Restoring a Cultural Keystone Species

For Remington Bracher, working on the reintroduction of bison back to Canada is not only a win for his wildlife career, but also for his culture as a Nêhiyaw (Cree) member of Muskoday First Nation. 

In this episode of “Our Wild Lives,” Bracher, an Indigenous Liaison with Parks Canada and graduate student at the University of British Columbia, shares how growing up hunting and fishing led him into wildlife conservation. His current research combines policy analysis with quantitative population modeling to see what a sustainable Indigenous bison (Bison bison) harvest could look like. He hopes it will further his dream of one day seeing Indigenous bison hunts in national parks. 

Alongside his experiences working with bison, Bracher also discusses the importance of relationship-building, co-creation, youth involvement, and respectful integration of Indigenous knowledge in wildlife management. 

“Our Wild Lives” is The Wildlife Society’s biweekly podcast, sharing compelling stories from wildlife professionals doing critical work around the world. Your hosts, Katie Perkins and Ed Arnett, of The Wildlife Society, bring you thought-provoking conversations with leading experts and emerging voices. 

Further reading:

About Remington Bracher - https://wildlife.org/remington-bracher-earns-graduate-fellowship-in-wildlife-policy/

The Native Student Development Program - https://wildlife.org/working-groups/npwmwg/

Towards reconciliation: 10 Calls to Action to natural scientists working in Canada- https://www.facetsjournal.com/doi/10.1139/facets-2020-0005

Singing Back the Buffalo documentary trailer - https://youtu.be/xshtMcU6fZE?si=JfKEJ3r8s8FmyjU2

Photo Caption:  A bison stands in a grassland. Image by WikiImages from Pixabay

Become a member of The Wildlife Society: https://wildlife.org/membership/

Support Wildlife, Invest in Wildlife Professionals: https://wildlife.org/donate/

Follow us on 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewildlifesociety/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thewildlifesociety

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-wildlife-society/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@The_Wildlife_Society

Transcript

[00:00:03] Katie Perkins: Bison are often called a keystone species, but for many people, the significance goes well beyond ecology

[00:00:11] It's a species that has shaped the lives, landscapes, and traditions of people across North America for thousands of years.

Today, we're sitting down with Remington Brasher. He's an Indigenous liaison with Parks Canada and a master's student at the University of British Columbia, and his research is focused on a question that sits at the intersection of policy, science, and culture; what would a sustainable Indigenous bison harvest inside a national park actually look like?

This episode follows his research from the field to the policy table, touching on the history of the matter and what it looks like when Indigenous knowledge and wildlife science work together from the start.

I'm your host, Katie Perkins, and this is the Our Wild Lives podcast, brought to you by The Wildlife [00:01:00] Society.

[00:01:13] Remington Bracher: My name is Remington Bracher. I am a Indigenous liaison for Parks Canada and a current graduate student through the University of British Columbia. Uh, my research focuses on sustainable harvest for Indigenous communities of bison in national parks. Particularly Elk Island where I am working as part of the Indigenous liaison team at the park.

[00:01:36] Katie Perkins: Awesome. So, you know, a lot of people, they get into this field and it's like a really personal experience they had as a kid or you know, some, someone in their family did it. Could you just tell us a story about how you got involved working in wildlife conservation and what led you to this path that you're on now?

[00:01:51] Remington Bracher: Yeah, for sure. I grew up in a family with a, my dad was a major hunter trapper, angler. My mom also participated in hunting and [00:02:00] fishing. So, I was born into it. I joke about this in my plenary speech, but like, there's not a picture of me as a kid without a fish or a deer or something in it. From before I could walk, they were taking me out hunting and fishing and trapping.

So that left a really big impression for me when I was a kid. You know, fast-forward into high school, I. was not a great high school student. I grew up in a small town. I was a tradesman prior to being a biologist, so I was focused in on that side of things. I never really thought academic, you know, going to university was for me, I didn't know if I'd, uh, make it there, and it wasn't until my wife kinda kicked, kicked me along and said, go try it.

