During School Hours With Joel Penton

Joel Penton is the founder and CEO of LifeWise Academy, a nonprofit that provides Bible education to public school students during school hours through released-time religious instruction programs.

A former football player at Ohio State Buckeyes football, Joel is also a speaker, author, and community leader dedicated to youth development and faith-based education. He wrote the book During School Hours, which shares the vision and growth of LifeWise Academy  

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The parents see the results and the kid is talking about it, right? They're coming back to it. Listen to what I learned about it. Hey, have we ever thought about this? And the stories we hear of now the families reading the Bible together and how the families can plug into church. The public school students can be released from public school during school hours to attend religious classes. If the program is off school property, privately funded, and students have parental permission. This was a case called Zorak v. Clawson. We provide a plug-and-play program that any community across the country could implement to reach their local public school students with the Bible. We have a program in Northwest Ohio that the school has a thousand kids in the school. Yes. Well, 900 of them are in LifeWise. That's awesome. And so five times a day, five days a week, the 72 passenger bus pulls up.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

It's two classrooms worth of kids. They get on the bus, head down the road, go into their classrooms, get their lesson, get back on the bus, go back and get another group.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

All right. Welcome to Turn Up with Pastor Charlie. First of all, I'd like to say thank you to the River Radio's podcast studio for the space that we now occupy, to broadcast worldwide, and to our visionary Burton Stephanie Lindsay and the Lindsey Foundation and all of our partners, local churches, schools, 501c3s, nonprofit organizations who have come beside us all for the well-being of the community. As always, I'm excited about my guests that are in the studio. But today I'm even more excited about someone by the name of Joel Penton. Joel, say hello to the watching and listening audience. Hello, everybody. Thank you, Pastor Charlie. It's great to be here. It's great to see you, man. Joe Penton is an Ohio-based nonprofit leader, former Ohio State football player and humanitarian Heisman recipient, public speaker and author. He founded LifeWise Academy, bringing Bible education into public schools communities through release time laws and has overseen its significance nationwide. And it is growing. So tell us a little bit about LifeWise. What is LifeWise Academy, Joel?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Yeah, thank you. Well, LifeWise Academy, as you said, we provide Bible education for public school students during school hours. Yes. That sounds strange to most people listening in 2025 because they think, wait a minute, public school, Bible, how can those go together? Right, right, right. We are all too aware that decades ago our nation systematically removed Bible education from the public school day. What few people know, although the numbers growing, but what not many people know is that it's possible to put it back, that it's possible to reinstall Bible education for public school students through a little known but legal practice that you mentioned called release time religious instruction. So uh again, uh this little-known thing back in 1952, the Supreme Court ruled that public school students can be released from public school during school hours to attend religious classes if the program is off school property, privately funded, and students have parental permission. This was a case called Zorak v. Clausen. Sadly, it kind of just went under the radar, unnoticed for the most part for 70 years. I mean, that was 1952. Yeah, so this thing of release time, you know, kids being released from school, getting to learn the Bible and going back to school. Yeah, it was happening here and there in pockets around the country, but for the most part, people didn't know about it. Well, long story short, we learned about it, or at least I was introduced to this because the people in my hometown started a release time program. They they had uh incredible and saw incredible impact, and they asked me, you know, what uh how could we see this expand or spread, or why don't more communities have it? That's really how LifeWise was born, and that's what we do. We provide a plug-and-play program that any community across the country could implement to reach their local public school students with the Bible.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah, that's amazing. Like you said, 70 years that it's kind of like unaware or swept under the rug, or not um, no one uh looked into it again, you know. Like we're comfortable with taking prayer or school prayer out of the schools, and we're like comfortable, we accept it, you know. No one dug into it. So dug into it, found out like, wait a minute, something's missing here. And uh, here's an answer. So um I know a little bit about it, but share with our watching and listening audience um that process. What does it look like for a child who agrees who have to have parents' permission, right? Right. Yeah, talk us through what that one, what does that time look like?

