THE Condo Pod

Stop, Drop, and Listen: Fire Facts from Cheif Lewis

• CCI Eastern Ontario Chapter • Season 1 • Episode 11

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Gwen Lewis - https://fswo.ca/

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SPEAKER_02

Welcome to the Condo Pod, brought to you by the Canadian Condominium Institute of Eastern Ontario. This is your go-to space for all things condo in Eastern Ontario. From governance and legal updates to maintenance, management, and community living, the Condo Pod tackles key issues affecting our condominium community. We are diving into topics that matter most to condo owners, directors, and professionals across the region. I'm really excited this morning to introduce a very special guest on our podcast today, Division Chief of Fire Prevention in our national capital, Gwen Lewis. Gwen, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for having me. I'm excited about our topics today. Chief Lewis has a very full plate, so again, we're going to try and tackle as much as we can in the time we have today. She oversees fire investigation, code enforcement, and public education. She has a career spanning communications, enforcement, leadership, has developed innovative fire safety education programs for residents, building owners, and vulnerable communities with a strong focus on fire prevention and life safety. You've probably seen her as well at some of our condo conferences. She's a fabulous guest speaker, and owners just love having her present. Two great examples of her recent initiatives are After the Fire for Newcomers to Canada and a Building Owners Education Program, which is supported by social media. Gwen is a strong believer that fire education includes residents, building owners, and operators. Fire education can minimize the risk and impacts of fire. She has served on several local and provincial committees to help enhance the life safety of Ontario residents, including Ontario Municipal Fire Prevention Officers Association, local and provincial, and provincial advisory committees. She loves to continue to educate. She is a lifelong learner, and she loves to get the message out to our communities. So let's talk about some of the biggest and hottest topics that are affecting our condo communities in the fire safety and fire prevention, uh prevention setting. There's a lot of hot topics, and we're going to try and tackle as many of them as possible. So let's start, if it's okay with you, Gwen, with fire code updates. This is an issue that affects, I think, every single condominium community in Ontario. There's some big changes that have come down the pipe, and I think that's probably our best place to start. Can you tell me what's happened, why it's happened, where we are?

SPEAKER_03

Sure. In June 2025, the new fire code was passed in the Ontario legislature. Took effect January 1st, 2026. Now, there was over 2,500 changes to the code. Some of those changes were just editorial changes. So uh taking um uh articles from a part two of the code into part six of the code with no actually code change wording. So housekeeping, I guess? Basically housekeeping. And part of this housekeeping is to be harmonized with the national code in coming years. ETA on that, we're not sure, but it's for harmonization of fire and building codes.

SPEAKER_02

So the harmonization of the Ontario Fire Code with the National Building Code. So the housekeeping was so that it'll be easier to read the two together?

SPEAKER_03

Uh so National Uh Ontario Fire Code with the National Fire Code. Got it. Okay. Okay. Um so some of those changes were editorials, others were actually improvements in fire and life safety for our Ontario residents. So some of those uh can be our testing standards. So a lot of our fire uh sorry, all of our fire protection devices are tested to a can ULC or a CSA standard. Over time, standards are rewritten, improved, changed. And as the code changes uh with each edition, we go to a more current standard, uh, more current edition of the standards to follow.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so just to help me understand a little bit uh better, the fire detection systems. So what would that include?

SPEAKER_03

So that's your fire. I'll use a fire alarm system because it's I'm gonna say very popular. Some people understand what it is. It includes your pull stations and your bells that go off when your um when your fire alarm sounds in a multi-unit building. Okay. Um so we were testing them to an old standard. We've increased that standard to a 2019 standard of it's S536 standard, but those are just, and I don't want to say people in the industry understand that. Um building owners and um condo board members may not. Right. They just have to know that it's a newer standard, um, and their reports will look different when they are reviewing them.

SPEAKER_02

Ah, okay, that's important. So what they were seeing before is gonna look a little bit different now because of the updated requirements and standards. You got it. Okay, got it. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

So another change, a big change, uh, we've put a lot of uh media uh into this change across the province is the change for CO requirements.

SPEAKER_02

This is what we're hearing about all over social media and in webcasts and podcasts. So I'm excited to hear about this. So tell me all about that one.

SPEAKER_03

So anytime you have a attached garage or a fuel-fired appliance, so whether that's a gas-hot water tank, fireplace, stove, um, uh fireplace, um, you need a CO alarm on every level of that structure.

SPEAKER_02

So even if your fireplace is in the lower level, you would still need a CO detector upstairs on the bedroom level, for example.

