(Ep. 5) How Does Writing Shape the Way We Speak? A Dialogue With Coach & Speaker Dr. Sheetal Ajmani

In this episode, I’m joined by Dr. Sheetal Ajmani for a conversation about the connection between writing, speaking, coaching, and sharing. 

Dr. Sheetal is the founder of Radiant Living Institute, where she helps executive leaders communicate with greater clarity, confidence, and alignment across their personal and professional lives. 

We talk about journaling as a tool for self-awareness, the role writing can play in helping us process difficult experiences, and how reconnecting with our inner voice can influence the way we coach, speak, teach, and show up in the world. 

This conversation explores the crossover between storytelling and leadership, the role self-awareness plays in communication, and why finding your voice is often less about performance and more about connection. 

If you’re curious how personal experience can evolve into meaningful work and service… 

If you’re building work centered around communication, coaching, or creativity...

Or if you’re learning how to trust your voice in public spaces… 

I think this conversation will stay with you.

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Connect with Dr. Sheetal:

• Website: https://www.radiantlivinginstitute.com/

Connect with Janaye (host of The Write Channel):

• contact@itsthenextpage.com 
• itsthenextpage.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Right Channel. I am your host, Janae Jordan, and I am here with Dr. Sheetol Ajmani, and I'm so excited. This is episode five of this podcast. And Dr. Sheetol, you are one of the people that I thought about when I was brainstorming this. And just for our listeners, I want to share how you and I know each other, give you a brief introduction, and then we will dive into channeling and writing. So we are in the podcast room at Assembly in downtown Norfolk, which is in Virginia. And I first found out about Assembly because I stumbled across their website and I saw that you, Dr. Sheetle, were leading a woman's, a female founders collective, which was like a women's group coaching. And I came to that coaching session, and I was surrounded by a group of women, female founders like myself, who were all in the process of building something. And you like co-facilitated that session, and I walked away feeling so inspired after kind of being like holed up at home as a freelancer and doing my own thing and not being so connected to people. And I was really inspired by the space, by the atmosphere you created, and meeting these other female founders. And so I left thinking like I need to stay engaged in this community. I ended up getting an assembly membership, and so that's where you know we co-worked together. This is where I'm recording the podcast from. And so early on, and this was about a year ago now, maybe over a year, you became an expander for me. And I use that term expander. I didn't make up that term. Um I heard it through another podcast, but just somebody that sh that demonstrated for me what leading a business could look like, and doing it among and with other people and sharing with other people. And so I really appreciate you starting that group and doing the work that you're doing and us connecting and having lunch and you sharing insight about your coaching business and all the things that you are building. So thank you for joining me today.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Thank you so much, Janae. Oh my goodness, I am so like honored and humbled through just hearing you share your experiences of um coming across the Female Founders Collective. Um kudos to you. I want to commend you also because I remember uh I remember you texting me the day before the first meeting that you joined and just saying, hey, I came across this. Is it okay if I join you tomorrow morning? And you know, that step in and of itself takes a lot of courage. And so I want to just commend you also for opening yourself up to that and and also for sharing the impact that that it has had, you know, um as a business owner and and you know, having my own coaching and speaking and consulting business, I s and having done this for a few years now, it's I think at any time in the business journey and a founder journey, there's just so many ups and downs. And it can be hard to know the, you know, obviously you know the impact with kind of your one-on-one clients and um with at least some in your audiences when you're speaking, but to know, and you can never really know the full impact that you have. Um, but it's um, you know, it's it's that's what what it's all about. So thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Yeah, of course. And we're gonna talk about feedback a little bit later. Um, but I'm I'm really excited to talk to you because I know that you are, so you're a coach first and foremost, and you have an interesting journey of how you have arrived to being a coach. You're a content creator, and that's something that you have to do is part of your business. So I know that writing is an integral part of your business, and you're working on a book, which we'll talk about. But I'm excited to talk to you because when we had lunch not too long ago, and I was sharing with you this podcast idea and how I was talking to writers about the channeling process. One of the things that you said that stood out was, wow, I I feel like I do that when I'm speaking and when I'm coaching. And that just made me so excited because I do believe that channeling is something that we can do across multiple mediums, writing included, but also when we're sharing and speaking with other people. And I know, as I shared with you, I've worked with a lot of authors who um sort of grimace or or sh, you know, feel nervous about the idea of sharing their ideas, sharing their works in front of other people, speaking to other people, engaging other people. So I want to talk to you about that, about what channeling is like for you as a writer, but also as a speaker. So we'll get into that. That's just kind of like a broad overview of what we'll be talking about. But one thing I like to do with everyone who joins me here at The Write Channel is to hear more about their personal writing journey. And so I want to ask you to take me through your journey as a writer. Um, do you have an early memory or an earliest memory of writing?

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Yeah, I love this question. Um uh so I mean, when I think about writing and my writing journey, I think back to uh elementary school. And honestly, I don't have a great memory of all the specific moments there, but I have I still have a box of some of my work from elementary school that just really stood out to me and that I wanted to save. I've been after all of these years. And so, you know, every once in a while I'll look through that and I see like these little storybooks that we wrote as assignments, or, you know, write this assignment as a newspaper article. And I would just bring so much creativity to that. And that just, again, I don't remember creating it, but I have those pieces of my work, and I can see the creativity that went into that, not only in the writing itself, but also adding visual elements to it. And so it's interesting. That's the first thing I think of. And then the second thing I think of, which I do have concrete memories of, is in high school in my family, it was very important that during summer breaks uh that we were still engaged in something educational and intellectual. And so there was this one summer in high school, and my parents were like, just pick something. We don't even care what it is, as long as it's educational and keeps you engaged. Pick something. And I somehow I came across a summer writing camp. Um, it was an away camp. It was at Duke University, and it was a summer away camp. And this was at a time when this sort of information wasn't as easy to like search online on the internet. So I'm not sure how I came across it. But I did that and it was a creative writing camp, and I wrote, I had so much fun. I I mean, I have memories of going to their garden. Duke University has a beautiful botanical gardens. And I remember just they took us out to the gardens and they said, just find a spot wherever you want to go sit and write. And I just remember finding this spot under a tree and writing poems, and I still have so many of those pieces of work in a binder at home.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

