Bottle Rocket with Alena Sycheva Episode 43: Tom Renney

Tom Renney joins Bottle Rocket for a wide-ranging hockey conversation covering his coaching career with the Rangers, Canucks, Oilers, Red Wings and Team Canada.

Tom shares stories about coaching Sean Avery, Jaromir Jagr, Henrik Lundqvist, and John Tortorella, along with his thoughts on today’s NHL and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

We also dive into the Toronto Maple Leafs, Mitch Marner’s playoff success in Vegas, Auston Matthews, Craig Berube, Gavin McKenna hype, and whether Toronto’s culture can truly change moving forward.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Hi everyone, welcome back to Bottle Rockets. I'm Elena here with Maeve, Jerry, Alan. And today we have a longtime NHL coach, Tom Rennie. Nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

My pleasure, Elena. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_04 0:25

Well, Tom, Tom, uh right now there are so many stories breaking. I just want to know what you make of the Maple Leafs situation, whether you uh are in the group like my buddy Steve Simmons, who thinks the recent hirings is a disaster. What you what do you think of what's going on there?

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Um well it's uh I know one thing, Stan, and I don't know if I ever shared this with you, but 1996, I think, I interviewed for the May Police job with Stan with uh Cliff Fletcher. And I also had Vancouver and Phoenix going on at the same time. And um my parents were still alive, living in British Columbia. Pat Quinn was in Vancouver, Cliff in in Toronto, and I couldn't have gotten two better people to to talk to about the game, but I decided not to go to Toronto. And um within about the same time frame, Mike Murphy and myself were um, I had almost identical records, and we were both fired within the next uh within the next year. Uh it's a tough place to work. It's a very, very tough place to work. It's very close scrutiny. Um, it doesn't matter what the what this what the sport is, for example. Um, but I, you know, I I guess like any, I don't want to consider myself a politician at all, but I guess time will tell. I I I know that we're very much into analytics and data and gathering as much information as we possibly can. And I and I like that as long as the menu um is not so long that we're it's gets so convoluted we don't know even what we're doing. So I'm hoping that you know what they have in place will work. I have all kinds of times for for Matt Sandeen. Stan, Alan, you'll remember when he was in New York and we were actually talking potentially about him coming to New York as a free agent at one point in time. And and so I have all kinds of time for Matt Sandeen. I think he's a wonderful human being. I think he brings a face to um you know to the organization. I I do not know the depth of his competency in those terms, but from a public perspective point of view, I think it's a great hire. I don't know Chaka Chika at all. Uh, I've never met him. Um I know what how Steve feels about this, uh, and I know Steve well enough to know that he calls it like he sees it. And uh that's one man's opinion, and I don't think he's alone.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Can we go to your uh junior career in in Kamloops? Uh you had uh so much success as a as a junior coach, and then you went to the national team. Um what uh you know, did you play the game when you were a kid? Like you you obviously had to play. Uh, how far did you make it playing?

SPEAKER_01 3:15

I I played uh junior hockey in my hometown of Cranbrook, and then went to Medicine Hat and ultimately to Vernon, and I never stayed in any one place because I thought that I'd have to go back to Cranbrook, get my education, go to school. So I did play some junior. I did go uh attend the University of North Dakota, Jerry, but I never played. Um I was the stopper, and I think you know what that means. I stopped the defenseman from bumping into the forwards on the bench, and um, and so I didn't play a lot there, but I had enough experience as a player to, you know, I think know what I what I was talking about. My my wife and my in-laws um are the Gare family from Nelson, and um so Glenn's father, Ernie, had a big impact on me for what he had done with young players and people growing up in the game. And I um I can recall uh uh my minor hockey banquet, Jerry in Cranbrook, BC. Uh it was I was 12 years old, and Father David Bauer came to speak at our minor hockey banquet. And at that time, everyone, he was he was with the Canadian national men's team and you know, trying to participate in the world championships and the Olympics, et cetera, et cetera. And um, he spoke at our banquet, and I was I was hooked right then and there, and I was 12 years old. I still was pursuing my playing career, but I knew at some point in time I wanted to coach, and I wanted to coach Canada's national team and Canada's Olympic team. So Kamloops came available to me through a good friend Ken Hitchcock, who you know, Jerry. And um, he said he was leaving to go to uh I think it was either Syracuse or Kalamazoo or Philadelphia. And he said, I I wonder if you're interested in taking my job here at Calloops. I said, Yeah, I am. So I went to Kamloops and um thank goodness for a great uh management team and Bob Brown. Um, you know, I just uh I just really had success. And then of course I had people like Scott Niedemeyer, Darryl Sador, Corey Hirsch, uh, you know, people that could play. And I had a great assistant coach in Don Hay himself, who had played and coached uh quite a bit in the National Hockey League, and and the rest is sort of history. After the Memorial Cup win, I was sequestered by Hockey Canada to come and coach the men's national team and the way you go.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

Scott Niedemeyer was with us for a long time in New Jersey. Uh, a very good friend of mine, just because he's you know, he'd been there so long. I was just a great guy. When you had him, how good did you think he was going to be as a big leaguer?

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Uh I thought he was going to be an outstanding player. Uh I did not, I did not know at that point in time Stan Hall of Fame career or or anything like that, but I I knew how good he was. He's from Cranbrook, and he and his brother Rob. And so I watched them play as little people. And they were wonderful skaters, um, taught how to skate by their mother, um, and and Carol, and a great, great teacher of that, of course. But I I knew that he was going to be a great player. Um, what cemented that for me was when we got both he and Daryl Sador back on December 1st of 1992 from the National Hockey League, New Jersey and LA specifically, and uh we were we were on our way. We I thought for sure we were Memorial Cup contenders, and um we were, I think, rated first overall the entire year, which scared the heck out of me. And then when Daryl and Scotty showed up, I thought, okay, we're we're good to go. And then coaching against him, coached him in world championships, coached him in the world junior, uh, outside of Camloops, you just you marvel at that. And and you know, the the move that he made that looked so much like coffee, um, you know, end-to-end, and and it was just you know, you just knew the man had he had greatness written all over him. And and Stan, you're right, a terrific human being, just a wonderful guy, and um yeah, still working a little bit with Anaheim now.

SPEAKER_04 7:31

I'm asking you this question because it's related to uh a negative about Scotty, uh negative in quotes, really. But what what was the what what as a coach, what did you criticize him for? What was his flaw?

