Episode 25: Hilary

Hilary, 69, was born in the backseat of a car. She's busy creating new theatre, learning all she can when and where she can, doesn't even have the word "retirement" in her vocabulary. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I'm really excited, and I don't think I could have done this show ten years ago.

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

So that's a kind of glorious thing about going into my 70th year. You know, I realized as I was improvising out in in Las Vegas, I was like, I just wanna I wanna say things that I that I wouldn't have said, that I would have been a little timid to say or embarrassed to say. But I feel like the older I get, the less embarrassed I get. I just I realize it doesn't it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Good afternoon, good morning, whatever time you're listening, and welcome back to the Niners Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Cunningham, and I'm thrilled to continue to interview friends and people I'm just getting to know, asking them questions, what it's like to live on the edge of a decade, a century. Some folks who are nine months pregnant that I interview are on the edge of about to bring a new life onto this planet. And today I'm thrilled to be interviewing my friend and mentor, one of the early hospital clowns in the US, a woman from whom I've learned a ton, Hillary. Hilary, it is great to see you and welcome to the Niners Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Thank you so much. It's really a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

As we jump in, as this is a podcast about our ages, can you tell us how old you are today, Hillary?

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Today I am 69 and seven months and about a week or two weeks. Yeah, seven and a half months.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Seven and a half months. So then that would land your birthday in June 17th. All right.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

I was born on Father's Day.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

And I was born on my parents' fifth wedding anniversary. And I was born in the car. My father delivered me.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Where where were you born?

SPEAKER_00 1:51

In Boston.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

In Boston.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

On that bridge, right in front of the uh Museum of Science.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Yeah. So were were your parents on the way to the hospital and then They were.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

They were. And they had a policeman driving the car because my my I was I was I was in a hurry. And so my dad pulled into a police station. Any of you guys know how to deliver a baby? And they said, No. He said, Well, you get in the back car. In the you you drive, I'll get in the back. His friend, the doctor, had kind of given him a little rough play-by-play.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

And they did it.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

What happened when they went to the hospital where they were just like, all right, go home, clean up your car.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Well, no, they they had to stop at Mass General. They were on their way to Beth Israel, but Mass General was c closer. Okay. And an intern came out in his stalking feet and uh cut the umbilical cord at the car, and they sent them off to uh Beth Israel Hospital. And I think they were there overnight just to make sure we were okay. And it made the front page of the Boston Herald. So I was I was bound for glory.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

You know, there you were from day one. You've had this long, amazing career starting in the back of a car. So you were born in Boston. Um are you are you still in Boston? Where tell us a little bit about where you live now.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

No, I lived in New York City, Brooklyn mostly, for 37 years. And now I've been a year and a half in Peekskill, New York, which is one hour north of the city.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Sounds like there's a growing community of clowns up your way.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

There is. We call it clown town or Bozo Row, whatever you like. There's a handful of us. Really nice. You know, I I've always I didn't expect to live in New York City for 37 years, but I always said until I had a place I really wanted to go or a reason to go, I would stay. And I love it. I mean, I loved my little corner of Brooklyn, but I have good friends who live up here, and I was hearing about them getting together for dinner, for kayaking, for a walk. I was like, it's too far for me to go for a little jaunt, you know, or often enough. So I moved because I had a reason to. And now I have room. Room. I have room. Room and a yard.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

I see a ro yard out your window you showed me earlier. Two rooms, two rooms.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

A back patio and a little back deck as well. And I have two bedrooms and I have an office, and I have an attic, and I have a basement. So I can I can have a lot of people here, and it's it's great.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

You know, you say you lived 37 years in New York, and I've known about you for a long time. We finally met, and I believe you and I met in Colombia. We were working at a The Clown in Quintrow.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

So though the first time we met.

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Though you've been in New York for 37 years, I think you're probably one of the busiest world travelers I've ever known.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Always I think it sounds like I'm busier than I am, because you hear about when I'm off doing things, and you don't hear about when I'm just home. That said, sometimes I'm too busy. Sometimes I'm busier and running around a little more than I want to be.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Yeah. And if listeners haven't figured out by the context clues yet what you do, can you tell us a little bit about what keeps you busy?

