What If One Brave Class Changes Everything ? Rose Thorne's Story

It starts with a back injury and a collapse in confidence, then turns into a life built around stagecraft, community, and service. We sit down with Rose Thorne, UK cabaret producer, performer, and founder of Cabaret vs Cancer, to talk about what burlesque looks like when you stop treating it like a costume and start treating it like a practice.

We go back to the East London roots of Rose’s journey with Good Time Mama Jojo, the nerves and blur of those early performances, and the moment she realises she has found something more than a hobby. From there, we get practical about producing: the reality of being your own PR, marketing team, bookkeeper, and front of house, plus the one thing that can make or break a show that audiences never see. Rose lays out why backstage etiquette matters, how to treat stage managers and tech with respect, and why dressing rooms have to feel safe if you want a scene that lasts.

Then we follow the thread that turns cabaret into real-world impact. Cabaret vs Cancer begins with a charity calendar and grows into a registered charity that has raised and distributed more than £460,000, supporting people affected by cancer through ring-fenced grants and practical help. Along the way we talk body image, social media comparison, switching off technology, and the quiet power of small kindnesses that build a chosen family.

If you’re a performer, producer, or fan of burlesque and cabaret, you’ll leave with grounded advice you can use straight away and a reminder that community is something we build on purpose. Subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave a review with the moment that stayed with you.

To reach out to Cabaret Vs Cancer - https://www.cabaretvscancer.co.uk/

Proudly Sponsored by Crystal Parade - https://crystalparade.co.uk/

Transcript

Welcome Behind The Curtain

SPEAKER_00 0:01

It's not just feathers and fishnets. Welcome to the real world behind the sparkle. I'm Isabella Bliss, international performer, Marilyn Monroe Tribute, coach, and lifelong lover of sequins and storytelling. Each month I sit down with the performers, producers, creatives, and beautiful misfits shaping our world. We talk career highs, backstage lows, body image, empowerment, and everything in between. If you're a performer, a fan, or just curious about what really happens behind the curtain, you're in the right place. Hit follow for your monthly dose of truth, tassels, and behind the scenes brilliance. Today's guest is the brilliant Rose Thorne, cabaret producer, performer and charity founder, a real powerhouse in the UK cabaret scene. Trained by the legendary Good Time Mama Jojo back in 2007, Rose has performed across the country and is best known as the co-producer of East London's award-winning Double R Club. The wonderfully surreal lynch-inspired cabaret that has become one of London's longest-running shows. Beyond the stage, Rose is also the founder of Cabaret vs. Cancer, a charity that has raised and distributed more than£460,000 to support people affected by cancer. She's a longtime drag idol judge and a recent silver award winner at the Best Businesswoman Awards for her work as charity champion. So let's get into it. This is Rose Thorne.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Hi, thank you very much. It's all so humbling to hear somebody else see what you are and what you've achieved.

Finding Burlesque After A Setback

SPEAKER_00 1:42

It's strange, isn't it? I think we don't always give ourselves credit for the things that we've done. And you've made such a mark on the cabaret industry as a whole and the community. And that's why I'm so humbled and grateful that you agreed to come on the show. Oh, my pleasure. I'll always take an opportunity to chat. Good fun and good chat. And you look absolutely fabulous. Thank you very much. I love it. I love it. So let's take us back. How did you first discover balless?

SPEAKER_01 2:09

I th I've been thinking about this a lot since I started listening to your podcast and I don't know what happened. Um I I suffered a back injury in 2006 and lost a massive amount of self-confidence. I went from being somebody who wore heels every day to not being able to wear heels. And somehow I found Tournament of Tees, Bethnergreen Working Man's Club, and Good Time Mama Jojo. And I don't know how it happened. I was on a lot of painkillers at the time. So I don't know whether or not I've got a flyer handed to me, whether I picked it up out of Time Out magazine. I don't know what happened, but the stars aligned. And I I found Tournament of Tees, Bethnergreen Working Mans Club, and Good Time Mama Jojo in East London, and that's when the magic started.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Yeah. So such iconic spaces as well, aren't they? Because Good Time Mama Jojo, she was on episode two of the show, and she has taught so many performers in the UK cabaret. And the Bethnel Green Working Man's Club was such an iconic venue.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Yeah, yeah, it really, really was. You know, um Ben Ben Waters, um who was the cabaret editor of Time Out, said all burlesque roads in London and the UK lead back to Good Time Mama Jojo. Yeah. And and and she was she was the she's our OG. Yeah. Um and and Bethner Green was where the Whoopi Club was, and you know, it just kind of like those three things aligned. Yeah. And um and you know, my husband Ben and I found ourselves regulars at Tournament of Tees. Um, and all of a sudden I had signed up and was doing uh a course and um and and really I had no intention of performing. It was about my own self-confidence and trying not to kind of hate the person that I'd become when I wasn't able to dress and wear the shoes that I used to wear. And so I did the course really just to kind of pick myself up a little bit, and then all of a sudden it's kind of like, Yeah, I'm gonna do this.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

You find that like new spark in yourself again, isn't it? And I always say, like, when people talk about wanting to learn bales, but they're like, Oh no, I don't want to be a performer, and I always say you don't have to. Yes, you don't have to. But you might start and then change your mind. But it's a great way for you to access those parts of yourself again, isn't it? And reconnect with your body and your identity and find who you are at that point in your life.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Yeah, it was you know, I I I was a majorette when I was a little girl. I was I did figure skating, but you know, I hadn't been on stage for I don't know, 20 years, and and it just wasn't my intention at all. And I I I I know I've had this conversation with Joe a lot. I nearly didn't go back after the first class really because I thought this is not for me, you know. Uh and um, but I did go back and um and and the the rest is history.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

I'm so grateful you did.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Yeah, I'm grateful I did, you know. I joking without a doubt changed changed my life and um and should never be and her role in this community should never be underplayed for the changes and impact she's had on people.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Yeah, and she has such a great way about her joke, isn't she? The way that she can nurture um what's with inside you and bring it to the surface, and just such a wealth of knowledge and her kindness and her empathy, and she's so warm and just such a skill and knowledge to teach you.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

It's just doesn't turn out clones, and I think that's really important. You know, she has she will work with what you have and what you want to do, and you could line up three of her girls all to do um you know, all to perform, and you know, they're not all clones of each other, and I think that's really important.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yeah, you you don't want to be an identical somebody else, do you? You know, you want to find and I think that's the beauty of ballet and cabaret, isn't it? It's like finding your own little stamp and your own little identity. Yeah, we can be inspired by things, but it's how do we take those inspirations and make it our own Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

So Tournament of Tees, I I found myself at Tournament of Teas, and then I signed up to one of Joe's classes, and then all of a sudden I was competing in Tournament of Tees. And um uh yeah, and it was it was all kind of bonkers, really how kind of like it just happened really quickly. A whirlwind. Yeah.