I think you're. gonna be fine that I kind of went back into university and now I'm in the midst of my master's and I'm contemplating a PhD, which sounds ridiculous when I say it out loud, considering where I started when I graduated high school. So it's been really rewarding and like fundamentally, [00:03:00] hunting and fishing were kind of like the main avenues for me to get into this.

It, it was a huge passion of mine and I just wanted to ensure that like the future generations, uh, got to experience and learn from it as I did. And that's kind of one of my main motivations for taking up the field. And yeah, it's been very rewarding. I'm very grateful for the opportunities I've been given so far.

[00:03:24] Katie Perkins: Yeah. Were there any lessons that you've kind of learned along the way of switching from this you know, tradesman, I'm not gonna be an academic, school's not for me to then going into this, you know, very rigorous scientific field of study of wildlife management. You know, have you learned anything along the way? 

[00:03:40] Remington Bracher: Oh, I think one thing that I, uh, I've learned, and I think this comes from the trade background as well, is learning how to be adaptable. I've participated in enough field studies and field work that everybody knows field work never goes as planned and being adaptable in the field and on the fly is so important. I've spent many [00:04:00] times sitting on the side of the road trying to figure out how I was gonna get our partner unstuck or like where to winch out of this area. And my experiences as a tradesman and as like an outdoorman really came, in handy 'cause I, I feel like I have a more well-rounded background than a lot of just straight uh, academics, which has been really rewarding. So if we ever find ourselves in hairy situations or you know, some adverse weather, or something, I'm usually pretty prepared. Even if somebody else isn't, I can kind of help, help them along.

[00:04:32] Katie Perkins: Yeah, those are good qualities to have. You're someone who'd I'd want on the, you know, the seat in the truck with me if I were going out and doing that. Can you walk us through some of your current research? You hinted on it a little bit, but what is it that you're working on now? What does your day-to-day look like?

[00:04:45] Remington Bracher: So right now I'm focusing in on, creating models in partnership with Elk Island National Park. To look at what a sustainable Indigenous harvest would look like at that national park. So [00:05:00] my research, I would argue, kind of broken into two sections.

One around policy. So where hunting is utilized in national parks, what the legislation is behind it, and why is it being justified. So in Canada, this will be very Canada-focused. There we have the numbered treaties. We have modern land claims, we have modern treaties. We have all of these different Indigenous legislative pieces that all play a part in whether hunting is allowed in these national parks or not. And with the new invigoration of the Indigenous stewardship policy from Parks Canada, there's even more of a push to get these kinds of activities and the cultural continuity that comes with it into these places. So one's very much a policy overview, and the other part is very much a quantitative model that showcases what sustainable harvest, uh, looks like at a national park.

[00:05:54] Katie Perkins: Yeah, it sounds like you really have your hands full I'm thinking like two different sides of your brain trying to, you know, figure [00:06:00] out that research question. What was it that, you know, drew you to pursue that research question in particular? 

[00:06:06] Remington Bracher: My biggest thing when I was in my undergrad was right when I was getting into my undergrad, the Banff reintroduction of, uh, the plains bison was just taking off. So I believe that started off in 2017. Could get my year wrong there a little bit, but essentially what I saw was this opportunity of like these, you know, cultural keystone species being reintroduced to Canada's first national park. And I started writing about this idea of like, what is, you know, I wrote critiques about like Species at Risk Act and how, you know, the main objectives have always been about like maintaining a minimum viable population on the landscape to make sure they're self-sustaining and they, they don't require active management, but there's very little on like making sure traditional relationships with communities are [00:07:00] in place as well as self-sustaining populations. So I started writing about the idea that recovery goals aren't met unless people are able to interact with the species in a meaningful way for Indigenous rights, for community knowledge sake, for cultural continuity and stories and stuff like that.

All of that plays a part into species recovery. National parks historically used to be this very much like fortress of conservation, free of people. And, you know, the idea of pristine wilderness. And as literature and research has caught up to that, we're finding out more and more that that's not really the case.

That people were a massive influence on these landscapes that we now protect. And the fact that we removed the stewards, the original stewards of that land, we're now starting to see that. Oh, maybe. yeah, maybe the lodgepole pine density isn't great because we're not having as many fires historically. Why are we seeing these [00:08:00] big ecosystem changes?

