Episode 1: Jessabelle Thunder – Beyond the Glitter, Into the Truth of Burlesque

Episode 1: Jessabelle Thunder – Beyond the Glitter, Into the Truth of Burlesque

Glitter doesn’t tell the whole story.

In this very first episode of Behind Burlesque with Isabella Bliss, I sit down with Jessabelle Thunder — Miss Exotic World, Reigning Queen of Burlesque — to trace a path from a hesitant first class to global stages. Together we uncover the craft, courage, and community that make burlesque so much more than feathers and fishnets.

Jessabelle shares the truth behind the crown: why she never chased titles, how she learned audience connection as a deliberate skill, and what it really means to break the fourth wall and turn a room into a living conversation. Along the way, we talk perfectionism, resilience when the music cuts, and the art of delivering your best performance for this audience, today.

But this conversation also pulls apart the stereotypes. We dig into the good stuff:
✨ How burlesque negotiates with censorship.
✨ Why tassels are a historical hack.
✨ The way styles shift across the Atlantic — from LA’s gritty floorwork to the UK’s theatre-rooted satire.
✨ Why authenticity matters more than fitting into boxes — from choosing music that truly moves you to creating acts that honour your body and your story.

Jessabelle makes the case for representation as a source of power. When the lineup reflects real people — Black, queer, fat, disabled, trans — audiences don’t just clap; they feel seen. That recognition can be life-changing, even if you never step onstage yourself.

If you’re curious about burlesque, Jessabelle’s advice is simple: start small and bold at the same time. Go to more shows. Try a class. Let judgment give way to curiosity. Live performance is a practice of presence, and it has a way of softening self-talk, strengthening confidence, and reconnecting us to one another.

This is the perfect place to begin your journey behind burlesque. Whether you’re a seasoned fan, an aspiring performer, or simply someone looking for inspiration to show up more fully in your own life, Jessabelle’s wisdom will resonate far beyond the stage.

🎙️ Hit play now for Episode 1.
💫 Subscribe for more candid conversations with the artists who keep cabaret alive.
✨ Share this episode with a friend who needs a spark.
🌟 And if you enjoyed it, leave a review — it helps more listeners discover the show.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:03

It's not just feathers and fishnets. Welcome to the real world behind the sparkle. Welcome to Behind Burlesque, the podcast that lifts the glittery curtain on the lives, lessons, and real talk of the burlesque world. I'm your host, Isabella Bliss, international showgirl, Marilyn Monroe tribute artist, coach, and eternal lover of sequins and storytelling. Each month I sit down with incredible performers, producers, creatives, and misfits who've made their mark on the world of burlesque and beyond. We talk career highlights, backstage breakdowns, body image, empowerment, and everything in between. Whether you're a fellow performer, a fan of the art form, or just curious as to what really goes on backstage, this is your space to feel inspired, entertained, and maybe even a little bit transformed. Make sure to subscribe and follow for your monthly dose of truth, tasses, and behind the scenes brilliant. What can I say about my first guest? I'm beyond excited to be launching this podcast with my next guest. Tea is a true powerhouse in the world of burlesque. With over a decade of experience and background in multiple dance styles, she fuses timeless teas with bold neo-burlesque energy that captivates the audiences worldwide. Born and raised in Los Angeles, she began her burlesque journey in 2009 and quickly rose to fame, named one of LA's top performers by timeout. Featured in iconic shows by Dieter von Tees and appearing in numerous films and publications, she's headlined festivals across the globe, ranked in the top 10 of 21st century burlesque's most influential performers list, and continues to leave unforgettable marks with every performance. And she currently holds one of the highest honours in the burlesque world. She is the current title holder of Miss Exotic World, Reigning Queen of Burlesque. Please welcome the incredible Jezebel Thunder. Yay!

SPEAKER_01: 2:03

It's like you're reading all that, and I'm like, who is that person? I guess that's me. You make me sound really good.

SPEAKER_00: 2:10

You are really good.

SPEAKER_01: 2:11

I need a copy of that from my bio.

SPEAKER_00: 2:13

Definitely. How does it feel to hear that? Like about yourself? Like, is that quite like a lot?

SPEAKER_01: 2:19

It's a lot. It's a lot. No, but it's accurate. I've done all those things, but it's like, wow, that person sounds amazing. And then I'm like, am I amazing?

SPEAKER_00: 2:29

I think sometimes it's performance, don't we? We forget the things that we've done and the achievements. And then when somebody reads it back to you, you go, My God, I did do those things.

SPEAKER_01: 2:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 2:38

That is really cool.

SPEAKER_01: 2:40

Yeah. I try to take some time occasionally when I can remember to like sit and sit and write down or really like um meditate on the things I've done because I get so, I'm sure, I don't know if you're the same way, but you get so stuck in everything that's going wrong and forget to look back at the things that have gone right and and then proceed from there. It's just always trying to level up, always trying to level up. And then you're like, oh, right, I have done some really cool things. And it's actually because I'm grateful for this title, like the crown. Because not only do I get to represent burlesque, I get to be like an ambassador of burlesque more. But also it's really teaching me that I can't make, I shouldn't keep making myself small.

SPEAKER_02: 3:22

Totally.

SPEAKER_01: 3:23

Because there's so many accolades that I do have, like that you've read that I'm just like, oh yeah, you don't have to say anything. Or someone's like, What's your intro or what's your bio? And I'm like, oh, that's okay. You don't have to say anything. You can just say I'm from Los Angeles. And then I'm like, oh no, I've done all of these things and I shouldn't like it. It feels very like braggy, like braggadocious is the word. If I like say all the things I've done, but I guess it doesn't. It like if I, you know, it depends on the way I say it, I guess. But I should, I should say these things more often.

SPEAKER_00: 3:54

Take up space and pick up space. Proud of your achievements, isn't it? Of like, say, we're so taught to like, you know, be really humble and play small. But if like we don't champion what we do and share that with others and be proud of that, then how can we light up the world and space for other people to come into that?

SPEAKER_01: 4:10

So true. And get people to see how how much more it is than just a small dive bar, yes. Small tiny pub, which are great for some things, but people have this idea that it's like either a huge theater or a tiny hole in the wall that we perform at, and that's all we do. But there's so much more behind it, and there's so much further that we can all take it. And I guess, yeah. I am proud of my achievements, but I just always try to just be like humble, probably too humble, I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 4:40

Not a bad thing. So I have some questions to ask you, my darling. Um, we want to talk about your performer's journey. So can you tell us how you first discovered burlesque or cabaret?