SPEAKER_00 4:59

I can. I am trained as an actor and really never wanted to be a clown, but I ended up being a clown and finally accepted it when I understood the profundity of the clown and the depth of the art. And then I realized, yeah, I really, I really am a clown. And um, so I'm a I do a lot of physical comedy in my work. I have a solo show. I'm actually working on a solo show, even though I said I never wanted to, I didn't want to do another solo show, but I'm I'm now compelled. I have another show that involves a couple of puppeteers as well. It's a really fun Holocaust show. Fun Holocaust show.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Okay. Yeah. It's kind of um rat tattoo he meets the Holocaust. It's about a woman who's a cabaret comedian who ends up in the concentration camp in Theresenstadt and meets a rat who helps her find her will to survive. And the rat is a little puppet, 12 inches tall, and it has songs and projections of artwork, but done in a really interesting, artful way with overhead projector or a camera. And um, it looks like we may be moving things towards doing a run in New York City, off or off Broadway, off or off off. So we'll see. We're in the middle of all that right now. It's it's a it's a a lot of work, and we'll figure it out. Congratulations. Thank you. I've also been a hospital clown for many years, entertaining hospitalized children and their families, staff, whoever we come in contact with, and we've done a little bit of work with people with dementia. Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

You know, and I think that's where I teach. And you teach. And I teach. I first heard your name, I think, when I had gotten hired by the Big Apple Clown Big Apple Circus Clown Care up at Boston Children's, and people kept saying, Well, Hillary would do it this way, or Hillary did this. Really? 80% of what they said was really positive and really good. So I was like, I gotta meet this woman someday.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

What was the other 20%?

SPEAKER_02 6:59

I mean, call Rob. Ask Rob. He'll tell you. Just kidding. Just kidding. It was it was such an honor to actually meet you in real life because I mean you were one of the founders of the clown care program, the early legislators.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

I came in six months after it was founded. So there were there were six others before me. And then I came in.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

And what a legacy. Yeah. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Incredible what's happened with this as uh as a profession, as an art form. Now countries all over the world. I wonder how many countries don't have a clown program. Yeah, yeah. Very few. Yeah. It's so true. And now we have international conferences. Two years ago in The Hague, there were 400 of us from 70 countries, if I get have my numbers correct.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

That's so amazing.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

And a lot of people still have never heard of it. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

And a lot of people as I'm sure you've seen in this country, really have an aversion to clowns, which I don't see outside of the US as much. Is that a similar experience for you?

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Nope. Yep. Not as much. Not as much. Yeah. I think uh there are certain things that gave clown kind of a negative name here, partly the horror clown thing. And I don't think horror clown is necessarily a bad thing. Everything in its time and place. You know, movies like it make people think, or The Joker make people think that clowns there's something, something lurking behind there that you can't trust.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Or the creepy clown costumes that show up at clown spirit every Halloween. Right. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Hillary.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

And there's something really fun about creepy clowns.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Yeah. I mean, but isn't that part of clown too? Like clown, as I've learned it, is it's exploring the edges of humanity.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Isn't that everything? Exactly. It's everything that we are is clown. Just going to go trying to exaggerate it and go deeper into the truth of it. You know, it's the problem comes is when it's laid on top and there's no no nothing real under it. But really the clown is facing facing the facing humanity head on and looking at the things that upset us, that we love, that we hate, that we desire. All the the that we love. Did I say love? It's it's all the human emotions to a grander level.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

And offering, as you do, as I've seen you perform on stage, the opportunity for the audience to feel all of those while we're safe because we're sitting in the audience or standing in the crowd, and you're taking risks for us so that we can feel the entire spectrum.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Right. I allow myself to be laughed at and to be vulnerable as a gift to the audience because the audience feels themselves in me. But as you say, they're in the safe spot. They're just they're watching. But it gives people relief and allows them to bring a little levity into their own life because it's hard to take something as seriously as we do when we're laughing at it.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

You have inspired laughter for decades around the world. You're 69, you're moving into a new decade. Can you share with us a little bit about what that feels like and what excites you specifically about moving into the next decade of your life?

