Behind Burlesque with Isabella Bliss

A Happy Accident That Sparked a Movement

• Isabella Bliss

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Glitter can be armour, but it can also be a welcome sign. We sit down with award-winning vintage cabaret performer, producer and self-expression coach Dawn Gracie to explore how a life of sequins, show tunes and quick wit became a force for community, inclusion and joyful ageing. Her route was anything but linear: a childhood spent glued to classic musicals, a karaoke machine that led to a band, and a Goodwood Revival win that opened the door to paid care home shows. From there, Dawn built a career hosting, teaching, and producing cabaret that puts connection above perfection.

We go deep on the craft of hosting as stewardship—reading the room, setting boundaries, keeping performers safe, and turning mishaps into magic. Dawn shares the moments she’ll never forget, from bra-on-the-light chaos to acts that bend reality with humour and heart. Along the way, we touch the roots of variety and vaudeville, the influence of icons like Madonna, and the way drag and burlesque have always made space for people to show up as themselves.

The heart of the conversation is community action. Dawn co-founded Chichester Pride and created Dicky Bows and Petticoats Club, a daytime cabaret for people 65+ designed to tackle isolation with tea, bingo, drag, and burlesque. Tins-for-tickets feed the local food bank; volunteers make it sing. We also face the realities of modern show business: sudden social media bans, rising censorship, and AI deepfakes. Dawn lays out practical strategies—websites, mailing lists, local partners, and kinder backstage practices—that keep artists visible and audiences cared for.

Expect candid lessons for performers and producers, a celebration of absurd brilliance alongside classic glamour, and a clear message: art is activism when it builds safety, laughter and belonging. If you care about cabaret, community and keeping stages open to everyone, press play, subscribe, and leave a review to help more people find the show. What story resonated with you most?


This episode is sponsored by our amazing lead sponsor Crystal Parade a one stop place for all your gorgeous crystals and sparkles for costumes and beyond.

 https://crystalparade.co.uk/

Our Second sponsor is the fabulous Lindsay McGlone your go to I.G expert 

https://lindsaymcglone.co.uk/

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🎙️ Behind Burlesque — Hosted by Isabella Bliss

Pulling back the curtain on life behind the glamour.


✨ Real stories. Raw courage. The sparkle beneath the spotlight.

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SPEAKER_02:

It's not just feathers and fishnets. Welcome to the real world behind the sparkle. I'm Isabella Bliss, international performer, Marilyn Monroe Tribute, coach, and lifelong lover of sequins and storytelling. Each month I sit down with performers, producers, creatives and the beautiful misfits shaping our world. We talk career highlights, backstage lows, body image, empowerment, and everything in between. If you're a performer, a fan, or just curious about what really happens behind the curtain, you're in the right place. Hit the follow for your monthly dose of truth, tassels, and behind the scenes brilliance. Today I'm joined by Dawn Gracie, award-winning vintage cabaret performer, event producer and self-expression coach. After years working in media training, business networking, Dawn discovered this world at 40, and she says it was the moment her whole life finally made sense. She now splits her time between performing as a vintage singer and producing cabaret shows for her own club, plus venues and private clients. And also, she is a true community power. Co-founder and production manager of Chichester Pride and the creator of a not-for-profit project bringing the magic of cabaret to older people, giving them a taste of the nighttime world in the middle of the day. She's a loyal collaborator, brilliant people herder. Please welcome the fabulous Dawn Gracie.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for such a wonderful introduction. It's almost like I wrote it myself.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you, Dawn, so much for coming and being on Behind Burlesque.

SPEAKER_01:

It's a pleasure to have you here. Thank you for having me. I've been watching your podcast. I think you're doing a brilliant thing. So thank you very much for having me here.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, it's exciting, and I'm excited for everybody to hear your story because it's unique, it's different, and what you do in the community is so important. So, yeah, I'm excited for you to share your knowledge and all that you do with our listeners. Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

It's really nice because obviously we've met so many times at shows behind the scenes while I'm producing and chaos. So it's nice to actually sit down and have a casual chat. It's almost like there's cameras watching.

SPEAKER_02:

