From Science to Song: Merging Music and Wildlife

How can the worlds of wildlife conservation and music come together in perfect harmony? 

This episode brings together longtime members of The Wildlife Society, Emily Thoroski and Merlin Shoesmith, to show how science and art collide.

Emily shares how she works with children in her school workshops to co-write songs about nature. Merlin brings a lifetime of wildlife experience, including an incredible story about facing over a dozen grizzlies in Yellowstone. Together, they explore the balance between the scientist’s need to explain everything and the songwriter’s goal to say just enough.

Their song “The Eyes of the Wolf” reimagines Aldo Leopold’s famous insight about predators and ecological balance, turning a key conservation lesson into music that connects with people everywhere.

Share this episode with a nature-loving friend, subscribe to the show, and leave a quick review to help more people discover Our Wild Lives.

Learn more: 

Stream “The Eyes of the Wolf” - https://youtu.be/xRsw7O5RPsw?si=xrlHgbuU13XwTRY8

Emily Thoroski - https://www.manitobamusic.com/theenvironmentalmusician

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/theenvironmentalmusician/?hl=en

Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/artist/7FZNZOIrL1l2UlUMwzZZK2?si=ZTAP6vnCR4mU5tAJP6lZSg

Merlin Shoesmith - https://www.naturemanitoba.ca/award-recipient/merlin-w-shoesmith/

Become a member of The Wildlife Society: https://wildlife.org/membership/

Support Wildlife, Invest in Wildlife Professionals: https://wildlife.org/donate/

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Transcript

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[00:00:03] Katie Perkins: Music has an indescribable ability to bring people together and stories to life, but how can the worlds of wildlife conservation and music come together in perfect harmony? In this episode, we chat with TWS members, Emily Thoroski and Merlin Shoesmith, as they share their unique journey of blending science and art through song. 

We dive into Emily's work teaching kids about the environment through music and how a connection through The Wildlife Society turned into a collaboration of their new song, "The Eyes of the Wolf." 

We discover how they tackle turning complex scientific ideas into memorable melodies, the creative process behind their music, and the impactful work they've been a part of along the way.

 I'm your host, Katie Perkins. Welcome to the Our Wild Lives podcast, brought to you by The Wildlife Society.

[00:00:49] Emily Thoroski: So my name's Emily Thoroski and I'm from Winnipeg, Manitoba, and I have a bachelor of environmental science degree from the University of Manitoba, as well as a master of environment degree.

I got really involved in The Wildlife Society, 2016, so almost 10, 10 years for me. and uh, I, uh, did, honors thesis and a, a master's thesis, on why do wildlife matter, asking um, members of The Wildlife Society and wildlife biologists, why wildlife matter to them? Created a video. Um, and I created a song that's called We Decide, got me really involved in, um, creating music for the environment. then I began my, my career as The Environmental Musician. And ever since I've been, creating environmental songs and now I'm in schools, teaching young kids about the environment and how to create their own songs about the environment and we sing them together. And, uh, yeah, I've been performing, all across in Manitoba and now across some of Canada so it's been a, a really cool career so far, and I'm excited for the future. 

[00:01:52] Katie Perkins: That's so cool. Where did that inspiration come from?

 Had you seen someone doing something similar or was, you know, you, you kind of charted your own path for this? 

[00:02:01] Emily Thoroski: Yeah, so, uh, a lot of it is I've charted my own path. I'm inspired by different musicians and stuff. Like Johnny Cash has some, um, like environmental songs and I'm inspired by them, but for the most part, The Environmental Musician is very unique and, uh, yeah. Everyone that I kind of talk to is really excited about what I'm doing 'cause I've never seen anyone do it before. 

[00:02:20] Katie Perkins: That's awesome. Well, Merlin, what about you? What's your background and how did you become involved in wildlife? 

