Peer Support is Crucial During Reentry

Host David Rothenberg spoke with Tony Lesane and Jose De La Cruz about the incredible value of the NEST at The Fortune Society, a peer recovery center that offers a safe space and welcoming community for participants, as well as weekly groups that encourage important discussions about recovery and healing. Many people who utilize the NEST’s services find emotional support and understanding from others who can relate to their experiences.  

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:02

Hello, I'm David Rothenberg hosting this podcast, the Re-entry Reality Check of the Fortune Society, a nonprofit organization which advocates for the formerly incarcerated and for men and women still in prison. We also provide multiple services for the thousands who walk through our doors each year. Thank you for joining us. When you discuss re-entry at places like the Fortune Society, the obvious uh most apparent things people talk about job finding jobs, housing, mental health support, drug um drug rehab, arts programs, uh all of which is a vital part of the Fortune Society and programs for re-entry around the country. But there's something in Fortune that fascinates me. It's a room which on paper would have no purpose. It's called the Nest. And I've gone in there several times, and people are sitting around talking. And I've talked with some of the people that are there, and the and the comment that made me start digging into it is I asked one young man, and he said he took advantage of all the different programs at Fortune, and I said, Why do you come to the nest? And he said, I feel safe. And I started exploring that with other people, and that the number of people who are in re-entry who come to programs like the Fortune Society lack trust because they've been in institutions where they've been overlooked or abandoned or abused. And so I wanted to talk about what happens at the nest. Tony Lassain is the philosopher in chief, and Jose de la Cruz is a a young man, not that young, but a man I met who was uh sitting in on one of the sessions that I thought, so Tony, um you came to fortune uh out of prison. Yes, sir. And you got inv got involved in programs and put your life together.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

But uh um well maybe you can talk about yourself in terms of the nest, but what happens at the nest and what do you do there and and what is its value as you see it?

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Okay. Uh again, good morning. I'm my name is Tony Saint. I'm a I'm a recovery coach paraspecialist, and I work in the in the nest, which is which is the network engagement support team. That's what we that's what the NES stands for. The acronym. The act the acronym is the network engagement support team. Those are the fancy words.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

What's the stolen heart of it?

SPEAKER_00 2:59

The stolen heart of it is the participants, the people who come there who looking for help, who looking for that space, that safe space where they can let go some of some of them burns that some of them seekers that they hold on to and don't get the answer, and can't, and seeking out the answer, and they look for the answer where it's enough of us in there who we can identify with each other from prison, from the homelessness, from whatever relationship with with husband and wife, relationship with with family. So we try to address, we strive to address everything that we can and help everyone so when they do leave the nest, they we they feel safe enough to come back. And when they come back, I also would love for them, I always look for them to give. And I always try to give them the best resources that I can possibly can. I had got resources when I came here from prison, from job to housing to benefits. Sure, we have a benefit officer that helps people with their benefits when they first come home, or even people who are home and and struggling to get them get their life together.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

So you you said it was very interesting as you were describing because people are going for jobs and that and they go for their GED and college prep here. Yes. But there are things you implied that there are things on their mind that don't come up. That don't come up when you're looking for a job like your relationship with your family. Yes. Your fear of the the fast-moving society. The fear of the fast-moving society. There are so many things that in re-entry uh y you know, uh I said it at the opening that there are very specific things at Fortune that people can identify with, finding a job, going to school, uh getting housing. The things that happen in the nest are uh you need to deal with to make those other things successful. Sure. That if if you have a lot of fears or or doubts about yourself when you're going for a job interview and you're worrying about your relationship with your family, it it it it it hampers it.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Well, well, I bel I I believe that in the nest. Like like David said, it's a space where most people that comes in there, once they sit into our goose, that they see the safeness of that space and they see the help that they can get when they get in there. But just by listening, they can identify. A lot of us identify with with all the strives and struggles that we go through in life. So when we get in the nest, once these they see how people respond to giving them the help or making them feel comfortable, we always welcome people when they come because we know we know the day is it's a struggle today with the mental health. It's a struggle today with how the, it's a struggle with people getting a job. The employment workshop, they have a we have a wonderful employment workshop, and everyone, including myself, went right from the employment workshop after come after coming home from doing a couple of decades and went right into work, right into the job field. So I'm always encouraging someone that you can do it. I always encourage even Mr. Delhi, Mr. Delhi closed the brother that I'm ahead with, he can, he could attest to that. I stayed on him from day one when he first came in and the group and shared what he was going through. And I always encourage him that listen, you can do what you can do what you set your mind to.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