SPEAKER_03

That's correct. So these are just enhancing what we've uh what were required already. So we were always required to have one where you sleep in the hall where you sleep in the sleeping areas. Um now it's required on every level. Um so that's if we can talk about single family homes or town homes, that's the that is that requirement. If you have a multi-uh unit dwelling, so um high-rise condo, low rise condo, um where there's multi-units within one structure, if that building is heated with a fuel-fired appliance, natural gas, you have to have them everywhere people sleep. Oh, interesting. So that is a big change. It is a big change. And if you have some units will have two heating systems. So, for example, your common areas are heated by a furnace, maybe natural gas, that will heat the whole unit all in common areas, so then you need a CO alarm there on every single level. So that would be your common hallways on every level of your uh your building. And then sometimes you have um a fuel-fired appliance within your unit that heats your unit, if that is natural gas, or if you have a natural gas dryer or fireplace, then you have increased CO alarms and a requirement.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. And so what about if you have um a natural gas barbecue on the exterior common almost?

SPEAKER_03

Not it nothing required.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, that's a little bit of a wrinkle there. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

So the the appliance has to be heating air, the appliance has to be heating um air or uh could contribute to the air within the residential dwelling.

SPEAKER_02

Got it. Hence the gas stove, gas barbecue, gas fireplace, burnout, et cetera. Okay, got it. Okay. And so we're you're saying that in 2025, in June, that's when this started coming down the pipe, and it came into force in January. Are you seeing a lot of compliance to date?

SPEAKER_03

Um so when we go into buildings, we usually ask before we get there, have you do you know about the CO alarm new requirements? Um I don't have stats on how many do and how many don't. Uh, because we've put out a lot of public messaging, both within Ottawa Fire, our website is a great resource for inf uh for information with diagrams on where the alarms are needed. Uh, we are finding that uh building owners' condo boards are being proactive and meeting the standard.

SPEAKER_02

Excellent. That's really good to hear. So it when you first launch this or when the province first launched this, what type of notification, what type of information was sent out just to keep people in the loop? Because that information may also be something that current boards want to be looking at if they haven't already complied.

SPEAKER_03

Um unfortunately, nothing gets sent out from the province. Okay, uh, from the Ontario Fire Marshal when that happens. Um, the each municipality, their fire service has done their own promotion, if I can say that, um, of the new legislation. And that's just to keep their residents safe within their municipality. Um and um uh I'm gonna say ensure compliance with the fire code. So one thing about CO alarms, they're very important because we won't know if there's CO in your building. So you can't see it, you can't smell it. Right. And you start feeling uh nausea, dizziness, as if you're sick. Well, you can be sick for other reason. Um and so that's why it is very important to have your alarms where required.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you can you can feel upset tummy, you can feel like it's a little bit dizzy, leave the home, feel great for a little while, come back, have it start again, and unless you're there for a prolonged period of time, you may not attribute that discomfort to CO in your unit. Okay. Um so where would boards find the information now? If they say, okay, well, I'm not up to speed on this, so I need to make sure that we're compliant. Would they go to the municipal website? Would they go to the provincial website? What's their best place to go for all the information they need to see?

SPEAKER_03

So the new fire code and previous editions are available on e-laws on the Ontario website, just like all municipal or sorry, all provincial legislation. Um Ottawa.ca slash fire has um our and I were where we direct our residents to. Um it has information for single family homes and town homes along with uh multi-unit dwellings.

SPEAKER_02

That's where we would find that chart, that work chart that you need. Okay, fantastic. So uh Ottawa.ca slash fire? That's correct. All right, folks, check that out. Make sure you don't miss that. So historically, we've had a case that confirmed or interpreted the word owner to confirm that condominium corporations were deemed to be co-owners of units for the purposes of fire code compliance. In that particular case, it related to smoke detectors. That is a legal interpretation, obviously, that the courts have taken in relation to the definition of owner that we find in the fire code. The challenge, of course, is that the the court didn't provide guidance to condominium corporations as to, okay, if you are the co-owner of the unit for the purposes of the of the fire code, what steps are you legally required to take to make sure units are complying with their obligations, fire detectors and now CO detectors, which is a bigger deal. Are you aware of any changes that have taken the interpretation of owner differently? Or are as far as you're aware, would condos still be considered co-owners of units for the purposes of fire detection systems and CO detectors?

SPEAKER_03

So we use the owner defined in the Ontario Fire Code, which uh not word for word, but it is uh whoever has the legal owner, so the owner of the property, or has care and control of that unit.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Um if we are doing an inspection of a property, uh, we will issue an order, and the order would go to the individual condo unit along with the condo corporation, the condo board. Okay. Um, so we are covering kind of both bases. That's just a notify of who, and honestly, as long as the work gets done. We're not the ones that are going to interpret right. I interpret that. That comes down with the court of law in your expertise.

SPEAKER_02

But to make sure that everybody is notified and aware, it goes to both the owner and the condomine corporation.

SPEAKER_03

That's correct.

