PCV: One Little Valve Can Save You Dollars and Headaches

Oil leaks, rough idle, P0171 lean codes, and oil contamination on the air filter can all point to one small, often overlooked component: the PCV valve.

In this episode, I sit down with José Ramirez from LATTC to break down how this inexpensive part can cause surprisingly wide-ranging symptoms—and why it’s frequently missed in diagnosis.

We also discuss how PCV systems vary by vehicle. On lots of cars, especially before 2011, the PCV valve is a simple, replaceable part that’s quick and inexpensive to service. On newer vehicles (often 2010 and up), the PCV system may be integrated into the valve cover assembly, making diagnosis and repair more complex.

Whether you plan to work on your car yourself or just want to better understand what a shop is telling you, this episode will help you recognize common symptoms, understand basic testing methods, and make more informed maintenance decisions.

Certain PCV issues can cause lean conditions and a P0171 code. Know your codes before you bring your car in. Using a basic scanner to get codes and read live data doesn't diagnose the issue, but it gets you in a good starting place. Try this Launch CR529 through my Amazon affiliate code, and you can help support the podcast!

Stay in touch, share your thoughts, recommend your trusted mechanic as a guest, get good tips and find out when episodes drop by subscribing! Email us at goodcarmapodcast@gmail.com and visit the website goodcarmapodcast.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

The content of this podcast is presented for informational purposes, and the perspective and opinions expressed are based on the experiences of the hosts and guests and do not replace doing your own further research or having your car inspected or serviced at a qualified shop. Hi, welcome back to Good Karma Podcast, where I hope to help demystify cars one conversation at a time and provide peace of mind instead of panic when it comes to what's going on under the hood. And today's topic, I think, will do just that. We're going to talk about the PCV valve, a small component that can cause some serious symptoms. And this seems to be a sometimes overlooked part of the car. And I'm going to talk right now with Jose Ramirez I'm back at LATTC, my alma mater, with my dear teacher and mentor. And it's really my dream come true to just be able to sit and ask you questions all the time.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

So thank you so much for being so supportive of the podcast. Appreciate the opportunity to help as well.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

So the PCV valve, and then now it's sort of evolved into a more integrated PCV system, which we can talk about too.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

It stands for a positive crankcase ventilation. And the crankcase, which is the lower part of the engine.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Well, the crankcase is pretty much anywhere oil goes, that's part of the crankcase. So on top of the engine, we've got the valve cover, a rock round cover. There's oil there. So oil comes from the bottom, comes to the top, and that's part of the crankcase. And that's where exactly where the PCV valve, a lot of the engines is located on top of the valve cover.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

And so the crankcase should be ideally operating on a under slight vacuum, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Yes, the PCV is gonna is the one that is hooked up to the intig manifold just to relieve the pressure that's in the crankcase.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

And a normal part of a car operating it is that it will create a positive pressure because of blow by and and the combusted gases that you will see past the piston ring. So a normal part of operation is that it will build uh pressure and it has to be relieved. So the thing with um before we get into how it does it and what happens if it's not relieved, um, this pressure it's always been uh uh an issue to relieve the pressure, but it used to be that it would just go straight into the atmosphere.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Well, we used to vent it into the ground. Um a lot of a lot of older, like you and I, remember that the streets or the roads, highways, there were there was literally a dark stain in the middle of the road. Oh yeah. And uh you could only see just the whether the car was riding on the um on that lane, whether the highway or the I mean or the regular streets, and the middle was really dark. It was really oily because like because of the crankcase was vented literally onto the ground. And if you remember, some of you guys might remember that the motorcycle riders were not supposed to ride on the middle of the road. They were supposed to either on the left or on the right because it was oily.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Oh wow, I do not remember that part.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Yeah, but yeah, so it it was vented, made a mess, and then and bad for the environment. It was bad for yeah, it was bad overall. Just a little bit of background. The PCV valve was invented or installed on cars as an emissions device back in the late 60s. Yeah. Early 70s. That's when every single car produced had to have a PCV valve. And it was a huge improvement for the it was it it and it has become a huge improvement, but it's just a matter of, like you said earlier, a lot of us, a lot of people overlooked that piece.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Yeah, so now it's more of a sealed system, and instead of venting that those gases out of the car to the ground, it's pulled from where the pressure is building back to the intake.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Yep. So we're basically uh again, low by gases. If you guys remember, it's any air and fuel that's going to escape the piston rings. And as the engine is uh moving pretty fast, the pressure increases, and we have to get rid of that pressure.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