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Well, most of the time I'm delighted to tell people that I'm 69. Here and there I want to hide it a little bit because of ageism. Uh, but I think I'm aging pretty well. I'm still very physical. I exhaust myself sometimes. I have to remember not to teach falling off a chair at the end of a three-day workshop on the last day, you know?

SPEAKER_02 10:38

So first day is okay to teach falling off the chair, but last day, okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Oh no, by the time I'm really exhausted, it's it's just stupid. I have to teach it on the first day, and I almost never do. But what excites me, you know, I'll tell you this. When I turned 60, my mother turned 90. And she was still doing quite well. Okay. But it's the first time in my life life I realized that she was 30 years older than me. I I just didn't realize I was looking at my mom thinking, she's still doing really well at 90. So I have a lot of time ahead of me, and I better get off off my ass and do something and keep doing things. So it was really inspiring for me to realize that. Lately, I don't know if it's because I'm turning 70. I think maybe it is. Part of me has been going, hmm, I'm kind of on the wind down. Maybe I don't want to go running around as much anymore. And I like being home. And partly it's because I have a nice apartment to be home in. I like living here. I'm still trying to make more local friends, which which I'm doing. Um I'm still away a lot, so it's hard. But in the last couple of months now, things have kind of changed, and I think, oh my God, my 70s are gonna be supercharged. Or at least the first part of it. Because, you know, I tour solo a lot and touring dragging two 50-pound box and suitcase around and a backpack, going to the airport, going, getting on my plane, getting off, finding my hotel or the home or wherever I'm staying, if I'm not being picked up, just all of that, all of the work that it takes to travel is really hard. You know, people think it's glamorous, but it's it's it's not so glamorous. There are moments that are fantastic, and I have friends all over the world, and I see them over and over in different places, and that's beautiful. But the everyday crap of it is really, it's really hard. I think, oh my God, do I want to keep doing that? So I didn't really want to do another solo show. But I came up with a character in a workshop because I still take workshops. I love studying, I love being in workshops. I'm often the oldest one now, which is kind of fun too. Um, because I'm proving that age means wisdom, you know?

SPEAKER_02 13:00

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

I mean, my God, I've been taking workshops 40 years. If I walk into a workshop, I'm not one of the ones that doesn't know anything. Yeah. I know what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Do your teachers worry sometimes? Are they like, oh my god, Hillary Chaplin's in my workshop? What am I gonna do? I better look good. Like, well, I don't know, maybe. I think I would. I think I would be very Hillary, what do you think? Hillary, actually, what are you what do you want to teach?

SPEAKER_00 13:22

I think, you know, I love taking workshops where I don't know anybody because then there are no expectations. Because, you know, they may have that feeling, but then I also have the feeling of, God, you know, I kind of have a reputation. So I better be good. And it's hard to fail. And part of part of these workshops is about failing. It's about being bad and figuring out why and seeing what you can adjust to do better. So I have to be able to be bad. So, you know, that's more of it for me. I'm sure there are people who have whatever feelings. Yeah. I I I hear that. I don't really live that. I find that still hard to believe that people have those feelings about me, but I guess they they do. They do. So I was inspired by this character and now I've gotten her out to play a couple of times. And I've just come back from Las Vegas where I was working with a woman named Shannon Calcutta, who is an amazing guide with creating shows. And I have so much material. It's it's really exciting because it's also very different for me, which is also part of turning 70 or going into the next decade. It's like, I don't care. I d I just don't care. I want this show. I want to talk about things that I've been afraid to talk about. I want to talk about show parts of myself that that I might not have 10 years ago. Yeah. You know, the ugly, gritty side, the part of me that's getting older, the part of me that worries about getting older, the part of me that's lonely. Because I am single. We didn't bring that up yet. I'm single. I've been single currently now for three years, I think. A little over three years. And um I'm quite happy being sing single, but at the same time, sometimes I hear about people having, you know, a couple roommates they're living with or a a sweetheart there, a partner they're living with. Yeah, it's gotta be nice a lot of the time to come home to somebody. You know, turn up the heat, throw on some leftovers, cook a little meal, you know, take out the garbage. But I do it all. And I'm very capable, very capable, but I get tired of doing it all. So this show is partly about all those issues. And it's gonna be really funny. I'm gonna sing. Um, I'm gonna sing. She's an old cabaret performer who has to come out of retirement because she's lost all of her benefits. And you know, she's known everybody. She's dated Picasso. You know, she she said said to Picasso, no, move the eyes a little bit further off. You know, don't put both breasts in the same place. Kind of like a forest gump of the cabaret.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Does she have a name yet?