[00:02:25] Merlin Shoesmith: Well, I'm a farm kid from Iowa originally, and, uh, I, uh, think I had a leaning toward something in forestry or wildlife right from the get go. And so I went through university at Iowa State University and Purdue University for a master's and, and ended up starting a PhD in Yellowstone Park, at the University of Montana. Ended up having a family at the same time and had to get a job. So I actually got employed with the, Manitoba Conservation Provincial Government.

And, from there I finished my, uh, PhD at the University of Manitoba under Dr. Bill Pruitt, who I think many people may recognize that name at least.

 I, um, spent 30 years with, uh, Manitoba Conservation, working as the big game research specialist on through to biological services, endangered species, as a government sounding departments.

And, uh, ended up then my last 10 years of my career, uh, as an assistant deputy minister in administration. And, uh, retired in 2001, which is a long time ago for me. But I still continued on and taught courses at the University of Manitoba for about four or five years. And, uh, I really enjoyed that because , I was able to do some of, like some of the early professors that I had in university. Uh, I could stand there and talk all day without notes and talk about experiences and things that I thought were important to pass on to the students.

[00:04:02] Katie Perkins: What was one of those stories that you always found yourself telling and, and giving back to students? 

[00:04:07] Merlin Shoesmith: They always wanted to know, well, you were in Yellowstone Park, like, what were you doing there? And I said, well, I was working on a, sub-alpine, uh, summer range for elk. And I had lots of interesting encounters there. I had a range professor from University of manito or uh, with, uh, Montana working with me and, uh, we were riding our horses down, uh, range and got into place where a buffalo, bull buffalo had died and it was in a small patch of, of sub alpine trees and, uh, very hot.

And it was about lunchtime and we ended up, riding right up to it without knowing it was there. And then when we realized what it was, the bushes around us just exploded with grizzly bears that were all around us and 

[00:04:54] Katie Perkins: Oh my gosh, 

[00:04:55] Merlin Shoesmith: We had to think pretty quickly to get out of there and out of their way because there was about, I can't remember the exact number, but it was about like 13 or 16, uh, all together with cubs and yearlings and female bears and, and, uh, some of them, it was an interesting experience anyway, uh, that

I think the whole point I was trying to make is that, uh, bears have a very good sense of smell or they know something about communication. I don't know, because some of the bears were marked and they were 30 miles away about two weeks before that. Uh,then being at that, buffalo carcass. 

[00:05:34] Katie Perkins: Wow. When you started to hear the bushes rustle, like what was going through your mind? 

[00:05:40] Merlin Shoesmith: I thought, oh, shoot. Uh, uh, and it meant that I was grabbing on, the first thing I thought was grabbing onto the main, because I didn't wanna fall off the horse if he took off like a shot. And he didn't, but he did start moving and, and, uh, my, friend that was with me, he made it through there the same way. So we knew what we were doing, I guess, under the circumstances, but it was, uh, a really an aha moment.

[00:06:05] Katie Perkins: Yeah. Well, that's a good thing you had a good horse underneath you. That didn't spook.

Cause man, it's just so interesting to think just how different that encounter could have gone if any number of things went differently. But wow. What, what a story to tell and what an experience to have.

[00:06:18] Merlin Shoesmith: I'm glad to tell that to younger people that, you know, might be, if they didn't, never went to Yellowstone or saw a grizzly bar, at least they'd be inspired to work in wildlife management, you know?

[00:06:27] Katie Perkins: Yeah. Who wouldn't wanna walk up on 13 grizzly bears at a bison carcass?

So, Merlin and Emily, how did you guys meet?

[00:06:34] Emily Thoroski: So I was a student at the University of Manitoba and, uh, I guess Merlin, um, had a lot of contacts there, used to work there. Um, so through The Wildlife Society, we kind of met. And, um, yeah I've done some video work for his, uh, male chorus and, we kind of knew we both did, um, music. So then we got together and we've been, creating a song together and yeah, it's been fun. 

[00:06:57] Katie Perkins: Tell me about the song that you guys created and released recently, which, congratulations by the way. Yeah, But yeah, tell us about The Eyes of the Wolf.

