.png)
OnlyKads Pod
Four Korean adoptees. Real talk. Big laughs. OnlyKads is an honest space where finding your way doesn't mean finding it alone. Tune in for authentic stories and connection.
OnlyKads Pod
Banh Mi and the Muffin People
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
On the 8th episode of the Only KADs Podcast, Nate, Jenna, Claire, and April talk about world traveling… and have one of their most controversial discussions! Tune in for a preview on Nate and April’s 2026 trips to Korea, and listen to Claire stir the pot with Jenna on a heated topic. The gang discusses “feeling” Korean or Asian in different parts of the continent and begin to get to know each other with some hard-hitting questions at the end.
WRITE IN with YOUR thoughts on Banh Mi… plus your questions or comments for the crew and you might hear your message on the next episode: onlykadspod@gmail.com
Terminology and Notes:
KAD - Korean Adoptee
KAAN - Korean American Adoptee Adoptive Family Network
Note: Due to some suggestive, crude language, and mature topics, listener discretion is advised. In other words, don’t have us playing in the car with your little DoKADs’ ears in close proximity! (DoKAD: Descendant of a Korean Adoptee)
Dropping at midnight EST on the first Wednesday of each month, check out the Only KADs Podcast available on your favorite streaming platform.
Questions? Comments? Have a topic you'd like to be discussed on Only KADs? Send us an email at onlykadspod@gmail.com.
For more fun:
Connect with Claire Magenheimer on Instagram @claire_magenheimer and The Empowered Adoptee Podcast with Laurie Vogler on your favorite podcast platform
Explore with Jenna Lee Kim @mayor.jenna.explores on Instagram and Facebook. Read about her experiences as an American KAD living in Korea by subscribing to her newsletter or listening on Exploring with Jenna Lee Kim on Spotify
Check out Nate Choi at @color_shift_tra on Instagram, follow his podcast: Color Shift: Transracial Adoptees anywhere you listen to podcasts, and follow his journey on his blog
Follow April Williamson on Instagram @deepsouthkorean and check out her website for links to some seriously excellent merch, her TikTok, YouTube channel and Podcast
Title: Good for the Ghost - Alge
Genre and Mood: R&B & Soul + Calm
License: You're free to use this song and monetize your videos.
Music provided by LoverThisMusic
Creative Commons - Attribution 3.0 Unported
Video Link: https://youtu.be/omo6i8ZwpAM?si=gURxw7QJoODC1Q2L
Welcome.
SPEAKER_03It's your friends. April, Jenna, Claire, and Nate.
SPEAKER_00This is the Only Cats Podcast. We're glad you're here. Let's get to it.
SPEAKER_05It sounds like you guys have a lot to share because you guys just saw each other and a little little getaway, little girl getaway. Yeah, well, you did. It wasn't just girls.
SPEAKER_03Sorry, Aaron, if you're watching this. Aaron's one of the girls. He knows that. Aaron knows he's one of the girls. We're the muffin council, is what we've heard. Yes. We've got nicknames. And muffin lips.
SPEAKER_01Jeddays muffin lips.
SPEAKER_05It's a long story, guys. We'll tell you that one. Do you know the muffin man?
SPEAKER_00Aaron the Muffin Man, if you've got muffins, but I'm so confused.
SPEAKER_01Muffin man. We all have a body part. Muffin body part.
SPEAKER_03Yes, it's a long story, but we do have a council. It's the three of us. Not everyone can join. Like April, if you come over to Vietnam and we all travel together, the three of us will have to decide which muffin body part you get to be and if we are going to include you in the muffin, the muffin kids.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03We'll see.
SPEAKER_01I I think April's body part would be legs. She would be muffin legs. She does have great legs.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, she does. Well, we have to ask her in the yummy thing.
SPEAKER_00So, like like the muffin part is the yummy part. Is this is this what we're going where we're going with this?
SPEAKER_02Whatever you think, Nate. However, you choose to define it. Yes.
SPEAKER_03Nate might be muffin head because of his muffin eye. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Guess there are worse things, I suppose.
SPEAKER_03No, but it was amazing, Claire. You live in such a beautiful place. I mean, for real, for real, y'all. I was sitting on the 25th floor, overlooking Denang, in an infinity pool. I mean, the water was like 105 degrees because it was so it was not very refreshing. But um so good. Claire, you live in such a beautiful place.