First Time On Stage Nerves

SPEAKER_00 6:09

And that's fun, isn't it? Exciting adventures. Yeah, it really was. Do you remember what it felt like the first moment you stepped on stage to perform?

SPEAKER_01 6:17

I I remember I remember getting ready to go on stage. So we were that that week the Tournament of Teas was in the downstairs room of Beth No Green, and I remember I was in the second half and I remember I remember, you know, shaking so much because it's like, what am I doing? I don't get I don't do public speaking. I you know, I was at that time I was a completely different person, and um and I was really nervous and I was really shaking and it the kind of like the the nerves, but then once you hear your music and you get on stage and you know you assume the position and you go through the choreography that you've learned, it's it just kind of like all of a sudden it's over. Um I don't remember the performance, but I remember before and I remember afterwards because with Tournament of Tees, the judges would give you feedback. Okay. So you would stand on stage with the host who was Good Time Mama Jojo, and the judges would give you feedback. And so I remember I remember standing next to Joe after I performed and I started shaking again. And um and I remember before going on with Ben, kind of trying to put glitter in my in my gloves and um and and shaking then. But I the actual kind of three and a half minutes that I was on stage is a bit of a blur. Is a blur, but I I must have liked it because I did it again, and I won my heat of Tournament of Tees. So that was a really exciting moment as well. My first first performance in at least 20 years, and I won my heat, and it was really exciting. And that was you like hooked line sinker into the world. Yeah, all of a sudden, yeah, part of it.

Building The Double R Club

SPEAKER_00 7:52

And what kind of developed from there for when you guys kind of set up the double R Club? Like, what was the time period between starting to perform and then you and your wonderful partner?

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Yeah, so it was about it was probably about two years. Um Ben, Ben would always carry suitcases if he was coming to shows. He would help carry other people's suitcases if we were at shows. There was one time in in West London he stepped in for the DJ who had to go home. And you know, so he was he was around. We uh we there was a there was a group of us girls, and we all had our our burlesque widows, as we called them. And and they they would all kind of just be around if we needed them. And um and Ben and I had been together for a long time before we s we kind of I entered this world of burlesque and cabaret, and we'd always been Lynch fans. David Lynch had been a big part of our life. And I remember the first time we walked into Bethlehem Green, it's like this is so Lynch. Um and you know, London at that time, you know, this is kind of 2007, 2009. There was a lot of kind of um, we always called it jazz hand cabaret, there was a lot of kind of real uplifting, happy, yeah, happy stuff. And and we thought, is there room um for a David Lynch cabaret? Something a little bit darker, something a little bit less end of the pier, and a little bit more kind of curated to a really a really, really small headline. And um and and and Ben was talking to one of his friends, and they said, Oh, you'll probably get a couple of shows out of it. And um, and so we'd been doing the double R Club since September 2009. So about two years after I started porn, 18 months after I started performing, we were putting on a show every single month, and and we did it every single month and still do it every single month. We've moved from Bess McGreen Working Man's Club to Waldham Stowe Trades Hall, um and and and still thriving, still finding new audiences, finding people who say, Oh, this is my first time. And I always say to them, Well, how did you find us? And they said, Oh, we're big Twin Peaks fans, and it's like, Oh, okay, so it's it's still out there and still getting new audiences. And just in February, we we sold out, and for a show to sell out in the current climate, is there something to be really proud of? And we worked really hard, but we it's very much a kind of team effort. I'll I'll kind of do all the front of house stuff, and you know, Ben Ben writes these monologues and introduces people in a way that they're not introduced probably anywhere else.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Yeah, and that's the beauty, isn't it, of like putting on your own show like that. People don't realise when we're like as put producers or performers or artists, we are doing so many roles just because the the people think that you have help and production teams and people doing it for you, and you're like, No, it's just just just us.

Backstage Etiquette And Safe Spaces

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Yeah, you know, we're we're PR, we're marketing, we're we're bank keep bookkeepers, we're bankers, we're you know, you know, venue negotiators, contract negotiators, and and just you know, all sorts of hats. So I tend to do all the front of house and admin stuff, um, and Ben manages the show and gets on and and and does that. And and I think one of the things that I realized having been in Joe's world for a couple of years beforehand was how important dressing rooms are, yeah. And that actually it doesn't matter how great you are out front, if you're not very nice in the dressing room, I'm not gonna book you again. Because it's really important that the dressing rooms are safe spaces and everybody is just really nice to each other. And and I'm really grateful for the kind of double R family that we've managed to curate and that kind of real really nurture people um to to kind of be their authentic self while remaining loyal to the David Lynch theme, um, which is ridiculous when you say it out loud. Um, let's take a man who only made a handful of films and make that our inspiration. Uh yeah, it's it's work though. It really has, yeah, we've been really lucky. We we won um best ongoing show at the London Cavalry Awards, Ben won Best Host at the London Cavalry Awards when they were running. So that it's been really nice to be recognised and by our kind of community.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

That's good. And I guess would that be your advice as a producer to like new performers or performers that are coming up into the industry is to be mindful of your backstage etiquette and how important it is just to be kind and supportive and good to get on with backstage.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Yeah, I think I think, you know, I think putting on shows is really stressful. And if you don't add to that stress, you'll be remembered. If you do add to that stress, you'll also be remembered, but maybe for a different reason. But I think I think, you know, I think saying please and thank you to your stage managers and your tech team is really important. And really just kind of saying, you know, just being really kind of communicative. I think that's the biggest thing I would say to new performers coming up is just be communicative backstage, talk to people, introduce yourself to the people on the bill that you don't know, and and remember that your tech team and your stage managers have your entire act in their hands.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

So be nice to them, be nice, yeah. And it's a great opportunity to make new friends, isn't it? I remember when I first got into burlesque, I was just so excited of all these like new people and new friends that you could make. And you know, it's just that's I think sometimes people get so hyper-focused on the performance and you know having the perfect costume or the perfect choreography, and sometimes they miss the actual enjoyment of the experience of burlesque and cabaret is the sense of becoming part of a community and making friends is for me was a huge part of it.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah, and being inspired by each other, it's really important to take inspiration from everybody that you encounter, whether that you know is great inspiration or lessons learned inspiration. You can learn from every performer you see. And you know, and I've always really valued the amount of performers that do come to the Double R Club as as kind of paying paying guests. And you know, right from the very beginning, we've always had a kind of performer element in the audience, and that's really important to me because it shows that they value and respect what we're doing in front of house, but also that they can be inspired and learn from everybody.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

And how would you say your experience now? So when because you still perform Belless now, don't you? On occasion.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Oh I I think probably um once or twice a year, probably once a year. I have I have one one girl left and um and she lives at the double R Club and um I haven't performed on anybody else's stage for probably about eight years. But um sometimes she comes to the double R Club. And do you still enjoy that? I love her. She um I always talk about her in the third person, but she is my tribute to the elephant woman. And I what I love about that act is how much she is kind of me. That that kind of the moment the the reveals of being from somebody who can't walk without a stick to having to feel a little bit kind of fragile when they move to all of a sudden being kind of like you know, that first reveal when it's kind of like, yeah, this is me. And I I love her, I love her so much, and she yeah, she lives in a suitcase um under my bed, and but she's always there. Um but yeah, she's me.

