Conservation on Tribal Land with Julie Thorstenson

Indigenous people have been involved with wildlife conservation and management in the Americas for thousands of years. But it’s only since the 1980s when different Tribes in the U.S. organized into the Native American Fish and Wildlife Society.

In this episode of “Our Wild Lives,” Julie Thorstenson, executive director of the Native American Fish and Wildlife Society (NAFWS) and a citizen of the Cheyenne River Sioux Nation discusses her background working with black-footed ferret reintroduction on Tribal land. 

She also talks about her experience collaborating with Tribes and First Nations through the NAFWS and the ways that Indigenous knowledge contributes to wildlife management.

“Our Wild Lives” is The Wildlife Society’s biweekly podcast, sharing compelling stories from wildlife professionals doing critical work around the world. Your hosts, Katie Perkins and Ed Arnett, of The Wildlife Society, bring you thought-provoking conversations with leading experts and emerging voices.

Further reading:

Native American Fish and Wildlife Society - https://www.nafws.org/

From the Field Publication - https://www.nafws.org/from-the-field

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Transcript

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[00:00:03] Julie Thorstenson:  Tribes have been stewarding or living on these lands for time immemorial and successfully and so they have a knowledge that's with them. Unfortunately, most of our, our languages are oral, our histories are oral, so you don't have the, the written down version that Western science does all the time, but that doesn't mean that the knowledge isn't still there. It's being passed down from generation to generation. 

[00:00:39] Ed Arnett: Welcome to the Our Wild Lives podcast, and today we're speaking with Julie Thorstenson. And Julie is the, the Executive Director of the Native American Fish and Wildlife Society, longtime Wildlife Society member. Julie, it's really great to see you, and welcome to the podcast. 

[00:00:54] Julie Thorstenson: Yeah, thanks for having me. 

[00:00:56] Katie Perkins: So Julie, what sparked your interest in wildlife management? How did you [00:01:00] get to where you are now?

[00:01:01] Julie Thorstenson: Well, I, I grew up on a, a cow-calf operation. My folks are ranchers, cattle ranchers on the Cheyenne River Sioux Reservation. I'm Lakota. I'm a citizen of Cheyenne River Sioux Nation, North Central South Dakota. I'm very proud of that. And, you know, i'm the second of five the oldest girl.

Spent a lot of time outside. We went fishing a lot. We were horseback a lot, and my folks pointed out a lot of things just, you know, out, being out in nature. And my dad would point out the, the grouse dance grounds or deer, or, you know, we, we did, with my grandma, we went berry picking in the, in the summer and the fall.

So just kind of being inundated in that and really wanting to kind of live in that lifestyle and, and be in nature is what led me to it. And I originally thought I was gonna go into something more ag related. And then when I got to college at South Dakota State University, I, I started wanting have a, a broader range for my education, so I went into biology, and really [00:02:00] liked just the, the diversity within it and all the different things that you could do.

And, when I graduated with my bachelor's, I was looking for a job and my brother was back here on the reservation working for the Prairie Management Program, working with black-footed ferrets, and he told me the tribe was hiring a habitat wildlife biologist, and got the job, and led, led me down this career path.

And I, I really like working for tribes, and I've worked for my tribe in various capacities and I, I just, I really like the work. I like being a wildlife biologist, but I also like being part of something bigger. And so that's kinda what, what got me here, I guess.

[00:02:37] Katie Perkins: What was that first experience like working with black-footed ferrets?

[00:02:40] Julie Thorstenson: Oh, it was, it was amazing. I was, I was begging to go help because they were kind of a different team. I worked for the Game, Fish and Parks Department for Cheyenne River, and the, the ferret was its own program under a different, a different program and I kept asking like, "Can I, can I go? Can I go?" And finally my boss is like, "All right, you can go."

