No One Died When I Did The Reveal

Burlesque looks effortless when it’s done well, but the real story is what happens before the spotlight hits. I’m Isabella Bliss, and I’m joined by the brilliant Lindsay McGlone, a producer, performer, and stage manager with over a decade in the burlesque and cabaret industry. From her very first show as a stage kitten to building rooms where marginalised voices are centred, Lindsay brings the kind of grounded honesty that makes you rethink what “performance” really means. 

We talk about the craft that audiences rarely notice: backstage etiquette, why stage management can make you a stronger performer, and how one small shift like slowing down can turn an act into a genuine connection. Lindsay also shares the vulnerable side of the work, from body image and fat phobia to the pressure to fit a stereotype just to get booked. Her take on confidence is refreshingly practical: it isn’t only about how you look, it’s about how you hold yourself, how you create safety, and how you make people feel in a live room. 

We also get into the business of burlesque, because creatives run businesses whether or not anyone wants to give us that respect. Lindsay breaks down boundaries, communication tools like “tone check”, and why she now defines success as choice. You’ll hear how Reclaim Means Business connects burlesque with the wider business world, puts money back into the scene, and helps grow new audiences for live performance. If you care about burlesque, cabaret, live theatre, and the people behind the sparkle, hit subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave us a review so more listeners can find the show.

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Lindsay

SPEAKER_02 0:01

It's not just feathers and fishnets. Welcome to the real world behind the sparkle. I'm Isabella Bliss, international performer, Marilyn Monroe Tribute, coach and lifelong lover of sequins and storytelling. Each month I sit down with performers, producers, creatives, and the beautiful misfits that are shaping our world. We talk career highlights, backstage lows, body image, empowerment, and everything in between. If you're a performer, a fan, or just curious about what really happens behind the curtain, you're in the right place. Hit follow for your monthly dose of two-proof tassels and behind the scenes brilliance. Today's episode is proudly sponsored by Crystal Parade for all your sparkly needs. My wonderful guest today is the incredible Lindsay McLean. She's a producer, performer, and stage manager who has been in the burlesque industry for over 10 years. Lindsay actively champions creatives being seen, heard and respected by other industries. She particularly does this through her event Reclaimed Means Business, which brings together business and burlesque. Lindsay is known for challenging fat phobia and centralising, centering marginalised voices on her stages. So please welcome to the show, Lindsay. Hello.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

I'm very excited. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

I'm really excited for you to be here because I've seen so much of you online. So to actually see you here in person, I'm like, what's it?

SPEAKER_00 1:31

I hope I don't disappoint you.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Um it's just honestly, thank you so much for taking time out of your day and joining us on the show. I'm sure you have so much to share with our wonderful listeners, and I'm really grateful. And I love your outfit.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Thank you. You wouldn't think I got changed five minutes ago, Naloo, would you? That showbiz.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

But I'm really honestly, thank you so much. And I kind of want to hear from you, your story from the very beginning. So, what do you remember the moment when you first discovered Belleth?

SPEAKER_00 2:04

I do. Um, so it wasn't intentional. I wasn't looking for it. Um, I was actually introduced to it by Tony Kaye. Um, so Tony Kaye is a producer and performer. She co-produces Highway to Hull. Um, and we're related. So we're cousins. And it was around 10 and a half years ago. Um, she messaged me. I had a theatre background and she was producing her first show. Needed a stage kitten at that time, and said, Hello, you've got stage experience. Um, and it's not that we didn't get on, but we didn't talk a lot at that time. It was just a genuine I need help. Um and I said, Yeah, brilliant. So did my first show. Um, shout out to Trixie Pash, that is the person I learned how to stage manage burlesque shows from. And I just became obsessed with it. And also mine and Tawny's relationship grew, and we're extremely close now. And to see the industry from a backstage perspective before performing and producing was really interesting, and I'm actually really grateful for that because I think that every performer should stage manage at least once. Yeah. Because you consider things that you'd never considered from just for just performing alone. So I'm actually really happy that I entered through stage management, producing, and then performing.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Yeah, and it's a great way, isn't it, for people to learn about the industry. If you like, if you you're thinking of dipping a toe, but you're not quite sure that you're ready to get on stage yet, but you want to be part of that scene in the community and learn something. And I always think like you learn so much from watching others, and by positioning yourself by being helpful and being a stage kitten or a producer on a show like