So, right, so that leads us to symptoms. Like what happens if there's two different ways, I think maybe more. Uh the PCV can go bad, is one it's stuck closed or clogged, and we'll talk later about if it's stuck open. But if it's if it's stuck closed or getting clogged, pressure, too much pressure will build up. And then so what kind of symptoms might someone see?

SPEAKER_00 4:26

The biggest one that everybody will see is an oil leak. So oil leaks is going to be the number one symptom when the PCV system is not working properly. That because that's because the crankcase pressure builds up so high that seals, for example, the crank seal, the rear main seal, cam seal, valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket, uh, any kind of seal in the engine that holds oil or oil passes through when the pressure builds up, it could actually you know make a leak. And then you'll see it on the ground. You'll see it. Uh, well, you may not see it because the newer cars have this little cover under at the bottom of the car. So that cover, guess what? You don't see it until they until you drop it or until you lose it. Some people lose it on the road, and all of a sudden you're like you could be able to spot a leak. And that's when we I I mean, at least I do try to inform the customer the leak is is there, but it may not be a major problem because the PCV system might be faulty.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

So another, I think, sort of fun symptom is um could the pressure build so that the dipstick pops out?

SPEAKER_00 5:38

In some cases, yes. Uh, I mean, the pressure could be that high. So, yeah, the PC, I mean, you got the dipstick, the pressure can pop the little guy out of there.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

If it turns out it is, let's say the valve cover gasket is leaking, and it is only because of the PCV valve, it turns out. Can you just change the PCV valve and see how it goes? Or once the valve cover leaks, do you need to change the valve cover gasket?

SPEAKER_00 6:03

We got to remember too, mileage and time. How much time, how many miles? I'm sorry, how many miles have you driven the car? 50,000, 100,000. And as the time goes on, the engine gets hot and gets cold, hot and cold all the time, that uh the seals will get really hard. The seals get hard and then it won't seal properly. So that could be a cause of a leak. But if you suspect, if we I mean if we were to test the PCV system and we find a clock hose, a collapse hose along the PCV valve, uh, a leaking diaphragm on some of the newer cars, that can definitely be able to cause, you know, a few problems with leaks. But we want to rule it out first, and then, like you mentioned, we can uh repair the PCV system, check the leak, and it and if the leak drops dramatically, it improved, then we can just leave it alone and be able to say, all right, and 10,000 miles next year, start planning to replace your bath cover gasket. It's not planning to do this just because of mileage.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

You know what I mean? Not not because it's leaking. A lot of times a leak, it doesn't mean the seal is bad. It means that the pressure is so great because those gaskets are not meant to hold anything. Right. You know what I mean? Meaning it's supposed to hold oil from, I mean, it's stop oil from leaking out, but it's not supposed to hold it under pressure.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Right. Um, so do you you think there's cases where uh people you'll see a leak and then people are just recommended to replace those gaskets and seals instead of addressing the case?

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Absolutely. A lot of people will replace valve cover, oil pan, and whatever other gaskets they think it's leaking, but but they never check the PCV system. Or they remove it and put it back on without doing any in any inspection, and then four months later the leak would come back on. So it's just a matter of time.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

And are there other sort of bigger misdiagnoses or misrecommendations that you think people might be like if they're throwing the parts can at shooting the parts can?

