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What Chinese Medicine Says About American Skin Habits

• Clean Skin Club • Season 1 • Episode 10

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Why skincare might never fully work for you — until you try this.

In this episode of Face It, Bari sits down with Ava Lee — known online as Glow With Ava — who blends traditional Chinese medicine, inside-out wellness, and K-beauty in a way that actually makes sense. Together, they break down why the Western approach to skincare keeps so many people stuck, and what ancient practices can teach us about getting to the root cause.

From what you eat and drink to how you move and sleep, this conversation reframes everything you thought you knew about clear, healthy skin.

This is skincare from the inside out — no quick fixes, just real habits that actually work.

We cover:

  • Why the US approach to skincare and medicine is fundamentally different from Chinese medicine
  • What it means to treat your body as an ecosystem — not separate parts
  • The one daily habit Ava says has the biggest impact on your skin
  • Why ice water, cold coffee, and raw salads may be quietly wrecking your digestion
  • What "dampness" is in TCM — and how it shows up on your face as acne and congestion
  • What your breakout location is actually telling you about what's going on inside
  • The TCM organ clock and why eating breakfast at the right time matters more than you think
  • Why going to sleep with wet hair and cold feet can affect your hormones and skin
  • What to actually eat for skin brightening, plumping, and anti-aging benefits
  • The truth about collagen — does eating it actually do anything?
  • Why cold plunges may not be good for women
  • What gua sha, facial massage, and lymphatic drainage actually are — and how they differ
  • The biggest misconception about lymphatic drainage (more pressure is not better)
  • What ear seeding is, how it works, and what it can actually change about your appearance
  • Why Korean skincare is not a scam — and the real reason K-beauty is so far ahead
  • The three K-beauty rules everyone should follow
  • Why habits don't sell bottles — and how the beauty industry benefits from that
  • Face movements for smile lines, crow's feet, jawline, dark circles, and more

Watch now and let us know your thoughts in the comments.

Intro

SPEAKER_01

Your cold salads is probably doing more harm to you than your iced coffee first thing in the morning. No way. So in China, there are no salad shops. And I think in America in general, there's too much cold. We're shocking our body with cold water, cold drinks, cold plunges, cold everything. Cold plunges. Not good for TCM, especially for women.

SPEAKER_00

Is America doing everything wrong when it comes to medicine?

SPEAKER_01

When I was sick, my mom never fed me Tylenol or anything. Traditional Chinese medicines very much focused on preventative care versus reactive care.

SPEAKER_00

In the US, we ask, what product fixes my acne? In China, they ask, why is my body creating acne? The difference? One chases a quick fix. The other gets to the root cause of the problem.

SPEAKER_01

You don't treat like a pimple or a wrinkle with like a quick solution. In TCM, they actually look into what's going on inside the body that's reflecting on the outside. I have cobani every morning. See?

SPEAKER_00

That is completely spiking your blood sugar right there. Oh gosh. This is a sand-drinked American diet. Do we use too many strong ingredients in the US? Yeah. Like retinol. No, it's not a thing in Korea. Do you think that the beauty industry benefits from us believing that we need more products? 1000%. Habits don't sell, bottles do. Yeah. If skincare has never fully worked for you, this might be why. Is Korean skincare a scam?

Meet Ava Lee

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to Face It, the podcast that cuts through the noise of the beauty industry. I'm your host, Barry, and today we're breaking down a different approach to skincare, one rooted in Chinese medicine, daily rituals, and inside out health, not just products. My guest today is Ava Lee, better known as Glow with Ava Online. She blends traditional Chinese medicine, inside out wellness, and K Beauty in a way that actually makes sense. She helped bring ancient practices into modern skincare, and her content focuses on the idea that good skin isn't just about using more products. It's about daily rituals, simple techniques, and habits that support the body from the inside out. Ava, welcome to Face It. Thank you for having me. Thanks for being here. I'm so excited to just pick your brain about Chinese medicine. I feel like it's like trending right now. It's become popular to become Chinese now. Exactly. Exactly. And I just I feel like I just can't wait to learn a little bit more about like your culture and everything that you practiced growing up and how it got you to where you are and just Chinese medicine as a whole. I'm excited. Yeah, of course. I'm so excited to be here in Miami as well. Yes. It's a lot warmer. It is definitely warmer here for sure.

What Is Traditional Chinese Medicine?

SPEAKER_00

Um okay, but let's dive into it. Let's do it. So uh my first question for you is why do people practice Chinese medicine?

SPEAKER_01

Traditional Chinese medicine has been around for centuries and centuries at this point, right? And as a background, I am Korean by descent. Both my parents are Korean, but I grew up in China almost my entire life. My parents are still there. So I do practice a little bit of both Korean and the Chinese medicine. It's just something that has been both ingrained in me. It's very natural to me. And it's just something that like is like a way of life for me at this point now. So I think now, um, like living in the US and I'm trying to explain to my audience of like what exactly is it? Like what are the rules around it? Because it's not science per se, right? Right. But it is still a form of science in the way you live because traditional Chinese medicine is kind of basing your body as an ecosystem, right? Not separate parts. So for example, when you're sick with a chronic condition or something, or you have a pimple, TCM, I'm gonna call it TCM to be quick. Sure. But you don't treat like a pimple or a wrinkle, you know, with like a quick solution. Right. In TCM, they actually look into what's going on inside the body. What is your body trying to tell you? What are what are the signals that your body is um sending you? And it shows up in all different parts of your body. And that really is the core concept of TCM. Looking inside for all the signals that your body is sending you that's reflecting on the outside.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Okay. So my next question is because since you mentioned how, like, usually when you have a pimple, like it shouldn't be this quick fix, right? Like you should actually look inward and see what's going on. Like, I feel like a lot of times, like we are kind of just like, oh no, I have a pimple, like what's what product should I use? Like, what can I put on that right now to make it go away tomorrow? Like just chasing that quick fix instead of trying to really

Is America Doing Everything Wrong When It Comes to Medicine?

SPEAKER_00

see like what is the reason we have this pimple, right? Yeah. So my question kind of is like, is America doing everything wrong when it comes to medicine? Good question.

SPEAKER_01

I wouldn't say they are doing everything wrong. Maybe the approach is just different. The approach is extremely different when it comes to Western and Eastern medicine. And that's the biggest culture shock that I came across when I came here, not only when it comes to treating pimples, but also when it comes to treating flus, for example. So let's just like start with like the everyday like flu. When I was sick, my mom never fed me Tylenol or anything. Like she was like, okay, you are going to be stewing pears. I'm gonna pair, like, stew apples and put all these herbs in my tea for you. You're gonna drink that. And if it's really bad, then maybe we'll see an acupuncturist, we'll do like all these other remedies before really getting into the whole strong, harsh medicine. But in the West, I think the quick fix is like, okay, like let's just like treat it with the meds, meds, meds, right? Yeah. So antibiotics, and so many antibiotics, but I think when it comes to really big emergencies, Western medicine excels at it versus the East. But when it comes to really like finding the foundation and getting your body ready for it, traditional Chinese medicine and Korean medicine does it extremely well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's almost like like traditional Chinese medicine, Korean medicine is like playing the long game kind of.

SPEAKER_01

It's playing the long game, it's very much focused on preventative care versus reactive care. Right. Right. So, you know, you see this whole transition between preventative and reactive care when it comes to health, but also when it comes to skincare, which we can talk about later too.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah,

The #1 Habit to Change According to Chinese Medicine

SPEAKER_00

totally. So I have a question. If someone were to change like just one habit that they do using Chinese medicine, what should it, what should it be?

SPEAKER_01

I've been talking about this for a really, really long time. And it's something that I personally didn't follow at all in my 20s. You know, my mom always told me, you cannot be drinking ice water, like all that. But when I came to America, you know, when I go to restaurants, like the default water is ice, ice cold water. Right. And you would never be able to find that in Asia, especially in China. When you go to a restaurant, the default is people giving you lukewarm or hot water or hot tea at restaurants. There's no such thing as ice water.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, why? Why is there no such thing as ice water?