That is beautiful. First of all, shout out to your parents for keeping those early writings, or for you for keeping them and compiling them. I just finished editing a manuscript, or in the middle of editing a manuscript, where the author was sharing in a similar early memory, and she said, I would give anything to still have that essay, that first essay my teacher assigned. And she's like, I can remember the handwriting, I can remember how it looks, I just don't have it. I think it's something special to physically have the material. It's a gift that I think a parent can give to their children to keep those, those records, the artwork, the stories, and then, you know, maybe give them to their child later to remind them. And same with the experience at Duke University. And I'm curious to know now when you go back and look through those, what feelings come up for you? How does it feel to go back and look through those, those early writings?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

It feels I feel warm thinking about it. Uh, there are warm memories. And what comes to me is that this is something that's been part of me all along, along with the speaking and and the coaching, which obviously at that time I didn't know what coaching was, and it wasn't as common of a um sort of title or field as it is now. But education, education, teaching, speaking, writing, all of those, when I look back, they were there since elementary school. I mean, I know we're gonna talk a little bit about the speaking as well, but I also have a VHS tape. I have no idea how I'm gonna watch this ever again, but I have this VHS recording of me interviewing someone in sixth grade for like the elementary school TV channel. And so, and you know, there were uh cultural holiday functions growing up when I was in elementary school, and a lot of young girls, uh, young Indian girls would perform dances in these cultural um events and celebrations. And I did some of that, but there were some years where I wrote a speech describing the significance of the holiday, and that was in elementary school. Wow. So when I look back at the writing, the speaking, the teaching, the education piece, all of those, when I look back, were there from when I was very young. And it's it's truly, truly a blessing now in my work to be able to fully embody and embrace that.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

I love that. And so, Dr. Sheelo, you spent nearly two decades in clinical medicine. You're a medical doctor, and you know you can share as much or as little as you want about that journey and how you found yourself now as a coach. But I'm curious to know if you engaged in any writing practices during that time and what that looked like for you.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Absolutely, journaling. The big one was journaling in terms of my writing practice while I was in medicine, while I was in training, while I was practicing. Medicine for me, while um fulfilling and rewarding in so many ways, and just knowing uh how many patients and children and families I touched. I worked as a pediatrician. It was also emotionally, physically, mentally taxing and draining, and it really took a toll on me. And I experienced burnout through my career in medicine multiple times. And writing, journaling specifically, was a way for me to release and express so many of the ups and downs. Let's face it, mostly I turned to journaling when I was feeling down and frustrated and sad and overwhelmed and all of that. But really, what um, and this relates very much to this channeling that we're talking about, is with my journaling practice, it was a way also for me to find clarity and to hear my inner voice, my deep down inner voice, and to tap into, you know, these days many people are um familiar, at least with the word meditation, if not the practice of it. At that time, early on in my medical career, I didn't know much about meditation, but I journaled, and I would say that that was a way of um also starting to hear my inner voice, my highest self. And it wouldn't start that way, and that wasn't the intention when I would start writing. It would be I'm overflowing with emotion and I need to put this out somewhere, and another place that I would output that was through running and through going to the gym. Um, but writing was another place, and so I would start with just free-flow writing, everything that I was feeling. And in my writing, I would often get to points, and I still do this, points where I would be asking myself questions. And then by the end, I would be writing answers to those questions and answers that came from a place that is different from the place that I started. Wow. And uh, so that was a really powerful experience. And that was um kind of most of my writing during um while I was practicing medicine, but also I was interested in the work that I'm doing now with speaking, coaching, consulting, um, focused around self-care, well-being for women while I was practicing medicine. So in 2014, actually, I started a blog. I created a website and I started a blog. And I started writing blogs to publish on my website, and they were about uh yoga. So I'm also a certified yoga instructor and Ayurveda lifestyle consultant. So they were about primarily about yoga, yoga practice, the physical practice, but also yoga philosophy and applying some of those principles to our daily life. And I wrote one blog a month to start out. Uh, it felt very vulnerable. It felt very scary. I would reach read each blog over and over and over again before I actually hit publish. The first few, I definitely had my family read it for me as well before I hit publish. Um but then so it it ended up evolving into that part as well.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Oh, that's amaz that's fascinating. And so, okay, so I'm hearing that journaling for you was a way to process what I would imagine are the heaviest, probably most fearful feelings that your patients are bringing to your room, right? Like I can imagine very anxious parents, confused children. Um, my sister, who's a pediatrician, I was telling you, I I hear some of the stories that she that she engages with and experiences, and I can't even imagine what it's like to witness, just to bear witness to that. And so your journal for you sounds like a place where you got to kind of dump that out, process it. Uh I love that you shared that you would ask yourself questions and then receive answers that seem to have come from a different place. So tell me more about that. I have I've experienced something similar when I started to channel poetry. And for me, those answers came in a very clear, almost like direct download. That's like I I could write something pretty quickly, kind of forget that I wrote it, and then maybe revisit it a week later and read it and say, oh my gosh, wow. This is this was not me. And so I'm curious if that was your experience when you're answering those questions. And who do you or what source do you feel like you were tapping into?