And like for me it was like this chance to like really put myself in there and as an Indigenous person, be like, well, it's because of these things that I was taught as a kid. It's because of these things that I've heard from elders and knowledge holders. And like this is all a relatively recent development in the grand scheme of research and academia the, that real push of Indigenous knowledge systems and traditional ecological knowledge, whatever you wanna call it.

So it's really rewarding to be able to work in like that crevice of that right now, it's been so, so incredible and getting to work with communities has just been a dream come true for me. I've wanted a position similar to this since I started undergrad, so it's been really rewarding.

[00:08:50] Katie Perkins: Yeah, walk me through like how it is actually working every day. You know, you're, you're a, liaison for the park aside from all the all the research you're doing for your master's. How [00:09:00] are you seeing this new, these new kind of thought processes and, and collaboration and things working in a day-to-day, like firsthand way?

[00:09:08] Remington Bracher: It's a great question. So for some context, the parks that I'm currently at, there haven't been a lot of formalized relationships. So essentially we're starting from ground zero. Well, I shouldn't say ground zero. There's a lot of informal relationships, but we're, we're starting from a very much blank page, so everything takes time. Right now we're arranging meetings with 18, 19 nations trying to get them all together in the same room, which is always a challenge for sure, for capacity issues. But, one thing that I am noticing, and then I think this is across most fields within wildlife conservation, is there's far more appetite and acceptance of like wanting to work with Indigenous nations. There's more acceptance of the idea of what Indigenous knowledge is and how that gets applied in [00:10:00] academia and research. So, you know, there's a big push here in Canada for getting Indigenous fire stewardship kind of relaunched. And the Indigenous Leadership Initiative has done a great job in fostering that as well.

And here in Elk Island, you know, we're, we're wanting to get more Indigenous fire stewardship out there. We wanna get, uh, Indigenous harvest out there for both flora and fauna. But yeah, it's, it's a slow process and it takes a lot of time, which doesn't always mesh well with the Western way of doing things. So I think the biggest thing is like everything's rooted in relationships. It is always coming together, talking and trying to figure out how we work well together. And it takes time. There's no easy way around it 

[00:10:51] Katie Perkins: Yeah. Could you kind of take us into what it's like actually working with reintroducing bison, like what is it like when you're on the [00:11:00] ground with them, when you're, you know, working work if you have to like work them up or, you know, take care of them, do all that kind of thing. What is that like? 

[00:11:08] Remington Bracher: So I can speak to a couple different ways of looking at this 'cause I've worked on, uh, the Banff herd and I've worked at Elk Island doing the handling side of things. So in Banff, I came in quite a few years after the initial reintroduction and that herd has the entire backcountry to roam around.

And they are very, very cognizant of people. They will see you from miles away and be like, no, I'm not interested. And they'll take off. 

And that's, that's cool to see. It's really interesting to see that fight or flight response out in the backcountry where they don't get a lot of visitation. And then I come to Elk Island and people are driving right up to them, kinda like in Yellowstone, where they're right off the side of the road and that is such a contrast to what I'm used to. So at handling, we try to be as quiet and as straightforward as possible. We don't like to rile them [00:12:00] up any unless, you need to or but for the most part, it's very much a hands-off handling as much as possible. We kind of shoo them from this big facility.

I wish I had a picture, but there's a big facility. It almost looks like a big piece of pie. We slot them into different pieces of the pie. They run them through the alleyway, into the chutes, and then into the squeeze where we can kind of. process them and get them ready to go for wherever they're leaving. And that process is really rewarding. It's the first time I've gotten to like really get up close and personal with the bison in a squeeze and yeah, that's been great. And just to see like my own nation's bison herd and understand its history, it's really rewarding. And when it comes to the reintroduction of like, or the rematriation of herds onto Indigenous lands, It's such a powerful story.

I don't know how familiar the everybody is with like, that whole push, uh, thanks to [00:13:00] like the Buffalo Treaty, but there is a massive push to, to get these uh, back onto Indigenous, l- uh, stewards and lands. And to me that's so interesting to see 'cause like my nation has a herd. You're seeing Yellowstone bison making it up into Canada for the first time.