SPEAKER_01Do you ever do you ever pinch yourself or what? I have to pinch myself, like literally every day, Jenna, because I'm like, I just remember being um, so I I'm from the northern Virginia area, so that's where I came from. Originally Boston. So all cold places. I think you can relate, both of you, cold, cold. And I just remember like I would be sitting in my apartment in the freezing cold, just I didn't want to go outside, and I would look on YouTube and I would just play like videos of the beach or warm places, because I was like always dreaming about being someplace warm. So here I am. I landed in Vietnam, and not only is it warm, they have amazing beaches. The food is to die for, like any kind of food that you want. Jenna, you tried Bond Me for the first time. I know it doesn't compare. Well, I'm gonna ask you about that in just a minute. But the people, I think the people make it the best for me. The people are so lovely. Um, I don't know, I feel like they're like my second family. The people here are just so so warm and um they're so joyful. Like that's what it is. There's like um, you know, like sometimes you go and like everyone from where I was from in Northern Virginia, DC area, everyone's just stressed the fuck out, and they're just like soulless. And and you go to like um places and I feel that in like a collective. And and I come to Vietnam and everyone is happy, they're loving, they're they look out for each other, and so that's that's the best part for me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there's a bit there's a busyness in the United States that people really take a pride in. I'm so busy with so much going on with the kids and the work and all of the things. And both now, and I know they're very different countries, but both now in Thailand last year and Vietnam this year, first of all, there is a hospitality, especially in Thailand and looking out for each other thing that you really feel. And I feel it in Korea too. Like Korea is so safe. I can leave my kids anywhere. I know that there's gonna be an Ajama who's gonna, I'm gonna come back from the bathroom, and there's gonna be an Ajama there with toys and treats for my kids, and I'm not even worried about it. There is like watching a whole family, April and Nate, a whole family on a motorbike. I'm talking mother with the family of five arms. Yeah, there could be, and there's five of them: mom, dad, mother with the baby in their in her arms, two toddlers. Sometimes they they rig up a little thing where the toddler can kind of like stand, because they can't, you know, he or she can't sit on the seat, so they rig up a little thing so we can like stand on the motorbike, and they're just like going along, you know, right next to you, and you're like waving to the kid. And meanwhile, being on the back of a motorbike, I saw Claire's reels and stuff before going over, and I thought, oh no, oh hell no, I'm not getting, I'm gonna, I my frontal lobe is too developed to get on the back of a motorbike. But Aaron was just like, just do it, get on it, get on the grab, just do it, just sit on there. The helmet is just decoration sometimes, but just do it. And it took off, and of course, Aaron was, I was like, what do I do with my hands? Yeah, he's Aaron's like, oh yeah, but you know, put them around the waist of the driver, or you know, you can which was which was he was punking me, guys. You don't, you're not really supposed to touch the driver, but and I'm there like with my hands on the driver's shoulders. And afterwards, Aaron was like, Did he ask for your number? And I was like, You're such a jerk, muffin man. So then I'm watching everyone else's we're flying down the road, and I put my hand, I'm like, oh, everyone else has their hands like on the back of the seat, they're not like touching the driver. Okay, Aaron, thank you very much. But anyway, so it's the most exhilarating feeling flying over the dragon bridge at night with all the lights and the river and the wind in your hair. And I just thought, oh, if if two or three-year-old three years ago, Jenna, could just see what's going on right now, and I could go back and tell her everything's gonna be okay. There's two things I want to say. The first of all, that I can travel anywhere in the world at this point, like really. I even found out about a cat in Antarctica the other day, guys.
SPEAKER_04Whoa.
SPEAKER_03Cat in Antarctica. If you want to go to if you want to go and I can meet up with a Korean adoptee, and it's no big deal. I mean, Claire and Erin happened to be some of my closest friends, but like I think I could go anywhere, and we just had a blast together.
SPEAKER_01We just had a blast, and it was so much fun. Tell us about your first Bon Mi experience. We popped a cherry.
SPEAKER_02Are we gonna go there, Claire? Claire! Yes, I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Our 12 listeners, eight of them are gonna stop liking me.
SPEAKER_05There's already enough bad blood between Korea and Southeast Asians. Do we really want to contribute to that?
SPEAKER_03Listen, I I just wanna I'm gonna use I statements. First of all, let's just back up. Does everybody know what bon me is? Yes, can someone describe it? April, do you want to describe your understanding of a bon me? Well, I would love to.
SPEAKER_05Please a beautifully baked, fresh loaf of bread, essentially, like a French roll, if you will. A little crispy on the outside, soft and fluffy on the inside, right? It's good bread. And that's I'm told key. There's pâté. There's your choice of other meats. You can get like chicken. I think what pork is a real popular one. Um, and then all the vegetable cilantro, and then you get like your pickled veggies of like carrots and daikon and and all that, which gives supposed to give it just like a little, you know, thing, thing, yes. And on paper, it has all the things, right? Like you have a little crunch, you got a little chew, you got some veg and some meat, the gang's all here.
SPEAKER_03Yes, Nate. Doesn't that sound delightful? Wouldn't you just want to put your mouth around that?
SPEAKER_00And it sounds like an American hoagie or sub or sandwich, whatever you want to call it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yes. It does, doesn't it? But no, no. Not pretzel bun.
SPEAKER_03Although those are delicious, those are good, though. Those are very good. Pretzel buns.
SPEAKER_05But and I'm gonna have to take Jenna's side on her assessment of this because I will just say, for me, there is a lot going on, and yes, it is nice when the gang is all here, but sometimes you know, three's crowd, and you got like six people on that boat, and it's too tiny, and and there's just a lot, there's a lot going on, and there's just too much for me, and that's saying a lot.
SPEAKER_03I I agree.
SPEAKER_00I'm from Pittsburgh though, so like we're used, we put fries and we put coleslaw sandwiches. Yes, so like I'm like more than merrier, like let's have a party in my mind.
SPEAKER_03Anna, sorry, that's not I agree with April, but I'm leaning more towards Nate, and this I think is Northeast sandwich roots. I don't want to get into terminology and whether a hoagie or a sub or a po'boy, whatever. Listen. Grinder, some grinder. Some areas of the United States are known for one thing, some areas of the United States are known for another. Doesn't mean the rest of the United States and the world can't try it. But I didn't understand how much of a very particular sandwich, we'll just call it a sandwich snob I was until I got to Korea and just couldn't find a dang sandwich. Folks, you got your bread, you got your fillings. That is a sandwich, yes, by definition. But man, I got I got opinions. And the ban me, as April described, perfect description, by the way. It sounds like it should be everything you want in your mouth: the crunch, the chew, the pickled vegetables, adding a brightness, a little bit of acidity, which I have to have in every meal. You got your onions, and God, I love anything with cilantro and any kind of filling. And so I was really thinking about it, Jenna. Like, this should be your dream boat. What is going on? For me, the bread at each individual part is so good. The bread is amazing, but for me, that bread that ain't sandwich bread, friends. I just I don't know how to say it. It is so dry. This sandwich is like eating a cotton ball in your mouth with flaky bits that fall to the ground as you're eating it. And so I'm like trying to have an experience, and the flaky French bread, which is delicious, is falling all over the place. And the first bite is not great because it's the it's the nubby end where there's no filling, whereas when you're a crouton, is this like a giant crouton? No, it's not bread. No, the bread is delightful. But you know what's a French bread? French baguette. It's a baguette. French bread needs to find its place. French bread, listen, buttered and toasted as a dinner accompanying sliced and sliced.