SPEAKER_02

Excellent. Um, and obviously you and I can't answer the question today. What are the reasonable steps a condo has to take to make sure that CO detectors have been installed or to make sure that uh all fire detection systems have been installed, etc.? All we can say is that both the condo and the owner have duties. If you're unsure as to whether or not you have fulfilled your duties as a condo board, reach out to the fire experts. They're the ones who will guide you through that. That's correct. Yeah. Okay. Well, speaking of fire code compliance and tricky little issues, let's turn now to some of the questions that we get asked by property managers about in the building and on site. It's not unusual, particularly around holiday season, for owners to decorate or condo boards to decorate. We may see some festive decorations put up in the lobby, we may see festive wreaths or other types of decorations on doorways. When it's wintertime, we may see boots in the hallways, we may see all sorts of things happening on site, and boards or managers may have to send a notice to an owner saying, please take down your wreath or please put your boots inside and not in the hallways. And owners get a little bit fussed, saying, Well, wait a second, I'm just trying to be festive. What I think a lot of condo boards and managers are trying to do is enforce their obligations under the fire code. So I'm hoping we can talk about some of those items today so we can clear up some misunderstandings and talk about the do's and don'ts of what you can and cannot do on your site for fire code. I think the first one we wanted to talk about is lobby furniture, because it used to be a major no-no, no lobby furniture, but I think there's some changes.

SPEAKER_03

So that is one of the changes in the new code. Okay. Um, and I was gonna say I have my code book here just to make sure because uh some of these new changes, there's so many of them we want to make sure I'm giving you the it's not small, it's about this thick, there's a lot of stuff in there. So lobby furniture, uh as long as the uh it is non-combustible, solid wood. Okay, um, it is and constructed of solid wood, and there and the area is sprinklered. Oh, interesting. Okay. Um, and equipped with a smoke detector. That would be part of your fire alarm system. Um there is quantities that can be put in a lobby, and like it's very descriptive in the fire code.

SPEAKER_02

So you may not be able to have fancy uh leather wing back chairs, but you might be able to have some wooden stools depending on the size, depending on the nature of your particular lobby.

SPEAKER_03

That's right. And that is um in so these are four lobbies or corridors if there's large if they have large corridors. But the this furniture, solid wood furniture, cannot impact the means of egress. So it cannot be obstruction of the means of egress.

SPEAKER_02

So two issues to be thinking about one is the combustibility, and then two is the egress.

SPEAKER_03

That's right. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

And I think that's probably a sort of a key issue for each of the items that we're gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so let's talk about wreaths on doors or other decorative items on doors. So your high-rise condo, uh, it's it's a holiday season and people are decorating, whether it's uh you know, a wreath or a some other type of wood object, etc., are those permitted?

SPEAKER_03

So nothing combustible can be on them in the means of egress. So if we just talk a simple hallway, maybe a stair at each end, elevators in the middle in the middle of the hallway. Um, when we go into the building, we should look down and see nothing in the hallway. So boots. Boots can be a um an issue, so they're combustible, but also they become a tripping hazard, not only for people leaving the units, but also for our firefighters. Oh, fair when they go in. Um wreaths or decorations on doors. Uh, we had a tragedy a number of years ago here in Ottawa where we had multiple fatalities because someone lit the wreath on the door. Um that is falls under the fire code definition of no combustibles in the means of egress. Right. Now, we always get challenged, or property managers always get challenged, um, because uh residents want to put something on their door to make it look festive. Um you can put something that's non-combustible, so porcelain. Oh, okay, interesting. Tin on your doors. Uh, but it is up to that property management to um police that. Right. So a lot of our uh corporations have put something in their bylaws that there is nothing allowed on the doors. Right. And that's because it becomes very difficult to police. And um so my line is let's enjoy our festivities in our unit or in a party room if there is one, and decorate that unit uh for um festivities.

SPEAKER_02

I agree, it's the safest approach. That way you don't have to worry about individuals not understanding why this particular type of object is permitted on the door, and this is not. Just take that obligation right out, keep it simple, nothing on doors, nothing in hallways, no temporary shopping carts if you're bringing your groceries back, no strollers because you never know what can happen at any given time. That's right. Okay, now here's another one that you and I were talking about, and it it actually really made me stop and pause because I wouldn't have thought about this. But snow removal. Snow removal in the fire code. Who, you know, who thinks about those things?

SPEAKER_03

So just like we um exits have to be accessible, which just makes sense. Um anytime you have an exit sign over a door or any door that leads outside, that pathway outside has to be free and clear to an unobstructed thoroughfare. So that has to be shoveled in the wintertime. So luckily we're spring and we won't tackle these problems, hopefully, until next fall. Mother Nature's kind. We have had the odd uh snow dump in April. So but yeah, those so it's just once again a reminder. So if you have a snow contractor or if you have somebody in your condo that does that, that's just one more thing to put on their list to make sure that it is done. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02

And another one that really made me stop and pause is the fire department connections outdoors. You highlighted gardening. We're not necessarily thinking about fire department or fire code when we're doing our gardening. So tell me a little bit about that one.