[00:07:03] Emily Thoroski: Yeah. So The Eyes of the Wolf is, um, about Aldo Leopold, and it's about The Wildlife Society, uh, the past, present and future. And a lot of the lyrics talk about, Aldo Leopold's, like aha moment when he shot a wolf in, uh, 1912 in, uh, New Mexico. And he's looking into the eyes of the wolf.

 And he sees, you know, that um, the wolf is so much more than just the wolf and he's so important to the whole ecosystem, the interconnectedness and how it relates to the environment and I think a lot of us, learned from that moment in reading it and, um, and it really inspired us to create almost yeah, the theme around this aha moment he had.

[00:07:43] Katie Perkins: The eyes of the wolf, as Aldo calls them, are green, but wolves obviously don't have green eyes. So can you tell me a little bit more about the symbolism behind that?

[00:07:51] Merlin Shoesmith: My understanding is that when Aldo had actually shot the wolf that he was seeing the green eyes instead of the yellow, which was normally there because the wolf was dying. And he thought like, why did I do this? Like, you know, uh, I'm. I'm supposed to be concerned about the balance of nature and one less wolf means it's probably there's gonna be more prey, like, uh, deer around, and we're gonna have a problem, that kind of thing. So

[00:08:22] Katie Perkins: Mm-hmm. Yeah, all of the lessons that he imbued at really the beginning of this profession, it's, it's fascinating and amazing to see how those lessons still hold true today. And now that you can take that lesson and re-spin it in a different way. I mean, that just shows the legacy of him and obviously he's one of the founders of our organization and so I think this is just such a lovely tribute to him and to the organization.

[00:08:46] Merlin Shoesmith: Yeah, we hope so.

[00:08:48] Emily Thoroski: Yeah, music can play a role in that, like keeping history alive, right? Like even after people are pass on, their music lives on and these messages in this lives on and the generations to come can be able to like hear the songs and learn you know about Aldo Leopold in the history of The Wildlife Society from a song. 

[00:09:09] Katie Perkins: That's so cool. What has the response to this been? 

[00:09:14] Emily Thoroski: It's been pretty good. Yeah. People, people like our, our song and, uh, it's, it's, we are really excited to just be here and, uh, you know, have all the members hear it for the first time kind of thing, like in live performance. 'Cause a lot of the time, um, yeah, people can hear the song on music streaming platforms and. Through that, but this is like the first time we've actually been live performance with our fam. Mm-hmm. We call it The Wildlife Society, like our family and friends. 'cause we just, it's just, it's just amazing community.

So, um, yeah, for the first time it's, we're singing it together and that's tomorrow night and we're, yeah. It's exciting.

[00:09:47] Katie Perkins: Take me behind the scenes of the process of creating this.

[00:09:50] Merlin Shoesmith: Well, it's, uh, a matter of real collaboration because I had so many ideas what might go into a song verse, and, uh, I had too many words for starters, and I couldn't put it all in which I thought were important. And, uh, Emily did a great job of keeping me honest and saying, well, why don't you just give a general phrase for that particular, thought. And, uh, yeah, we got four verses and a bridge in. I thought we did remarkably well, although it took us probably about a eight months to a year that we actually wrote this song and finally got it right.

[00:10:29] Katie Perkins: So this is of a culmination of the ultimate challenge for a scientific professional is boiling all of their thoughts down into a concise thing. So what lessons about writing do you think that maybe you could share for scientists learning to, um, simplify their message when they're talking to non-science crowds? Because I think this is such an interesting way that you guys are bringing science to the public. 

[00:10:55] Emily Thoroski: My advice is like, be as simple as you can and creative as you can when you're like trying to get your message across. And so for me, music is such an amazing tool. Because a lot of people love music. It makes you happy, dance, and people just get excited about it and like, it's such a great education tool 'cause you can put things in music and like teach people. So I teach a lot of kids through, through music. And so it's, that's one of the tools that I found, I found works for me. But there's so many other things like poetry, dance, you know, other things like theater where people can transfer scientific information into like art, right? And any art that people can, like interpret easy and like their brain loves it. Yeah. If that makes any sense. Yes. So it's like taking something so big and making it simplified, but also super exciting, 'cause I think that's one of the things for our future, like we have so much, you know, data and things like that and it's amazing to have all that scientific data, but we need to communicate it to the public because we need the 8 billion people with us, you know, in this message and, and this, this work of getting more people involved in sustainability and conservation. So yeah, that's what I'm working on right now for my career.