SPEAKER_01That's what they do, Jenna. You should have gotten the kind of breakfast that they have the separate. They have like sausage and eggs and all the things on a plate. They serve you the bon mi on the side to dip it, and it's all disassembled. What is that called when it's disassembled? Deconstructed. Deconstructed. But I will say there are many, many people that spend$2,000 to fly to Vietnam just to have$2 bon mies. I believe something. I think they don't know what a good sandwich is.
SPEAKER_03Oh, but I also think Yeah, the bread makes the sandwich.
SPEAKER_00So if it's not good bread, then no, it is good bread.
SPEAKER_03It's just not sandwich bread, is my is my is my whole argument. A hoagie has all of those components, but is soft and filled, and every bite, including the end, is filled with thinly sliced prosciutto, tangy hams, Genoa salami, which adds a little umami. You've got crunchy lettuce, a tiny bit of red onion, a little oregano, some vinegar, sharp provolone, filled to the gills with this sandwich. And like Nate said, some some I don't know how you feel about French fries on a sandwich, but like we fill our sandwiches and we're not getting it everywhere as and also like you don't want it so filled that when you take a bite, it all shoots out the end of the bread. There needs to be structural integrity to the bread, yes, on me, great structural integrity, but man, that shit, like I'm I I wanted the flavor to be so much more for what April described. Like that pickled vegetable should have been pow, pow, pow. And there it should have, it should have been like, you know, you know, wonderful like moisture inside to like really give it some put. I'm sorry, I just I tried two. Our friend Aaron was really feeling the pressure. He tried one, he's like, This this isn't it. We'll find another one. And then Claire was like, I got one, and that was that one was better than the first one I tried.
SPEAKER_01This is my favorite spot. I think now you're cut off from Bonnie, Jenna.
SPEAKER_03I just listened to Vietnam, stick to the rice cakes, stick to the chicken with the lemongrass and the garlic, marinated for a day with all of the sauces and the lime and the that you do that great.
SPEAKER_00So wait, Jenna, if you were to make an Americanized Philly style Pennsylvania Bomb Me, what what would you what would you do? What like if you take the baguette off out of it and replace it with what? What are you replacing the bread with?
SPEAKER_03You can't because the whole Bon Me thing is the French bread, which again is delicious, just not for a sandwich, in my opinion. I think if you made a Philadelphia hoagie one, it would be great. You've got your pork in there, you'd have your pickled vegetables, you had your cilantro, some vinegar, and all that and all that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00So if we took all the insides and put it on a filly roll and then put some cheese whiz on it, yeah, then we're good.
SPEAKER_05Maybe honestly, I think if you because that don't they like put butter on it too? There's like there so yeah, and I also don't like pate.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's butter.
SPEAKER_05My mouth's water. Um, so and I think that threw me off. Now, once I took the pate off, that I I appreciated it much more. I think I'll replace the pate with other meat because it's still got a lot in it.
SPEAKER_00It it it was just and like is the pate supposed to be like a sauce because pate is like creamy to a degree, like texturally, it's creamy soften the bread.
SPEAKER_05It's soft on the inside, it's just there's a nice crusty outer shell on the f on the French loaf. So when you bite into it, that golden brown just flakes off a little bit in paces.
SPEAKER_03So when you look down, it's just you're wearing it. Eating is such an experiential thing for me, too. Like, I have the same opinions about a good hamburger. I don't want it so big I can't get my mouth and lips around it either. Even I don't care how good it tastes. I mean, I'd like to differ. Okay. So I think some of it, I understand audience.
SPEAKER_00You're still talking about hamburgers.
SPEAKER_03I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00Like what is that question?
SPEAKER_03Well, don't call me muffin lips for nothing, I just, I just listen, for everyone who's mad at me, including our friend Sonny, I know this is a personal thing. That's why I said I'm using I statements. I have a very particular view about what a sandwich is. When I was with my significant other in Philadelphia, and uh he saw me eat a real Italian hoagie right, like right side up outside of Chinatown, and we and he saw me take a bite of this thing, and he I didn't realize it, but I'm like talking to myself. I'm I'm narrating my thoughts as he's watching me. It's like our first date. Like, well, I don't know if there's enough lettuce on it, and I'm looking at it, he's like watching me do this. And I took a bite and had just a moment, and he was just like, Jenna, I just I don't know that I've ever seen you react that way with anything that I've ever done. But I'm so glad. It haunts him to this day. I uh it, you know, there's nothing like a good sandwich. So I wanted I wanted the Bonnie to be even close to that.
unknownAnd it just wasn't.
SPEAKER_03Especially with all the hype. Especially with all the hype. Oh, wait till you get to Vietnam. And I'm like, I'm sorry, but I understand the French colony part, but I'm not going to Southeast Asia for a sandwich, guys. Just like I'm not going to Nebraska for New York style pizza. It's just not gonna happen. What did you think of the pho? Oh god, Claire, you're really gonna, I'm gonna have people chasing me with pitchfork. No, Jenna, no. Listen, no, this is this is a this is really I'm not an I am not a noodle juice.