You're seeing Elk Island send their herd down into, uh, Montana. It's just a really interesting time to see how big of a push there is to restore this like cultural icon and you know, north American icon, you can argue for sure. Back to these lands, and every time I get to talk to a nation who's looking to bring them back to their lands, it's always so passion-driven, and it, it, it just warms my heart to the see how much work and effort people are putting into this, uh, species that I've gotten to work with and just, just any time it's on the ground and the documentaries that come out of it are, are so good to watch. If if you just wanna watch, like, uh, Bringing Back the [00:14:00] Buffalo. There's a few from Kainai, and there's also one from Blackfeet. There's quite a few different documentaries coming out now that really, really highlight the importance of the species to Indigenous people.

[00:14:12] Katie Perkins: Could you go a little bit more into the Buffalo Treaty and just, you know, kind of the background of why these bison reintroductions are so important. 

[00:14:21] Remington Bracher: Yeah, so the Buffalo Treaty was started kind of with Leroy Little Bear. I've gotten to go to a couple of these events, but essentially it's these Indigenous nations that are signing on to the treaty. To ensure the relationship between people and Buffalo are respected and ensured for future generations.

So there's tenets about conservation and how these tribes are signing on to conserve the species. That we're gonna have buffalo integrated to our education, into our art, into all of these different [00:15:00] aspects. And what it really signifies for the nations signing on is like this commitment to bringing back the buffalo to its historic highs and what that represented within communities. So the way I look at it is like cultural restoration of the species. So like, you know, bison, buffalo, I'll use them interchangeably depending on the audience. But obviously there are issues with free-ranging herds. And I joke about this all the time, that there's pro- it's probably the second most political species to work on next to caribou. But you know, there's disease concerns with cattle. There's, uh, issues with private property where bison will just rip through fences and, and lean on sheds or get into crops that they're not supposed to. So, they're a very unique case. And so when Indigenous nations can kind of bring them back to their land, at least they have a spot and a relationship with this animal that they can integrate into their community. Be that [00:16:00] through food and harvest, be that through cultural viewing and teachings. I just think that super important for any of those Buffalo nations like my own.

[00:16:10] Katie Perkins: Can you explain to me like buffalo versus bison?

I've never had it like,

[00:16:15] Remington Bracher: Yeah. 

[00:16:15] Katie Perkins: You know, people use them interchangeably, but like to you, like, what is it, buffalo versus bison? 

[00:16:20] Remington Bracher: Yeah so, they 100% could be used interchangeably. I use them interchangeably. The big thing is when I'm talking to the science community, I often use bison because there's some sort of taxoniomist that's going to be, you know, pointing their finger at me being like, no, it's not a buffalo, it's a bison. But when I'm working with communities, you know, there's been times where I presented to boards, and every time I said bison, they would make me put a dollar in a jar. Because they're like, remember you're in Wood Buffalo County, you're in, you know? So I always kind of code switch back and forth depending on the demographic and the audience I'm talking to. [00:17:00] When I'm with communities it's buffalo, when I'm, working with scientists, it's bison. That's just kind of how I justify it in my own brain. But yeah, they're the same thing. 

[00:17:10] Katie Perkins: No, I was just noticing us going back and forth and I was like, I don't actually know, you know which one is correct.

[00:17:18] Remington Bracher: Yeah, I, I think the, I think the whole term Buffalo originates with like first contacts and they saw bison and they were equating it to like water buffalo and cape buffalo in Africa and Asia and stuff like that. And they have a slight difference in, their, I'm trying to think of the word. But anyways, they, there's differences there and then they just kind of threw the same, oh, that's a buffalo backs in ca or in North America when they first kind of s-saw it and, you know, depending on the Indigenous language, it's like, iinníí or tȟatȟáŋka or, or, or, or, there's so many different words for buffalo and bison that [00:18:00] it just, it kind of, uh, overwhelming at times.

[00:18:03] Katie Perkins: So moving a, a little back into your education and your work. You were awarded the Labisky Graduate Fellowship in Wildlife Policy. What was the project that you proposed for that and how is that work going? 