So let's dive in with some questions. How did you first discover burlesque and what pulled you in enough to actually try it?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my god, well, it was an it was actually an accident, as is most of my career. Um a happy accident, really. Uh, I was, again, I don't know how far back to go. I think I might need to read a book because these questions that you've you've been asking people in podcasts have made me really think about how did that happen? It's all just been a series of fortunate events happening. Um, so I won't go right back to when I was born in 2000, 100 years ago. Um, but really actual burlesque, I realised that I'd always enjoyed it and never knew what it was called or what it was about. Because I grew up loving uh all the old-fashioned films. I grew up in Germany, so I would only come to the UK at holidays like Christmases and summers. Um, and so therefore watching all the big films at Christmas on TV, that's the only sort of English TV uh films that I saw. So, you know, I remember The Wizard of Oz, all the all and Hello Dolly, and just being absolutely transfixed, A by watching TV, um, and B by what I was seeing, because of course my grandparents were watching all these things, and I just grew up loving it. Um, and I was one of those children, I was one of those children who would make my parents sit and watch me dance. Oh, um I don't know why. Uh we moved around a lot, and so one of my earliest costumes I remember was uh uh net curtains. In the army, you have neck curtains, everyone has net curtains, and so there'd be all these net curtains when we were moving, and I would wrap myself in these curtains because at Christmas I'd seen come dancing. You're too young to remember that, but it was the it was the OG, strictly come dancing, but all these dresses and smoothie things, and I'd wrap myself in costumes that were just over the top and make my parents watch me dance and make up routines and things like that. So I always loved what I was you say burast, I say cabaret, the whole sort of um entire thing. So I think I grew up naturally a cabaret performer from being a child. I I mean, uh yeah, so but scooching forward to what actually happened when I became this to be my career. Um I was I had been in a a band. I had a very normal day job. I worked in media, advertising sales, franchising and recruitment. So it was a very much an office job. Um, and I moved to uh sunny Chichester from Brighton and um contacted a uh an antique dealer locally because we had this all this sort of dark wood furniture in this house we bought, and I contacted him to say, would you like to have some of this stuff? Because we don't need it. This man came around and saw that I had a karaoke machine and said, Are you a singer? And I said, No. I've got a karaoke machine. He said, Oh, I've got a band, we're looking for uh a backing singer. I mean, there was no audition. I turned up and I was in that band basically. And I did six years in that band and then learnt a lot of stagecraft. When you were when you're in a working pub band, we thought we were, we thought we were so rock and roll. Um we really were. Um and then the big you've probably heard of the Goodwood revival. Yeah. Yeah. Um huge, for those of you who don't know it, it's a huge car festival that has a whole vintage shopping and lifestyle and performance aspect to it. So when I moved to Chichester, that's the home of it. So I went along, and then in 2011, I won the best dress. And there's 40,000 people that go each day, so it's a huge thing. And uh and I was completely blown away because it it allowed me to wear all the things I didn't get to wear that I collected and win the best dressed. And then a friend of mine who used to run a nursing home contacted me saying, Don, she'd seen the band a few times. She said, Would you come and perform in the nursing home to show what you'd been wearing to win this award? And I was like, Okay. She said, if you do it for an hour, I can pay you. I was like, is that a job? Is that something that people do? I had no idea. So, long story short, I got a set together of all the music I loved, not what we did in the band, so 50s and 60s. And I went along, swooshed my skirt, performed, got paid, and then within three months I day gave up my day job and did that full time. And then it was a few months into that that I thought, I want to learn to be more this. I want to be more, I want to be more pin-up. And of course, I'd heard of the Eaton on Tees. So I thought, well, she does burlesque. I'll go and find a burlesque class in Chichester. And chance had it. I found one. And uh, this is a very long answer to one question, by the way. Uh, and uh, I found this class, and it I didn't even tell my husband I was going. I said, I'm going to Zumba. He didn't believe that at all, because why would I do Zumba? Um, and I went along to this class, and it was very much here's some gloves, here's a boa, and you know, nothing, no pasties or anything like that. It was just sort of about movement. I hadn't even finished that class when I was already planning my logo and my launch event to start teaching this because in my life in media I had taught salespeople, I went networking, I taught people how to um own a room, how to command people in sales. So I kind of saw it as the same thing, but just with less close. Yeah, yeah. So uh yeah, that's what I did. And that that first class I did, I remember there was a mother and daughter that were there, and they were really nervous. And I just naturally gravitated towards helping them to feel comfortable. The teacher hadn't spotted it, she probably would have done it had she, but I did, and I realized that, oh my god, I love this. I didn't really know much about the extended, but I suddenly felt, oh, this is it. So with the performance side of it, the teaching side of it, um, the connection, the empowerment, the teaching people self-expression, it all came to pass. And I launched my classes without having ever pinned to a show. I was one of those. I was one of those. I'm so sorry. But to me, it was all just feeling feminine and fabulous. Um, and then I started to go to shows. I took my students to some shows at Portsmouth King's Theatre. Joe Black was doing these huge um theatre shows, and we'd start going to the Brighton ones, and and I was like, oh, and then I wasn't thinking about starting shows at all until a local business contacted me in Chichester saying, we want to raise some money for Coco's Foundation. Do you think you could put on a burlesque show and we could run some raffles? I was like, in Chichester. I don't I don't know whether Chichester's ready for this, which of course was a huge green flag, say let's do it anyway. And then I yeah, I put on uh a show, we raised lots of money, and then my students were like, Well, we want to perform again. And then I started to hire people who I'd seen at other shows, and then that was 2013, and I haven't stopped. The only thing that stopped me was the pandemic, but we went online, yeah, started doing shows, and uh yeah, so that's kind of it was an all a kind of happy accident, but I still to this day still sing in care homes um and still still produce shows. But yeah, I was one of those people that started teaching without having ever been to a show, but now I've had all of these years from standing in the sidelines, which is the best place you could be when you're at a show, watching performers, learning. I know you do that as well. You're you're you're a curtain twitcher that say you know, you're an experienced performer, but you still you can never stop learning, you're constantly watching other people and different styles. So my teachings, I still teach, has evolved, and it's far more about teaching self-expression and being comfortable with yourself. I I think at in all the what 12 years of teaching, I think I've had three students to go on to be performers, but most of them are people who just want to come and have a taste. They've been to a show, they don't want to perform, they just want to feel what it feels like. For sure.

SPEAKER_02:

And yeah, it's important, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

Like so important.

SPEAKER_02:

We I spoke with um Alexander in the last episode of like some people want to learn burlesque because they want to be performers, and some people want to b learn burlesque because they want to have that freedom of self-expression, and neither is wrong. Exactly. It's a beautiful art form that's can celebrate both parts.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. And I kind of so when people say to me, uh, if they call me a burlesque performer, I mean I am, but I'm the host. I still class that as burlesque, and trust me, I have I wondered if you were gonna ask me whether I had ever done striptease myself. Um, I have in the early days because I believe in teaching through living, and I wanted to know how that part felt. But my skills definitely lie better in guiding and and producing cabaret shows, because as you know, it's a multidiscipline of a million things all in one, being my background in business and people herding and admin stuff. Um, so but I think that the beauty in this whole thing is in being in burlesque in cabaret, is every time I produce a show, I'm holding all of these people up that I've booked and saying, everyone, look at this. Look at this. Holding people up, putting crowns on other people's heads is the most powerful thing.

SPEAKER_02:

And that's the beautiful dynamic of being a host, isn't it? And I've done both. So I've worked as a burlesque performer and hosted, and there is something yet so magical about holding that space to champion each person that's coming on to me today.

SPEAKER_01:

I absolutely love it, and that's why you know, writing bios and uh again just communicating with performers from all over the world. I mean, I I I couldn't possibly count how many performers I've brought to shows, um, but every single person brings something different, and there's there's very few industries you can work in that does that. And aren't you always amazed about when you go to do shows in theatres, for instance, people who work in a theatre are always really shocked at how how does that happen here? These performers who've usually never met each other, will come together and in the space of an afternoon put run through their stuff and do a show. It's mind-bobbling how it works.

SPEAKER_02:

It's one of the only industries, I think, in the world where that happens, isn't it? And we were talking about this before as well about you know, it we don't always get rehearsals on shows. It is literally like the pure creativeness and the um resilience and the flexibility of the performing artists, how we all just kind of get together and like you say, put on a show because we want people to have a nice time and deliver that experience.

SPEAKER_01:

And we're all elements that bring one thing together, and that's and what I love about that is the fact that anything can happen. I so dislike that. I like it's cabaret, anything can happen. And this goes back to usually does it usually does. My childhood, again, of only really watching TV when it was Christmas and there was Christmas specials on, and I grew up just loving the generation game, which Bruce Forsyth, uh Larry Grayson, who uh it was a very male-dominated host, which again that's another story. Um, but they're they were cabaret artists, they were connecting with other humans who aren't performers and seeing what happened, and that ability, like like you do with your your shows, the ability to roll with what's gonna happen that's out of your control. And there's some people who perhaps in theatre or other disciplines who just can't just don't work like that. But cabaret artists and burlesque artists, you know, when the costume doesn't come off properly or something gets stuck, we roll with it, and audiences love it.

SPEAKER_02:

I think they actually really enjoy when something goes wrong. There's a magic in that because it punctuates that this is real, yeah, this is live, this isn't recorded TV, it's not perfectionism, it's real life and real art.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And that's what's so magical about the cabaret.

SPEAKER_01:

I love it when a performer is a real flinger. We had one recently, we had one recently, and she bra stuck on the ceiling lights. Everyone was the audience were howling and she was rolling into it. She wasn't getting stressed, she was making a point of the fact that who's gonna get this? I love I love the anarchy and the the rebellious aspect of cabaret and burlesque because anything can happen. And as a producer, I shouldn't say that because I want everything to work perfectly, but the bits that should go awry, let them, and just and and the audience last for what they do.