Creating A Persona That Helps

SPEAKER_00 14:57

That's the beauty of the creative part of burlesque, isn't it? We create these characters, um and I guess so coming up with your burlesque name is part of that creating that persona, isn't it? And how did you come up with your cabaret name?

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Well, this is an also a very odd story. My life is full of odd stories. When I first met Ben, which was 1992, I'm going to take some water, um, I had gone to see his him in his parents' house where he he lived at the time. And his dad, the first name he called me, his dad called me Rose. So so Rose was always there. Ben's mum's middle name is Rose, and weirdly Rose just kind of stuck. And and then we we did a bit of digging, and and I this might just be historical memory, but the French word for spine is also the word for thorn. And it's kind of like there we go, Rose Rose Thorn. I was Miss Rose Thorne until I hit about probably about 45, and it's like I can't call myself Miss anymore. I'm getting too old for this, so I'm very much now just Rose Thorne, and and and that's what people call me, and I often refer to it as my day name and my night name.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Day name and night name. I love that so cute. And it's good to have like so. I say to people like the idea and the concept of having these cabaret personas is that empowerment and the permission that you get to like step into somebody that's almost a little bit more courageous or a little bit more brave, extended version of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Yeah, I think Rose Rose Thorne gave me the kind of courage to be me. Um, I can do public speaking now at the drop of a hat, um stand up in front of 350 people at Wilton's Music Hall and talk about the charity and not even bat an eyelid and pre-burlesque, absolute worst nightmare public speaking, and I would do everything to avoid it. And so burlesque has kind of given me the confidence to be me to remember that even when I'm day-name me, that um that that kind of like Rose is always part of me, and if she can do it, then my day person can do it as well, and really, really changed me completely.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

So it could like people in the kind of if they had a nine to five, we were talking about this in the last episode actually with Madam about how it's a great idea for people in the kind of nine to five that aren't in the industry could create their own kind of like little persona that they can sort of put on when they feel that they need to be a little bit more brave and a little bit more confident and see themselves as that character as a way of like building.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Absolutely. But yeah, Rose Rose Thorne um takes over more and more of me as every year goes by.

What Burlesque Really Means

SPEAKER_00 17:41

It's not necessarily a bad thing. How would you describe burlesque to somebody that doesn't know what burlesque is? Goodness. It's a tricky one.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

It is a tricky one. I think burlesque is different to everybody. I think it's about giving yourself the space to be you and if you don't know who you are, having the time and opportunity to um to explore who who you are. And burlesque, whether you take your clothes off or whether you don't take your clothes off, gives you the space to connect with the the real you that may have been hidden away. Um it's a little bit like that um Pixar film, um Is it the Insiders? The kind of they've all got little kind of all your emotions live as little people in your head. And and and I think burlesque allows you to find a little person that perhaps you haven't recognised. I think it can be playful, it can be scary, it can be a whole vast uh array of of emotions. But the big thing for me is that burlesque can really help find out who you are and help you live the the best life you can.

Switching Off Tech And Comparison

SPEAKER_00 18:52

And that's just such a beautiful thing, isn't it? To have that kind of freedom to go on a little adventure of discovering little more facets of who you are as a person, yeah, and being more expressive with that. Yeah, it's important when um life and work feels intense with whether it's the burlesque or charity work, what is it that you would come back to to really kind of help you know support and ground yourself? Because it can get a bit crazy, can you as well?

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Yeah, it can get a little bit overwhelming. I think um I think the the thing that I I kind of like an early night, a bath and a bet and a book and my cat, you know, I you know, I think the ability to kind of switch off from from technology is really important and I I'm not very good at it. I am I it's it's an odd thing. I think when somebody emails me I need to reply straight away, nobody's expecting me to reply straight away, but I that's a kind of self-imposed pressure. But I think the the the way for me to escape is kind of you know, walks along the river, you know, books and baths, and and really just escaping technology because it can technology can kind of overwhelm you. You know, you know, we have I think at the moment I I run four Instagram accounts, I've got you know four different email inboxes, and all of this stuff can be really overwhelming. Um and turning off your phone either to watch a movie or to have a bath or have an early night is really, really important. And I think that disconnect from technology is something that probably we all need to get a little bit better at.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Definitely, because I feel like I I'm nearly 40 this year. So I remember in the world before um, you know, we had all the social media raps, and and it it did feel a lot more quieter, and you kind of had space to have your own thoughts, and it's been a real experience, isn't it, over the recent years of how impactful social media is on all of us and that you'll constantly see other people perform or other shows and you can somehow get that fear of missing out or you know that you're not doing it right, and so it's really important to take those mental health breaks.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Yeah, yeah, I think I think so. I and I think you know, there there's real kind of um the the internet will always show you somebody who you think is, you know, thinner, better, funnier, prettier, richer, all of these things. And you know, they're just a kind of short clip. And you know, I'm I'm I'm 56 now and I see a lot of adverts for, you know, lose that menopause weight, you know, and and and you know, get these, you know, these shots, these vitamins, these, you know, and it's kind of it it's really overwhelming and can really kind of pull you down. So if you're having already a hard day, and then every other s every other advert on Instagram is lose that menopause weight, it's like, yeah, you know, I feel really rubbish about myself, and and sometimes you just have to remind yourself who you are.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

But it's really hard.

Childhood Influences And Act Ideas

SPEAKER_00 21:46

It is hard, and that's the kind of I think what I've enjoyed about burlesque is the the way it helps you connect with your body and the celebration of all bodies. Like in a way that social media. And and mainstream um advertisement is like we should all look this way. And what I love for audience members is when they come to a burlesque and a cabaret show that they see so many different body types and body shapes that it really makes people feel like more seen and like oh okay, like you know, because you're not seeing that airbrushed perfect, you're seeing real people and real bodies and you kind of click back in and you go, Oh yeah, we've all got those bits, and like you know, we've all got you know, and that's healthy and natural and normal, but we're so conditioned to the other stuff, yeah. You know, it's lovely when people can come to shows, and I've had people come to me after a show before and I've gone, Oh my god, I love seeing you on stage because it made me feel sane to see a body like yours, and that's what is a real joy that we can share with our audiences. Yeah, we're not all the same, and nor should we be. Yeah, we should totally like embrace all the different absolute weaknesses. So, what could you maybe take me back of like when you were younger and growing up, were you very much into kind of performance or creative? What was your inspirations when you were growing up as a leader?