[00:12:06] Katie Perkins: Awesome.

[00:12:06] Emily Thoroski: Yeah 

[00:12:07] Merlin Shoesmith: I might add that, uh, one of the things I always remember is I took a tech journalism course in undergraduate school and it taught me how to focus on what was important in a few words. That's what I always have to come back to and remember. Merlin, you know, that, uh, you can't jam all those words in that song. 

[00:12:27] Katie Perkins: That's so cool. So Emily, with your work with students in, you know, environmental education, could you tell us a little bit more about that? Like your thought process behind it, what your day-to-day life looks like and, and how you are translating these complex science issues into things that children will love and enjoy and, and learn from and wanna, you know, take those lessons as they grow. 

[00:12:47] Emily Thoroski: Yeah, so a lot of what I do is I'll go to a school, we'll have like a two day kind of workshop, whereas, uh, the first, the first kind of hour and a bit, I kind of get to know the kids a bit and, and I perform my own, um, environmental songs.

So they get inspired by what I'm doing and kind of see who I am. And then we do, like a, um, brainstorming session where the kids can come up with whatever they want, like the environment. What their favorite animals are, what their favorite, like, environmental issues are, you know?

 A lot of them like, uh, too much pollution, too much garbage, recycling, you know. We come across with a, with a main theme. So I kind of like help them gather their thoughts and then we, uh, start putting it to music. And I have my guitar there and so I am playing some chords like, do you guys want it to be a happy song or, or, you know, a, a sadder song. And so we're picking our music and then the kids, it's all the kids coming up with the lyrics. Like, I kind of do a little bit of, masterminding, but for the most part it's their song. It's not my song. It's like a collaboration mostly. I like call it their song, but, um, and they, uh, get so excited.

Like they're in the audience, they're like putting their hands up and they're smiling away and stuff like that. And, they have the best time and we've been performing it at their concerts for their parents at the end of the year, we were invited to the Parliament building in Winnipeg, where we performed on Earth Day, these songs that I wrote with the kids.

And yeah, so far, like I've had been having a lot of people like, love what I'm doing and it's great to see because I think it's a, it's a, it's a good topic, you know, and more people should be doing it.

 So yeah, it's been amazing. And even some of the kids, uh, at the end of the year, they're, they're saying like, it's the best thing they've done all year at school.

[00:14:30] Katie Perkins: Oh, I love that.

[00:14:31] Emily Thoroski: Like, yeah. And I'm like, well, this means I'm doing something that matters, you know, so it just makes me like glow inside and type type thing. 

[00:14:38] Katie Perkins: What do you notice? The being the kids' favorite part or what's, something that they're, they're like, oh, we all love wolves. We wanna write every song about wolves, or something like that.

[00:14:45] Emily Thoroski: Yeah, that's what I find. Okay. So I ask the kids what their favorite animals are and I love it 'cause a lot of them say like, cats, right? Or dogs. And I'm like, okay guys, think about the environment. Like what, what do you see outside your house, kind of thing. Um, but yeah, a lot of them like butterflies, you know?

But I do get all the animal like, tons of animals, you know, so it's, I really have to break it down into what issue, you know, what kind of things do you, so, um, it is a bit hard for it to take. It's like, um, the science thing. You're taking all these ideas and you're creating into something smaller. And for some reason I can, I can do that with my brain.

[00:15:19] Katie Perkins: Can you tell us about one of the songs that you've written with the kids? 

[00:15:22] Emily Thoroski: We wrote one about like, garbage and, uh, how just like you see garbage everywhere and the kids. like what, who's impacted by it?