Stage Managing And Backstage Respect

SPEAKER_02 3:50

that, you can be there to learn so much from others, and that's like the best way, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Yeah, absolutely. And stage management as well with burlesque. What I love is there's such a core part of the production and the show. Yeah, from the way that we show up when we're on stage, even as stage managers, you know, some theatre shows do encourage, you know, black theatre wear. But a lot of shows, when you're stage managing, you're encouraged to be part of that experience as well. So if you're wanting to dip your toe into burlesque to be able to spend that time as a stage manager or a stage kitten, is invaluable. And also because it's live theatre and we break that fourth wall consistently, you really do experience a little bit of what it's like to be on stage. And it's just, I am I love stage managing. I don't do it as much anymore at all, really, but I do like to do it a few times a year just to like re-remind myself of what that experience is like, keep myself like keep me on my toes, things change, and just having the chance to be a part of it, but not be in it as such. Like I'm so grateful for every time that I was able to stage manage everybody that's ever booked me for stage management, like so grateful.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Yeah. And we were saying in last month's episode, I had Rose Thorne on, and we were talking about um stage managers and stage kittens and all the backstage people that actually make a show happen, and how they're such an integral part of the show itself. Like we couldn't do it without those people, and how important it is to be nice and kind to those people because they have the capacity to you know make or break your act.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Yeah, and also to make no assumptions. So I have been in rooms before where people have made assumptions based on status or where they think that people are in the scene or how respected they are in the scene, and I think it's important to remember to make no assumptions and treat everybody equally because you don't know the stage manager that's working on your show that night may also be a producer, which is the situation I'm in. So I will always see oh, that sounds a bit loaded. But I have seen really bad backstage etiquette, and I will then not go on to book those people because I know what that experience is like to have them backstage. Um, and equally I've seen um performers who have gone out of their way to thank stage managers, come back to them and say thank you for all your help tonight. Like when I'm a very intricate stage manager, so if a nail pops off in your act, I'm finding it. Yeah, like a sequin from your favourite necklace, a jewel from it, I'm gonna find it. And I always remember the people that are really appreciative, and it makes such a difference to the whole experience.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

Yeah, for everybody, doesn't it? It just makes it a nice warm community backstage, which is makes the show front stage so much better, and I think more people need to realise that, don't they?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Yeah, absolutely. It's the whole experience for everyone involved.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

So, what was the kind of catalyst for you from being you kind of stage managing and seeing that experience from that side? What made you then want to become a performer, also?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

I think so. I was producing my first in real life show. So in lockdown,

Lockdown Shows To First Performance

SPEAKER_00 7:05

I perform I produced two shows called Big Fat Burlesque. Um all the performers were paid. We had over a hundred attendees to both shows, we were tipped, and it went extremely well. And the reason I did it through lockdown is because I was working through lockdown and I saw so many of my performer friends who just had their income taken away from them literally overnight. So created an online show, knew that I could um commit to a fee, and it, you know, it wasn't a massive fee, but it was a fee, it was something. I knew that I could commit to a fee, and then we were going to do tickets on top of that and donations on top of that. So I did the lockdown shows, they went extremely well. When we came out of lockdown, I wanted to do that in person. So at the time I was living in Hereford, which had moved from Doncaster to Hereford, and Hereford is an interesting place, and there's not much representation, queer representation, diverse voices. So created a show and it was called Reclaimed. So Reclaim means business is an extension of the show, and I was like, if I'm gonna perform at any show, it needs to be my own show. So ridiculously, and people have probably done this, I decided to produce my first ever show and perform for the first ever time. The stress, yeah. Um, and it was interesting. I cobbled it together, I would say. I I learnt, you know, I'd been to lessons, I'd been to lessons throughout my stage managing workshops and things like that. I'd gone to lessons with Tony Kay, but I'd not really I'd not given my full self to it. Now, what happened was I had a one-to-one with Ruby Three Wise Jones, and I was still um in an aring as to whether to get on stage. My costume didn't fit, it looked ridiculous, I felt silly. And Ruby said to me, if somebody was to take the opportunity away from you to perform on, I think it was Saturday, it was like Thursday, would you be annoyed? And I said, Yeah, and they said perform. Yeah, and I'm so glad I did. I'm so glad I did. The how I used to perform and how I perform now are polar opposites, but I'm so glad I got that experience of being on stage and just doing it, yeah. And I think that's my biggest advice to people who do want to perform. Your first entity of any act is not going to be your final entity.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