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Yeah. Um, when it comes to oil leaks, I I always like to start at the top. And 90% of the vehicles, a PCV valve for the PCV system is mounted on the top. So we start at the top, and if I and again, if the mileage be able to call it for a new valve cover gasket, then I'm gonna recommend a valve cover gasket along with the PCV system or the valve or the hose or the diaphragm, whatever it takes.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Um, a rough idle could also be a symptom of that.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

On some cases, yes. On some cases, because the because now we have way too much blow by going into the intake, that the intake is not able to handle it, and it and it'll give you a rough idle. It'll give you like a little stumble when you uh when you come to a stop or you know from the accelerating, uh, or sometimes as you step on the gas to take off, might see you feel a little stumble. And that's when that's when we should be, well, as a customer, you shouldn't be asking the mechanic, hey, I need you to check my PCV system. Should be something that we should be able to do automatically, but because I I want to say that the new generation of technicians are not trained in the old-fashioned way, or they may not remember the older cars, they don't know much. You know what I mean? So I I mean, I think that that thing should be um a retrain a procedure for the new technicians that are, you know, that are starting to evolve in the industry.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Yeah, because I went into a dealership um to buy a PCV valve, and i I was really surprised they didn't keep them in stock. And I asked why, and the this the parts person said because they don't really replace them. Yeah. Which I didn't understand. And it's it's a it's an inexpensive piece. Yeah. It's easy to fix and it is super important.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

So which we'll get back to the easy and cheap aspect of it too, when we talk about how it's not that way anymore with the integrated systems. But um, so those are uh some of the things that can happen if it's building up too much pressure. But so it it is a one-way valve, it's like a check valve.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Yeah, it is. It's um yeah, supposed to allow pressure to be sucked in, or I'm sorry, for vacuum to move the valve up. And if there is what we call a backfire, uh any kind of explosion in an insect manifold, that the flame will stop at that point and it won't go into the crime case. I have seen a few engines literally blow up, the valve covers blew up the oil pan because of the because of the flame. And and you gotta have the right amount of everything, the right amount of air, the right amount of fuel, the right amount of spark or uh or flame to be able to create the big explosion. And it will blow up some parts of the engine, like the valve cover with the oil pan, you know what I mean, and so on.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

So, yeah, the fact that it's a one it it only allows flow in one direction, it prevents it going from back into the because a a backfire is really a fire.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Yes, a backfire, it is an explosion that happened at the wrong time, uh, when the intake valve opened and the you know, and the and the explosion is literally going back up to the, you know, going back into the intake manifold. And that's what the PCB host is hooked up to.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Okay, so then if it's stuck open, is that gonna prevent uh protection from a backfire?

SPEAKER_00 11:35

No, it's not gonna give you any, you know, it's gonna prevent it. As a matter of fact, if you have any problems with uh with uh with backfiring, expectator hear a loud pop, a bunch of smoke, a bunch of headaches because you know the bath covers mainly are made out of plastic, they can easily be able to come apart.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Backfires are a little less common these days, right? It is.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

I mean, you're right, but there's always the one instance where where where you might have it, and then all of a sudden it's gonna get you out of surprise, you'll be like, what happened?

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Um, so a PCV valve could get stuck open as well, and what would be some symptoms if that's the case?

SPEAKER_00 12:16

It might give you on some engines, depending on the sign, a little bit of rough idol, uh hesitation, stumble, um, or just basically just a simple I mean you're gonna ingest a lot more oil. And that's something to remember. When the PCV pressure or the I'm sorry, when the blow-by gas is filled up, depending on the design, it could actually push oil right through the PCV valve into the intake manifold, and your engine is gonna consume a lot more oil. And that overstand you're gonna be you're gonna be asking yourself, how come our oil level is low now? And it's just a matter of double checking the PCV system to be able to uh able to help it.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