SPEAKER_01: 4:51

Hmm, how I first discovered it. It was uh pretty sure it was 40 deuce. 40 deuce. I'm trying to tell, I'm trying to, I want to tell the story, but tell it in a short form. Hopefully. Anyway, but I feel like I have to preface it with saying I was at a point in my life before I turned 21. Like I think I was probably 20, probably before 20 as well. I was going through a lot of magazines and finding celebrity hotspots because I was like really big into like in the 2000s, you know, you're big into celebrity culture. I think we all were. So I thought, like, where do the celebrities go? Wherever they go, I want to go there because it's cool. I want to take pictures there. I want to, whatever, all the things. So 40 Deuce was a place that was really popular in Los Angeles, uh, in Hollywood. And it was a cabaret burlesque bar with live music. And so I was on my list. Like I had posted notes of places I wanted to go. And I would scratch them off as I went along the journey, went along and did it. So 40 deuce was one of them. And I didn't know what burlesque really was, but I'm like, this seems like a really cool environment. And I guess when I turned 21, they closed the one in Los Angeles. But the one in Las Vegas was new and had, you know, was still going and thriving. So a boyfriend I had at the time, we went to that show at 40 Deuce in Vegas. I think maybe I was, I think I just turned 21 or I was 22, something like that. And in that age range where I was going to Vegas for the first time to really drink because 21 is the age in in the US. So we went to that bar and I was just like mesmerized by it, which I think back on and I go, I probably know, I don't remember who were the dancers, but I I know I probably dance with them currently.

SPEAKER_00: 6:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 6:30

Especially the one in LA. Like I know a lot of those girls that used to work there. They talk about it. I never saw them, but I get to perform with them now. So it's such a full circle moment. It's so crazy.

SPEAKER_00: 6:43

Like when the first ever burlesque show that I went to see, I then within a few years became part of that show. So like, wow, like I'm performing with the people that I looked up to and admired and inspired me to do the art. What was the first one that you said you went to? An evening of burlesque. Oh. So yeah, UK Theatre to Volvia. We used to do a lot of European dates as well. But yeah, I saw it at my local theatre, and I was that was my like catalyst of like, oh my god, this is amazing. Yeah. It's funny and it's entertaining and it's beautifully presented and it's sparkly and it's empowering, and it was so many things wrapped into one little, you know, bubble of burlesque and cabaret. And I just finally felt like I'd found my home. Which I don't know if you had the same kind of like, oh wow, that's where I feel like I belong. So to then become part of the show and you know, it was exciting. Well, that's huge. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 7:34

It's not about me. It's about no, no, it's about both of both of us. But yeah, I went to 40 deuce Vegas, became enthralled by burlesque, wanted to go back to Los Angeles to see more. I found other shows that were not like Forty Deuce. They were like themed nerdlesque shows. They were uh uh Monday Night Tees, which had a myriad of people from all over the world come in occasionally and do spots there. And then um, yeah, and then we went to Colorado to go for his brother's graduation. And I was like, we should see a burlesque show in Colorado and see what it looks like. So I went and they had a student showcase. And then I was like, Well, I didn't know you could be a student of burlesque and do this. And I turned to him and I was like, I would never do that, but that's really cool. And then we came back to LA and then he was like, surprise, I signed you up for a class. And I literally said, I don't want to do that. I was like, I don't want to do that. And he's like, No, but you were talking, you seem so excited. And I was like, I don't want no, I can't, because I like dance classes, but I always was in the back of the class. I was always like had to psych myself up to go, which was really scary just to go to a simple dance class, but to go to a burlesque class, and I had no idea what it was, what would happen in the class. It was terrifying. But I was at the time of my life where I was um going to school to be a therapist. And so I thought I need to take more risks so I can become more confident and more of kind of like not an authority figure, but another word for that, because you're not as a therapist, you're not an authority figure. But you're like you have knowledge, right? And you're guiding a client through something. So I thought, if I need, I need to have that confidence, so why not take a risk and do things out of my comfort zone to say that I did it and build my confidence? So that's why I was like, you know what, I'll just go and do it and say I did it one time and off my bucket list, and then 16 years later.

SPEAKER_00: 9:27

Amazing. Could you ever have imagined like going to that first class that you know, 16 years later you would be the reigning queen of burlesque? No.

SPEAKER_01: 9:38

Not even just that, I never thought I would do anything. I didn't know how far you could go with burlesque. I don't think a lot of people do, but I had no idea I would be doing shows all over the world and meet so many different people and make so many different friends and have a home base essentially here in the UK too. Like I didn't know how far it could take me in life and how much it would change like my life. Not for change completely, but shift it. Yeah, yeah, just by doing this one class. Yeah, it's pretty wild when you like reflect on it. I'm like so grateful that you took that first chance. I know, grateful to him, I guess.

SPEAKER_00: 10:16

But yeah. Do you remember what your first performance felt like?

SPEAKER_01: 10:21

Um, I remember being, I don't so I remember I had a blackout kind of moment. Like where I just went on stage and then it was done. I know in the moment I remember being like, oh my God, oh my god, oh my god. And people cheering, but I don't know what exactly I can't put myself back in that moment. Cause right now, looking back at it, I'm like, oh, I think I just did it. Just did it and blacked out. But I remember coming off stage and being like, that sucked. I messed up, I need to do it again. Like instead of drive to straight away want to get back out there. Yeah, and not get back out there for the joy of like performing. I was just like, it was an adrenaline rush. It was a good, it felt good, like nice excitement, but I was also mad at myself for being bad in my head. Yeah, I know from the beginning. But so I was like determined to go out and redo it. Yeah. And so uh Lily Von Strip was a perf uh producer of Mudday Night Tees, and she came to that graduation show and invited all of us to come do her show. And so I was like, yes, I get another chance to do it again. So for the at the beginning, it was kind of like me chasing this perfection, yeah, I guess, of trying to do better with the first act, which is not reality. Like everyone's first act is not gonna be perfect.

SPEAKER_00: 11:37

It's giving your grace to shelf the grace to do that, isn't it? Of being like, your first act is not always gonna be perfect, and even your first few performances aren't always gonna be perfect. And actually, even sometimes as a seasoned performer, you know, I we used to have this thing on the theatre show where just you know, there was a lot of pressure of like, you know, being Europe's largest touring theatre show and being like a headline act on there, and I would feel that pressure and the weight. And I used to always just say to myself, of like in the wings, I just want to deliver the best performance I can today, right now, for these people, right now. Yeah, just that kind of I found helped me get over the perfectionism of like I have to hit every beat and everything has to come off perfect. It was like just giving yourself that grace and that permission to just show up the best you can that day. And that kind of I don't know if you can resonate with that.

SPEAKER_01: 12:26

No, it's very true. Uh, I don't tell myself that often enough, but definitely for burlesque Hall of Fame performances that I've told myself just like I don't need to win anything, I just want to do a good job. I just want I did think I want everything to go perfect, perfectly well. I want things to come off the way they should. Yeah, yeah. And that's all I want. I just want to do a good job and represent myself well. The industry.

SPEAKER_00: 12:50

Yeah, sure. And so if you if you were to describe balesque to somebody who's never seen a show, what would you say to them? Like for those listening at home or watching on YouTube that have never seen balesque, how would you say a tough one, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 13:07

It is a tough one because there's so much because you have to condense it to like a sentence to get their attention. And I would say essentially it's a striptease show, but with storytelling elements and dance and comedy, and like as a short form just to get someone's attention to get in there. Because if I go on and on about how in-depth it is and how life-changing it is for people, like they're gonna eventually tune me out, I think.

SPEAKER_02: 13:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 13:33

So I have to give them a short, concise description to pull them in first and then be like, psych, it's actually much deeper than that.