SPEAKER_00If you ever try to go back, you're not gonna be allowed in this country.
SPEAKER_03I I was gonna talk this episode about how I felt so Southeast Asian and my poor.
SPEAKER_01I I think you've just been very westernized, Jenna. There's nothing wrong with that. Just westernized and just don't appreciate it's French.
SPEAKER_03French Bon Mi is a is a is a collaboration of cultures. Do you think Vietnamese are eating ban mi if it were not for French colonization? I mean, we could look at the history.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it is French colonization. Okay, what did you enjoy the most that you ate? What did you eat that you actually did like?
SPEAKER_03Well, Claire and Aaron and I took a cooking class, which was so delightful. We had we had the the Asian mummy that was strict in yelling at us that we never had. And you know, it was we were with were they Norwegian? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had this Norwegian group, delightful two older couples that were uh equally thrown off every time our teacher was like, Thank you, chef, thank you, chef, and everybody got in line with our little pans and setting things on fire and cutting things correctly and you know, slicing off our fingers with the shredders and all the stuff. But we made this crispy rice milk pancake in a pan with lots of oil, and you get it real crispy. You throw some pork and some shrimp in with some bean sprouts, and then a dipping sauce. The dipping sauce, guys. Oh, that's like crack. It was so good. Vietnamese flavors are so good again with the tang and the and the heat and the you know the peppers and the fish sauce with a little umami and you've got the garlic, anything with lemongrass, cilantro, lime, that's my jam.
SPEAKER_00So what if you dip the bomb in that dipping sauce?
SPEAKER_03Maybe we can do that. Yeah, maybe that would help.
SPEAKER_00I'm trying to help you out here, like solution like we did here.
SPEAKER_03That could be it. Yes, we had a chicken that was sauteed in that, the the pancake I just mentioned, and then we made these these spring rolls where you know we rolled them with the filling, and you know, we've got the different the the cucumber and the carrot and all the filling inside, and you and you roll it up, and you're slowly turning it over in your oiled pan so they're nice and crispy. And even though it's fried, it's not it doesn't feel real heavy. And again, the dipping sauce uh just delightful with a nice cold, very light beer. You know, nothing's heavy in Vietnam. It's like 110 degrees. You can't be drinking a porter, right? Delightful, and a summer roll, and the meat on the skewers, guys. I love Vietnamese food, just not a sandwich in Vietnam. I just want that to be clear. I've gone on too long. I'm sorry. Do other people love uh that's my favorite part of traveling. Like, sure, we got there. Oh my gosh, we got there and I got on a video chat, and April or somebody was like, What do you see? I'm like, we're by this beautiful beach. Oh my gosh, it's the most gorgeous big, long, wide, beautiful beach. I said, Well, it's not as nice as the beach that I live next to. And I said to Mike, I was like, I had to stop talking because like I understood what a brat I sounded like. Like, April lives in Cleveland, and I'm here talking about the beach I live next to compared to the beach Claire lives next to.
SPEAKER_05I think I think it was snowing that day. You have a lake or something near you, right? You got some water? I do. And it's just about ready to turn into a beach. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Maybe you got some water near you? Pittsburgh? There's a river.
SPEAKER_00You have dirty rivers that uh flow into one another to create a larger dirty river. That's that's what we have.
SPEAKER_05That you don't want to be able to do it.
SPEAKER_00You do yeah, you do not want to swim in the rivers that flow into the other dirty river. It's not not recommended. You may come out with a couple eyes, you know, that type of thing, an extra limb growing out somewhere. Or down an eye. You know, there are other things in the river a little, you know, haunt.
SPEAKER_05Could could you come out with superpowers though?
SPEAKER_00And I don't know that it's worth the risk.
SPEAKER_03Is there a place where what was the first place? And it could have been, you know, crossing the border into another state and seeing something or tasting something. Do you have a moment from childhood or young adulthood or adulthood where you had your kind of first wow, this other place or thing I'm experiencing that is so different or open my world from where I grew up? Like kind of what was what do you guys think?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for me, it was when I went down to the Virgin Islands and went to St. Thomas and St. John for the first time. Those beaches, like wow. Like I just, because I grew up, we had a little pond. It was a pond and people could swim. I didn't think it was safe. I don't think that anyone grew extra limbs. You couldn't see shit. It was just all dark and murky. And then you get to this amazing beach, and like the water is just crystal clear, and it's just like the beautiful white sand beaches and palm trees everywhere. That was for me, it was like wow. Like that's how I knew I had to travel, I had to get out of get out, just get out. How old were you? Um, we went a few times growing up, so I probably was like 10, maybe when we when I first went, maybe 12.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that is an age something because you're just old enough. Like my kids, sometimes I show them amazing things, but it's even though they're seeing it for the first time and they should be amazed, they don't have enough life experience to understand that it's cool. It's a very weird balance, but 10 is about a good age. You've lived just long enough to go, oh, this is not the pond outside of me.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I mean, I grew up in BFE, so like everything seemed pretty impressive um compared to where I grew up. And my people were not big travelers. If you are from West Virginia, especially southern West Virginia, really any small, small town, then you can probably relate to the fact that your people just don't leave your area very often. I was the first person in my family to travel outside of the country. I think I was 20 the first time I went, and it was unheard of in my small town. I I'll never forget the amount of adult people like were completely surprised, terrified. They just knew I was going to be taken. They they tried to talk me out of it. I was fine. I went to Greece by myself for like 10 days, two weeks, something like that. Then went to Mexico for a couple weeks by myself. I did a lot of solo traveling because at that age there was nobody in my hometown who would travel outside of the country.