SPEAKER_01

Because it's just ingrained in the culture that ice is bad for your body. Okay. Ice is only when you like really need it. But even in the hot, scorching summer, you should not be drinking ice water because the more ice you put in your body, the more stagnant your digestion becomes, the more swollen and bloating that becomes, and the more issues. So it's actually putting fire into you know, the flames.

SPEAKER_00

That's so interesting. Because also, I feel like for me, like, and I don't know if I it's just because like I wasn't raised like no thinking that ice was bad, but like I need the ice water. It's like what tastes better to me. Yeah, exactly. So I'm curious for you, like, is that with hot water? Is hot water what just like tastes better to you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I cannot drink ice water. Oh, wow. Even uh dinner, every time I go out to dinner in the US, I think let's say, for example, even like 20 years ago when I first came here, I would be like, okay, like, do you have like hot water at restaurants? And everyone would be like, What? Like they thought that was like crazy. Now when I do it, it's a little like like better. And restaurants get it, especially when I ask for hot water with lemon. Right. But 10 years ago, if I ask at any restaurant in the US, I want hot water, they would be looking at me as if I have like three faces.

SPEAKER_00

It's not, it isn't the craziest question because you know, when we drink tea, yeah, it's hot water. But like, I'm not asking for tea. I'm straight up at hot water.

SPEAKER_01

They're like, then they were like, You want tea? And I'm like, no, I know what tea is. I just want hot water. So, anyways, long story short, if there's one thing that you can fix, it is something that I did for myself and it's really helped is try maybe stop the iced coffee, iced matcha, drink hot w hot lattes, maybe.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. Okay, we'll definitely get more into that because that's really, really interesting. Yeah. But I will have a couple more questions about like Chinese medicine in general. Um,

Does Where You Break Out Mean Something Is Wrong Inside?

SPEAKER_00

so my next question is does where you break out on your face mean something is going on inside your body?

SPEAKER_01

That is like one of the core principles of TCM. Okay. Especially when it comes to breakouts and how you treat acne. There are a lot of different ways, like, you know, TCM practitioners look at acne in general, right? Acne isn't just because, like, oh, like it just happens to be on like this part of the face, right? Yeah. It really goes much deeper into your daily habits, like what you ate, etc. Um, and that's why when people look at the face, there are sometimes like certain areas that get a lot more pimples than usual. For me, it's usually around like my nose or my cheeks, for example. Right. Some people are really along hormone, um, like the jawline. Yeah. And I think the only thing like people like talk about is hormone acne, which now we relate to as more along the jawline. That's more related to your reproductive system and your hormones. But other parts, like, for example, your nose is a little bit more correlated to your heart and stress, your cheeks are more um correlated to your lungs and a lot of inflammation in the body. Your forehead is a little bit more tied to digestion and stress as well. So when PCM doctors um approach this, they do something called like the facial mapping of like where do these signals pop up on the face?

SPEAKER_00

Okay. So I think for me personally, like I probably see stuff pop up on my cheeks, which you said has a lot to do with lungs and inflammation. Yeah.

Dampness: How Cold Foods Show Up on Your Skin

SPEAKER_00

What could we or what could I do based on Chinese medicine to help with inflammation in my body and see less breakouts on my cheeks?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So that is also in the cheeks. What happens when you have acne along that area as well is with inflammation, right? Especially around here. Yeah. That is when, like what we call in TCM, call like something forming dampness in your skin. Because when you have a lot of cold drinks, cold ice drinks, first thing in the morning, cold coffee and an empty stomach, really cold, like cooling foods, like just complete like salads. If you only have a salad for lunch without any other ingredients, warming ingredients to balance that out, or if you're just having like a great yogurt every single morning without any other balancing warming ingredients, like these are all things that are like extremely cooling for your stomach. And when your stomach is under that condition, it does this thing called dampness in TCM. And dampness slows down digestion first, first and foremost. It also causes bloating, it causes irregular periods, it causes painful periods. It's just like a whole like digestive fire that's going on in your stomach. We don't really realize that because you don't like sense uncomfortableness in that moment. But inside your body, your body for for prolonged periods getting used to used to that. But because it's creating this whole dampness, flood in your stomach, that shows up on your face as more congestion, texture issues. And that buildup eventually shows up as more acne, too.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my gosh, wow. I'm like sitting here kind of just thinking about everything I eat. And I guess I didn't realize like I do drink a lot of cold water. Like I was like, walk me through your day. I drink a lot of water. Like I'm one of those people that love water, but I love cold water. Like I like cold water. So I guess that's not great, you know? And I love like a yogurt in the morning.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Like if I I think a very standard American girl diet, which I used to do completely when I was in finance and everything too, was I start my day with a grande or venti sweet vanilla latte or a frappuccino, right? So I do that. And then I'm thinking, like, okay, if I intermittent fast or if I don't eat until 11, 11:30, because all my coworker who were guys were doing that. I was like, okay, like if I delay my eating period until later on, that means maybe I can lose weight, right? So that's how I thought. It was so toxic in my 20s. So then I'll eat like just like a Greek yogurt or something with nothing else, like the chubani with full of sugar. I would eat that for breakfast with my really sugar-loaded Starbucks coffee. I have cobani every morning. See, that is completely spiking your blood sugar right there. Oh gosh. Swarming so much dampness in your stomach. And then come around 12 or 1 p.m., you're getting your sweet green salad with maybe a little bit of chicken, but it's completely all raw, right?

SPEAKER_00

I am getting you're you're like just you already know what I eat every day.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know how. This is a standard American diet. It is. And it's so cold. And then what do you do? You get like the crash, maybe you have another like coffee or something in the afternoon or a matcha. Once again, it's gonna be something ice cold, right? And then for dinner, same thing over again. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think that the foods I'm eating are like secret. Now I'm thinking the foods I'm eating are secretly like ruining my body. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Noted. Noted. Moving on. Um, so I kind of have a very similar question, but I want maybe to see if there's anything else other than the foods that we're eating that you can think of for this question. So,

What's Quietly Ruining Your Skin Every Day

SPEAKER_00

what's what's one thing that people do every day that is quietly ruining their skin based on Chinese medicine? Now I know you kind of said like the food you're eating, the diet. Yeah. Is there anything else that we should be talking about for?

SPEAKER_01

I think I think an important thing is, for example, over cleansing, over-exfoliating your skin and under moving, under-circulating your body and your lymph nodes. Interesting. By that I mean I think a lot of the times we want our skin to be squeaky clean, like all these cleansers in the market or scrubs, or like, okay, your face has to be so clean. But when you're over cleansing and exfoliating your skin, you're breaking down your skin barrier. Yeah. By doing that. By breaking down your skin barrier, you are losing that protective barrier. Your skin has to extra work, extra work. And by doing that, you're losing that barrier. And by overcompensating it, it actually leads to more breakouts. Right. In a way. And

The Role of Circulation & Movement in TCM

SPEAKER_01

the on the flip side of things by circulation, TCM is all about circulation, circulation. What foods, what activities, what exercises can you do to maximize the overall circulation of your body, to bring your body into a state of harmony. And it's really not crazy because in China, you actually don't practice crazy heavy workouts or you know, um training or cardio. It really is about very gentle movements, like Tai Chi and stuff. So it's really about just like moving your lymph nodes very gently. Um, for example, like just hitting your armpits every day. Like this is where your one of your biggest lymph nodes actually live under your armpits. So just hitting it, that's enough to get your circulation going. Oh wow. And releasing your lymph toxins every day.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I need to start doing that. Yeah. I kind of thought like lymphatic drainage, like you just which we'll get a lot more into like techniques and stuff like that later in our conversation, but I always thought of it just like in your face. And like I feel like people just put so much pressure and yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, it's great, but lymphatic drainage actually like more occurs in your body. Oh, wow. Anything else. Okay, good to know.

