When Did We Stop Dancing?

Remember when getting ready to go out was half the fun? When you could dance without wondering who was watching, your kids still needed you for everything, and a random object from childhood could instantly transport you back in time?

Yeah. We remember too.

This week, Maria brings up the unexpected connection between nostalgia and grief - and somehow that takes us from childhood memories to losing parents, watching our kids grow up, getting older, missing versions of ourselves we used to know, and wondering when some of the freedom we once had quietly disappeared.

We talk about the things we'd do differently, the things we wouldn't change at all, and why Jeanine believes even the hard parts of life brought her exactly where she was supposed to be.

And somewhere along the way, Maria gets an impromptu therapy session, Jeanine discovers she may actually be a goldfish, and were both left wondering:

When did we stop dancing?

It's a conversation about grief - but probably not the kind you're expecting. It's also about nostalgia, aging, regret, acceptance, and learning to appreciate where you are without pretending you don't sometimes miss where you've been.

As usual, we solve absolutely nothing. But we had one hell of a conversation.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to Brainscot and Bold. We're happy to have you here with us as always.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Welcome, Janine. Welcome, Maria. Thank you. Welcome, people. It's nice to have you all. Yes. It is nice to make yourself known.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Is this gonna be another one of your commercials? Nope. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Like, comment, subscribe, follow, and share.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

A quiet commercial. A quiet commercial is still a commercial. Yes. Fine. Exactly. Fine. Okay.

unknown 0:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

I am once again, and as usual, happy to have you sitting across the table from me. I'm happy to be here. Yes. Yes. I enjoy being in your presence very much. Same Z's. Same Z's.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

So what's on your mind today? Oh, goodness. That's that's a loaded question.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Yeah, yeah. Depends on the What are the top three topics that are sitting on your brain today? Don't give me the list.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Well, I will tell you there are two things that have come up. And you and I have talked just very briefly about both of them. One is nostalgia, and the other is grief. And I actually am kind of putting them together in a way, which is weird, right? It is weird. Yes. So hear me out. Uh I spend some time on Instagram, probably more time than I would like. And on there, I have gotten in my feed a lot of reels that are based on nostalgia. So if you grew up in this certain decade, you're getting reels that are replaying, basically, taking you back to that place in time when you grew up or when you were a teenager and that sort of thing. I can I can picture some of those. Yes. And I mostly I love those. And they show you objects that you had or that you played with or that were a part of your everyday life that you've totally forgotten about. They're locked away somewhere in the in the deep recesses of your mind. And those reels are, oh my gosh, I totally forgot about that. And how I wish I could hold it in my hands and feel it and you know have the experience. It's so fun.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And for me, this is probably gonna sound strange, but I love that feeling. And at the same time, there's an element of pain that comes with it. So I've said sometimes that nostalgia feels like pain. But it's like, oh, oh my goodness. It's almost a yearning for whatever that is that you're remembering. Yeah. And it's a yearning and a wish for that to be real again or to be present or to be whatever it is. Insert the blank.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

And so then, you know, as I start thinking about why is that? And, you know, you and I have talked a little bit about the topic of grief. And to me, grief means so many different things. Uh, it could be anything from, you know, you know, missing a friend to uh grieving someone who has passed away, or even anticipatory grief, which is you know something or is about to end, or you know someone's about to maybe pass away, and you kind of get yourself ready for that, even though they're still here presently. There's so much to it. So I'm interested in some of your thoughts around these topics. Uh, I will say to you that grief in and of itself is something that I was very foreign. It was very foreign to me prior to my dad passing away.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Okay. And so my introduction to this whole idea of grief came um in a pretty ugly way. Yeah. And a very personal way, a very very hard, painful way. Uh, it changed me in a lot of ways. And ever since then, I've been more aware of how we, collective we experience grief in a multitude of ways. Okay. And that's not just by death of someone.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