SPEAKER_03Well, wait, what gave you the gumption or the courage? You know, sometimes when no one else is doing it, you fall into that.
SPEAKER_05So what gave you the I I think it's the same thing that the otherness that I always felt like the same thing that made me always aware that I was Asian and that I was different than everybody. And it was very much that Reba McIntyre song, like, is there life out there? So I I'm just I was just like, I it has to be better somewhere. There has to be more than this. There has to be. This cannot be it all. And I refuse to believe that it is like this that everybody thinks that is. It was just my own innate desperation to get away. I was prepared to like be an expat. I talk to Claire all the time about how I'm moving to Vietnam. Every time you post a video and I see it, I'm just like, could I could I move to Vietnam? Yes. Yes, girl. Yes.
SPEAKER_03I think I'm moving to Vietnam. Girl, eight dollar gel manicures. And it's the best manicure I've ever had.
SPEAKER_01I believe it. Um, and twelve dollar massages, I go like every other day. Oh amazing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Nate, what about you? Where have you been that you or or food you've tried or things that just opened your world?
SPEAKER_00Um, I think I'll like kind of go in a little bit of a different direction. Like me growing up, I was involved in a church a lot. And so I ended up going on like mission trips during the summer. And so, like, uh like I would go to the South Carolina to help with like hurricane recovery, like, you know, help rebuild some things. Um, and then I've I've done multiple trips to uh Mexico to build like houses and um things like that. Like we were kind of the the child care for one of the like it's like you know, uh dentists would come in and provide free uh dental care for you know the kids and and and the people in the area. And so um they partnered with a church and we would go down to you know help with that. And so like I think for me that opened my eyes to like this other world of people that needed help, that needed, you know, um assistance and things like that. And so that probably was like very much the building blocks of like just kind of my career path of wanting to work with kids, uh, you know, troubled youth, that type of stuff. Even now I work in you know, child care. Um, I'm in administration, but it's still just kind of all in the same venue and things like that. And so it's yeah, it like to me, like those experiences really opened me up to the fact that like there's stuff beyond this little bubble. Because I, you know, much like a lot of you guys, like you just grow up in this bubble and everybody looks like each other, and you go, you know, you grow up and you're this major and you go to college, and then you come back to your small town and you you know open up a practice and do whatever, and like it's just this cycle that goes on and on, and you have generations, and it's like so going on those trips was like, oh no, like there's an entire world out here that needs help, that needs people to come along and and work and and things like that. That was a large part of it, and then just kind of my own experience. Like, I I was kind of a rare um, I find myself that I'm a bit of a rare uh story in the fact that like when I was adopted, I was actually adopted to a fairly I say diverse, but it was like 75% black, but it was like three or four blocks away from uh the projects, so we're talking like lower income, and then we moved to this all-white town that is like eye to whatever economics, and it's like I that opened my eyes. It's like, oh shit, like there's two different worlds out here, you know, there is where I came from, and that's where I'm at now. And I always had an idea that like there were there were worlds out there, yeah. All those things kind of shaped, you know, my eyes, and then honestly, I had to get the freak out of Pennsylvania, so I moved to Nashville, and like that was a cool experience because my best friend had moved down there, and I was like, I just need to get out of this area and go do something else, and so it was a really easy jump there, and that like helped a lot of things to go somewhere else and live in a bigger city and a bigger area. Yeah, that's those those were my experiences that kind of helped open my eyes that like, oh no, there's like six billion people, we don't all look alike.
SPEAKER_01I think there's something to be said about moving to from an all-white community where I grew up, and then moving to someplace like San Francisco, where it's like over 50% Asian population, and then coming to Korea, Southeast Asia, and everyone's Asian. I mean, and and people are excited to see me. I I think they um over here in Vietnam in Vietnam, they think they know that I'm Korean because they greet me on Yasil. And so I I mean they're like excited to see me. And I can't say that growing up, people were like excited to see an Asian person in an all-white town. It was, um, I mean, it was there's so many times where I was racially discriminated, and like I would go into this candy store with my sister, and the owner, this white guy, he would make us make us stand in the front of the store so he could like watch us because I don't know what he thought, like we were gonna be up to something bad. I don't know, but it was like those kind of experiences where like now I just kind of blend in. It's really nice.
SPEAKER_03Take this with a grain of salt, not like my sandwich commentary, which is very serious. But I I felt I was I was in vacation mode, obviously, when I was in Vietnam. So, you know, I don't have to work and I'm carefree and all the things, but I just felt so free there. You know, I had this moment that sounds very cliche, but I was in a shop and um I turned around and I saw a woman, and it took me a solid two seconds before I realized it was me, because it was a big mirror. And I couldn't figure out why I didn't recognize I didn't recognize myself, but it's because I had my hair all swept up in a bun because you're 10 degrees cooler if your hair's on on your neck, you know, and I had my big earrings on, and because I'm not taking care of kids in Vietnam, I had time to put on makeup and and I'm wearing this jumpsuit that's you know, it's spaghetti strap, my shoulders are bare, it's like a long jumpsuit that kind of is flowy and looks like a dress. And and I yeah, I I was trying to think later, like, why did I literally not recognize myself? I just had this, you know, how when do I feel like me? When do I really feel like myself? And in Korea, when I'm in Korea, I just I just know that I feel lying beneath my skin all the time pressure to look Korean. In Korea, your hair is straight unless it is particularly curly and specifically wavy and permed, but then you can tell that that's the look, right? Everyone's got this straight hair and it's never up. I mean, once in a while you see a fancy banana clip, but you're not seeing messy mom bun in Korea. It's just not happening. You see, you walk around April and Nate when you get here, and you see a woman with a messy mom bun, she's American. And there's, you know, that everyone's covered. There's this very specific Korean style where things are big and shoulder pads and flowy with a tucked-in shirt at your very thin waist with wide leg pants or a skirt, and everything is very monotone and covered and chic and flowy. And I I like that style. I like clothes, so I kind of got into the fashion when I got over here. You're not walking around with a spaghetti strap jumpsuit in Korea with no bra.