SPEAKER_02:

And that's what's the spirit of I find sometimes with burlesque and cabaret, the rebelliousness of the art form is it's always that cheekiness, the the fun, the playfulness. It's never you know meant to be perfect, it's rebellious, it's spirited, and uh the artists that you know we get to share the stage with really embody that so much.

SPEAKER_01:

I think the big thing about cabaret is connection with the audience. Um they talk about you know that walls that are there in theatre, but in cabaret there are no walls.

SPEAKER_02:

And no boundaries.

SPEAKER_01:

No boundaries, you know. Um and I sometimes get you into trouble because again, people who don't realise what they're coming to and they're like, oh goodness, uh but you know what? I I think I think of as the host, I get to come on and uh set the scene, get comfortable with the audience. You know, as the host, you get the time to get to know people and get to get the vibe of the room and know where there could be potential trouble, um, and keeping the performers safe from people that might be, you know. So it is you you're curating and looking after this whole thing. But less performers can have you know four and a half up to six minutes of to come on and and do that all in that short period of time. Connect, smile, do that, act, be fabulous, and get the applause. And it's so I'm in awe of performers that because you you don't have that long to get all of that.

SPEAKER_02:

So yeah. It's a different style, isn't it? I always find like with burlesque, and I'd say to people when I'm teaching or coaching, it's like you have that first maybe 10, 20 seconds when you hit that stage that you need to kind of win that audience over with with purpose and intention of what you're doing. Yes. And really set the scene for who you are as a performer and where you're at is to go. And you can surprise them along the way. Yes. But you like you say, you have such a shorter space of time to win your audience over.

SPEAKER_01:

Definitely, and you know, as the host, you're sort of you're setting the rules as you go on as well. So if you do come out, I'm I've got so many examples of things that have not gone to plan that you then have to turn things around. Because it's your responsibility that when the performer comes out, there's a certain degree of expectation that you and you're sort of creating a story to introduce. And uh, but then as the host, the first time you hit the ground, um, you know, there was You're going in dry, aren't you? And uh when a show was one of my sort of uh r show runs uh was booked, and uh a corporate client booked the entire show, we'd like this for our Christmas party. Like, excellent. The agents obviously told them what this is, because the word burlesque is quite big. And uh yeah, I go out, first thing I do is drop the F-bomb in a song, and you can you know when it's not behaving in a good way, exactly, and you see people like oh, and you see the fear, yeah, and then you have to sort of um so when the song's over, try and work out is that fear because they really don't want to be here, or is that fear because they're kind of exhilarated and it's my job to take them on that thrill where no, it was the first one, sadly, but uh yeah challenging shows uh is something, but again, that's the as the job as the host and the producer to make sure that that's you have to be so versatile as a host, though, don't you?

SPEAKER_02:

To really be able to read the room, see where the energy is going, yes, write that wave, and and especially like as a job and a responsibility as host, every act you bring on has a different energy. You're kind of you're talking with the audience and interacting with them and also being mindful of like okay, what energy does that act have? Um, how do I need to you know change the nuance of the space so it's ready for them? What do I need to prepare them?

SPEAKER_01:

And it's a difficult balance in it. It is, especially when performers don't give you any kind of bio, or they there's a sudden a surprise in there, like some random pyrotechnic, like, well, why did it tell me about this? So, you know, as you're hosting and then you're you've got your producer mind and your risk assessment mind on and your insurance mind going on, you see someone to the side with a a cannon ready, like, oh that's gonna be so yeah, a million things are going through your through your head at the same time. But you you must have that with your with your Marilyn shows as well when you're interacting with um I say humans, you know, audience now.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's so like there's so much of Marilyn, the Marilyn show that I do, there's certain bits that are scripted, but that I thoroughly enjoy the kind of free ad-libbing bits where it's the audience interaction or I'm getting people on stage because I don't know what they're gonna do or say half the time. I mean, it's that's the exciting bit for me the how you respond and deal with that in real time and make it fun and engaging for the audience.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. And as long as they're as long as I mean, what I learned from my early years of watching The Generation Day, Bruce, Bruce Forsyth and Larry Grayson. If anyone out there is watching this blogger knows who I think, sure. Um a lot of that is they were taking these everyday people and uh getting them to do you know, I think flottering wheels or something. But the the the end of the day, the joke's always on the host, essentially. Never laughing at people unless you make that judgment in that moment that they're fine to be in on it. So it's a real it's a it's it is a it's a skill and a craft, even though I shall say it myself, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think people forget like those TV stars that we will remember of the 70s and 80s of the generation game and those kind of shows, they came up through Cabaret and Vaudeville for I think. Yeah, that was where they honed those skills. It was just the first time it was starting to be presented on national TV.

SPEAKER_01:

Definitely. And uh you can see lots, you know, through the well, through all all of time, uh it was always very male dominated, I will say. Um and uh when I when I got to about 12 years old when Madonna first came to this to the world in the UK, I was like my eyes were completely opened. I was like, having watched lots of sort of male dominated TV and rebels on TV that were mostly men, but as far as I was seeing, Madonna came to the front. And people say to me, Who's your inspiration in in the cabaret? Madonna might sound like a really strange challenge. Choice, but she really was because she was a chameleon. She was the first sort of person to come out of my generation and be a chameleon of her art and a true rebel and a shapeshifter and anything she wanted to be, and completely unapologetic with it. And that to me, at that tender age, was like, I mean, she caused me a lot of trouble because I did get up to a lot of no good. I was like, I it was kind of like girl power. And I still got the cone bra, but uh she she gave permissions for women to be, I mean, you know, at that age, what was I that I was quite young, but you know, let's let's just get a bit slutty. Do you know what I mean? I was like, hell yeah, let's do that. So she's kind of quite an inspiration for my younger Dawn, and then watching how she just navigated all even back then in the 80s, the criticism, uh, the the the body shaming and the the voice shaming and all this sort of stuff, and she basically navigated it, game didn't give a damn about it and carried, or she probably did, but just carried on, and I mean, you know, look what happened, you know, she is still still to work. She was such an inspiration, of course. You know, in the the late 80s when the whole um the AIDS subject came up, she was a real um sort of uh ally, the first sort of real visible ally that stood up and said, These are my friends. Yeah, you know, we need so yeah, but she shaped a lot of young Dawn.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Do you uh you I I think I know the answer to this question. I'm gonna ask it anyway. Do you perform under a stage name? Is that Dawn is your real name?