SPEAKER_01 16:06

That's absolutely similar experience to what I had. And you know, it's it wasn't me writing, it didn't feel like it was me, like my conscious mind writing down those answers to those questions. It did feel like it was coming through me. And when I would review some of those, like go back and read them, it's like, oh wow, that's so wise. And I know that's not from like me, the like my conscious mind she thought. It's like it's this other part of me. And um, I do have um strong faith and and spirituality, um, sense of spirituality in my life. And so I do believe that comes from a higher power. I believe that there's a higher power that exists within all of us. I don't believe it's something that is separate from us, but that it exists within all of us, and that that um that is also gives rise to our inner voice. And so I feel like that's what was coming through me.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Amazing. And so when you were facing or thinking about the decision to step away from from medicine and fully into your coaching consulting business, did you turn to your journal at that point too? And did that offer some sort of like confirmation or answer as you were thinking through that decision?

SPEAKER_01 17:23

So that was a very long, it felt like in hindsight, a very long journey because I experienced my first bout of burnout in medicine, my first year of practicing, my first year out of medical school. And so while I I journaled a lot, and I and as I mentioned, I also became a certified yoga instructor, Ayurveda Lifestyle Consultant. And so I always knew that I wanted that piece of healing and well-being and self-care somewhere in my work. And I just didn't know how or what that could look like. So I journaled from like my first year of practicing medicine until you know the year that I left medicine frequently about how can I bring all of these different pieces together in my work? Um, how can I align and and spend more of um, you know, bring more of this into my practice? How, if at all, or when should I leave my medical practice and turn fully to this? And what would that look like? And so, yes, that very much was part of it through the ups and downs. And it was a, it was a struggle. It was a push and pull. And I write a little bit about this in my book, and the book that I'm writing is kind of that difference between our um ego self and our inner voice, and how you can have this constant push and pull and tug between those. So just to clarify, uh, you know, kind of when you ask yourself, what am I thinking about right now? The part of you that answers that question is your inner voice. The part of you that's thinking about the thing that you were thinking about is your ego self. So, sort of, so to kind of bring this to my story, like that ego self feels like, well, I worked so hard to be in medicine, I should stay, I should work a certain number of years, um, I'll lose all credibility if I leave. There's a certain um, you know, professional identity that I need to maintain, et cetera, on and on and on. What will people think of me? Um, what will my family think? What will um my community think? What will other physicians think? On and on and on. And so I was working through so much of that through my journaling. And it came step by step. So I mentioned in 2014 I started writing a blog. I also started teaching yoga workshops out of my parents' basement. And um while I was practicing medicine, and in 2015, I decided to go part-time in medicine to really give myself an opportunity to explore what could a business look like? What could starting a business look like for me? And I really didn't have a clear game plan. Uh, but that was, and that felt like a very, very big step for me. And still processing through a lot of those questions and self-doubt that came up, even making that big step. But that was the first really big step to like moving forward in that direction of starting my business. And then it wasn't until the end of 2022 that I actually formally stepped down from clinical practice. And your question was go back to your question of like, did the journaling, was that a part of it? So I was journaling throughout, but to be completely honest with you, I reached a level of feeling so completely burned out. Um, definitely had a level of um trauma trauma that I experienced in my body simply going into the clinic after having worked through um in an urgent care setting through the pandemic and just escalating situations led to that that I really felt like I had no choice at that point but to step away. And to speak to that, I will say that I believe in life there life is constantly sending us like signals to move in a certain direction. And I think that those episodes of repeated burnout, while I wasn't ready to leave to make that decision, all of that was important to for me to process and to get to this point where I realized when I when I left, when I felt like I had no other choice. And sometimes that's what happens, when you're not able to make that choice for yourself earlier on, life will continue to present you with these situations that may almost seem like it's you're almost like left with no, feel like you're left with no other choice. It's also felt very scary to leave a secure position, financially secure position, and step into the unknown. And so I was turning. About, like, all these different options, all these different scenarios that I could explore with that. And one thing that I came to realize was that I could switch to another pediatric practice, but I realized that every two to three years in my career I switched pediatric practices because I would get burned out. And so I was like, well, I can do that and just repeat the same cycle, or I can choose differently this time. And so I had already started my business and I uh ultimately decided to continue to lean into that and started writing my book actually that very next year.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

The very next year. Wow. Okay, so you said a few things that we don't really have time to fully unpack, but I just want to to highlight. One, the difference between your inner voice and your ego. Did you say ego or critic? Yes, ego. Which can often sound like a critic. Yes. Exactly. It's so interesting how those conversations, when you talk about having the conversation in your journal, like that to me is often what is playing out when you're journaling, that conversation between your inner voice and your ego. And I'm so curious to know how that conversation has shifted and changed from when you were feeling burnt out in clinical practice to now being a full-time coach. Like if we could peek into your journals, I'm sure, like now versus then, how much the conversation has changed, which is to me, one of the benefits of journaling is you can go back and kind of look at that evidence and kind of remind yourself of all of these phases and seasons that you've gone through. Don't really have to unpack that. Just wanted to like highlight it. Another thing that you said, or that I was thinking as you were speaking, is that isn't it amazing how even in our seasons of burnout, how I would imagine, I don't want to speak for you, but I would imagine that that provided you with the level of firsthand experience and empathy for the clients who you are coaching now, who are executive leaders, like women and men in leadership who I imagine experience burnout. So for you to say, like, I've been there, I know what that feels like physically. Here's a path forward, here's a guide. Would you say that that is something positive that you can take from that experience?