[00:18:17] Remington Bracher: Yeah, so it, it's exactly what my re-research was. Uh, the study site changed a little bit, but that's not unexpected with research. Um, So like what does an Indigenous harvest look like in national parks? That was the main kind of project I pitched. And what is it, what is sustainability what are the policies and like what would the, like hunting, I don't wanna call them regulations, but how would the hunt actually go? So I got to dig into this, and being from the background I am, I've seen other managed hunts on federal lands, like military bases and stuff like that. So I, I've seen some really cool case studies of what this could look like. And for me it was just, [00:19:00] when it comes to wildlife conservation as a whole, I find policy is an important piece that often gets overlooked because. Without it being written down and having some backbone, a lot of the times it gets pushed aside and the conservation isn't the main focus. So yeah, like I was super honored to get the, the fellowship and it was quite a eye-opening experience. And still trying to figure out what exactly to think of it honestly, It-- that that whole conference was a blur to me. And I'm still trying to think back to October and November, and I'm like, oh, what a crazy year this has been.

[00:19:40] Katie Perkins: Yeah, it was a busy conference for sure. You were our plenary speaker. You won this fellowship, you were doing all the stuff with this, the Native Student Development program. Maybe you could talk a little bit more about, you know, some of your work within TWS and, and what it means to be a part of some of these programs here.

[00:19:58] Remington Bracher: Yeah, for sure. So, Yeah, for [00:20:00] sure. So, I'll start with, uh, local, the local chapter, I just wrapped up my fourth year as, uh, the student director for the Alberta Chapter of The Wildlife Society. So, after four years it was time to pass the torch off to somebody else and take a little bit of my time back, which has been, I'm super grateful for the gentleman that took, o- took my position. 

But we got to uh, It kinda gave me these wonderful little experiences of how to be a leader within the organization. So, we started a hunting mentorship program at the chapter, and this past year we took 124 students out hunting for the first time. Waterfowl, upland, big game, all sorts of different opportunities.

And that was kind of a pipe dream of mine when I was starting school. It was like, oh, I keep having people come up and asking me like, oh, would you take me out hunting? Would you take me out hunting? And so I would take, you know, four or five students out on my own personal dime and just be like, oh yeah, hear, we'll we'll teach [00:21:00] you a thing or two out in the bush.

And then it kind of kept escalating and growing and. Then Delta Waterfowl's, uh, university hunting program came in, uh, as a partner. I also was a volunteer at the local, uh, chapter here around Edmonton. And so that was my first pot of money that I was like, oh, wow, I can do something more with this. So I got to take about a dozen students out that time, and then we started applying to grants and that's when things really kicked off.

And all of a sudden we're playing with tens of thousands of dollars to do these really awesome projects and hunts. But now it's like taxidermy workshops, tracking workshops, uh, butchering workshop, and it's so much bigger than I ever anticipated it getting. And it's so cool to sit back and with my team and just like, look at what, uh, three people, four people have accomplished is just so amazing. And then from the local [00:22:00] chapter to like TWS when I was a recipient of the Native Student Development Program my first conference with TWS in general and my first conference as like a post-secondary student was Spokane. And so I saw this really wonderful like Indigenous-focused conference and I had mentors there that I still like call up every once in a while and friends. And I just remember the old coordinator, Ty, saying to me like, or saying to the group like, I'm stepping down, we need somebody else to step in who's interested? And Dom and I both like raised our hands and was like, sure, I have no idea what we're doing, but we'll figure it out. And like, you know, there was grow, there was definitely some growing pains, but it, it's been so rewarding to see and bring students from all over North America to these conferences and just to see the relationships and like development of like academics and researchers and biologists come out of it. And I'm [00:23:00] hoping eventually to c- see that come to more of a year-round program, similar to the Leadership Institute, but we still have work to do there where it's like more engaging. It's not just a once you know, once a year we all meet up at the conference kind of thing. I want it to be more of like, Hey, here's a network of people you can talk to and here's resources you can have and a, a group of us can kind of support each other 'cause there's not a lot of Indigenous wildlife professionals represented still within the society.

