(EOS Episode 28) Why Your Team Stops Speaking Up And How To Fix It

Silence in meetings is not calm, it is data, especially when a normally vocal person shuts down overnight. 

In this episode of Traction for Your Workplace Goals, Certified EOS Implementer Michele Mollard breaks down the most common reasons it happens and how we respond as leaders so people feel safe bringing issues, ideas, and hard truths.

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EOS-Traction for Your Workplace Goals is a Livemic Communications production.

Transcript

Welcome And The Silence Problem

Richard Piet 0:01

I'm Richard Piet. Welcome to EOS. Traction for your workplace goals. Michele Mollard is a certified EOS implementer, giving us plenty to think about as it relates to our workplace goals and the traction that we have for them. Is it quiet around your office in your business? And you're wondering why? Or maybe a few people who have been usually participating in discussions and input suddenly are not. We're talking about that today. Why is there sudden silence? Hello, Michele. Hello, Richard. This is an interesting one. And you know, when I saw this was our subject, it rang a couple of bells, maybe even for myself. If you're in an environment in which, for I suppose, any number of reasons there feels to be a disconnect, we might decide to shut down, right?

Michele Mollard 1:06

Yeah, for sure, Richard. And so thank you for uh conducting this today. It's uh probably one of my favorite topics and most talked about, right? So I always have leaders come up to me and say, Hey, Becky, for sake of a word, a name, uh, was really engaged and really talkative and is all of a sudden silent. What should I do? And then I'm like, well, you better do something and do something quick. Um, and so if you're you had said there's two scenarios, which we'll get through, but both of them, but if there is somebody that I would say is contributing, even a squeaky wheel, even somebody that might be bringing up issues often, all of a sudden goes quiet, I would 100% engage in them. And so uh sharing kind of the the punchline before this is all done, and meaning that if there are people that are not that were engaged with you and talking and bringing issues and are not, this is for you, but listen to this 15 minutes and then get on the phone call and 20 minutes from right now uh with them because there's a there's something else going on.

Five Reasons People Shut Down

Richard Piet 2:09

I also observed something you just illustrated. I was thinking about, you know, over a a period of time they might get quieter. You're saying it might happen just like this in an instant. Just like that.

Michele Mollard 2:23

Yeah, because something could have happened in the meeting before, like me, you, and Becky in a meeting, something could have happened that shut them down, right? And so I'm gonna list uh five things that are reasons why things could shut them down. And so I'll list them. And then you guys, as you're listening to this, take some notes and I'll go back and explain them. So trust is one of them. So there's an absence or something that happened that broke the trust. There's a comparison, and that doesn't always intellectually get there, but I will explain that. Um, that they might be thinking, my issue is not as big as theirs, so I'm gonna be quiet. Then there's a fear, a fear of conflict, a fear of being wrong, of look potentially looking weak, right? So there's some people that might be in the room that are a whole leadership team, and uh, oh, I'm not gonna say that. That might not be right. Um, a fear of acceptance, meaning we have done it this way always, and they're just accepting the way it is, as opposed to entering in the danger and entering in a conflict that might be able to go after that, and then guilt. And things are going pretty well, and then they just won't bring up the issue. So those are the five things that I just wanted to touch about, and we can touch on them more, but just to give an overarching umbrella of what I have experienced, why teams are individuals on teams are not speaking up.

Trust Breaks And Meeting Fallout

Richard Piet 3:42

All right, and we're ready to talk about them individually now, right? So boy, trust. That that one is a strong punch right off the top here. Somewhere there's a lack of it, someone lost it. Is that what you mean?