SPEAKER_00: 13:39

Yeah. Uh and sometimes when you say the word strip team as well, isn't it? People have an instant reaction and you're like, no, no, no, you need to see it. Like it's not, you know, as you think it is. And and it covers so many genres now as well, which is so beautiful. Of how you know, and burlesque is always meant to parody and have fun and comedy, and that's kind of the heart and soul of it, which is great. Yeah, and what do you think makes burlesque different from other forms of performance?

SPEAKER_01: 14:06

Ah, yeah, I've thought about this. From other forms of performance. I think it I don't know, I want to say not from every form of performance, but I feel like burlesque breaks the fourth wall. I think in terms of other dance, uh mostly in other dance styles and things like that, there's always this look at me, look-at-me element, and not in a bad way. Just like you're on stage, you're doing a ballet, you're doing a Bollywood performance, I don't know, whatever belly dance, but it's you're just look at us as a group, we're here, or look at me as a soloist. I'm here on the stage, watch what I'm doing. And you're just going through the motions, like with intent, obviously, and entertaining the audience. But I think with burlesque, there's a conversation that, a dialogue that happens between the audience and the performer. And I've been chatting about this a lot more recently because I've just been working my brain trying to figure out like what can I teach people? Like, what more can I say? And I'm like, no, I think that's a big difference in most art forms. Like you're really having a conversation with like your eyes, with your movements. And so it's not just about let me show the audience what I can do, but it's also like kind of giving them energy and giving them something, and they're giving it back to you, and you're having this back and forth while you're on stage, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 15:25

So I think that's a beautiful immersive dance, isn't it? That communication that you have and you share is really and I think it's very like self-expressive as well, isn't it? I think as burlesque artists, I always say to people, like, we don't go on stage and read somebody else's scripts or sing somebody else's songs. Like everything we create in our little microcosm of an act is from our heart and soul. You know, we pick our own music, we make our own choreography, we do our own costumes, you know, we're our own little in-house production company, and therefore what we present to our audiences on stage is like, here's my song.

SPEAKER_01: 16:00

Yeah, sparkles. It's so true with sparkles, yeah. It's so true. It's so true. There are other dance forms that do that as well, but it is it is not so I don't know, yeah. I want to say regimented or rules. There's there's no real rules, restrictions. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:19

Yeah, it's the freedom of creativity, yeah. Being exactly who you want to be. Sharing that with others is what definitely inspired me, I think, and drew me into the art form of like, oh, you can create this thing and it can be, yeah. It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01: 16:33

Yeah. I think the first thing I remember, not the first obviously, but one of the things I remember thinking when I first started creating my first act was how cool it was to get to do my own own choreography to the music of my choice. Yeah. In terms of me thinking of it like um in opposition to a dance class. Like, so I was going to a bunch of dance classes and I'm like, when I show up to a dance class, I don't know what the song's gonna be, I don't know what the choreography is gonna be. And so I'm doing it because someone else has given it to me. And it's fun, but I remember thinking about burlesque and being like, wow, I can actually do this on my own. I can choose my own music and do whatever choreography comes to my brain. Like that was really exciting. I remember that.

SPEAKER_00: 17:13

Really liberating.

SPEAKER_01: 17:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 17:15

And can you share a moment on stage that was especially meaningful to you? I mean, I mean, the reason was if you had asked me a couple months ago, I would have said something different, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01: 17:30

Who knows? But I think definitely like being at Burlesque Hall of Fame this year and being given a crown and a trophy for beehof was really cool. Special. I was really meaningful, like, you know, on for many reasons. Like one that was my best friend that announced me, and he's said, like Tito Bonito, he said all the time, every time I've been at Beehof competing, he's like, You're gonna win, you're gonna win. And I'm like, shut up, I'm not gonna win anything. And this is the first year he was actually right. He hasn't been a good best friend. Oh but how many times beehawk? Competed at B Hop. I think this is the fifth time. Wow. I did best debut in 2014, and then I did 2016, competed for Miss Exotic World and then 2018. What is that? Is that three? 2014, Best Debut, first time exotic world 2016. 2018 I competed again and got first runner up, and then 2023 I competed for Miss Exotic Miss Exotic World at that time, it had shifted, and then now this year. Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 18:38

So that's a real testament of like pursuing your art and your dream and your career and not giving up because you got you know, you didn't maybe not achieve something you thought the first time around. And like so many people let those setbacks put them off of ever pursuing something again. But you showed like the determination to just keep showing up and work in there.

SPEAKER_01: 19:01

Yeah. And it wasn't even about winning a title for me. Like that was kind of like that's great, but it was more of I mean it's amazing, obviously, to win something. But I would that wasn't my driving force, was never to be the queen of burlesque. Like, I have to get that, I have to get that. It was just I want to be because it's such a prestigious show uh competition for us. Yeah, so for me, out of all the festivals and the competitions, it's at the number one. And so it number one because of the amount of people that go, the amount of people that apply, the amount of people that get chosen. Like it just means a lot just to be on that stage. Even if you don't want anything, it's just means so much to be there. It's not the end all be all, right? Because some people don't get in. And it doesn't mean you can't, you're not good. It just means the act wasn't what they were looking for at that time. Anyway, but for me, it was like just being on that stage and being presented in front of my peers from all over the world was just like a big thing. Like I wanted to be seen and seen in a good light to more people, basically.

SPEAKER_00: 20:02

And it's so part of our burlesque history and our culture, isn't it? Like you say, the burlesque Hall of Fame is just like such an iconic like if you don't know what that is in burlesque, it's like, do you even know what burlesque is? Yeah, that's facts. But how was that experience like when because I know we spoke the other day and you were saying that you know you just wanted to go out on the night and just give your best performance and that you wasn't worried about winning, you just wanted to do the best you could then. And so, how was it in that moment when you were standing on stage and they were calling out like second runner up and first runner up? Yeah, and you were just like and then you kind of like heard your name. What was that experience like?

SPEAKER_01: 20:42

That's so weird. It was really weird. It's still weird because this is what a couple months, weeks, I guess, after, and it's still weird. Yeah. Like it still hasn't, it's still, I still go, oh yeah, that happened. That wasn't a dream. Oh, that wasn't just one weekend thing. This is like a long go, an ongoing thing. Anyway, at the moment on stage, I had already had in my head who I thought was gonna win. I was like, oh yeah, these people, this person, this person. So when names got called, I was like, huh. That's interesting. That's interesting. And Tito actually told me, he said, if uh he's like, I swear, girl, if if your name is in the envelope, I'm gonna be the one to say it. Like he's like, Delilah's gonna be there, but I want to be the one. If it's your name and open the envelope, you'll know because I'm gonna be the one to say it. And I was like, okay, whatever, I roll, because I always eye roll him. I love him, but I'm always like, yeah, yeah, whatever. And then on stage, when names got called, that I was like already like, what's happening? Like, I shook it up. And then I heard him get on the microphone and say, in our miss our mixed exotic world. And I literally was stood there like on stage next to Ariel Helvetica and someone else, and I kept going, no, no, for out loud, being like, no, no, no. And then his his voice cracked, and I was like, Oh my god. Like and then I started tearing up and I was like, this can't be happening. And then he said it, and just like hearing everyone's excitement just felt so heartwarming. Like I really, really truly felt like loved and supported by everybody, like in the world. Like it was so nice to get messages from people from all over the world. Yeah. Being like, you deserve this. It was so meaningful to us, and it's fun. Like I knew it was gonna be your time to get it. And you know, you're an amazing person. Like so many people giving me so much, so many nice messages that I really felt like I was like, I do feel love from everybody.