SPEAKER_01 7:50

This is a this is good. This is a good question, Stan. Um, it just came too easy for him. He would come out and and practice, and you know, he would be doing different, you know, just you know, going through drills, half speed, which was pretty much full speed for everybody else. Uh, never disinterested, but kind of just going through the motions. And I told him one time, I said, Scotty, why don't you go ride the bike for a while? Um, because we're just you know, we're out here wasting time. That that was it. Honestly, it was it, it was just so easy for him to do anything. I played him, I played him at forward a few times, and and uh he racked up points there just to just to change it up for him to keep it interesting.

SPEAKER_04 8:32

There's a story in Frank Boucher's great book, When the Rangers Were Young, that's related to uh Nidemeyer. It's a great story because they had a great line. Um, it was called the Bread Line, Alex Shabicke with the Colville brothers, Mac and Neil. And in the book, Frank tells how Shabikki would be tearing down the right side, and the guys on the bench would be yelling, shoot the puck, Shabicke, shoot the puck, Shabicke. And then when he didn't, they say, Oh shit, Shabicke. So so here's so here's the so here's the relation to Scotty Niedemeyer. Me and my my Larry Gaines, I worked with on the TV thing for years, and we both felt the same way back, maybe two or other guys on the on the crew. Scotty Niedemeyer would take the puck and he'd start coming up ice. He could do anything he wanted with the puck, and then he'd get to the opposition blue line, and we're waiting for him to make the great play. And when he gets over the blue line, it's like he's trying to think about pitching a tent there and shoot the puck. Scotty crying out loud. I don't know how many more points he would have gotten. I don't know what he liked about that little spot over the opposition blue. And maybe, maybe he thought there was some gold there underneath the ice.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

A great story about Scott. This is the Memorial Cup in Seattle, and we're playing uh Teddy Nolan's team for and a great team from the Sioux. Uh Sioux St. Marie, that is Alina. And and uh there's 14 seconds, about 20 seconds to go in the game, and one of our forwards goes in to shoot the puckers, whatever, falls down, hits the boards, the opposition player spears them in the stomach, and so he comes off the ice and he's crawling off the ice. In the meantime, there's a three-on-two the other way, and uh, and actually it was a three on one, and Scott's the only defenseman back, and he poke checks the player with the puck, gets the puck. Those three guys are going one way. He looks up at the clock, skates just far enough to get over the blue line, just you know, just kind of takes a couple of strides over the blue line, hits the guy that I put on the ice to replace the person coming off the ice, tape to tape, went in and scored 14 seconds to go when we won the Memorial Cup. How many people would have the confidence to just play it three on one like it's a like a one-on-one? Take the puck, look up at the clock. I better get over the blue line so it's not a two-line pass, and he feathers it in there and we score.

SPEAKER_04 11:20

He felt he felt constrained. I don't know whether he's uh he ever articulated it, because Lou Lamarello, who I love and who is one of the great people in hockey, because he taught me a little uh expression, do what's right and do it now. My father was do what's right and and or don't do it at all. But Lou wanted defense uppermost, and Lou was, of course, the emperor, and the uh the coaches, uh Jacques Lemaire, everybody said he was the greatest coach they ever had, and Jacques was more disciplined in terms of defense. And I think that Nita, I think that Niter uh uh kind of felt a little bit uh tied down. But I I I have to send him a note and say, was there gold under the ice of the blue line that you were that land for sale that you uh, what the hell are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's for sure. I maybe that's one of the reasons he came back in December to to play some junior hockey and just have some fun and and basically do whatever he wanted to do, no matter who the coach was.

SPEAKER_04 12:41

One last story, uh, because we loved him. You know, how can you not love this guy? Yeah. So uh when he was in his prime, I used to be, I was used to, I was a musician and I knew a lot of songs, and I found out that there was a tune that I felt was perfect. It was perfect. It was a Stan Kenton tune called Artistry and Rhythm. Now, what better thing for Nita? He was an artist and he was in rhythm. So I brought the I brought the uh record down and I gave it to him, and he uh gave a look at it, and I think when he looked at it, he saw that spot on the blue line.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

That was a tap for him.

SPEAKER_06 13:31

That's great.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

Tom, Rangers fans once created uh Ranger line generator because of all the line changes. Looking back, what was the thinking process behind constantly shuffling the lines?

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Um, well, I've watched probably 40 years of hockey prior to that and saw that everybody did it. So you know what? When you Alina, you know, you know the sport. Um, you know, there's certain people that are going, certain guys that aren't quite yet. Um, you know, people like Scotty and Keenan, they they just knew who had it had it going that night, you know. And it's uh I'd love to tell you there's a science behind it. It's not, it's as much uh intuition or a gut feel um as anything. I think if I remember right, Peter Prucha was a pretty popular player in New York. And Peter seemed to be the one that always kind of bounced around. Um, but that's because he worked so hard. And and he had opportunities where he scored a lot and others where he didn't quite, but but he always trusted him no matter who he was with to get the job done and play hard. Uh that that's that's one of those things for sure. And I think it's a bit of a parody, if I'm not mistaken. Um, but I you know, I think every coach does that, Elena, to a to a to a point. You know, you you you know might not mess around too much with your defense pairs, but um, you know, you have an opportunity to have that feeling, you know, who's going, who isn't. Um, you know, you look at synergies between two people and who's the third one that might fit in and and and work best with that, or or you know, two that aren't going and who can kind of jumpstart them. You know, so there's all kinds of reasons for those those line changes. Um, I don't want to tell you it was a crapshoot. It was, you know, it was you know based on at least observation, if not back then, um, analytics, but there was enough to know who was going and who wasn't. But quite honestly, it's just trying to get that blend of you know who's going, who isn't, um, who can utilize this player to elevate their line, um, who can we help play with this player to elevate that person's game, uh, you know, and and I I've always been somewhat bothered by lines one through four and matchups and all those types of things. And and I never really liked matching if I could ever help it. Um, but when you're coaching the Canadian Olympic team and you're going against the next facsimile of the green line, uh in a six-nothing 10 minutes into a game, you start to kind of move your people around a little bit. So I think that's the ultimate genesis for me of you know, changing line combinations and moving people around a little bit to find the right blend.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

As a ranger coach, who is your favorite player, favorite ranger while you were coaching, and your least favorite?