And it's just [00:03:00] like- You're out there, you know, and it's pitch black, and you're looking with your spotlight and you see that, that green eye shine, and it's, it's like a rush. And we, we had a really successful reintroduction site on Cheyenne River. We were the third most successful in the, in the early 2000s, and so I got to be a part of that and, and seeing, seeing the ferrets and helping to capture them and you know, pit tag them and do all that.

So it was, it was amazing. It was, it was a once in a lifetime opportunity, and I'm so fortunate to have got to do it right here at home, so. 

[00:03:31] Katie Perkins: Had you ever seen them before you did that work?

[00:03:34] Julie Thorstenson: No, uh-uh, I had never seen one. I mean, I'd seen ferrets, but not the black-footed ferret. You know, I'd seen some weasels around and mink, but, seeing them pop their little heads out from the prairie dog mound, it's, a, it's a rush. 

 [00:04:00] Oh. No,

No, unfortunately we had, we had plague so that plague came through and wiped it out. They, they're still doing, you know, some efforts to reintroduce on kind of some smaller prairie dog complexes, but nothing like they were. I mean, I think we were, I think we had, like, 170 you know, on the ground, which was just really cool, and a huge prairie dog complex.

But unfortunately they were part of the plague and, and haven't really recovered as, as well as they would like them to. But still have a, a very dedicated individual, which I will give a shout-out, Mike Claymore, he's been the heart of Cheyenne River's Prairie Management Program [00:05:00] for decades, and he's still very committed to, the reintroduction and, you know, the success, success of that. 

[00:05:28] Julie Thorstenson: Yeah, so the job that I was hired for originally, with Cheyenne Rivers Game and Fish was, part of funding that we had received, called Title VI, and it was mitigation money for the damming of Lake, Missouri River and creation of Lake Oahe and all the the lands and riparian area that the tribe lost.

So my job as wildlife habitat biologist was to do restoration work. So I did a lot of cottonwood planting. You know, we did a lot of just tree planting and habitat [00:06:00] mitigation and restoration work. And one of the things that I was seeing when I entered grad school was that we didn't really have a good system to pick sites, like site selection.

So our reservation here on Cheyenne River is 2.8 million acres. It's very checkerboarded. The tribe owns about 1.5 million acres of that. So finding those sites that were optimal for cottonwood restoration work was kind of hard. And then, you know, you had to work with the landowner, the lessee, to make sure that you could get it. So my project, which now it seems very very kind of minimal and simple compared to what mapping is now, but I used GIS for site selection of native cottonwood riparian restoration sites. So developed kind of a model using soil type and aspect and all of that and being able to kind of rank these sites on the reservation based on land ownership too, to where we could then go out and start working with the lessee or the landowner and, and start working on [00:07:00] restoration work?

So it was very applicable to the job I was doing at the time, and I was part of a, a project funded by the Kellogg Foundation through South Coast University that was called the Prairie PhD Cohort, and it was a group of tribal college professionals and tribal fish and wildlife professionals that we, we were in a cohort and getting our, our higher level graduate degrees.

So my sister and I got our master's, several people got their PhDs. And you know, this is before a lot of online work, so we were going and doing, like, 40 hours intense coursework for a week all over the state. And yeah, so I was really fortunate to be a part of that and to be able to get my master's and, and build something that was useful and applicable to the work that I was doing on Cheyenne River. 

[00:07:48] Katie Perkins: That 

[00:07:48] Julie Thorstenson: was a project that was funded by the National Science Foundation, and I looked at incorporating culture into ethics education for scientists and engineers. So I worked with private colleges, I worked with [00:08:00] tribal colleges, I worked with public universities, and then I worked with a, a college in Bolivia looking for if, if there are common things in ethics or are there common things that everyone kind of agrees on that we can, we can use and build ethics education.

And so then I, I built a course, a graduate course, and delivered that at the partners universities and, and colleges. And It was really good to see the interaction between different perspectives. And it was my first introduction to qualitative research, which I can remember thinking, " I'm never gonna use this."

But I use it all the time. It's... Especially in this role you know, we're constantly asking tribes and asking our membership, like, "What can we do to help? What are things that you're dealing with?" And then being able to code those and develop programming based on themes that we, we get from open-ended questions.