So I'm hoping programs like this can kind of help bring that to the forefront.

[00:23:35] Katie Perkins: Yeah. Awesome. Could talk just a little bit more about that collaboration and kind of like what you talked about during your plenary of just, you know things that often are wrong and, and what can we do better to get it right.

[00:23:47] Remington Bracher: For sure. Like, you you know, for so long, the people within this realm were kind of cast aside. It wasn't that ma- you know, it wasn't that long ago that the idea of Indigenous knowledge was just kind of like, oh, that's hearsay, [00:24:00] or that's anecdotal. So we're seeing that massive swing the other way now, which is really great for people in general, but the Indigenous community. So there's a lot of misconceptions I think, of what like Indigenous knowledge can and should be used for and how it can be applied. 

My biggest thing when it comes to working with communities is like, it's the relationship. What relationship do you have with that community or nations in general? And how are you planning to improve that or you know, say you have this big research project that you want input from communities on. Were they at the table when this was like, first started to be thought about? Like there's a difference between collaboration, and co-creating something. So, you know, the sooner you can bring on Indigenous, uh, nations, be that leadership or knowledge holders, or however your project needs to be, the sooner you [00:25:00] can get those key people into the room and have a, a relationship that's built on trust and respect, the easier your process is gonna be. So Indigenous inclusion, like and worldview, especially youth, is so important.

So how you get youth out on the landscape learning these skill with you while you're doing your work, I think is such an easy way to connect with these communities because. Like fundamentally, our worldview and our spirituality is tied into the land. So what better than having biologists out in the field with nation members, like sharing stories and personal perspectives on these, like deeply meaningful things that we work every day with. And so like my big push is always to get Indigenous youth involved. Obviously like seeking elder support and, and, how we should work together and if they, they're always going to be able to give perspectives on like animal [00:26:00] care 'cause to us, it's not just an animal, it's a relative. It's our brothers, sisters, cousins, moms, dads. So like that's how we view it. So trying, not trying to use passive methods of monitoring and research versus, you know, immobilizing and tranquilizing flying around in helicopters typically of what I've seen. uh, most nations has contention with when it comes to research. They just find that process very, it's like you're holding dominion over the animal and that's not exactly what is, not exactly acceptable in our worldviews, and I don't wanna go pan-Indigenous, but that's just some commonality I've seen. And just trying to figure out, is this research question even of interest to communities, like again, just that relationship, the better the relationship you have with these community members and who you're trying to collaborate with, the better you'll understand what they're wanting to work on [00:27:00] and where they have time and capacity to give to you because, you know, nations get fielded requests from industry, from federal government, provincial government, NGOs, and they all are biding for the same amount of time and. So I always go back, especially at my work and be like, "Okay, what are we offering in return?

Like what is something that we can give? If that's collaboration, if that's like a seat at the table for decision-making. What, what are we kinda offering in return instead of just being a drain on the community time? And I think a lot of those little aspects there really help long-term relationship, that you'll get better and better research and collaboration and co-creation. The first few times you do it, it'll just keep getting easier and easier.

[00:27:52] Katie Perkins: Definitely. What are some projects kind of on the horizon for you that you're excited about?

[00:27:58] Remington Bracher: Well, we're [00:28:00] trying to build some sort of advisory circle or governance structure at the park I'm at right now with all of these nations. So what that will look like, I have no idea yet. There are examples across Parks Canada's, uh, national parks that we can look at and kind of tailor a little bit to, but everything's so regionally and like regional context is so important when we start doing these things. So I'm really going to be curious on what that looks like in, you know, let's say three years and how that looks. That's my main kind of project right now. I have lots of other little side projects that I would love to see done. Like, getting some Indigenous people out doing cultural burns. I would love to see a proper harvest in our park. Obviously, that's my whole research, so would love to see a hunt sooner rather than later. But I also realize that proper, like things need to be in place beforehand. But yeah, [00:29:00] those are my main, my main projects that are on my plate right now. As far as professionally, I do have uh, a couple hide camps coming up with a bunch of Indigenous students, which I'm really looking forward to this past, what was that, February or Mar- Yeah, February, we did a big hide camp. Uh, with 40 students and, uh, we processed 14 hides. Pretty much all of them were supplied from the hunting program that I also was running. So it was like this really cool moment of like reliving that the hunts together with the students that got to harvest their animals to now processing and like trying to tan their own hides. So my goal is to eventually get this nice little mentorship program for Indigenous youth where we kind of start with ceremony and we go out on the land together and we go hunting, and then we process the animal. We make dry meat, we, you know, cut up our steaks and our roasts and everything. [00:30:00] And then we switch to hide tanning.