SPEAKER_00: 22:40

So it's really like yeah, and like you say, people come from all around the world, and like it and people from all around the world watch it, and we all tune in and like want to see who's you know the next queen, and it's just really it's wonderful that yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:55

Queen's or whoever, whatever title they choose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's exciting.

SPEAKER_00: 23:03

Has it inspired you on your creative journey as a burlesque artist and a performer? Has it changed your inspiration and your drive and your journey since having the title?

SPEAKER_01: 23:15

Not so much, not too much. I do feel like a little bit of um pressure to create a new act sooner than I would because I have a lot, I have like uh a playlist of songs I want to do acts to, but I just haven't done anything yet. Because I haven't felt inspired to build a costume, whatever. So that performance aspect is like something I'm just like, oh yeah, I should I want to do that. I need to do that. But in terms of where I want to take my burlesque journey, like that hasn't changed. Because before Beehof happened, I was already talking to friends of mine about how I want to elevate LA burlesque. I want to get burlesque more into like mainstream people, like more into different audiences and really get it into the media and get it respected and valued as an art, get people excited about it too, to come to shows because as we know, like things are closing left and right. So I was like, what's the issue here? Like people aren't coming to shows, they're not excited about it. I kept saying wrong choice of words, but I kept saying people don't care about burlesque besides us. And so I'm like, how do I make people care about it? And so that was something I kept thinking about well before Beehof happened and just having conversations with friends. So now that like Beehof has happened, I'm like, right, okay, now I have this backing me up with the crown and the community. And so I'm like, this is I have to go harder on these things. Like I have to really push myself even more to like make these things happen. Yeah. Like to reach different audiences, to elevate LA burlesque. And so it's really like pushed me a bit harder, I guess, to do those things that I was already thinking about.

SPEAKER_00: 24:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 24:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 24:52

I think it's something like every burlesque performer can take away from that message as well, isn't it? Of like the only way to elevate our art form is to elevate ourselves and make sure that we're showing the outside world that it is a profession. It is something that people do as a career, it is a beautiful art form. It's not just something that uh I don't know, I can't find the words to do like but it is art and it is art that's valuable and meaningful, and it comes from a long history, and so many people throughout history have fought for us to be able to perform this art form now, and it's really important to honour that memory and that legacy. Or that's kind of how I've I've always felt stepping out on stage of like I get to do this because of a long line of people before me stood up to make sure that we could do this because that kind of unknown knowledge that actually, like early on in the burlesque, you know, history of like people were being arrested for it, because it was kind of like scand, like scandalous that you know, and how like nipple tassels actually came around because people weren't allowed to be bare breasted on stage. So the censorship was that you had to wear nipple tassels. Yeah, like the kind of I love the boldness of all of the artists throughout the years of every time there was a censorship of telling them, Oh, you can't do that or don't do that. They kind of found this like rebellious way round to make sure that the art could survive and grow and evolve. Yeah. And so kind of definitely it's a really I like that about the rebelliousness of Bellance.

SPEAKER_01: 26:20

It is very much so. And the, you know, that word empowerment, it's like we have to. I think 21st century talked about that word empowerment being overused, and I get it, but it's also like a quick, again, easy way for people to make sense of it. And that's like it's rebellious, it's empowering, it's like meaningful, it's yeah, so much. And I also think I'm trying to think of the right words or how to say it, but in order to get more mainstream people to attach to it and get excited about it, we have to talk to them about the history of burlesque, yes, but also about and what you were saying about the different people that paved the way. Like it's also not just burlesque people, it's also like women, women's rights in general, yeah. And feminists back in the day who, you know, they weren't doing burlesque, but they were doing other things to like shape the world and like, you know, things like that. So without those people that fought for our rights hard, and you know, maybe those burlesque people were inspired by those women in politics, or you know, there's so many different um crosshairs, is that the word, or so many different like lanes, I guess. Yeah, that it can all be can be attached to burlesque. And I think that's what people don't see enough. They think people always go, Oh, it's nudity. People don't want to touch nudity, yeah. But it's like it's so much deeper than that. Like when I go to shows, I often forget, or when I invite people to shows, I often forget that people are taking their clothes off. Yeah, and people don't like that, and I go, Oh, right, all right, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00: 27:53

Isn't it interesting though? That experience comes from other people's shame about their body and it's so culturally drummed into that any way of showing your body um in a sensual or sexual way is like a negative thing, and we shouldn't do that. And it's like it's that completely natural, and we need to like get over that kind of shaming of ourselves and our bodies and shaming of other women and shaming of other um other people in burlesque, you know, because it's not just about women, but yeah, but like getting over that shame of being like there is nothing wrong with being you know, expressing yourself in a glamorous, naked, fun way, and yeah, kind of get over that body shaming would be a great leap in kind of society in general.

SPEAKER_01: 28:45

Oh yeah, definitely, definitely it's so like in chatting to a bunch of people on this recent trip, like we were talking about, I've been talking about how other other forms of art or other media are like doing borrowing from burlesque, like doing burlesque things, but nobody wants to fully go into burlesque. And I think it's because they have an issue with nudity, and it's not even like we're not fully new, we're just taking things off in a sensual, not even always sensual, sometimes a funny way. Yeah, yeah. Just we're taking things off, and people just only like attach to that and it freaks them out and makes them uncomfortable. But art is supposed to make people uncomfortable, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 29:27

Doesn't make you think, isn't it? Challenge your perspectives and that's like the beauty of burlesque is some burlesque presentations are so powerful in their art form that they really challenge you down to your soul. Like, you know, burlesque can be really political at some levels, and you know, it's great to see all aspects of that. I think you know, explaining to people that have maybe not been to a burlesque show of like burlesque can be anything from like the high end glamour to the comedy to the gory to the political, it like really does that's the beauty of the art. It crosses so many themes and genres and challenges you. And it should be.

SPEAKER_01: 30:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it just, even if it's not a political act, just what we do is political. Yeah. Just being like, you know, I know everyone, lots of people do it, obviously, but I'm just in my brain right now chatting to you about it. But as women just being on that stage and taking up space without taking anything off. I mean, look at Lynn saying, like, look at me, that's political. Yeah, yeah. So many people have issues with women.

SPEAKER_00: 30:32

Women taking up space. Yeah. I've seen some um beautiful um videos online of Paul Noir and like watching her. I watched a performance of hers recently where she didn't even have a track play. And she like owned that room with her. And I don't even think she took anything off, but the way she entered that room was such presence, grace, and really sat in her own power. I was like, that is beautiful. We kind of like you know, need more of that. It blew my mind watching her do that performance. And she was one of the people I think early on when I got into burlesque of like looking up that um, you know, she was really iconic.

SPEAKER_01: 31:10

She definitely, definitely is one of the leading figures of the times. Like when we all, well, most of us started. I guess when you and I probably started, it's like it was Pear Noir, Dirty Martini, Joe Boobs. I mean, they're still out there killing the game, but those are people I remember.