So that's actually two good reasons to check uh your oil levels, um, because if it's consuming it through the PCV valve, you'll see it's lower. But also, like you were saying, if um it's bad enough clogged that it starts leaking through gaskets, but you can't see it because of the plate underneath, you could also check the level and see if there's a leak that you're just not seeing on the ground.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Um let me add another thing on the on the consumption of oil. So, I mean, it's part of the PCV system, that's why I'm gonna want to bring it up. We may have to put a catch can on some of these vehicles. Uh, the catch can is going to hold on to the liquid oil, and it's just let the vapors be able to pass through. So some engines are notorious to be able to uh to create, um, I'm sorry, not create, are able to consume more oil than normal, even though the PCV valve is operating properly. It's just a design uh of the uh the location of the PCV hose or the PCV valve. And uh I mean I uh I mean example infinity, the PCV valve or the opening is literally under the uh under the camshaft. The camshaft is rotating at you know 1800 RPMs splashing oil. The PCV valve is gonna suck in those little particles of oil, and all of a sudden your oil is low. You're gonna see blue smoke at the tailpipe. You know, so that's that's gonna be a uh a sign that you know that we're having some problems there.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Now, is a is um a catch can considered modification? Like, can you fail smog a smog test for that?

SPEAKER_00 14:41

You shouldn't. Um you shouldn't uh be able to fail. It all depends on the color that they put in. What I mean by that is some of the youngsters may want to put in a PCV, I mean a catch can bright red. I just recommend you just a plain black one. But I blend it in.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

I was also reading though that is as you can't set one up that's gonna somehow delete or reroute the actual PCV.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

No, I mean you cannot delete it. All you gotta do is just uh be able to um if you have to plead your case, pretty much be able to say it's just catching the oil, but the PCV host goes from the insect manifold right through the cash can into the you know, I mean into the bath cover. And that's it.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

I'm guessing that's part of uh the new integrated systems, they're better at catching oil. Like that's sort of why they were developed, right? So newer ones you probably don't need to move.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

But uh, but still the fact that um what frustrates me is when you get uh when the diaphragm goes bad on the new integrated ones, you have to buy the complete valve cover for over $300.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

In some cases.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah, I want to guess that in much more detail in a second, but I did want to ask you, um oh, so um with a with the one-way valve, the PCV valve, if if it's stuck open and so now it's pulling more into the intake, is a P0171 a possible it could be. Like the depending on the code?

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Yeah, I mean it could be depending on the design. Absolutely. Uh what the 171 be contributed more is I'm sorry, the contributor of the P171 will be the actual PCB hose coming from the intak manifold into the valve or onto the valve. That's what the hose cracks. That hose is made out of this uh one to say some silicone. And like anything, after 100,000 miles, that hose will create a small crack because of, again, because of temperature changes, hot and cold, hot and cold. And uh and eventually it will crack right at the rope, right like underneath the hose clamp. And all of a sudden, that you get a code, a piece, uh PC uh P0171. That's one of them.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

A couple other symptoms I wanted to ask you about for that. Well, we kind of talked about it. Um, the oil getting pulled into the um into the intake. So sometimes you can actually see oil on the air filter. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 17:08

On some engines, on some designs, yes. Uh, they have a breather. There is a breather from the valve cover as well going into the airbox or going into some kind of hose, air intake hose. The pressure might be so great that again, it's just going to be able to push the oil into that, and the air filter or the airbox will be oily.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

So it'd be coming through the breather into the airbox.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Not into the PCV valve, it's just the breather because the pressure might be so great that the PCV valve, let's say the hose is clogged up, PCV valve is not operating properly, but it has so much buildup that it's not able to have the proper vacuum, and the pressure builds up so much. So pressure has to go somewhere. So that pressure goes into the into the into the air filter housing. Or sometimes you get a lot of buildup on the throttle plate. The throttle plate, if you ever look at the throttle plate, uh, you know, I mean, if you ever anybody will like to check the throttle plate, if the throttle plate is so oily, it's all like it's all commed up, a lot of it could be coming from the PCV system or the or breather that that might be affecting the plate, able to stick.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Yeah, okay, and you'd be able to see that on the side of the throttle plate. That's easy to see.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Yes, yes, exactly. When you remove the air must. Yep, you will see that like literally you'll find it like uh like if you were to fry so many so much food on a pan, all the gummed up, all the stuff, you know, I mean in front of the plate. Let's let me see if I can make something a little bit more clear here. The PCB valve job is to suck in whatever blow by we have in the crank case. But if the blow by is greater than what the PCB valve can handle, there's nothing the PCB valve could be blamed for. You understand?