SPEAKER_01It's not happening. I made the mistake. Well, I was in Seoul and I was walking around and I had a like a um a sundress with my shoulders bare. And I think I posted a picture on Facebook, and people are like, oh I mean it's not like I didn't know.
SPEAKER_03Let me be clear. From being over here, I don't think it's a modesty thing. It's a fashion thing. And it's also uh, we are so afraid of the sun. So people just don't, you know, I no one's gonna look at you and go, oh, she's showing her shoulders. It's not that kind of culture. You just stick out because nobody is doing it. And so, like, because I want to fit in over here and because I don't want to be in yet another place where I have to explain myself. I had to explain myself all growing up, I have to explain myself all grow over here. And in Vietnam and Thailand, I can just be one of one of the many Asians that's there and wear whatever I want and be in the glorious heat and eat the delicious lemongrass, garlic chicken, and the crispy rice cakes, and just be just be me without having to think about it with any kind of context or pretext or anything. And it felt really good. Um, and I guess this is my next question for everybody. You know, where do you feel like you are not masking in like really truly you? And how do you, Nate and April, do you think you'll feel when you get to Korea? Have you thought about any of that? I mean, this is a very it's a lot, it's philosophical in some ways because I don't know how you would define how you feel Korean or white or American or Vietnamese. I don't know what that means.
SPEAKER_05So for me, um, I feel like it's a spectrum, like with most things, and it depends on the day, right? So, like I as I started to understand Korean culture through food, I realized there were a lot more similarities between Korean food and the Appalachian food that I grew up on. Um, and the thing that made me chuckle the most was I made, I had just learned about ponchon, and I had made pinto beans, which, you know, most people just think pinto beans and cornbread, but the way I was raised in eating pinto beans, it was like you you had ponchon. We didn't call it that, but you had sauerkraut and either a Polish sausage cut up in it or weenies, and then um some sort of hash of sorts and a potato fried up, and then there were like banana peppers for a little bit of vinegar and spice and tang. And then there was always like Texas peat hot sauce on the table. And so like I made all this, and I had like my bowl of pinto beans, my cornbread, and all these little dishes of all the little things that I had, and I looked down to take a picture, I was like, it's appalachine pot on. I love that. And so, like that honestly gave me a lot of permission that I did not anticipate having. And I hope that I can spread that to a lot of people by telling them this story is that it's all relative and subjective, honestly. I'm also, you know, a bigger person. I'm not a slender person. I'm working on that like one of my motivations, other than Claire. Um, because when I met Claire and she told me her story of getting her fitness together for uh her 40s, I was like, oh, there's hope, and that's my goal. But also when I knew I was coming to Korea, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I don't know what you're doing right now is um you're killing it, April. I am obsessed with those legs again.
SPEAKER_05Muffin legs. Muffin legs, but yeah, I can't come to Korea as big as I was last year because they are already going to call me big. I don't need them to call me fat too. So not that it would hurt my feelings, but because I'm okay with who I am. But also, like you said, Jenna, like there's you want to feel like you belong a little bit. I at least want to be able to buy a humbok when I go there and squeeze my tits into something.
SPEAKER_03You will. Nate, do you think you're gonna walk around and notice that you're with among among us? Or do you think you it I don't know? It's hard to I know it's hard to extrapolate future things.
SPEAKER_00I think it'll be I think there'll be a couple factors. Like one, like the first week, like we're all gonna be together, like so it's gonna be pretty obvious. Like, oh look, there's a bunch of like oddly dressed Korean people following each other around, right? Because it's gonna be Koreans from like France and Norway and the United States and Australia, so we're all gonna come with our weird in our own national like fashion, right? And so, you know, we're not gonna be monochrome, you know, whatever fitting in, like we're gonna stick out, and it's gonna be like, yeah, it's gonna be like, what where did all of these people come from? And that'll be like that in itself will be its own experience of just like sticking out as a crowd as we migrate from whatever to whatever to whatever we're doing, and then like obviously like language barrier and all that stuff. Uh, and I think I think the true test, if you will, is whenever like Friday, because the the tour itself runs from Monday to Friday, and then Friday it ends, and I'm staying essentially for another week, another like six, seven days, and so like that'll be kind of the real test, if you will. A lot of my clothes are black and gray, so like I feel like I'm okay. Um, might might be okay with that. Um, you know, but even uh guy I'm going with, he's going on the tour as well. He's like, shirts over there, like you're just be expect to be like a 4x or a 5x. And because that's just like at this stage, like if going over there, listen, I'm 5'10, about 215. My understanding is that's like a 5x over in Korea. So uh like, and then like I tried to uh somebody had posted shoes from Korea that looked really awesome. I messaged the person, I was like, hey, do they have 10 and a half? He's like, nope, they stop at 10 with this manufacturer. I was like, dang, he's like, Yeah, and they don't sell half half sizes.