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Hmm. Well, I love all my players. I, you know, I hope that doesn't come across as you know anything other than what I intend it to be. I just have a lot of time for for the players. And that's a you know, for me, it um, you know, it I had a clear conscience at night. Um, I I do believe that uh I think at least that players, when they're respected, have a tendency to reciprocate that. So I always tried to do that. I I think the one that probably I you know there's too many to name, but I I really enjoyed Henrik. Uh I really enjoyed Yarmour. Shani was was great. I loved the like the Ryan Hallwigs, the blue-collar guys for sure. Um, they know the Jed Ortmeyers. Uh I I love those guys. I loved Jason Strudwick. I loved um I loved Merrick Malik. Uh there aren't many, to be honest with you, Stan. I'm trying to think of someone. I don't know if I disliked them or if they just got me mad more often than the others. I uh I can't really tell you who that was. I had a great DPH appreciation for Colton, Colton Orr, and you know, and what he brought to our lineup and what he was able to do for guys. And and I was proud of him because he when he came to us, he was maybe a minute and 28 minutes a night time on ice in Boston. And I and I told him, I said, Colton, listen, I'm not gonna tell you to fight. You know that better than I do. You know when, where, and how, if that's something that's necessary. I'm never gonna tell you to fight, but I am gonna help you be a hockey player. And um, if you remember back, guys, um Colton was out against Sidney Crosby just about every time we played them in the garden. And he, you know, Colton had to be a hockey player to do that, and uh, you know, and I think we got his minutes up to eight or nine minutes a night, which which I know he appreciated, and I am proud of that because I you know I followed through on what I hoped I was gonna be able to do for him. I I don't know, gosh, I don't know, Stan. I there's only one player that I can remember that I kind of disliked because he was just he didn't give us everything he could have, and um he I'll just say he was in Edmonton and shall remain nameless.

SPEAKER_06 18:35

I have a follow-up Ranger question, Tom. I know we've talked about this 2005-6, your favorite year, 100 points. What's Illustrator picks the Rangers last coming out of the lockout? Team's doing so many special things. Do you have a favorite moment, favorite game, favorite something of that seat, that 100 point season?

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Well, you know, again, Al, it's a bad, bad answer. But that as a collective, that group was so much fun, and they just loved coming to the rink, they loved each other. Um, I didn't have a problem if you were speaking any language, you know, you know, be do do what makes you comfortable, you know. And and but when we're together, we're gonna we're gonna speak English and and do our thing. But I had no problem. We had Finns, we had Russians, we had Czechs, we had Slovaks, we had the whole nine yards, and and it was great. People felt respected and required and relevant. Um, I I would tell you what the fans did at the end of the year after the playoffs were done. Um, and I've I love the stick raising, the stick salute. Uh you know, just enormous. Um, you know, I I love I love sweet Carolina beautiful, love it, still have fond memories. But I'll tell you that when the fans stood up and give it gave a team a standing ovation after losing four straight, and they gave that team a standing ovation. I I was so proud of that that team and very, very proud to be coaching the Rangers in front of a group of people like that. That that was a major highlight for for me personally.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

What is your uh coaching philosophy? Um uh in my working life, I've been a boss a few times, and my my philosophy was always everybody has a button to push, my job to find that button and push it. And uh I imagine coaching is much the same way, but uh are you in the mode of my way or the highway, or do you kind of adjust yourself to your team?

SPEAKER_01 20:40

I try to be consistent, Jerry, as you would know all about that. I I certainly try to be consistent in who and what I am, and and um, you know, as much as we like to think so, you you you you know, you don't treat everybody the same. You treat them well, you respect them, you know, and you make sure that that's front and center. Beyond that, to your button point, you you've got to know what that is, um, you know, for sure. But you've got to be sincere, you've got to be consistent, um, you've got to make sure that there's a level of accountability and responsibility within your group to the point where, you know, if someone needs to hear it, uh, you're not selective as to who it is, it doesn't have to be the fourth line guy, it can be Yarmory Agar, you know, for example. And and I think I'm good with that, but at the same time, I've never ever believed in humiliating a player into playing better, you know, or being condescending behind the bench and you know, yelling at a group on the ice so that these 15 guys are sitting here thinking, geez, what's he saying when I go out there? Um, I I've never I've never been that that kind of coach. I think I'm collaborative. Um, you know, I so I I think I I think I'm a bit of a hybrid. Um, and I don't know if I'm a transformational coach as the as the cliche would say nowadays, but I do know that in Vancouver, um, I had some pretty talented people.

unknown 21:59

Um

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Uh tell me that I was ahead of my time. And so that might suggest that uh maybe too collaborative, too early. Um, but I can tell you the one thing for sure is that uh uh I I was consistent in my care for the players.

SPEAKER_04 22:15

You want to come back as a coach in the NHL?

SPEAKER_01 22:19

I'm 71, Stan.

SPEAKER_04 22:22

So what? 94.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

I want to coach too. I knew you were gonna say that. And and and but I haven't been 94 yet, so I'm not sure. Um I you know what, Stan? Strange as it might sound, I I would. I would, and I would I would come back as a president, I'd come back as a general manager, and I would come back. That's how good I feel. Um, but my time is done, and it's somebody else's turn, and I'll just support. Do you have an agent? I've never had an agent.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

Well, get one.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

You're the man's.

SPEAKER_04 23:01

There gotta be agents who are out of work, you know. I mean uh you'll help the you'll help the Canadian economy. I was gonna say, I'll help them stay out of work. I okay, I gotta tell you, I it's about time. I got I became a Maple Leaf fan in 1942 at the age of 12, and I became more and more intense when uh it came to 46-47, and we won the Stanley Cup against all odds. I went berserk. We won it again in 48 with Max Bentley, maybe the greatest team of all time. I don't care what anybody in Edmonton, the little village of Edmonton, thinks. And then in uh 4849, the team was under 500. You listening? Under 500, and we won the cup. First team never win three cups in a row. So, and my intensity as a Leaf fan continued until after the 51 playoffs when my hero Bill Barilko disappeared. Uh, but uh the Maple Leafs, of course, I went to work for the Rangers in publicity in 54-55, but the love for the Leafs never left me. And then it came punch himlock, another great era, three cups in a row, and then they won the last cup in 47. To see what's happened to this team that I loved so dearly is not fun. It's beyond, you know, the the leafs were a good joke, they're no joke anymore. And they're the most richest team in the entire league. Leafs first, then come the Rangers, and and Vancouver's another uh rich team. Why are these rich teams failures?