It's impacted by the whole, like all the species in the ecosystem. So, uh, yeah, I just, I took, uh, those kind of facts and I made it into a smaller thing and, and you kinda add things that people, uh, really enjoy.

[00:15:43] Katie Perkins: How did you find this job?

I feel like this is such a unique career path and perfect for you and Yeah. Yeah. So tell us about that story of getting into this job. 

[00:15:51] Emily Thoroski: I'll tell you, like, I started like as a scientist, right? And I, did music my whole life since I was 10. I played guitar and I like to sing. And then, yeah, and I did my thesis. I wrote that song called We Decide. And, since then I've been, building a business called The Environmental Musician. So I've been taking a course at the University of Manitoba that helps me, with entrepreneurship and building a business. 'Cause I don't know, I didn't know anything about how to be a business woman or anything like that.

So, I'm taking all these skills that I've learned and then creating a business into it. But it's nothing like there was a me submitting a resume to a job because this job doesn't exist yet. So I'm creating it myself along the way, which has been tough, I'll be honest. Like it's not easy, 

[00:16:37] Katie Perkins: I'm sure.

[00:16:38] Emily Thoroski: But a lot of it is networking and spreading my word.

'Cause I'd like to work with, honestly, organizations from across the world. I think like what we did for The Wildlife Society, we have this song where we are, you know, putting their whole background, their whole history into a song, and it's, it's amazing.

So there's so many other organizations that could do something like that. And, uh, let me know if you, if you're interested. 

[00:17:00] Katie Perkins: Yeah. So tell me about the process of actually recording the song and getting it released because you can listen to it on Spotify, Apple Music, all over the place. Have you ever done that before? And what was that? process like?

[00:17:13] Merlin Shoesmith: I've never done it before. She did, uh, most of the leg work behind getting it on those websites, so, this is a new area for me of, uh, even thinking. I've got a song that I wrote that with her at least, that is on all these social media and people are seeing it. 

[00:17:31] Emily Thoroski: So our producer, Dan Donahue, and he is a well known in, uh, well, I guess Manitoba, but probably a little, little bit across the world. He's worked with like Neil Young and Bob Dylan. And stuff like that. And it's like, ooh, this guy is really high up there. So we, he has, um. A studio in his basement kind of thing. And we went there and it was like one or two takes, like we didn't do a lot of takes 'cause Dan says like, "just do it and it, I want it to be like, you know, the way you usually do it, I don't wanna edit stuff, so just do your takes." And, it was pretty quick and, uh, , it sounds really good. And so Dan added harmonica on the song and there's guitar, which is, uh, yeah, the professional way it's online, but so when we perform it live, it's just me and Merlin with the guitars and we're singing, and it's a little different, a little different of a, a 

[00:18:17] Merlin Shoesmith: little more raw. 

[00:18:18] Katie Perkins: A stripped back version, 

[00:18:20] Emily Thoroski: A little stripped back, a little, uh, a little raw.

But, um, they're very unique in their own ways. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, going into studio and I, it's really a unique and it's fun and it's, uh. Its a process, you're a little nervous to, you know, to do a good job and stuff. But, uh, yeah, it ended up sounding very cool and I'm very excited for more people to hear. 

[00:18:39] Katie Perkins: Stay with us. We'll be right back after this message. Whether you're a student, early career professional, or seasoned biologist, The Wildlife Society has the tools to help you grow. From career resources and job boards to science-based publications and networking, TWS is your professional home. Learn more at wildlife.org.

What, you know, advice could you maybe give to someone that's listening and, and being like, oh wait, sounds really cool. That sounds like something that I'd wanna try to pursue. You know, what, what are the first steps? What would you encourage them to do? 

[00:19:16] Merlin Shoesmith: I'm sure that there are, particular subjects or topics that are dear to their heart and focus on those and like, how do you want to develop those? If you're going to develop it into a song. Like me, I tried to put too much into the song, but, uh, that's all right.