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Yeah, so it's it's fairly simple to explain, it's uh less simple to implement, which is what kind of why we exist to have the tools and resources for communities to implement. Um, but it's pretty simple, you know. It's we tend to start serving elementary school children. We will expand into middle and high school, but we tend to start at elementary. And so you think about an elementary school student schedule, they have all their basic classes that they get every day, math, and science and things like that. But they also have what are often called specials, they have art class that get they get maybe once a week, they have music class, gym class here and there. Well, with lifewise, they have another special that is Bible class. And so their parents will sign them up at the beginning of the school year, fill out a permission slip, then you need parental permission, and then once a week for that child, there's an opportunity. It might be during what would otherwise be a study hall, or it might be during what would be library time, or maybe it's during lunch and recess. We the lifewise team comes usually in a big red bus. Yes, and and students who are uh signed up are released and get on the bus, usually ride it like a half a mile down the road to the nearest church. Okay, and that's where they have a Bible lesson, and we teach students through the whole Bible, Genesis through Revelation, uh, over the course of their elementary school years. Yeah. Um, but they get their Bible lesson, then they get back on the bus and head back, and then usually another batch of kids then gets on. And so our largest programs can be very, I mean, it can be uh quite an operation. We have a program in Northwest Ohio that the school has a thousand kids in the school. Yes. Well, 900 of them are in LifeWise. That's awesome. And so five times a day, five days a week, the 72 passenger bus pulls up.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

It's two classrooms worth of kids, they get on the bus, head down the road, go into their classrooms, get their lesson, get back on the bus, go back and get another another group. And so it's uh it can become quite an operation, but the impact is really um I mean it's huge and it's exciting to see.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Yeah, yeah. Um, that bus ride, from my understanding, has to be a certain amount of distance, so it's not very far bus ride, right? Yeah, the short restriction of that.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Well, there's no, I mean, there's no law about it. I mean, you know, we like to see it as close as possible. And that's just to maximize time. Okay. You know, if it a a certain portion, maybe 20% of our programs are next door and we actually don't even bust. I mean, if there's a church next to the school, yeah, um, and students walk, but almost every school has a church within a mile. Sometimes it's like just a block away. There are the rare instances that, especially if it's a country school, there might be a few miles. And so I I know of one program that the the bus ride is seven minutes each way, and that's an eternity for kind of our operations.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Kids and all the buzz, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Right. But in but in even in that case, you know what? Our teacher rides the bus with the students. She starts the lesson on the bus, she rides the bus back with them, and so it it where there's a will, there's a way.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah. Now, um off-air, you and I was talking, it's literally been five years. Uh, I remember the very first term meeting you were there. Yeah, explain um how it has grown from that first meeting of starting to you know, has some we had COVID, then we had a spur. Explain the growth.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Yes, it's been pretty wild. I mean, on one level, it's expected in the sense that we always from day one before we launched a single program, we had a nationwide vision. We believe this is something that the nation needs, and so we wanted to build something that could serve as a tool, could serve churches and communities all across the nation. So that was the idea, but we didn't necessarily expect the rate of growth. And so we started with two schools in 2019, and I think that's around the time the turn was starting to get up and running. Maybe it was I I don't know the exact months and things, yeah. But that's when we launched our first two schools. Well, those were two small rural schools. Um and well, I live here in central Ohio, and so from day one, even though I knew we'd start with some small schools out in the sticks, I thought we need to make sure that we have a program that can serve the suburbs and the inner city as well. And so we started having conversations even with the Lindsays and with others around town. Like, how do we make sure that this is something that's gonna serve schools in central Ohio? So, anyway, that was in terms of the growth. In 2019, we're having all these ideas and we launch our first two pilot programs. We have COVID that happens in 2020. Yes. We work with Turn on a learning extension center out of the Lindsay facilities.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Yes, that was a great it was great.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

It went well. We we laid some groundwork and we so we set the goal in 2020, even amidst COVID. We said, okay, we proved the concept in 2019 in a couple schools. Let's try to serve 25 schools by 2025. That was our big that was the that was the go.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