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Sylvia.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Sylvia.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Yeah, that was my mother's name, and somehow it just seems seemed right. I can I can show you. Let's see. Yeah. Let's see a picture. Let's take a look at Sylvia.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Would you call Sylvia a clown? Would you call this solo show a clown show?

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yeah, it's something somewhere between a clown show I'm looking for and a buffon.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Yeah, I love I see Buffon. She's got the the big white collar and the Yeah, and and Tiara crown.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

She's got long breasts. I I haven't figured them out yet.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Those go down to her waist.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yes. Now mine don't go that far, but you know, things do start to sag as we get older. We're in a diaper at first, too. And you know, I'll probably talk about constipation incontinence, you know. Now these these breasts, I'm hoping they won't be out the whole time. I haven't figured out the costume. This is just a you know, for for rehearsal sake for creation.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

I can imagine if they're out the whole time, they probably would chafe a lot during the show as well. I can only imagine.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

If they were real.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

If they were real. Wait, they're not real? They look so real.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Those were not real. Those are not mine.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

But it's funny because in case you're listening and not watching the video audience, um, Hillary just showed me a picture of of Sylvia, this character, and they are not real breasts hanging down to her belly.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

No, they're not. Oh, and I think they're gonna have I think there's gonna be sorry, they look like they could be imaginative. Yeah, one of the breasts is probably gonna have scotch in it. And the other one will have something non-alcoholic for non-drinkers.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

So so you're offering something to your audience.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Oh, yes. I'll I'll be asking them questions about themselves too, you know. Cannot wait. Yeah. So I'm really excited, and I don't think I could have done this show 10 years ago. Okay. So that's a kind of glorious thing about going into my 70th year.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

I'm curious about why you couldn't you have done this 10 years ago and looking back, how have you changed over the last 10 years?

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Yeah, I don't think, you know, I realized as I was improvising out in in Las Vegas, I was like, I just want to I wanna say things that I that I wouldn't have said, that I would have been a little timid to say or embarrassed to say. But I feel like the older I get, the the less embarrassed I get. I just I realize it doesn't it doesn't matter. I mean, I'm still I'm still somewhat timid in some ways. I can be a bit body shy because I don't think I think there's been about a year of my life where I didn't think I was a few pounds overweight. I mean I just think I've got a big butt. And and I I mean everybody tells me I don't. This body dysm what is it called? Dysmorphia.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Dysmorphia, yeah. Body dysmorphia.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Yeah, you know, you grow up with certain things, you're being told certain things as a child, and it's very hard to let go of them. My father used to put his hands on my little on my waist and go, just enough to hold on to. And then I'd come home from college, say, look, dad, pinch, pinch, you can't pinch it. Oh, and I had a I had a theater teacher who uh when I went dancing across the floor, she said, Hillary, yes, do you want to be an actor? Yes, lose some weight. Wow. So those things hold on even into your 70s.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Lifetime of messages. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

A lifetime. And uh it's very hard to let go of those things. I mean, I I hope by the time I turn 70 I can let go of that one. I've got four and a half months.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

There's your work, there's your therapy, and you got your homework.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, well, just just revealing fears, fears about growing old and not having somebody to wipe my ass, you know? That's um wasn't as prevalent 10 years ago. And it still could change. I could still meet somebody. I'm out there, I'm doing this podcast so that I can find some dates, you know?

