Introducing The Good Girl Complex Series

What happens when you stop trying to sound put together and tell the truth instead? We pull up a chair for some honest table talk, the kind that starts with laughing about quirks and ends with naming the deeper patterns we all carry. Along the way, we even call our husbands and ask them to describe our toxic traits and yes, they answer. It’s light, a little uncomfortable, and surprisingly clarifying.

From there, the conversation moves into the real heart of so many women’s stories: the fear that there isn’t room for us at the table. We talk about where that fear can begin, how middle school moments and performance pressure can plant “not good enough” beliefs, and how control can become our way of avoiding discomfort. 

If you’ve ever rehearsed conversations in your head, overthought yourself into a spiral, or tried to earn belonging by being the “good girl,” you’ll feel seen.

We also talk about discipleship, false narratives, and why the narrative of Scripture matters when your brain is building worst-case scenarios. Grace is not just something we offer other people; it’s for us too, and receiving it can feel like surrendering control. 

We end by sharing why we’re launching a new Good Girl Complex series!

Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs a seat at the table, and leave a review so more women can find these faith-filled conversations. 

What part of the “good girl complex” do you want us to talk about next?

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Transcript

Welcome To The Table

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to the Table of Grace podcast, where every woman has a seat, every story matters, and Jesus is always at the center. We're here to create space for real conversations and faith-filled stories that help you grow in your walk with Jesus. So grab your favorite cup of coffee and pull up a chair, because at his table, there's always a seat for you.

Why We’re Doing Table Talk

Tessah 0:30

Hey guys, welcome back to the Table of Grace podcast. I am Tessa Lubkey and I'm here with my co-host, Courtney Newberry.

Courtney 0:37

Hello, hello.

Tessah 0:38

We are going to do a little bit of a different thing today. Courtney suggested it, and I actually love the idea, but a little bit of table talk. Table talk. It's what we're gonna do. It um we're gonna go for it and kind of this idea of just having a little bit of conversation, maybe talking a little bit about what's going on in our lives, but maybe even get get you guys to know us a little bit better because I think that's really important for you to know your host and who you're listening to.

Courtney 1:04

Well, and and and I think that vulnerability is super important, but I think it's really important for you also to know that um I screw things up a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

Yeah, same.

Courtney 1:14

And I have quirks. Um, I had a friend tell me the other day, she was like, I love all your quirks, and I was like, uh I don't. Um, but I I need to learn, you know. And so that was kind of my thought with like table talk. And I think that we spend so much time trying to be distracted that we forget how to have that conversation. So we thought about kind of doing like some rapid fire like questions that are, you know, kind of funny. Yes, um, but also kind of serious. Um so I'm gonna throw

Asking Our Husbands Our Toxic Traits

Courtney 1:41

one out there now. Oh, oh, do we need to tell them what we did with our husbands?

Tessah 1:46

Oh my gosh, yes. That was actually really funny. So Courtney was like, let's do some rapid fire questions, let's get let the let's let our listeners get to know us a little bit better. And I was like, Well, she asked something about like what's your toxic toxic trait, and I was like, Oh my gosh, I should call and ask why. And then you were like, actually, let me call and ask Nick. And it was really funny.

Courtney 2:01

I called him and um he uh was afraid.

Tessah 2:05

And you could you could sense the fear.

Courtney 2:07

He was, he was, yeah, but then he also knows like he's married to a therapist and I don't want some like surface level answer, you know. So he really gave me what I asked for. Um, and so I said, Hey, I need you to not think about it, and I just need you to like to answer the question and fill in the blank. What is my toxic trait? And he goes, Uh sometimes you're critical. Yeah, and he's not wrong.

Tessah 2:29

Yeah, sometimes I'm pretty critical and our husbands unfortunately usually knows the best and the worst, right?

Courtney 2:35

Well, and I thought he would say, like, I'm always late, or the house is messy, and I leave things all over the place, or I have a chair for not fully dirty laundry, but I'm gonna wear it again.

Tessah 2:47

Yeah, half-clean chair.

Courtney 2:48

Yeah, but it's not clean enough to hang it up with the rest of the clothes.