And people are waiting now because the calibra, you know, 10 years ago, people were showing up in ruffle skirts and corsets that weren't rhinestone and things like that, and that was absolutely fine. And and now people are seeing the calibra that's coming out, especially new performers with excellently definely created costumes, perfect choreo, perfect hair and makeup, and thinking, how can I step on a stage and match that? Just give it a go.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Obviously, learn learn the etiquette, the history, but initially, that first time that you step on stage is never going to be your final entity. And I learned very quickly that that was definitely not the final entity for me.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

Do you remember what that feeling was like the first time you ever stepped on stage and did it?

SPEAKER_00 10:22

The adrenaline was ridiculous. My heart was pounding, and I'm quite a confident person on stage. Do public speaking, you know, karaoke get me on there. But for me, my biggest insecurity actually is my chest. So that was the bit that I was terrified about doing, and it's still something I work on to this day that don't just do the reveal and then run off stage. But the first time I did it, I it was exhilarating. I was like, well, I've done it now, and everybody's seen my biggest insecurity, and no one died.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

Yeah, there's something so like freeing about that, isn't there? Just standing there and being unapologetically yourself in front of a room full of strangers and celebrating yourself and that connection with those people.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Yeah, absolutely. And it's a definite connection. I think that's what's so important about Bill S for me is there's a connection between the person on the stage and the people in the audience. We are experiencing a mutual experience that can be never experienced again because no act is ever performed the same way. Yeah, you cannot get it absolutely the same way every time. So that is every show is a once-in-a-lifetime experience. And I think so many performers, audience members, and producers, we forget that. And rightfully so, we're busy, like we're tired. But if you actually think about it, that experience, every single show will never get back ever again.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

That's always what we say to people, isn't it? The magic of live theatre and live cabaret and live performance art can never be replaced because it is just such that unique moment and bubble in time that you will never share again. And there's something so like sacred about sharing that with people, you know. We you don't can't get that at home watching TV, and and it's not quite the same, I think, when you go to traditional theatre as well, where everything is choreographed and scripted down to the T and has to be a certain way every night. In Cabaret and Berlesque, there is that kind of freedom that things can be a little bit more playful or more of a dialogue with your audience, and that's the beautiful uniqueness of it, I think.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Yeah, absolutely. It's the experience of experiencing a show both from being on stage and watching it, is literally one of my favourite things to do. It's where I feel most at home in those spaces, um because of the people and the history and the the creativity and the outlet. It there is there really is nothing like it, and it's nice to be reminded of that.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

And it's nice to remember that yourself, isn't it? I always think when I step on stage performing in burlesque and cabaret, it's like I try and think of everybody that came before me throughout the period of history that made this art form possible and what it is today, and that it continues to grow today and advocate and represent more more and more people. And it's always been the kind of like I think of it as like the naughty little cousin of musical theatre, because it kind of always was on the edge challenging all the politics and the the narratives of the day, and I like that kind of fact that we get to honour that heritage, and it's really important, I think, that we do and like you say, study the history of of burlesque and cabaret and know the legends and the legacies and why we do what we do. Like it's not about just standing up on stage and taking off pretty costumes, there is so much more to it and more grit to it

Stage Names And Reclaiming Narrative

SPEAKER_02 13:55

than that. Um it's magical. I love being a part of it.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

I do as well.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

So, what did you what you did you have a stage name when you first started? Yeah. What was it?