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Yeah, I I I I was quiet. I I I was really quiet. I was, you know, I my mum would always say that I would hide behind her skirt if some if a stranger came into the room. I was and and an I've always been quite quiet. I I as I said I I did majorettes when I was probably kind of like maybe six to ten, six to twelve. I did majorettes and really enjoyed that. But again, I always had this they're better, they're thinner, they're faster, they're you know, everything, real kind of like comparisons with the other other girls, and and and then I and I was doing some figure skating, and I think what I liked about figure skating was just kind of being on my own.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Um I I I do quite like being on my own. And so growing up I wasn't um I wasn't kind of surrounded by lots of people, lots of noise, lots of, you know, my mum all my mum and dad always had parties, my mum was always the the bell of the ball, but I think I I grew up watching movies and um and um and you know and kind of like throwing myself into into movies and and and that kind of you know solitude of of kind of you know listening to music, watching telly, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

What were your movies that kind of really inspired you?

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Uh I Doris D, my heart belongs to Doris D. I think um the moment I realized I could do a Doris Day Cabaret, a burlesque act, and don a pink wig and wear pink, it will put on a blonde wig and wear pink gingham was a a revelation to me and and an absolute joy. But I loved Doris D. I loved those old musicals, I love old westerns, um you know, the carry on screaming is a real favourite of mine, and you know, and it was just it was you know, it was a time where there was you know three TV channels when I was growing up, and and so on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon, you know, I would sit down with my dad and my mum and we'd watch a movie and and and that was a really big part of growing up.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

And it's nice that you can bring those inspirations, isn't it, into your acts. And this is what we say to people, isn't it? It's like when you're creating your unique style, and it's like drawing on all of those things that you experienced and you loved growing up as a child can really develop into um how you want to create something.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Absolutely. I had a I had a carry-on screaming act, and and when I was kind of toning down and doing a lot less performance, I sold my entire act to a girl in Texas who the dress had been custom-made for me and and and it was phenomenal, but I was never going to wear it again. Yeah. And so I just sold the whole thing, pasties and all, to to somebody in Texas, which was great. Is she still doing it? I have no idea. I don't know whether she ever even did do it, but I sold the whole the whole the whole thing to her. My my Doris Day act, um, you know, I wore a blonde bob, um, it was to the Doris Day song Don't Eat the Daisies. Adora Bell made me pasties where them there was daisy um bees on springs, so that when I took off my bra, the bees kind of bounced about. And um and they were they were really really joyful, really joyful, and and and I think are all different facets of the the the the rose thorn that you see before you, you know, there's still a little bit of me in there that's thinking, could I wear pink gingham?

unknown 26:21

No.

The Next Ten Years Ahead

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Do you where would you see yourself as Rose Thorne developing, you know, in the next five to ten years as a a performer or producer?

SPEAKER_01 26:32

I think I think for me, you know, I I'm I you know, I'm you know, five to ten years is seems like no time at all. I think I think what I need to be thinking about is what happens to the charity. Yeah. What does the next generation of chat the board look like? How can we if we can get this is our tenth anniversary of the charity, if we can get to half a million this year, how do we get to a million? Yeah, yeah. And so so I think my focus the the double R club will keep going as long as um as long as audiences want. Um, you know, Ben talks often about being that kind of like you know, crazy old man who's still on stage at six feet. And um right. And and so, you know, I I love doing the double R. I get it, it brings me a great deal of joy, and and so I would like to still be doing the double R and I would like to be thinking about really where the charity goes. Charity goes next. I you know, will I I doubt I'll ever create a new act. Um, you know, but who knows? Who knows? I might hear a tune one day and go, you know what? You know what, I think I could make this work. Um, you know, I you know we we stage all our David Bowie shows, but I've never done a David Bowie act because I've never I've never felt the pull for me. Um not yet. Not yet. I never I never say never, I've I've never said I retire I've retired. I've just said I just don't perform very often anymore. Um because I think sometimes when and this is no disrespect to anybody, when people do big announcements about their ongoing retirement on on social media, it just kind of becomes a little bit a room full of people going, Oh please don't. And so I I never ever said I was retired, I just don't do it very often anymore. So when people when I do do it, it's properly special.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

So tell everybody at home. So the the charity that you run, Cabaret versus Cancer, where how did this all begin?

Where The Money Goes In Practice

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Oh my goodness. So um there was there used to be a a kind of um a website called This Is Cabaret who did reviews and they had seen Ben host three nights in a row, and on the fourth day they put out a post going, surely it's time for the all-nude Benjamin Louish calendar. And I thought to myself, oh, maybe there is time for an all-nude calendar. And um and I reached out to a photographer and I reached out to 12 performers, of course, Ben was one of them, and said, Would you pose nude for a charity calendar? It was the time where calendar girls the movie was coming out, so it was really kind of at the front of people's minds. And so we did the first charity calendar based on you know 12 cabaret performers um naked um with the photographer who turned it in Sin Boskart turned it into an amazing calendar, and we did a we did a launch show for the charity. For you know, we weren't a charity at that time. I thought maybe we could raise£4,000, give half of it to McMillan, half of it to cancer research. I'd lost both my parents to cancer, we'd lost some friends to cancer, so it was the right thing to do, and and it and it really shook off. It was we had people queuing up to be in future calendars. Um, so we did a calendar again the second year, and then on 2016, David Bowie died, and we put on a show, and we raised more money in that one week of a show and an online auction than we had done in all the years previous. And our accountant said you might want to consider becoming a registered charity. And so I did that. I did I wrote all our constitutions, all our policies, all of the kind of legal documents that sit behind the charity, submitted it to the charity commission and just said, Well, let's see what happens. And we got accepted in as a registered charity in June 2016. And at the time, I didn't really think we would be much. I thought, well, we could raise£4,000 with the calendar, maybe we could get£10,000 a year, and wouldn't that be amazing? But it's just gone from strength to strength. 2026 is our 10th anniversary, so we're celebrating our birthday all year, not just saving it for June. We're celebrating our birthday all year, and we we are we're really fortunate to have some great trustees and ambassadors. Um, Lily Snatchdragon is one of our trustees. Molly Beth Morosa is joined our board last year, but we're also supported by young cabaret performers, um, Reese Connolly and Carrot, who do Gallifrey Cabaret, they raise an enormous amount of money for the charity. Ruby Wednesday, you know, a lot of young cabaret performers who are really behind the charity, who will give their talent and time for free to help us raise money. So, yeah, so we are about£26,000 away from half a million pounds. And it's like it's so close, I can kind of touch it. Um, but yeah, we are still we're plowing up that hill. Um, you know, and and and the money we raise is awarded as a grant to other organisations and individuals who need help with cancer or life after cancer, whether that be surviving cancer or dealing with grief and loss. So we have worked really closely with um hospices and bereavement um charities. We've we've we've really kind of reached out to make a difference to people, and by ring fencing our grants, it can't get sucked into any other work streams or admin costs. It's specific to delivering a piece of work, and that's what's really important about our money is it goes direct to a cause. There's an organization in Cornwall called Boost Innovation, and they make breastforms for women after a massectomy, and they are now we've been supporting them since about 2019, but they are now recognised by the NHS, and so you can get a boost breast form on the NHS. So, what we've done this year with them is we've given them money to create a memory garden, a remembrance garden, and obviously planted a rose bush. Um, but it's really nice to kind of go on journeys with people, and that's what we've been able to do because it's been 10 years, so we can see where the money has been kind of tangibly making a difference.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

It's incredible, isn't it? Something that started from a calendar, yeah, has gone on to change and help some people's lives and supported by the community of both library people.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

Yeah, and and I think my you know, my plea to any producer out there who wants to get involved is just drop me a line, you know, we can do a raffle. I can send you stuff. If you're in London, I can send you volunteers, but you know, you can raise money really easily by doing a raffle. You know, whether it's you know£50 or£500, it will genuinely make a difference in people's lives.