SPEAKER_02 20:03

You hear that, everyone. And that's why, as we mentioned, I'm not just interviewing one person from each decade. I'm interviewing 99 people all together. So I've got a whole collection of 49, 59, 69, 79-year-olds on this podcast. So any of you that have been interviewed, if you're single, you've got my number. If Hillary's down, I'll give you hers.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

That's right. Actually, I'm looking for uh I'd prefer a 40, a 59-year-old.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

59, okay. 59-year-olds on this podcast. No, no. I'm about to be 49, well, in two years, and I'm I'm way too immature. I I think I'll I'll come into my maturity at least by 59. I hope.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

I hope I hope. I hope so, Tim. Yeah, I hope so. Working.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

We're working on it. I hope we're still friends then. You haven't cut me out of your life.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

I think we'll be friends.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Hillary T.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

I don't know if I'll date you, but Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

I guess. Well, my next question was to ask you out, but I guess I'll skip that question then. My other next question, uh, as you think about you know, your excitement of moving into the next decade, uh do you have concerns of what that looks like? You mentioned being single to some extent, yeah, engaging, but what comes to mind?

SPEAKER_00 21:03

I don't have any I don't have any kids. I don't have a partner, uh, I have nieces, but they're on the West Coast, and I have a nephew uh that I've always stayed close with. My sister used to make him say when he'd ask for his pacifier, he had to say, I love you, mommy, may I have my pacifier? And then it changed to I love you, mommy, and I'll take care of you when I'm old, when you're old. So I pulled that one on him sometimes too.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

That's sweet.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Yeah, the um being alone worries me a little bit. I am really good at being alone. I spend a lot of time alone, but I am constantly trying to cultivate my f new friendships and my uh keep my old friendships alive. And I'm kind of the social director of our little clown town here because I'm the only one that's single. Well, Adam is single too. His wife passed away, but most of them are in couples. And so I organize us at times. The other thing is I live in an apartment that has four levels. And I figure, well, you know, this is not the last place I'll live because I don't have a bedroom on the first level. So, you know, I do I do already think about where will I go next. But I think I could have a good ten years in this place of a year and a half down now. But I've got to go running up and down the stairs. And I did fall down the other day. Oh no, my own fault. I have a curtain that keeps the heat in the up you know from going up the stairs. And it was a little too long, and I stepped on it and I slipped just two steps. Oh shoot. But it was a terrible feeling. And I never want to fall down those stairs again.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Was it also day three of your workshop? That's probably why you fell.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

No. I think about getting one of those, you know, clap, clap, something, because I'm alone here. You know, I it it would it would a long time would have to pass before the smell would start going through the walls or out the front. Nobody would know.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Yeah. And you smell really good. Like I I I'm, you know, I'm still not trying to ask you out, but you smell good, so it'd take even longer for the smell.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

You smell good when I'm fresh.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

When you're fresh. What was that TV show or TV commercial where people would fall and they had a little thing around their neck and they'd press the button, I've fallen and I can't get up. Can't get up. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

I think I should have actually in the show, I'm gonna do something where I fall down on the ground. Okay. And I'm gonna get people to help me up. And I'm gonna make it really hard for them to pick me up so that it can't be one person can't do it. Even two. I have to get a whole group of people to get me back up. And then I'll I'll do it like kind of as a game. Is she gonna fall or some shit?