Tessah 2:51

Right now, it used to be that, but it's a podcast.

Courtney 2:53

Yeah, so I have also taken the chair and the desk over um as the I'm gonna wear that again soon chair. Right.

Tessah 3:00

Yeah, and then it's been six weeks and it's still there. Yeah, absolutely. Because the weather's changed, yeah, and I don't need it. Right. Um, then it just goes into storage after after it's at there perfectly. I have the same, I literally have the same chair. Um, I called Wyatt and he was trying to be a good husband um at the beginning, and then Courtney and also obviously.

Courtney 3:17

I set the baseline, I let him know what Nick said. Our husbands used to work together also so like they know each other.

Tessah 3:22

Yes, yes, very closely. And I was uh he was like, you don't have a toxic train. I'm like, ha ha ha. This is such a lie answer that you're giving me right now. Um and then he was like, Well, uh, you you tend to put blame on people when it's not their fault. I'm like, ha ha, you're correct. Okay, this is too deep of a response. We're gonna we're gonna hang up now. Um, anyways, but it's so true. I feel like it is um literally your biggest mirror usually can be your spouse. Um I'm sure your kids, once Jackson's able to start talking, I'm sure that will be fun.

Courtney 3:54

Oh.

Tessah 3:55

Can't wait.

Courtney 3:56

You have no idea.

Tessah 3:58

No filter.

Courtney 3:59

You have no idea. Um,

Long Day Routines And Couch Paralysis

Courtney 4:01

so one of my questions here that I have is like, what's your what's your long day routine? Like when you've had a long day, like how would someone know?

Tessah 4:10

Oof. Well, definitely probably by my not so great attitude for sure. Um, my long day routine, if I'm going to if I'm de-stressing from the long day and not like sulking in it and being just mad about having a long day, um, I will probably, if it's good weather, I love to just like go outside and like we have a great walkable neighborhood. And I'm like really do. It's so great. I love it. Yeah, I'm jealous. Minimal crazy dogs, so that's even better. Um, and so we I will go usually with Jackson. It's even better if me and why can like walk together because I feel like it's such a great way to like detox today and just like hash it out and talk about it. And be like, I'm I'm w walking through this or I'm struggling with this, or this is what happened, and da-da-da. Um, and then I'm usually like after Jackson goes to bed, I'm like propping my feet up, me and white are watching some couch paralysis.

Courtney 5:01

That's how you know that I've had like a really hard day. Like I just hold the couch down, like that is my one job.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

Yes.

Courtney 5:07

Um, not something that I'm proud of. Um, but it's like I used all of the energy in my brain to to to function that I can't, and I get to be a permanent fixture on the couch until it's time to chase Mary around.

Tessah 5:22

Yep, yep. Yeah, um, another one you had said is uh this is actually I feel like a

When It Feels Like No Seat Exists

Tessah 5:28

really deep one. Was there when was a time where you felt like there wasn't room for you at the table? I feel like that's such a deep one.

Courtney 5:34

It does, yeah. So like it's like a circle back to like obviously table of grace and the whole like thought behind everyone has a seat at the table. Yep. Um, but I can think of so many times in my life when I haven't had a seat at the table.

Tessah 5:48

Yep.

Courtney 5:49

And wanted to control my husband also said that so many things. Like I I can remember in junior high, I was so worried that I was gonna be left out that I would send my boyfriend to lunch early so he could save me a seat. Yeah. And any of my friends from high school that are listening, you made fun of me for this. Yeah. And I understand why. And but I the idea or the fear of not having a space and was so much bigger that I was willing to try to micromanage and orchestrate anything that I could so that I didn't have to feel that uncomfortability.