You gave him a good intro. But you and you said, Tony, that a lot of the people who come into the nest and get and benefit from the people there come back and then be, then they're the they're the wisdom givers.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

They're the wisdom givers, that's right. They they they share their experience of what they got when they came, and that's the help that they got from the from the I'm gonna say from that family. We call ourselves a family. That's from that family, yeah. They they get real comfortable with helping people when they come in that nest, because we definitely as a family.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

You know, it's interesting. When people come to the Fortune Society, I'm sitting down to the desk, they say, Why are you here? They say, I'm looking for a job, I'm looking for housing. Nobody has ever come in here and say, Oh, I came here because I want to go to the nest. That's something they find. So, Mr. Delacouse, Jose, if I may. Yes, how are you doing? I first met you, you were sitting in with the group that I sat in on. I love sitting in on the nest groups. W when you came to Fortune, what why did you come? And then how did you get end up at the nest?

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Well, when I came fr when I came from the street to Fortune, um I did have a crime. I wanted to get back into the work field, and it was a little difficult with felonies, and here we're taught. You were looking for a job. Yeah, we we're taught how to handle things about felonies, how to handle getting back to work, how to get back into social society. You did you did the job uh the uh You did an internship here? No, the job readiness program, the three weeks. But you you didn't come in, you didn't know about the nest. No, no, I first went to the nest.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Did you just drift by the room and say what's going on here, or did you what happened?

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Uh it was recommended by one of the shelters I was staying at, and they told me if I wanted to go to Fortune Societies, there's a few different organizations, but the name Fortune Society caught my attention, you know, because I do want to get into my fortune in life.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

And um the nest did But the Nest is just a room. No uh when you when you when you came here you're looking for a job, what made you go into that room? Because when I go by this 15, 18 people, they're tops, and there's hundreds walking around all over the place. So why why did you go to the nest?

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Well, there's different different sessions in the nest where we talk about uh drug addiction. Yeah, but why did you go in to start with? To get back into social to be social again, to get comfortable with me.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

Did you walk by and say what's going on here?

SPEAKER_02 9:16

No, actually, the uh lady who did my uh intake she offered me to go to the nest so I can ready myself to get back into society. So so what Tony talked about, what worked for you? The whole group worked for me. When you come from outside, you're in survival mode, you're not really thinking about yourself. We learn to be individuals here and we learn to worry about ourselves and worry about things accordingly. You were living in a shelter and you were unemployed. Yes. What's your situation now? Now I have a voucher. I'm looking for an apartment. I did the internship here, I'm doing my GD here. Um the Nest has taught me a lot. I did an internship as well.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

Looking forward to work here one day, but if not, what are the what are the topics that the Nest do you when you go in there? Do the does Tony say today we are talking about, or do people just say talk about what's on their minds?

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Well, every different hour of the day there's a different group, relapse prevention. We have um relapse prevention is for people who have been addicted.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

And what do you do? How do I what how do you have a state of mind? Yeah, relapse prevention, everybody has different opinions. Sometimes there's arguments, but it's always peaceful. Disagreements. Yeah, we all respect each other's opinion, and um usually the the person running the group they they handle everything accurately.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

What what worked for you in the group? What it was can you think of any one discussion where suddenly a light bulb went off?

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Um you want to stay in the nest. It's like being with mama. You want to stay in the nest, although the Fortune Society is like a mall of support. There's all kind of rooms, people usually read the sign on the doors, they go inside curious about what's going on. Um we have breaks and you get to, you know, see what kind of help you need. Do we have HRA, GED programs, uh construction programs, and if not here, they lead you somewhere else. And it's very supportive, a very supportive place.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

Tony brought up relationships with the family. That's not something that you get at job training or GED. Has has that discussion been fruitful for you?

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Definitely. Um relationship with the families, you know, a lot of people come from broken families, and we learn to, you know, the to survive, to deal with things a new way. An addiction, you burn a lot of bridges, don't you? You burn a lot of bridges, but you learn to to get back on your to build up the bridges.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

Tony, you d when when you come in, do you have set in your head, today we're going to talk about this? Do you hear something on the news and say, oh, that's something we can talk about?