SPEAKER_01:

I do people say, What's what's your name? Dawn Gracie is is my name, although um I did you go here with us? Oh, you did, I did, and I am yes, I did. My uh well, what what should I call my my burlesque school, even though I'd never been to a show. And Starlet, because of course the whole Hollywood Starlet that really thing to me, Starlet Days, D-A-Z-E. So I put your p people's head in a spit. So I've okay. I was Starlet Days School of Burlesque for quite some time, and occasionally I have reason to use that name. Uh occasionally, occasionally, um, but no, Dawn Gracie. I mean, my my maiden name was Dawn Butler, uh, which you it's hard to say, but I married a Gracie, so it's Dawn Gracie, and people do still do say, what's your real no, that is my name. A funny thing happened at a show when um talking about your own persona as a cabaret artist. Um, I one of a brilliant troll emails I had, which I use in my show, is um they'd been to a cabaret club and I got this email from this Steve. If you're out there, Steve, call me. Uh I'd say, uh, terrible show, it was the worst show I've ever seen. I was there scouting for drag queens for New York. I'm thinking, you wouldn't be in Chichester, and I don't think so. And he said, and the worst performer was you. You you didn't know your character and you kept forgetting your words. I'm like, dear Steve, you don't understand. I mean, he didn't exist because he said he was from this agency who I called, and they said, No, I'm calling Steve the word. And sorry, but they wouldn't become a shit just had to do that. Um, and so it was a complete draw. But what made me laugh about that is that um I don't have a character. I I'm no such I'm me just a bit more sweary and a bit more sort of um risk-taking because it's a cabaret, you know, and you can sort of push it. But no, there there is this is this is what it is. So whether I'm singing in a care home, I'm less sweary in care homes, um, or uh hosting a cabaret show. This is you. It is me. I would be finding really hard. I don't know how how you do this adopting uh Marilyn. You are her. It's crazy. Um so yeah, that is really made it made me laugh. You kept forgetting your lines. People think that's really funny. When you don't know any of the words to anything. Anyway, and I'm standing by that.

SPEAKER_02:

Stand and that's uh I was standing by that rule. I thought it's as you just explained to people at home like where you're from, Chichester, where you create your shows and stuff, is such a beautiful little English town, isn't it? It flick. It's a city, actually. Oh, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

A city we've got the cathedral and everything. And it's the smallest city in West Sussex or Sussex. Um but I moved there in 2004. I lived in Brighton for 15 years, where I you know, everyone who lives in Brighton thinks that Brighton is literally the only place to live. And then we had to move because of my husband's job. Um, and I was like, Chicha stop, it's so cute. Where is it? It's past worthing. Where is it? Um and yeah, we landed there not knowing anyone. Um and so yeah, only a couple of years after that was when that opportunity came to join the band.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And then that kind of I don't know whether if that hadn't happened. Would you be here? Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

It's interesting when you can look back retrospectively and be like, I thought it didn't happen. Oh, would I because the same, like, if I hadn't have seen an evening of burlesque at my local theatre, that was literally the tipping point where I went, I'm in. You here it is, I'm in, I'm sold. That is me. Off I go. And so, yeah, if I hadn't seen that show at that point in my life, would I be the person that I am now?

SPEAKER_01:

That's crazy to think. Where would I be?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know because for the magazine, it was a parenting magazine. My children were getting older, and um, I never forget when I left my boss, who again she owned this magazine and sold franchises, and I um got the franchises on board. I'd learnt so much about business. So, you know, burlesque or cabaret being an artist, you have to know about business as well. People forget that, though. People do forget that. It is a business. Um, so having a good grounding in business and business networking, um, and then going into this is like you need to treat it like it's a business.

SPEAKER_02:

I think that's a testament to how successful you have been with your shows and art, like because you came at it from a business mind and a business angle, and you applied everything, your skills and knowledge, and transferred them to this colourful industry. Yeah. And that's how you've created this beautiful space in the community. I mean, you've employed so many performers over the years. I've been lucky enough to be on your show.

SPEAKER_01:

I know, you've been on some cracking ones, haven't you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, let's talk about, you know, this is something that I think is really magical that you do, and I was honoured to be on your show a few weeks ago. So the Dicky Bows and Petticoats Club, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Please explain to everybody at home this farming adorable. Oh, God, okay, so I get a bit emotional. It's crazy. Um, so all the years that I was working as a and still do as a vintage singer in care homes and for uh dementia um wards and things like that, which still is the case. Yes, yes, they're just mini cabarets. Yeah. They're mini cabarets um with different challenges. That's all they are. Um uh what was the question? Dicky voice. This is menopause, by the way. Hello, welcome to my tech talk about menopause when you're talking. This is cabaret, making it up as you go along. Um, the Dicky Bows. The Dicky Bows Petco. God, talk about living my audience here. Completely are you forgetting my train of thought? What did Sue say? Oh honestly, when I first started this industry, I was teaching burlesque people who were going through perimenopause and uh with you know ectar belly back there and brain fog, and I wasn't there yet, but uh but now I'm living that I can really relate to people who have a train of thought. Anyway, Dicky Bows and Petty Clothes Club. Years of working um as a vintage singer in care homes and for hospices and things, years of working in cabaret, and then during lockdown, uh I gave a lot of my time, because we all had lots of time, to being beamed into people's homes by a dementia support charity. Yes, I was so people who were caring for people living with dementia. So I was doing mini cabarets to people from home, to people in their homes. And I came out of lockdown thinking, I really want to still do that. So I launched something called the Vintage Supper Club, which was basically going to be 5 till 8 pm, so not late evening. Um, we'd give them fish and chip supper, and people, the same sort of people could come along, bring their loved ones, or come by themselves if they needed a bit of a break, um, and just have a few hours of fun and games. I launched that, and I it was it there was something not quite right about it. The time of day. If you've travelled round Chichester at that time of day, you'll know that you know 27 is not fun between those hours. Um, and it it just wasn't right because I was the only entertainer, so I was doing my vintage thing with a bit of cheek and a few costume changes, um, fish and chip supper, and it was all really lovely and they loved it. Um, but it wasn't right. So I I stopped it and sat back a little bit, and then I thought, what about if I make it during the day? And then uh they were telling me that you know they loved watching my online cabaret shows. I'm like, you cheeky devils, you were watching that as well. Um, and so I said, Well, I could hire some cabaret before. So basically a daytime cabaret for people who don't want to go out in the evenings, but specifically um addressing isolation and loneliness, which in oh my god, in 2014, I was on a I was on a uh radio show, and our our local MP happened to be on that show at the same time, and she was talking about isolation and loneliness in the older generation in Chichita because we have a huge population there, and I was thinking, hmm, that it stuck with me ever since then, and so uh the point of Dicky Bows and Petticoats Club is that it it goes out to people who are on their own, they're a widow, um, or they have someone. I thought at first it would also be for people living with dementia, but it's it's evolved not to be that because as you know, it gets w it gets dark when performers are on, it's quite noisy, it's quite confusing, we do bingo, there's lots of chaos. So it's evolved so that it's not for those people, it's the people who are caring for, or they are widows or widowers, or groups of people or couples who've just moved to the area. So it's it's addressing this need. Combating isolation and loneliness sounds really like sad. It's basically putting joy into growing old.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You have to be 65 and above to come. You're not allowed to be younger. Oh not allowed to be younger, 65 or above. ID them on the way. I'm sorry. Uh can I see your ID? Um, so yes, and that's been that's been going for two years this month. And it it I set it up as a community group. Um, why didn't I attach it as part of my business? Because I wanted uh this sounds quite harsh, but I wanted it to have more leverage from being uh a not-for-profit, so it spreads the word more. If it was a commercial enterprise, I'd be making money out of it. More people will be making money out of it, and that isn't the point. So I volunteer, and a lot of the people that started coming to my vintage supper club in the early days now do the volunteering at this because they come a great team. About 25 volunteers, um, and they all come along and they put the pennies on. I know there's something like um, is it the posh club in London that's been going for a long, long, long time, a similar, similar thing, but they have a much bigger venue. Um, so yeah, the volunteers wear pennies, we serve them uh afternoon tea, do a bit of bingo, and we have a burlesque performer and a drag performer or a circus performer. Um, and it you have to be there at 11am as a performer. That's quite an ask, isn't it? So performers don't like morning. I know, I know. Some of you say to uh, especially drag performers, they're like, I have to be in face by 11am. I know. Well, those that jump on board get it. Some performers um also work in care or have um elderly relatives totally, totally get it. And uh each month we have our guests, we say a tin for a ticket. You know, the oldies, they love a raffle. So they bring a tin, we give them a raffle ticket, and then we do a raffle, and all those tins go to the local food bank. And uh I got a letter yesterday actually about how much we've raised, they weigh it by kilograms of food that we've how many 788 meals or something. So again, it's just a little thing of giving back via Cakaray and burlesque. And some of these people who've never seen, I mean, your martini glass. I think they're gonna be talking about that for years. Years, and the Freemasons Hoover has never been the same again. Yes, and it's also um extra to that. Sorry, I could talk all day about this, but um, we obviously uh bring along um LGBTQ plus performers to that. And the I love it when the drag queens will address, you know, so who are the straights in the room? And of course, even that question to a group of people in their 90s are like that they've never been asked that sort of question. That subject to that age group I find fascinating. Yeah. And I've had some shall I say, some people coming out to me elderly people who didn't know that there was a space for that. So I know. So it's serving such a I'm so glad you've been as well. Oh god, I'm throwing the notes.