How To Get Involved And Donate

SPEAKER_00 33:02

I don't know. Look, I see a lot of performers online when it's people's birthdays, people always say, like, oh Robin, then buy me a gift, or if you want to, and we share like the cabaret versus cancer link, and like if you want to, you know, donate money. So people listening at home, if they want to get in contact with you because they want to work with you, they want to help raise money. How would people contact you to get hold of you?

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Yeah, so that so you can reach me through the charity. Um we are cabaret vs cancer. So it's not the whole word versus it's cabre vs cancer, and that's on Instagram, that's our website address as well. So cabaret vs Cancer is where you'll find us. We are you know old enough to still be on Facebook. Um, you know, we um you know we have we are trying desperately to get our TikTok up and running, but it's a completely different language. Um and you know, our Instagram is run by one of our volunteers and um who does an amazing job with it. But we will you that's the easiest way to get hold of me.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

So yeah, even if people want to help support you or they need help and support from you, please reach out.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Yeah, absolutely. You know, we can certainly help signpost people to um to different organizations. Um if people just need some help with, you know, you know, Diva Hollywood, who's one of our kind of you know, she's been around as long as I have. Oh you know, she was going through breast cancer treatment and uh we were able to send her kind of radiotherapy kits, chemotherapy kits just to help protect her skin to make her feel a little bit better about herself. So we can help you a little bit. We don't give financial grants to people, but we can help with you know life's necessities or a nice bottle of cream that you need because your skin can be really damaged through chemotherapy, especially with radiotherapy. So if we can send you a nice bottle of lotion, that that's a nice thing to do for somebody. Yeah, and but we can certainly signpost people who need help with cancer diagnoses in their life, um, and we can certainly um tell you where your money goes.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

Which is really good, isn't it? The fact that 10 years is such a legacy, like and just so beautiful that you've created something like that.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

That's really proud. I I am really proud. I I get I get moments of going, it's not enough, it's not enough. And then moments of, you know what, really kind of reflecting, you know, it's a lot of money. 460,000 pounds is a lot of money. And um and and Reese, who does all of our Instagram, he's also does a lot of graphics for me. And he is putting together a kind of infographic for me of all of the kind of the numbers that sits behind this, you know, are the number of people who have, you know, performed, including yourself, you know, the number of shows we put on, the number of people who have gotten breast forms because we've helped, the number of children who've been supported. And that I think is going to be quite a humbling moment, but it's never enough. And I will shake down anybody when I when I leave a venue for for money. And um and and what's nice about being a small, we I think we're even a micro charity, is that we know where the money goes, so we don't have the big overheads that some of the big charities have. So the money can be really kind of like narrowly spent where we want it to be spent.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Which is really nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

It's really like personal that connected to but yeah, it's it's the thing, you know, my mum died in 2010 um of of cancer, and and it's kind of like, oh, I wish I could tell her. I wish I could tell her. And often I think, oh, I just could tell my mum what I've done. Because I know that she would be absolutely over the moon with it.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

And we're all so proud of you. No, thank you. It's just it is just incredible the work that you do and how hard you work behind the scenes. I don't think people really appreciate the time and effort that it goes into what you do, not only producing the shows, but also running the charity is essentially like a full-time job in itself.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

And you still have to do a full-time job. Yeah, I do a lot of admin on my commute. Um a lot of admin on my commute, and um and and you know, and it it is hard, and I do beat myself up a lot about it. It's not enough. I'm or I'm doing too much, and and it's it it's yeah, it's a it's a real battle of wills. Um, but I'm I'm bloody-minded and determined. And you know, just you're not on this planet for very long, and if when you're here you can make a difference, whether that be through entertainment, whether that be making people smile when they see you perform, or whether that be raising money for a charity, I think it I think it really counts. And you know, you don't want to be at the end of days thinking, you know, I wish I'd done something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

Just do it. Just do anything, any form of showing up um and contributing, isn't it? I think the act of being of service to others is so like healing for yourself and everybody around you, instead of I wish more people would be less concerned about the kind of the take, take, take and the me, me, me that we've kind of got into with modern society and have a little bit more of a step back and kind of go, what do I give? Yeah, just how do I show up for others? And it doesn't have to be something huge, but every like micro moment where you can just offer that bit of kindness or make a donation or show up in some way, you make the world a bit more of a brighter play.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

And quite often performers who perform even at the you know at the double R Club will say, just give my fee to the charity. And and that's really lovely. You know, one of our tech guys at the Double R Club says, I'll take my Uber fee, but the rest can go to the charity. And it's it's really nice to see how those two parts of my life kind of meet meet because one wouldn't, you know, the charity wouldn't exist without the double R Club and um and the double R Club wouldn't exact exist without Joe King. And so there's this kind of like, you know, I often when I speak to Joe on the phone, I'll say to her, you know, this is all you, yeah, you know, you're responsible for everything. And if it hadn't been for going back that second week when I I was very close not to, had I not bumped into Joe King, had I not bumped into Better and Green Working Man's Club, you know, all of these things, we wouldn't be sitting here today.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Where do you do that? Where do you think your life would be if you hadn't had both this?