SPEAKER_03Like, you were eating something in Pittsburgh.
SPEAKER_00I mean, yeah, so it's yeah, yeah, it's it's it's it's wild that like it'll be interesting to see, like, not like will I be kind of like April, where I'm just taller and bigger than everybody else, and and things like that, or how how will I feel type of thing? Um, but yeah, uh the true test will be kind of after the tour is over, and we can uh just I can just go, I can just try and blend in as much as possible, see what that feels like, because I've I've never blended in. One of the people I I work with, we're really close friends, we've we've talked a lot, and um, she was like, Have you always been like one of the only people of color, like in all situations? I'm like, Yeah, pretty much. Like, you know, like I've I've always been that way, like you know, and so you're always sticking out, you're always used to sticking out. It's never like you know, the only time that don't stick out is when I'm with you guys, or you know, when we're at con or when we're at a get together, like that type of stuff. And so, and those, let's be honest, we can kind of count on like one hand, right? Um, how many times like we've been to these these type of things, and so it's it's tough. It's uh it'll be it'll I'm sure it will be surreal. I know I've talked to other adoptees that have gone and like they're just there and they're like, Oh shit, I don't stick out, like nobody's looking at me like why is this person here? You're not having to uh justify your existence in that moment, which is something that we all have to do on a consistent basis as an adoptee if you're in the United States. Um, and I will say that there are some exceptions. I know some of the LA cads, LA San Francisco CADs, they're like, Oh yeah, I like kind of grew up in a mostly Asian school and community and stuff like that, and like that's incredible, but like that stops in California, like you get anywhere past California and go to the rest of the United States, and it's yeah, like you you're just gonna stick out like a sore thumb. So um, yeah, I don't know. I'll be hopeful that I can just, you know, just just be. Uh I don't know what like what's the facial hair culture over in Korea? Like, do I need to shave to fit in?
SPEAKER_03Oh, I don't don't shave, don't shave.
SPEAKER_00I don't know what will take you away. That's what I'm asking. Like, is like, is there shape like facial hair culture? Is there not?
SPEAKER_03No one over here really has facial hair, but I don't want you to shave yours because I remember we talked on a previous episode.
SPEAKER_00No, no, if I shave, it may not come back.
SPEAKER_03Like yeah, I don't want that for you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, also. like those dads that shave their faces and then like you look unrecognizable and all your children oh scare the crap out of their kids because they don't get like recognized or like yeah don't don't make us cry cat dad yeah we'll have to call you muffin chin muffin chin yeah I'm trying to imagine yeah I'm sure there's a filter um if you guys are on my Facebook and you want to stock my Facebook I'm sure there's photos of me without any facial hair no honestly kind of like what we were talking about um you know I'm most excited to try and just be a Korean in Korea like can I it's it's almost like a challenge can I pull it off like can I just be a Korean in Korea and nobody know and the the biggest hurdle is just me keeping my mouth closed because clearly I don't speak the language so like how can I navigate this you know what can you know how much can I be a Korean in Korea? That's the goal.
SPEAKER_05April what are you most excited about for your trip over here in the fall well I mean other than hanging out with you and Claire because we've been talking a lot about all the fun all the girl fun I am very fortunate to be able to have a lot of time over there so I think what I'm most excited about is just being able to kind of absorb and explore a little bit I don't have obviously a lot of hopes for reunification. It would be nice but it's not something that like I'm gonna get hung up on for my own reasons. Everybody has their own uh way of dealing with it but I chose to see the humanity in my biological mother and I don't want to be the reason that her life is harder. I would imagine that she probably already has enough bullshit on her plate or has had to deal with enough bullshit in her life and if she feels like she's not ready to include me in it that's for a good reason and I just choose to respect that. Also you know I'm I've had my stomach full on on disappointing mothers I'm good for I'm good on that like I don't need another experience. I'm topped out so I'm really excited to just like meet all of my CAD family like I I feel like if I had gone there was a time when I probably would have wished I would gone when I was younger and I think Nate and I have talked about this when we look at some of the younger adoptees and the resources and kind of the head start that they comparatively have in their life. But also I don't know that it would have been as good as what this trip will be for me because I wouldn't have known you guys. I wouldn't have known a lot of the other cads by proxy who live there I wouldn't know all the things that there is to know to do and and whatever. So I think it it's happened at the right time and it's happened the way it's supposed to but I honestly I was talking about this the other night with the group because Tony had mentioned that he didn't get emotional when he was there and he was like so it's okay if you don't but I think I'm probably gonna get a little bit more sentimental when we're in Vietnam doing the Hajjong loop and all of that stuff just because of that experience itself like when I went to Greece for the first time it was very emotional for me to witness it all like you're just sitting there in this random place that you brought yourself to and you realize how small you are in the big scheme of things and it kind of makes all of the the negative things in your life and the overwhelming challenges that you foresee kind of feel irrelevant and for me it made it feel like you know what let's just do it anyway let's let's see where this goes because so what I fell and fall on my face all right look where I am who gives a fuck like I feel that April.