That's uh, that's gonna be like, pretty much the first draft. And then you start thinking about, well, what did I learn in tech journalism in my case? And like, get this boiled down. And she really did, made a difference in that regard for me. 'cause I didn't learn that much in tech journalism. 

[00:19:52] Emily Thoroski: For me, I grew up very shy. I would like not even put up my hand up in class because I was like too shy of maybe they don't want to hear, you know, 

[00:20:00] Katie Perkins: I'd never guessed that. Yeah. 

[00:20:02] Emily Thoroski: Yeah and I've really grown a lot, um, like as a professional and just coming outta my shell and being confident, because I think it's important, you know, confidence.

 It's a great, uh, skill for sure. But, uh. so I would say, yeah, anyone out there like, be confident in your ideas and who you are. A lot about our song is, you know, diversity is so important. Equality, like, that's literally lyrics in our song. and The Wildlife Society is all about that.

You know, we're building just a family of diversity, equality, and, um, so we really love that, that aspect. And everybody comes in with their own message. Like, everyone's so unique. You know, everybody as an individual can bring in so much. And we'll be, uh, way better off if we're speaking out. And don't be afraid to be who you are. Yeah, 

[00:20:47] Merlin Shoesmith: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:20:48] Katie Perkins: Awesome. I, I absolutely love that. 

So the inspiration for this song was drawn from that iconic story in The Sand County Almanac. Where else do you guys tend to draw your inspiration from? Are there certain places that you go when you wanna get the creative juices flowing? You know, when does inspiration strike? 

[00:21:05] Emily Thoroski: For me? I, anytime It's very, it's, it's very sporadic. Like, um, sometimes yeah, I'll be on a walk and thinking about like.certain issues or certain things that I wanna discuss, but a lot of, to be honest about my background in my music is I've been asked to create songs about certain things.

Like I have this song called Birds, and I wrote that because I was, gonna perform this at an an AGM for the Manitoba chapter of The Wildlife Society. And so this was during the pandemic, so I actually had to perform it online. But like I created that song for a purpose. And I created, We Decide for a, a purpose because it was a part of a, a course. 

So for some reason, I, it's like when, so this may why I like my job so much is because people ask for me to write a song. Mm-hmm. And then I work with a theme in that way. but yeah, it can be a little bit of both. 

[00:21:57] Katie Perkins: Emily, I wanna go back to your educational experience with this, when you were doing your master's. So was that a Master's of Science?

[00:22:04] Emily Thoroski: Uh, a master of environment. Okay, okay. At the U of M? Yeah. 

[00:22:07] Katie Perkins: Okay. Like is that more science, more arts? Is 

[00:22:10] Emily Thoroski: It um, 

[00:22:11] Katie Perkins: Something of its own league? 

[00:22:12] Emily Thoroski: Yeah, kind of its own league kind of thing. A little bit of science, a little bit of art. I think you can take that kind of master thesis in your own way. And I think that's one of the greatest things that I liked because I could use music and video all in my thesis and science.

So it's like, yeah, I'm building everything together. It was a really cool degree to, uh, to do for sure. And then I also got my Associate Wildlife Biologist Certification through The Wildlife Society. Working towards my certified one, but, uh, yeah, it's a, it's a lot in, in one kind of a thesis.

[00:22:46] Katie Perkins: Were you still doing like field work based research or was all of your coursework and extracurriculars focused on creating the video and the song? Like how did that work? 

[00:22:55] Emily Thoroski: So it was, uh, half coursework and half, um, my fieldwork at, for my masters at least, was more. like going to conferences and interviewing wildlife biologists.

A lot of video work and uh, that's how I kind of met a lot of people and networked with people. And that's why like The Wildlife Society has been so amazing for just my career, like for sure as well as many others. Because it's been so like unique where it's like I can come and present my research.

So I was in Reno in 2019 at the conference presenting my research and, um I had my first showing of Why Do Wildlife Matter. So it's my short film. And they've been very good at like embracing art into, into, uh, a big science based organization. So I think like in the future it's gonna even build and get more people, artists involved, and I can't wait.

Yeah, I'm excited. 