I, I use it all the time. So very fortunate I got to go to Bolivia for a while and conduct some interviews and, and meet some of the participants and, and see, what life was like in, in Bolivia. [00:09:00] So it was, a, it was incredible opportunity, incredible experience. 

[00:09:17] Julie Thorstenson: Yeah, so the Native American Fish and Wildlife Society was founded in, in the early 1980s, and this was a time when tribes were seeing a lot of wins in legal battles. So this is when Mescalero Apache versus New Mexico, White Mountain Apache versus Arizona, and the Boldt Decision in the Pacific Northwest.

And these all helped to reaffirm tribes' authorities in managing their own hunting and fishing and their resources within their reservation boundaries. So tribal fish and wildlife professionals were starting to kind of be in these same rooms together and having conversations about, "Hey, we need a place where we can get together and, and really be able to bring our, our issues together in unified voice to a national level." And so they, they founded the Native American Fish and Wildlife [00:10:00] Society, and our mission is really just to assist Native American and Alaska Native tribes with their preservation, conservation, enhancement of their fish and wildlife resources. So we act mainly as a, like, a liaison. We try to help tribes to connect with resources. We provide a lot of trainings. We do education work for, for youth. We do a lot of technical assistance. and know, just kind of, it's a little different every day, is wh- which is what I really love about the job. I get to see a lot of different, like, different parts of the country and, and get to see what tribes are doing.

I'm always completely amazed by the work that they're doing and get to do some advocacy for tribal fish and wildlife and conservation. So yeah.

[00:10:42] Katie Perkins: Awesome. So you talked about getting to travel all over for your current role. Is there a project that you've seen or, you know, been a part of lately that has been really impactful for you?

[00:10:52] Julie Thorstenson: I've, I've gotten to travel to some really cool places. I do love the field work. You know, I spend a lot of time... I think people think my [00:11:00] job is, is, a lot of glamorous travel and it's, I mean, you know, Ed, it's a lot of conference rooms, it's a lot of hotels- Yeah ... and it's a lot of airports. But those rare moments when I do get to go out in the field are, are really cool. A few years ago, I traveled to the, the Yukon River 

[00:11:16] Katie Perkins: near Galena, 

[00:11:17] Julie Thorstenson: Alaska, and got to go out to some of the fish camps, and that was really impactful being able to see the Alaska natives and talk to them about their fish camps, which were empty. There's no fish. There's no fish at the fish camp. And, and understanding how that's impacting them, not only just in subsistence, but also, also in their culture, their language, all these things that kind of ripple down. In November, we had our Southeast-Northeast Conference in, on the Seminole Tribe of Florida, and I got to go out with the guys and we went fyke netting, which was really cool. The cool part was just being out in the middle of the Everglades and, you? Know, thigh high water.

[00:11:56] Katie Perkins: yeah

[00:11:57] Julie Thorstenson: The not so cool part was [00:12:00] seeing all the invasive species in the fyke nets and all the ornamental fish and things that people are just releasing into the wild. So that was not so cool. 

[00:12:10] Katie Perkins: In 

[00:12:10] Julie Thorstenson: February, we traveled to the Southwest to visit several of the tribes and just kind of see what's going on there. Went to the Zuni 

[00:12:17] Katie Perkins: pueblo 

[00:12:18] Julie Thorstenson: got to see their aviary, and the work that they're doing there is remarkable. Visited Navajo Nation, and they have an incredible program there. visited Acoma Pueblo and listened to the work that they're doing. And I'm just always, I'm always blown away at the amount of work tribes are doing. You're not really reading about it as much, I don't think, as, as kind of the states and some of the federal work. But there's just a lot of really great projects going on out in Indian country.

And unfortunately, you know, not, not a lot of people hear about that work, 

... 