SPEAKER_03

So your fire department connections are the usually um can be two, but can be more, depending on how large your buildings are. The fire department connections, there's usually an FDC sign or fire department connection sign above it. So there can be closer to your front entranceway or closer to your fire route where we would pull up. If there was a working fire within the building, we would connect our pumper truck to that and it would supply water to the fire and life, the the suppression system within your um building. Right. Um, so we want to be able to see these. So when gardening happens very soon, we'll be all anxious to do that. Make sure that the either if there's hedges in front that they are trimmed down, they have to be accessible. Okay, makes sense. Yeah. So let's not hide them. They may not look pretty, but they're very important to us and to our crews that are responding.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Don't put your hostas or anything that's going to grow big and flowery and pretty in front of those particular connections. I can see, I can see why condo owners or or boards or volunteers may say, Oh, it's a little ugly, let's hide that. But don't do that.

SPEAKER_03

It's the same for fire department, uh, sorry, for um fire hydrants.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

A lot of our larger condo units have their own private fire hydrants and um they try and put gardens around them. Don't do that. We have a city by so we have the Ontario Fire Code that stops us from doing that. We also have um a city bylaw that uh has speaks to that too, also.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, you know, I do I did not know about that. Again, we're learning so much today. A lot of boards wouldn't be thinking about that either. That you don't put don't even put like a little garden around them.

SPEAKER_03

So they have to be accessible a meter and a half all the way around. Okay. Um and we talk about that with snow clearing. Right. Our hydrant heroes. Um that um hydrants have to be clear so that we can have them accessible in case we need them.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. No, and again, these are all very, very, very practical day-to-day implications that we're not thinking about because we're not we're not experts in the industry, which is why we're talking to you today, Gwen.

SPEAKER_01

The condo pod is proudly sponsored by Aaliyah Associates, celebrating 25 years of practice. Aaliyah Associates is a law firm specializing in post-development condominium law, proudly serving communities across the province with offices in Ottawa, Toronto, Barrie, and Oakville. Since opening our doors in 2001, our mission has been to deliver constructive, creative, and cost effective legal solutions with a strong commitment to education, advocacy, and growth across the condominium industry. We are AWEA Associates.

SPEAKER_02

To learn more, Okay, another one that's a hot topic is storage of mobility scooters, e-bikes inside.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. So um I'm sure uh these have been a lot in the news lately, not only in Ottawa, but across Canada. So mobility scooters, e-bikes, um, this little scooters that my kids had when they were little.

SPEAKER_02

Although when when we had them when they were, they didn't have batteries.

SPEAKER_03

We have we're foot propelled, right? Absolutely. Yeah. So if we can talk generally about anything with an ionized uh ionized battery. Sounds good. Yeah. Uh so a rechargeable battery. So this can be tools. It can be your toothbrush, it can be your cell phone, your laptop. Um, very important to buy listed items. So make sure that there's a ULC listed item, uh listed a label on it. Um little silver label.

SPEAKER_02

That's right. Exactly what that looks like. Yeah. I'll tell you a funny story. Well, not sorry, it's not a funny story, it's an interesting story, very on topic. One of my son's friends very recently ended up in the emergency room. They had one of those portable chargeable batteries that they bought from Amazon for their cell phone, and they were sitting there charging their cell phone and it exploded and caught on fire in their hand. Next, and it was an Amazon knockoff, no little silver sticker on it.

SPEAKER_03

That's what you're talking about, right? That's exactly what I'm talking about. So when you're buying the product, buy listed items. Then when you're maintaining the product, so when I say maintain, it's um charging. Charge as per the manufacturer's instruction. So if it says don't charge longer than four hours at a time. Right. Follow that. Set a timer for yourself. Um if it says don't charge overnight, if it said any of that, unfortunately we have to read instructions.

SPEAKER_02

Um that's a challenge at times. And we're not being facetious, right? Sometimes you just buy it, you're you're you're busy, you plop it on, you think oh, it must work the same way as my last one did, and away we go.

SPEAKER_03

That's right. Yeah. Um and then if you have to replace it, so replace if you have to replace that charger, make sure you're getting a charger that's compatible with that unit. So if it is a DeWalt uh battery for a drill, make sure you're getting that DeWalt charger. Right. The ones that seem to be compatible with DeWalt or compatible with major brands of drills and usually are not listed. And they're gonna increase your risk. That's right. Yeah. The unfortunate part of this is some of those knockoff brands are are cheaper, and that's what people and that's what people go towards. Um so those are the things around just the battery safety to begin with. Read your instructions, follow the instructions, maintain it properly, and then also disposal. So if you have to get rid of those uh batteries, so for example, and I'm using like a power drill or um even some of the um items in like a toothbrush, a rechargeable toothbrush, has a battery, has an ionized battery in it. Make sure you're following how to do that. So in Ottawa, we have um an Ottawa waste calendar through our garbage disposal people. Right. Um, and there's instructions on their website on how to dispose of them.