SPEAKER_00: 31:27

Yeah. We were talking the other day about the difference between um what we would say like American style burlesque and British burlesque. And because so you come from LA and you've performed a lot in the UK and Europe, what's your big experience been of the styles? Is there a difference?

SPEAKER_01: 31:42

Yeah, I think there's a difference. I think everyone, you know, obviously to preface it with everyone everywhere has different styles. But it to like kind of just lump it in, I think in the UK and Europe, it feels more like a we slate, like I said, theater-based, like based in theater, like comedy. And I think a lot of it is a lot quite silly, like has a lot of silly elements to it, and also super serious elements in the UK and Europe. But I think in in America, I feel like we have that too. Like just again, both pla all places have all a mixture. But I think a a good way to kind of talk about American burlesque is like it's very, like I said, rooted in strip club stripping. I think.

SPEAKER_00: 32:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 32:29

I think in terms of like we're often on the floor, we're a bit more gritty, we're a bit more like grimy and not in a bad way. It's a bit more like nasty, I guess, and not in a bad way at all. But like, you know, there's a lot more bumps and grinds, a lot more humping the floor, there's a lot more floor work in general. I don't do enough floor work, but I like it. I love watching it. But I feel like I in just in saying it very quickly and concisely, like, I definitely see a lot more Americans getting down on the floor than I do British people. And like throwing the thing, like it's wild. It's wild. Like people, people have said to me that I'm like a wild, controlled, wild reformer. Like, and I'm like, oh yeah, maybe I do. I do throw my stuff around all the time. I fling it mostly out of anger because it's not coming off completely the way I want it to. So I just throw things, but it is a bit more good chaotic, I guess. But I feel like, yeah, I feel like uh in America it feels more, much more sexual, not just sensual, much more sexual. So maybe that's why people have an issue with it in America. Yeah puritanical religious things.

SPEAKER_00: 33:42

We'll get in there. We'll get in there.

SPEAKER_01: 33:44

So again, everyone's different all over the world. But if I had to say those would be the two, those were the two, I think.

SPEAKER_00: 33:51

Yeah. It's probably like our British way of like either stiff upper lip or silly sense of humour. Like maybe. Yeah. You know, yeah. I and I remember like when I first got into burlesque in this country, of like it was very much like there was a looking down on people that were strippers and burlesque performers of like it wasn't cool and it wasn't trendy, and I've like I came from striptees. Yeah. And so I had to very much hide that part of myself because it just wasn't accepted in our community here. And it's been really beautiful to see that change, you know. And and meeting Joe King was a big because you had lunch with Joe the other day. Joe King's our British balesque legend. And I remember the first time I did a show with Joe, and she kind of pulled me aside and she was like, You're a stripper, aren't you? I was like, Oh my god, it busted. I felt like so mortified. And she was like, No, she was like, It's your greatest superpower. She's like, You need to lean into that for your performance style, and so that kind of became my thing. I was like, Okay, I'll I'll honor that and lean into that. And that helped me connect with my audience and not being ashamed of that and sharing that with people and being able to talk about that. The more we can talk about those things, the more comfortable people can get if you have conversations today.

SPEAKER_01: 35:04

It's so true, it's so true. Also, I've had uh friends of mine tell me over the years, because you know, we like kind of like what you said, you were trying to fit yourself into a burlesque box, but burlesque is not just one thing, which probably also I'm just going into tangents, probably also why people have an issue with it because they can't define it perfectly, and that makes them uncomfortable. And it should make you uncomfortable because that's what art does. Anyway, like we try to fit ourselves into this box of what burlesque is. Yeah. And then what makes it even better is when we can just be our unique selves and not try to fit into a mold. Cause for a long time I was just like, I want private gigs, I want to be paid lots of money, so I have to have a classic act, I have to be dripping in rhinestones, and I have to have all these a giant bowen, giant fat. Like I thought so I had to have all these things to like fit in this box of doing burlesque. And I got most of those things, and I still didn't get what I thought I was gonna get. And so my a friend of mine was just like, what makes you special and what draws people to you is that you aren't putting yourself in this like stiff box, you know, like keep doing what you do, and someone will come along and see it and love it. And yeah, people be inspired by just doing what you do, not trying to fit into a mold that everyone else does. So I think like, yeah, owning the strip club stripping, like it's great, and and infusing that more into what you do with burlesque is like really great.

SPEAKER_00: 36:39

And it's the art of burlesque and it's like show up authentically as yourself. And yeah, you know, you can't go far wrong with anything in life. I think when you just 100% show up authentically as yourself, and then people can see you and love you and and accept you. Um, and hopefully by showing up authentically as yourself, you can then inspire others to also authentically show up as themselves as well. Yeah, definitely. Yes. Is there something that you think about the burlesque world that might surprise people?

SPEAKER_01: 37:13

Uh everything. I think everything. Everything. Yeah, just go see go see multiple shows. Yeah. Because I think I've been saying this for ages, is that I think people go to a quote unquote, what I think, whatever, is not a great burlesque show, like a bad burlesque show, right? I think that happens a lot. People just go see a show and they don't like it and they think it's bad, and like, oh, the burlesque is terrible. I've never seen another show again. But it's like you just saw that one show. Like, go see multiples because they're all different. They're all gonna be different. And go to like what your thing is. Like, if you like nerd less, you can find it. If you like queer less, you can find it. If you want burlesque drag, you could find it. Like it's just search for it. But people just go, oh, I'm gonna go see a burlesque show. And they go to one and they're like, I don't like it, I hate it. Never seen it again. And it's so frustrating because there's so much of it out there all over the world, and people just need to keep like find multiple shows and you'll get what you you'll see what you like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 38:15

And just like keep getting out and then supporting shows, isn't it? We were discussing earlier about how many kind of cabaret spaces and venues have shut down over the last few years because people aren't going out anymore. You know, it's much easier to sit at home and watch TV, and it's kind of like being out in a room with other people, watching art and sharing that art together is such a beautiful experience. And I hope that people remember or start to remember that there is something really magical about being in a room with people, witnessing art, yeah, talking to your friends that you're with about art, and just like celebrating that in a space together as human beings, that that togetherness is really important. We really hope that you know, over the next few years people start to remember that going out and sharing those spaces and yeah, see shows, see more shows.

SPEAKER_01: 39:03

Yeah, being together, exactly. And it's not just cabaret that's suffering or burlesque shows, it's like a lot of different live entertainment things. People aren't going out. And yeah, no, you're right. Like just being together is like a special and you we need it.

SPEAKER_00: 39:20

Yeah, and you can see like a bales show for a fraction of the price of like, you know, you could go to like at your favourite artist concert and pay like, you know, three, four hundred pounds for a ticket. Whereas you could go to support some local burlesque shows and it might be, I don't know, anything from ten to thirty-five pounds a ticket and how many more shows you could see for your 400 pounds. That's so true. It's so true. So yeah, just kind of get more people back to shows.