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Why? Well, I think what's happened is that there are teams that have now recognized uh how how much talent is out there. Uh it's young talent, young legs. I I do believe that, you know, as much as we'd like to think so, it's not an exact science, but scouting is the lifeline of your of your organization. Um, and I think that you know you have to really make sure that your scouting staff is as strong as it possibly can be. You know how you what you want to put on the ice, you know what the, you know, and you do have to do this with with fans in mind, quite honestly. You know, you've got to give the fans something that they that they can be proud of. Um and then all and it takes winning, and that's that's the bottom line. But I think the teams that are doing well now have drafted well, they've not been afraid to integrate good young talent into their lineup. They've allowed them the chance to kind of morph into what they are, take the good with the bad, um, but ultimately flourish. Um, and I think sometimes we get into this recycle mode, uh, you know, that can be counterproductive, obviously. I think the teams that have the courage to put a young team on the ice is uh in the long run, and it is a long game for sure. And I think if you want to be a program of integrity, you have to think long term. You have to think long term and and identify with that that entire process, notwithstanding the fact, and I think you'll all remember this, we were a young team in Edmonton when I was there, and you know that that we were what we were. We'd had first-round picks, you know, consecutive years in a row, and we weren't we weren't quite there yet. And and so youth with a with a blend of experience that can still play is important, and making a decision on the older player that it's it's time. You know, we we we need to move you out of the way and and bring in and infuse the organization with uh you know, with young legs, uh young thinking, uh certainly a that that bridge athlete that'll help the young players morph into what they we all want them to be at the end of the day. And I and I do believe uh that every team needs to make sure that they have this strategic plan on what they want their team to look like, how they're gonna play. What yeah, when I was Stan, when I was in New York, when I was director player personnel, I had all of our scouts take two teams over the last eight Stanley Cup finals. And what they had to do was identify who the general manager was and his sort of his approach to the game, his mentality of how to build a team, who the coach was or coaches were and how they coached, um, what the rosters looked like and how they were put together through free agency, through drafting, through trading, whatever the case may be. And and so those eight, you know, I when you think about it, there's there's there's 16 teams, each scout had two teams, and then we sat down and back in the day on a whiteboard, we wrote down what made the New Jerseys great, New Jersey Devils great, what made the Colorado Avalanche great. And we just went through everything we possibly could, and then ultimately what we did is we built a ranger, we built the ranger person, player, and then and then we we kind of tried to scout as such. And you know, I'm not gonna tell you that's why we made the playoffs, you know, after seven years out, but it just seemed to give the co the scouts some purpose. Do you know what I mean? And it really helped them with some definition, you know, and and and really take it seriously and kind of be, you know, in a position where they had to kind of stand up and defend their work, um, which was which was a really good exercise and helped me a lot because I, you know, I was new here, I was new to this, and and so I got to learn how they thought, I got to learn how teams really and truly, outside of being a fan, you know, went to the Stanley Cup Finals. And um, yeah, we built a ranger, and that's when we started our development programs, um, you know, that we that we had done in Calgary at the University of Calgary. And and um first one was five weeks long, second one of four weeks long, and then the third one the NHLPA weighed in and said, We we you can't do that anymore. We'll give you we'll give you one week because we were ready to play.

SPEAKER_06 29:17

Were there any specific rangers drafted out of that out of that model that you guys developed? Anyone that emerged special?

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Yeah, like yeah, yeah, yeah. They were well Henrik was just just before it, but he came to the development camps. Um, and then we had uh well, all of them I can't remember who we drafted. Ryan Holwig was a also just a superstar in medicine hat, um, heart and soul, pound for pound player, could play with anybody and play it any way you wanted to. He he he was certainly one of them, Blair Betts, Jed Ortmeyer. Um uh oh, it's a while ago now, Al. Yeah, no, I I yeah, I I I wish I could rattle off 20 names for you. I can off the top of my head, but that was the plan for sure. And keep in mind it wasn't just those who we drafted, but we it all it also allowed us, as much as the draft is your lifeline, it also allowed us to look at the right free agents, you know, that would be that would be ultimately be a ranger, you know, and what it took to represent that city. And you know, and and not long after I started, uh, we had 9-11, you know, and and when actually when I took over coaching, I was very clear to our guys, listen, as you alluded to, uh, we were picked to finish 30th, you know, by Sports Illustrated, and 28th maybe was our was our our best number um of all of that. But what we did for sure was we we made a a real conscious effort to bring in free agents that would not just play but lead and play, and one in particular, as you all well know, in Yarmor, but Shani came in. Um, you know, these are people that could still play that brought those those kids along. And and we we we brought them in as rangers, we brought them in to be rangers, and and um even Avery Sean came in to be a ranger, and you know what, he did his job, he did his job, we played, you know, our our hearts out, and and um, you know, came up a little bit short, but as we all know, that's easier to change one than everybody else, and I'm okay with that. Is Avery hard to coach?

SPEAKER_03 31:29

No, I was asking the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

I'll tell you why. Um, first of all, I respected his ability to play, I respected that he, you know, he was an individual that had certain likes and dislikes. We'd have great conversations um, you know, about things that had little to do with hockey. Uh, and same with Yarmour. I we I just love those conversations with those guys, but I can tell you how important your leadership group is if within any team. Um, you know, and that includes even you know, in corporate in corporate the corporate world, whatever the case may be. If you've got those four or five guys, you know, that know where the hot spots are, and you know, you might just give them a nod or give them a, you know, give them one of these. They they they know, and and Shani was great with Avery. Shani was great with Avery, he was great with Brandon Dubinsky, you know, he he just you just knew that the message was getting to them loud and clear. And um, you know, and I I really tried hard not to overcoach. Um, I you know, I like every once in a while you've got to show your passion too from behind the bench. Um, and Aves was built for that. And uh, you know, he he he brought personality to our team as well.

SPEAKER_04 32:41

He thinks you're his favorite coach. I asked him. No, I'm not kidding. He loved you, he loved you as a coach, and yeah, as I told you. I think the guy is fabulous, funny guy, great head, he's an actor now, he writes books.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Yep, I agree.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

How about Henrik? He was still early in his NHL career with you, right? Did you immediately realize he was going to become special?