SPEAKER_00

So

What TCM Looks at First When You're Breaking Out

SPEAKER_00

if you're breaking out, what's the first thing Chinese medicine would look at? Is it is it diet?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, diet is a big one. Um, we walk through the diet thing, right? Right. Another thing, I mean, if you're for example, if you're eating poorly, I think what doctors are always asking you, are you bloated? Do you always crave sugar? Do you want sweets right after every meal? Um, do you are you eating a lot of cold food? Like, how do you feel throughout the day? That is a sign of dampness, is like as I said earlier, because if your digestion is weak, your body can't process whatever food you're eating into and processing and turning that into energy, yeah. And that is going to be a snowball effect and showing up on your face. Another, um, another one is like looking at you know your sleep, for example. Sleep is good. So I think the three factors TCM looks into for acne is how is your diet? What foods are you eating? How is your sleep? Are you eating, are you sleeping well enough? And then lastly, stress, for example. And you know, like we hold so much stress, but I think what people don't understand is the really strong intercorrelation between stress and your body, yeah, and even posture or even like acne and everything, because when you don't have that emotional release and you kind of hold that in, that harbors, you know, a lot of you know, chronic inflammation, right? Whether it's in your stomach or your back pain or anywhere on your face. Yeah. Right. So being able to release that in a healthy way is very important.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. What's like Chinese medicine's like biggest secret for helping with stress and helping manage stress?

SPEAKER_01

I think daily movement, okay, like slow movement, nothing crazy. Chinese medicine actually does not promote, you know, berries workouts, crazy cardio, crazy weightlifting, none of that. Oh wow. It's really just about like gentle breathing workouts. And also the time of the time of the day when you practices is also pretty important in NTCM.

The TCM Organ Clock: Eating & Living on Your Body's Schedule

SPEAKER_01

Oh, okay. And I think something that has helped me a lot in the last few years is following what you call the TCM organ clock. So I'm someone who used to work, you know, minimum 100 hours a week when I was in finance. I never ate on a regular schedule. It was completely irregular. I was always out drinking. It was just like not a very healthy lifestyle. Right. And starting a few years ago, when I wanted to get really get my body in check, I started to follow a little bit more of the TCM organ clock because my mom would always say, you have to eat breakfast around this time, right? And I never really understood it, especially as someone who tried to do interminate fasting and that in turn completely wrecked my hormones. Right. Right. So, in short, what the TCM organ clock is, is during the 24 hours of the day, for every two hours, that two hours responds to a certain organ in your body. And during those two hours and when that organ is at its fire, it's the most energetic. And that is why the during those times when you should take the most advantage to, you know, use that organ and feed what it needs. Right. Right. So let's just say, for example, you're starting the day between 5 to 7 a.m. So on the 5 to 7 a.m. is usually when like your um like lungs are in place, right? It's the most active. This is the time when you want to be able to, you know, deep breathe deeply, do meditation, do very slow lymphatic drain exercises to get all the toxins out. And then from 7 to um 9 a.m., this is when your intent large intestine is in track. So this is the time when you should be eating breakfast. Okay. When your stomach is very strong. So 7 to 9 a.m. is when the stomach is strong. So you want to be able to eat your breakfast around this time.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Um, and then right after that, 9 to 11 a.m. is also when your spleen is the most active. By spleen, I mean this is the time when you want to be doing all the things that requires the most brain energy in your time. So it's also the time when your um spleen is able to absorb everything that you ate between 7 to 9 a.m. and actually use that into energy to convert that to help you and your body in return. And then we go into the heart and stuff afterwards and like when to eat lunch. But I think those are the I I really try to keep the time between like 3 a.m. to 11 a.m. three to three to five a.m. is usually, you know, more for the lungs and like really deep breathing. That's why a lot of monks, for example, try to go to the mountains and breathe between 3 to 5 a.m. when they wake up. 5 to 7 a.m. is more for you know, the large intestine, 7 to 9 a.m. stomach, 9 to 11 spleen.

SPEAKER_00

That's so interesting. Yeah. So the question I have for that is like, let's say someone doesn't operate like on that exact schedule, right? Like they don't wake up at five, but maybe they maybe they wake up at 8 a.m. instead. Could you follow that ex that same structure, but starting at 8 a.m.? Or is it like you're on the 8 a.m. organs? You're on the 8 a.m. Okay, so you skipped, you skipped the morning organs. Okay. Gotcha. Oh wow, that's so that's so

Should You Go to Sleep With Wet Hair?

SPEAKER_00

interesting. Yeah. I do have another question going back on the dampness that you were talking about. Right. Is it true that going to sleep with damp hair or like just sitting in like damp or wet hair could be harmful for your skin?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I actually didn't think that was completely related to like TCM because like I would, my mom would always tell me like going to bed or going outside with wet hair is like the worst thing you can do for your hair. Your fair hair is gonna all fall out. But it makes sense, right? Dampness in any way cold energy because your scalp is directly like it's going in, right? So if you have cold air going into your scalp, that's not only going to lead to like hair loss, but it really leads to all the cold organs in your body as well. In the same theory, you know, we the topmost part of your body is your scalp and your head. Right. The bottom most is your feet, right? So cold travels from the top and the bottom, yeah, but especially the bottom as well. So This is another tip that like I talked about a few days ago on Instagram. It's to keep your feet warm at all times. And this is another culture shock for me because I just grew up wearing socks to bed every single day of my life, even in the summer.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I thought everyone did it until like people were like, no, I feel suffocated.

SPEAKER_00

You're like crucified in America if you wear socks together. Exactly. You're like, it's everyone's like, what? No.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm like, Carol, I will travel with socks anywhere. If I don't have socks on, I will not be able to go to bed. Yeah. That's how it is. But that's because cold enters through your feet in traditional Chinese medicine. Yeah. And by going up the feet, if you're cold, if your feet are cold, the cold penetrates through that, goes up into your spine, your lower back, and then especially for a woman, into your uterus. Yeah. What is that going to do? That's going to impact your reproductive, your fertility, and everything. And painful periods, fatigue, like bloating. It is all related to cold feet.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Do you would you say that like everyone kind of has cold feet in general? And it's more so about how you warn them, or is it like if you have cold feet, something's going on in your body? Yeah. That's like I've always had cold feet my entire life. I have too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's just a good sign of poor circulation.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. Okay. I need to, I need to start getting start using all these practices. Um

Chinese & Korean Herbs for Skin Benefits

SPEAKER_00

okay. So I have a question about Chinese medicine skincare specifically. Does Chinese medicine skincare use herbs that you don't typically see in US skincare?

SPEAKER_01

I would say it's not just about skincare, but I would say more so in like your food and daily life. Okay. Right. So I don't think TCM is like super strong about like using skincare, like herbs in certain skincare items. Yeah. But using herbs in your tea, for example, or your smoothies or your breakfast to feed the skin for that inner glow, right? So, you know, for example, um, if you're making like soup or breakfast, it's all about warming breakfast, right? So we are using jujubees and goji berries for the sweetness. Sometimes they put that into eggs. So um, even in China, you're not just cooking eggs, I feel like. For if it's for breakfast, they're putting in blocks systemy for all the warming ingredients, they're putting in goji berries for the skincare benefits, jujubies for the extra skin brightening effects. Like so, I think like, and then when you're sick, for example, they're using ostrogonto, astrologus, all these different herbs, tandrum peels for different conditions, but you just also have to be very careful while using herbs for different conditions because some pro some herbs are too cooling, some herbs are too warming, and some of these different properties can be bad for someone who is dealing with you know a certain autoimmune disease, yeah, or someone who is pregnant, for example. So it's I think it's like pretty good to consult with a practitioner. Yeah. But I would say there are a few herbs that are like generally pretty safe.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Which, like, for example, goji berries and juju bees, those are like pretty safe

How to Eat Your Skincare

SPEAKER_01

for everyone to have.