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Or Yeah, well we we have a structure in there. We have a structure. Like we have, like I said, a structure. We have different groups that address different different uh avenues. But for example, this morning our group started at 10 o'clock, and the topic of the group was pathway to peace. So we world peace or peace in your head. This pathway to peace and your soul, peace in your life. So we so we deal with issues like that. We we want to hear, what are you doing to have peace in your life?

SPEAKER_03 12:29

And I would imagine somebody brings up something in the middle of the discussion that re-re reroutes the reroute.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Sure, we have sure we always have someone that's we we we would I would say the devil advocate. They wanna they want to talk about something besides what we have on the agenda. But being that we are open-minded in there and we're always prepared to hear the participants out, we even may we may even sidetrack for a little bit just to see what he got going on. We want to know what what you're dealing with. What can we what kind of advice can we give you? What can we what can we tell you to do? What kind of resources you need so you can get that pathway, you can get that piece that you need.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

I don't know if you'll remember yeah, I'm sure you will remember this. There's something that came up at the NASA at the nest, and I said, This doesn't happen in programs anywhere. And that was, you were in a discussion, I said, What is this all about, Tony? And you said, we have a new participant, he's coming in, and he has no hygiene. Nobody wants to sit next to him because he's unwashed. And I said, Well, you know, a lot of my reaction was many of the people that come to Fortune have been bro raised in the state, and they never had a mommy or a grandmother saying, you should take a bath every day, you should take a shower. They survived in shelters and and and then and you had that incredible task of I remember you saying to me, we don't want to scare him off by challenging his hygiene. So you weren't gonna do it in the group. In the group, you wanted to get him privately. Probably, yes. How do you uh uh uh uh how do you go about you see that's something in the net like that at the nest wouldn't happen anywhere else. If you were in a in a in a class and somebody stank, people would say, I don't want to sit next to her, and then they you know Sure, and we deal with that.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

We deal with that on a daily basis because we we understand that we understand the condition of the people, right? People come here that's in shelters, are homeless, they're sleeping on the train, and we understand that. So to address that most of the time, to keep a per that make a person feel comfortable, I like to always like pull a person away from the group setting and then, you know, aid him and whatever he needs. Like we have we we have hygiene kits on the site here. We have hygiene kits for them. They can get toothpaste, they can get deodorant, they can get soap, they can get samples.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

So that wasn't just that one time you fit you face that frequently. We've we face this here practically every day. Do people respond? Of course they respond. Have they ever been confronted about their hygiene before? Sure, sure. I mean before here, do people say, what do they say, you stink and then move on?

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Well, uh I don't we wouldn't we wouldn't deal with it in that in that frame. So, but I I'm I I know a lot of them, a lot of them are grateful. A lot of them are grateful when when they do come and I pull them to the side of one of the other pairs, or even even Brother Bella Cruz that that he he worked with us as an intern and he understands the condition of the people. So when someone's like that, it may be a time if I'm doing something that I'll make I may call him and say, yo, Jose, listen, this idea, you know, this dude needs some help right here. Listen, go and go in the office and speak to them, let them know that you need a hygiene kit and you know, you know, be easy with them, like, you know, yeah. Make them feel comfortable.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Jose, when I first met you, you were living in a shelter.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

Uh so you were aware of all the problems of people who come to fortune or just generally that living in a shelter. Hygiene. Hygiene. Um how did you deal with that? Uh are there showers in the shelter? People don't know about shelter life.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

There's showers in the shelter. People are very scared even to be in the shelter. There's a lot of things going on in the shelter that people don't want to deal with stealing and uh a lot of drug use, a a lot of, you know, criminals together in one place.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

Is it possible to be living in the shelter and then come to a place like uh the nest and then go back to the shelter and then come back? That must be c quite a contrast for you.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

I learned when your mind is set on getting right that you're you're gonna get it right. So your goal was to get out of the shelter. Yeah, my goal was to get my life together, get it right. You know, no crime, no no drugs.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Tony and other people uh do you confide in them? Do you feel comfortable sharing?

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

Did it take time before you reach that?

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Um no, he has such a big heart, Tony, and a lot of the people at the nest have a huge understanding to professional people that have been justice impacted.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

Do you see people coming in that are very resistant that they don't share and they don't talk?