SPEAKER_02

And I know that Home Depot actually has like because we we've gone through a lot of uh power tool batteries recently. And so we dispose of our power tool batteries at Home Depot. They take those. So you drop off your regular batteries and you drop off the power tool batteries at the same time. That's right.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so the other thing to do is be aware. So, what doesn't uh a battery fire look sound like? So uh a battery fire caught is caused by thermal runaway, so there's an issue with the battery. So it usually has a popping sound, it usually has smoke. These are very fast mitigating fires, so fast, fast. So faster than that um waste uh paper basket on the floor, or faster than a kitchen fire. Get out. That's the only thing we're suggesting. So if you see that, oh my, it just popped. What was that? Oh, now there's smoke. Run. Right? Okay, leave the area, close the door, notify the fire department, notify other people in the building if you if you have a fire alarm system. Um by closing that door, it's going to keep that contained to an area.

SPEAKER_02

So those are um so starting point though, don't buy non-listed batteries. And this is important also for condos to be thinking about uh do we pass rules about using non-listed? I know it's hard to it's hard to enforce, obviously. Absolutely, but as a as a proactive measure, education, educating owners of the risks of having uh uh non-listed ionized batteries, what that can lead to, and why this kind of a rule is maybe important for the condos to be thinking about.

SPEAKER_03

And just one last thing, as we and I don't say this is a big issue right now, is if you're charging these, if you have a mobile mobility scooter or um a scooter or an e-bike, make sure you're not charging it in your exit pathway. All right. So if you're charging it within your unit, find a spot to do it that is going to be supervised. So if it if that battery does have an issue, you will hear it. Right. But don't charge it on the exit way out of your building. Right or out of your unit.

SPEAKER_02

That's logical. And and you might not think about that. You might think, oh, they have a spare plug right in my hallway, right on the way in. It's convenient. I come in, I put my battery there, I charge it, and I leave it. But in the event of a fire, that's your egress. That's right. So logical. These these things are so logical, but we don't stop and think about them.

SPEAKER_03

And that's why education is so important. And we hear about it when we have kids in school and they bring home all this information and say, look, mom, look, dad, look what I have. This and some of the education never changes from when our kids were in school.

SPEAKER_02

Stop, drop, and roll. I I I saw a meme recently, and just a really funny side note, but I saw a meme recently saying, you know, when I was little, I I learned stop, drop, and roll, and I was waiting for a fire my whole life. I've been waiting to stop, drop, and roll, right? That was so ingrained into us when we were kids. Now we don't hear about it as much. So it's different, maybe a different kind of education that we're we're hearing about now. It's all about batteries. All about batteries, all about batteries. Uh so maybe one more hot topic on uh inbuilding, and then we're gonna turn to um what boards and managers need to be thinking about for ongoing compliance. So this is another one. You have an interesting story that you told me about. An owner did some construction in their unit and some interesting wrinkles that went along with that. Uh so if you're if you're renovating your unit, what do you need to be thinking about? Fire code.

SPEAKER_03

You think it's all good, but maybe not. That's right. So we had a high-rise, this was in a high-rise condo. Um, somebody expanded their closet to become a walk-in closet and took space out of either their bedroom or their living room. Um great idea. Gorgeous closet, I'm sure. Yes. Um, but what happened is whether they did it for by themselves or whether they hired someone, not sure. But what they did is they put the sprinkler with the sprinkler, sis the sprinkler head within the wall. So, yep, may they may not be pretty, but you know, they do serve a purpose. Yeah. And we never know when that's going to be needed. So the underlying message here is if you're doing renovations within your unit, even though you may not own the unit, make sure you're following the proper processes. And in that case, it would be uh getting a building permit through the City of Ottawa Building Department. Right. And that may have an impact with fire protection within your unit. Not something maybe the agile the average resident may be thinking about, but you know, is that smoke alarm now in your closet where it should be outside? Is that smoke detector that's connected to your fire alarm system? Where is that? And is is it in the proper place? These are things we need the experts to look at, and that's done through the building permit process. So kind of a one-off, but it's also a really good education topic.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's a great story. Because I again, if you think about that particular scenario, it may have been perhaps more obvious than not. Don't hide a sprinkler. That's probably not a smart thing to do. But what wouldn't be evident would be the fact that you've now perhaps taken away the fire detection system, if it's now in your closet, from the main room. That would not everybody would be thinking about that ramification. Hiding a sprinkler, not smart. But maybe you're not thinking about the other aspect of that.

SPEAKER_03

That's right. Yeah. And also if it's connected to the fire alarm s if it's a smoke detector that's connected to your fire alarm system, it's not going to alert the other occupants in the building.