I think it's a helpful frame. And I like how you've connected the nostalgia with grief. It makes it a little bit more understandable. Because it's not something that I probably have connected. And I've seen those videos too on Instagram, and they always make me feel, you know, obviously the nostalgia of it. You can remember, you know, the Daisy phone. I can remember some of the things that are reminiscent of growing up and, you know, in some ways happier times, but they were more carefree, which is really ultimately for me what it was. Like I didn't have the responsibilities that I have today. I certainly didn't have the worries that I have, you know, today, because adulting is hard, right? But I would never have connected it to, you know, feeling grief. But ultimately that it is. You know, you're grieving a time gone by, you're grieving whatever. It's not necessarily the object, but it's what it represents. It's the time that it represents. And so yeah, I can absolutely, you know, see that connection. I don't typically feel melancholy for too long. Um, we've talked about it with other things that for me, it's like momentary and then it's gone. Grief, on the other hand, is certainly a much more permanent fixture. You know, it feels like, you know, the loss of my dad, the loss of other people that have been important in my life. But you make a really good point about it's not just death. It's loss of a relationship that didn't work out. Or, you know, I do remember like spring break fever, and then that Saturday, you know, you knew you had to go back to school or real life or vacation's the same way. You know, you have to go, and then you start anticipating the end of the fun that you're having because you got to go back to, you know, reality or whatever it is. So all of that makes sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Anything that there's an end or an anticipation of an end. I mean, grief might be a big word to use in some of these circumstances, but I think the point is that we all experience it for different reasons and at different levels. Um, for me, the experience of grief has been the most how do I say this? Um, it has allowed me to see the connectedness in people more so than I ever did before. So it's a universal thing. Okay. That uh yeah, I'll just I'll just leave it there for right now. Don't leave it there. I'll say more. Um it is something that not a lot of people talk about because I think it is so painful. It can be so painful. Yeah. And like take as an example the most extreme, and you spoke of your dad passing away, my dad passing away. When that happens, it can feel very isolating because people don't know what to say to you. Yeah. They don't know how to make it better, they don't know whether they should mention it or just pretend like it didn't happen. And uh in that experience, I I feel like people tend to then go more quiet and not want to talk about it because it's just not something you talk about. Yeah, you know? Yeah. Um I think that is starting to change. As an example, I think I share with you uh Anderson Cooper, I saw recently. He has started a podcast that's like strictly about grief.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Which is and weird, not weird. It's just it's hard to wrap my mind around.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Yeah. And it's, you know, he has um people come on there, most of the more famous people that we know that we've known or seen uh and expressing their own experiences of grief. And it is so powerful. Yeah. So powerful when you can connect to people who've had that same experience because it is brutal. At least for me it was. Um having lost, you know, your parent or or whatever is um, yeah. So I can't remember what your question was at this point.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

I don't either.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

But so a whole like for me, when I think about grief, and you made a comment at like you, it's hard to know how to say, like what to say to somebody and whatever. It's also like on the other side, and I'm gonna imagine you felt this way too. For me, you know, Daddy's girl, you just larger than life kind of relationship and presence in your life, and then it's gone, and everybody goes back to their normal lives, and you just want to go, it's everybody else has to stop. Just wait. Yeah. This guy is no longer here. Yeah. And I get why, you know, people have a hard time like knowing what to say and all of those things, but boy, you know, you just, you just like for me, grief was wanting everybody around me to stop and recognize how important it is. And no, you can't just go back to normal. I think about like the bereavement policies that a lot of companies have. Yeah. And when you go, you've got three days or five days, depending on the relationship. And some companies don't even give you any of it. Like, how do you put a time frame and then expect that person to come back and operate as normal when they're in some cases their whole life has shattered? It's somebody's partner, their child, their whatever. Just like it's just so devastating to me that we try to put these time limits on something that's just timeless. Like you can't, yeah, you know, it's been five years for me. I know it's been longer for you. And that grief is it changes. You know, it's not the same intensity, but it is still as present. Yeah. You know, and we yet we go on.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

I'm curious for you. You said you just wanted people to stop and recognize what would that have looked like to you?

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Their expectations, I again, this is again to Janine. Expectations needed to change. Don't expect me to function the way I normally do. Don't expect me to do the things to be what you need right now, because I can't be. I have barely enough for me for me to give something to you. And with that being said, people experience grief differently. There's some people that want to work through it. Yeah, you know, that want to like dive in and whatever. And I get that and I respect it. I'm not that person. Yeah. You know, I'm you've noticed this about me before that I cocoon. I want to just kind of like go about your business. Yeah. Ignore me over here. I'm over here doing my thing. Mm-hmm. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

So it would have been from a work perspective, especially, but is this true personally of people having needing to adjust their expectations of you? Yes. And I understand the whole, believe me, I get the whole bereavement leave policy thing. And that is a big one to chew because or bite off because it's like, so where's the line?