SPEAKER_02:

Chaos on the show. Excitement of habare and ball there, excitement, and now I've gone A-worm, throwing it everywhere. Um yeah, no, I was really grateful that you asked me, and the same as yourself. Like I've performed in care homes, and I think there is that viewpoint that we think that when people get to a certain age, they no longer enjoy life. Oh expression of naughtiness and curiosity. Like we think of them as these dear little old people. It's like they're not, they're human beings that still enjoy life and we are once.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep, they say probably did way more than we trustably they did. I hear the stories now. When I go to care homes and sing my 50s and 60s set, I will often, as you've probably heard, you know, get like, oh you look just like my mum. And I think in well, you're in your 80s, so I'm assuming you mean when she was younger. Um or I get stories of like, oh, we sort of love the, you know, the petticoats like that. But they go well or stockings like that. Yeah, or seams all the way up the back. But when you put burlesque and cabaret in front of them, the conversation is different. Yeah, and they become those that want to become more sort of open and free and sort of. I mean, some of our 90-year-olds, they're the ones that requested the naked butlers. Yeah, we had butless. Yeah, just doing butlers in the bath. Uh they they I mean, I haven't personally done that at my other cabaret shows, but we give the people what they want. Yeah, and if they want if they want butlers, bums, that's what they get. So it's allowing it's allowing people of all ages, um, 18 over, to have the opportunity to see that. Because where else would they see that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, and obviously the the cabaret club, the cabaret clubs that I run and the other shows, my show girls, their evening, there's lots of people drinking, people don't like to be out at night. And believe it or not, there are still people, I say, of an age in their 80s who have not gone out since lockdown.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh bless.

SPEAKER_01:

Because they're still afraid. Because you know, that that fear that was put into all of us during lockdown, we all experienced isolation. All of us now. Every single person in the world experienced isolation, so we can have a little flavour of what that's like. Yeah, but people over a certain age also felt the fear, yeah, and they watched loved ones die. So there are still communities out there, and I'm still working on those to get them to come out in the daytime in a comfortable It's so wonderful that you provide that space for them.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. It's a real, you know, so you should be really proud of.

SPEAKER_01:

I am, I am. I'm proud of all of volunteers because they all give their time uh willingly, and it's all for a a common purpose. We've got a couple of um I've just redone actually uh a complete rethink on as you know when you need sponsors for something. I I sat back and had a really good think about my sponsor pack because it was time for them to renew. And so I've now called it um a supporter and community partner because it's so much more than just a sponsor. Yeah. So the people who are partnering with us, they want to also get the message out about why we're doing it. They don't just want to just lay some cash on the card on the table to have the logo, they want to push the movement of um of growing old joyfully, because you know, we're all gonna do it, let's face it. And I can't wait for the day when I'm in a care home and someone's got to come in, the entertainers, and I will request the prodigy. I will request the starting spy, the prodigy and um you know, a little bit of ed shearing on the side, you know. So, because I'm doing 50s and 60s. So, what happens when we get to 80? What we got to hear?

SPEAKER_02:

I'd like to think I'll still be tassel twirling, whirling to my chair. Yeah, I aspire to that level of um sass and defiance. You know, we were really lucky to have Joe um good time with the Joe Joe.

SPEAKER_01:

Brilliant, yes, brilliant podcast. If you haven't seen that podcast, go and watch that podcast, it's so good.

SPEAKER_02:

Our British burlesque legend that is tasseled twirling well into her 60s and owning it, and it's really important that we honour that and definitely and what a pleasure to be able to ask someone who was, you know, doing it in a different generation.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So we if we asked ourselves now, in 20, 30 years, what will burlesque and cabaret look like? And we can't, I'd like to think we've still got a lot of the foundation, but where's it gonna be?

SPEAKER_02:

Growing and evolving, isn't it? I think as an art form, like it it grows and evolves with the trends and the cultures, but it's burlesque and cabaret at the Borderville, I think, is always at that forefront of the movement because we challenge political stereotypes of the time. Not always, but sometimes in the art form it does. And so it's always on the forefront of pushing the boundaries and making life more inclusive and more open and more expressive.

SPEAKER_01:

100%, and you know, that's where the foundations of burlesque came from and what it's all about. And I love the fact that we've we still have the foundations and the basics, and it does burlesque does go through trends. You know, we all had the frilly pant era. Um we've all been there, we've all been there. The frilly pant era, um, the tiny hat era, you know, the it has it has its trends, but uh the the acts that I love to book are um I love, I mean, don't get me wrong, I love, I mean, Bert and you, I mean, will be one of my remain one of my favourites of all time. You know, the the ultra glamorous but with a twist to it. I just love that. Um, classic showgirls, absolutely adore that. Um, but also one act that my uh cabaret clubs still talk about is uh a performer called Courtina Ford, who came and she was a kebab. She was a kebab, and this sort of costume that was as she turned around with the sort of like the elevator music and strips of sparkly meat came off. Uh I just love that. I just love the crazy. Um I remember very, very early days of going to see a show and seeing, I don't know who she is, and to this day I've no idea who she was. She might have been from another country actually, because it was a festival. And she walked on as a fish with the fish tail attached to her um wrist. She walked on and she did the dance, she did the strip tees, and ended up uh getting into this huge tin that had a lemon squeezing thing in it, squeezed the lemon on herself, and then got in the can, and then the stage manager came and rolled the tea, so it shut her in the can. I'm like, that's crazy, and I love it. I love it. And I love drag as well, which again, do are we classing drag as cabaret? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02:

I think it was interesting because I was doing some more googling and research this morning because I'm always curious to learn about how they're all intertwined, and I think they very much are. And yeah, I think bur um drag has been an integral part of burlesque. Yeah, um you know, from the get-go, you know, because drag performers are parodying so much of political life, and early drag perhaps parodied the uh stereotypical expectations placed upon women. Yes. Um and cabaret and burlesque and vaudeville was one of the rare spaces in society where um people that were gay in a time where it you would get arrested for it, um or or had a different expression could perform safely and enjoy. Enjoy it and express themselves. Make it theatre.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and if you make theatre, I was okay. Reveal yourself, but make it theatre, and it's it's it's people all hate to come and watch that. Yeah. I think drag's incredible because it it's evolved so much. I mean, even in the 10, 13 years I've been in this industry, it's evolved so much. And you know the drag kings, drag things, you know, drag que or the whole so it's like burlesque in a lot of ways where there's no rule. There's there's no rules at all. And I was having this conversation with someone, um, and uh the conversation about um, you know, AFAB drag queens, so females doing drag queen. As I said, well, what makes me not a drain then? You know, uh obviously this is a very this is a very day wear outfit uh at the moment, but you know, what what's the definition? And the answer was whatever you want to call yourself, that's what you are. So if you want to call yourself that, that's what you are. So um, yeah, I just I just adore this whole the whole shebang of variety, vaudeville variety, yeah, and everything that goes with it.

SPEAKER_02:

It's brilliant. It's a real honour and a privilege to be part of that colour in our lives and to share that with other people.

SPEAKER_01:

Totally. And doing this, uh being invited to do this made me really think. I need I think I need to write a book because when I really delved deep into my why did this happen and how did I get here, I was thinking about well, it's the first time I think I might have ever gone wow at something that really impacted. It was 1981. It was 1981, or it could have been 1982. Box fizz on the Eurovision. So I practised that. I was way too young to be doing that, but I practice how to whip off a system. So yeah, but it's the whole theatrics of it, isn't it? It's the whole theatrics of it and making people watch it.

SPEAKER_02:

And not taking life too seriously. I think the element of burlesque and cabaret and variety is that pure joy of like, let's not take life too seriously. None of us get out of real life, kids, so let's just have fun and be colourful and expressive along the way and definitely in life.

SPEAKER_01:

Definitely. And also, um, when I first entered this world accidentally, I was touching 40. Now I'm over 50. It's really interesting, the evolution of uh acceptance of all ages and all sizes in this industry. Um, and as I I made up a word the other day, I think I did menolesque, because I touched a menolesque because it's it's an age thing. The menopause has become such a um, you know, uh obviously what happens, it's natural evolution. And your body will change, your train of thought will change, as we've exhibited today, um, and all sorts of things change. My ability to jogg a million things in my 30s was top of its game. Now things are harder, so you have to learn to adjust and and adapt and uh get help and support. Well, um, and possibly uh with losing my social media this are we talking, are we allowed to if you want to?

SPEAKER_02:

I didn't want to like because it's we had the most it's entirely up to you you would like to discuss.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Um I mean, what the hell? What what how can it get much worse? I accidentally I have had Facebook account and Instagram account for 14 years that literally suddenly disappeared. And there is nothing you can do about it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

There is, but if you're prepared to do what you but uh you have there's there's no nothing you can do about it. My whole business was built, all my performers live on Instagram, my customers live on Facebook. So overnight it disappeared. That was the biggest challenge I've ever had in business. Um and it felt like the world had completely crumbled. What was I going to do? I was literally considering just just giving up completely. What's what is the point if you can't reach your customers and you can't reach your performers? So I sat back about on it, and I still have, because it was only uh a few months ago that it happened. Um so, which is why my burlesque name uh can be found in places. Um, but you know what, you know it currently in the news, this is very, very topical about the uh the AI removing people's clothes and all the impact it's having on the acting industry and all that sort of thing. When you get banned for something that you definitely didn't do, yeah, nowadays someone can make it look like it's happened.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. So it's the censorship that we face, isn't it? And it's the irony and the infuriation of like burlesque has always fought against censorship. You know, the whole point we got nipple tassels was because it was like censored, you know, you can't be bare-breasted and they were like, you have to have your nipple covered. So it's like, okay, we'll put sparkles on it and draw attention to it. And you you know, all of us that produce shows, promote shows, are trying to reach our target audience, have to use social media because it's how we connect in the modern world, and the power that they have and the control over the censorship that I'm seeing on social media of yes, we need to make the internet a safe place for children. Yes, but the level of censorship that's now going on is it's become a space where expression is being censored like completely.

SPEAKER_01:

We are in a world where we have given so much control to very few people. Yeah, okay. And we are in a dangerous space, and I'd I'd heard things had been happening, but when it happens to you, you're suddenly like, oh, what? I thought my world was ending when it happened to me. Yeah. And and but now you uh I'm not sure if you're keeping up with it, but the whole sex worker industry is being absolutely attacked. Um, and LGBTQ plus spaces are being attacked. We have given, I don't know whether it's going to affect your your whether algorithms are gonna pick up this conversation. So you might want to consider not using it. I don't know, but um let's just say don't put all of your eggs in a digital basket. You know, um, I am all about retro as well and the throwback. So I have gone back to old-fashioned ways of communicating with people, and actually it's rather personal. And losing my personal account or my my account on Facebook meant that it was at the time when all that uh the flags were going up and everything, and it was breaking my heart seeing friends align with that. Suddenly I vanished. Lots of people thought I blocked them. I didn't, I just you just are not visible. Um, but it meant I realised after a few weeks of stuff that's now not bothering me. The mental space that you get, yeah. Oh my god, the the the detachment from the world seems like a terrible thing when you need to sell tickets to people and communicate with people. Then again, you think, my god, what's important? The world is a crazy place right now. So we need what we do so badly because people desperately need some escapism and activism. That's what they're asking is it's activism. So we need to exist, we need to continue to exist, but we need to any producers out there seriously consider alternative ways of how you would reach your customers. Yeah, the show. Because when it happens, um, and I still I still wasn't able to do anything about it at all. But my point of this is with this whole um this AI thing that I won't name because I don't know whether you're allowed to, but the AI thing that allows people to digitally uh change clothing. Yes. Yeah, so there's a have you not heard of there's a there's a lamp attached to uh X that called Grock, which allows someone to take your image and remove all of your clothes. And so of course, when they're doing it to underage people, that's when suddenly it's a problem.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, but imagine if someone did that to you and did something very bad with your image and then posted it and tagged you. You would what like what happened to me? You were getting raised, and you have no way of doing anything about it or getting your account back because you're permanently banned. So uh heed a warning on business side, we're talking business of burlesque, which is we need it to we need to carry on existing, but we need to make sure that this crazy world that is happening around us doesn't erase us without using about us.