Michele Mollard 3:59

All the things, yeah. And that's why I listed first, uh, because it's the most common one, unfortunately. Oh. Um, and so uh sometimes in the world of EOS, we have these things called level 10s, right? And so it's a meeting called a level 10 that happens every single week. And so I have had teams where they're saying, My level 10s, nobody brings any issues, Michele. We're doing just fine. And I'm like, I'll challenge that all day long. They're brand new to these level 10s. And so what else? And so I always challenge my leaders to say, do they trust you? Here's what I mean by it. Meaning, have you had other meetings that they have been ripped apart in, that they none of their ideas have been implemented or even followed up on? And so what I mean by that is if they bring you an idea and it's no, that's okay. And saying, Yes, I love the idea. Here's the constraints that we'll do it, budgets, whatever, right? And so if you keep telling people no and no explanation or not even following up with them and giving any feedback, you are knocking away that fear every single time and or that fear, that trust every single time that's coming to them. And so we sometimes have to look back at what we've done relationship-wise to realize that they're just not comfortable uh bringing that level of conversation because maybe what we did, or even how I say how they were raised in their career, meaning that if they're a new employee, that may not be this open, honest uh being able to give feedback and uh want to have that. That's the culture of most EOS uh run companies, actually, all EOS run companies. And so they're not used to it, right? So there's a whole history of kind of their, you know, PTSD, if you will, uh, around meetings, right? Because they've been horrible.

Richard Piet 5:47

Wow. So much of this, well, maybe it isn't, but it to me it seems that so much of this is psychology and how we talk to people, and and uh it seems to make the difference here. Do we learn that in EOS as managers?

Comparison And The Unasked Question

Michele Mollard 6:06

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, because we always talk about being open and honest, right? And so the the more that we can uh have our people understand that that is genuinely, we have to be genuine, right? What I want, meaning that I want everything good, bad, ugly, hairy, whatever it is, I want it to come out from my teams. And so, as leaders of the organization, whether you're running on EOS or not, I implore you to dig into them and say, give me it all. But you have to be open to hear it, you have to be honest to receive it, you have to be open to the ideas, to feedback, and then have a have a um a get back loop, have a uh kind of how am I gonna communicate with them? Because watch out when this, when this trust does become there, they're gonna bring everything under the sun. They're like, what about this? What about this? Which goes into like compare um fear and comparison and the other ones, in that, like they're not saying, well, their idea is better. They're gonna say, I got a good idea too, right? Which is the whole comparison thing. And so they compare themselves to others and saying, oh, well, they're the leader, they'll come up with all the ideas. Again, in EOS, that is not the way it is. We want every person in our company in a level 10. So all the ideas come from the bottom all the way up to the top, because those that use the broom should buy the broom, figure of speech. But those that are in the weed on the factory floor, um, doing the work in home health care, uh installing the blinds, whatever those things are that they're doing, they're the one that's doing it the most. As leaders, the beauty of this is that, again, US companies, we're not in the weeds, right? We're sitting at the leadership team level. They are, and so they're having idea issues with their tools, with installation, a certain product. Um, you know, like I had a team that uh does blinds and they really don't like this motorized uh product. And they said that to the team and they listened and they said, well, then why are we selling it? And they're like, it's hard, it's it's warranty, it's blah, blah, blah. I don't know the name of it and wouldn't tell it anyway. But so it's just the same of the, you know, kind of the thing. And so this is the same thing. If they're not bringing all this stuff, there could be fear, there could be comparison, there could be um trust issues that are not coming through.

Richard Piet 8:20

Yeah, boy. Uh, this is incredible. These uh these things, which again, I keep coming back to the way these situations make a person feel, and now they may become immobilized in the uh communication department, the contributing. This is a huge, huge thing. Did we cover comparison all the way through?

Michele Mollard 8:42

Yeah, and I think it I think it's the one thing I wanted to share with comparison is that they also may not understand that their frustration is somebody else's frustration. So again, it all is rooted in trust. But, you know, like, you know, you've been in conversations and people that are listening have been in conversations where like, I think this is a stupid question, or they and it's not. I've been on the other end where there's like, I had that same question, I had that same question, right? So there's no stupid question and there's no stupid issue, and there's nothing stupid to bring to the room. And so, as leaders, as we're listening to this, is if this is how you're making your people feel, then don't expect them to bring anything. You're getting what you're giving to them, right? And you're not giving this open feedback system. And so they'll have this thing and saying, Hey, I'm, you know, frustrated with this, but I'm not gonna speak up, right? And so all of a sudden they just clam up and they're not gonna bring it.