And then a big kind of final thing is like making regalia, making drums like this really cultural pieces that like, they'll be able to remember and honor the animal's life from start to finish 'cause they got to, you know, connect with it and have a relationship with it out on the land. Then eating it. Then, like you're wearing like regalia, like beaded earrings or hair ties from this animal that you got to take a part of their, like you got to utilize the entire thing. So that's, that's something that I've been doing in the background for a few years, trying to get it off the ground.

And this year was the first year we finally got like a hide tanning camp going. We're hoping to have another one at the end of April. We'll see how that goes. We're currently looking for funds, so we'll see how it goes.

[00:30:53] Katie Perkins: Yeah. That's awesome. I love that you're like, you're so close to completing your full circle of like getting it all done. That sounds like a [00:31:00] really

[00:31:00] Remington Bracher: Yeah. 

[00:31:00] Katie Perkins: Great experience that you're being able to provide the people in your community and the people you're around. I know that, a lot of us, like it's no secret that working in wildlife and can be really heavy and really challenging, but what are you seeing and what are you experiencing that is still making you hopeful for the future of wildlife conservation?

[00:31:22] Remington Bracher: Yeah. That's that's, a great question. 

I had a mentor at the U of A that always told me to focus on the wins instead of the losses, because you'll get absolutely depressed otherwise. And I've kind of taken that to heart. So, for me, like especially working with bison, it's been incredible because they, bison as a whole, I would argue are kind of on the up and up with all these renaturation projects. So like really seeing like, and like getting to talk to communities that went from having almost no relationship with this species to bringing them back to their land and seeing like the ceremonies [00:32:00] that come out of it and the youth getting excited and like, you know, a few of the schools, they harvest a buffalo and then they'll bring it into the gymnasium and then they'll all process it together. Like, to me, those are opportunities I wish I had as a kid growing up to sit there and listen to elders and knowledge keepers work on this species and get some, like, very specific knowledge about this process or this species and relative. So that really does my heart a lot of good and seeing a lot of our free-ranging herds, like bison up in the north, like the Hay-Zama herds or the the ones up in the Yukon and Alaska, like they're doing incredible.

The growth rate is amazing. And you're seeing kind of like more acceptance of them on the landscape in certain areas. And so that gives me a lot of hope. You know, we biologists, we get unfortunately dragged into a lot of like, the discussions about, uh, natural resource development and go down that [00:33:00] unfortunate rabbit hole of like all of the impacts that we're having on the natural world. And yeah, I just try to latch on to these little wins with each community because maybe to the grand scheme of the, like species or to the country, it doesn't matter. But to that individual nation, it's one of the most important things that has happened in the last 10 years, 15 years that it's worth just sitting in like in that moment and listening to community members. It really does bring your spirit up.

[00:33:36] Katie Perkins: What do you feel when you walk up on a herd or when you're in the process of, you know, working with them, what does that feel like to you? 

[00:33:44] Remington Bracher: Oh, it's, uh, it's so, so strange you say that. 'cause I joke about this a bunch, but like, my experiences in Banff, I almost never, I don't think I ever actually saw the herd because they always left the area I was in. Immediately. [00:34:00] So I never got to see them. I could see where there were remnants and everything.

So like the opportunity to even be in the backcountry, kind of in the area they are and seeing how they're changing the ecosystems was always so fascinating to me. My wife is a vegetation specialist, so she loves talking about plant communities and the different species that bison prefer over other ones.