I know, I love this story. See, I know it. I'm sitting here like, I love the story. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Yeah, so that was we thought that sounded really cool, you know. So 25 by 25, and we even started, you know, raising some money to you know to do it. And and the very next year in 2021, we were serving 36 schools, and so like, okay, all right, go we overshot the goal. Wow, that was fast. And so, and that was the year in 2021 where we saw our first uh program in Columbus City Schools launched, yeah, actually, two schools, um Mifflin and on the and then uh Windsor STEM launched, and then we saw our first suburban schools launch in in New Albany. So, anyway, 36 schools. So we went back to the whiteboard and we said, okay, our goal was obviously too small, way too way too small. Kind of said that real softly too at the whiteboard. Not good at setting goals. So we did some math on what could the new goal be.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

And the math was putting us a new five-year goal. We always set five-year goals. So the math was putting us at close to a thousand schools. Wow. And so we said, you know what, let's round up, let's do it. So that became our five-year goal, a thousand schools by 2026.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

And long another long story short, we actually we got tired.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

So go ahead. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Well, we we've you know that when we set that goal, you know, we heard as you can imagine, people saying it's insane. Saying, Yeah, what are you doing? You don't have the infrastructure, you don't have the team, and all that was true. We didn't have the team or infrastructure, and so again, we had to raise raise money and get to work, but the Lord blessed it, we outpaced that goal. To stay on pace for that goal, we should be serving 650 schools this school year. Okay, in the 25-26 school year, and then to hit a thousand next year, but we're actually gonna eclipse a thousand this school year. In fact, we'll be in over eleven hundred by end of school year. We're confirmed already in thirteen hundred schools, a couple hundred are probably gonna launch next school year. Um, but it's anyway, to go from two schools about five years ago to now over a thousand. Yeah, um, it's been pretty wild and it's been a learning experience, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Amen. Well, I can imagine it's been some challenges uh because uh Turn was launched around the same time as well. And you know, we we we our plans was like, yeah, we just get started, see what God's gonna do. Right. And you know, we have some some rough roads going, but yet now we have so many partners. I mean, we have over 500 partners. Oh wow, you know, we have um a lot of resource connections. It's just amazing. We didn't, we didn't I can't say we didn't see this coming because the goal envision is to have a turn on the east side of town, have a turn on the north side of town, you know, turn and up in New Albany, a turn on, you know. So we you we have goals to do that. Yeah. So to um see where we're at now.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

And I just ran I ran into some and now I can't remember. I wish I could re I used to be able to remember things. I can't even I think was in from out of town or something to go and visit with the Turn team to learn uh to learn about Turn to even take it to another city.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

So it's yeah, we yeah, that is possible too, of course. Um Lexi Lexi. Uh Ashley is in Lexi Ton, Kentucky. So, you know, um there's some possibility there. Um we had someone come from where did they come from Detroit? They came down to our meeting, Toledo. I think Toledo.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

I think that was perhaps what the connection was, or maybe I was hearing it through Vince, which is another chapter of the real turn chapter of our story, which continues. Yeah, it you know, in God's providence, it's amazing. All the many things he's doing at the uh accomplishing at the same time, you know. Um, but yeah, the way that LifeWise was getting going at about the same time Turn was getting going. Yes. And I know we're just one of the 500 partners or whatever, but especially for us getting started here in Central Ohio, Turn has was absolutely critical. In fact, it probably doesn't happen without Turn. Right, it really doesn't. I mean, it was because we really got started on the east side through Turn relationships. Yes. And the Turn meeting where I spoke briefly, where I shared about the lifewise vision, who was sitting in the meeting was Vincent. And that's where I had talked with Bert about, you know, Bert said this lifewise vision is really great. You know, what will it take? And I said, Bert, it's gonna take finding someone who may not exist, it's gonna take finding someone who grew up in the city, who has ties to the education community, who has ties to the church community. And I said, and I started describing this person. I'm like, I don't know if they're even out there, but we're gonna have to find that person. I go and speak a turn, and he's sitting in the room. And his name is Vince Coleman, who led the charge. So it's really been critical.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Um I've talked to Vince a couple times, and and I've we got to get the story clear and straight how what caused him to be there. Yeah, because see, I knew or I know um Bishop Kenny Moore. Okay, so when we were having the meeting, I was the person who made contacts for um the networking. I got the network of getting the inviting. So I called him, I said, Hey man, I need you to come to this meeting. Um, you know, we and this was the the table meeting before we had the meeting in the theater.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