Tessah 6:26

Yeah, that's so that yeah, I feel like that's so relatable. And when you mentioned the the table thing, I laugh because I always tell people I'm like a uh recovering control freak and like it's almost control, it feels like an addiction almost. Like it's this it's just like you have to actively work against it and pray against it, um, and release it over to the Lord. But I remember having, and I'm not really even sure where it started, but especially like going to dinner with friends or going to a restaurant, with especially with a big group. And I would sit there and play in my head, I mean, days before almost, or like at least 48 hours before. Okay, um, we're gonna go with these people, and like I'm gonna need to sit here and then like make sure that I can get this chair and like sit beside beside these people, and like literally walk through. And I remember I'm not really even sure when it stopped. I feel like it was one of those things where like I had to it was just a a season where I had to give over that like control and the control issues to the Lord in that way, but it's like I and I can definitely see now it was from this it's it's from a place of needing control because if you can control these things, you feel like you're at more peace, you're more comfortable. Um man, I feel like middle school is the worst of the world. Like you couldn't pay me billions of dollars to buy back.

Courtney 7:40

It's the birthplace of oh no, there's not room for me. And I think that so many women pick that up, um, and it gets ingrained into their experience and a part of mine, you know, like and and then there are different lenses, you know. Yeah, um, but there's not enough room for me.

Tessah 7:58

Mm-hmm.

Courtney 7:58

I think is a huge one that like probably a lot of you guys really struggle with.

Tessah 8:02

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think, yeah, any in in different spaces too, and even niching it down to like women in different areas, too. Like just feeling like I don't my voice isn't heard, or I don't feel in in different seasons, like you mentioned, Courtney, like even from an early, early age and into womanhood and adulthood, and and that just can I feel like can manifest itself in so many different ways. And I've also been like that. I feel like you probably are this way too. It's like uh me and my sister will always have conversations about this. It's like you're just like I'm you're just such an extrovert, like uh talking about me. And I'm like, I am like a I force myself. There's two parts of my brain. One of them that says, This is too scary, don't do it. And the other one's beating the that part of my brain and going, You're gonna do it, and you're gonna and you're gonna be confident when you're doing it. And so I feel like I have these. It's like a team make it. Yes, and so it's like just just walk through the door, you know, just walk through the door, and so like I'm constantly battling the like be okay, I'm just gonna go on the couch and like hide, and that way no one can disappoint me, no one can um perceive me a certain way, or no one can I can't disappoint anyone else. Tuck myself away, right, versus get in the room and do it anyway. So I feel like I definitely like that's sometimes the argument in my brain too.

Courtney 9:14

I bet that also like if you could play that out, then the argument could be correlated with where you are and how you're measuring it, like to the Lord. Yeah, like what part am I sending this to the Lord and what part am I holding this like in my flesh?

Tessah 9:28

Right, a hundred percent. Yeah. Uh and I think we're all such complicated beings in that way, just from experience, how we're wired, um the things that we walked through, how we were raised, the world view we have, and the view of God that we have. I mean, there's so many layers to that too. Um and I think when I look back at feeling like there wasn't room for me at the table, I'm like trying to I don't know if there's like specific um or if I've ever searched specifically for like okay, where I I have a qu what made you believe that there wasn't room for you at the table? Mm. Yeah.

Courtney 10:01

Because that kind of ties into like where we're headed.

Tessah 10:04

Yeah, yeah. I know, I know, and I'm trying to work I'm just trying to think of different situations, but I just I like when you say middle school, I think back to like these different, like almost almost becoming socially aware of like, oh, there's standards, there's expectations. There's certain ways I need to look or perform in order to become a part of your experience.

Control And Performance Stories From School

Tessah 10:23

100%, yeah. And so like I remember uh specifically, this is this feels like such a very small, small um in the outlook of my whole life, you know. But I remember in sixth grade we had sheer tryouts, and I I if you know me, I'm so competitive. And I'm like, I'm gonna get that I'm gonna get the spot. I'm gonna work, I'm gonna be the one hard working the hardest for it. Watch out, watch out. Jessie's here. I'm here. I probably didn't brush my hair or teeth, but I was there. Um, you know, we were we were doing our best. I'm sure my mom made sure my hair was brushed, but like I remember one of my absolutely best friends who were still breastfriends today. I was a mate of honor hair wedding a few months ago. Um, we tried all tried out together and she got it and I didn't. And that was like the thorn and the I mean like devastation, you know. And when you think back to it, you're like, Oh, I was like, you're not good enough, you're not like all these different things. Although what there was only one spot for like a sixth grader, was it the end of the world? No, was it the end of the world then? Absolutely. And so I think like back to those situations, and I so feel for moms who have especially just kids in general, because guys boys can experience this too, but specifically girls like going through the whole trauma of being a girl. Oh my gosh. And it's it is it was just so hard. And so, like, I think definitely back to that time where I'm like, Oh, well, I wasn't I even though I put in the work and did all things, it wasn't good enough. And I think that also led into the narrative that I've believed for a long time in trying to perform and do be do things a certain way and do and anytime I've ever done that, not anytime I've ever done that, it's been in my flesh, you know. It's not from the Holy Spirit, it's not from the Lord. Yeah, and so but it's also the the enemy that's brief that's speaking the narrative. And so we have to sh like even what I'm always learning is like okay, what is the narrative of scripture? What does God say versus what I even believe to be true? That's a lie.