[00:12:47] Ed Arnett: Yeah, that's one of the reasons I'm really glad we coordinated. You reached out on some sections of our Wildlife Professional magazine. So our members are, are , getting a snippet or two on what's happening, and really appreciate [00:13:00] that relationship. And we can do more on the communication of that as well.

So forward to that down the road. I'll shift gears just a little bit. I, I teach a policy course at Colorado State, and one of my modules centers on tribal wildlife management. And we don't dig too deep into all the policies, but one of the unique things that I've learned over the years is, is the co-management status that some tribes have, not all, but some, with the federal government and federal lands.

Could you explain that a little bit and maybe dig in and our listeners kinda understand what that relationship is? 

[00:13:36] Julie Thorstenson: Yeah. I mean, I think there's several layers to that. The, probably the, the most frequent one is the Indian Self-Determination Education and Assistance Act of 1975, or Public Law 93-638. If you work in Indian country, you'll find that 638 is used as an adjective, a verb, a noun just about everything. You know, we kind of talk in its own lingo, but basically what [00:14:00] that is, is it started with Department of Health and Human Services and Indian Health Service and Department of Interior with the BIA, and it gives tribes the ability to contract 

[00:14:11] Katie Perkins: services 

[00:14:12] Julie Thorstenson: that the federal government would be providing to tribes.

They can contract it. So some tribes will contract or compact, which is something different, but they'll, they'll take the they'll contract or compact those services. So, like, game and fish our law enforcement. The, the health services, they'll contract those. They'll get the funding from the federal government, and then they'll do the services themselves that they were promised through treaties or executive orders, legislation, whatever that may be.

So there, there are quite a few tribes that, that use that in different capacities. Some of them use it for their game and fish, and, and then also, you know, the... I believe in '92 or '94, that authority was extended to federal land managing agencies within Department of Interior, so Fish and Wildlife, Park Service, BLM, [00:15:00] BOR. Those agencies can also enter into the self-determination contracts where tribes will contract, and we saw the Jamestown S'Klallam Tribe, I believe they took, did a self-governance compact of the Dungeness National Wildlife Refuge within the last year or two. So, you know, they- they'll get the funding, and then they'll do the service. And 

[00:15:20] Katie Perkins: there's 

[00:15:20] Julie Thorstenson: that type. There's also co-management, where those are dif- a little bit different type of agreement. You'll see those maybe more in, like, USDA or with Forest Service or co-stewardship. There's the big co-stewardship agreement between the Great Sioux Nation in South Dakota and the Forest Service and it just kind of show, you know, how we're gonna show up, how we're gonna work together, what, what that is.

The tribe wants to have access to their traditional homelands, whether that's just for ceremony or for gathering or just to get their their culture reinvigorated into the youth or to their people. These are, these are different ways that they can do that. 

[00:15:54] Ed Arnett: Yeah, when I became educated on this co-management system, it was through the Nez Perce [00:16:00] Tribe, and it was with the Forest Service. So it's, it's, it's unique, and I don't think a lot of people know about it, quite frankly. To that end we've talked a lot personally, and we've heard, heard discussions a lot during our conference about the interface of Western science and tribal knowledge. There's terms out there, traditional ecological knowledge. I know you and I have talked, and it's like just knowledge to us. But how does-- how do you see that interface, how it has played out, and how it could and should potentially play out during, you know, meaningful collaborations with tribes and that information and how it guides decisions?

[00:16:41] Julie Thorstenson: It's being passed down from generation to generation. And I often get, like, questions about how tribes integrate traditional ecological knowledge or how do they integrate indigenous knowledge. And it-- I don't personally believe it's something that, that indigenous people do or tribal people do consciously.

It's not like they're working and then they're like, "Oh, yeah, now I have to do this [00:17:00] cultural thing or have to do this traditional ecological knowledge." It's just the way that they're- that they do things and the way that they've been taught. And so those things are just kind of... they're already there.

They're just deep-rooted within who people are, and they're, they're doing them subconsciously without really thinking about it. Now, I-- like you said, it's knowledge. We often get from Western science, it's not peer-reviewed. We, we argue it is peer-reviewed. It's maybe not peer... 