And he's like, he said, well, tell me about so I explained what we were trying to do. He said, sound like y'all, yeah, y'all, y'all not there yet. He said, um, and plus I'm gonna be out of town. He said, but I'm gonna I'll send somebody. So his daughter came. He said his daughter, yeah. She's the one that ran um the LE LEC for New Birth. Oh, is that right? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So his daughter came, Bonita. So um, and Vince was there. So I don't know how that meeting?

SPEAKER_00 16:32

At the that's the meeting. The table the table meeting.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

The table meeting, um he didn't send anybody. She came, Bonita came to the first term meeting in the theater.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yeah, well, that was well, the one uh here's the all I know of the story because I didn't know that I laid out eyes on Vince. Um I was at the front of the room and spoke. He was in the back of the room. He said if I recall, you you can have him correct the story, but he said he was there, he didn't really want to be there. Maybe somebody twisted his arm to be there. He said that he was on his phone, like doing email or something, and he heard the heard us say Bible education during school. He said he did one of those where he didn't even move his head up, he just kind of looked up, like, what are we talking about? Because he's a former principal. Principal, yeah. And then he said he just listened and we just we described our need and that he felt like it was describing him. Yeah. And in fact, then I was talking with a group. Steve brought, I guess he talked to Steve. Steve brought Vince up to me and said, Hey, Vince wants to talk about this role. So and it, I mean, yeah, I mean, he took the job right away. It was off to the races.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Yeah, it's been a blessing. Vince is one of my spiritual brothers. We uh pray together every Saturday morning. So I'm gonna have to revisit that conversation with him. Uh, how did you get to turn, Vince? Well, I've heard him tell the story.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

He says the the clouds parted, the heavens over the sound of it. Besides that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Um, but nevertheless, it has just been an awesome journey. Um how is um ministry seeing life change with life-wise?

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Yeah, well, we uh it's such a joy. We get kind of a front row seat to see the power of the word of God and the gospel. And um one of the things we do, um we we we talk about being a storytelling culture within lifewise. We recognize that rightly remembering God's faithfulness increases our faith in Him and keeps us on the right trajectory. Yeah, and we recognize that the people of God have always been storytelling people, that the most uh real estate in the Bible is taken up by the retelling of the Exodus story over and over. And so one of the things we do is have our local program directors once a month, they fill out a form that says how things are going and they put some stories in there of the impact they're seeing. Well, we get to read those as they come in, and so sometimes it's a hundred stories a week will come in and stories of uh families getting reconnected to church, you know, kids being um baptized. Um I just read a story to our team uh yesterday morning about um there was a volunteer w at one of our programs that her husband passed away. Okay, and to hear that the kids all coming together and praying for this volunteer and the kids being confronted with the reality of death and talking about that death is not the end, that we're eternal, and that her husband is is now with the Lord, and just that these aspects of life that uh sadly, as you think about our culture, we've marginalized, you know, faith used to be more central in our culture, absolutely. And so those types of conversations were more regular, people talking about even like death, and people but now it's been pushed to the side, and we live in this um you know, this um protected or almost this bubble wrap as though there's not pain and suffering and death and whatnot in the world. And kids know that's ridiculous, right? Because they experience it, they look in the mirror and they realize that they're they're fallen and they're sinners, and and they look around and people do die, and you know, all these things, and that's why you end up with anxiety and depression and suicide and shooting each other, and you know, and so we have the opportunity to break through that and right in the middle of the school day say, No, these things are real, so let's talk about eternity, let's talk about God, let's talk about why you feel so broken inside, and then we're seeing the fruit of of changed lives.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Yeah. Where you go after death, you know, have those conversations. And the kids are seeing all this happening on television and on their phones, so they they they know us out there and they see it in firsthand in their schools. They they're they are seeing it firsthand. So being able to minister to them during those times and give them some biblical principles is essential. So yeah, great job. Appreciate that. Um how important is Bible education and biblical biblical literacy today?

