EOS Traction for Your Workplace Goals

(EOS Episode 20) Choosing Between an EOS Implementer and Self-Implementation

• Michele Mollard

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In this episode of EOS-Traction for Your Workplace Goals, EOS Certified Implementer Michele Mollard welcomes a brother-and-sister team Lindsay VanDyken and Mark Paulson from Budget Blinds in Holland, Michigan. 

We explore how this sibling team moved from capacity crunch to clarity by adopting EOS - and their decision not to self-implement, but instead, chose the guidance of an EOS implementer. The story shows why clean tools, a steady cadence and outside facilitation turn good intentions into real traction.

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EOS-Traction for Your Workplace Goals is a Livemic Communications production.




Richard Piet:

I'm Richard Piet. Welcome back to EOS Traction for Your Workplace Goals with certified EOS implementer Michelle Mollard. These episodes land right here on this podcast. There are more of them, and so we invite you to subscribe so you're alerted when they come up. We talk about achieving the goals you have for your business and the process by which to do that. Michelle is a certified EOS implementer, and she joins us today with a couple of special guests. Who's with us, Michelle?

Michele Mollard:

Yes, thank you, Richard, for having us on. I get to say us. It's super excited to say us on. I am, we are joined uh by Lindsay Van Dyken and Mark Poulson, uh, actually a brother-sister team that own and operate the budget blinds out of Holland, Michigan and Grand Rapids, Michigan. And so they have quite a big uh territory to cover. And I'm also a customer of theirs and they do great work. So uh it's just really a fun, a fun circle that we've uh kind of made here as uh both customers and vendors of each other. So it's been fun.

Richard Piet:

Well, welcome to you both, uh Lindsay and Mark. And uh, if we were to have a whole conversation about blinds, I could probably come up with 5,700 questions to ask you about that alone. But our goal today is to talk about your journey with EOS. So I suppose I'd start by asking either one of you to talk a little bit about what made you decide you needed EOS?

Lindsey VanDyken:

Yeah, so we actually had a team building event in October of 2024. And part of that team building activity was going through our entire process and kind of doing a sticky note process from marketing all the way to, if needed, a warranty repair and all of the details in between. And we were really trying to understand each person's role and then the metrics and accountability that we could be putting in place so that we could get better at tracking. And I think that that kind of started us wondering okay, we have all of the details, but now how do we do this? How do we track accountability and metrics and goals?

Richard Piet:

Mark, were you feeling as though you weren't sure what the tracking was that you were trying to do?

Mark Paulson:

Yeah, I was thinking back to that time, read a book on scaling. I don't remember the name of the book, but it described during this process. So we had a team event coming up, so we decided to do this process during that to kind of map our full, you know, from lead to install completion. So it was kind of a fun process to do where we map that all out. And then I think we were thinking like how, you know, right now we had the two territories, but thinking online, how can we scale this? And at our current startup, we were like, you know, we're at capacity because Lindsay and I are both we doing the company, but then also managing our individual pieces. So at the time you're in or all the EOS Lego now that we're getting more fluent in EOS, but we needed to add, you know, more people leadership, we needed traction, which is a big thing. We needed to start tracking things, holding people accountable hiding on those metrics. But the first step was kind of that, and then we were kind of overwhelmed with like our next steps and trying to do it really to do it ourselves was becoming overwhelming. And then Lindsay found EOS and brought it to my attention, and then from there we connected with Michelle.

Richard Piet:

Yeah, so Michelle, this is probably a pretty typical scenario, would you say? You meet folks who are saying, I'm trying to get all of it done, I'm overwhelmed, I can't do any more myself, we want to scale, all of these things, right? And then EOS comes along, you have an opportunity to determine whether or not this is a good fit. Obviously, budget blinds was a good fit. And then, just as Mark just said, there was some conversation about them trying to uh carry the ball themselves without the head coach like you to help them through it. This is not unusual. Is that true?