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Oh, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. Um, definitely my experiences with challenges and hardships through burnout, and didn't even talk about like relationships because I've definitely journaled a lot through navigating personal relationships and intimate relationships and unhealthy dynamics and all of that. Um, and and similarly kind of tapping into my inner voice there as well. But all of those experiences, life experiences, have really led to the evolution and the formation of what my business looks like now in terms of the clients I serve, the um the challenge, life challenges that I help them navigate, the topics that I speak on in my speaking engagements, all of this definitely has led to that formation and the evolution of that. And and it does um that is the you could say sort of silver lining in all of that. And and that's where I say that it all served a purpose. It all served a purpose, and I don't have um, I wouldn't change any of it, no matter how difficult and challenging it was through the process. It was all necessary and it all was part of the process. Um, you know, something that's interesting, Janae. I agree with you wholeheartedly that one thing about journaling is that we can go back and like review and and read and kind of see where we were at at a certain point in time. And, you know, a clear example I think of with that, yes, in my career, but also in terms of relationships. When I was navigating some um unhealthy relationship dynamics, I was able to look back into my journal and say, oh wow, I noticed this three months into dating, six months into dating, oh wow. And it, but you know, I stayed in it for much longer. But it was so interesting to look back and see that, oh, there was a part of me, not fully, but there was a part of me that was able to see some of these things or that knew what was best for me before I consciously was aware of what was best for me, which is so interesting and so um just insightful for me. But another interesting point, Janae, is that I am now going through a process of throwing out all of my journals. And my journaling these days looks like writing on loose leaf paper and shredding it right afterwards. So I've now come to a place where, and I don't know if I'll do this forever, um, but at least for the past about a year I've been doing this now. I've just come to this place of wanting to not revisit all of that and feel like this is just things that I needed to process. I needed to get out of me, but I don't need to hold on to them any longer. I don't need to um to keep it. And so now I write on loose leaf of paper and I shred it.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

That is fascinating. You are the first person that I have heard do that, but I can immediately see the benefit of doing that. I think one, it probably helps you to stay in the present and maybe not cling, not that you would do this, but anybody that's maybe journaling and revisiting things, you know, sometimes the revisiting can reinforce old ideas, old patterns, an old I person, you know, or a version of yourself. And it reminds me of the practice of like the drawing in the sand and then resetting it, right? Or these other and I wish I knew the term for it, but even like a m- uh mandala.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Yes, yes. I think that there are something really impactful about those practices that many more of us can probably revisit and practice. That's so interesting. Um, I want to continue the conversation to talk about the work that you're doing now, but specifically how writing supports your work. So I guess maybe in some broad strokes, could you explain how writing in general supports your business in terms of like what things, pieces of content, workshops, or keynotes are you having to write to prepare? And what is your writing practice now? Is it something that you set aside time for each day or each week, or do you write as you're inspired? And I guess this would be kind of separate from the book, because the book is something you're working on. That's a its own project.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Yeah, I would say my writing these days is primarily the journaling, working on my book, which I know we'll get into that a little bit more, um, perhaps a little bit later. And then writing for business, which is very different than any of the other types of writing. So I didn't realize this. I know you've you you're in marketing, so so you're very familiar with this, but there's this whole type of writing called copywriting, which I had no idea until I started my business. And um, and that is all of the type of writing that you put on your website or in newsletters or um podcast captions or social media posts. And so that's a good part of it now in terms of sort of supporting the work and the business, um, as well as, you know, you had asked about like drafting up um keynotes and workshops. And my process for that is really, it it goes back to the channeling piece, actually, where my process for that is sitting at my laptop and visualizing myself delivering the workshop and actually like mouthing the words and then writing it down. And when I first started delivering workshops, I would write it down, write things down like word for word, how I would say it, just visualizing myself saying it and script it out. And I would I would write it all out. And then when I actually delivered the presentation, I wouldn't read off the script, but having sort of practiced that and written it down from that flow of thought, of imagining myself in that space. And okay, what would I say next and how would this come out? And just letting it come through me and then just jotting it down helped me with that process. Now that I've been doing this for a few years, and I've had, I have so many keynotes and workshops under my belt that I've done, I don't need to go through exactly that same process of writing everything down. Now I'll still kind of speak it out and just I can jot down some bullet points to outline to make see to like uh know the key points that I want to cover and the key takeaways that I want the audience to get. But it very much is similar, it very much is that channeling process.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Okay, so question when the keynotes that you've worked on in the past, were these keynotes that you had the idea, I would like to talk about this or present this topic? Or were did um like a business or person come to you and say, hey, we would like you to talk about X, Y, and Z?

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Both. Honestly, it started with myself because it started with me creating the opportunities for myself. So me planning and promoting and hosting my own workshops. And so it started there and then it evolved to once I had themes that I found topics that I realized were which, you know, I just kind of looked at all the workshops that I did and looked at what are the themes, what are the topics that resonated the most. Um, and then started offering those specifically as like highlighting those specifically as my keynotes. Um, that when an organization um comes to me and is interested in having me deliver a keynote, I kind of I have this sort of set list of like these are the most popular topics, and then I customize it to their audience specifically and to their needs. So that's been sort of the process there. But it started with me creating the opportunities for myself. What was your first keynote? My first keynote, um, I believe it was the um sustaining professional well-being. Um and that was to a group of pediatricians.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

And so you say you sit you would sit at your laptop and imagine yourself speaking to the group. And the words you're saying would essentially come to you and you would uh document them as they were coming.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

And so obviously I had an idea of the topic, the theme, of some key points. Uh, and obviously this in terms of channeling like for content and for speaking, it it does come also from it's I think of kind of this that quote of like where opportunity meets preparation. So it does come from all of the reading I do to stay up to date on in my field. It comes from my personal experience, life experiences. It comes from examples from client work. So it is this uh, it doesn't just kind of come out of nowhere. Right. It's but it's like it takes all of that information, all of these different pieces, and kind of pulls it together. And what's really neat and exciting and interesting for me and my work is having that background in Western science and medicine and science and psychology and neuroscience, and that background in Eastern philosophy and eastern wisdom, Yoga Ayurveda. And so when I sit down to do this, my brain just makes all these connections between those two worlds. And so it's always a lot of fun for me to tie these together. And it took me a while to get to this place of being able to speak of these um sort of ancient Eastern practices in a way that combines the science, so that like my current clients, as you mentioned, many of them are leaders, executives, um, in a way that they can it resonates um in a way that it feels very practical, very approachable, not something sort of out of out of left field, which is sort of the stigma that some of these practices have carried for many years in the Western world.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