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Well, it's important and it's growing more and more important, but because it's so lacking, uh it's important you could look at it from a few different angles. I mean, you and I are believers, um, and so we know that the word of God is eternal, it's living, it's active, yeah, it's uh it changes hearts, it's there's nothing more important. Um and so there are those intrinsic things that we already know. And so to those who are Christians, you almost don't even need to ask and answer the question, right? Um so maybe I won't even talk about those. Um but even from a purely I don't want to say pragmatic standpoint, um, it's critical. For one, there's no book that it has been more informed. Influential in the shaping of our society than the Bible and B I B L D that's exactly right. And so to think that someone could even have a well-rounded education without reading and studying the most influential book of all time.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Don't make sense.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

It doesn't make any sense at all. Yeah, why why yeah. Um so there's that, and then there's the decades and decades of studies that just clearly demonstrate that the connection between when a kid has Bible education in their life, everything else goes better in their life. They make better decisions. Absolutely. They're they have better educational outcomes, they are less likely to be fall into substance abuse. I mean, their mental health improves every possible metric. And that's one of the reasons why when we see the results we see, uh school uh educators aren't surprised when they see the positive outcomes because they already know this. Like they know that their best behaved kids, their highest achieving kids, their least problem kids are the church kids. Yes. Like they're they already know that. Yeah, so and and so then when we're able to come and say, hey, here's a real practical and legal way to get more of your kids into the Bible, into church, into the things of God, 90% of the time they're ecstatic about it. And then when they see the difference, they're they're they're not surprised. And and again, that's just purely looking at it pragmatically, when you and I both know it's not even about that stuff. Absolutely. It's about the eternal, it's about about God's creation glorifying him and being saved and and all of that. So anyway, it's I I can't we can't talk enough about how important it is.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Yeah, I and I believe that it also uh, you know, oftentimes you if you get the children, you get the parents, you know. Oh, for sure. So as we know that. And with the children having a um the foundation that they are receiving through LifeWise, then they go home, tell their parents, the parents are seeing the change in them, the parents are seeing that their attitude is getting better, the parents are seeing they speak in more positive and hearing that they speaking more positive, then they're like, Where the okay, all right. Right. Well, maybe we need to go to okay. And what church was it's domino?

SPEAKER_00 24:22

It's a vi it is a very natural domino effect. And it's and it's meeting our culture right where we are. I mean, you have a lot of parents that I don't, you know, they've been busy, they've been living their life, and maybe they have a background in church, maybe they don't. But now they have kids and they they want the best for their kids. Yes. And they, but maybe they don't know exactly what to do, and they want kids of good character. And they're they're trying to invest in their kids in in every way. They're trying to be like, okay, what sports do I put them in? What school are they? All of this. And then there's an opportunity for them to receive Bible-based character education. And so they think, that sounds really great. I mean, of course, yeah, that sounds great.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Doesn't cost me anything.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Doesn't cost, it's part of the school day. Maybe they take them to church, maybe they don't. More often than not, they don't. Well, now they're they put their child in and the kids getting this knowledge, and the kids, the parents see the results. Well, and the kid is talking about it, right? They're coming. Listen to what I learned about today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, have we ever thought about this? And the stories we hear of now the family's reading the Bible together, now the family's getting plugged into church. I was just preaching in a church east of town, and um a family came up to me and said, Hey, thanks so much. We're here today uh because of you. And I was like, Oh, great. I, you know, I thought they came to hear me speak. And they said, No, we're we're members of this church because we put our daughter in life wise. Yeah. She came home, said, Why aren't we going to church? We started coming, we all got baptized, we're all members, and now they're they're plugged in. And we hear that a lot.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Yeah, that's that's the domino effect that I've I've heard and seen uh personally, you know. That's the story that I really love to hear. Um, how it is making effect, starting with the the kids, um, touching the lives of the parents, and then parents are actually starting to attend the church that the kids start going, walking across the school, walking across the street to, or riding the bus down the street to. Now they're attending that church and having an impact on their community, you know. So that that is just beautiful. Um, being resourceful. So I'm gonna leave a few moments to you and say, is there anything that as you were driving over, he's like, you know, I want to make sure I share this um with the watching and listening audience, as well as um, how can people contact you if they want to be a volunteer, if they want to help, how can they support the calls?