SPEAKER_02:

And I guess to say to anybody listening at home, like the way that you can support the community in the art form is like share performers' posts, you know. Even you can't buy a ticket to a show, but you can share the post, that helps have visibility. Yeah, you know, share and like and engage with balesque and cabaret and variety as much as you can on these platforms so we don't lose our visibility, you know. The power is with the people if people actively interact with us.

SPEAKER_01:

It really, really is. Um, I want to tie back to something. Um so you said in the intro about co-founder of Chige Pride. This comes back to power of people. Okay, so uh the my cabaret shows were happening. Friends of mine who from the community were saying to me things like, it's so nice to have somewhere in Chigita that you can we can hold hands and not be afraid of being seen. And I was like, wow, that's really sad that you have to that that's the even thing. So um, and that's why a friend of mine who that same year came out to me as uh trans and then couldn't find any help locally, uh, and then we had this crazy idea of like Chichita needs a pride, and it was literally just that conversation. That is what happened. Um, and then of course, all of my work with king with the LGBTQ class community came about, and of course, all the performers and it all just made sense, like we need to do a pride, and then the momentum got going, and then the lockdown happened, and then a few years went by, and now Chichita Pride is a is a regular charity, and it still brings activism. And I do book burlesque and cavalry performers for the family-friendly festival, um, bringing them to a family audience, uh, and also an audience in Chichita that wouldn't wouldn't necessarily see that, but that's the whole thing. I'm so incredibly proud of that. And like without my cabaret club, I don't know had that conversation not happened. So it's yeah, I like to think that okay, not just someone who just books people to come and dance on the stage, there's there's activism behind it. Yes, so much so of all different levels. So um allyship is a huge part of what I do for yeah, for so many, so many reasons.

SPEAKER_02:

It's so beautiful. Yeah, we've really created like a beautiful space in Chichester, like that celebrates community and and allyship and opens up so there's but isn't it a shame that the world is also closing that down? Yeah. So it's like we have to keep fighting the fight, don't you? You know, of like I always try and not I fight the fight where I can, you know. Yeah. What is what are the actions that I can take where I can show up and show allyship and and hold space, you know, part of this podcast is Yes, absolutely the reason, you know, huge part of this podcast was me opening up and holding a space for others to come on and share these beautiful, unique stories and holding that community and allyship so people hearing or watching from around the world can feel seen and valued and connected, and that there is a community, you know, and before I love, I love that.

SPEAKER_01:

I love this, and I'd really, really enjoyed watching because um some of the performers that you've had, or some of the people that you've had uh featured, I've known in the industry, um, but never had the pleasure of meeting them. And to get a little bit of an insight into them, we just get no chance in a cabro show. You know what it's like, it's backstage, the producer is usually flying around doing a hundred different things. And then I've hired so many brilliant people, but I can't say I know them.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So this podcast is great because it's given the chance to know what's going on behind all the bits and the grammar, um, and and the variety of people as well. So you've the people you've had so far, I'm really enjoying. So long may it last.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I'm hoping that I was saying to Paul, the producer earlier, I was like, I want to get to a year, yeah. And I feel like, you know, and I want to get as many people on in that year that show the huge diversity of our industry and all of the beautiful things that people do within their communities, the main community.

SPEAKER_01:

What do you want? So after the year, if you could get some feedback about what you've done, what would be the thing you'd want to hear?

SPEAKER_02:

The it helps people feel less alone in the world. I think to f for people to fill a safe space where they can come and learn and grow and feel seen and valued and know that there are others in the world just like them. And I think that is the beauty of burlesque and cabaret is there's so many beautiful, colourful people in the industry, and there's sharing that love and that light with people, and just to hopefully it the show reaches people and touches people in a really positive way. That's the I love that.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that, and that's so that that's perfect because again, it's a community that never really meets, even though they meet all the time. Yeah, I think hard to get just literally we we meet but we don't connect. So this is obviously people are just watching this, uh, you know, or listening to it, but it's a way of connecting and understanding the person behind it because my gosh, I mean, our I say I I always say community uh uh to means different things. A group of people who are in the same industry, um, because it doesn't always feel like a community because I'm right down on the south coast. I mean, so I don't have the middle of the country to have the benefit of all of that networking up there. But um the community can over the years there have been many times when it's let me down, it's disappointed me online specifically. Um, some of these community groups that were set up, and there was you know, you get some sort of unpleasantness going on, and you sort of like one go, no, stop. It's up to us to hold positive space, not to turn in on each other. Yeah, and that is really sad, and it and it happened to me, you know, um, because I think it happens to everyone at some point, and so it's really nice to be given the opportunity to sort of hope to give a glimpse of you know what I'm really like because people make all sorts of assumptions about things.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh they're usually wrong.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and this is like the joy that I've wanted to do this show is because I'm so endlessly curious about people. So I'm always the person backstage, or if I'm traveling with performers, I'm always like, so how did you get into something? What inspired you? Because I'm just fascinated.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that about you, and that when I when I've had you at shows, um, especially the last one in the summer, when um um I had Jess Thunder on the show. And and you were sat there and you have such a beautiful, I'm not just bigging you up here, I'm just saying you genuinely have you you ooze empathy. You are such an empathetic person, you're genuinely interested in people, and um even though a producer like me is running around like crazy things, you've always got time to just sort of check in and you know you you always seem so calm. I'm not sure you're not always calm, but you have the ability to always look so chilled out and calm, like nothing faces you. So it's really nice to have people like that backstage because there's too many that aren't. So it's really nice when you get someone that is just giving and interested and creates because you know, let's face it, what happens backstage can contribute to what happens on stage.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's really important to nurture that backstage spirit, isn't it? And connect with people. And um, maybe that comes from, you know, been in the industry 14 years now. I've experienced everything on stage and off stage. Everything I'm sure there'll be new stuff, but um the the best way to always deal with it is to try and just be kind and kind and and just show up and do your best and try and have the grace that everybody else is also trying to show up and do their best.

SPEAKER_01:

I remember um again in early days, and trust me, I think because I had the early shows I went to like the big theatre shows, that's what I thought I wanted to do. And I did a really big theatre show it within the first couple of years of my career as a producer. I mean, it's it may I joke so I got banned from that theatre. I joke about that, but it's quite close to truth. I didn't really cast it as uh maybe I would have done now. Um but yes, there's been so many, so many performers, and it took me quite a few years to learn that um making sure as a producer you find out how people prefer to be communicated with. Because sometimes, you know, we were trying to get tech from five people, notes from people, public liability insurance from people, risk assessment, and you sort of forget that you're getting that person that's just not getting back to you or not giving you what you need. And it used to anger me, it's like, why can't people just do what I'm not saying? Why can't I just do what I say? But actually, if you ask early days, is is there anything you can tell about how you prefer to be communicated with? Because I've worked with someone for many, many years, and the relationship ended, and I had no idea until it ended that they told me that they were um dyslexic. And it all got too overwhelming with how successful the shows were and how crazy it got. I was like, if you told me that, then I should have asked.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a tricky one, isn't it? Because I'm dyslexic and I don't go around advertising to people. Um, but I particularly in the art forms and and more and more we're understanding the word neurodivergence. Yes. And how many people in society that it affects. And like you say, having that nuance sometimes of like, how does somebody need information? You know, what space do they need, you know, what's overwhelming for some is okay for others. And try your best to, you know, there's only so much you can do as a producer, but you know, to be mindful and conscious of that and to provide that safe space for those people.