Michele Mollard:

It's absolutely not unusual, and actually we love it, right? And so we call it self-implementing, right? You're trying to implement EOS by yourself, right? DIY, do it yourself. Yeah, D-I-Y, right? And that is the reason an attraction book was written was ultimately the people would read that and do it themselves. And so it was always written that way. There's a plenty of books that have written that way. And we fully, as I I would talk to Lindsay initially first, uh the most, uh, and I just said, hey, how can I help? Because they were thinking really seriously about the line of it. And I just said, hey, if you choose not to use me, then how can I help? Can I get you a little tool? Can I help you with here? Hey, if you get stuck, call me. Because ultimately it's just having companies get what they want from their business. And that's the journey that they were ultimately on. And so we do everything as implementers in our power, whether that's having them hire us, but ultimately just make sure that they can use those tools. So exactly what they were going through was what most clients go through. And then exactly as how they approached me, they saw me on the website, got in touch, did it that way. And then we just had a conversation and kind of did the 90-minute meeting as they know this very well, and just did that and send and said, here's all the things. And then we had a few more conversations after that. And uh, I'll actually let them tell the story of what was going through their brains when, okay, now we had the decision to make. We don't want to do EOS. Yes. Are we gonna do it on our own or are we gonna do it with Michelle? Uh Richard, I'll teat it back up to you and then you can teat up to them. But I'd love to hear their stories because it's a really unique story, not hence why they're here with us today.

Richard Piet:

Yeah, let's talk about that. So, Lindsay, when you decided EOS was it, did you think we're gonna do this ourselves because we're awesome and we'll get it done?

Lindsey VanDyken:

Yes, and uh yes and yes. So I would say at the time I was in a peer group where several people were at least reading the book's traction and how to be a great boss. And so that was my first introduction to EOS. And then I heard them talking about EOS. And so after the meeting, I went and Googled it because I'm like, what exactly are they talking about? And I then kind of went down the rabbit hole of just online research on my own and was initially thinking self-implement and even use the EOS one tool. Like, and so that's what initially I brought to Mark. And then while I was on the site, I think that I just filled out a form of like, would you like to speak with someone more about this? And then that's how Michelle and I got connected. And then I would just say in her spiel, which she did a really good job because she was really casual with me and no pressure. So I think that that was helpful to not feel like I'm being pressured into something. But I remembered one of her stats was hey, like you probably could learn how to be an implementer, but how long is it gonna take you to do that while you're also completing your normal day-to-day work? And so I think that this stat, which Michelle, you can correct me if I'm wrong, was that it would likely take me four years to do it, but with Michelle, it would be two years. And so when I brought that content to Mark, I just said, let's just meet with her, like meet with her live and and talk through this together so you can hear her pitch, because she was really, I felt like giving me a lot of the details of why we should use a coach. And then just like how it is for everybody, is the reason many times you're not thinking about a coach is the money, and you're just thinking, like, I can do this, like um, we can run this, we can figure this out. But the four years compared to two-year implementation, I think that that's what got her in the door to then meet with Mark and I live.

Richard Piet:

Yeah. Mark, how did you think about it? Did you say, yep, we're gonna do this ourselves and we can manage it? And at what point did you say, well, maybe two years is better than four?

Mark Paulson:

I didn't even know what US was really until Michelle came in. I mean, Lindsay kind of explained it, but I was reading that book, and then it when Michelle came in and explained it, I was like, okay, this is similar, uh, maybe copied from EOS, the book I was reading, uh, potentially. So it made sense. I'm not thinking we were just thinking, like, how quickly can we do it? Because we need the help, obviously, and coaching. So I think it was the same day we decided. I mean, right after the meeting. So yeah, it all clicked, it all made sense to me.

Richard Piet:

Is this a typical progression, Michelle? You meet folks, they gotta know what this is about, and then they have to understand the process. And do they automatically say, we can do this, we'll just follow the acumen, we can handle it, and then change their mind, or what's the usual progression?