And it's such important wisdom that has to be bridged. I admire coaches like you who can do it and can present that wisdom, I think, to newer audiences or audiences that aren't as familiar. And um it's like um I call it like the word remembering is coming to mind. And I don't want to go down the bunny trail. I I'm very fascinated by these topics. Um, but what I'm hearing ultimately is that your writing practice supports your business in numerous ways. But when you're specifically preparing a keynote or a workshop, something that you're presenting to groups of people live, part of what you do is the visualization, the mentalization, the mental rehearsal. And that helps you tap into this storehouse essentially that's already in you, maybe tapping into your inner voice or your higher self to kind of make these connections and bring things together in a way that other people will understand. I'm curious to know if and how you might imagine your listener. Like, do you is part of your process taking time to um put yourself in their shoes or imagine how they're receiving it? Like be on both sides of it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

So two things uh in response to that question. First of all, with uh how you were sort of recapping my process, it also made me think of another aspect of it that I think is is maybe valuable to share, and that is when I'm actually speaking and then delivering that keynote. I also am really reading the room and I am seeing what's resonating with people. And when I'm speaking, I enter this other aspect of channeling as well. Again, where I have my slides, I've practiced it, I know the key points that I want to make, and at the same time, through sometimes an example will come out of me that I didn't plan to share. But for some reason, and I always um you know do a prayer within myself before presenting that whatever is meant to come through me, please allow it to come through me. And whatever this audience, whoever's in this audience today needs to hear, please allow that to come through me. And so sometimes I end up giving these examples that I did not plan to share, but it's for some reason, kind of either if a specific question came up or just kind of reading the energy of the room, that's what kind of spoke to me to share. And that's always a lot of fun for me as well. And that's why I particularly love delivering these engagements in person. Uh, you lose some of that, it's a little bit harder to gauge that. Uh, you know, certainly I've done uh many workshops and speaking engagements virtually as well, but it's a bit harder to engage that. Um and so definitely in person is my favorite because of that. And that's another aspect of it. But then another part of your question was like, how do I sort of visualize the listeners? And so, you know, with speaking engagements, they're right in front of me. I can see them. But, you know, for example, things like my pot my podcast, um Essential Self-Care, I don't have a listener right in front of me. And so, you know, in um in business, we talk a lot about like creating your ideal client, your ideal client avatar. I've spent a lot of time working with my ideal clients. And so, you know, hearing from their mouths directly and getting a really good insight into what's important to them, what are their challenges. Um, the past me was also my ideal client. So I have that as well. And so, um, and so when I'm sharing my podcast or thinking of who I want to invite and what topics I want to address in it, I'm always thinking of that person. And the same thing applies with my book in writing my book, um, is thinking of this specific person and what do they need to hear.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

So I'm curious to know when you're speak when you're speaking to a group live, so what could be a person, like a coaching session, it could be a group live. Um, I'm thinking about authors who might have an opportunity to do something like this, right? After they share their book and they get invited to speak about it, right? And they're thinking about how in the world do I approach doing this? Um, I know from personal like speaking experience, don't have a ton, but enough to know that it really requires a level of presence so that you're not getting stuck in your head. Because once you get stuck in your head, it can be hard to um stay on track, really. What are some things that you do to either beforehand or during your presentations or your talks to stay present, kind of stay soft and open enough that you can carry, like you can take in whatever energy is coming at you from your from your audience, respond and like respond to it in a present way where it's not kind of just getting stuck in your head or you're getting stuck over your your own um ideas and thoughts, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

That a hundred percent makes sense. I think um, you know, a few things. One is I still get nervous before every single speaking engagement, every podcast engagement, whether I'm a guest on a podcast today, or um even recording my own podcast episode, every single speaking engagement, I still always get a little at least a little bit nervous. Um and so that is just completely, and yet I love public speaking. I absolutely love it. And so that's just natural. So for anyone who is saying, well, but I get so nervous, great, you're human. It's okay. That's totally natural. And at the same time, to your point, not letting that sort of overtake you. And so uh, you know, many speakers have some sort of ritual before they get on stage or before they start recording an episode. And for me, part of that is what I shared with you earlier of just ask of just asking, you know, um, my higher power, you know, whatever's meant to come through me, please let it come through me. And trusting, and trusting that as well. And then in terms of, and then the first few minutes of an engage of many engagements, uh, I don't think the audience picks up on it, but I can tell with myself that it takes me a few minutes to really get into it because those first few minutes I'm still a little nervous. Once I get going and once I'm talking on this, it's for me, it's it's hard to break it down. And I might need to take some more time after this to kind of think about it because for me, it does feel like it comes so innately that I just sort of shift into that of of channeling. And part of that is that the topics that I'm speaking on are topics that I am so passionate about. And so it feels so natural and authentic and aligned. You know, if I was in a room talking about something that I knew nothing about, I would probably feel a lot different and a lot more nervous. But because the topics that I'm sharing are things that I I feel so deeply passionate about, it comes very naturally and innately for me. And when I say naturally and innately, again, that doesn't mean that I didn't prepare, but just that that sort of getting stuck in my head part, it it goes away.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

I see. Yeah, it's it's a familiarity and and probably to um the fact that you've taken time to process your own experience and accept it. I'm imagining an author, for instance, who maybe has written a memoir. Now, a lot of the authors I work with have had pretty traumatic experiences, right? Or traumatic childhoods. And I can imagine that if they haven't really taken the time to process that. Even if they've written it out and they're asked to speak about that in front of a group, that it might be really challenging. But when you've taken the time to accept or, you know, kind of release some things that it's easier to share that part of yourself. I I'm I am I'm glad that you've taken the time to to journal and process that. I just wonder what if you hadn't journaled through that season of your life, how that might impact your ability to show up now as a speaker. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 44:34