[00:17:24] Ed Arnett: Depends on how you define peer. 

[00:17:26] Julie Thorstenson: I mean, is it not?

Has it not been tried and tested? I mean, obviously it has or you wouldn't have the population still existing. They would've died if it didn't work, right? So, yeah, I think there's a, there's a lot to learn from, from tribal professionals and from indigenous knowledge, traditional ecolog- ecological knowledge.

I mean, there's a lot there. We see it as valid science. We see it just as valid as Western science. We see an elder's knowledge in lines with a PhD, So it's just a little different a little different curriculum maybe, but [00:18:00] we still s- feel that the value is there. 

[00:18:02] Ed Arnett: Yeah. I suspect there's been an evolution of the integration of that knowledge in land use planning and such. I mean, tribes play pretty heavy at least they should and early and often be brought to the table on land use management planning and that kind of stuff. 

[00:18:18] Katie Perkins: I'm 

[00:18:18] Ed Arnett: just kinda curious, have you seen kind of an evolution of acceptance, or is there still resistance, or is, is it being integrated into these plans as, as it should be? 

[00:18:28] Julie Thorstenson: 'I would say it's getting better. In, in my career, I would say that it's, it's at least part of the conversation more than it was before. 

I still hear from a lot of tribes that they get something that after it's already done, then they get kind of a what do you think. That they're not really brought in at the beginning stages of the project, or the beginning stages of the conversations to have input at that stage. It's more of like, "Here's what we did, now what do you think?" So I think there's, there's still some of that going on. I think you're starting to see more, [00:19:00] more tribal voices in different places, and so it's bringing a, a bigger awareness to what's going on.

I mean, of course, I have to put a plug in for our publication, From the Field, which is a, is an open access publication on our website. But it is tribal research, tribal science. It's western science, it's traditional ecological knowledge, it's case studies, it's, rapid communications.

A little bit of everything, but consider it we consider it valid research. And I think, I think when you read it, you will see that there's some very traditional Western, and there's some more focus more on, on the traditional ecological knowledge side of things. But it's, it's great. It's all work done by tribal professionals or done on tribal lands. So, we're hoping it's gonna take off, and we'll s- we'll be able to get more indigenous voices into, into this, this conversation. 

[00:19:51] Ed Arnett: This is pretty new.

[00:19:53] Julie Thorstenson: April 15th we released

[00:19:54] Ed Arnett: I was gonna say, that's a-- I wrote it down. That's the first I'd, I'd seen, so that's awesome.

[00:19:58] Julie Thorstenson: Yeah, no, we're very excited about [00:20:00] it. You know, when I first started working here in May of 2019 asking tribes like, "What are, what are some of your needs?" A lot of times they said like access to, to publications and research was, hard, and literature and, and so we really wanted to make sure that whatever we put out there was open access, and people were able to read it and, and get a different perspective.

So we're, we're very proud of it, and it's a labor of love. And Hannah Golden is one of our biologists, and she spent a lot of time on it, along with our research publications committee. And, we have open submissions now. We're hoping to do one at least- At least annually. I don't know that we'll do a, a printed version like that every year, but I like to look at it in hard copy so we did a few.

[00:20:39] Katie Perkins: Yeah. Julie, can you walk us through maybe one or two of the studies that are in that feature, if you can think of any off the top of your head?

[00:20:47] Julie Thorstenson: Um, Yeah, there's one called Tribal Data Sharing Agreements for Conservation Science and Management, it was by Christina Perrella, Kayla Hickman, and Jelena... Sorry, Jelena, I don't know how to say your name. [00:21:00] Vukomanovic. It's a rapid communication, and it's just about data-sharing agreements and kinda some advice for tribes on, on what they should be on the lookout if people are wanting to do research with them and, and really making sure to incorporate data sovereignty and data management into those agreements. So that one's pretty cool. There's also one that's really more heavily on traditional ecological knowledge. It's a case study on hunting and using moose in Alaska, and this is pretty cool. It talks about, you know, how tribes in Alaska are reliant on, on moose for subsistence and, and how the impacts of management affects them. So some cool stuff in there. Something for everyone.