SPEAKER_01 38:49

I have no eye, I have no idea. I I I I think about what that sliding moment, kind of sliding doors moment is. You know, she you know, the the the person who was kind of 2006, you know, she'd she you know, she was working in a job she didn't really like, and she had left behind creative industries that you know had kind of come to a a kind of end. Um and and I don't know, I don't know how she would have been I don't know how she could be happy. And she must have been happy because she'd been with Ben for a long time, you know. Um, you know, we moved to East London before all this started. But I yeah, I I have no idea where she is and what she'd be doing. You know, my mum and dad would still have died of cancer, so maybe she would have just worked out how she could make a difference that week.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

This would be beautiful. I love I do love Jo. I regularly ring Jo for chats and advice. She is like the mumma of Berlin. She is. She is. Maybe you're having a little problem or a little drama, and she's got so much wealth and wisdom and like this kind of kindness and patience with it, and I think that comes from being in the industry so long and seeing so much.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Yeah. And she's the first person I went to. When I came back to London after my mum died, she was running a workshop um with Dirty Martini. Oh and it's like, yeah, I'll go to that. And then afterwards, um, Sabrina, who was tiny at the time, she's not tiny anymore. Sabrina and Darty and Joe and I, we went and watched fireworks because it was November.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

And and I always remember the kind of the kindness of Joe at this kind of dark time in my life. The kindness of Joe and the kindness of Darty, who I'd only met that day, and how kind of important having people around you who could just be kind really. And and that kind of ethos of kindness is what I'm what I mean when I talked about the dressing rooms, just be kind to people. Yeah, yeah. You know, if somebody needs to borrow your hair lacquer, let them, you know, ask if somebody's okay, or you know, tell them their performance was great. You know, just be kind to each other because life is hard. Yeah. And I always try to do the best I can with people. You know, you're not always perfect, you'll always make mistakes. It's an it's part of human nature, but I always try to make sure that we are kind of kind and welcoming at the at the Double R Club and with the charity shows. You know, people, you know, we feed people, we don't pay them at the charity show, but they get they get pizza or that you know, they get their Uber home or they get a drinks token. But we always try and do a little bit of kindness, and and people really appreciate the small things. You don't have to be big grand gestures, kindness can be as small as just telling somebody they look amazing. Yeah. And and I know that as I've gotten older, I will often stop people in the street and say, You look amazing. And um and and kind of like, you know, it's kind of a little bit selfish because it kind of makes you feel good as well because you've taken the time to recognise somebody else on the street. But I I was leaving, I was going back to the house a few months ago, a few years ago, and I saw this older woman, much, much older, you know, white haired, wearing red lipstick, and she looked amazing. And I said to her, I said, I hope you don't mind me telling you, but I think you look amazing. And she was so happy that somebody had kind of stopped her to tell her that. And it's kind of like we should do more of that. Tell people they look nice, even if they don't think it, it will just give them a little bit of a boost. But tell people they look nice, tell them they were great on stage, just be nice.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Because there's so many times isn't that you can see people and you go, Oh, they've got a great outfit, or I love their makeup. And sometimes we just say it internally. If you can get into that habit of saying it externally, like you say, that person might be having a really bad day, and just by you taking the time to just pay a compliment that's genuine that you mean can really make the difference.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Yeah, it really can. It really can. Which is so yeah, it's a good thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

Be nice. I aim to be that like glamorous and fabulous when I get, you know, white haired and I want to still be wearing red lipstick and yeah, red lipstick changes everything. It does, isn't it? It's like your power thing. I always feel like I didn't feel the same when you're getting ready for a show. I don't quite feel I'm ready until the red lip goes off.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

Yeah, so yeah, the red lipstick is always the last thing to go on. Um and then a quick dab of Chanel number five, obviously, um and um and away we go. But Chanel number five, I I know you will wear Chanel number five because of your Marilyn act, but when my mum died, we found ten bottles of Chanel number five and and body lotion and soap, and every year she when my dads would say, What do you want for your birthday or Christmas? She'd say a bottle of Chanel number five. But when she died, it was all there. And um and it's like, Yeah, I'm gonna wear this. So it's you know, and and the other night there, I I said to me, I said to Ben, I said, What what smells do you kind of associate with me? It's something I'd seen on the internet, and and he said, you know, vanilla and and Chanel number five, and it's kind of like that, it's it's there, and it's like there's no point in keeping it for good. Wear it, just wear it. And so I I wear it every day, and I'm on my last bottle of Chanel number five from my mum's stash. Um but you know, she kept it, she kept it in cupboards her whole life, and she should just have worn it.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Yeah, because life's too short, isn't it? And I always say we always have these clothes that we save for best, or get your best perfume, and and it's trying to find the micro moments to celebrate life every day. It's like get dressed up for life, enjoy it. Yeah. Wear the outrageous things. Wear the things that make you happy and make you feel good.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

You know, because it's just gonna put on the red lipstick and the chanel number five, you'll be fine. If we take on the world, I have day red lipstick and nighttime red lipstick. So I have a as so as as you said, I've got a day job and I have red lipstick that's not quite stage red, yeah, but still very much can help lift lift my kind of lift my spirits when I look in a mirror or see myself on a Zoom call. Can kind of lift my spirits. And and and I've started I've started working with a kind of a group of women who are not entertainers, but who are kind of like a marketing group. Um and they um it's called goddess marketing, and it's all women. And I've been with them now since the start of the year, and the kind of the joy they have for each other is really nice. And in a world where, you know, we try really hard in our world to make it kind and nice, and it's nice to be part of another group of women who are all doing the same thing, kind of cheering each other on, applauding each other, saying well done, and and quite often they will all put on the red lipstick before they get on. And it really it kind of always makes me smile.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

And it's important to encourage people, isn't it? Like if you're I guess somebody stuck at home that I didn't quite feel like you've not quite found your tribe or your space of people, to know that there are these communities and spaces out there of women that do uplift each other. And if you put yourself out in the world and try these things, you know, maybe go to a class or go to a show where you can become part of the community.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

Yeah, become a volunteer for Capri versus Cancer. You know, we we've got volunteers who have just moved to London and they volunteer and they come along and they and they make friends and then they look forward to seeing them at the next volunteering opportunity. And and you know, I I was always quiet. I, you know, I I'm you know more comfortable probably in my own company than I am in a big loud room. But it's but it's really exciting to see these kind of real communities of really strong women come together and um and really celebrate each other. And you know, the Cabaret community is very diverse and you know, all genders are are welcome and encouraged, but it's really nice to know that at the heart of it we've all got each other's back.

Chosen Family Through Cabaret

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Yeah. There's something really beautiful in that experience of just knowing that people are there for each other, and that I guess is maybe the sense of community that we need right now. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

And friends, you know, I've made friends through burlesque that I would never have had any other way. You know, you know, you know, people will come over and we'll have a barbecue in the summer. We'll, you know, people will come over and we'll just watch films, and you know, with somebody over the other night there who who I who I met, you know, and and it's kind of like I would never have met you and you know, um without burlesque, and that's that's really important, you know. Um, you know, Sean Mooney, who is kind of like the most extraordinary technical person in the world. And we all love Sean, but you know, Sean, I would never have met without burlesque, and he's an absolute backbone of the charity, of the double R club, of of Cabaret in general. You know, it's kind of like you know, first call, if you can't get something to work, first call, Sean. And and these people are huge parts of my life and and kind of have given me this kind of made family, chosen family that I I would never have had without it. And again, all down to joking.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

We do quite a lot of performers say that backstage of like I guess as per performers and artists in cabaret, we maybe are sometimes the parts of community that feel a little bit different or a little bit unusual, like we don't fit the box. And then you go off into the world of cabaret and you meet these new people that are maybe a little bit more like you, and then you can, like you say, you have your chosen family and just there's the friendships that you build over those years. I mean, some of the people that I've met over the years have become, you know, invaluable friends at the same. I would never have crossed paths with them had I not got into burlesque, and they're people that have inspired me greatly. I'm so you know always appreciative.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

Yeah, it's really important, I think. Your chosen family is really important, and I don't think I really recognised that 20 years ago. But as I've gotten older, I really recognise the people around me and the kind of value that they bring to every part of me.