You bring up a really good point and a really important point. So one of the biggest pieces of advice that has stuck with me for my speaking and my writing is, um, and I'm not sure who I first heard say this, it might have been Brene Brown. I'm not 100% sure. I know I've heard Glendon Doyle say this as well, but it is to speak from your scars, not your wounds. Or write from your scars, not your wounds. So sharing from this place of healing and and having processed through and worked through a lot of that stuff on your own first, not on your own with your trusted inner circle, uh, first before um sort of sharing that publicly. The other thing is that you really get to decide how and and what you share. So for exit, oh, two things. One, you get to decide, and then also it's on your timeline. There's no other no one's expecting you to do this on a certain timeline. It's on your own timeline. So I first talked about what my first experience with burnout was before burnout was as widely talked about as it is now. I knew no one else who had experienced it. I didn't know that there was a word for it. And so I first talked about it, quote unquote publicly, probably about 15 years after I actually the first time I experienced it. Oh I talked about divorce probably about 10 years after. And I still talk, I don't get into nitty-gritty about either of those. Um, but they're a part of my life. I've processed it. But part of the reason I don't get into the nitty-gritty, also part of it is that I do feel like some of that um I do want to just sort of hold within my own inner circle. I think that's really important to share in this day and age where so much is publicly shared. And I think it's okay and in fact healthy to hold some things within your trusted circle of loved ones. And the other reason is that I've come to realize through doing this work over many years now, through both the speaking and the writing, of sharing when it's in service of the audience. And constantly running through my content, my content through this filter of am I writing this? Am I saying this because of me, or because I think the audience needs this and this will be helpful to them? And I constantly run it through that filter, whether I'm in a one-on-one coaching session, a keynote, um, or writing my book, I'm constantly running it through that filter. Is this coming up to share because it's something that my ego needs and wants some recognition for of, hey, look, I went through this, or is it because I think this part of the story actually is really going to serve the audience and their journeys?

SPEAKER_00 47:47

So helpful. I'm thinking about so many applications to apply, like so many different scenarios in which that benchmark can be, should be applied when either when writing or when speaking, but specifically when you're integrating parts or parts of your story into your shared experience.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

You can be an author who doesn't speak publicly. You can be a public speaker who doesn't write a book, and both are completely, completely valid. And so I think the first question to ask yourself is what lights you up? Is it the writing? Is it the speaking? Even if you've never done it, you might feel nervous about it. But if the idea of it lights you up and gets you excited, okay, then pursue it. If it doesn't and you want to stay in the zone of writing, stay in the zone of writing. It's completely valid. So I think that's the first point I want to make. And then I would say if you're an author and you want to start having these conversations or move into public speaking, I think starting to have the just start having the conversations with people in your daily life. Start there. I think finding what medium works best for you and what aligns best with you, you know. I mean, there's podcasts. So if podcasting feels like a sort of a safe next step to you, that could be an option. You know, Janae, I shared with you. When I started my podcast the first year, I did all audio and I had this little voice in my head of people saying, you should probably do video and you should post it on YouTube and you should do all these things. And I was like, that is gonna hold me up. Like, I'm not gonna do it if I feel like I have to do video. Like that was an obstacle for me. And so I was like, I am embracing what is lighting me up now, and that is creating audio podcasts. And I did that for the first full year, and then I switched to adding video after one year into it. I give that example just to share like start with what feels good to you. It doesn't have to look a certain way. Um, I also shared my own experience of like creating the opportunities for myself when I was first getting started. I mean, starting way back from those workshops in my parents' basement to creating um talks and workshops, um, you know, myself. And uh I think, I don't know, I think this is all just so important to talk about as well. That, you know, some of those had like really great attendance that I was super excited about. Some of them no one showed up, right? Many of them. But it just was like, I wanted to keep creating and I wanted to keep putting it out there. And I just think that's an important part of the journey, an important part of the story that just isn't talked about enough. And I think a lot of people, kind of in the quiet of their own home, can get, um, especially founders, early founders, can get really down about. And so I just want to bring light to that as well. I hope that answers the question.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

I'm happy, I'm really happy that you shared that. I'm hearing it's okay to chart your own path. You don't have to do everything, you don't have to be everywhere. Many times sharing your story, whether it be live in front of an audience or in your book, it's just part part of it is just starting to have those small conversations. And you don't even have to share all of it or all of your story. Um, but keeping in mind who you're speaking to, I mean, what the purpose of the conversation is, the why essentially is kind of like what can be your North Star when you're looking to make these decisions. Okay, I love that. All right, so you're working on a book now that integrates, I think it sounds like all of your experience, your lived experience, which you've heard from your coaching clients. And I want to know what your current writing process is. How are you tackling a book? It's a huge endeavor.