SPEAKER_01 33:07

You know, I I I did, Elena, and and what was good for me was um I mentioned the the development camps that we had in Calgary, and Henrik came to our first one, and and um, you know, he was still cutting his teeth, really, and hadn't cracked the lineup yet. And that and that was this was in the offseason, obviously. And I saw this guy move from side to side, I saw his level of compete, I saw the level of concentration on the next shot. Whether it was a in a in a you know practice and there was 15 shots coming to him one after the other, he was soul dialed into each shot. And then what made the difference for me, Elena, was um was Brent Benoit Alaire. And and very early in me getting to know Benoit and at training camp, he said, Tom, this is this is gonna be the guy. And Kevin Weeks was there, and and I and I had every intention of Weeksy starting the season for us, and um, and and so I and that's the way it worked. Kevin hurt his ankle, and Benoit said, then he said, Tom, this is it. And Henrik wrote the rest. And a good man, like another great, just another great conversation. We did we talked about stuff that maybe it didn't have anything to do with hockey directly, but indirectly it did. You know, about leadership and and respect, and what you know, what what do you love most in your life outside of hockey, and how is your family and where are you from? And talk about that. And then with my international experience, I'd been to a lot of these places where these guys were from, and and um I think it really helped you know bridge any kind of relationship.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Did it bother you that Henrik played so deep in his net?

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Not well, yes, until Ben told me, don't worry about it. Is it okay? But you know what? What's really interesting here, Jerry, is is Henrik was was our guy, and Benoit and I would sit down and we would look at the schedule, and we and he would say, Okay, Henrik play should play here, here, not here, uh, on the road against a team that we might have some trouble against. He won't play there, and he'll play here and not here, and then he'll play here, here, and here. And he would plot out the entire month of games that he thought Henrik should play, and those that he should a for rest, obviously, and be able to kind of rehabilitate and re-energize. Um, but also because of from the psyche of a goaltender, uh, you know, making sure that he was in a position to have success every time he stepped in the net. And, you know, it was uh Weeksy was it was a backup, Mike Dunham was a backup, you know. Yeah, and well, we had and we had some really good goaltending tandems there as well. And and uh, you know, I I yeah, Henrik was they were he was great. He was great. That's why I have a trouble, I have a tough time, Stan, when you ask me about who did I dislike because I I don't think I disliked, I really don't.

SPEAKER_04 36:08

I did I really pick a referee, let's get it over with gotta be a referee.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Well, you know what? This is funny. I don't have a referee that I didn't like, although I yelled at them once in a while. But they told me there was probably half a dozen of them that would come up to me and say, Tom, thanks for the way you treat us. He said, You you get a lot of respect from the from the referees, and uh, you know, we we we think we think you're top shelf. And I that was pretty good compliment, you know, because you don't hear that kind of stuff, and you do try to respect them because you want to get the call.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

Well, I didn't know you from Alfred E. Newman, and I want you to guess. I'm giving you five seconds to guess which guy in the world told me about Tom Rennie that this guy is gonna be terrific. I'm giving you five seconds. You give up? It was Tico Resch. Oh, yeah, Tico coached against him when he was in Tri-Cities. Yeah, great guy. He told me he loved you and he said, watch this guy. He's good, you're gonna love him and he's gonna be a success.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Well, I can tell you what, I the feelings mutual. What a great human. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:19

I can attest, I can attest to that too, because in the 2014 final I sought out the the handful of rangers that had been part of your teams. Henrik, Mark Stahl, uh Dominic Moore. Yeah. They raved. They just said how important it was to have a coach like you early in their career, early in their ranger career, what you instilled in them, and then a smile. As soon as I would walk over to Mark Stahl, he reminded reminded me that you visited his home when he was that kind of personal interaction impacted them, and here they are playing for the cup, but they're thinking of their first coach a lot.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_06 37:56

Great.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

You know, it's like, you know what, Alan? It's it's you just you're you're a proud father, and as much as many of them are closer to my age and further away from it, but just great humans, you know, good people. I don't know, I don't know any other way. And I, you know, I think I'm looking at three people that are or four people that are similar. You it's just don't know other any other way than to be yourself, respect people, and and you know, you you know, you heat you re put your soul at the end of the day, and and uh yeah, good people, those are great names, Al. These are just these are just fantastic people, and and uh so yeah, Chico was good. He was he was great.

SPEAKER_04 38:34

Hey Tom, Tom, we gotta get serious now. Okay, you owe something to the hockey world, and stop smiling. I'm being serious. But what you owe to the hockey world now is a book, and Alan Crater is right there to be your ghostwriter because he did a sensational book with Kenny Morrow. He did, which by the way, belongs into the Hall of Fame. Amongst others on this call. So you got to talk to this guy, Crater. He can he you can make a contribution by telling the world all about what your wisdom of hockey. I think the title is The Wisdom of Hockey by Tom Rennie. Don't let him off the hook, Alan.

SPEAKER_06 39:19

I won't. I won't. We've talked a bit about this concept.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Alan, I don't know what to say to that. They am gonna do it.

SPEAKER_04 39:26

What's the big deal? He's a nice guy, creator, won't hurt you.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

And I am I on the line, Alan?

SPEAKER_05 39:33

If I tell him what we're doing, yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

We're already working on it.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

I feel I must remind you guys that I wrote a book too.

SPEAKER_04 39:44

There you go. Well, get him to do it.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

He lives in the same you know, I and Tom. I sort of got I am a much gooder writer than Alan is. So keep that in mind, okay? I don't care how many Pulitzer Prizes he's won, I can I can write.

SPEAKER_04 40:12

Well, you can have two writers. You can have one on American side and one on Canadian side.

SPEAKER_07 40:18

There you go.

SPEAKER_04 40:19

The thing that Alan has over York, you know, this guy from BC. Alan is from Brooklyn. He speaks two languages, English and Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

That's what I miss most about New York. I love it. I love when people say, Where's your favorite place to coach? And I all I ever wanted to do was coach in the Olympic Games. It could have been in Timbuktu. I don't care. That's all I ever wanted to do. But that's why you know you end up with the career you you do because you you know you want so badly to do this, and when you when you reach that, that's just that's just part of the process. That's not it. You know, it it is what it took to get there. And and I'll tell you, I love New York. Glenda loved New York. We had a such a great time there, and uh Stan, Alan, I'll I'll never forget those interviews, I'll never forget those chats. I will every time I think you guys, I have a smile on my face, and and I don't know, those those jokes were those jokes. Those were before games, Stan.