SPEAKER_02

So you're not just putting yourself at risk, you're putting everybody at risk.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

So many fun some fun stories. I say fun stories in hindsight because nobody's hurt. So it's all about education, folks. We want to try and make sure that these are issues that people are thinking about. I've learned so much today on these topics, and so hopefully it's helping others realize they need to be thinking about things. Before you do anything, think about whether or not this is a fire code issue. So, on that note, your boards and managers do have to be thinking about fire code on a regular basis. They have certain obligations. We have a little a story that we're going to talk about a little bit later on that's very uh very active in the news right now. But before we get to that story for now, let's talk about day-to-day ongoing obligations of boards and managers as they relate to fire code. And a big one that residents may not think about is the corporation's obligations in relation to records. So tell it tell us what boards and managers need to be thinking about in relation to records.

SPEAKER_03

So a building is built with fire and life safety uh systems within it. So that could be does that unit door close to hold back smoke andor fire? Does the fire extinguishers, where are they located in the building? Emergency lights. So when the power goes off, these emergencies, emergency lights go on. Um, fire alarm, sprinkler, generators that run that firefighter elevator. Um, those are what I talk about, or what I mean when I talk about fire and life safety systems. So all of these have to be maintained. Um, some are required to be tested weekly, monthly, annually, semi-annually, like there's a there's a huge list. Um but every time something is done, uh tested, it has to be documented.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, like a log of something.

SPEAKER_03

A log. Now, if you're hiring someone to do this, you will get a chances are you're going to get a report that says, I checked all these and everything is fine. Or I check these and there's these are the deficiencies or the repairs that have to be done. So under the Ontario Fire Code, um, and we ask for this when we go in to do an inspection. And Connor boards and property managers really have to be aware of this. So when you get that report, review it for deficiencies and correct those deficiencies.

SPEAKER_02

That's actually let's pause on that one. Just getting the report is not sufficient. And you know, again, people may not be thinking about this, but read that report carefully as you're saying, because it could have things that require a follow-up.

SPEAKER_03

That's correct. Maybe they didn't access a unit because the owner wasn't home. Um, maybe they couldn't get into your hydro vault. Um those end up to be deficiencies on your report. And yes, the fire alarm company may be very proactive and keep bugging your the property manager to come back or whoever their contact is to come back. Okay, I need access to that, that, that. Um, but there may be other things. These are systems. Systems break, just like our cars. Um, and they need that uh maintenance that's required. So coming back to records, anything that is deficient has to be noted that it's deficient and noted that uh the time date and time of when it was corrected.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

So when you walk through your building every day and you say, Oh, there's an exit light out, great. What's your process for getting that fixed? Sometimes our processes meet the requirements of the documentation. So if the process is when your property manager walks through the building, they're gonna file a work order and they're going to have either the um electrician on staff or on contract fix it. Well, that's the process that's needed. Because what happens is if there is a fire and somebody doesn't get out because they didn't see the exit sign, then it gets complicated.

SPEAKER_02

We'll talk about those complications in our story a little bit later on and the obligations that can flow from failing to keep the records, from failing to do the proper maintenance, etc. Okay, so we talked a little bit about records. So uh the bottom line message there to boards and and managers make sure you're looking at the records, maintaining the records, getting the inspections done as needed, and then getting any follow-up done as required. And then maintenance, you touched on that a little bit already. Uh touched about the fact that if you see an exit sign that's out, or if again, these are systems that they can fail, make sure that you're continuously monitoring and making sure that things are maintained as required. We you talked about the the life safety systems. Tell me a little bit more about the doors.

SPEAKER_03

So every door in a, and I'm gonna say every, that may be most doors, um, so whether it's in your high-rise apartment or high-rise condo or a low-rise condo where you have internal shared spaces, um, any door to your unit has to close to a latch. So over time, just through moving in, moving out, bringing groceries, bringing all that strollers, wheelchairs, whatever, um, they may not close to a latch. Your doors in and out of your parking garages or uh in and out of your storage room. When you release that door, it should close to a latch. And the important part of this is if there is a fire, we promote close that door as you exit. Well, that door is a fire-rated door. Right. And having that close to a latch is going to keep that smoke, fire, and contaminants within that area. So whether it's your unit, whether it's the stairwell, whether it's a hallway, whether it's a service room, those are really important areas. Um if you have a car fire in your uh parking garage. If the doors aren't closed to a latch, well then that smoke will migrate all through your building.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Right. Again, such important, important considerations for boards and managers, we think you had on a daily basis. When you talked about garages, it made me pause because there's one particular topic earlier on that we didn't talk about, and that's storage of combustibles or storage of items in in parking garages. That is a another hot topic. Uh storing bicycles in parking units or or parking stalls, uh, storing wood in parking stalls, storing fire cans or gas cans in parking stalls. Spare tires. Spare tires. So um there's a couple of do's and don'ts on that if if you have any immediate thoughts. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