SPEAKER_00 11:31

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

We still have a business to run. Yeah, where's the thing? It's so difficult. Yeah. Um, because I totally agree with you. Three or five days, that is not enough time. Yep. But then how do we support employees, but also to your point, run the business? It's tough. It's really tough. There are some companies out there that are trying to do it right. Um, but anyway, yeah for another time. Um so, you know, I am curious. Give me one second because I've lost my train of thought here. I keep doing that for some reason. Um we were talking about the bereavement leave and the bereavement policies.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Well, and you asked me the question. The question you asked me too was is it the same for me personally as it is professionally? Right. And so it's a little bit different, but the expectations that my family has in me, because they're most likely grieving too. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

So is there an element? Well, let me give you a little bit of a story first. So when my dad passed away, uh I went back to work, you know, I may have taken the five days, I think is probably what I did. And I went back to work. And again, expectations are the same. Everyone's life is going on as though nothing happened. You feel as though none of this is important anymore. It just loses its importance, all of it. And so you feel a bit disengaged, I think is the best word to use. And I will never forget at that time. Um, the HR leader, it was about a month after my dad had passed away. And I had left my office, I went to the restroom, and I came back and she had put a card on my desk. And in it, she wrote this message. I'm gonna have shared this with you, and it said, This card is intentionally late because I remember when my dad passed away, how it felt like everyone just forgot and the world went on. Her message was something along those lines. And it was like, I I remember and I know that you're still, you know, grieving. I have told people that so much. I cannot tell you how impactful that was. Just to have the recognition, acknowledgement that yeah, it's a month later, and I know that that is not enough time to have gone by. You know, they couldn't provide me with more time off necessarily, and nor did I ask for that. But just having that acknowledgement, do you feel like that would have been helpful to you? Or would and again, you said everyone grieves differently. And that's where this gets tricky because some people would not want you to bring it up. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Yeah, it's it's hard. I mean, it's such a personal experience and process. One of the things I was noting, because we talked about like bereavement policy, which of course is you know the work side of it. But there's this part of me that goes, I wish, because it grieving doesn't happen linearly. Right. Right. So I might feel this way today, and then tomorrow's a good day, and I don't need to be hugged or whatever. But then six days from now, something hits me. That nostalgia picks up, right? Where you know, something that you heard or said or saw reminds you of that person. And so you're in that moment again. Like I wish there was intermittent bereavement the way there is with FMLA, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:12

So that you could go, yes, today's not a good day.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

I'm taking one of my five or whatever it is, so that person can take the time and space that they need in the moment because it's not needed every day. It's that month later pick-me-up card that yeah, I'm feeling kind of low. It's been a few days and it feels like nobody's, you know, understanding, and somebody like they saw you. And so it's that kind of stuff that I think that what happens to us as what the way humans really experience life is different than the way we write it as a business policy. Yeah. And so if policies can follow humanity, now there's always somebody who takes advantage. There's always, you know, this this stuff. And so that's why we've got guidelines and rules in place. But something like an intermittent so that today when I'm feeling down, I can have a moment to myself to go get a pedicure, go do whatever because it'll take me out of my funk. That would be lovely. You know? Yeah. It's so tough. And so for like the the personal stuff, I think it's harder. You know, it's it's easier to say at work, which is gonna sound counterintuitive, this is not a good day. So I need to take a personal day, I need to do whatever. But at home, you don't have the opportunity to take that personal day. You know, you're you're expected to be on and you're expected to, depending on how we are and who we are, and I'm this person, I'm expected to be on. And so if you have an off day with your people, it's much more noticeable.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Because you're usually on.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