SPEAKER_02 23:41

We get a couple bourbon squirts while they're trying to get you up and you scream like and and you know, I feel like every time I've seen you, especially over the last few years in New York City, it's been like a clown's lawyers fundraiser or a dinner. You're always with people. And I think that's something that I really admire about you. Even as someone living alone, you seem to in my perception, you're always around folks.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Well, I I put myself in situations where there are I often go to things where I know people. And I put myself in a lot of situations where I don't know people, but I I'm I'm active. I'm, you know, I see a lot of theater. I go to take workshops, I try to get out to interesting things. Tonight I'm going to the Bean Runner Cafe in my town because they have an artist salon the first Tuesday of every month. And tonight is kind of a swap of stuff if you have like, you know, art supplies or jewelry, anything that you want to get rid of that another artist might be able to use, bring it, take stuff, leave stuff. And there's also a presentation about some kind of arts funding. And I've gotten to know some people who are regulars there. So I go see my regul my new friends.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

That sounds so cool. Hillary, as you think about being 69 and and sort of over the span of your life and looking forward, would there be any advice if you could pick out a niner group, someone who's nine, nineteen, twenty-nine, seventy-nine, eighty-nine, ninety-nine, you what group would that be? And and what advice might you want to share with them?

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Well, I think I want to share with every nine that the next day decade is bound to be good. It's not going to be worse. Things are going to be better because you just you've lived longer and you're wiser. You understand the world and yourself better. And you worry less and less as the years go on. Just be be true to yourself and what you want and what you need. I feel very lucky in my life. I have a good career. I don't have the career I thought I'd have. I thought I was gonna be a stage actor and stage screen, stage and screen, not clown festivals. But um just don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to explore, don't be afraid to ask. Because everybody wants I think everybody wants you to be wonderful and you to be good and until you prove them wrong. You walk into a new place and you're a you're you're a a new interesting person to meet. And um we all have a lot to offer. Every individual human being is such an intensely complicated, complex thing to be open to the world. And I think to 19-year-olds or 29-year-olds coming to New York who want to be an actor, especially 19-year-olds, I would say. 29, well, even 29. I came to New York at 31, actually, or 30. As far as career, find the people whose work you admire and go attach yourself to them in some way. Take them out for coffee and ask them questions. You know, offer them. Ask if you can take them out. Or if there's a theater company, go and offer your services. Say, hey, I love your work. I'll do anything you want. Do you want me to sweep the floor? Do you want me to make the coffee? You know, I'll seat people, whatever you need, seek them out. I didn't do that when I came here, really. Yeah. So I would give that advice.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

You know, I as you talk about, you know, not being that actor that you originally had wanted to be, one of my favorite pieces that I've seen you do um is the the the very serious actor or the what's it called?

SPEAKER_00 27:18

The Shakespeare. Um she's the classically trained actress. And I come out dressed up, maybe a little too fancy for Portia from Julius Caesar. And I begin my monologue in total seriousness. The audience is already laughing at me at times, depends on what's happened before. But um, I begin the monologue, and I'm I'm pretty good with Shakespeare. But as I as I'm going through the monologue, the heel on my shoe breaks right off. And so I'm walking crooked, so I need to fix it, or I want another pair. Somebody gives me tape and I get problems with the tape, and then I have I get it fixed again and I keep going, and then I breaks again and I get glue and I get high and I get sticky, but I persevere and I do everything I can to maintain my dignity and finish that monologue. Such a scene is kind of a through line.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

That's a through line.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Okay. It's kind of a through line. I have a lot of my characters are kind of high status, and things go wrong in different ways, but I carry on. I carry on with optimism and I succeed in one way or another. Which is clown. Yeah. Yeah, which is really it's the Shakespeare number that finally made me realize oh, I am a clown. Right. I'm not wearing a bowler and a red nose and suspenders like all the male clowns did back then when I was starting, because I started this years ago before it became such a popular thing again in New York. New York is like crazy with clowns. LA too. But back then, yeah, there weren't that many role models. There were women. And yeah, I I wasn't I wasn't that. I mean, I worked as a clown. I had a cute little clown suit, little fat suit, or I was with the Buckfield Leather and Lather Traveling Variety show up in Buck out of Buckfield, Maine with Benny Real. And we were wearing pants and suspenders and, you know, kind of doing an old-time vaudeville show. But I finally discovered what I was as a clown. I guess it's kind of like growing older too. You know, people say you have to really know yourself to be a clown. And I thought, well, what does that mean? I know myself. I lived with myself, I was born with myself. And eventually I know better. But I didn't know better. I didn't know myself. You know, you you learn what does it mean? You have to know yourself. Well, you have to put yourself in a lot of different situations and and find out how you react to them. What's my reaction to the world? And until you put your your some thought and focus on that, it's much more generic. But when you start focusing on it, who you are, what you want, where you're going, it you learn more about what yourself who who you are. And I think that's what happens as you grow older too. I remember we try to fit into something when we're younger. Yeah. I don't need to fit into anything anymore.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

