bible tells us, when uh Adam was driven out of the garden, he was put to work digging in the ground. And that hasn't changed. We have to put to work, no matter what it is, work toward togetherness. We're put here to help each other.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Yeah, Mac, thank you so much. And thank you all for listening and joining us here on the Niners Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Cunningham. Tune in for our next drop, and I'll be interviewing my friend Aliyah, who is at the turn of her next decade facing some huge, huge life changes. Things she's never done before, and she's jumping in head first. Thanks especially to Jim Cornell for our intro and outro music, and tune in for our future episodes of the Niners podcast. Take care.