Courtney 12:16

It's hard to catch yourself in a spiral though.

Tessah 12:18

100%, yeah.

Courtney 12:19

Because I don't know, like I I sometimes can be a good three, four, five days into a spiral before I'm like, what am I doing? Like, Courtney, who do you belong to? Why are you walking around and forgetting that you are the daughter of the king?

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Courtney 12:38

But that I've spent the last four days and it is trying to micromanage and plan things to avoid being uncomfortable when he already had the answers. He just needed me to look up.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

Yeah, yeah.

Tessah 12:50

It's so good. Um this is uh let's see.

Cheer Tryouts And Not Feeling Enough

Tessah 12:57

Would you consider your this another rapid fire question? Would you consider yourself an overthinker or an avoider?

Courtney 13:03

I am an overthinker until I feel broke. And then I will avoid. Yeah. So if like I had to do like a I'm a 90% overthinker, and then after I've spent 90% overthinking it and I feel really helpless, I kinda fall in like this freeze space, and then I just do it.

Tessah 13:23

Yeah. It's easier to avoid it. I think it I think it's situationally for me. Like some things I will sit and try to, we were talking about this before, like try to rationalize. Like I'm such a I'm such a rationalizer, is that a word? Um, I will sit down and go, okay, this probably happened because of this, and then this happened because of that, and da-da-da-da-da. And like I will try to put it's almost like you know those like CIA shows or like or the FBI, like where they have the whole wall. Missing people and specs, yeah, and they have like all the lines drawn. Yeah, and it's like that is me in my brain, you know. Like I'm constantly like, okay, this happened because of this, and then that and then this, and if that wouldn't have happened, then this wouldn't have happened, and like constantly trying to do that. And honestly, I felt so convicted by it because I've been in deeper discipleship at Central. It's just like a year almost like a year-long class. And one of the um, I don't know if it was like a it's a false worldview type thing, it's rationalism. And we went through all of these like false per perspectives where it's just like not sure it might some of that might be partially true. Like, yes, you can rationalize things, but it it wasn't based in scripture in the gospel, and so we like we it's obviously in that section was more about like okay picking up the narrative of scripture and making like that is your truth, and like that's something you walk in and and hold on to. But I felt so convicted because I'm like, oh my gosh, this is my false narrative that I'm gonna be able to do.

Courtney 14:42

Well, and it's so much easier than I'm because we've been doing it since we were 10. You know, yeah, like that's a well-old path in my brain for me to feel like a burden, yeah. Or for me to feel like I'm too much, yeah. Or you know, for or for me to feel unlovable, or that I need to prove that I deserve to be here, you know? Yeah. Um, and I think that once we really take on some of those lenses that we see the world through, unknowing them is I mean, I've done something for 20 years, I'm not gonna get it fixed in two minutes. Yeah, yeah. And I'm gonna fail at it. Yeah, and then that's gonna trigger the perfectionism and that I have to earn my worth or my keep. And so then I'm like in this crazy cycle with myself. Yeah, um, and that's where I think the table of grace peace really kind of comes in. Yeah. Because until I see and understand what grace is and how that plays out in my life and how that plays out in my relationships and even more my relationship with myself.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Yeah.

Courtney 15:42

Because you know, Jesus died on the cross for me too.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

Yeah.

Courtney 15:46

Not just for me to tell everybody about it.

Tessah 15:48

Yeah.