Michele Mollard:

Yeah, I can't say there's a usual one, right? So some people will try it on their own and go uh six months and then say nope and go four years and then say no. I mean, there isn't really a progression, right? I think it is, and it uh again, let's Lindsay and Mark tell the story, but it's realizing that you would have to be wearing two hats, and arguably in these guys' case, maybe three or four hats in a meeting. And that's really hard, right? And so we call we talk about implementers being facilitators, coaches, and teachers, right? Which is three hats, but one person owning that. And then so that you'd have to facilitate uh the conversation in the room, yet be in the room, like right. So she's saying, Hey, what about this? And then she'll walk around the other side of the table being funny, right? And be like, oh, this is what I think wearing my owner hat. And then I'm and now I'm in the implementer, right? Like if you can imagine this circle around the table going through there. And so it's really hard to do. And then the whole teacher thing, right? Like to know EOS. I've been surrounded around EOS for 15 years, right? And so there's a part of that that there's just nuances that I know that I I'm this is all I do. This is 100% what I do. They're 100% magnificent at blinds. Uh, and if I, well, I have tried, uh, and I have bought, you know, blinds from said hardware store and put them up and nope, right? Like not the same thing. So it's the same story, right? We all can relate to things like this. And I've tried to drywall my house and not so good because I don't do it for a living. It was a funny story, and Lindsay, um, I might embarrass you, but it was a funny story, is when I left there, physically in their space uh in Holland, I uh walked out and they said, Okay, so we'll hear from you in about two weeks. We're high on accountability. And then Lindsay says, Yep, I'll call you at Friday at two o'clock. And so we had that all set up that she would call me with an answer on Friday at two o'clock. And I wasn't even 20 minutes down the road because I wasn't home yet. She's like, Yeah, yeah, we're making the decision. So to your point, Richard, is like it's I never had it happen like that either, right? Even if they weren't trying to self-implement and they were trying to do it, they were always thinking about implementer. So there is no timeline to that. It's just really when it feels right. And I think as owners, as good owners as Mark and Lindsay are, like their guts are pretty good, right? They really have a sense of who they want to work with in personality. I think we do click. I push them a little bit, but a little bit nurturing as well. And so I think that they also felt like that. I think Lindsay said it when we talked about it is like, I'm not trying to sell them anything that they don't want, right? I mean, that's what sales get such an icky word with it, right? Is we just we're all pushing, pushing, pushing. I'm like, no, they want this. They want to scale it. Now let's just figure out what's the best fit and how that works. And so a little bit about me and how I approach things is ultimately I just want them better, like, period, full stop at whatever that takes. And I think most of us implementers have that same thing. And I think hopefully that's what you know, that's what my aim is in life and making sure they feel that way. And Lindsay kind of touched on that.

Richard Piet:

So I was thinking about what you said about the dual role. Yeah. Right? If you're in the meeting and Lindsay is being a business owner and then she's running to the other side of the table to be the implementer and this back and forth, this can get pretty tiring. I'm reminded of a nonprofit board and being the secretary of a nonprofit board. So I've been on a couple of those. Yeah. Hats off to you folks who are, but it's a similar thing. Instead of listening as a board member, you're listening as a secretary keeping notes, and then all of a sudden the board meeting's gone by and you didn't participate in it because you're busy being the note taker, the record keeper, right? It's a little bit of a dual role and it's hard to juggle. I saw this as being somewhat similar. There is also that slogan, that saying, right? That old saying that the doctor who treats himself as a fool for a patient, or you know, whatever that means. But the point is, it was going to be extra work, wasn't it, Lindsay, if you were going to play the dual role?

Lindsey VanDyken:

Yeah, that's right. So I just to kind of go back to that initial meeting with Michelle, I think we could easily see the experience that she was bringing. She just had a lot of experience and had been in US in different capacities. And it was like, she's an expert in this right now, like today she is. How long would it take me to get up and running? And so I think the minute she walked out the door, the other thing is her personality is a little more uh get up and go and kind of um just a really good compliment to Mark and I, who tend to be a little more laid back. And so I think that when she walked out the door, I was like, I think, I think we need her. Well, what do you do you remember what you were thinking, Mark, during that?