How The Scene Has Changed

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Would you say that you see the industry? How would you say you see the industry different when you first started in burlesque and cabaret to now? What does it mean to you differently?

SPEAKER_01 48:39

There was a lot less of us. Yes. There was a lot less of us, and we were mostly always at Velopti. Yeah. Um, you go to Velopti for a time for teas um in the after Saturday afternoon and you need your stay and do the evening show. So we spent a lot of time at Valopti, which was an incredible place. Um it was a lot smaller, um, it was it was probably yeah, it certainly wasn't as diverse and as kind of um and diverse as in kind of even subject matter. Um there there was lots of you know it was it was it was it was burlesque and striptease with with a singer, yeah, um, or Matt Ricardo. Um and you know, and and we we weren't as busy, you know, it wasn't something that I don't think probably many of us thought was a career. Um I'd always thought if I could get down to working four days a week, it would be a win. It's never happened. Um and and so it was it was you would you would see the same faces, you would know everybody. Um it was it was it was a tiny little world, um certainly in London, we were a tiny little group of people. We um, you know, we had the um, you know, we all went through Joe King and you know, so we had Time for Teas, so with and then we had the the Teas Maids, we had Bestival, which was through Time for Teas, we had the Velopte shows in the evening, there was a few other little shows here and there, Beth Mill Green doing shows, um Whoopi doing shows, but it was a really quite a small community and um and it I I mean there probably was, but I I remember there just not really being any kind of ego or kind of competition, and I think competition is there now, and I don't think competition was quite so prominent in those days. I think we had our kind of like our icons, you know, Polly Ray was an icon, you know, um, but then there was a lot of us who were doing it to be a better version of them, and um and yeah, it was it was just it was a different world, it was much more analogue, I think. I think we probably still have a box of CDs where you had to take a CD to show us how to do that. Yeah, so you had to take your CDs and um and you know, and yeah, it was it was yeah, I think I would describe it more analogue, but it but kind, really, really kind. And even though a lot of the girls I started performing with kind of you know 18, 19 years ago, a lot of them, or probably all of them, but maybe a handful, have stopped performing. And so, you know, but they're I still see them on Instagram and I'll send them a message and you know reach out to them here and there, you know. But there are still a few kind of icons kicking around. Fancy chance has been around for a long time. And one of the per the first kind of neo burlesque performers that I saw, and she is inspiring and awesome, and you know, she is everything that you know you you would want to be as as a grown-up. She her performance is incredible, and um, so it's it yeah, it's it was much more analogue, it's now much more competitive, I think. Yeah, and um and I do often think, are we just passing the same 50 quid around? Um but um but really you know a life-changing kind of group of people for me.

SPEAKER_00 51:56

And it's grown and evolved so much, burlesque, hasn't it? You know, I had the honour and pleasure of being in the industry, maybe it's gotta be like 14 years now. And so, yeah, I've seen lots of changes over the years, and that you know, and not you know as long as you guys, but it's grown and it's evolved and it's become more colourful, and I just hope that we never lose the community and the kindness and the fun that we all started it for, you know. That was always the for me personally to get into it was like the fun of it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

And I love watching a good strip tease artist. Yeah. I love watching tease, and and and that's the thing that I don't think 16-year-old me would ever even have thought of. But I love watching strip tease and and that moment where you know, whether it's a glove or a stocking or you know, uh the shoulder of a dress, that kind of tease. And and Betsy Bonbon, who works with the Double R Club quite a lot, I've she's been around as long longer than me. And watching Betsy perform is a real kind of masterclass in tease because she is hot as anything and can make taking off a pair of woolly tights at the double R Club still something that's absolutely just joyful to watch. So I love watching teas.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

I love um her is it the tea great British teapot uh ballested act is great. Yeah, I love Betsy. She was on um an evening of ballesse for us for many years when I first started. Yeah, she was on the show, and I remember standing in the wings and watching her and the folly mixtures and just being in awe of these women and just be like, Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

Yeah, they're like, Yeah, incredible stuff, incredible stuff. But yeah, Joe, and Joe is at the heart of it all.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

Yeah, Joe is at the heart of it all. And so many people forget that, don't they? Like so many of us, Joe has touched so and if we feel like we did it, they're quite Joe, we love you. We haven't said it enough, but yeah, she's touched so many people's lives in the industry. Yeah. I always think when people go to learn balles, they should learn from as many different teachers as they can, but also seek some of the people that have been in the industry a long time, um, because they'll have such a depth of wealth and knowledge that they can share with you in a way that you wouldn't get if you'd learnt from somebody that maybe has been doing it five years and both are equal and valid. Absolutely. Um, but you to if you want to kind of learn a lot of different varieties of skills.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

Yeah, it's not a competition, but it's the more the more kind of reference points you can have, the better.

SPEAKER_00 54:27

The more you can expose yourself to, isn't it? Because I remember when I was first interested in Bellas, I used to just go to as many shows as I could, and I always say that to people if like if you're inspired by the industry and you want to know more about it or be part of it, or you think you might want to be to a performer, just go to as many shows as you can find and really get the feel and the essence of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Yeah, find your show because you know the double R Club will not be for everybody. Um, you know, it it's been a while since we've had somebody faint. Um but maybe it hasn't, maybe it's quite it's happened quite a lot. It's happened quite a lot. It happened a lot with um yeah, it happened a lot. People faint when they see um blood, whether real or fake, on stage. Um so yeah, but you know, find your show. As I said, it won't always be the Double R Club because it is, you know, it it isn't like your usual kind of show. And um and and go make friends with people, you know, be a stage kitten, be a stage manager, you know, help backstage, you know, do do what you can to help people because you'll learn a lot by being a stage manager or by saying, Can I help you come and you know sell merch or what can I do? Get involved because if it will only be a community if we recognize that we that a community needs all different parts to work. We can't all be driver's seats. Yeah, you need to have everything, you need to have the people who will prop you up, you need to have the you need to have the Sean's who do the tech stuff, you need to have the you know, the the Louise and the Karen's who kind of stage manage, you need to have the dressmakers, you know, you need to have everybody and you need somebody to help serve the drinks and to stamp people into buildings. And it takes everybody, you know. I think it was it takes a village to bring up a child, it takes a village to put on a show. And you know, and you can help.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

Yeah, yeah, you can help. Again, isn't it? Be a service. Yeah. Be part of it, get involved and champion it along the way. And and hopefully people would discover lots of beautiful things about themselves by opening up their curiosity.