And so, you know, that's a tougher one for me. But grief is tricky.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Yeah. Yeah. And I would say too, you know, going back to what we were originally saying, there are so many scenarios. We've been focusing kind of on grief when someone has passed away, but there's so many other areas where this comes up. And for me, it's been coming up lately in two other areas. One is my son getting older. And, you know, he's at an age now where, you know, I don't see him a lot. Yeah. He's got a lot of freedom. He has his own car now, right? So he can move. Yes. Or it's his license, I should say. Right, right. Um, and pretty soon there's gonna be even more freedom. You know, it's not gonna be long before and I feel at this point like my entire world has shifted. So now you're in that anticipatory breeze. Well, um I'm actually, now that you say that, I'm in between. I'm both grieving what was and grieving what is to come. At the same time. Yeah. It's it's brutal.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

And, you know, I I say all the time, I just miss him. I just miss my son, you know, because we were like peas and carrots, I say. We did everything together. We we were kind of like us against the world. And uh, I just don't think I ever realized how that would change. I felt like we were going to be the exception. Yeah. Yeah. I remember when he was young, it was so funny because he sometimes would be like, oh, teenagers are the worst. He would say that when he was young and like, yes, they are the worst. And I think I kind of just thought He will never be that he's not gonna be. And not that there's anything inherently bad about him. I mean, everything that I'm talking about is totally normal for him to experience as someone who's growing and to indulge. Yes. But uh, I'm not ready for all of this change. And I will tell you, I spend a lot of time crying about it.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

And on the flip side, I know you're proud of the man he's becoming. I know that all the things, but it does not take away the I miss my son, and I'm going to miss him even more when he goes off to college. Yes. Um two things can be true at once, as we say all the time. Yes, I know. You can be proud of him and for him, yeah, but also, you know, grieve.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

And then the other part is with me getting older, and I guess some people process this differently. But for me, I'm at this point where I'm starting to, I guess, grieve the loss of my youth. Uh, I said to my boyfriend the other day, I said, Oh, don't you don't you dismiss with like the excitement of getting ready to go out and you know, have fun and everything. And he's like, not really. Like, I do. Like, I miss the that's fun. I don't know what the word is, but this, I guess, a feeling that anything was possible. And yeah, I think that's what I missed.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

I mean, I don't know. I can see that. I remember, you know, getting dolled up. Yeah. And we would go dancing a lot. I can't tell you the last time, not only that I went dancing, but I also thought, let's go dancing. Yeah. Like there was not, but there is that excitement. There's very few things in my life now that I have that enjoyment, excitement because I'm preparing for it. Even if it's a great event, I'm going to somebody that I love's wedding or I'm doing this. There's that looking forward to that it's just not the same. Why it's not that is. That's a conversation for another time. Okay. I feel like for me, I don't have the same kind of freedoms. I don't allow myself the same kind of freedoms. Like when I was younger and we would go dancing, I would dance with a band in. I didn't care who was looking, watching, thinking that I moved my arm awkwardly or I, you know, made a funny face. Like it just wasn't. And now it is. I'm very concerned with how other people see me, present me, the space I use. Like I'm just very concerned with it.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

May I ask? Because it's almost flipped. Meaning, I would expect you to be more self-conscious when you're younger, and as you're older, become less concerned with what people think of you. And you said the opposite has happened.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Absolutely the opposite for me in physicality. Okay. There's other freedoms that I do have now that I didn't have then. Okay. But specifically physicality, you know, again, about dancing and how we show up. I'm gonna say, and this may be me blaming, but I'm gonna say it's a social media impact because you see all the time how we should like. You know, those memes that you see all the time, how I think I look versus how I do look. Yeah. That is a consciousness. I mean, it really is. And so I might think or might have thought that boy, I'm a great dancer. I'm great with rhythm. I have a great, like just sense of whatever. And then I see it on video or people making fun of the thing. And it's like, oof, I don't look that great. Okay. Right. And so those are the things. I mean, it's the same thing we talk about this podcast being audio versus video. Right. I hate watching the video. The audio, love, love, love, love. But the video, I'm not a fan of. So it's self-consciousness. It's that kind of thing. The flip side for me though, Maria, is when I start thinking about I'm much more confident in the words that I use. I'm much more confident in showing up at every table versus there was a time where I felt like it didn't belong in certain rooms. Yeah. I don't have that same, you know, concern feeling. I'm not as, I was never shy, so to speak, but um, I was certainly much more concerned about, oh, like what if I like I don't have that feeling at all? Much more confident in those kind of situations.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