Mark Paulson:

Not really. I mean, I remember thinking like this makes sense from our journey from things we've been reading and like how can we grow and get bigger, you know. Like we I think we had gone as far as we could by ourselves as far as growing, you know, like how can you scale this business when you have so many issues that are unresolved, is what I would say. Like, we haven't fixed so many issues. If we grow now, we're just gonna amplify our issues without resolving them. That that was kind of the moment where it just made sense. What Michelle was telling us, like, oh, this is the things we need, and it just made sense to partner with her because speed of implementation is the big thing.

Richard Piet:

So compare then from before you started EOS to now. I'm not asking you for for specifics or numbers, but just compare your goals that you wanted to accomplish with what you've done now, and how is it different?

Mark Paulson:

Now we have a lot more clarity on where we're heading, and we're putting the pieces and structures in place. It does shed light on areas that we need to add pieces, like leadership, for example. But yeah, from where we started, I would say it's more chaotic, and now we're getting more a lot more structure to the business. So I would say it's gone from we weren't complete chaos, but you know, more chaos to more structure, accountability, and everyone rolling in the same direction. We're not there yet, but the goal is to get everyone on board.

Richard Piet:

Michelle, is that common? Talk about what you've observed here compared to what you typically observe in terms of the process and the progress that's involved.

Michele Mollard:

Yeah, definitely the process uh doesn't change actually from one implementer to the next and how we take clients through the journey. Obviously, my facilitation and my style is different than any of the other people, right? Because it's me. And thank goodness in this world there's only one Michelle. Uh, but there's very everyone's very, very different, right? Uh there's only one, thank goodness. But I do think that, and maybe Lindsay can even speak to this too, and Mark alluded to it, but like foundationally, we have to start there first. And so so many times company goes, You're slowing me down. You're slowing me down. And it's intentionally done because we do need to start to lay a better foundation. They had a very good foundation. We're just rolling another layer, we're beefing up some walls, right? So we're gonna have instead of a ranch house, we're gonna add two stories, and now we have to have, you know, instead of a six-inch wall, we have to have a 12-inch wall. If there's any contractors listening to me, I know nothing of what I'm talking about. But you get the idea. I need to have a bigger, beefier foundation in order to put this on. And so that's the first, probably the first year, and these guys are right at that point, nine months of first year, is really that. And then just watch out, right? Statistically, I can't say that word, statistically, companies, if they've been growing about 10% on a regular basis, we get them growing about 15%. So it's a small, small inclination or increase, excuse me, uh, for them in their first year. But then the second year is 30s and 40% growth. And so they're seeing usually double in the second year. And so it's designed intentionally to get the foundation set, right? Right people, right seats, a vision set, leadership on the same page, enough people around that we can uh delegate some of that leadership responsibility to do it. And then it's just putting on the second layer of process and then get out of the way. Like honestly, just get out of the way. The employees take over, uh, not in a malicious way, but just like instead of Mark and Lindsay at the front of the boat rowing and them maybe not necessarily all their employees specifically, but you know, people, employees just sitting in the back, potentially rowing. And then watch out, they're rowing faster than Mark and Lindsay, is what I have experienced that the team is actually pushing the leadership team to drive forward even faster.

Richard Piet:

Are you feeling that, Lindsay?

Lindsey VanDyken:

I was gonna say, hey, we're really fast rowers, so good luck. No, just a couple things. One is that we have amazing employees, people who really care about the work and really care about taking care of the customer. And so we have been excited to see people embracing EOS and even so we have the weekly meetings, the level tens, and um both Mark and I have experience where we're not there and the meeting still takes place and it's being run by an employee, which I think that that really shows engagement and that like we've gotten it to everybody. Um, I also think it highlights and helps us work through the issues that we have faster and in a timely manner, and then with with accountability. We have seen it trickle down, and yes, we are seeing people, the people take over in a sense, um, because the process is so easy to follow. And so I think that as long as you have people engaged, that yes, it's easy to get implemented all the way to every employee.

Mark Paulson:

It's gotta feel pretty good, Mark. Yeah, with the employees, it seems like there's more engagement, more thought, but because we're setting rocks and also sharing the VTO, the vision part of it, we get more buy-in, right? So then people are also human nature is to sort of thinking about, you know, what could we do to be better, or what could we do to hit our goal and that kind of thing. So I th I feel like we're really working a lot more in the business on things to improve, you know. Getting employees to buy in on. And then really bringing them alongside and them doing quite a bit of the work as well as men.