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

So there still could be an underlying issue for so, for example, you may have some bad pistol rings.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Those pistol rings are are gonna, you know, you're gonna lose a lot of pressure, and that pressure is gonna translate going back into, you know what I mean, pushing your seals out, making your valve cover with gaskets. So the PCB valve, PCB valve, it could be blamed after a certain part. Then after that, we gotta look at the bait uh at the main at the main picture, yeah, which is the piston rings. After that, H on the gaskets and uh or or seals, and that's it. But the PCB valve, like you mentioned earlier, should be changed, I mean checked and replaced more regularly. Some dealerships don't even carry them or them, that's kind of funny. I mean, it's it's hilarious. When I work in the industry, every 30,000 miles, we have to put a PCB valve in the car, regardless. That was just that. It was just the way, you know, I mean, uh, that was the way it was meant to be at the shop. But now, they don't even care.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

The dealership could have gotten it for me. They just didn't have it in stock, which that's what I like. I still think that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

They go through you know, a few thousand cars a month, they could be making, you know, an extra $120,000 if they sell one PCV valve and I mean a car that needed.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Yeah, I mean that's regular maintenance.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Ah, which brings us to the DIY people.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

So um what I love about the PCV, I said I said it earlier. Um, for those lucky enough to have one that's easy to access and uh it is just the valve itself, which is a small piece, it's inexpensive, it's often really easy to change, and it makes a really big difference. So can we talk about just a couple things about maybe if you want to test your own um and important things to know about if you're gonna swap it out or the hoses, because you can't just put any old holes in there.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

If you have the ability to take it out, inspect it, look at it, and you know, shake it. But see, the shaking part I don't like. Uh, because the how about if the spring is broken and you and I cannot ever see it? It still rattles, right? Some people say, uh huh.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Well, it's I think it's true that if if it it's supposed to rattle, if it's working, but if it rattles, that doesn't mean it's good. But if it doesn't rattle, you know it's bad.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Yes, exactly. I was gonna get to that, but you're right. So we gotta make sure that we look at the at the rattle. Or you, you know, if we're able to look at the PC valve in more detail. But again, if the car had the PCV valve for 80,000 miles, let's say up to six years, I think the first thing to say is it's time to change it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, definitely. If the PCV valve is only the car is only like, let's say uh three years old, you have 40,000 miles, you can take it out. If you have a uh if you can get yourself a little bit of a car cleaner, you can get a little bit of uh acetone. A little bit of anything that could be able to clean that oil or the grime inside, let it soak in, blow it off if you have compressed air, and then just be able to double check it. Everything looks good. Install it, and now you have a PCV, but that is gonna work its, you know, its way in. Another quick check after you clean it, make sure you clean the PCV valve before you do this. What the hose attaches to, you're gonna put your lips around it and blow into it.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

This is not a sanctioned recommendation. Yeah, I know, I know.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

But you know, sometimes you gotta do what we gotta do. Uh, you're basically gonna try to feel pressure uh be able to come off from the side that goes into the valve cover. And if that, if you feel any kind of pressure, either compressed air or your lips, it doesn't matter, you're gonna be able to see, okay, it's leaking too much. You get yourself a new PCB valve, and you're basically gonna try it on a new one. And if it's if you feel a little bit, but not as much as you did with the you know, with the old one, then you pretty much are doing the right thing for the you know, for your engine. Just replace it, you know, and then you'll be good. Another thing to check for is the hose. I have found Honda, Acura, Toyota, some other models who have the PCV valve, and the hose is pretty long. Some of them are like 12 inches long, uh, maybe 14 inches long. It could be as almost as short as maybe four or five inches long. The hose is made out of two layers. The inside layer will be able to collapse, but the outside layer looks nice and and round and firm.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