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Yeah, but it it reminded me of how I was in the beginning when I first came in as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

How do you break people down who I'm sure you know when somebody comes sits there and doesn't say a word and you don't like I I like to do this here when a person comes new and I know they feel it out or they feel uncomfortable. They this is their first time in the space. Like we don't like to put I don't put pressure on them. Like we going around in the room and we going on the topic, and when we get to the person, I'll always make them feel comfortable. Like, listen, if you don't feel like sharing right now, you know, we'll come back. So y'all, whenever you feel comfortable enough to share, yeah, we we're here. You you we we we are here with open ears.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

The dynamic of that, I've seen it at the Ness, is that there'll be 10 or 12 people that have been coming there and they greet each other and they hug and they're chatting comfortably, and then you know who the new person is because they're sitting there. Not only are they silent, but I'm sure they feel like I don't belong here because everybody seems to like each other and know each other. But you you have an antenna out.

SPEAKER_00 18:29

Yes, comfortability. Like I love comfortability, so when I see a person like that, I try to break the break the icebreaker for me is to introduce myself to them. And and and you know, uh explain to them what we do here and then that's and let them let them know. Like you hear what what everyone that that's going through some of the same trials and tribulations you're going through in life right now. So, you know, don't don't be a f don't be, you know, ashamed. I don't be afraid to speak out. Like, you know, get get it out, let it go.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

One of the voice one of the worst things I heard, I don't know if it was you or somebody when I was sitting in the nest, was everybody has to move at their own pace. That because some people are coming new, it's gonna be weeks before they open their mouth, and others start yakking right away and you can't shut them up. Were you were you fast or slow at uh Jose?

SPEAKER_02 19:24

I wanted the help as soon as possible.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

No, but did you talk at all right away?

SPEAKER_02 19:28

No, in the beginning, no, I didn't have to warm up.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

Did you wonder about all these people hugging each other? Did you buy it?

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Um yeah, I I I checked out a few religions before I came here, and um this was really comfortable. Uh another thing that the nest is we touch we touch on real life um topics, right? That it feels like no matter how many people are in the room, when when we get to a topic that relates to you, you want to give something. You say, I got something to give, you know, and they give their opinion. So even the quiet person will speak. Or listen.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

Now, when the when people are coming in there, uh do you refer when from something they say, do you say, Oh, we have a job program here that you should have go to that, or go to the GED, go to the education program, or mental health. Uh, we have the Better Living Center.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Do you refer people to can you detect what their needs are and they're they're more likely to accept uh a direction from you because Yeah, most of the time, once a person opens up and starts speaking, they kind of it gives us an idea of what kind of assistance or what kind of help that they need. And and most and when that happens, you know, we take on we take on that job, like you take on that job, okay, let's gotta find a resource. If they have to go to see mental health, or if they have to go get benefit, or they want to further their education, or they want a job, like you know, we always give them the opportunity to let us know where they're at in life.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

Mr. Jose, who's talking about living in a shelter, are a lot of a lot of the participants living in shelters?

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Yeah, a lot of most of them. This is something that's great about this, that you bring this up, uh uh David. A lot of the people that come to our groups as in the shelters and we cherish when they get an apartment, they be so happy that they come and they share that they just got their apartment. And we can give it, we congratulate them, we let them know that, yo, listen, we've been as far as me for for sure. I'll let them know. Yeah, I've been praying for this this day to come, and I'm so glad because you can be at so much ease when you have your own space. It helps you.

SPEAKER_03 21:59

I don't know how people. Can go home at night after this city with this so complex and be in a shelter. I mean, you need that you need your own little castle, you know, your your path you need your place. You need that personal space.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Because it makes everything else so tough. So much it makes everything else so much easier. Once you have your personal spaces, like it's it gives you like a breast of fresh air.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

You can start making other moves in your life, do you know? One of the startling things I learned is that there are pr there is support for people to find housing who are homeless. That HUD, the Federal Housing Urban Development, says that when you come out of prison, you're not homeless because you've been someplace with a roof over your head. And and at least 50% of the people coming out of prison in New York are homeless. And many of them find their way here. And there's kind of a desperation.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Yes, it is. It is a desperation because I'm a prime suspect of that coming home homeless and not having some nowhere to go.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

Did you go to a shelter?

SPEAKER_00 23:12

No. Fortunately, I was blessed, you know, and the law covered me. I was able to one of my cousins, one of my female cousins, when I made the board, and I told her I was in Queensborough, and I told her, they said, unless I had a residence, that I would have to go to a shelter on the date when my date came for me.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

And you stayed with her?