SPEAKER_00

I wanted to actually get into like how to eat your skincare. So I feel like you kind of started to touch on that. So I want to ask you about like certain foods that people should eat for certain skin benefits.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh. So I actually wrote um like a mini ebook on this. Oh, no way. With like five different sections on, for example, skin brightening, inflammation, or plumping, etc. But I think like overall, eating your skincare is not just about one supplement or one food that you eat that's gonna transform your skin. Right. It really is feeding every single micronutrient, yeah, um, and vitamin so that you're preparing your body to be able to take what it needs in a certain time. Right. Maybe one day your body doesn't need that much vitamin D or vitamin E source foods, yeah. But another day it will be able to take that reserve and use it, right? Right. So I think something that like I like to focus on, it's not like I'm like eating my skincare like every meal. I love, I love my pizza, I love my chicken nuggets. But for breakfast, for example, I really try to keep it clean and getting a lot of my vitamins for the day. That's why for breakfast, I like to focus on vitamin C. That's where I want like all the brightening benefits of this. So this is when I focus on like eating, getting some kind of citrus um or berries, for example. Okay. By that I'm not saying like, okay, just get like a minute-made orange juice. I'm talking like pure, like fresh orange juice or oranges, or you know, organic blueberries in a smoothie or fruit bowl and stuff. Yeah. Um, jujubees and goji berries are also extremely high in vitamin C. There's a lot of plants and vegetables that's also high in vitamin C. Then you have the more like plumping benefits, the anti-aging, like slow aging benefit foods. Like, what are those, for example? For those, I would focus a lot on, you know, collagen, omega-3s, um, and a lot of plant proteins. So, what are some examples of that? Um, in CCM, for example, bone broth and chicken feet, they're very, very high in collagen. When it comes to fish, you know, fish that's very high in omega 3s, like salmon, mackerel, some kind of tuna, that's really great. For those who are vegan or vegetarian, so many plant sources like sesame seeds, walnuts, flox seeds are amazing for that as well.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. What about like to make your face more firm? What food would you eat to help with like facial firmness? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think the firmness is also very much related to the plumpness. So definitely the collagen-rich foods. Gotcha. The omega-3 rich foods.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. And so I had a question, speaking

Does Eating Collagen Actually Do Anything?

SPEAKER_00

of collagen, does eating collagen actually do anything for your skin?

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, this is a question I get all the time. And it's like the biggest debate on the internet. Yeah. Short answer, yes. Okay. But not in the way that a lot of people think. And that's, I think, where the controversy comes, right? Right. Because I think a lot of people are like, okay, like, let me just like uh if you just have a collagen powder, for example, they're like, that's not gonna do anything for your skin. Because it doesn't. If you have some food, for example, you have a collagen powder, or if you have a collagen-rich food, once you have that, it's not gonna go directly into your skin and like make you plump immediately, right? What collagen-rich foods or powder, whether it's a supplement or real food sources, does is that it actually enters your body and it breaks down. When it once it enters your body, it breaks down into amino acids, right? These amino acids become more of like the building blocks for when your body has to build collagen on its own for your skin, your hair, your nails, whatever it is. So when you think about it, collagen is kind of more like the raw material before the body uses the raw material that is inside your body that hasn't been broken down into amino acids to be able to make its own collagen. So a short answer, yes. Long answer, it's not that simple as you talk about it, right? And also you have to make sure is your body ready for the collagen, you know, is your digestion strong enough to handle a lot of the collagen, right? Because some people can't handle like the two big scoops of collagen that is in a lot of like the big ones. Like sometimes maybe you only you can only handle three to five grams of like some kind of collagen powder. Right. Sometimes if you're if your body just can't handle all that protein, it just can't, right? Right. Or are you having enough vitamin C to pair it with the collagen? Does that work?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. So this is interesting because I actually thought collagen was like, let's say, for example, I thought collagen was like eggs, right? Like we as women were born and we have like a certain amount of eggs since day one. And as we get older, um, they start depleting. Yeah. So I kind of thought collagen was the same way. That it is similar because it does start to deplete.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. So after age 25, yeah, the rate at which collagen decreases in our body accelerates. Yeah. Right. But that's why your body needs extra collagen and it needs the extra collagen or nutrient to be able to build more collagen inside your body.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. So it can eating collagen can increase our collagen levels. Not directly, but indirectly, absolutely. Okay, gotcha. So kind of, or or should we say, like, does eating collagen like support support the collagen that you already have? Like just help to build it to be stronger. Yes. Okay, that makes sense. Okay. So then does taking collagen supplements not really do anything then?

SPEAKER_01

No, it's the same, same theory. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. So collagen supplements still can't help. Yeah, absolutely. Okay.

Is Iced Coffee Making You Break Out?

SPEAKER_00

Good to know. Um, so I kind of wanted to go back to like you mentioned iced coffee and matcha. So is being that it's cold, is iced coffee making everyone break out?

SPEAKER_01

I wouldn't say it's making everything break out, but it's definitely not doing any good for your body. And as someone who loves a good iced coffee, first thing in the morning is something sometimes I just have to indulge in it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But ever since really cutting that down, it's really changed my digestive system, my digestive track, how I feel, my fatigue throughout the day, it really has because once again, you know, in TCM, we hate the cold. We hate the cold in any form, scenario, whatever, especially on an empty stomach. Right. So if you do really want that iced coffee, you know, what they say is have it with your breakfast or have it after a big meal, have it after lunch. That's a lot better than first thing in the morning.

SPEAKER_00

Gotcha. Okay. And what about matcha? Does the same thing go for matcha? Like is matcha same. Same thing. Same thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but I mean, it's still caffeine.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

In TCM, we hate caffeine. Uh TCM hates all sorts of caffeine.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, that is strong like that. They do like, you know, loose leaf green tea.

SPEAKER_00

I was gonna ask, like, that is free. Yeah. Okay. Good to know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Because it's not that cooling in nature versus just straight up coffee.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Coffee and matcha is very cooling in nature.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Coupled that with cold ice, uh, double the cooling.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Well, what if you were to have a hot coffee or hot matcha? Yeah. Does that make a difference? It does. Okay. Big difference. Okay. Yeah. So it's not about like the actual drink itself, it's about the temperature of the drink.

SPEAKER_01

Temperature of the drink, but also Chinese medicine wouldn't recommend you drinking hot coffee first thing in the morning. Right. Either. Okay. Yeah.

Are Salads Actually Bad for You?

SPEAKER_00

Um, so what about salads? Are salads actually bad for us?

SPEAKER_01

I have a feeling TCM uh true TCM practitioner would say your cold salads is probably doing more harm to you than your iced coffee first thing in the morning.

SPEAKER_00

No way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Wait, why? Because cold salads is too raw in nature. You're not just having a few sips, you're having an entire salad. Right. Anything that is raw, especially when it's a salad, makes it very hard for your stomach to digest. Your stomach is working overtime to digest something that is raw versus something that's like cooked, right? Yeah. Something a stir-fried vegetable. So in China, there are no salad shops. I don't think I ever had salads growing up. Yeah. Any restaurant you go to or at home, everything is cooked. It's not like Chinese people don't eat vegetables, they eat a copious amount of vegetables. But everything is stir-fried. And for example, if a certain vegetable is more cooling in nature, or for example, a cucumber or something, there's there's like cucumber salads that are famous in China, but it's not just cucumber syrup because cucumber is very cooling in nature. Yeah. The way they do it is they mix it with minced garlic, ginger, soy sauce, and all these other spices that make it more warming. So it's balancing the nature out. And every dish is kind of like that. Okay. Yeah. So my when I was going through my insane like GI issue, I want to say eight years ago, seven, eight years ago, my TCM practitioner said, This is also when I was working in finance, I was having my daily sweet greens.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, he was like, the worst thing you can do for yourself right now is to have that sweet green.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. That's upsetting. I know.

What Should You Actually Be Eating for Better Skin?

SPEAKER_00

Okay. So to kind of just like simplify it, if you want better skin, what should you be eating and drinking?