And so you were saying that that present day, if you're getting ready to go somewhere that that you will enjoy, you still cannot have that same kind of excitement because you feel a loss of some freedom around it. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Self-imposed. I there are so many light bulbs going off for me right now. I have so many things I want to talk about with this, but I'm not ready yet.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Okay. Um, and so you you so for yourself, what would you say it is? Like in not having that like we're going out tonight. Now it's like, oh, we're going out. All right, let me get ready.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

I think for me, it's just um more of the adulthood that creeps in of the um responsibilities. You know, so as an example, you use the use the wedding as an example. So when you're going to a wedding, you have to figure out what the gift's gonna be, you have to pick out a card, you have to have the right dress, you have to get the shoes, yeah. How's your hair gonna be? Um, I get too caught up in all of the I have to do X, Y, and Z. It exhausts me. You know, because I already have so many X, Y, and Z and Z to do. I can't say that correctly. Um so I get that it becomes an obligation. Like everything becomes an obligation that I have to fulfill. Boy, I sound like a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

No, and you are a lot of fun, and there are a lot of obligations as an adult.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

But I allowed them to dream me more than I should. Okay. So in that case, yes, you have to get the card. Yes, you have to get the shoe, whatever. And so what? That's how I should be. And so what? We're gonna go and have a good time.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

And when when did it change that getting the dress and the like getting your hair done or doing your hair for it and figuring out the shoes? Like, when did that stop being fun? And it became an obligation.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

I think when it was piled onto every other obligation we have in our lives.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Well, because I I don't agree. Like I don't feel that obligation. Like when I get invited to the wedding, I don't immediately go, oh God, now I have to do this and this and that. Okay. Right? For me, sometimes it's about the interaction. It's about the people that I'm gonna have to sit, who am I gonna be sitting at the table with? Like that I might feel more, but the stuff that you described, that doesn't, that doesn't drain me. Yeah. That's not it. Like for me, again, it's like, who am I gonna be forced to talk to? Yeah. That I have no interest. Like I love the bride and groom, yeah, but I could care less about anybody else in that room.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

It's that kind of stuff. Yeah. That that would drain me.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

But again, there was a point in time where that didn't drain you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

So where did it change for you?

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Um I got to know people better. No, I'm just kidding. I think it changed for me when I no longer felt comfortable with me. I know it's a selfie, so make that face, but I do know that. Like I know that that's where that comes from. So it's not necessarily the um event itself. Like, I don't get the same because I know I'm not the same person who shows up anymore. Like there was a person who was thinner, who felt more confident in her body and all of those things. Now more concerned, whether it's on their minds or not, I make it as something that people are thinking. So, like, oh, Janine's gotten so fat, or oh, you know, her skin looks terrible, or she looks so old, or you know, those kind of physical, stupid things that shouldn't weigh on my mind, but do. And so that's where my misery comes from. Yes. Yes, yes, for sure. Oh, I wish I did. Because I was the person who danced. Right? I was the person who danced all the time. My cousin Rob and I, he's gonna hate me for sharing this. He's like a year younger than I. We had dance routines, and we would literally make our family sit and watch. Like, wait, everybody sit down, everybody sit down. And he was the youngest of his family, and it's just me and my sister, so I was the youngest anyway, but we were the younger ones with our cousins. And so we would literally, like fourth of July, when everybody gathered, that was our showtime. And I, you know, I continued to dance, and it was like freedom. I love to dance to, you know, freedom and whatever, but I don't allow myself to.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Do you ever dance when you're alone?

SPEAKER_00 27:38

No. Very rarely. I might chair dance, but very, very rarely. So that's my prison when you use that word. That's my prison. And so when did you put your prison? Like, what do you think initiated your prison?

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Where's the couch again? Holy cow. That's the beauty of these conversations. I know, I know. Uh, how do we get here, by the way?