And you, you know, you're talking about when you were starting your work as a clown, there were not many women role models at all. And so how to fit into something that you don't have those role models. And then as I look back, I mean you created that. You created that space, and how many hundreds, if not thousands, of people now look up to you as a a female clown role model who has totally shaped and reshaped the clown world as we know it. It's huge.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

There's a few others out there besides me. But yeah, I have. I I guess I've kind of been part of that.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Yeah. No, there you're a very small few others, and and such an amazing group. And I'm lucky to know a small handful of those folks. Um, and it's it's amazing, it's really profound. You know, I think about my first clown teacher was a male, because a lot of them were Ronlin, and and he told me that too. He said, Tim, you're you're kind of funny. Like, do other types of theater because you need to know yourself better. You're too young. And these were his words, you're too young to be a clown. And I was so frustrated and angry, and he was so right. Yeah, so right. That's such a tough lesson.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Ronlin, Ronlin is such a is such a beautiful teacher and infuriating infuriating as well. Now, I knew him before he went to Del Arte. He came to Boston for a week in 86 and we did a workshop, and he wasn't nearly the kind of confrontational teacher that he became, although we were only doing, you know, we were doing a week. We weren't in school with him for a year. So it's a very different approach as well.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Yeah. He was a tough teacher. I I'm still learning lessons that didn't make sense. I guess I was there in 2001. And now in 2026, I'm like, oh, that's what he meant. Oh, all right. Thanks for that lesson. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Yeah. Which is, I'm sure, the work that you have done that you don't even know you're doing as people have these aha moments of like, oh yeah, Hillary showed that to me in a workshop. Hillary taught that now it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

Yeah. Yeah. You you've put it out there. It's it's amazing. Hillary, one last question.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

As you think about where you are today in this moment of 69-ness in your life and all that you've seen and experienced and all you hope for moving forward, what would you say is the most important thing? What matters the most to you?

SPEAKER_00 32:22

I think to still be able to do what I love to do and to be able to share that with people, and also just to have dinner parties and hang out with my friends. We're playing pickleball tomorrow. We really don't know how to play very well. But we're getting back out there. Kind of equal parts, sharing really good time with people and doing work that I love doing. And I don't see, you know, I I I joke sometimes that I don't want to work so hard that all I want to do is have dinner parties, but it's not true. I love working hard. And I don't see myself um retiring. I couldn't even think of the word. I don't see myself retiring.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Well, when you're ready to take a little break and want to have a dinner party, come visit me in Atlanta. We'll have a big dinner party down here. We'd love to invite you over. Hilary, this has been a delight. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And uh best wishes on your new show. I cannot wait to meet Sylvia. Yes, thanks so much. Hilary, it was such a treat to talk with you. This episode is dropping right before your 70th birthday, so happy birthday, my friend. Y'all, thanks for joining us at the Niners Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Cunningham. If you want to learn more about Hilary Chaplin, you can follow her at www.hilarychaplin.com. There you can learn about her upcoming shows. You can meet Sylvia when her new show is released, and you can learn about her password as well. Next episode, we will learn from another clown and another clown mentor and teacher of mine, Moshe. Thank you all so much for joining. See you next time. And a special thanks to Jen Cornell for our intro and outro music. You can learn more about Jen Cornell at gincello.com.