SPEAKER_01

I think not just for your better skin, but for your overall health, right? It's not like I follow this every day. Yeah. They're like, we gotta live a little too. But an ideal day, the perfect person would probably be waking up, eating their breakfast that is warming, either a congee with an egg or steamed eggs with side cooked vegetables and a side of rice or something. So a balance of protein, vegetables, and carbs and fiber between 7 to 9 a.m., no caffeine, probably, and then eating their lunch between probably 12 to 2 p.m. ish. Um, again, everything is gonna be warm. If you want a little caffeine, maybe you can have it with your lunch or after your lunch. Same thing for dinner, everything is gonna be cooked. Um, Chinese people eat a lot of meat as well, too, but everything is cooked. Yeah. Yeah. There's no raw fish.

SPEAKER_00

Good to know. So

Can the Temperature of Your Water Affect Your Skin?

SPEAKER_00

we talked a lot about like the temperature of food and some drinks and water. Covered it all. I know. So my question is though, specifically with water, can the temperature of your water make a difference for your skin?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Okay. I think that's also why I'm so happy to see the trend of people drinking hot water with lemon in the first thing in the morning, right? As long as it's not too acidic, you're not putting like two lemons in your water, right? I think it's totally fine. Okay. Because that is not shocking your system. Right. You know, like we just don't want to shock our system. And a big TCM rule is we don't want any cold shocking your system. And I think in America in general, there's too much cold. We're shocking our body with cold water, cold drinks, cold plunges, cold everything.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my gosh, cold plunges.

SPEAKER_01

Cold plunges.

SPEAKER_00

Not good for Twitter.

SPEAKER_01

Not good for TCM, especially for women.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. Why for women specifically?

SPEAKER_01

Because of our uterus. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I've never tried it and I didn't want to. I've done it once and I'll never do it. And every time someone tries to get me, I'm gonna mention that. Yeah. I'm gonna mention you. I mean eat my salads every day, but I will never cold plunge. Never cold plunge. Now I can actually say, actually, it's bad for our health. Yeah, it's bad for our health. I just was too scared to do it, but now I can say, nope, not good for you. Yep, exactly. Thank you. Thanks for that. You got you're getting me out of a lot of situations. Exactly. Um, okay, so I came across this really

Can You Eat Bird Saliva for Glowing Skin?

SPEAKER_00

random fact, and it's really interesting, and I'm really curious what you're gonna have to say about it. Is it true that you can eat bird saliva for glowing skin?

SPEAKER_01

It's so disgusting when you say it like that, but it's actually called Bird's Nest in China. Um, I have only had it like three times in my life, but it's actually pretty common in China because it's a big source of collagen.

SPEAKER_00

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01

It's just like eating your collagen. It's like a it's a it's a healthy source of collagen. They don't a lot of people don't just straight up eat it, but it's actually a very expensive item, okay? They go to like gift shops in China or like the premium like TCM shops, like it is one of the most highly coveted and expensive products. Really? It's big gifting promotions as well. Well, yeah. So what what is it? Like, what does it look like?

SPEAKER_00

Like, is it in a jar?

SPEAKER_01

It's in a jar usually. It's kind of like slimy, it's a little gooey, it's white usually. Um, the way people eat it, the way I've eaten it always is because I don't want to just have that on its own. I'll either like put it into like a steamed milk, a bowl, and like put a lot of fruits or goji berries on top of it and then eat it.

SPEAKER_00

It's really not that bad. Yeah. Yeah. Does it like have a taste, like a certain it's kind of just curly? Okay. Yeah. That's so interesting. Good to

What Is Jello Skin?

SPEAKER_00

know. Um, okay, so I want to talk also about something that you started. So you started a movement on social media around having jello skin. Oh, yes. So, what exactly does it mean to have jello skin?

SPEAKER_01

Jell-skin is a term that I coined, I don't even know at this point now. Maybe five years ago, we are officially trademarked and everything now. But the reason why I started jello skin was because, you know, there's a lot of terms like glass skin, you know, dewy skin, all of that. Right. But all of these terms only refer to the outside um of your skin and how your skin looks. But when I, for example, when I was getting a facial back then, you know, the celebrity esthetician was like looking at my skin and he was like, keep touching and bouncing it. And he was like, it's so bouncy, it's like jello. And he was like, No, I've never seen someone with such bouncy skin. Oh, what a compliment. This is also five years ago when I was a little younger. But he did say, you know, you can't achieve this kind of jello skin, jello like skin with skincare products. So what do you do? He was asking me. And that got me into this whole thing about like, oh, you know what? Because I've I was on my health journey back then, um, like all the things I do for my inner beauty, but also outer beauty in the sense that I'm sculpting my face, I am doing my facial exercise, I'm using my guasha. Yeah. That is the thing that can help affirm your skin. And jell-o skin is basically not really achievable with products, skincare products alone. It's really about your daily habits and the things you eat and the things you do.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Would you say that like skincare products just shouldn't be used at all, or that there should be a healthy balance between healthy balance, absolutely. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Like I need my skincare products to be able to do my facial massages, right? I'm not telling my dry skin.

SPEAKER_00

Very true. Okay. So speaking of like face facial massages and lymphatic drainage, I

Gua Sha, Facial Massage & Lymphatic Drainage Explained

SPEAKER_00

want to kind of get more into like techniques, you know. We talked all about like the food you're eating and diet, which is super interesting. But now I kind of want to talk about like different techniques that, you know, people practice when they study Chinese medicine. Yeah. Um, so my first question is morning puffiness. How can you fix morning puffiness in just a minute? Like, what's the first thing you're doing?

SPEAKER_01

I will say all of these facial exercises, it's not really quite like just all TCM. It's a blend of TCM, it's a blend of Western technique, it's a blend of Korean aesthetic techniques, it's like everything together as well. But I think morning puffiness, like the the first thing I do is just wash my face. And with any kind of water or like my serum, I am just like you, especially my jaw, like I'm doing my knuckles and I'm tugging along with this. Okay. Doing that, and also even just like facial tapping, that alone a little bit. Yeah. Just like waking up the system. Waking up the system. Yeah. And then if I'm extra puffy, I'm always going in with my guasha and I'm doing the lymphatic around my eyes where I'm especially puffy, my cheekbones, and then I'm working down to my jaw, but I never stop at the jaw. I'm always bringing that down to my neck and then my lymph over here. Because that's where a lot of the puffiness begins. That's something that people don't really realize. Right. I have my gua sha here. This is our best-selling goua sha for by Ava. Oh, wow. I've never seen it. Yeah, I know. No. It's it's one of our best sellers because this can target every part of your face and body. Interesting. Like, for example, this usually fits perfectly between your eye and your jaw. So when I do this, I'm perfectly lifting this part up. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00

That helps with puffiness. Can you explain to people that are listening and not watching of the movement that you're doing? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So basically, what I'm doing is I am placing one edge of my gua shaw right below, right at the corner of my eye. Yeah. And then that will touch the corner of my jaw. And from there on, I am lifting this entire gliding. Yeah. Glide. Do five to ten glides a day. Okay. Sliding it. And then there's also an angle with two balls of our gua sha that is fitting perfectly between your jaw. Oh, nice. Right? So you're tugging, do a little movement, change, and then bring that down your neck. Yep. No? You really want to drain that neck. This also fits perfectly under your eyes. So you want to bring a lot of circulation to your eyes because one of the biggest reasons for dark circles is actually poor circulation. Because if you don't have poor circulation around your eyes, that is being clogged, right? Yeah. So you want to move that around to be able to open up your eye area, decrease the puffiness, and reduce the appearance of your dark circles.

SPEAKER_00

So is the answer to like fixing circulation just by doing lymphatic drainage? Okay. Good to know. Good to know. Um, so you mentioned like facial massage, gua sha, lymphatic drainage. Is there a difference between a facial massage, a gua sha, and lymphatic drainage, or are they all kind of married to each other?

SPEAKER_01

I would say they're all married to each other. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So there's no real difference between the three. It's kind of just saying it in a different way.