But guess what? You're not gonna know until you remove the hose from the PCB valve with engine running and put your finger, index finger, your thumb, it doesn't matter which one or your palm, and you should feel a lot of vacuum from the hose. If you if there's no vacuum at the end of the hose, there's something wrong between your end where the PCB valve attaches to where the intake manifold it would attach to that, you know what I mean? The hose attaches to the intake manifold. That's when you know that hose is no good.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Because the intake manifold is creating pulling the vacuum, and you feel that at the far end of the hose.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Yes. And uh, and you know, and and then just don't forget, also, big, big, big, big important thing. Not any hose can work. Right. It has to be a hose meant for PCV system. So you're gonna have to figure out a way to measure it or bring up the old hose, bring it to your local auto parts, and ask them, I need PCV hose this size. You show them, compare, and if you have the old PCV valve with a new one, make sure it fits nice and snug. And then you we may have to put a little hose clamp on it at the end to it reinsure that everything is nice and sealed. Then after that, you pretty much have fixed your PCV system and you save a lot of money. Save and make diagnosis, wrongfully replacing valve covers, seals, and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

And the PCV valve itself, you have to be sure to buy exactly the right one that's gonna allow the right amount of fluid.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yes, yes, yes. Um just a quick example back in the maybe back like early 90s, people were buying the wrong PCV valve at the local auto parts. The orifice or the hole was way too big. Now you talk about earlier, you talk about a code P0171. That's when we were getting a little bit of link trouble codes because the PCV valve was able to suck way too much. Wasn't intended to suck that much. That's when, for example, having a Honda, for example, the PCV valve might be red, blue, or black, even brown. When you go to the outer parts, they might give you a metal one. The metal one is not the right size. And when you put it on, yeah, the car is gonna run. But after a few weeks, a few days, you're gonna feel a big difference. But now you gotta compare. If it's blue from, you know, like a Honda PC valve is blue or red, you're basically gonna go to the other parts that said I need a blue PCV valve, a red PCV valve, a green one. I see green ones, brown, black, silver, whatever it is, and you're gonna compare the office, the inlet and the outlet.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

So we gotta make sure that we get the right one all the time. So that make that plays a big, big, big factor.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

And would you recommend too like just going ahead to the dealership to try to get OEM if if possible?

SPEAKER_00 26:32

We don't have to. Um I I mean I can tell you that um uh uh Toyota do not make their own parts. Honda doesn't make their own parts. So it's just a matter of finding out who makes their parts.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Okay. Yeah, we talked about that with the oil filters.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Yeah, same thing. So finding out who makes a part, then you're gonna pretty much gonna reach out to that, you're gonna find who sells that part.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

And you're gonna go to the local parts, and if they have that part, then just buy one.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

So nowadays, I feel like I'm being cynical, and the uh the PCV was too cheap and too easy and too important. So they had to make it more complicated and more expensive. But that's a cynical way to look at it. We touched on it a little bit. The PC, instead of just being a simple little valve, now there's a whole system that's incorporated into, it's like integrated into a valve cover. Yeah. So now, like you were saying, it's not just a ten dollar part that you can fix for in five minutes. It's a whole big job that's not so much a DIY job anymore and very expensive. I mean, if you know more what's doing.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

If you have the time, if you have the time, you can definitely knock it out.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

But so I wonder if you can. I jotted down a few things, but your thoughts on the pros and cons of the new integrated system and maybe issues you've seen come up.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

That one thing I can tell you is they literally have us tied down to go buy the valve cover at the dealer.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