SPEAKER_04 41:24

Well, what did it help you or hurt you? No, it was fantastic. Right in my wheelhouse, it was great. I loved it. I only did it with one other coach. Can you guess who it is? Uh in one of the three teams? It's taken too long.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

I was gonna say Torch. I was gonna say that, and then I thought, oh, yeah, Torch would like he would like that. He would like that.

SPEAKER_04 41:55

He was unbelievable. I would do it after he interviewed uh Sam Rosen would interview him on tape about the game, and then I was standing there, and if he liked the joke, he would say, you know, San, you are crazy. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:11

And if he didn't like the joke, then what?

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Crazier.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

Speaking of Torts, I watched the game yesterday and Mitch Marner scored a hat trick. He was pretty invisible in the playoffs when he played for the Leafs. Do you think Dortz brings out the best in Marner?

SPEAKER_01 42:31

I do. I I think, you know, I think Torts is a heck, heck of a coach. And I, you know what? You want to talk about good human beings? Torts is a great guy. A great, great guy. We we share texts every once in a while and and stay in touch. And this is a guy that replaced me there. But I don't, it that doesn't matter. That's inconsequential. The bottom line is that we are in the same thing, doing the same thing at the same time, and he's a great, great guy. But I do believe he's got that, you know. If you want to win a cup and get close to winning a cup, the way he coaches will get you there. But you have to have some pieces. There's no question. You have to have some pieces. Um, because I think Torch is the type of guy that he'll get you there quick for sure. But you but you but you better you better come through. And and and Torch knows that too. He he for himself even, he knows he's got to come through. I just think I think he's a great coach, great guy, and I'm not surprised. And he would have that kind of conversation with Mitch, that Mitch would respond well to, because he just respects out of Torres Torch for sure.

SPEAKER_03 43:40

And speaking of coaches, Baruby will probably stay another year with the leaves. Do you think adding someone like McKenna could really change things? Or if the coaching and culture stay the same, does it really matter?

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Uh again, it depends on what a leaf is. You know, what do you want? What's a Toronto Maple Leaf? You know, and what do the maple leafs need to look like?

SPEAKER_00 44:00

like and i think we've all seen what what what chief can do uh you know and he did it with st louis obviously i i think what he'll do if if this goes well for him he'll coach for another eight or ten years if he wants to but he will definitely definitely get guys ready to play in the national hockey league for a long time they will be pros for a long time um you know and i and i think that's this is where it gets a little goofy with me um you know and alan knows this because we've talked about it a few times uh my i i measure success definitely you have to by the scoreboard no question about that but i measure success by what it is you left behind for in a in a player um you know and if and if they go on to bigger and better things fantastic had a little bit to do with that if they go on to be great husbands and dads better um you know if they grow on to be great moms sisters partners fantastic that maybe that's why i lost jobs along the way because i because all i want to do is make sure the human being was everything they could be and um i think i think i think craigrubi will do that for the players in toronto when you got to the national you you were with the canucks you had you had mcilnie and burray and ojick and brashier and even troy crowder for a while to to protect so how did you handle having two superstars is as i remember uh it didn't work it didn't work having them both on the same team like i guess we needed sergey fedorov too but uh so how yeah how how how did you handle though those superstars those those guys who are gazelles you know they're just yeah thoroughbreds you know and how how difficult was it to handle those guys you know this is what when and i when i do talks i have no qualms talking about where i where i messed up and i and i you know for me jerry i had come from uh the national team and the olympics and world championships and things like that where you had this you know they you you had the either you had a you had players that wanted to get where you could take them or had been and just wanted to finish it up properly these guys were already there they were in the National Hockey League and great at it and so I was you know as I mentioned earlier maybe a little bit the flavor of the week for a coach um and so I went to Vancouver pretty sure myself very confident had done some good things thanks to some great managers and great teams and I thought I was doing really well the first six weeks were great um and then I I could sense that things weren't going that well and I think where I dropped the ball there was a bit of a division in our dressing room um not on and most have that you know where you got to work at it to to help it you know help it work and um I can tell you that I don't think I understood the NHL player like I needed to I don't think I understood that you know uh like the 75 80 minute practice is a sort of a dinosaur look at the game uh the drills the the practices were great we did lots of great things comments were great all that was just super but then I forgot about you know they needed they needed time away from the rank they needed time to go um you know be with their families they needed to be able to have the freedom to be men in this case and not everything was uh you know had to align with what was happening on the ice and so I think what I did is I underestimated the needs of these players um you know beyond beyond coaching because I was into it and intense and driven and we were gonna we were gonna make this happen and one of the best people uh you know that I've ever met in Pat Quinn Quinn gave me a chance and so I you know I and I and I think I messed up I I don't know that I handle it very well.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Those that understood me and understood my approach um you know that would sit and you know offer up a conversation were great but guys like Pav we talk tennis um very seldom we talk about hockey for Elmo we talk about you know why he didn't like flying why he had to sit in the cockpit and those types of things um you know and and and there was a real there was a there certainly was a divide in that group and then when Mess came along you could see where mess was really watching to see the ebb and flow of this dressing room and where it was going. And you could tell that um you know that Mark was not as effective as he needed to be either and then that's when Mike came in Mike Canaan. So I I think I underdelivered uh and I and I do believe and I think it was whatever three three or three more years or whatever before they made the playoffs again under maybe that would have been Crow probably I guess they can it would have been yeah it would have been um Mark Crawford um you know so I mean that yeah I don't I don't think I delivered the way I should and then of course with that knowledge and that's you know that's what Craig's getting in Toronto now Elena is just this is how it works here um you know with that knowledge and subsequent to that I ended up in in New York and you know made we did you know we did pretty good we did pretty good in New York and you know I think I I took those learnings and uh did everything I could to continue to just be myself and care but understand these players needed to the rink needed to be a destination somewhere they wanted to get to not something they had to had to go to I don't really like Baruby's dump and case system. So maybe you should come to coach the leaves and save us there there's there's lots of people that can save the leaves Selena and you might even have the guy you need there right now we'll give him a chance what do you think of the new management?