SPEAKER_01

No, there is, but it's hard to get into in just like a short podcast. Gotcha. It gets too deep.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Interesting. But gua sha is the device. Is the device, yeah. But it's a bad and a practice. And a practice.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's actually a practice, more so than just a device.

SPEAKER_00

Nice. Okay. And but with that practice, you're draining your lips.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

And also kind of giving yourself a facial massage. Yes. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Um, even though it's like a lot to get into, which out of the three, so which would show the fastest results? A facial massage, gua sha, or lymphatic drainage?

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god. It's it really depends on each person. For me, it's gua sha.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Right? Okay. That typically will be for most people because you're really using a separate device versus your fingers. Gotcha. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And is it true that your skin can look permanently swollen if you don't do lymphatic drainage?

SPEAKER_01

It could, but I don't think it's just a function of just lymphatic drainage. Your face can look permanently swollen from a lot of different factors, like cortisol face, for example. If there's a lot of inflammation in your body, that's going to be reflected in your face as well. Yeah. And doing guasha and lymphatic drainage can obviously help solve that, but when you have so much chronic Inflammation that you're not treating and you're only trying to treat it with a gua sha, that's not the simple solution.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So everything truly kind of revolves around like what you're putting into your body. Interesting. Okay.

The Biggest Misconception About Lymphatic Drainage

SPEAKER_00

Um, everyone also thinks, like for lymphatic drainage, for example, that you have to put a lot of pressure and like rub really hard. Is it actually just very light tapping?

SPEAKER_01

That's the biggest misconception. Your lymph is a very, very, very sensitive organ system.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And you don't want to overdo it. Actually, overdoing it can actually make you swell even more. So you just have to be very careful about when you get lymphatic massages at certain places too. Cause when you overdo it, your lymph will swell. Yeah. And I've actually had that happen to me before. It was kind of scary.

SPEAKER_00

Really?

SPEAKER_01

Right. Um, but when you do it at home, even like when I said light tapping around your face is something that was something that I love doing either in the morning or nighttime. Light tapping, that's just activating and like telling your system that, hey, I'm here, I'm here. Yeah. Let alone sometimes just enough for your light tapping. Let light tapping right here on your collarbone, too. Sometimes just enough. Oh wow. You don't have to go crazy hard.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Okay. Good to know. Um, my next question is more about skincare. So is it possible to apply skincare the wrong way?

SPEAKER_01

Oh my God, so many different ways. Yeah. Great. Like the order you put on skincare can be bad too, right? Is it like a deathly mistake? Not really. But if you have expensive products and you want to get the most out of it, the order is important. So what I say as a rule of thumb is maybe start with the lightest to the heaviest. You don't want to start with a heavy moisturizer and then put on like a toner. Yeah. Because your toner's not going to absorb into your skin.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. But what about like when applying skincare, like the motion that you're using with your hands? Like, is there a right and wrong way?

SPEAKER_01

Kind of, but not really. I mean, people say like never you should never like drain it down, but that's fine.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Like eye cream, for example. How would you apply eye cream like in a proper eye way?

SPEAKER_01

So your eye are is a very delicate area. So I'm not like, you know, rubbing it aggressively and causing even more wrinkles. Right. I usually try to like tap, tap, tap, tap around the eye area. And then I do some like really gentle massages to rub it and making sure the eye cream is going in. But usually I'm always using my ring finger as the main finger that applies my eye cream.

SPEAKER_00

Ah, okay.

SPEAKER_01

Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I kind of want to get into acupuncture now. I feel like actual is like very misunderstood in America. So I kind of wanted to ask you like, what's the biggest misconception about acupuncture that you want to clear up?

SPEAKER_01

I would say I got so much acupuncture growing up as well. Any kind of like sports injury, like, you know, my mom would take me to acupuncture. I think the biggest misconception here is that people are just scared of needles. Yeah. The fact that like needles also stay in your skin for like 30 minutes or longer is kind of a scary concept to a lot of people. Yeah. But you're not like bleeding. No one bleeds really from acupuncture. It's more just like stimulating certain parts of your body and your organ to bring harmony to your body. And acupuncture is so powerful in being able to treat so many conditions, symptoms, etc.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So it's interesting that you say that that people are just like scared of needles. And that's why people kind of will sway away from acupuncture. So why do you think that like, like, why is it that people are okay with getting Botox but are skeptical of acupuncture?

SPEAKER_01

I think I think that Botox, like you get that immediate, immediate difference, right? With acupuncture, sometimes you do it, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you need 10 sessions to really see some kind of a difference. But it's not like, hey, I do acupuncture on my face and you see an immediate, you know, disappearance of your wrinkles.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. And so is acupuncture only for people that like have something wrong? No, it's for anyone. Anyone can do it.

Acupuncture & Ear Seeds: What's the Connection?

SPEAKER_00

I kind of just said, like, why are people why is there what's a misconception about it? Is that okay? And then why are people okay with getting Botox and set up? And is that are you cool with those two?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And if you want to transition, you could be like, okay, like, you know, well, the acupuncture to earseeds kind of thing. Yeah. Is our ear seeds like acupuncture? You could say something like that if you want to transition.

SPEAKER_00

Let's do that. Okay. Got all this. Big question. Okay. Um, so I kind of feel like there is like a pipeline kind of between acupuncture and earseeds. Yes. What's the whole hype around earseeds?

SPEAKER_01

The hype around earseeds, I mean, you know, our company Vieva really brought it to the center of the attention. And it's not like earseeds haven't been around for a long time. It's just now we're making it a more viral moment. Yeah. And I think there's like a big misconception going on lately as well, because earseeds, um, a lot of acupuncturers do practice it at their clinics, but the way they practice it um is they're very different from the ones like we have, right? So it's just like a terminology ERCs, but the ones we have is actually the origin is, of course, you know, in TCM and Chinese acupuncture, but our ERCs aren't really based on the TCM like map of the year or the ingredients, right? It's not needles of anything. It's just kind of like using these energy balls to stimulate points in your body. So these energy balls that we have is actually made with 10 different medicinal herbs. This is kind of what it looks like for people who can actually see. But this every single thing is a ball.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And they're all handmade. Every single ball is made with the perfect proportion of different Korean medicinal herbs and minerals. And they've been trying to develop this for over 10 years to get the right proportion because we can tell you exactly what 10 ingredients go in here, but you can't recreate it because the right proportion is the proprietary technology behind it.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So that is why any person with sensitive skin, any medical condition can technically use our ear seeds and not react to it.

SPEAKER_00

Gotcha. So wait, is it true that the ear controls like our entire body? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

Which is wild because you know, our ear is so tiny compared to the rest of our body. Yeah. But your ear really is a microcosm of that reflects your entire body. You know, every single point, different point in your ear correlates to a different organ or your system that can cure a lot of conditions that people are having. And the easiest way, I mean, it's kind of similar to reflexology, where your feet also reflects to different parts of your body and your organs. Right. Right. It's a very similar theory with ears as well, but ears, I think, is even more powerful because you can see almost like instant changes, especially when you use our earse. So the easiest way to think about it is um your ear is shaped kind of like um a baby torso in a mom's womb. Oh. But upside down. Interesting. So, for example, the ear lobe kind of reflects more of the person's head and brain. Yeah. The in the middle is more reflective of, you know, the torso and the organs of the body. Okay. And then the top is more related to the feet and spine, for example. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Okay. So are there like a million different things that ear seeds can help with?

SPEAKER_01

A million different points. And because of that, million different things earse can help. You know, a licensed ear act, um, ear therapist can be able to treat so many different conditions. For example, like, you know, your posture, your sleep issues, even like a certain autoimmune conditions, infertility, like anxiety, ADHD, uh, eating disorders, like there's a million things it can actually treat. And that's how powerful your ear is because when you stimulate certain parts of your ear, it is actually sending a signal to your nervous system. Okay. Your ear and your nervous system is extremely closely connected. And by sending that signal to your nervous system that correlates to a certain organ or your system, that's sending a signal, and it's a very, very communicative system almost instantly, too.