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Yeah, well, maybe I would um just make a request. Um that is we would love to link arms with anybody through particularly through prayer. If we could be praying for our team, absolutely. You know, the it it the exponentially growing organization brings all sorts of challenges that we would never I like I would never have known. Five years ago when you and I Matt, uh, you know, I would never have imagined some of the things that are required, you know. The details and the and the things I'm hearing about in meetings, and it's not just about me, but it's about our growing team and our local teams out in the communities, right? And some communities everything just comes together, you know. Other communities it's a real uphill battle. Some communities there's people who are really actively opposing the work. There might be those who are really don't want kids to have access to the Bible or whatever reason. And it just the the challenges vary, and the larger we grow in some ways, the more there is kind of it feels like a target that those who would oppose the advancement of the gospel. Um and so we're not fearful of that, you know, or very bold. And yet we know that it's gonna take the Lord to overcome challenges and take the Lord beside us. And so we would just I'd I'd greatly value prayer for all of our teams, whether it's our staff or volunteers or families of our team.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Um, so that's thing, and then how people can get connected really through our websites the best way. There you go. Lifewise.org, L-I-F-E-W-I-S-E.org. And what's um what we I'd invite everybody to take advantage of on our website is that you can look up any school district, in fact, any school building in the nation and find out what the status is with LifeWise. And so, especially if you're here in Central Ohio, we LifeWise is in nearly every school district, yeah, but not maybe not yet at every school building. So you can go on, search the school district, look up is there already a LifeWise? Is there one at the school building that's nearest to me? Maybe you have a child, you could enroll your child. Maybe that's something you could volunteer or get engaged with your local school district, or maybe you're listening, you're out of town, and you can actually help get one started. Yeah, um in your district. So, in any case, yeah, we'd love to connect with people at LifeWise.org.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Hey man, great, that's awesome. Well, Joel, I really appreciate your time. I know you're a busy man. I know you're extremely busy. Um, and I want to thank you for taking time out to share with us and um bringing awareness to the watching and listening audience about LifeWise Academy and what they are doing, how they are having an impact on our children, our parents, and our community. So I want to say thank you again and uh uh just for spending time with us today. So um appreciate you, man. Appreciate you, man. Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

It's an honor and a privilege. Great to be with you.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

All right. So before we go, before we let you go, uh I want to say, let's say, what can we say about Ohio State? So you were on that championship team. We got to get a little plug. You was on the championship. What team was you on?

SPEAKER_00 29:55

You was on I was there 02 to 06. So my my freshman team. I know this, but go ahead. My freshman year, I played, I well, I was redshirted, but I happened to be part of a national championship team. Yeah. And under Jim Trestell. And yeah, I was blessed. Uh beyond I think th three Big Ten championships while I was there, one national championship. Um, I was not a marquee player by any stretch of the imagination. I tell people if you remember me playing college football, then you care too much about college football and you need to check your priorities. But uh I was a I got to be on some great teams and have some great teammates.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Well, you you are a pitcher with a really good hit on one of the Michigan guys.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

So that's my blind squirrel moment.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

So again, man, congratulations for all your success and success um personally and business. So again, I appreciate you, man. Uh, it's been five years since we connected, and you know, we don't see one all the time, but we see one another periodically, and it's always uh original, original and genuine uh greeting from you. I appreciate that. I value your friendship and thank you for what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

So same thank you.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

All right, all right. So we want to thank you for listening to um turn up with Pastor Charlie, and we also would like to thank the River Radio um podcast studio for their space that we now occupy to broadcast worldwide. And we also like to say thank you to our visionary Burton Stephanie Lindsay and the Lindsay Foundation, all of our partners, local churches, schools, 501c3's nonprofit organization, who all has come beside us for the well being of our communities. Uh, so we say thank you and God bless you.