Fear Of Being Wrong Or Fired

Richard Piet 9:28

All right. What's the next thing that might stop such a thing?

Michele Mollard 9:32

Yeah, I think it a little bit, um, Patrick Lancioni talks about trust at the bottom of this pyramid, uh, but it's vulnerability-based trust. So again, this is rooted in this fear, right? And so if I speak up and tell the owner, tell the leader that something's not working, I may get fired, right? The fear is that visceral in people's bodies sometimes because again, how they were raised in their career, they may have experienced that already. And so, in teams, and if you're trying to develop them, the teams to bring ideas is asking the question and saying, Hey, you know, maybe you can sense a body language. I do it a little bit in my session, be like, hey, I feel like you have to say something. Um, please know that this is an open environment and I would love to get that from you. And then sometimes it's a side conversation, they won't have it and in the group, and then you have the conversation, and then you're just working on developing and developing and developing them. Um, so sometimes it is like that, like right, that fear is uh being wrong. And and uh in EOS world, um take a shot. There's there's I mean, if it's a hospital, if you are listening to this in this hospital, uh, I respectfully, right? You people do die if you do make a wrong decision. But hey, if you make the wrong decision to install this thing, this blind this way, you just have to redo it. You might have to pay for somebody's, you know, drywall fix or a window fix. But you know, in everything that I do, mostly what I do is is not the one's gonna die from it. Let's just take a shot. Let's not have this fear-based world to be able to do it.

Richard Piet 10:54

So yeah. And uh this I think also underscores the role of the implementer, that is to say, an independent person who's now come in, recognized what that culture might be, and that some of these things might have provoked silence. And as an independent body, you can begin to break some of that down.

Acceptance Of The Status Quo

Michele Mollard 11:19

Yeah, for sure. And I don't, I don't often see it all because I'm not in every day one of their meetings, but I do engage them in saying, how engaging is your level tens? And the reason for a level 10 is that most effective, most teams that start with me, their effectiveness of their meetings are around a four. And we're just trying to ratchet that up to a level 10. That's where it comes from. Um, and so when their ratings are sevens, sixes, I ask, what would make it a 10? Sometimes you don't get it. And so I coach this team, this leadership team, in order to be able to have effective meetings. And so when they say to me, no one's bringing any issues, the leadership team is always lively. It's usually the one level next, right? So the sales team, right? The sales leader is meeting with the sales team, and there's a few people that speak up, but not everybody. And so as you're listening to this, and there's a few, even not the whole team, that are engaged with them offline and being like, hey, I really want your opinion. I really value you. I mean, clearly, again, from sincerity, um, there's a whole lot of episodes that talk about right people, right seats that we've already talked about. If they're not that, then just let's let's be real with what it is. Um, but if it is, and all of a sudden they've gone quiet or they're just not, uh, it might be that. And and so, you know, Richard, going on to that, it kind of segues into the concept of, well, we've always done it this way. Yes. And so I'm not gonna bring up the idea. And that's that whole acceptance uh piece of it. And so if you're tolerating that, you're you as a leader, you may not know that's happening. And if we're we're communicating that, then that's on us. Uh, but if we're not, they're tolerating this kind of status quo. And meaning that, like, let's try to make a better mousetrap, right? Figure of speech. But if we kind of engage that with them and say, hey, I want your ideas, because Richard, between you, me, and Becky, we can put a better mousetrap together. Me by myself, I think I have a good mousetrap. But then we ideate and, you know, kind of, oh, that's a good idea. What about this? What about this? So yes and, right? This mentality of yes and, yes, and not no buts. Get that out of your uh out of your vocabulary completely. There is no more no butts in leadership, right? No, but what no, it's just the answer is no, right? And that's what they're gonna feed off of it. So yes and is a better response um to that. And so what's next? So yes, that's not, you know, we can't do that, but let's do this, right? So how do we do that? Just put the butt in there, but you get the point.

Richard Piet 13:43

Yeah, yeah. I'm reminded of a scenario I found myself in not all that long ago, in which I think this is the point where this person was, where they would say, just tell me what you want me to do, and I'll do it. Or if they really felt snarky, they might say, uh, this is never gonna change. So uh I've got nothing.