So that's gonna be you're gonna spend $300 plus on some of these models. Just the part just just for the valve cover. If you can do it yourself, you're gonna save about $400 in labor. So you're talking about anywhere between seven to almost a thousand dollars, between seven hundred to you know, to almost a thousand dollars just to replace a valve cover after after six years of use. Right now, there are some options and some models that you can go through Amazon. You can find place uh, I mean, pieces, replacement parts, a diaphragm, a spring. You can get them from them and you'll save yourself a lot of money. But you do that's something that that you as a car owner that has that PCV system gonna have to try to do yourself so you can save the money. And it's really simple, but it does take a little bit of time, tiny bit of time, when I say a little bit, half an hour to 40 minutes, okay, just to change the one diaphragm. If you're impatient, if you lose your cool, then you're probably gonna end up pain, big butts, and you know, and it's just the way, you know, it's I mean, just the way it is.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

But does the new system have different issues? Like if it does go bad, the diaphragm goes bad, does it cause issues that seem more serious or like what causes that to go bad? I know every everything's sort of made of plastic these days. Is that more of an issue too?

SPEAKER_00 29:19

With the diaphragm, uh, a lot of the rubber, it's intended to last only so much. So, I mean, I don't want to get into that, but it's just the way it is, is they design it. Uh, on the newer incorporated systems, you will definitely get a lean code. Some customers I remember hearing, they said, I hear like somebody's whistling at me. Every time I every time I accelerate, and I'm like, what do you mean? I'm looking around when nobody's around. They don't realize that it's under the hood that the that the little whistling sound starts making it. And uh because the diaphragm's ripped. So inside is vibrating, it's just be able to bounce, making this whistling sound. Yeah, I mean, I find you know, heard that's those complaints. So sometimes you actually get going back to the 171 trouble code, running lean, just because it's able to give us that trouble. Because too much air is too much air is being sucked in at the you know, I mean, uh, at the wrong time. And uh, but yeah, I mean, there's uh you you get another problem like a hesitation, a stumble, uh, low fuel mileage. So all those things that could happen depending on the uh depending on the design. Everybody's going to the same style now. Again, I think they wanna they want us to spend more money.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

I mean, I mean I mean it's kind of rough.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

And one one other thing I forgot to ask you about in terms of you know, when you're sort of trying to figure out a diagnosis of the PCV, at least for the old PCV valves, there's no specific code that comes up that has any relation. Like there's no PCV code, right? So is there now with these integrated ones, is there anything that no but I just remember, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Yeah, I just remember when I worked for Ford, I found a PCV system on uh on a lot of engines on the V6 engines, the 4.0 and the silver uh it was a single overhead cam engine. Then I remember rebuilding an engine, or I'm sorry, be able to swap an engine, and I just plugged in the PCV valve like normal, and I was getting a code for an actual PCV valve. I'm scratching my head, what's going on? Some PCV valves have a little plug that is gonna run a heater to it. Now, we don't have the problem here, but if if in some parts of the country it gets really cold, that heater or that that little circuit is gonna warm it up. That was that's the only that's the only vehicle or the the only manufacturer I have dealt with. PCV trouble codes.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

And I'm like, I don't remember unplugging the PCV valve, I don't remember doing much. But when I reach over from the back of the engine, sure enough, there was a little plug extra that I forgot to plug it. I didn't realize it got the actual PCV valve and the code went away. So there might be some models, there might be some models. I'm not gonna say there's none. Yeah, there might be some models that actually have might give us a trouble code for a PCV valve. So if your PCB valve has a little plug attached to it, it could be a heater or it could be something that is gonna measure, you know, whether the PCB valve is uh it's operating or not. So let's not rule that out. But on the on the newer ones, I don't see any plug, I don't see any wiring attached to the PCV system. It's just basically just a piece add-on to the top of the valve cover so it can suck in the be able to suck in the blow-by gases from it.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Have you had any people come in where they've been quoted some very expensive repairs, and it turns out it just needed a new PCV valve or a new valve cover?