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Telling you stage name. My stage name. So I remember thinking, what's my name gonna be? What's my name gonna be? Um, and I like to play on comedy. Well, I thought I did, yeah, interestingly. I thought I did. Uh obviously, I'm a plus size person. I prefer the term fat, so I'm just gonna use the term fat. That's not for everybody, but for me, I prefer the term fat. So I'm a fat person, and I wanted to play on that, so like noshing. So that was the first thing, and then my favourite resident at work at the time was called Nora. And I was like, Nora Nosh, it kind of works. And the first routine I ever did was an attempt at comedy. And what I will say, comedy is one of the hardest things to do, it is ridiculously difficult. And how I thought I could just roll up and do a comedy act for my first act and do it justice when I didn't put enough practice in, I don't know why I thought that, but still I did it. So my initial name was Nora Nosh. Um, and I performed with that name for about 18 months. I didn't perform long at all. I only had one act, so obviously getting booked with one act is more difficult. Um, and then Mama Joe, when I was gonna perform again, just messaged me very politely and said, I don't think Nora Nosh is your name. I don't think that's reflective of who you are, um, and I'm just gonna leave that with you. And I was like, Well, I've got to listen because I've been given advice from a literal legend. Yeah. So I've got to listen.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

You take Mama Joe tells you something, you take it on the water.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

You've got to do it. So I'm sat thinking, well, what can my name be? Because it's Nora Nosh, and I'm quite stubborn. Um and I came up with Lot of Mass, so that's my performer name now, um, with the kind of ideas of like body mass. So that's where a lot of mass came from. And also I just think it sounds so much better. And also when I I when I came back to performing recently, it's a new entity of how I wish to perform, and it's completely different to how I used to perform. And I'm so grateful I got called in for my own bullshit because I was trying to be the funny fat performer because that was a narrative that I saw plus size hosts and plus size funny performers, and that was her place. Now, and I'm also conscious that people may listen to this and think, so is that all burlesque? But bodies of all different shapes and sizes are celebrated in burlesque, and also there are still an existence of stereotypes and what is preferred to be on stages, and still there's fat phobia within burlesque, and that's I subscribe to that narrative because I just wanted to get my foot through the door. So, actually, reclaiming how I perform now, the new name, the new style, slowing down even these simple things that make such a difference. I'm so grateful that Mama Jo told me to change my name. I'm so grateful. And Tawny told me to slow down. Just slow down when you're on stage, Lindsay, slow down.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

I think there's something that happens in the excitement on stage when you're new, isn't it? You kind of get a little bit like buzzy and you're running around stage and flinging things everywhere, and you're just having a great time. And it's definitely something that you learn, I think, as a skill as a performer. And when somebody reflects it back to you, or you watch yourself back, and there's we talk about like the power in the pause and just holding those moments, giving that little bit more of a slow connection with your audience can be so incredibly powerful, doesn't it?

The Power Of The Pause

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Yeah, absolutely. There's a moment in um my acts that I perform now, and I'm getting ready to do another act as well, so that I am more bookable. But the acts that I perform now since I've come back to Burles from September last year, so not actually that long at all. Um there are moments of pause that I just never would have considered. And actually, when I watch that back there, it's always my favourite moments. And you'll feel like you're well, not to seasoned professionals, but I felt like I was doing literally nothing but standing on stage, and I was like, surely this doesn't work. And it is those moments of connection, it's those six seconds that you share with the audience that you give them um you give them attention, that you give them eye contact, that they feel like the only person that you're performing to is them in the room. They are the special moments because actually, so many audience members, they're not coming to see how you look, they're being there to be made to feel a certain way. So, how we make them feel is so much more important than what they think we look like, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Really? And it just gives that breath, doesn't it? To just take that pause and just really yeah, it's a true connection, isn't it? To just stand there. The power of doing nothing and just staring at your audience and have them stare at you, it's just really honest and real, and just there's something magnetic about that, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Yeah, definitely. And when you do it with confidence as well, there's a definite, you can feel that difference and that ease because also your audience want to feel safe with you. Yeah, yeah. So I'm not saying that don't ever perform if you're not confident because we all start somewhere, but when that confidence grows and the audience can feel it, they naturally feel so much safer with you, and that's something that I've started to notice that my audiences now that see me perform, I can tell they feel safer with me because they trust what I'm doing on stage, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Because you trust what you're doing on stage, and that's I guess from stagecraft and experience and being in the industry and and the repetitiveness of keep there's something that you can't necessarily teach people that you have to learn as a skill through actively being on stage, isn't it? Of like holding that space, connecting with your audience, feeling truly safe in yourself so you can then you know share that safety with others.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

What would you say is the biggest difference between your first performing style and your performing style now?