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Um nostalgia and grief. Yes, I know, I know.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Um, because I miss being younger and I'm grieving I'm grieving. But you know, I don't miss being younger. Why do you miss being younger? What do you think you're missing? There's so much that I don't miss, but I think it's the uh feeling invincible is one of those things. Okay. Because now it's my mortality just feels so present all the time.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

And uh You're 10 years younger than I am. So feeling invincible.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

So do you look at me and go, she's the crypt keeper? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

It's 11 years, by the way, but it's okay. Yeah, we'll talk later.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

It's fine. I asked my mom last night, literally, so mom is sleeping with me right now in this whole sleeping arrangement in the house. And I asked her, mom, am I 56 or 57? And she said, Oh, you're 56. And I went, Okay, okay. And then a few minutes later, she goes, I think you're 57. Like my age is just so not a factor of my life. It is really not. I love that. And so, yeah, I do too, quite honestly. But I'm also keenly aware that there's people like you, like we were talking about the phone thing. You know, you're answering stuff on your phone where I want to go to the PC, where age becomes something. So, my point to you when you're talking about mortality being around the corner, I'm 10 freaking years older than you. Like, should I have I have one foot in the grave? Is that the way you look at me now? That I have one foot in the grave.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

No, no, no, but I don't want to get so morbid here. Let's back up. Let's back up.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

I think this is a great conversation. I don't find morbid in this.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

It is. It uh I just feel like so. Recently, uh I mean, not that I need to share what my you know issues are, but I had an issue with my knee, right? And I could barely walk. And this went on for over a month where I was in so much pain because I had this issue with my knee.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

And I it just sent me into this, oh my gosh, I can't, I I am never gonna be able to run again. I'm never gonna be able to do X, Y, and Z again. And a little bit of catastrophizing, of course. But it just makes me think, okay, my body, and I didn't even do anything to injure my knee. It just happened. And so, you know, these things are gonna become more frequent because I'm getting older. And to me, losing the freedom to do what I want with my body is a huge problem.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

I'm laughing because yesterday, so Tobin's 25. Yeah, he was working out real hard, sweaty, comes in, walks to the house, walks out to the pool, jumps in. Yeah. About 20 minutes later, he comes back in the house and he's like, I can really tell I'm getting old. Like, what happened? And he said that he went to do a jackknife. Like, so when he was jumping in, hold his knee up, whatever, and jackknife. And he said, I just kind of over-rotated and I like landed. He said, And as soon as I got, man, my back. And so when he comes in, he's like, I'm getting so old. Oh my god. He's 25. Right. And so I'm double that. I'm more than double that. Yeah. You know, I'm 56 or seven. And maybe you had seven, right? But and this kid, kid, is like, I'm getting so old. And so, yes, it happens where our we have our mysterious aches and pains. You don't really know where that knee hurt. Maybe like you did something that shouldn't have created it or wouldn't have 10 years ago, but did today.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

You know, just like that loss of youth.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

And I think for me, I do, I have this is this is just not so negative. I promise I'm not like deep involved in that. She's not. She's definitely not. But I have a lot of things that I would like to do over.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

And I I think like, I guess you if you want to call it regret, you can call it regret. But feeling like I've lost this huge part of my youth that's forever gone. And moving forward, I don't know how much time I have left to re recuperate those opportunities. Yeah. I mean, we definitely don't know how much time we have left. And so it's like this anticipatory grief. It's grief of what was and no longer is. It's and what I notice in you as you're talking, and this comes up in other conversations too, is very much like you don't ruminate. Right. So there is a level of acceptance that I see you have with a lot of things. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? It's a great thing that I I want to know where that comes from and how to get more of that. Because I feel like for me, I'm pushing so much against like all of these things that it's not.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

I don't know the answer. It puts me into this Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think that's an interesting thing because I can't tell you, oh, here's how I did this. Like I have It's just you feel your personality. I do feel like it is. And there are some times because you will question something, and I don't mean this in a bad way or good way. You'll question something that makes me think, should I be thinking about this more?

unknown 33:32

Right?

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Like I'm not thinking about that anymore. Should I be thinking about it? And so there's a part of me that wonders if it makes me appear like not necessarily carefree, but that I just don't care.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