SPEAKER_01:

You do well. I think as the years have gone by, the as a producer you never stop learning because there's always something extra I need to add to my production notice. It's grown, it's grown and grown and grown about obviously I never thought in the early days about allergies backstage, you know. Um and now being a diagnosed uh with CLAC disease, I know more than anyone now why that's important. Um, but also if some people um who I don't know, there's there's so many things you could say, but someone just providing a small screened area for someone who might want to put a certain bit of costume on in private, just because people do strip tease on stage doesn't mean to say they're comfortable backstage. Um, and you know, in the early days I I'd think that some people were behaving they didn't like me or they were a bit strange or something, but actually, if I'd have asked the right questions or if we'd have had a better communication about how is this going to work best for you, that will make it easy for me. Yeah, their conversation's definitely worth having. So advice to performers is your producer, have that conversation. If there's a way you prefer to be communicated with, so um, if you if you want to see a photograph, just a a a screenshot of the room you're performing in, or the backstage area, all the accessibility, um, or the type of audience there is, you know what I mean? Just ask the questions. Um, and if if you are if you're working in the crew section, uh at stage manager, tech, lights, whatever, um, sometimes you might want to be sent video the little video clips we get sent by the performers to how that look, how that looks, what that act is like, rather than being told, at three minutes 42 I need a blackout with some jazzy lights or something. So yeah, yeah. It's about yeah, the the open dialogue, sure.

SPEAKER_02:

For performers and producers listening um in on the show, it's about both sides opening up to communication and saying, um, this would help me if you can provide that. Yeah. But also the understanding if you can't, um try and find all you know, the the new. wants but to have that dialogue and conversation rather than it be uh friction later on down the line. There's always a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't think there'd be any producer that would disagree with um wanting to know how a performer is comfortable because it's our job. We want we want it to translate well on stage and if as producers and hosts if you create the right environment, you know, because like I said earlier you've only got four and a half to six minutes to to completely do your job in one go. It's just up to us to curate and make sure that if that works well for you. So I've learned I mean I continue to learn as a producer I continue to learn all the time. I just didn't expect this year to be learning how to sell tickets without social media cover.

SPEAKER_02:

How not to get banned from Facebook. Well I've managed to get banned about three times three times yeah it's just but I understand the stress of that yeah it's anxiety inducing it's really not fun but you know kind of kind of refreshing as well because people don't have access to you 24% if I wasn't a performer and I didn't need social media for my work I would probably delete it. I think a lot of people would say the same we're sort of all gradually getting there now aren't we the internet and social media seemed like an exciting thing and now we're like yeah let's just tell back a little bit.

SPEAKER_01:

But what what really struck me when I lost my Instagram I am now back on Instagram by the way Dawn Gracie Cabray Burlesque um but it's got like 300 followers but they're they're there for a specific reason. Okay. Um but you know when it disappeared when I had no no longer have my account I was like how few performers have a website yeah I know that sounds really like old fashioned but how else will someone contact you? Yeah how else can a producer contact you so I did have to quickly get a new account up and going but um yes the the world of Cabaret Boles without social media what is it?

SPEAKER_02:

So if I could ask you one more question.

SPEAKER_01:

When people talk about you in 20 years' time what do you hope they say your work gave them or gave the world um she was ridiculous but we loved it I don't know because that's how I refer to people like Larry Grayson and Bruce Wars the old you know they were ridiculous and I loved it. That's I suppose that um I don't know I suppose that that's what it would be is that a good way is that a good way to be thought of I don't really care but that's what it will be colourful and ridiculous. Colourful ridiculous but also um passionate passionate about the cause and I do see burlesque in cabrey as a activism it's always been at the heart of it for a reason it's for a reason.

SPEAKER_02:

You do so much with that with Chicha Pride and Dickley bows and petticoats like anyone listening at home that's in the area.

SPEAKER_01:

Chichta Cabre Club um it didn't used to be called it actually early days it was called Starlet's burlesque and then a couple of years into it um I decided to call it Chichta Cabre Club because if I called it that Chichta couldn't deny it existed. Clover mic yeah um but I do also have a brand called uh showgirl which is so if venues um like the place you came to in summer if clients or venues want to book me externally showgirl is kind of me bringing the show and bringing people with me so that's that's what that brand is.

SPEAKER_02:

So the Chichar Cabra Club, Dicky Bows and Petti Oats Club and uh yeah and Care Home Singer or party singer um general joy general joy bringer and bingo I can rattle a bingo cage really well um it's been a pleasure talking to you thank you so much for joining us so let's have the time to talk as well as we I know I can't believe I never knew you lived in Germany.

SPEAKER_01:

I was literally at the start of the show going how do I I was born in Germany yeah I was army child army child but today's one of the sponsors for today's show is the fabulous Crystal Parade and we love sticking sparkles on things don't we I have I bought a huge consignment from Crystal Parade I've got a pair of shoes and I watched White Christmas the film whilst doing one of them and the other I was actually going to bring the other one and say that's actually so I have got a project on the go beautiful pair of shoes can't wait to debut them but they do some of the most amazing show girl sparkles and they have let me do a sparkly gift for you so um I'm going to present it to you. If you're watching on YouTube obviously you can see what dawn's about shall I do an audio description yeah so for people listening that is holding a satin type bag with sexy drawstring and she looks inside and it's a gut oh this this is a hang on I haven't got my glasses on this first it's a light up oh we can see hello oh my god how long did that take you I should have bought my shoes I should have bought my shoes that's incredible I love those blue colours every show girl needs a light up sparkling you know every single performer at the shows now is going to say where did you get such beautiful crystals and we shall say crystal parade thank you that's incredible I'm sending you my shoes I don't care what you say that's incredible and a fabulous bag just for those who don't uh know what that is this is a light up mirror with uh there looks like blue and black crystals probably an S20 or something I'm not quite sure SS20 SS10 SS10 beautiful sparkly very tactile as well beautiful thank you so much Crystal Parade you rock but thank you so much for joining us today Dawn it's been an honour and a pleasure to get to know you more and and hear your story and all that you do and you're not for keep going because this is fabulous I'm really looking forward to getting to know more people through you who would you like to see on the show oh who would I like oh my god I wish you'd give me some warning about that because there's so many um shall we name shall we do it off camera so just um more producers I'd I'd be interested because as a producer and uh cabaret artist producers I think a lot of performers would be really interested to hear um more more from them and the why it came to happen and just some tips because you know there's less and less shows and lots of performers so if you need some tips from producer on how to how to best place to get the job um and oh there's so there's so many performers I'm so nosy I want to know about everything so get them all get them all well thank you so much for thank you so much for having me thank you I wish you all the luck and success thank them for everything that you do and uh we'll see you again soon