So uh we call them parking garages, but they're actually called storage garages. And a storage garage or your underground parking is for vehicles for the storage of a vehicle. Right. So um we do allow that you can have per per stall um a car and a bicycle at most. At most, okay. Okay. Yeah. So the cabinets that you get that people have installed, nice cabinets that they have, I don't know, Christmas decorations, anything like that, absolutely not. The pile of the extra furniture that they've no longer need in their unit. Um a canoe. A canoe, any of that. Put in your storage unit if you have one, or don't have it in your parking garage. Those are uh cars catch fire. And not only that is and they're available to anybody. Right. So it's not as secure. I'm not looking at it as a security thing, I'm looking at it as a fire. So if there is a fire, it contributes to the fire. Um and it's against the Interior Fire Code. That's the bottom line right there, right? So I just like to take what's in the fire code and make it, and I'm gonna say m my way of education is it's in the book. Yeah, well, that's great, but how do people um understand that? What is what makes that important? Right.

SPEAKER_02

Because it can burn.

SPEAKER_03

Because it can burn.

SPEAKER_02

And it can block your path. Yes. I think one of the bottom mess bottom line messages for all of our discussions here today are it's combustible and it blocks egress. If those two things are making you stop and think, we need to think fire code.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, excellent. Um, I know we're running short on time already. So let's talk about the fire safety plan. Because uh the fire safety plan is a topic of big discussion right now as a result of a recent uh case in Toronto uh where a condominium corporation, a contractor, and a management company are being charged under the fire code for a failure to fulfill their obligation, a sorry, a potential failure to fulfill their obligations in relation to a fire safety plan. It's for a fire that is being deemed to be the longest burning fire in Toronto, a fire between two buildings. I won't get in too much to the the details and the facts of the case, so anybody can can Google it. But the bottom line in that case is coming down to the fire safety plan and whether or not the fire safety plan was followed in a particular case. So I think what we should be talking about here today is what is a fire safety plan, who has to have one, and how do you follow it? And then if you don't follow it, what happens?

SPEAKER_00

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SPEAKER_03

So, what is a fire safety plan? Tell us about that to start. A fire safety plan, uh, it's required by the code anytime you have more than 10 occupants in a building, in a residential building. There's other buildings that need them, but let's just talk residential for now. Um and it has certain components. There's about 15 components it has to uh that are in the plan. It talks about what services your building has, what happens when there's a fire, um, how to what's going on for preventive, what's prev to prevent a fire, what's going on for your maintenance. It's your Bible, it's your book about your building. Each building is unique, each fire safety plan is unique. So every fire safety plan for a building has to be approved by our division, or so one of our fire, uh, one of our fire prevention officers.

SPEAKER_02

So you don't just make it up yourself and run away with it.

SPEAKER_03

It has to be approved. It has to be approved. Okay. And then it has to be implemented. So it's great that we're gonna have a piece of paper that's gonna tell us all about our building. It has to be reviewed annually. So great thing to do before your AGM in your for your condo board. Yeah. Uh review that. If their contacts have to be updated, maybe that happens after the AGM, but um uh if your contacts have to be update, update them. Send us a copy. Uh if your um things change, maybe you got a new fire alarm system because you're it was aging out and couldn't be repaired. Um, so all that has to be done. Implementing your fire safety plan means following your fire safety plan. So if it says in your fire safety plan you're going to give owners an annual prevent prevention document, as in this is how we're going to, you know, um stop fires within our building. So safe, it's just a reminder of safe cooking, safe ionized batteries. Yes, because how to store your ionized batteries. Yeah. Um, then make sure it's done. Um, your maintenance, it's in the usually in the back if you use one of our templates.

SPEAKER_02

Um let's pause there. So there are templates that owners can find as well, or card mean boards can find.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. Um website that we have. On our website, I'm sure you'll give the information at the end. Um so if we can uh so if it's not implemented. So if you're not doing your maintenance, or if you're only getting your systems tested and not following up in deficiencies, that's a vital. Of your n of your fire safety plan. If um you're not clearing your exits ways. So we it all comes down to responsibility and prosecution.

SPEAKER_02

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_03

So our prosecu um under the fire prevention and protection act, there's some very severe penalties.

SPEAKER_02

Um that's correct.

SPEAKER_03

So we have a lot of um buildings um that have fire safety plans that aren't followed. And I think this is what's happened in Toronto. Can't speak to the Pacifics because I don't know. I know what's in the media, same thing you read. Same thing we're all reading, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um one of the, I think one of the the the one of the issues we're seeing in the media is that the fire department wasn't notified as soon as people became aware of the fire. It took half an hour or so, and the fire safety plan you were telling me and educating me earlier that the fire safety plan should include as soon as a fire becomes evident, you call the police or the the fire uh the fire department. That's right.