[00:21:36] Ed Arnett: So in terms of collaborative conservation with tribes, and especially when there's multi-jurisdiction state, federal involved there an example or let's just say maybe not an example, but some lessons learned or best practices for people that are trying to collaborate with tribes on a big, big project like migration or something like that where multiple jurisdictions are [00:22:00] involved? 

[00:22:00] Julie Thorstenson: I think, I mean, we all have to recognize that wildlife don't care about our political boundaries, right? So it's, it's important that we work together. I think there's a lot of there's a lot of good work going on. I know there's a lot of, like you said, there's a lot of crossing work that's going on and has been successful between tribes and states and, and the federal government accessing the federal funds and being able to work through the differences of that, but also work with the state and making sure that the tribe has an equal voice and they're not just brought in as kind of checking off a box at the, that meets the state priority, that it's actually meets the tribe's priority. I mean, I guess I would say some of the best projects that we've seen in the last couple years have been through the NFWF funding for the America Ecosystem Restoration Initiative. Those grants have put a lot of money into Indian country and been able to really focus on, on tribes being able to 

[00:22:51] Katie Perkins: put 

[00:22:51] Julie Thorstenson: their priorities first.

Unfortunately, we're, we're often seeing Indian country because of the lack of funding that we're having to write towards a, a grant [00:23:00] priority, right? That maybe is not, is not exactly the tribe's priority, we're trying to match our priority with the funding priority. And this funding stream allowed tribes to really say, "No, this is our priority," and then the funding fit the, fit that.

So we've seen a lot of work there. A lot of tribes have been successful with that program and, and I think, you know, within the next five to 10 years we'll really be able to see the impact of that. Other things I would say is there's some tribes that really, or some states that work really good on their state wildlife action plans and, and they really reach out to tribes and, and they reach out to them in those beginning stages and, and have conversations so that their input is put into the final product. And, and those are great. Those are great examples. Unfortunately, not every state is, is doing that, but there are examples that are, and that's, that's good work too.

[00:23:48] Ed Arnett: You mentioned funding Julie. Obviously the entire conservation community, and quite frankly, across the board, a lot of different program areas or disciplines, if you will, are, are suffering from some [00:24:00] federal funding cuts and losses and such. I, I, I suspect it's hit tribes pretty hard. But talk about your funding sources and the importance of, like, state and tribal wildlife grants and some of these sources and how you get things done on, on pretty tight budgets. 

[00:24:16] Julie Thorstenson: Yeah, and, and I mean, I know, Ed, this is not new to you, but maybe to the listeners, tribes do not receive Pittman-Robertson or Dingell-Johnson funds, which are excise taxes that are paid and used to help support many state-led conservation and fish and game projects. Tribes still, we still pay those.

Our, our populations are counted in the distribution. Our lands are counted in distribution. We still pay them as citizens. However, we, we do not receive those funds directly have... are not eligible to receive those funds directly. So we do see funding through BIA, through self-determination, self-governance compacts and contracts. And then, you know, some tribes are able to offset their, their, funding with hunting and fishing revenue or land lease revenue, [00:25:00] or some have casinos, but that's not the case for everything. So you have some really good grant writers out there, and tribes are really hustling and, and finding those good partners.

Philanthropy has stepped up a little bit and been, been able to fund some of that. Probably the largest, you know, funding for Fish and Wildlife in Indian country, though, for tribes is through the BIA. And not to get too political, but the fiscal '27 budget has zeroed that entire amount out, so that's not a great, a great thing for us.

A little stressful. 