It it is a carefree that I love though.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Well, and it's it's not an intentional, like, I don't want people to think I don't care about things because I do and I care deeply about many things. But just like you were talking about wanting to redo or do things over in your life, and maybe you could pick a few things. There's nothing I want to do over. There are things that like I am so sad that my dad passed away. I wouldn't have the opportunity to redo that and probably wouldn't choose to. And here's why. The experiences, all of them have led me to this space, right? And this is gonna sound so woo-woo, but I absolutely believe that all of that happened for a reason. I've said this to you before. Like when I get stuck in traffic, instead of being mad, and not to say that I don't get mad, instead of being mad, I'm like, there's a reason that God wants to slow me down today. And I try to think about that. There's a reason this happened, there's a reason that happened, there's a reason. And I, and it's made me and given me what I have. I wouldn't have had, you wouldn't have had Vincent had you not made different choices, right? You wouldn't have had the opportunity, we wouldn't have met if, you know, all the things like as much as I I wouldn't have had this uh relationship, I wouldn't have had this podcast. And so I genuinely believe that. And that belief, I think, helps me to compartmentalize in some ways or to let things go and not continue to ruminate over it or want to redo because then I wouldn't be here. I don't know if it helps at all, but that is genuinely what I think about all the time. When something happens, it's not that I immediately go, what's the lesson here? Yeah, like I can't get there, but I do stop myself from going down this rabbit hole because I have to believe even if I don't see it today.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

Even if I don't see it today, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Yeah. Someday it'll show up.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

So I don't know. I could just be really stupid. Right. And I can't hold on to a thought. And so that's also what happens. Either way, it works. Either way. I'm a goldfish. Well, you've not seen that show, Ted Lasso, but he talks about being a goldfish. Okay. Because they have very short memories. Yeah. And so it might have just happened, but be a goldfish, let it go. I like that. So it's such a good show, Maria. I yeah, I know. You would like it. You would, no doubt in my mind. Yeah. I see. And it would not be boring.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

I see.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

It'd be a little adventure.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Yeah, yeah. So anyway, um, I know we've kind of talked about a lot of different things here today, but if you could pick three things to do over, is there anything that like pop well, I'm not gonna say three.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

If you could pick one thing, is there anything that pops in your mind like I wish I would have zigged instead of zagged? I would have pursued this education or like anything that comes up for you or bought that car, bought that Corvette. Oh boy, this is a loaded question. You can only pick one. Um, only one? Wow. You can only pick one that you can talk about, but you can change anything else.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Um I wish that I had spent some time living alone. Uh I did not, there's been a very short period of time in my life and I it was truly alone. Late adulthood. Yep. Um, and it wasn't even alone alone because at that point I had my son and everything. So yeah, I wish I had in my early adulthood spent some time living alone in my own apartment or something and had that experience of independence and growing uh that I think a lot of young adults have. I never even had like an apartment with a roommate or anything like that. It just didn't have my own, my own space. And so um that's probably one thing that I would do differently. I know that seems might seem silly, but no.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

I mean, I I I think that's a good one because I, you know, you think about my mom's a good example of this. My mom will tell you that she moved from her parents' home into her husband's home. And then that was it. Like she's never had that independence. I've got a few cousins that talk about a similar kind of experience. And I could see where, you know, I have lived with other people, not just college dorm life, but even after that. And there's something you learn how to, I don't know, adapt to the way people who you're not related to are live their lives. And, you know, I hear conversations that the kids have about their different roommates and what like that, and they wouldn't have experienced that. And so, yeah, there was a certain amount of lessons that could have come. I mean, obviously, you have other lessons. And so if you could tell little Maria something. This is really feeling like a therapy session, but yeah. It's fine. Okay. If you could tell little Maria, not something like be sure to do this or whatever. Instead, like hold out because something really good is coming. Like, whatever it is that you would love to tell little Maria, what do you think it would be?

SPEAKER_01 39:06

You have everything you need inside of you.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Aww. That's where we should end. So do you. I love that. Do you think she would have been able to hear that message?

SPEAKER_01 39:23

No. That's I think I think the and when I talk about the living alone piece, I think there's a level of confidence that you either have in order to do that or you gain by doing it. And I think that's just one very small example, but um I struggled a lot with having the confidence to know that I could do whatever I wanted to. Yeah, I allowed life to happen to me as opposed to happening to them.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