SPEAKER_01 56:28

Yeah, and and you can find out, you know what, late nights aren't for me. Um, or you can say, actually, what else can I do? I want to get really involved, you know, or you know, I'm often finding with young people, um, they're saying, I can help you with your TikTok. Yeah. Which is great because I do not understand it. I just don't understand it. And so everybody has a different skill to bring to the to bring to the game, and um and there'll be something that somebody else does that I can't do. So just offer up.

Advice For Your First Class

SPEAKER_00 56:59

Just find your little unique skill, even if you don't know what it is yet. I guess if you had some advice, if you what would be if somebody was thinking about trying a burlesque class for the first time and they were maybe a little bit nervous or a little bit unsure, yeah. What would be your advice?

SPEAKER_01 57:17

Stand in the front row. Don't stand in the back row because all you'll do is compare yourself to everybody else in the room. Stand in the front row because then you won't compare yourself to anybody because you can't see them. So if it's your that's what I would say because that's what I did on my second week with Joe. First week, stood at the back, compared myself to everybody. Second week, Joe said, Come and stand up front.

SPEAKER_02 57:37

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

And um, yeah, my my biggest piece of advice if you're going to your first burlesque class, stand up front.

unknown 57:44

Just give it a few.

SPEAKER_01 57:45

Stand up front. You don't need to wear heels, you can wear flat shoes, you can wear bare feet, you can wear ballet slippers. You know, you don't have to, you don't have to wear heels so you can't walk in. You be comfortable, um be hydrated. But be be comfortable, be you, and stand in the front.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

Stand in the front. That's a good one. That is good advice. I should try and remember that. If I ever take any classes or lessons now, I'm gonna be like, stand at the front.

SPEAKER_01 58:09

Yeah. Or or or if you're teaching, you know, look look for the person who's hiding up the back and check in with them because maybe they are out of their depth, maybe they're scared, maybe they don't feel good about themselves, and just encourage them. So I think there's lessons for both teachers and students. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

We had um the madam was on uh the last episode of Behind Bales, and they said something that really resonated with me, and I thought it was such a great quote. And they said, Don't paddle in your fear, swim in it. Oh, that's nice. And it's literally sat with me for weeks now, and I'm like, Where am I paddling in my fear where I need to swim in it? And I think that's a really kind of great way of conceptualising it. Where you know, don't just dip a toe.

SPEAKER_01 58:49

Yeah, just you know, you know nobody's gonna die from doing a burlesque performance. Um it's unlikely you're gonna die doing a burlesque performance. But um, you know, just you know, try. Just try. Um, but really I I would say to students stand in the front row and to teachers, look out for that person who's at the back because maybe they're just scared, unhappy, out of their depths, maybe don't like themselves, and you've got a responsibility to encourage the best of them.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

I also say to people as well, like to even if you're nervous on the first class, go back for the second one. Yeah, so absolutely. Yeah, I went back. Yeah, because it's different, isn't it? The f I think the first time you ever try and learn something new can be so overwhelming, can't you? And then you go the second time and you're kind of like, oh, okay. And by the third time, you're like, oh, not as scary as I thought. Yeah. You kind of have to say to people, like push them past your fears, isn't it? And keep showing up.

SPEAKER_01 59:43

Keep showing up, and you know, I'm not a dancer, I you know, I'm not in, you know, elegant and graceful on the on the you know, but I I do me. Yeah, you know, and I think the worst thing you can do, and I often have to tell myself this is compare yourself to other people. It's hard because we do it all the time, but as I said, I I nearly didn't go back. Um, but I did go back and changed my life.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

Yeah, and you and you've created such a legacy in the industry and the community, and we're very grateful. And I'm so grateful that you came and spent some time with me today. I'm really glad to. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:19

It's always nice to get dressed up in the middle of the day.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:21

It's lovely, isn't it? Extra glam, and I love your hair. Oh, I think it was gorgeous. Did you make that yourself?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

No, I bought this from uh uh an artist called um Pearls and Swine.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

Lovely.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:32

Um and yeah, it's very much a kind of signature thing is wearing a rose crown. Um and balances everything out nicely.

Sponsorship Gift And Final Thanks

SPEAKER_00 1:00:40

It's gorgeous. Thank you. Well, today's episode was sponsored by Crystal Parade, our fabulous sparkly go-to. So because we were discussing earlier as well about before we came on air of how early on in burlesque we didn't have crystals. It was all sequence.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

Yeah, all sequins. My first my first costume, all sequence.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

And it's changed so much now because now we rhinestone the hell out of everything and anything that sits still.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

Yeah, yeah. My first pasties were were sequins, probably my second pasties were sequins. Adora Bell then started kind of making my pasties, and hers were all crystalled, and it's kind of like these are incredible. But it was it was sequence, sequence, sequence. I think I uh yeah, sequence is at the heart of probably many a suitcase, probably still has bits of sequence in it rather than um rogue, rogue gems.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:33

Gonna haunt you for life. Yeah. But Crystal Parade are a fantastic um go-to uh company if you want to sparkle something. So they've let me uh sparkle you a wonderful gift. Here we are. I forgot where I put it then. So here we are. Oh my goodness, that's beautiful. What an amazing colour. So for everybody listening that's not watching YouTube, it's a teal. Do you call it teal? Yeah. Beautiful. My goodness, I think they were Aqua SS10 crystals from Crystal Parade.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

Big crystal in the middle. That's that's quite fancy. It's beautiful. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

You're most welcome. But thank you so much for joining us. Oh, my pleasure, Mella. Sharing your story. And I've been really inspired, and I hope everybody at home has. And just remind everybody where they can find you and the charity.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:25

Um so the Double R Club is on Instagram, which is the R R Club. You'll find that there. Um, where we have shows every month in Walthamstow. And um Cabri vs Cancer is Cabary VS Cancer on Instagram and our website. Um, but if you search for Cabaret versus Cancer on Google, you should find us. Um I am I am Miss Rose Thorne on Instagram, but it's mostly just pictures of my cat. Mostly pictures of the cat. Um, but yeah, if you reach out to us at the Double R Club um on Instagram or at Cabaret versus Cancer, the message will always get to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:58

Perfect. Well, thank you. It's been an honor to sit and cheat with you. And let's hope that we can get Cabaret versus Cancer to the target of half a million.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

Yeah, we will get there. We will get there. But if anybody's listening who happens to have a big barrel of money under the sofa, just tell, just give me a call.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:14

Just give me a call. Just give me a call. Well, it's been a pleasure, and I wish you all the luck and success going forward. And I look forward to seeing you again at some shows. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:24

Yeah, great. Thank you very much. Most welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:27

Thank you for watching and listening to Behind Burlesque. I've been speaking to the wonderful Rose Thorne today from Cabaret vs Cancer. If you've enjoyed the episode, make sure you give us a like, share it with your friends, leave us a comment, tell us what you loved about the show. Today's show has been sponsored by Crystal Parade, but I'd also really love you to go and check out Cabaret vs. Cancer and the amazing work that they do. And I look forward to seeing you all next time.