Along with the course of state and tribal wildlife grants and, and, you know, those are good project grants. Those are good project funding, and a lot of tribes rely on those. What is missing really is that dedicated annual base funding for tribal fish and wildlife conservation, and that's something that we-we're co- continuously advocating for, the need for, for that funding to be there every year. Something that tribes can rely on, that they don't have to compete against each other for, so. 

[00:25:53] Katie Perkins: Yeah, the funding is, is really hitting a lot of wildlife professionals hard, but, you know, is [00:26:00] there something that still gives you hope for conservation and collaboration on tribal lands and, and with tribes now and in the future?

[00:26:08] Julie Thorstenson: Oh Yeah, I mean, this job is... It's hard not to be hopeful when you see the work that's going on. And, we just had our national conference, and we had some tremendous youth there. We awarded several awards to a biologist of the year, and conservation officer of year, and emerging professional, and our Chief Sealth Award.

And, like, just seeing the work that people are doing and, and understanding the commitment that's there, and, and the compassion and the, the the relationship, I guess, that, that Tribal people, Native people have with the environment, and that desire to keep that reciprocal and, and sacred, I think keeps me hopeful.

And just, yeah, just listening to people and, seeing what others are doing, and I have an incredible staff. They keep me hopeful. Yeah, there's lots of things to... I mean, the money part's been like that for, lot of years, so it's [00:27:00] not... Yeah, unfortunately. 

I mean, that's not... I shouldn't say it's acceptable, but it's something that we will continue to advocate for and hope to see eventually corrected, but it doesn't mean that there's not great things going on out in, in, in Indian country right now by some really remarkable tribal fish and wildlife professionals. We are working on relaunching our website, and hopefully it'll be a little more user-friendly. As scientists, I think we got a little wordy, and we had a lot of information on there. So we're relaunching that. You know, that we've added a GIS story map to our website that shows kind of all the in-person events that we have for the year.

We've been doing a lot of NEPA training. We have a GIS training coming up. We'll have a lot of our regional conferences in the fall. Our summer youth practicums, we have one in Colorado coming up in July and then one in Alaska, I think it's also in July. So, you know, we're still, we're still moving and a-shaking. We got a lot going [00:28:00] on at this, at, in the NAFWS and we're here for tribes, and also here to answer questions. If anybody has a question or if they're looking for someone that's doing work in Indian country or looking for a connection, like, we probably manage the largest network of tribal fish and wildlife professionals, so we kinda know who's out there and what, what they're doing.

And we're just, you know, we're, we're staying hopeful. We're, gonna keep talking about the, the great work, amplifying the work that tribes are doing, and making sure that people understand that there are 575 federally recognized tribes, and they're all unique in, in different aspects, and that they have a lot to, to offer and to add to the, the conservation world. 

[00:28:40] Ed Arnett: Julie, what got you interested in TWS and becoming a member and being a member for quite a while now? 

[00:28:46] Julie Thorstenson: Yeah. I mean, originally it was as I was, young in my career, I was just kind of looking for, for the, the science, or research and kind of my community. So I think I joined when I was, [00:29:00] oh, probably in my 20s. And then coming back, you know, to the society, 'cause I was... I worked in academics for a while, then I also worked in healthcare for a while, and so coming back into the wildlife world, obviously TWS is one of the, you know, one of the well-known organizations and professional societies. And then the first national conference I went to, Carol Chambers was our keynote, and so kind of started talking to her, and we started working together on things for the ways that we collaborate with TWS. And yeah, just kinda- Just kind of a, a natural fit, I think. Just I s- I still wanna know what's going on in the Western science part of things.

I just wanna make sure that there's space for, for, tribal fish and wildlife professionals in, in that world that's not a separate table. 

[00:29:46] Ed Arnett: Yeah. Well, we appreciate you being a member and a leader in the wildlife conservation space, and I, I've deeply appreciated our connection and, and the relationships with the Native American Fish and Wildlife Society, and we've got more [00:30:00] to do and more we can work on and really look forward to it. Thanks for being with us, Julie. 

[00:30:05] Julie Thorstenson: Yeah. Thank you