So, you know, I, g- I sat there and I l- listen and kind of look at the landscape now a little bit differently in most areas than I would previously, but then I go from this experience of like elusive experience with the Banff herd, and then I go to Elk Island, where you just drive up the road and they're there. And there, you know, there are hundreds of them. And so it's such a contrast, but to me, being able to see them every day and interact with them and see, you know, where they're going and where their new home is gonna [00:35:00] be, and talking to uh, the nations has been such an incredible like difference because it's like I have this relationship with them that I interact with them every day. When I look at buffalo now, knowing what I know and working with who I do work with, I see this cultural keystone species, this cultural identity embedded within these animals. I see my own band sitting there. Like our symbol is a massive buffalo, uh, that's blue and gold. And so I think about like why we use that symbol, because like fundamentally, a lot of the Plains Cree, Blackfoot, you know, you name it all the way up into the north had such a intrinsic relationship with this animal that was so interwoven into every aspect of their identity, be it ceremony, be it art, be it like their tipis, their shelters, regalia. And now when I look at them and knowing that I [00:36:00] get to restore parts of that. And to like, whatever, you know, we want to define as cultural restoration. It's so rewarding to sit back and just like really see them that way. I don't know how else to explain that. I'm not doing it justice, but.

[00:36:19] Katie Perkins: No, I can see how important it is and how, how rewarding it really must be for you to get to, you know, work on that and, and complete that from the biological side, but from the cultural side as well. 

[00:36:30] Remington Bracher: Totally. Like down in the states, you have, you know, the Yellowstone bison and the Intertribal Buffalo Council. The Yellowstone is like the major source population for a lot of these renaturation projects. Here in Canada, Elk Island and Grasslands by far are the two main sources. So being able to be at the essential conservation hub of buffalo/bison in Canada is just so cool to me. You know, when I started, [00:37:00] working with the species, I worked at national office doing a lot of policy aspects, and now, and knowing that Elk Island did this transfer program and the handling and everything to now being in that position is a very like full circle moment to where I started to where I am. I'm like, oh feels incredible. I am very appreciative of the opportunities I've been given thus far.

[00:37:23] Katie Perkins: Awesome. Maybe just as a closing, like what words of advice or, you know, information would you give to people that maybe haven't ever worked with Indigenous thoughts and knowledge and are maybe wanting to learn more about that. Do you have any words of advice or encouragement for that? 

[00:37:40] Remington Bracher: Yeah for sure. I think if you're looking to work and start those relationships, being as open and honest with your intentions with the communities is gonna be the best way forward. There is lots of literature out there. I highlighted one during my plenary that I think everybody should read. It's called the Ten [00:38:00] Calls to Action for Natural Scientists. If you're looking to kind of establish those relationships and you're just kind of navigating that now, that's a good read of, you know, some just general ideas of how to do that respectfully. And you know, honestly, just remember everywhere you go is gonna be different.

The regional context be it the Indigenous history there or the relationship if you're re-representing the federal or state government or provincial government is gonna be different than if you're a just, you know, consultant or a biologist working for some sort of other NGO, it's, the relationship's gonna be different.

The points of talking are gonna be different, and it's not because you as a person, they're mad at you. But if you're wearing a, you know, a federal agency uniform, there's a lot of history to unpack with that and a lot of context that you need to be aware of. [00:39:00] So I think that'd be my biggest takeaway is like if you're gonna approach these situations remember what you represent and try not to take things personally and get as much information about the context of the current relationship prior to that first meeting. Just, you know, what historically was done, what challenges are currently on are on, on the reservation, if that's where you're going and what might get brought up you know, from an elder about like historical injustices that, and just try to remove yourself from, remove your identity away from your uniform, I think is a big thing. I, I struggle with that a lot working for the federal government. It's, it's a weird thing but I'm trying to come to grips with and a lot of the times the nations will come up to me afterwards and be like, we're not mad at you individually, it's, it's about what you're wearing. It's about the history that comes with Parks Canada or comes with the federal government, whatever they be. 

[00:39:59] Katie Perkins: [00:40:00] Right. Well thank you Remington, for joining us. I loved learning more about your story and hearing about the bison restoration efforts and, and your experience with TWS. So just thanks for joining us on the show today. 

[00:40:11] Remington Bracher: Thank you and uh, thanks for having me.