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Yeah. Um the biggest problem is when they say you need a rear main seal, and they're talking about six, seven hours of pulling the transmission apart. And it's not the P, I mean, it's not the rear main seal. Something else. Okay. So we need to remember oil leaks don't start at the bottom. Oil leaks start at the top. So always let's find out what's leaking at the top, diagnose the top, check the PCV system, and then work your way down. Yeah. And if you come up to the point that, yeah, you know what, it is the room and seal, then you got no choice, you gotta do it. Oil dye. Just to confirm, after you fix a PCV system, if you were to put in some kind of dye in the oil and grab yourself a black light, you can identify where the leak is coming from. You may have to have the engine running to physically see the oil dripping or coming out of the valve cover gasket, out of the whatever passage it might be in there. Oil pressure switch, that's another misdiagnose, and they blame it into you know something else, a rear main seal, because some of those oil pressure switches are in the back of the engine. So before anybody spends money on oil leak repairs, we need to isolate the problem. We got to check the PCV system, drive the car for a little bit, wash it as much as possible. Uh, you may have to pay somebody to pressure wash your engine just to make sure everything's nice and clean. Then we're gonna start looking at what is leaking. I'm yeah, you know, I don't I don't recommend anybody in my classes just to replace caskets just because. Yeah. I want to find uh, and I'm and I'm quoting this from somebody else I heard on um it was on YouTube. It's an AAC instructor. I don't remember his name, but he says we got to gather evidence. We got to have the evidence in front of us, in front of the customer, so he and she can actually trust us to do the repair properly and don't feel like they got ripped off. So, but yeah, I mean it's just a matter of what the mechanic is used to, and a lot of people don't like to challenge the mechanic. I would recommend you guys to ask questions if you're gonna pay a lot of money for a repair, find out what exactly it is, yeah, and you know, and then show me. I want to see.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Yeah, sometimes we have to be advocates for ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

We have to, I mean, it's sad that some people just get greedy and they don't really care about anything or anybody. They just care about their pockets and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Yeah. Yeah. Well, one thing that has been so uh heart heartening for me is that uh all the people that I've been meeting, all the shop owners and uh people that I've been meeting in industry, I feel like are really honest and really good. And it's just I went into I think a lot of people go into learning about cars because they've been burned so many times. And uh I feel like that's how I felt. I didn't want to be taken advantage of. Um, so it's good to know, and you you sort of get this mentality that, oh, that's how the whole industry is. Um, and you've talked a lot about, you know, being a good force out there and changing that sort of reputation. Yeah. Um, and so I I I'm so happy to know that there are so many uh good people out there.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Yeah, I mean, I I think it's easier to it's easier for a mechanic to be honest and do the job right, as opposed to try to come up with many excuses as to what could be the problem. And hopefully after so many parts change, you you uh you will eventually get the problem fixed. But for somebody to say you needed all those parts on the table, that's kind of a I I don't know. I mean it's kind of dumb for somebody allowing that to happen. So so we have to be a little bit more fearless about asking questions. And if the mechanic cannot answer it, and then you might as well go somewhere else.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Right. Someone has to be able to answer your exactly in a in a non-offended way.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Yeah, I mean, even if you get offended, it's what it is, but it's a it is he or she giving me the right information to be able to repair my car properly, yeah. And it's the right amount of money for you know for it too. Right. So we have to, I mean, we have to challenge anybody, you know, the dealer, the mom and papa shops. There are some there are great people out there, but there's also bad people out there that those bad people make make the great ones like myself and everybody else look bad, regardless.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Right. And so, yeah, that's what I'm hoping to help people have more information and feel a little more secure when they go to a shop. And I feel this episode, um, this topic was uh a really great one to help people know that uh maybe a small thing is causing a seemingly big issue. And um definitely, and it's a it's something people it's not um a given, like people who haven't heard of PCV valves, you know, as much as maybe spark plugs, you know. So uh thank you so much for yeah, no problem. I mean people understand this thing.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

I'm glad we can help. Cool, no problem. Bye.