Overthinking Rationalism And False Narratives

Courtney 15:49

But for me too.

Tessah 15:50

Yeah, yeah, an application for ourselves. I think it's so much it is so much easier to give, I think sometimes to give other people the grace that you don't give yourself. Absolutely.

Courtney 16:00

And um Because then we give up control. When we give up when we accept grace, uh it's almost like an exchange for control.

Tessah 16:09

Yeah.

Courtney 16:09

And that's terrifying to us. Terrifying my own.

Tessah 16:13

And it's also admitting that like, oh, I don't actually have control over a lot. You know, we have control over very little things, and I think those things that we tend to um and you know, God gives us that free will to have have control over the choices that we make and the attitude that we have and the and the heart posture that we have, you know. Um but I think too, it just kind of runs into like and what we want this podcast and ministry to be is that no matter what you're walking through, what season you're in, like there is a place for you.

Courtney 16:45

Cause I think a lot of times I mean there's a ton of uh just like m mean people, you know, like yeah, like I don't have to I I don't have to sit at every table I'm invited to. Right. And I don't need to be at every table. And I wanting to be at the tables that are outside of God's will for me um are gonna set me up to feel uh disheartened and disconnected every time.

Tessah 17:09

Yes, yeah. And I think about I think to the um uh psalm where it's uh you know, the Lord's my shepherd, I shall not want, and it's it goes into like you set a table in the presence of my enemies. So sometimes even the tables we're called to aren't the ones that are nice, shiny, and put together. Like if God sets us a table and you know, David's writing this, he's literally like running for his life, I'm pretty sure, with within this psalm from you know, trying to get killed by that's all. Yeah. And so it's just kind of crazy to think, okay, put yourself in David's shoes where you're actually being pursued by your enemies, and um, it's just to know that God is with us in the presence of the hard things that we're walking through, and he wants and sometimes he he puts us in rooms that are hard and on purpose, on purpose, yeah, and puts us in and allows things to happen that are hard because they usually those hard things are what bring us back to him and put us back in his will.

Courtney 18:05

Um or get us prepared for a task he has for us, um, something that he may or something he knows that is coming.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Yep. And preparation.

Courtney 18:14

Yeah, absolutely. He being hard-pressed is uh an uncomfortable thing. But when you're hard-pressed in a situation that God has blessed and he is sitting with you in, and you are walking in his will, beautiful things come on the other side of it.

Tessah 18:29

A hundred percent. And that kind of just kind of runs into uh and why we obviously I think I mentioned this at the beginning, but why we wanted to kind of do a little bit of rapid fire for you guys to get to know us a little bit better is because we really are about to start a new series. Um, Courtney so excited, it is super exciting, and it's so Holy Spirit um led because I had been thinking about it and I had not texted Courtney about it, and then she texted me the exact same topic, and I'm like, okay, this is affirmation, we're gonna do it, I guess. Okay, deal. Yeah, sure. I'm like, I was I honestly uh to in the light of transparency and vulnerability, I was like, I know Lord, you're telling me to do this, but I don't want to do it because I don't have to be vulnerable and transparent. This is a lot of like deep story. So if I start crying at any point during the series, just know I'm okay. Courtney's here. She'll have tissues, probably. So um, we are going to say you're laughing because it's so true. She should I think, yeah, you were there that I'm gonna do a very I'm gonna chase a squirrel real quick, but it's it relates to

Grace As The Exchange For Control

Tessah 19:25

this. You probably are but we at in our live group a few months ago, or maybe within the last year, we all short shared our testimony, and it was so powerful to sit around the room with people that we've rubbed elbows with in a long time. We've been in group together forever. Yeah, and like I bought you a present when your baby was born, right? Yeah, so it's like it but to sit and hear everyone's testimony was so powerful because there were so many times we were sitting there, we're going, oh my gosh, me too. Like, oh my gosh, me too. Or like, oh my gosh, I cannot bel I can't believe it.

Courtney 19:52

Well, I think that's when we kind of realized we were might have been the same person, we're real similar.