Guilt And Complacency In Good Times

Michele Mollard 14:11

There's the acceptance, right? This is never gonna change. So why should I bring it up? Right. Because again, historically, they might have been environments where they've ex spoke their peace and no one's done anything and no one's given them feedback of why it can't. Right. Um and so challenging the leaders that are listening to this to say, like, if they can't, if you can't, it's like, yes, it's a great idea, and let's do it in 2027, let's budget it. Because I can't spend six hundred thousand dollars without it already allocated. We just don't have the budget, and and explaining that, right? And so so many teams are like, well, I can't show them the budget. Why you can't show them the budget, I don't know, right? Like, just this is yes and, right? And so how do we all feed that off of there? Um that kind of segues into the last uh piece of that and that guilt piece, right? And really getting into this um the mindset that I love to challenge leaders with is I, I'll even say Michele, have gaps in my thinking, right? And so my gap in the way that I think and the way that I process might be very different. Actually, I think it is very different than the way you think and process, Richard, uh, which would be very different than anybody else that's on the leadership team. And so what got us here, right, is not gonna also get us there. And so we have to have this new way of thinking, this new way of an idea of, well, it's running pretty well. No, right? That that I'll I'll say this, I'll go out on the lender. That believe breeds complacency, right? Yeah, yeah. And so if we're a growing organization and we really, really, really do want to grow, we need to have people in here that are saying, yes, what else? What else can I do? Challenging that, right? And so they're not um having that hesitation to raise issues because of, again, you you can go all the way back to trust, right? It kind of goes all the way through these things, but that guilt, uh, recognize that that is a real thing and a real emotion, that your people that aren't saying anything or that all of a sudden are not saying anything is something that we've done or something that they've done previously that makes them feel this guilt of well, I just won't bring the issue because it's pretty good. It's okay. We want great.

Richard Piet 16:23

Yeah, this is uh pretty wild. If you think about these five things trust, comparison, fear, acceptance, guilt. Boy, trust and guilt kind of sock me in the gut a little bit listening to those. But the point is the EOS process is meant to address these things head on.

Michele Mollard 16:45

Head on. Head on, absolutely. And every way that we do it, everything that we do, meaning that uh as people go through this journey, it's full transparency. It's transparency in total revenue, it's transparency into uh profit. And so this really goes along those ways. So if you go even from the bottom up, right, guilt acceptance that way, you almost can't have it, right? I mean, you can't, you those things, those five things can't be true if you are running with an open, you know, trust-based, open and honest, vulnerable, right, organization. And and people always misunderstand this vulnerability. I don't want you to be best friends with any of them, right? I mean, that that we we can't do buddies and bosses, right? This is you, you're their boss, right, as you're going through here. But I can have a great relationship, a great boss, um, employer, or whatever you want to use. We use the word boss, um, uh relationship and have open, honest, trust, you know, even to I even dare to say love, not love in that sense, but just like I love working with people that I work with. I love doing what I do. Um, and so sometimes it gets a little bit uh take a little bit far, but it's it's truly in our hearts to do better. Um, and how do we have more effective meetings and how do we get more people to participate? Is if they're bought into the system and if they don't have these five things, that's how we drive it.

Richard Piet 18:09

Well, I spoke in jest in the beginning here, talking about is it silent where you are? But in all seriousness, uh we see the seriousness of the silence now, and we see some of the reasons why that might be those five things that Michele has pointed out. If that sounds familiar to you, or you're at least concerned about the effectiveness of your meetings, let's just say that to begin with. Well, maybe it's worth reaching out to Michele Mollard, certified EOS implementer, and ask a few questions and maybe explore the idea of EOS traction in your workplace. Subscribe to these episodes. All you have to do is go to your favorite podcast directory and type traction for your workplace goals. You'll see Michele's smiling face there. Click on subscribe and you'll be alerted when these episodes come available. Michele, we'll be back, will we not?

Michele Mollard 19:07

We will. Thank you, Richard.

Richard Piet 19:09

See you soon. See you soon.