SPEAKER_00

Gotcha. Wow, that's that's crazy. It's mind-blowing. Can ear seating completely change someone's appearance?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it actually can.

SPEAKER_00

How so?

SPEAKER_01

If you do it consistently, you know, it is targeting your nervous system and it's targeting the depuffing of your face, it is targeting the posture, it is targeting your shoulders. For example, our V-line year seed kit that is more so to eventually get that depuffed snatch jawline, and it does that almost instantly. But doing that, it's not ear seed, that one ear seed is just targeting your jawline, for example. We are targeting so many different parts of your ear, but we're first doing that to relax your spine, then it works to relax your shoulders because when your shoulders go down like this, then it also correlates to your collarbone, your neckline appears longer. If your neckline appears longer, your face looks even slimmer. And then we target the TMJ and the jawline point to get that lift. Yeah. And also by doing that, because your body's more relaxed and it's absorbing all the toxins, all the puffiness in your face kind of just like swells out and goes out into the system.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. And is earseeding something that we can do to ourselves, or do you have to go see someone to get it done? Um, both, right?

SPEAKER_01

But in a kit that we made, if you follow the instructions and place it in the right part of your ear, absolutely it's safe to do it by yourself at home.

SPEAKER_00

Oh wow. Okay. And can earseeding help with acne?

SPEAKER_01

It can. Yeah. There are certain points that can definitely, because it's not just like the acne. Let's say, let's say, for example, we talked about it's like a whole 360. Yeah. So you're targeting the inflammation in your body.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

To target the acne.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, wow. Yeah. So would you say then, because we kind of talked about like cortisol and cortisol face earlier.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Would you say earseeding can be a solution

K-Beauty vs. American Skincare: What's the Difference?

SPEAKER_00

to cortisol face?

SPEAKER_01

It can be. Yeah. It definitely can be. I wouldn't say it's like a one-stop shop. Right. There's a lot of other things we have to tackle at the same time.

SPEAKER_00

Totally.

SPEAKER_01

But absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

I feel like you said earseeding has been around for so long, but we just don't know a lot about it. Right. Exactly. And I'm about to change that. I love that for you. Yeah. This is so interesting. Okay. I hope we can get to try that, Mike. Can't we? We're going to do it after this. I love it. I love it. Okay. So I kind of want to move over to Korean skincare and K Beauty. You know, that's just all over the internet right now. So I kind of want to just get into it in general. Yeah. Is Korean skincare a scam?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely not. It is not a scam. I think the reason why people may think it's a scam is because the products are so affordable compared to a lot of products in the US. But when you actually try it, you will know that it's not a scam because it's so effective for the price point. And we can get into why and how K Beauty can achieve this level of excellence for the price point. Yeah. And that's why I think it's a it has been a long time coming, but why there's it's loved by thousands and millions of people around the world now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. What would you say is the difference between like Korean beauty, Korean skincare, and American skincare?

SPEAKER_01

I think this also very much goes back into what we talked about earlier, where Korean skincare is very much preventative versus reactive skincare in the US. Yeah. Right. In the US, we have a lot of really strong,

Kids Skincare Brands: Innovation or Money Grab?

SPEAKER_01

astringent acids, retinols, pimple patches, like pimple creams, like something that is only for reactive purposes. And sometimes when you use too much of that, yeah, it could work, but it's kind of worsening your skin barrier over time. But Korean products is very much preventative to the point where you don't ever want to get to the point where you have to use those strong actives. Right. Right. Um, but I think the culture in general, like the way I grew up or everyone in Korea, is from a very young age, you are taught that you need to be applying your moisturizer, you need to be applying your skincare and sunscreen just like you're brushing your teeth. It is very much part of everyone's daily ritual. So it is something that, like, you know, young kids are always wearing sunscreen.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, that's that should definitely be a given. So then that brings up a question. So there's like a whole debate that goes on in the United States online about like skincare for young kids. And should kids be doing skincare? Not even just sunscreen. I think sunscreen is for everyone. Yeah. But like washing their face and doing moisturizer. Like a lot of people in America are coming out with these like skincare brands that are marketed just for kids. Is it in Korea? Are you growing up doing skincare?

SPEAKER_01

Like, is that part of you're doing skincare and there's like skincare for babies, but it's not something that's completely marketed the way that's happening in the US. And I think it's a little sad of what's happening here because what you see here is really a money grab.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

To be honest with you. Right. It's great that we are encouraging kids to use skincare at a young age. I think there's no issue with that. But when the marketing is kind of swaying towards a money grab, that's where I have issues with it. Because in Korea, like even Korean companies, like right, like they are the trendiest.

Why Is Korea So Far Ahead in Beauty?

SPEAKER_01

Any new trend Korean companies will jump on. But even Korean companies don't do that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And that's saying a lot because we have every single product for every single concern in Korea. But when Korean companies don't do that, they don't go that far. Yeah. That's an issue. Right. So I mean, they have like, you know, safe like barrier creams for babies to use, safe sunscreen to use, but it's all preventative. Like they're not marketing just for babies.

SPEAKER_00

Right. How is Korea so ahead of everyone else in beauty and skincare? Oh, yeah, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_01

Because I think there's like so many parts to it, but I think the biggest part about this is that Korea used to be a very, very extremely poor country not too long ago. Not too long ago, really 50 years. Okay. After the Korean War, lost. Korea was the poorest country. And I even when I remember in elementary school, Korea had something called the IMF, where they had to borrow money from the International Monetary Fund because that's how bankrupt the country was. This was in my lifetime that this happened, right? But in order, but we're a very, very resilient country. Yeah. So after the Korean War to be able to survive, Korea made a national decision to really focus on the industrials and the manufacturing capabilities of the country as a whole. So starting then, instead of outsourcing a lot of things, we built things from scratch. AKA building manufacturing facilities, the factories, chemists, really getting a core, you know, edge on a specific skill set so that we don't have to rely on exports and imports to be able to survive. And because that was a national movement, it became just like a very fast-forward, like very fast process of doing that. And it almost touched every single part of every industry, including beauty. And by doing so, beauty, you know, a lot of countries would be able to import certain ingredients or like import certain like facilities or something. Korea, that's why when there's a new trend in Korea, for example, snail mucin or PDRN, you can go from ideation to formulation to getting it in the factories to the shelves and selling it to the consumers in such a crazy short time.

SPEAKER_00

Really?

SPEAKER_01

Less than a year sometimes. Wow. That it would take years for the US to do. Oh, yeah. And that is only possible because of the way Korea built their infrastructure for the beauty industry. And um, Korean companies actually work really, really close with the ODM, OEM manufacturers and you know, kind of innovating what's texture, what ingredients. So it's like a very collaborative process that I don't think any country in the entire world has this kind of structure. So we're just lucky that this structure was in place over the years after the Korean War to be able to do this. And I think another big thing that does play a part is a good thing and a bad thing, but Korean culture in general is a very fast and disciplined culture. We overwork, it's one of the most high working countries in the entire world, but also one of the highest suicide rates as well, because people are overworked.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So it's a good and bad thing. Um, but there there's a saying in Korea where it's bali bali, basically saying like everything has to be fast, fast, fast, fast, fast with no chance of error.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So there is no chance, no, no chance for error, but it's gotta be done yesterday.

SPEAKER_00

Oh wow. That's interesting. I like that. So, what about like ingredients? Are Korean skincare ingredients just better than American ingredients? No, no, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01

I I think the way they use an ingredient is smart by combining it with other ingredients,

The 3 Rules of K-Beauty Everyone Should Follow

SPEAKER_01

but it's not like, oh my god, this one ingredient in Korea is so much better. Yeah. The only exception I would say is like ginseng. Yes, Korean ginseng is phenomenal, especially when it comes to skincare. But I think it really comes down to formulation and how you make different actives and fermented ingredients, for example, work harmoniously together.