SPEAKER_01 52:02

It is. It's totally different than any other type of writing that I've done. I started in 2020, actively started in 2023 with starting to put together my first draft. I just pitched the proposal and manuscript to literary agents last week. So so far, it's been three years in the making. I've worked with an editor. Um it's messy, it's hard. And yeah, like I said, it's completely different than anything else. So, first of all, I went through a process. There was a great book. I I don't know remember the name of it off the top of my head. And it was so pivotal in me starting this process, though. Um, and so it was a book that I, you know, you tend to stumble upon these books at the time that you need it. So I was at a local independent bookshop, shout out to Prince Books, and my eyes came across this book of like how to write a nonfiction book. And so I started with some of that process, which started with like identifying who your reader is, identifying what's the you know, um, challenge that you want to help them through. And what's like what are you, what are you offering them? What do you want them to take away from your book? And so I started with that process. So I did have an idea in mind of specifically like this is the theme, this is what I want to write about, um, and including things that support that. And I started with, and this was a recommendation from the book, it said, you know, if you have writing anywhere else, if you've done any sort of writing, first compile all of that, put it all in one place and go through it and take inventory. What supports the theme of the book that you're gonna write and what does not? And that's where I started. So I went through like all of those blogs that I had written from 2014, so like close to 10 years of blogs of I had been um doing my podcast for a while. So I took like scripts and transcripts from my podcast episodes, just all of this content. And I put it all together. Truth be told, most of it is not in the book, in the final edition of the book. I knew the final edition, you know, it's still not at the final edition. The manuscript is to the point where I'll take it, and then once I get a publisher, there might be some changes. Um, but I started that way, and then I kind of eliminated everything that I didn't want to. I was able to start to see some structure to the book of like a sequence, and then I started to fill in. And so the parts of it where I was like um freeform writing, that first draft of like, okay, this is the concept I want to write about here. I was able to just like channel that. That just came through. But then that part to me came relatively easy. And then I reached this point where I felt stuck because I had over 200 pages of writing. I didn't remember, like, it's it was hard for me to know, like, did I already write about this story? Or is this included somewhere else? I don't remember. I don't know. And so that's when I got an editor. I was like, I'm stuck now. I need help. And so that's when I got an editor who kind of helped me um make sense of it all and uh helped offer guidance of like, you know, these are places to fill in more and that sort of thing. So then that editing process has taken two years. So I think that's also really important for people to know. Like that free form writing part for me, that sort of messy first draft, that was um something I felt familiar with because that was like that channeling process for me for the most part, once I knew kind of the structure of what I was writing about. But then the editing is a whole different ballgame. And so that's, you know, been editing for two years. Um, and so that's a whole different ballgame. And that's what it's uh kind of my focus in the writing of the book has been since then. And part of that process is something that we just talked about of like, will this serve the reader? Does this support the key takeaway messages that I want for the reader? Um, and so there are parts of my journey, um, there are parts of clients, you know, examples and stories, again, with just enough detail of like, will this support the reader? And I also want to go back to another, I really wanted to make another point here about this, is that two points. One is that my idea for writing a book came 20 years ago. When I experienced that first bad of burnout, I knew that I wanted to write and share about that at some point in my life. So I also want to share that that like again, there's no timeline that this has to follow. And then the other piece is that I have like an entire manuscript on my book in on my laptop of another book that I wrote, I was writing when I was going through divorce, part of my healing journey. And I found and thought that like, oh, this would be, and I structured it in a way that I thought it would be really helpful for people. And a few years ago, I reached out to an editor and I was about to move forward on working on that, and then I realized I realized that that book was my uh healing draft. And that was for me. And that wasn't meant, that wasn't meant to go out in the world. Maybe at some point it will down the road. I have no idea. But at that moment in time and currently still, that was for my healing. So like there's bits and pieces of that that I did pull into uh this current book, nowhere near the you know, depth of what's in that healing draft. And so I think that's really important too. And that is a full, like I have it structured in three parts. It's a full book, but it's it's I came to realize that that was for me. And that's where I talk about that difference of like some things can be only for you, and that's fine, and for your own healing, and that's completely valid. It doesn't have to all be um publicly shared. I mean, I do think for me, I I always did want to have a book out in the world, and that's what this book that I'm working on now is. Um, and I always felt felt that that's part of my journey, and so and so I am doing that, but I also have this other book that I'm not. That's that's solely for my own healing.

SPEAKER_00 58:46

That's fascinating. So you're an author a couple of times over at this point, and so I think it's worth noting for the book that you are working on now that you are taking the traditional publishing route, which I it it's it excites me a lot. It is a it is a more slightly more complicated process, but the benefits of that route are outstanding. And to have essentially like a full team behind you to carry your book across the finish line, I think is something that not a lot of authors get the opportunity to have. And so, yes, it does take a bit more time than self-publishing, right? But I think if some somebody with your experience and background can take that journey, and I see you're producing more books down the line, right? Because you have that support system, and that way you focus on the writing. The publishing company takes on that marketing support and getting it out there, and you get to kind of stay, stay close to your experience, and I don't want to say stay in your lane, but maybe you don't want to have to fuss with all the marketing of it, right? And you can just say, hey, here's the manuscript, here's what I've produced. Um, I'm ready to hand this off to somebody. Um, but I like that you what I'm so what I'm hearing though is that you had your North Star pretty early. You stuck closely to that North Star. You did take time to channel, and some things came easy, and that came through quickly. And then there were some things that you compiled that you had already written. So you got to like benefit from that that payoff of maybe those times where you had to work hard on the blog in the past, like you said, like writing a blog, and I've been there writing a blog and rereading it and rereading it, and at, you know, and feeling like, okay, is this ready to go out? Being able to incorporate some of those things and then integrate an editor. So you've been through like almost every stage of that writing process. And I think that's important to share because writing is like that. There's no, you don't stay in any one phase for the entire process, right? I think some people think might think that it's just the channeling and then magically it's done. Or some people might think that it's all like pushing through mud hard the entire time, and then somehow it gets done. It's it's a blend of all of those things. And it sounds like what you're doing is staying close to your intuition about how to carry the book forward. And I'm I'm grateful that you shared the example of your other book that you that you wrote and said, you know, this is not for anyone else to see right now or maybe ever, and that's okay. I think a lot, to be honest, a lot of authors would benefit from taking that that route.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:51

Yeah, you know a part of it for me also is that I hold all of these experiences as as very sacred. Uh, even though they were they were so challenging, and and you know, there was definitely a degree of of hurt and sadness and anger and all of those things, and some of those experiences. Um with the divorce, with the burnout, all of that. And and at the same time, those experiences were my greatest teachers. And so there's certain aspects of it that no matter how hard and challenging it was, I hold sacred. And some of those also I feel like are, like you said, they don't only involve me. They involve other people. They involve um, you know, people I was in relationships with, people I cared deeply about, their families, my family. There's a lot of other people involved in that. And and I feel like that's that's sort of sacred to our journey together.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:51