That's that's a good awareness. You know, I I think I've told you this before. So I was very fortunate very early in my career to have an opportunity to travel pretty extensively internationally and travel alone. And so, you know, you didn't really have an option to not do the things just part of my job. And so I remember, and I'm sure I told this, so aim instant messenger was a big thing at the time. And a lot of companies didn't have the firewalls that they do now. And so, like, I was able to have AIM, my personal AIM on my professional laptop. And so I go over to Singapore for I don't know, the first or second time, and I'm there, and it was a 12-hour difference. And so at one point, my cousin Rob, that I was talking about a little while ago, he was online and I pinged him and I was like, Hey Rob, and we were chit-chatting. He did not know that I was in Singapore. And I eventually said, I'm in Singapore. And his first response was, Does my mom know you're there? And it was just like what he was asking or saying in that one statement was he didn't feel that freedom to be somewhere and if his mom wasn't, because my aunt would have never been okay with it, quite honestly. Yeah. And so I don't know, like my family obviously gave me that sense of freedom and purpose, but what you just described as far as that confidence, you know, being on your own, having the opportunity to travel alone as a woman, as a young adult. I was in my early 20s, was it it shaped me. Like because I was eating dinner by myself. Yeah. I was also, I wanted to explore, you know, it was a new place to me. And so I would go to the zoo and I would go to different shows. And I did a lot on my own because I didn't want to not. And that was more compelling. And so I do think that confidence came from being forced. And so to your point, when you live, you know, on your own, you experience things differently than if you always have a partner or a pair to go with you or a group of friends, the way a lot of women travel in packs. So I didn't think about it before.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

So I've just opened your mind. Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

You always do.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

When that's how we keep score here. My therapy session allowed you to think differently.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

No.

unknown 42:17

No.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Or explore something differently. Yes, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

Yeah. No, I uh what you had shared with me though is helpful about the having uh belief, if nothing else, that things are happening for you. You know, they say believe that things are happening for you instead of to you. I mean, that is such a powerful statement too. Allows you to have some acceptance instead of like pushing against it all the time and spinning up in this. Oh, I miss this so much, or oh, this is not gonna be the same ever again.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Like just having that acceptance would be well, and I I also think for you, with everything that your son is currently experiencing, getting ready to experience, it's so cool. And you did that. You know, you had such a big part, obviously, with his father and other people in his life that have helped him to spread his wings and to be the young man that you know he was meant to be. And we can't hold him back, obviously. Yeah, but you know, maybe there's a reframe opportunity where you could see things again through his eyes and experience going off to college and getting your first roommates and dorm and figuring out what he wants to be when he grows up, which we're all still figuring out. But I mean, you know, it's there's some excitement attached to it too.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

For sure. You know, yeah. I know you did the college tour recently, and there's probably more coming. So, you know, don't sigh and go, yeah. It's like, yes, we've got so many great things coming up.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

Okay, okay. Maybe I just need you as my coach. Um everybody does. Indeed. Of course, of course. Okay, I think we're good for today. Uh we are, but before we are, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

So for the whole conversation of grief and of nostalgia, I just I'm so grateful. As much as I said, like social media has had some bad impact for me personally. There's also, I love the fact that I can see those bits of nostalgia, you know, when you're scrolling through Instagram or Facebook or whatever it is. Yeah. And it's great reminders, like, wow, what a great experience we were able to have as kids. And I'm so grateful, you know, things like the Brady Bunch and some of the stuff. I do feel bad that some kids will never experience those in real time, that social media will always be something. But then, you know, in 50 years from now, they're gonna be having the same nostalgic moments about whatever it is, you know, that we are.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

And so memory six, seven. Oh, I remember six, what does that even mean? Right. No one knows.

unknown 45:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

So there will be, you know, another group having the same conversations. Yes. You know, but we will know that ours was better.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Absolutely. Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

So this is I'm I'm glad you brought this topic up. And I I do see how they relate for sure.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

All right. Nice job, Maria. I brought you around. You always do. You always do. You wear me down.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

Okay. Well, we uh we again didn't solve for anything, but we hope if you're listening or watching that you related to some of these. I apologize for doing it commercial. But yes, please do. Um always happy to hear your stories, your experiences. If there's anything that you want to share with us about how you have dealt with your own grief or what your feelings are about nostalgia in particular, because we've talked about both of those things. Um, please let us know. Like, subscribe, comment, share all of this. Or email us. Or email us.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Brainsgunbold at gmail.com. Indeed. Whatever is your preferred form of communication, we do want to hear from you. We want you to be part of our conversation.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

Yes, yes, yes. So until next time. Until next time.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

Bye. Bye.