SPEAKER_01Yeah and right before my 40th like and to be able to share that with all of you guys too like I know a lot of you guys are going to be able there hopefully or at least nearby even if you don't go on the lube itself I'm not crazy I'll be there eating um lemongrash chicken waiting not on the other side not bon me with a cocktail I don't know I don't know I thought we are friends Jenna I eat bon mi every day like seriously it is my staple I I order one every day with a um with a smoothie or um a latte and it's freaking delicious. I love it. But April just something that you said brought me up like it I really resonate with that feeling of being in a beautiful place in nature. Like I I go to the beach almost every day and I'm not like an emotional person. Like Lori always kids me how she's always crying on the podcast and I never cry I mean I get like you know I have a lot of empathy and I get sentimental but I don't cry like normally like just um I mean I cry at sad movies and um you know big things in my life I cried out like an ocean full of tears my whole lifetime. So now I'm kind of like past it. But when I go to the ocean when I go to the beach I cry like it's just there's something about being in nature I think it it helps me to somatically process my emotions and I get out of my thinking brain and I get into my body more and it just makes me feel more emotional. So I get that um and then there's also something to be said about like the food and the culture about coming back to it I think that also helps us to somatically process. So just being in Korea with the familiar smells and foods and that also might bring out something.
SPEAKER_03There's no way to anticipate what it is the small moment that there's no way to guess is going to just consume your senses. I mean it it continues to happen to me and it's always small moments of I think oh I'm gonna do this thing with my birth family I'm gonna go here and I'm gonna have this transformative come to myself moment and that's just not how it is it's the things that are totally unexpected daily life things that happen that I'm like that that start to really consume you. And I love what you said April I have some friends who've been over here a bunch of times and they love it and they travel together and they go on all the tours and I finally had to say to a couple of them stop going on the tours and getting on a tour bus with 80 other adoptees and their families and going to 15 things a day. Get over here you know Korea now come sit on a bench come sit on a beach come just wander and get lost there's you can't it's impossible to get lost here because you got a phone and data and if you get lost you just go oh here's where I am and just be here you know just experience it here as Korea just like and and and watch people down the little alleys away from the tourist places you know making food and the outdoor kitchens and you know slinging hot fire because they do that in Korea too. And you know just find your that's where I feel most at home when I'm wandering around the back alleys of Dong Day Moon and finding little shops that the locals go to and little restaurants where folks are outside. I mean that that's where I really and and no one's looking at me like why are you here? Um and I feel really comfortable there. And you find a little spot where you can get a$7 entire meal there won't be pinto beans but there will be all the little things that you can try just sitting there and yeah it's that it is the it's just the best. I mean I like doing that in any city but there's something about doing it here and yeah and we'll take care of you April we'll take care of you we'll release you into the wild when we need to and or if you have a question like you're ready now. You're ready blonde haired five foot eight Korean you were you're ready to get out there.
SPEAKER_01I love it. I get lost for hours and hours and hours I don't know what you're talking about Jenna but I have data and those trains are so freaking confusing every time I get on it I go the opposite direction and then I'm like an hour and a half delayed wherever I'm trying to go I'm the it's I mean you'll you'll see you'll find out you'll find out Nate yeah apparently I can't read the maps so we we did have a couple questions too since we were talking about like Korean versus American and how Korean you feel um and I think one that Nate had was about k-drama titles what was that question Nate that you had yeah so if your uh your life as an adoptee were a K drama what would you give the title so your life as a K drama what would you give the title of your life?
SPEAKER_03Go ahead Jenna I know exactly mine would be called K simulation oh okay my whole life has been a simulation computer programming it and having glitches in it sometimes you know like someone got lazy and like well you know and I didn't really I I fell asleep early and just poop boop boop and so we're gonna have Jenna's daughter who's the same age as the Korean niece she will meet have the same name. We'll both be losing things like that happened to me and I'm like I am in the simulation or even meeting Aaron and Claire.
SPEAKER_01I mean I met Aaron and Claire in very different places and then we were all together in Vietnam with our CAD friend Leanne who Aaron and I were hanging out with in Huaheen Thailand which is four hours from Bangkok it's not like it's you know it's very remote and we were all together the year before during spring break there's just a lot of case simulation okay all right I've never seen this show I've never seen it well I saw like half of an episode but the one when life gives you tangerines um I think is based in Jeju right and uh I don't know what the plot is but just from the name it kind of reminds me of like when life gives you lemons and I feel like that's been my life I've just been dealt like this like horrible deck of cards hand of cards and you know you have to make something good come out of it. And I feel like I've done that um kind of like just I don't know I maybe just have like a very positive mindset but I see a lot of people who get so down because of their circumstances their adoption story whatever it is and I don't know I just feel like I like all three of you kind of just made the best of it and there's so many amazing opportunities and beautiful things to look forward to so that would be mine when life gives you want to make you maybe tear up a little bit the next time you go to the beach that title was created of course for an English speaking audience the play on words with the lemons the Korean original title of that show translates into thank you for working hard thank you for pretty much like thank you for doing your best and working hard I love that April what is uh what would your title be um well I I didn't know if we were referring like actual titles so like I came up with my own which was Love Me Not On Me Explain yourself.
SPEAKER_05Um just because what does that mean? Well because I I feel like the common theme um with like my adoption has been just complicated relationships all around just learning how to navigate them which ones are healthy knowing or learning that I had a just a false representation of what things should look like and relationships with myself and and and loving in the wrong places and all of those things so I'm gonna repurpose a title for for my K drama and it's gonna be a minority report um because like just been the minority forever um in just about every situation in life and so yeah it's it would be the minority report be you know just my personal POV of what it's like to be the only person of color what what it's like to be the only you know Asian and a predominantly black company or predominantly white company so like yeah like literally the minority of all of the places that I've been and that would just be the minority report yeah love it I like it we'll have to get these into protection kids oh wait till I tell you about all the other simulations that have happened in my life none of this is simulation I pick yeah I was just picturing Sims like you just constantly running into the wall you know how they do I used to love that game the Sims Sim Farm Sim City something about playing God