SPEAKER_03 49:43

There's been a lot of discussion around it so what's your opinion?

SPEAKER_01 49:47

Well I'll start at the very top I have lots of time for Keith Pelley. I think Keith's a great guy I think he's a great man I think he's an intellect I think he's a visionary I think he's got a lot of courage and you need that in Toronto. I think he's got a plan for sure I I do believe that I as I mentioned before I I from a GM's position I just don't know Chica well enough to to comment on him. Matt's I think as a sort of a face of the Leafs I I I I think can work and I think when it gets out to you know to talk about the virtues of the Leafs and and and what they're planning on doing in this year and the years to come I think he's the perfect guy to talk to that I think he's the perfect guy to talk to young talent.

SPEAKER_03 50:32

He'll be very good um you know with McKenna uh I think he'll really be helpful to him um you know so I I you know the jury's out but the but but but the jury's always in in Toronto do you think the leaves should keep Matthews or just rebuilt completely around McKenna yeah McKenna's too young to take that load by himself.

SPEAKER_01 50:58

I can remember Stan I don't know if you remember this but I didn't give I didn't have a captain my first year in New York and uh you know Anyarmous was going to be our captain but he you know what he he said to me he said Tom thanks he says I don't want that no he says I I just want to go play I don't want I want to enjoy the Rangers I want to enjoy the city I want to I I don't need that on my jersey I just want to go play hockey I said no problem so we went with three A's and I I think Austin Matthews is a great player I really do and I've witnessed that as a youngster from the age of 16 up to now I think he's a great player um I I under I I know it's very very hard to be a captain and quite honestly um it's very hard to be an American captain in a Canadian city uh and I think it's a very it's very hard to be an American captain in Toronto or Montreal. I really I really believe that uh and I think that with that being said I'd like to see I'd like to see them keep him uh if they're if they're going to do anything with him they better get an awful lot for him because he's a great player but what they need to do is fortify the leadership group um where he's a part of that for sure uh but take as much of the load off of the leadership uh of him as they can without taking the C off taking the C off his jersey that's just a that's just my opinion. Tom we're talking about captaincy I have a very important question for you my 17 year old granddaughter is the captain of a culver uh team in Indiana she's now in a uh uh USA hockey tournament in in Dallas yeah uh she's 17 years old she's very into the game uh she has a messier type uh personality what advice would you give my granddaughter moving ahead she's 17 you've been coaching for your life what are you gonna what do you tell Aviga Fischler I would I would tell her uh number one be herself uh and you don't know it all so don't pretend you do but what she does know because of the letter on her jersey already is how to lead and I think what she's got to do is make sure she talks to her teammates she's a well she sounds like a freshman herself Stan she uh uh I I believe she has the uh personality to go up uh uh hopefully to colleges yeah uh you tell her to uh uh do so and so what I you know what I told her today I told her a joke which I'll tell at the end I'll tell the joke after the at the end of the show I'm gonna know an off what am I gonna tell what the hell do I know all I did was play roller hockey and I scored one goal in my whole career and you watched how many captains on the ice how many captains did you watch on the ice lead their team uh the great greatest captain of all based on what I had seen was Ted Kennedy of the Leafs who succeeded Sillaps and uh uh teeter won the cup in uh 80 uh let's see we know 49 and 51 he was the greatest based on what I what I and of course you got you have to say Messier and so on and Denny Potman Denny Potfin Chico Resh told me he was the greatest captain that uh he'd ever seen but um we'll see we'll see what happens we'll see what happens i just oh yeah no she's it's exciting to see a grandchild uh play with the intensity that she has that's great that's not great because not great because when we would play games like uh our little tennis she beat the crap out of me and she didn't have any pity i have it i have a quick captain story for you i i had a signed um photo of nick lidstrom sitting on the boards like they did in the old days stan when they take the pictures of guys that have one leg over the boards anyway he had his seven Norris trophies beside him and a put and a photo and um a young friend of mine a colleague who's had a young fella playing and and um you know he's going away to play hockey for the first time away from home and I gave him the pitcher and I said you know you can look at all those trophies and this is a great player I said the most important feature of this picture is the C on that man's jersey not those trophies nothing it's the C on his jersey and now he's the captain in his college team right now but uh so when you when you talk to your granddaughter just tell her be herself um she doesn't have to know it all she just has to know how to treat people and and be the best example she can um in any way possible as much off the ice as on the ice well that's great thank you I appreciate that well I'm sure she's got good DNA one one ranger follow-up for me Tom just Glenn Sayher his leadership his mentorship what what did that friendship what did that mean to you in the New York years throughout well a lot a lot I'd had some experience with Glenn in the past he tried to get me to go coach in uh I don't know if it was Kate Bretton Oilers he tried to get me up there to come in as an associate coach um he finally talked me into my as my second go around through hockey canada come and be director player personnel and I had a different trajectory and plan and in mind I think he did as well within the Rangers and then all of a sudden I was on the bench with him I can tell you that Ben or Glenn I should say um was very very good for uh Jim Dolan and the Rangers uh because of his experience and he he he would he would be humble enough not to even want to talk about this um you know five Stanley Cubs Hall of Famer and you know all he'd do is sit down and chat with you put his feet up on the desk chew on his cigar and tell stories of whatever you wanted i i would initiate those things and he would and he would storytell and then we would get into talking about players um he would you know he he was he was just not not the persona that people I think see in Glenn I think that I think that's the furthest thing from the truth he can come across with an edge he can come across in any way you know people might think is a sort of um above it all there's no chance this man's got his feet onto the ground and he makes sure that the people around him do as well and um I have all kinds of time in world for for for Glenn I owe him a great deal yeah we miss him he miss he I miss his presence uh around the Rangers yeah he was uh great to see I don't think he ever smoked that cigar I think he just chewed the edge yeah always always that small bit my father my father thought cigars were to be chewed did he yeah yeah my mother didn't approve but that didn't matter well that's okay mums are in charge we all know that we're all asked we always ask our guests what's your prediction for the Stanley Cup who do you think is gonna take it all this year you know I'm gonna I'm going to um I my inclination is Colorado uh but I'm gonna go I'm gonna say Carolina why why they're an amazing team this year they're very very they're a very good team throughout like you know from top to bottom they all play the game you know with the same intention uh they're all extremely disciplined uh I I I think Rod Brindamore um could coach a fire hydrant I just think he's that good I I just think he's he's got guys believing in everything he says and does because that's how he played that's who he is um and and I think they have a ton of respect for him that not that any of the other teams don't for their coaches I I believe that to be true.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