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wow. I have two more questions for you. And um one of them is so I want to talk very briefly about blocks because I have not met a writer who has not encountered some form of writer's block. And so I want to know for you, what practices did you engage in to help you work through or work past or work around writer's block?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:17

You know, for me, writing in the morning is when it comes the most naturally for me. So making sure that I'm writing in the morning. In the very beginning, when I was starting the book, I would set a goal that like my first hour of work for the day was gonna be working on my book. And so that was part of it. I didn't do that every single day. It probably would have gotten through it a lot quicker. But at the same time, I feel like that's the journey I needed. But even just saying that to myself, like if it was, you know, a couple mornings a week that that actually came to fruition that I was able to do that. That was great and that was progress. As it's gotten, as it's gotten further along, another thing, and actually I was doing this this morning, was like sitting on my couch and having a cup of coffee and just getting as cozy and as possible when I'm writing. I love that. I love that. Um, but definitely writing in the morning is super key for me. That's when I feel the most um creative, the most clear. Uh so that's a definitely an important part of my ritual. I think, you know how I mentioned I I told myself like the first hour of every work day, that's what I'm gonna work on. And it really wasn't every single, it didn't end up being every single day. But I think embracing that that's part of the process too, that you need some space around the creativity, which is totally different than like work, like work in medicine, right? It's a completely different thing, right? Of like or work in a corporate environment, right? Where where it it's it's productivity. I need space around my creativity. And so that's also really helpful and really important. So there's like consistency, but consistency consistency doesn't necessarily have to mean every single day, because also giving yourself space around it is important.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:20

Yes, I will echo that 100% because I mean I fully believe that sometimes when you're working on a labor of love that's taking months or years, many most of the time, you need certain life experiences to happen to propel you through those gaps. Sometimes the the block, like why people can't get through a certain chapter, is because they just haven't experienced what they need to experience yet to integrate into the book. And so when I encounter authors who come up against that block, I'll talk to them maybe three or four months later and they'll say, Oh, yeah, I some like I. I, you know, I had this experience and I was able to push right past, I was able to knock that chapter out after having that experience. And I say that's the way it's meant to be. Like your your book or what you're channeling knows that your experience essentially is what is what helps us channel the work. Because that's where the wisdom comes from. So I love that you say that having space between the creativity, that is part of the creative process, is making room for the space. And I think the most talented artists and creatives really prioritize and hold sacred that space. Right. Whether it be like the to me, it's like solitude or that time for self-care, time to engage in the somatic practices, which I'm sure your yoga practice really helps you do. It's it's creating that space between the creative or space. Did you say space between the creativity or for? Both.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:00

Both. I need both, actually. So I need space between. Um, and then space for it too. Like I need to, because I can get into a flow, a flow with it. And so being able to have this like one hour, two hours, or whole morning to just kind of go into it. Um, I need to take breaks there because sort of sustaining that focus in your writing. And I've spoken with other um editors as well who who say who also don't recommend, you know, working on it for really long chunks of time in a single day because of that. Um, but also space between it and also I would say engaging in other creative practices. So continuing to journal on my own, or you know, over the past few years, I've done things like pottery classes, ballet classes, running, yoga, gym, like engaging in other sort of, yeah, somatic and also cre other types of creative practices is really helpful.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:59

Amen. Wow. So, Dr. Shilo, I want to know any final words of wisdom that you have either for coaches who are working on a book like you are, or authors who want to break into the coaching world or start their own coaching business.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:20

I think just reiterating something that we shared earlier, which is really getting honest with yourself and asking yourself what lights you up and going in that direction and knowing that it doesn't have to look a certain way. Because I think, you know, in today's world, we often do see like we can see things like coaching, speaking, being an author, sort of coupled together, almost packaged together. And while that works for me, and I can trace back, going coming full circle to the start of our conversation, I can trace back to elementary school where I see all of those components as just being a core part of who I am. So that works for me. It may not for everyone. And so I think I would just come to that of really doing and following what lights you up and knowing that it doesn't have to look a certain way and it doesn't have to follow a certain timeline.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:14

Well, Dr. Sheelo, I want to thank you so, so much for sharing your wisdom here. All of your, like we've been talking about your life experience, the burnout, like building a coaching business, how you how you compile and build your keynotes in your workshops, and all the experience that you've brought into putting that into a book. And then coming and sharing that in this conversation over the course of an hour, there are so many takeaways that I know authors and coaches and anyone building a business or building something can take away from your experience. So I really appreciate you sharing that. I'm excited to see where your book goes. I know it will come out. I know a traditional publisher will pick it up because of what you bring to the table. And so I'm excited to continue to follow on your journey. And so thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:05

Thank you. Thanks for having me. It was such a joy and pleasure to talk about all of this. You know, we were sh I was sharing with you before we started recording that many uh that this conversation and the topic that we are discussing today isn't something that I've really discussed and and dived into on uh a podcast or through my speaking. And so it's been a lot of fun to reflect on it. Same. And how can how can people get in touch with you? The best place is my website, radiantlivinginstitute.com, and I will share information there, um the progress of the book. Uh the working title of the book is, and this is you know subject to change, but for right now the working title is Live Radiantly, let go of others' expectations and start living for you. And it does go through sort of a six-step path and framework that I've created. So if you want a preview on that, when you go to my website, radiantlivinginstitute.com. I do have a free guidebook that you can download. It's it's more of a workbook than a book that you read through. So it's more of a workbook where you're gonna answer some journal prompts to really start to clarify um what that looks what that journey looks like for you of letting go of others' expectations and really starting to live for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:27

Ooh, okay, I will be downloading that today. And I'll make sure I include your information in the show notes. But thank you again, everyone. I appreciate you tuning in, listening in, and thank you for joining me. I'm Janae Jordan with the Right Channel. I will see you next time.