SPEAKER_03

You may be calling the police too for other reasons, but call the fire department. That's right. And these are things like I say, if you have a plan, great to re it's required to be reviewed, but it's great for new board members to review it and say, hey, this is this was my responsibility. This was, you know, um, and what does this mean? And talk to your property manager because they're very resourceful um on who does what within the building, and each building's different. So the responsibility of the um fire safety plan is responsibility of everyone on that kind of management team. So your condo board, your property manager. Um there's usually not a lot of responsibility on the individual owners of the units, um, besides maintaining the stuff within your units.

SPEAKER_02

Right, right. But they're not the ones responsible for for preparing the plan and implementing the plan. And as you were saying just a few minutes ago, the there are very strong penalties. There are financial penalties, potential jail time for individuals who are on that management team if they are not following their obligations under the fire code for these fire safety plans. So it is all about education. And as a new board member or a new property manager or condominium manager, making sure that you understand what your obligations are and if necessary, reach out to the Ottawa Fire Services. I know that there's lots of education opportunities there. Uh, I know that people are very interested in speaking and chatting with buildings and coming to the buildings for education.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I've seen you guys do that before.

SPEAKER_03

So yes, we have a team that does, and they're more for fire safety within your unit versus the building. We um because there's a property manager involved, they're the and I don't want to say the experts, but they have that knowledge. Um, and frequently they will reach out to us for questions.

SPEAKER_02

So that's kind of that's a really good resource as well. So give us just uh the quick and dirty. I know we're very short on time now. Give us the quick and dirty on what happens if you have an inspection. So if the building's being inspected, what's the process very quickly?

SPEAKER_03

So quickly we walk through the building, we want to make sure that uh all the records, so all those uh records, uh test, check, and inspect records are up to date and current deficiencies are being corrected. Then we walk through the building uh to make sure that there's no physical deficiency. So nothing in our combustibles in the corridors. Um canoes in the garage. Uh yes, combustibles in the in the means, uh, in the means of egress, in your parking garage. Uh we want to make sure that um combustibles in our service rooms, so in your in the furnace room of the building. Oh, right, yeah. Uh, making sure we will go into one or two units. Um, stored in a furnace room. Not a good idea. Exactly. Um, and then if we do find deficiencies, um we do write an order. We'll give 30 days for compliance. That's our just our standard side. Um if you need uh more time because parts are in order, work with our division or our fire prevention officers. Um and they as long as work is getting done, we're very accommodating to move a compliance date. Um and if your orders are are on your building, or sorry, against your building, I will say, um there is they also may be posted on your front door. Oh, interesting. Um and that is a requirement under the act.

SPEAKER_02

Um so if they're posted on the front door by the fire services department, they have to stay there until it's fixed.

SPEAKER_03

That's right, fixed. Until it's fixed. Interesting.

SPEAKER_02

That's motivation.

SPEAKER_03

That's right. And it's also illegal against the code to take them down. Sorry, against the act to take to remove those. Right. Well, that's good to know. Um and and then there's also charges if the work it doesn't get done. So um having an order, just like other provincial orders, um, I don't want to say isn't a bad thing, but it's that formal notice to the owner that there's deficiencies that they must act upon. And once they're act upon, we can take that order down, and your building then is fire code compliant.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, wow, there's a lot to be thinking about here. We're gonna take a few moments just at the end of our time here today, to do a closing thought. The mic is is yours. You can speak to anybody in the industry. You can I don't know if you have one final thought or if everything is so important, just listen to this entire podcast a few times. Let me know. Do you have a final thought for the community?

SPEAKER_03

So, my thought, my final thought is the CO alarms.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

So CO is a poisonous gas. You can't smell it, see it, feel it, touch it. Um have your CO alarms installed, tested after 10 years, um install new ones. They're only good for 10 years, just like your smoke alarms. Um, that little bit of uh I'm gonna say time and money that we can all do, whether we're in a multi-unit dwelling or an individual home, is going to save our lives if there's a fire.

SPEAKER_02

I know I'm a little paranoid about that in my own home. So hopefully everybody will take a little bit of paranoia home from this particular podcast today. It's not a bad thing when we're talking about fire to be a little extra cautious. Uh, Chief Lewis, I want to thank you so much on behalf of Eastern Ontario, CCI Eastern Ontario, for being here today. There I've I have learned a ton just by preparing for today and talking with you today. So we're just grateful for your time. I anticipate uh a future podcast as well, because there's there's too much to talk about in just one setting. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks for tuning into the condo pod, your source for all things condo in Eastern Ontario. Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And share this podcast with your fellow condo community. For more resources and upcoming events, visit us at ccieasternOntario.ca. Until next time, stay informed, stay connected, and keep your community strong.

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Joshua Vanhooydonk

Host
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Mike Lewicki

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Nancy Houle

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