SPEAKER_00 23:37

And she agreed that for me to sleep on her couch. I slept on her couch for two. I slept on her couch for two years. If I slept in a jail cell on a hard on a hard metal piece of whatever you call it, uh whatever you call it, for two and a half decades plus.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

So the sofa was easy.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Yeah, that's what do you got? That sofa was lovely. And then I got my own king-sized bed, my own bathroom, where I have my own kitchen. So you know You cook? Sure, I cook.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

I love cooking. So, Mr. De la Cruz, Jose, when I met you, you were in the shelter. Uh uh did you have to gear yourself each day to just get up and get out and to try and find something better?

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Well, in the shelters it is a process. You gotta see psychologists, you gotta see the meds, you gotta see HRA, you you at the shelter they have all this? Yeah, at the shelter you gotta go through certain um a certain order to get out of that shelter. You get to go to about three shelters before you s two shelters before you go to a a shelter where you stay before you get your voucher for your apartment. It's difficult. And if you're not ready, you you could easily drift into a a bad lifestyle. You know, you gotta you know, everything's on time. You get three meals a day, you got somewhere to sleep, somewhere to take a shower. They offer you socks and t-shirts and things like that. But if you're not decided to stop drinking or drugging or even committing crime, you'll just use that as a sleep spot. So the the nest was was the missing piece for you? The nest completed my life, yes. F Fortune Society completed me. You know, I was I was really already decided that I wanted my life to go in the right way.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

Well, I think most people that come here want something else, but I always remember a man who uh when he had come to Fortune, I said, Well, what was your pass? He said, Well, I had a drinking problem, and I wanted to stay sober, but I tripped over a match once and I bled for three years. And that tells the story. You can find excuses for why you uh go in, you know, why you pick up. Uh but if the system I I could imagine that people reach a state of mind saying, well, they don't care, so I might as well get high because nobody's gonna do anything, or don't doesn't care what happens to me. So that's a challenge for you over and over again.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

I think the best thing about fortune is that we have justice-impacted people working here, and they are aware staff people, and they're aware of you know the characteristics that a person has when they do want to succeed in life. And I'm part of the leadership team in the Nest, and in the Nest we're Nest Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_03 26:23

The Nest has a leadership team that's of the of the participants. Right. And and you meet with the new people?

SPEAKER_02 26:29

You we have meetings one time one time a week. We go to different places in the city, we go places to eat, and we talk about the groups and who looks like they want to move forward, who needs resources, who needs uh a therapist. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

You go you go share at a restaurant and go out together? Yeah. That's exciting. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Do you go other places? We go sometimes, we go to places to have a little fun and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

Well, you know, I I'm gonna tell you about theater tickets that we maybe we can get theater tickets for you all.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yes. You said that I just went to uh I just went to Lincoln Center with with Jamie, who runs the art department. Me and four, about six other uh uh uh employees and and uh what show did you see? We seen a uh uh uh uh uh a dance uh uh it was a dance theater in Lincoln Center where the show was pretty good, you know.

SPEAKER_03 27:29

Well, that's you can you see I learned a lot there. I didn't know about the leadership group. That's very exciting. Yeah, they have a leadership group. And that relieves some of your burden because, Tony, because the the participants assumed some responsibility.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

They took they took initiative, they took initiative.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

I may cry something.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

That was amazing for me for becoming part of the leadership. Somebody saw something in me and they said that, you know. Oh, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

I definitely have one.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

I'm not surprised that they saw it in you, Mr.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Well, you know, well, I when I came here, they had a leadership group up here. I think I don't I don't know if it was the ATI and ATI had a leadership group, and guys used to used to come to the building. They would go out and work in the community, and then they would come to the building twice.

SPEAKER_03 28:18

How many in your leadership group? Uh about seven. Yes. Well, I'm gonna do something about that.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Yeah, that's about all right.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

Well, this is this is wonderful. I I learned a lot, and I hope uh people tuning into the podcast about the Nest. Tony Lassain and Jose Delacruz, thank you so much. This was rich and rewarding. Thank you. Thank you, thank you for this opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

Thank you for this opportunity. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Give me one more chance to try and make it right. Give me one more go.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

Let me see the light. Thanks very much for joining this podcast. I'm your host, David Rothenberg. If you need more information, or if you'd like more information about the Fortune Society, check out our website. It's quite simply fortune society.org. Lot of information on it, as well as all of our podcasts.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Give me one more.