SPEAKER_00

Right. So, do we use too many strong ingredients in the US? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like retinol is not a thing in Korea.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, really? No. Okay. Interesting. So if you had to strip K-beauty down to just like three rules that everyone should follow. Three rules. What are they?

SPEAKER_01

Three rules. Number one would just be hydration, hydration, hydration when it comes to layering skincare. It's not just one thick cream, it is about toner, essence, serum, ampule, moisturizer, the so-called 10-skip skincare routine. Yeah, yeah. It's about the art of layering. Yeah. Number two is, you know, preventative, prevent before anything comes. So it is doing your skincare, but also wearing your sunscreen. You know, Korean women don't just wear sunscreen. They wear a sunscreen, they wear sunsticks over it, they wear hats that cover the entire body, they wear sun gloves, they were they cover their body. So it's some protection. They know that. And then third is just consistency over everything.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. I like those. Um, is there any part of the Korean beauty industry that you think is overhyped?

SPEAKER_01

Overhyped? Maybe the work culture.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Work culture that comes at the expense of the country.

SPEAKER_00

So I saw something interesting. I'm not sure if it's true or not. So I wanted to ask you, why do people use

Rice Water: The Free Skincare Secret

SPEAKER_00

fruits and vegetables as a face mask?

SPEAKER_01

Have you seen that? No. I mean, yeah, the DIY, right? Yeah. So I'm I don't agree with all the DIYs, but it's when it comes to cucumber, watermelon, rice, etc., those are all things that Korean women did for centuries for free skincare. And I still do it. It's the healthy vitamins, the healthy fermentation from natural ingredients that work.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. That brings up a point. Um, rice water.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That's like a huge thing in Korean, right? Yeah. What's like what is the benefit? I still do it.

SPEAKER_01

I still do it all the time. Yeah. Your rice is naturally a very, very um hydrating ingredient, but it also is a very gentle exfoliation. So you'll know when you after you use rice water on a

Face Movement Techniques for Common Skin Concerns

SPEAKER_01

cotton pad, you should use the clean skin club pads for rice water, and then just kind of use it on your face or use it as a sheet mask, just put it on. Your skin is going to be baby soft. It's such a miracle worker to this day. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Is there any like brands that you recommend that has like a good rice water?

SPEAKER_01

No, you do it at home by yourself. Oh, you just make it with rice. It's free.

SPEAKER_00

And just use the water?

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

I have a lot of videos on how to do it. It's very simple.

SPEAKER_00

I'll have to go find it on your page. Amazing. Okay. So for our last segment, I know that, you know, your big thing is movement. And I'm just, I'm gonna name a couple common concerns that people have with their face or with their skin. And I kind of want you to show viewers the movements that they can do to help with this concern. And then also kind of describe the movement that you're making for anyone that's listening and not watching. So, okay. What movement would you do to help with your smile lines?

SPEAKER_01

Smile lines, something that I like to do is grab three fingers, right? Um, second, third, and fourth. Grab one right along your smile lines and then one along your mouth line. You want to always keep make sure one is stable and one isn't, right? One's moving, once make sure your wrinkles aren't moving further. Right. And you want to tug and move that forward. Oh, okay. Like this, and smoothing that out.

SPEAKER_00

So kind of like literally taking the line and like yeah, stretching it, stretching it out a bit, but lightly.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. I like that. What about what movement would you do to help with crow's feet? Crow's feet is a very sensitive area.

SPEAKER_01

But sometimes, honestly, just even like tapping around your eye is enough as well. Sometimes you don't want to tug too much at it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. More so just like getting that circulation going. But something that another thing is like two fingers. Along your trofi, one stable on your eye, up here, and then one using the eye cream. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Um, what movement would you do to help with forehead fine lines? Two or three fingers, zigzag along your forehead.

SPEAKER_01

And then also that's horizontal. Do it again vertically. And this is very light. Like, I don't know if you can see how light I'm tapping.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Very light like this. It can be a little more. A little bit more. Yeah. Okay. Making a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01

Especially you need a serum or moisturizer, something underneath it. Yeah. And tug. Okay. Nice.

SPEAKER_00

What movement would you do to help with sharpening your jawline? Jawline is one of my favorite ones.

SPEAKER_01

There's a million exercises you can do with it. Do your earsees, do your gua sha. Another one, you know, I just said do your knuckles. Oh yes. Knuckles and do your jawline. But another one, if you're wearing makeup or you're just outside, you don't want to be touching your face, is just doing like the, this is what I call the wow exercise, right? It is saying in a very exaggerated wow, like wow, right? And by doing that, you're effectively working your master muscle, which is also a big factor in tight jaw tension. Yeah. You're releasing that. By doing that, you're releasing the jaw tension. But at the same time, by doing this like 10 times, wow, you're also helping overall your cheekbones as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Is this wow exercise, the exercise Kylie Jenner does before similar. Yeah. Getting ready for some big she has. Okay. I'm doing something right. I like that one. Um, what movement would you do to help with reducing puffiness? We talked a little about this before.

SPEAKER_01

Puffiness, you know, honestly, just like, you know, gliding your face with a goua sha, I think is like the easiest one for me.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Yeah. And you showed that, you kind of showed that movement earlier when you had your gasha out. Um, what movement would you do to help brighten your complexion? Oh, brighten your complexion.

SPEAKER_01

I think that tapping? Tapping, tapping your face. Yeah. Getting the circulation. Brightening complexion is all about circulation. Right. Complexion equals circulation. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

What movement would you do to help with lip wrinkles? Oh, lip wrinkles.

SPEAKER_01

I do these two fingers, right? Glide across your entire lip.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Where do you see lip wrinkles? Like on your lip? Lip or outside? Right outside the lip. Just stimulating around it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's more like around the lips. Gotcha. Okay. And then last one, what movement would you do to help

Habits Don't Sell, Bottles Do

SPEAKER_00

with dark circles?

SPEAKER_01

Dark circles, goua sha, improve that circulation. If you don't have a goua sha, really just like do your eye massage. I have a lot of videos on it. Yeah. But using your third and fourth finger, go around in circles. Oh. Along the under your eye, go along your brow bone, circular motions, at least 10 times. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

To bring that circulation

The #1 Chinese Medicine Principle to Start Tomorrow

SPEAKER_00

in. And use like a cream or something. Very nice. Okay, awesome. So I have a couple questions for you before we end the podcast. Okay. Um, so my first question is do you think that the beauty industry benefits from us believing that we need more products instead of better habits? I mean, 1000%.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. 1000%. Habits don't sell, bottles do.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, very true. Yeah. Very true. And then if listeners could apply just one Chinese medicine principle to their lives starting tomorrow, what would it be? Wear your socks to bed. Wear your socks to bed. That's the most important one we learned today. No, but it's it's weird because it seems like something so small and so dumb. But it's so dumb makes a difference.

SPEAKER_01

It's a huge difference. Wow. I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_00

I think I need to because I really have cold feet. Yes, always. Truly. And I'm always like putting it on my boyfriend, like because he's warm. Yeah, yeah. To like warm them up and he gets so mad. But my my feet are always cold.

Where to Find Ava Lee

SPEAKER_00

That's a sign. So get your socks on. I need to get fuzzy socks. Fuzzy socks, yeah. Those are the best. Okay. Well, Ava, it's been so amazing talking to you. I feel like I learned so much about Chinese medicine and movement and you know what we're putting into our body and how that's really affecting everything else, you know? And I really want to go try like earseeds and acupuncture and all the different treatments. And I'm going to be tapping my face like all day. I love it. All day, every day. Well, thank you so much for being here. If you want to just let listeners know, you know, where they can find you. I know you have your Instagram page, your company. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, um, thank you everyone for having me. You can find me at Glow with Ava on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube. And our my company is called by Ava, by Ava.co, and by Ava on Instagram. So you can find us there for all the holistic tips.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, check her out, guys. I know you learned a lot today, just like me. So, you know, she knows she's got all the knowledge. Well, guys, this has been FaceIt, where we get real about what works and what doesn't