Richard Piet:

Huge. Michelle, this isn't to say that self-implementation doesn't happen. True. It just may take longer.

Michele Mollard:

Yes, it definitely takes longer. I mean, unless they had somebody that was really picking up on it, it definitely takes longer. And I would even say it probably does take longer, just because I mean, I'm I'm working with 15, 20 clients at a time, right? And so I'm seeing all the different things. And so I always have, and these guys have heard this saying a million times, you can't read the label from inside the bottle, right? So if you're inside the bottle, the label's on the outside. And so, how are you uh, you know, like you could even say you can't coach the game by being on the field, right? It's hard because you can't see all the things, you can't really look at it. And so some of that third party, as I told these guys, I don't answer the question, Michelle, what would you do? Like, give us advice. And and I don't think they've ever gotten that. Around EOS, yes. But like, hey, should I hire this person? Should I fire this person? No, that's not it, because I am also not a player in their game. They are the smartest people in the room, and Anya's there to facilitate the discussion around EOS and give them the foundation of how they operate. But they know their employees better, they know the business better, they know their customers better is 100%. It just takes more time. I do have to say that probably a little biased, but with stats that companies that have come to me after implementing even for four years, all their tools are not as buttoned up and not as what we call EOS pure, and not done purely the way it's intentionally done, even after four years, right? And so there's just a part of that that I'm schooled in this all day long. We have calls every Monday. I have meetings that I get together and get my saw sharpened every single quarter. That's next week in Detroit. Right. And so there's always just that piece of it. It's kind of like, as you can see, I live and breathe EOS Orange. Like it's a part of me, it's a part of most of us. And so I think that's probably the biggest difference of why those aren't really fast and perfect when they self-implement. But we love to have them doing it.

Richard Piet:

Lindsay, before we go, yes, someone's listening to this, watching it, and they're on the fence, what advice would you give them about making a decision about EOS in their world?

Lindsey VanDyken:

Yeah, so I would say to look at your goals. And if your goals include growth, that a coach is going to be able to help implement you faster. And then taking a look at some of the statistics that Michelle was outlining about the growth and the timeline. And so I think if you're wanting to do a slow roll in your growth, then self-implement. But if you are looking to grow and quickly in an or wanting structure and even expert advice, Mark and I over and over will say after our meetings with Michelle, like that was the best decision that we did because we needed a third party to help facilitate some of these conversations and even explaining the tools that are available. Just last week we had an issue that came up, and Mark's like, let's get Michelle on the phone just to get like her input and her ideas. So she's gone beyond just implementing EOS. Like, she's someone that we want her feedback on because she helps us work through problems. So I would just say, like, we're so happy with the decision that we made. If we were self-implementing, I'd probably still be reading the book or something right now. And so we're nine months in and we're almost fully implemented. All of our employees are attending meetings, all of our employees have measurables right now. And so I just think I don't know where we would be, but we would not be here for sure. And so I think that that's exciting. And when you're thinking about the dollars, because I think a lot of times that's what it comes down to, is just think about how much you could grow in two years, and it would likely offset any costs that this has. And so I think that's my encouragement.

Richard Piet:

Well, congratulations on the progress that you've made so far, and it'll be interesting to check in with you maybe in a year or something and see how you're doing. Yeah. Really past the point of implementation and how how the rowing has been going. So congratulations to you both.

Michele Mollard:

They are amazing rock stars, that's for sure. They are two great leaders. They always had been great leaders. They just put a little more structure around them and watch them soar. They're both phenomenal leaders.

Richard Piet:

Lindsay Van Dyken and Mark Paulson with us from Budget Blinds here on EOS traction for your workplace goals with Michelle Mollard, certified EOS implementer. We'll be back again before you know it. In the meantime, scroll down or hit the subscribe button, whatever the function is in front of you, to find these episodes and listen in. Thanks for being with us.