I'd I'd love to see I yeah I'd love to see Torts win a cup um I know another one at least just because I just think he's a he kind of epitomizes um coaching he epitomizes you know the the need to stay with it the need to grow grow people um you know even when it's not fun when it's hard but what about the avalanche what about the avalanche i like them that's everybody's i i said i'm gonna go off page because i think that's what everybody's thinking so i'm gonna divert whisky sabres are very good this year they are good they really are they are good too and and i have to be honest with you stand toronto is your favorite team montreal was my favorite team was when i started when i was four years old i i got a great suggestion for you okay okay after the playoffs are over i want you to call up the owner or the gm of the carolina hurricanes and tell them to draft a fire hydrant sixth round right yeah that's right let's see how much that statement is true who who was the team that drafted somebody that passed away that was Ottawa Rough Riders in uh Seattle that was Jerry yeah they they drafted a dead guy the flyers but uh yeah Sabers drafted a Japanese player that didn't exist one way back when I don't care what anybody says Tom that is one of the greatest lines I've ever heard well the fire is one of the greatest lines and you know it fits that Brindamore guy it fits yeah all good well just as a last uh statement here well actually I'll have two statements uh Carolina I've never been a big believer in Freddie Anderson as a starting number one goalie I I think he's like falters but this year I've been watching him and his game being a former goalie his game is more compact and he's not moving as much he's he's very very level headed and he's not getting uh out of position at all like he's it's it's uh you know it's fun to watch and but uh Tom I just wanted to say that uh your time in Vancouver like I I thought you got a raw deal I really did I really liked you as a coach and and uh I when they brought in Mike Keenan and I consider that to be the beginning of the dark ages for the Canucks because it just was a boondoggle from from that point.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:37

So thanks Jerry very kind of you I showed Mike where the light switch was i hope I hope you can take criticism uh there's a flaw there's a flaw if you draft a phi hydrant you always have to worry about a dog pissing on it well you know the saying there stand some days you're the hydrant and some days you're the dog okay my dog's sleeping listening to the whole thing down here before we started the show Alan told me that you're his favorite coach and maeve's favorite coach for the last 25 years so I guess Jerry's as well now I don't know how but uh I I I do appreciate more than anything else it's just good people in your life there's the gift I I have one question when I used to tell you the jokes the PR guy who was like a Gestapo officer John Rosasco would stand next to you with us and he he had a frown on his face like uh he would like to assassinate me.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:50

Did he ever say anything about the joke telling um not that not that I not anything that was derogatory or I because I loved it so much. He he saw that clean clean and simple he wasn't he wasn't gonna kind of contradict the our relationship and the fun we had no way he had no he had no room to right right don was good to me boy he he gave me a little tug on the on the sleeve once in a while with some other people never you stand he knew how important that was to us that's good that's good stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:26

Yeah it's a tradition of ours that mave uh tells us a joke at the end of the show maybe we're gonna tell us a colorful joke do you have it I done don't point me in any direction my dear I don't know where the hell I'm going anyhow so I ain't gonna help so here's the gag.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:45

This is a crazy gag. A duck, a live duck walks into a bar, goes up to the bartender, bartender looks at me says to the bartender got any grapes? But this is what are you stupid? We serve wine liquor we don't have any grapes get out of here next day the duck walks into the bar goes up to the bartender he says uh you got any grapes what did I tell you yesterday we don't have grapes we serve wine we serve liquor gin's and tonic get out of here duck walks out next day duck walks into the bar bartend says now what duck says you got any grapes bartender says you come in here one more time and you ask me for grapes I'm gonna get the biggest nail that I can find I'm gonna nail your feet into the wall into the floor now get out of here next day the duck walks into the bar guy bartender looks at him he says what now he says you got any nails he says this isn't the hardware so no I don't have any nails he says good you got any grapes

SPEAKER_02 1:06:13

Is it a he or a she? I saw her in the pictures. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:19

She's a Catan de Tulia. She's the royal dog of Madagascar.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:24

Very famous. Nice. Very tolerant dog.

unknown 1:06:29

Sweet.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:30

Sweet dog. Yes. So she went.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:32

Alan, Alan, if she could play, what position?

SPEAKER_06 1:06:36

I I think right wing. She's scoring some goals from the definitely not defense.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:43

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:47

I don't know. She looks pretty goonish to me. Oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:50

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:52

Well, you know, if he brings a prop like that to this program, he's got to listen to one more dog joke. So these two guys are walking down Sunday afternoon on Madison Avenue in Manhattan, very posh area. And they got each guy's got a dog. They're walking their dogs, and it's about one in the afternoon. One guy says to you, he said, Charlie, let's get something to eat. I'm hungry. He says, We can't. We got the dogs here. They won't let us in a nice restaurant. He says, They will if you watch what I do. He goes into the store, buys a cheap cane, and he buys a pair of cheap sunglasses, and he says, Watch what I do. And he walks into this nice restaurant. And Maitre Day says, No dogs allowed here. No dogs allowed. And he taps, he taps his cane and he says, Man, I'm blind. This is my seeing-eyed dog. Matre D says, Since when is a Rottweiler or a seeing-eyed dog? He says, No, this is they're tame, they're very well behaved. The Matre D takes him to a table, sits him down. Two minutes later, his buddy walks in, also with a cane and his sunglasses. Major D says, No dog's allowed here. He says, Well, I'm blind, man. This is my seeing-eyed dog. And Major D says, Since when is a Dachshund a seeing eyed dog? And he taps the cane and he says, You mean they sold me a Dach Hund? Jesus, Tom Your Mighty. I gotta get out of here before I get dirty. Well, I was wondering.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:39

She liked the jokes, so she's money. That's great.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:46

Hey, uh, I thanks for the advice. Thank you so much. Be in touch. Uh be in touch, pal.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:51

Take care, Stan. Love you.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:53

Love you. Uh it was great. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:55

Outstanding.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:56

Joining us. And uh, to everyone watching and listening, make sure you're following, subscribing, and we'll see you on the next one. Take care. Thank you so much, guys.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:04

Take care, everybody. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:07

Bye bye. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.