[00:23:48] Katie Perkins: No, it's really exciting. So when you were presenting your research, what did that data look like? What were you, you know, what did you find about why wildlife matter and, and how did you turn those interviews and those personal accounts into you know, science that you could present. 

[00:24:03] Emily Thoroski: Yeah. So it was really cool I, they, because um, when people talk about why do wildlife matter to them.

A lot of them talk about, family and friends and, um, like just stories of their past and how like it's in their heart, right? So like camping and fishing with their dad and their parent, you know, and how they connected those stories for like, who they are as a person. And then that's how the environment got into their whole heart.

Um, so I broke it into five themes and then I, um, I had to write, I didn't like it, but I had to write a big, uh, thesis, which was, you know, you're dealing with 150 pages or whatever. But then I also created a video and a song. With all that kind of data and just kind of, you know, communicating it in different media. 

[00:24:46] Katie Perkins: Yeah. What a big challenge to take, kind of intrinsic thoughts and feelings and being able to turn that into science and data. Because I think a lot of people think about data and it's like, all percentages and numbers and, you know, models and all that stuff, but, there is a way to try to evaluate the importance and the impact of something without having those numbers. And so I think that's really interesting work that you're doing on that. 

[00:25:09] Emily Thoroski: Thank you. Yeah. Like a lot of it too is people like they talk right? And they're, when people talk, I had, you know, interviews where, where they were like 40 minutes and I have to break that down into just some word like simple things, what is the most important thing that this person's saying and are there themes between all these, 'cause I, I think I, um, interviewed about 60 people or something and are there themes, connections between what they're saying? So I found out yes, there's, there's at least five major themes that when people are, uh, talking about why do wildlife matter.

[00:25:40] Katie Perkins: So cool. Yeah.

[00:25:41] Emily Thoroski: Well, one of the other things I, I'll talk about is just. And I think it's important for this song and this writing process for me and Merlin, it's been, he's been a member of The Wildlife Society for 62 years. You know, I'm just about almost at 10. And it's like, it's nice to work with and learn from someone, you know, that's been a part of this organization for so long and have all these stories to tell and stuff.

So it's been inspiring to have an early career professional working with, you know, a mentor and stuff. 

[00:26:10] Katie Perkins: Yeah. the cross collaboration that you see in The Wildlife Society is just it just always brings a smile to my face in that there, you know so many different life experiences between, I mean I, I think we have 1300 attendees this year it's like these 1300 people, they all have that one thing in common and it's that they love wildlife and they love conservation. And then you have all these various stories, you've got the data analysts, you've got the musicians, you've got the students and the mentors and yeah all that convergence is just so interesting to me and I love that the story of you guys meeting and be able to collaborate and create such a beautiful project to share with the members.

[00:26:46] Emily Thoroski: Yeah, no, we, we've had a lot of fun and we're so excited for people to hear The Eyes of the Wolf. For sure.

And the song is on music streaming platforms. so you can listen on Apple Music, Spotify, across the entire world, right? So we're not just dealing with North America. We're dealing with something that's available for people to listen to anywhere in the world for as like as many years to come.

So we could have, you know, a hundred years from now, people listening to, um, songs about, about conservation and what happened and these founding members and stuff. So I think it's very significant. I think it's really cool.

[00:27:19] Katie Perkins: Emily, Merlin, thank you so much for joining us. Congratulations on your song.

And if you wanna listen to this, it's on Apple, Spotify. You can find it on Emily's website and on her social medias. And yeah, thank you guys so much for joining us today. 

[00:27:32] Emily Thoroski: Thank you. 

[00:27:33] Merlin Shoesmith: Thank you for having us. 

[00:27:34] Emily Thoroski: It's been a pleasure for sure. 

Katie Perkins: Hey, it's Katie. Thanks so much for listening to the Our Wild Lives podcast. If you're loving what you're hearing, could you help us out? Leaving us a review, rating our show or sharing it with a friend will help us continue to grow the Our Wild Lives podcast. Thanks again for listening. We'll catch you next week.