Tessah 19:56

Yeah, so we're like, oh, well, you've walked through that. I can understand that. Um, and so me and Courtney's testimonies are very similar in a lot of different ways. Um, and obviously have their unique things to them too. But I think it's something that if we both have walked through it, we've other we know other people that have walked through it, that we can we can speak and talk about talk to it, but also just bring bring it back to Jesus in a way of like, okay, this is what we've walked through. This is some of the things that we think some other people might also be struggling with, and how can we bring it back to scripture? And so I actually love the name that Courtney got for it because I was gonna do like the good girl series, but girl, good girl complex is so much better. It's a complex, it is such a complex, and mine started when I was nine or ten. I'm sure I yeah, I'm I probably same or earlier.

Courtney 20:42

If I'm a professional at anything, it's that I need to to be a good girl.

Tessah 20:47

Mm-hmm. Yep, a hundred percent. And so I I could totally agree with that, and I think uh there's so many layers to this, so we'll probably navigate a ton of different things. We have we kind of have the episodes lined out, but we are we might we might get to a place where like, ooh, we need to talk about this, we need to talk about this. So we're not sure how long the c series is gonna be, but we are gonna make sure we cover a lot of it.

Courtney 21:09

Um yeah, and so like with the idea that we can tie this to like women we are familiar with in the Bible, yes, yeah, and like the struggles that they may have. So like if we look at like um I'm a burden, I'm too much, you know, or I have to earn my worth, you know, every you know, yeah, everybody knows about Martha. And so we can talk about like her story and her lens and how she viewed the world and how that's still something that like we struggle with today. Um maybe that's what we look like within our own internal struggle, and then like really like challenging ourselves to kind of sit with it. And what does that look like if I make the decision to not be a Martha? What does that look like if I step into the light of knowing that my worth is only determined by the savior that hung on the cross for me? Yeah, and I can go to work hard every day, but that's that's that's not where the the meat and potatoes is.

Tessah 22:05

Yeah, that's not where my value comes from. Of and I think that's it is such a powerful thing to walk through it and to believe it for yourself. And I would say that neither neither of us are exactly professionals at like, oh,

Good Girl Complex Series And Next Steps

Tessah 22:19

we've overcome this a hundred times. Oh, I've overcome nothing.

Courtney 22:22

I am have all kinds of awareness. Maybe I'm a jack of all trades with awareness.

Tessah 22:26

Maybe that's what it is. But I don't know.

Courtney 22:28

Very aware. I'm gonna work sometimes. Yeah. And sometimes I'm still, you know, yeah. I think that knowing that we're starting this with the intention of that we imagine that other women um probably have felt a similar way about things before.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah.

Courtney 22:44

And, you know, in just the the essence of vulnerability, and we talked about kind of in the last episode, like if I'm going to trust God, I gotta be vulnerable and let him know what that looks like. And so some of this is also like an attempt for women to know what vulnerability looks like. Um it's really hard to talk about like struggles or things that you have experienced.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Yep.

Courtney 23:08

And you know, like I think that there are probably a lot of people listening that the idea of saying, you know, or just even like acknowledging I'm not worthy of being loved, like saying that they have that thought sometimes would bring people to tears, you know. Um, and so I don't want to normalize it because it's okay. I want to normalize it because you're not alone.

Tessah 23:28

Yeah, a hundred percent. And you haven't been because this happened in in the old testament even yeah, thousands of years ago, people have been struggling with this. Um, and I I love scripture for that because they don't leave out the messy stuff, and so like I love even like the Old Testament authors, like they they add they leave it all in Testament.

Courtney 23:46

Yes, it's so good, such a reminder of our need for Jesus.

Tessah 23:50

Yes, a hundred percent. Um, and yeah, I'm super excited to get into the series and just all the different things. So in the next next episode, we're gonna dive into really the first episode one of the Good Girl Complex series. So if you have any questions uh or any suggestions about what you'd like us to hit on in light of that series, feel free to let us know. And make sure you follow us at our new pages at Table of Grace and the Table of Grace podcast on Facebook. Um, but we're gonna dive into the next episode. So I'm super excited. Stay tuned and be sure to have your notifications turned on for when we go live for the next one. We'll see all you good girls soon. Go ahead and get your notebook out and get ready.