SPEAKER_01: 39:46

We just have to figure out like how to grab them. I think doing what you're doing, like this podcast and things like that, it will help. It's definitely helpful. And we just have to push it out there to more people so they can understand that it's not just only like, oh my god, they're stripping. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 40:03

And that was kind of like the ethos behind wanting to do this podcast, is because so many performers that I've met over the years have such incredible stories about how they got into the industry and what inspired them to pursue the industry and what continues to inspire them. And I was like, God, I wish people could hear the stories that I hear because I find them so inspiring. That's like one of the biggest things I get excited about backstage is when I meet new performers and I'm like, so what inspired you? How did you get in? Because I I find it inspiring. I was like, if we can find a way to share that with other performers or up-and-coming performers or people that maybe don't know a lot about the industry, then hopefully it gives them a different insight to the people behind the sparkles on this, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 40:48

Yeah, definitely. I know when I had my Instagram, when I first got my Instagram post or uh account, I was like, yeah, I want it to be a scrapbook for myself. That's how I see it. But I also wanted to show people the person behind the sparkles. Like I wanted to show people, like it's not, I'm not just this like stiff burlesque performer who just only does this one thing. Like I have other things I do, showing them like, yeah, the behind the burlesque, like the podcast, like the pug.

SPEAKER_00: 41:18

How do you stay inspired or motivated creatively? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_01: 41:26

How do I stay inspired? Aga yeah, just meeting meeting people, traveling, traveling the world definitely has been helpful. I didn't always get to do that. Like I'm privileged that I can do that. But that is very like seeing different being in different shows with different people and meeting people and then seeing how they do burlesque is very inspiring.

SPEAKER_00: 41:49

You always learn something from other people, don't you? I do find that I always love standing in the wings and like watching people that like I get to share the stage with. And I there was so many times on an evening of burlesque where I would just be like standing in the wings, like watching on these theater stages and just being like, my god, these people are amazing. Yeah. And then I'd be like, and I get to share a stage with these people. It's just like buzzing.

SPEAKER_02: 42:12

It's so true.

SPEAKER_00: 42:13

And everyone you meet along the way, isn't it? They inspire you creatively, you make beautiful friendships around the world, you have incredible experiences that had you not delved into the art form itself, you wouldn't have had kind of those experiences.

SPEAKER_01: 42:27

That's so true. I often think, like, where would I be if I didn't do this? I have no idea. I can't even fathom like what kind of person I would be without having done burlesque at all. Yeah. Yeah. Music also inspires me, going back to that question. That's one of my big like personal inspirations. Music is always first for me.

SPEAKER_00: 42:50

Hear that song and then you go, oh my god, I have to create an act to that. Yep, yep, exactly. Is there a song on your playlist at the minute that you think that's the next one?

SPEAKER_01: 43:01

I can't say because then people might tell you.

SPEAKER_00: 43:04

Okay. You won't point. It's hard sometimes to find songs that people haven't already done an act to as well. There's like some songs that are like staples in burlesque. But then I think for like Burlesque to Move with the Times, what a lot of us are trying to do now is not always use like classic bump and grind numbers that we all grew up with that hail from the heritage of burlesque. Like a lot of us are trying to, and a lot of performers do really cleverly and really creatively blend, you know, voiceovers and different tracks and create their own unique piece with the music. And I love that.

SPEAKER_01: 43:44

Yeah. I definitely from the from the start. Well, actually, I can't, that's a lie. From the start, I thought it had to only be fever and summertime. And like I thought that's what burlesque was. Yeah. And then I learned being in LA, um, I got took a class, and they were like, the instructor was like, oh no, I do modern music. And that just blew my mind instantly. And I thought, oh my God, scrap all this stuff, throw it away that I had. I'm doing these two songs, one of these two songs. And one was like um, Get Off by Prince was like one of the first ones I was thinking about doing. And the first one I did was N E R D She Wants to Move. What? It was between those two songs because they were just songs I just remember being a kid and listening to music in the car all the time and just creating my own choreography in my head, like based on the story of the song and the music. And so get off was like, I don't know. I love that music video with the butt out, and just it was so great. So I was like, that song, and then Any RD She Wants to Move, and that's the one I chose. But yeah, yeah, yeah. That I thought it had to only be these classic songs. But so now all the songs I have in my playlist for potential acts are new songs. Like nothing's old, old, like old, I guess, 90s, but keep you inspired though.

SPEAKER_00: 45:04

Yeah. What what advice would you give to somebody who's curious about trying burlesque for the first time? Just do it.

unknown: 45:12

Do it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 45:13

Just do it, just try it because you just never know what could happen. That's what I did. I was like, you know what? Just go for it. Just take a risk. And just I was not, I'm not a theater kid, I'm not a dancer, I've not been on stages. Never solo ever. But at that time in my life, I was trying to push myself. So I did do a solo talent show and I did something else that I did. I think I took a debate class or something like that, just to get myself to take more risks to push myself to do things I wouldn't normally do. So all that to say, I was never someone that would stand on stage by themselves. Like you could ask anyone in my family or friends from back in the day, and they'd be like, No, we never thought she would ever do this. It's really weird. Like, that's not the person that we knew. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 45:59

And that's the inspiration, isn't it? Of like you 16 years ago could have never imagined that this would be your life now, but you had the courage to show up for yourself and take that chance and that opportunity and look at the beautiful adventure that that's taken your life on. And yeah, that's what I kind of always say to people you're thinking about trying it, just go to a class. Like you don't have to get into burlesque because you want to be a professional on stage. Like you can take weekly classes somewhere just because you want to have fun and connect with your body and move and have maybe a community of people that you connect with every week. It's that that isn't it? It's the kind of you know, connecting with your body, connecting with a community of people, and just having a space to express yourself for fun, which is so important. I think as adults, we lose that like ability to have fun. That's so true. So true.

SPEAKER_01: 46:53

Yes. I know when I first did my first class, I remember going to 40 deuce and seeing the girls there that are dancing, and they all look one way. They're very, they were all trained ballet dancers, they were all slim. They, you know, I never thought I could ever do it personally. Not that I didn't think I had the confidence because I didn't, but but I also thought, oh, I look like this, so I could never do burlesque. And then when I went to my first class, no one in the class looked like that. Everyone looks so different, and they all had different levels of experience. And I thought, whoa, this is a game changer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 47:27

And that's the beauty of the art form, isn't it? Is like it is all inclusive and it is for everybody. And I think that's really important for people to understand that is like it's a welcoming, safe space to like just dip your toe in and be expressive and just have fun and play, and for all um shapes and sizes and um yeah, like genders and all of the like uh ways that you want to express yourself, you can find a safe home in Burlesque and do that and be authentically yourself, yeah. And be your kind of crazy creative weirdo, and that people are gonna love it. Find your kind of tribe, I guess.

SPEAKER_01: 48:09

Yeah, yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_00: 48:11

What would you say is the best piece of advice you've received for your career?

SPEAKER_01: 48:18

The best piece of advice. Oh gosh. I can't I don't know. I don't know. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, like what people have said. I know along the way people have said things. Um, you know what? No. I guess the best piece of advice I got was that at the beginning. I've had lots of advice along the way that has always been helpful and useful. But I know at the beginning, Lily Von Stupp, who was doing Monday Night Tease, that was the producer that I did her my second performance was at her show. And she, I remember her telling me, you have you're very talented, you have the right moves, you've like really entertaining on stage, but you're missing the you don't have, she didn't say that word, the words like that, I don't think, but she's like, you don't have an audience connection. Like you're missing the piece about the audience connection. And I sat with that and I was like, what does that even mean? Like I have no idea. I'm not a theater person. I'm like, what could that even mean? I have no idea. And then I went to um, yeah, it's it's like I dwelled on it for ages, being like, what is that? Because I would look into the audience, but I would look through them, I would look above them because it was just, you know, it's nerve-wracking. I've never been on stage before. I was like, this is terrifying. So I would just go through the motions of doing my choreography. And then I thought it was fine. And then she said, audience connection. So then I went to BurleyCon, which is the convention in Seattle where they do lots of workshops and lectures. And they had a class. I can't remember who was teaching for the life of me. I can't remember who taught it, but it was about connecting to your audience. And I remember being like, I'm just gonna take that class, which is something in hindsight, I'm like, wow, that's pretty bold of me to be like, I'm gonna fix this and to take this class because I'm not, I'm not good with one-to-one, like intimate, like you know, I'm not great at it. So I was just something, something in my brain was like, do this class and take it. And I think something in that class like snapped in my brain, and I was like, I get it. And I just started doing burlesque slightly differently, whatever it was I'm doing. And now people comment on that of that aspect of my performance. Yeah. And I don't know what what clicked in my brain, what someone said in that course, but whatever it was, it it worked out.

SPEAKER_00: 50:40

And that's the thing, isn't it, as an artist or when you're growing up through the industry, is being able to take those like advices and criticisms from people and sit back and look at yourself and your performance and go, does that make sense? You know, do I need to work on that? Can that make me a better performer? And then leaning into that is like how you grow and evolve of like I always think like never think that you're too good to learn something, you know. Even now, like I still take advice from people and I'll ask people that I value their advice because I think you can always grow and be better and do better. Because we're only gonna be better together as a community, yeah. Better together, yeah. What's the one thing that you can't perform without music?

SPEAKER_01: 51:33

But I mean, as we see, Pearl Noir can do it without music. But I I think I need me, I need music. Music. Have you ever had your music cut off? All the time. Yeah, all the time. But I've powered through it. I've definitely, yeah. Just I, yeah, I don't know. I'm thinking my brain is thinking about a bunch of things. But if people could also see how that aspect of burlesque is like life-changing too, right? Because when we have when we have chaotic moments, we push through and we carry that outside into our real lives. You know, because I was probably, I still have a little bit of a mini meltdown when things don't go right, but I go, it's it's fine. It's gonna work out. And that comes from having that experience of live entertainment where things go wrong. You're just like, I have to keep going. Yeah, like either. I have to keep going. Like I've had music cut off completely as I've already entered and started taking things off. And I'm like, I guess I'll just stand here and talk to people. And the music kicks back on. I'm like, here I go. Or I've had um in recent times, I was doing a new act and the um music cut out like briefly and then started up again. But it was an instrumental portion, so I couldn't mid-stage performing, couldn't know I didn't know where the song was, but I just kept going. And people were like, We didn't even notice that it did that. Like you just kept going. And I'm like, Yeah, because I didn't know what else, I couldn't stop.

SPEAKER_00: 53:01

It's the resilience, isn't it, that you build as an artist, like over the time and over the years of like, you know, I think it's important to say to people at home, like, you know, we step out on different stages every night. Every stage might be a different size, there might be a different surface on the stage, and you've got to be able to dance your number on a different stuff. The stage might be ranked, you might be in somebody's garden, like you might be in a little cabaret bar, you might be on a theatre stage, but you're constantly looking at that space and developing your act as you go and how you fit it into that space and connect to your audience. And then if stuff goes wrong, if a bit of costume gets stuck or like the music cuts out, you're in the moment going, Well, it's live theater. You just keep going. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 53:43

What if the audience hates you? Well, not hate's a strong word, but what if they're like, uh, I'm just here is because someone told me to be here. That also is part of the environment. Like the audience can be. You can have everything right, like a nice, beautiful stage, nice, beautiful lighting, but it could be an audience of people that have no idea what this is and they're just like sat back, can you ready to judge you?

SPEAKER_02: 54:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 54:04

And you have to just keep going.

SPEAKER_00: 54:06

Do you feel you have to work harder in those situations? Like the difference between when you step out on a stage and an audience is prepped well by a host and they know what to expect. And the difference between when you step out on a stage and the audience aren't quite there, how do you do you deliver your performance differently? Like to overcome that boundary.

SPEAKER_01: 54:25

I don't know that I actually do anything quite super different. I definitely have over the years of my of me doing it, I will I don't shy away from people who don't feel don't seem that they like it. Like that makes me want to go towards you more, actually. Like I know I can tell, and we we have the superpower, right? I think in those performers, where we can tell people who are uncomfortable, but they like it, and people who are like, hell no, get away from me. Yeah, yeah. Like you can kind of in this in the split second tell who those people are and be like, okay, I'll move away from you, but I'll go over here to this person. Or you can see the people who are like stoic, but they like love the attention. Yeah. And so you're able to read people a lot better. And when those people are like sat back, just like arms crossed, I'm like, ooh, I'm gonna come closer to you. I'm gonna get you, I'm gonna crack you, I'm gonna make you crack. And it's like a challenge.

SPEAKER_00: 55:23

Yeah, yeah. And I've seen performers do that. And of like, they really hone in on somebody and that's sitting kind of near the front, and then it just like that kind of desire to win them over in a fun way. Yeah, like, come on, we're gonna get you on this.

SPEAKER_01: 55:36

Yeah, you're gonna love this by the end of it. Trust me. I've had so many of those experiences, but I've also had experiences where people are like, yeah, no, that's fine.

SPEAKER_00: 55:46

Yeah, it's not for everybody, I guess. But for most people, it's like, come on, enjoy it. Yeah, giving yourself, I think when you go to a ballet show, isn't it, of like giving yourself permission to open your heart and mind and just let your mind wander and be present in the experience and just it's like letting your child dance, isn't it? I always think whenever you go to live theatre, live performances, you're letting your inner creative and your inner child just dance and enjoy the experience. Yeah. Almost like getting out of your own way and kind of just going, Oh, let's just see what happens. And like having more approaching going to shows with more curiosity than you do judgment. You know, I think if more people went into spaces of any arts with more curiosity than we do judgment, because people seem to pass judgment very quickly without being curious as to like, oh, I wonder why they do it or you know, how do they do it?

SPEAKER_01: 56:44

Yeah, yeah. There's like I like this or I'm gonna hate this.

SPEAKER_00: 56:48

Yeah, there's no in between, and they can be in between. Yeah, because that can be like I like a bit of this, but I don't like this. But until you've sat through, like we said before, like lots of different shows and like yeah, have conversations with performers when you can and just you know, have more conversation and more connection. I think. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01: 57:08

Going back to like that uh thing about winning people over or not, it made me think it made me think about something that I don't know, I don't want to say it's not trivial, that's not the right word, but just I get a kick out of sometimes going to different shows all over the world, yeah, and people talk about me, but they haven't, the audience doesn't know who they're gonna see, maybe because I'm not on the fly. I don't know, whatever, whatever it is. I like when people say all these things about me, and I can I can guarantee that people have an expectation of what they're about to see. And then this black performer comes out who's not super skinny and they're just like instantly like, wait, shift, a brain shift. You know what I mean? Like I like that aspect of burlesque too, that we can shift people's minds just by being who, like you said, being authentic, being who we are on stage. And I think a lot of people have this idea like I had at the beginning, like it only looks one way.

SPEAKER_02: 58:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 58:05

And then if I come out on stage, like I've really I've really owned that more than I used to in the past. I've owned being like, oh, right, yeah, I can really stand in my blackness and be like fully me. And people are gonna, it's gonna trigger something in them and it's gonna shift their thinking. And that's what I want to happen. I want people to be like, oh, yeah, this was this something something I didn't expect, and I like this.

SPEAKER_00: 58:27

And that's the beauty, isn't it? A burlesque of like, you're not gonna go to a show where like um it's typical lineup of like straight white women of a certain shape and size and aesthetic, and there is a time and a place for that. Um, but to be able to challenge people's perspectives and narratives to say, you know, other bodies do exist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Other women exist, you know, men can do this, um, transgender people can do this, gay people can do this. Like it's dis disabled people can do this, like all body people can do this. And the more you expose yourself to seeing all body types and all people from all walks of life, yeah, the much happier you're gonna feel in yourself. And I think that's a really we're gonna say the word impressive. Yeah, right around that. Like, you know, get out there and understand that all bodies are valid, all bodies can be represented on stage and deserve to be, and that we're all just human beings that just want to share art and just kind of step away from that narrative of it has to look a certain way and be a certain type of performer. Um, and I think more shows are leaning into that kind of like I always feel like diversity is the wrong way because it should just always be everything. Yeah, everybody should always be represented the best way we can. Yeah, and it's so good that you recognize that and you own your power on stage and you show up and you show that for other women that maybe like look like you and don't realize that they can do what you do and then see you on stage and they're like it's someone looks like me and has my body shape and like I can be that too. Yeah. That's like a really powerful way to shift people's mindsets, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:19

Mm-hmm. And not just like I can look at that person doing they look like me, I can do burlesque too. It's not even because some people don't want to do burlesque, like you said. They just want to feel seen. Yeah. And I feel like I don't know if you have the same experience, but I've spent spent my whole life just not feeling like I was represented. And so that's really affected my self-confidence throughout my entire life to this day, honestly. I'm like so self-conscious and I don't have the highest self-esteem because I didn't see a lot of people that look like me and represented in a great light. Yeah. And so when people go to a burlesque show and they see someone that represents them somehow, it doesn't have to be the skin color. It could just be hair color, hairstyle, body type, whatever it could be anything. And when they see that on stage and see that person being confident and taking up space, they internalize that and can carry that through regular throughout their day or their life, you know, they don't have to get on stage and do it just to get that, you know, that message or that confidence.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:25

I love burlesque and the art form and I love stepping on stage to inspire others to feel more confident in their own skin. You know, I've always feel like I'm up there being unashamedly sexy or I'm a bit surrounded. Yeah. You know, lumps, bumps and everything. And just by expressing myself in that authentic way, hopefully inspires other women to you know anyone um to express themselves in their full power. You know I want I always say to people like I think everybody should be a stripper once in their life because I want them to understand that when you feel so confident in your own body and your own skin and you really get to grips with that you're like unstoppable. It's like you know negative it's comments about your body just that you just well I'm happy with this. I live in this body and I I'm happy and I own it. And I would love for the art form to be able to share that confident experience with other human beings and be like just you know because we're so taught by the media and society like you say of like everything should be a certain way and we're all taught that something is wrong with our bodies like from oh it's the barrage is just the everyday. More people that wake up and be like you know I'm okay exactly as I am and I am happy exactly as I am and I can love my body exactly as it is then that's like revolutionary kind of life changing things.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:51

So true. It's so true because a lot of people like you said at the beginning a lot of people's uh disdain for something is because they feel uncomfortable they don't feel secure in themselves. Not that we all have to feel 100% secure it's not true. It's not reality but a lot of people are far more insecure and they take it out and project it into other people and that's where the issue I think comes from. Yeah. So I feel like if more people were like you said more confident comfortable in themselves they would change the entire world so much.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:23

How do we change road peace?

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:25

It's so true. It's so true because I've talked to my friends about this all the time like why are there you know men in politics and stuff like that and wars like because they feel insecure.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:37

They feel small so they gotta be bigger like it's it's dumb but it goes like it yeah take away the competition and the threat to um each other and just if you can act to you know every if every human that you meet along your life journey that you can meet that person with love and respect and kindness and understanding like that is a way of just changing your microcosm in the world and if more people did that then that's kind of true.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:09

That's how we change it is and it all comes from how you value yourself how you show up for yourself and then that's how you can move about the world interacting with other people because you're like oh I feel okay about myself so I can give I love myself I can give love to other people like you just have more understanding it's yeah it goes so deep.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:29

Yeah no it's such a like I'm glad you like raised it's like it is so important to and we almost think poo poo like loving yourself as a kind of like self-obsessed like narcissist when it's not meant in that way it's like really love and care for yourself on a basic human you know how do you speak to yourself every day and how do you look after your body every day and do you prioritize your wellbeing and you know do you speak to yourself with love and kindness I always say some of my coaching clients I say to them like if you spoke to your friends like how you spoke to yourself would you have friends like you know I'm laughing because Tito tells me that all the time because I'm the first person to always say that I just hardly say anything positive about myself honestly.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:14

But I know it's in the it's back there. So I it just takes me a while to call it to the forefront but I'm very quick to be like no I was terrible I'm terrible I'm a horrible human being but yeah he says that all the time he's like you can't talk he says you can't talk to my butt about my best friend like that talking to me I'm his best friend we're best friends but he's like you can't talk to my best friend like that I'm like oh you're right it just takes practice doesn't it like filling up your self-love cup to the point that you know it's so overflowing that you can then you know express that with others and I think some of the the best performers that I've seen on stage are people that are just really in that self-love club of like they own who they are they love who they are and that shines on stage that is almost like that magnetic sparkle of being so comfortable with themselves and who they are and how they are in the world um so that magnetic stage presence you just want to be near those people yeah yeah cool is there anything else you would like to add at the end anything you want to cover or um what would be your top go-away tip or oh yeah I don't have a top go-away tip I've just had a lot of fun chatting and hope this leads to far more bigger things it's already big just you know I hope it's a successful journey thank you yeah it's my hope that people's um stories and messages and life experiences within our industry and our community can branch out and inspire others yeah just add a little more sparkle to the world yeah that's what we all want to do.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:01

My takeaway is try a burlesque class go to more shows yes those two things if you learn anything from today's show and love yourself love yourself but thank you so much for coming and like it's such an honor and a pleasure to have you as the first guest to kick the podcast this was special. Thank you so much for showgirl love and hopefully I will see you again soon yes yes hopefully enjoy the ride of being missing the big world for the next year thank you it feels like the year's already over almost thank you thank you for joining us for today's episode of Behind Bernesque I hope you feel inspired and learnt something if you like the podcast make sure you share it with your friends give it a like give it a follow give it a subscribe share it with everybody that you love and even people you don't love we don't mind oh god thank you for joining us on today's episode of Behind Bernes make sure to give us a like a share and join us next time as we have another special guest. See you then