SPEAKER_00 20:32

I think the biggest difference for me is that my first performing style was quite chaotic. It was very high energy and entertaining, but not technically thought out. I'm still not a highly technical performer in any sense of the means, but there wasn't consideration, and I'd got the act, and I was like, that's my act now, and I didn't really work on improving it or making it any better. I I was naive and I didn't treat it with the respect that it deserved. So I had the entity, I had the act, I performed how I performed, and that was me done. Whereas now I'm refining, refining, refining, thinking where I can catch those extra moments of attention with the audience, where I can really have that stillness, or add some techniques in, or use my weird body shape to actually enhance the experience, things like that. That is so much difference, and also how I treat myself. I didn't realise how much I lacked actual core body confidence until I restarted performing, and now I watch myself back from how I used to perform. And I firstly I look really young, um, and secondly, you can just tell that I'm not there, I'm enjoying the experience in the adrenaline. But like the way that I interact with my own body to how I interact with my own body now, there's a definite difference in that.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Is that something that you've achieved through what would you say has helped you achieve that? Is it an age thing, a life experience? Like what would be the work?

SPEAKER_00 22:20

I think taking time to because I talk a lot about self-advocacy, fat phobia, body confidence, body positivity, like people will see me out in the space doing that. And I realized I was advocating so hard for other people, and and I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me, like I'm not sorry, but I forgot about me, and I wanted diverse representation, but I actually forgot how I treated my own body, and also um reclaiming my sexuality, my own sensuality, all these things have made a massive impact, and also having a really good teacher working with Tony, even though we have that outside relationship. When I work with Tony, it is definitely a teacher student relationship. And I have sobbed at lessons, absolutely sobbed, saying that I can't do it, I can't look at myself, things like that. Just because I feel silly, it's not necessarily a direct reflection of my shape or my body type, it's feeling silly. I don't know, I can't describe it. And before I did my re-debut the night before we did a dress rehearsal, and I just couldn't do it, I just could not do it. And Tony has this way of she is comforting, but also she's quite stern. And she was like, We're here to we're here to do it, we're gonna do it, we're gonna do it, and I'm so grateful to have somebody that I can be so vulnerable with because that's what we're doing on stage. We are being vulnerable, so I think having a really good teacher

Body Confidence Beyond The Body

SPEAKER_00 24:00

as well, yeah, that definitely helps.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

So, how has Burlesh changed your relationship with your body and how you see yourself?

SPEAKER_00 24:09

I think it's changed my relationship with my body in the sense of so I'm I'm not uncomfortable with my physical form. But actually true body confidence is not just the physical form, it's how you hold yourself, how you walk around a space, it's you know, if it's accessible to you, it's your posture, it's um how you it's just that whole sense of actual confidence in in who you are as well, not just your body. Yeah, and they come so hand in hand. And I think I used to be confident in my body because I didn't care, I almost didn't have respect, so I was confident in the what people thought of me, but now I have a respect for my body, I have a respect for myself and the work that I've done to be comfortable in who I am, and that respect is the shift, and that is partly to do with burlesque. When I originally came back to performing again, my relationship had just broke down. Um, we had to sell the house and things like that, and I just completely lost who I was. And the first thing I did was book those burlesque lessons again because I knew that it would give me something, even if I were never to perform again. So even though it's hard to describe and it's hard for anybody to understand who isn't a performer, burlesque just does something that is indescribable for you and your confidence as a whole being, not just your physical form.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

Yeah. It helps you unlock and find that way back to like a true, free, liberated part of yourself that like when they say like the inner child in you that like wants to come out and play.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Yeah, the joy. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

That we kind of like we spend so much time suppressing in modern life, isn't it? Whereas I think burlesque and cabaret and the creative arts like that gives you full permission to like, oh just let the little child out, let the joy out and have fun with that, and that kind of really changes and shapes your life in such a I don't know, like imp empowering's the wrong word because I feel like we throw it around a lot, but like everything's empowering, yeah. It's just like it's just permission to be, yeah, this like joyous part of you and share that with others, yeah. And and build those like human

What Burlesque Really Is

SPEAKER_02 26:45

connections.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

How would you kind of explain burlesque um to somebody that uh doesn't know what it is or has never seen burlesque?

SPEAKER_00 26:54

So, how would I describe burlesque? Well, I have my personal preference of burlesque, and I do think all producers have a preference. I'm going on a bit of a tangent here, but I think it's important to say that all producers have like a preference of how they describe burlesque and what they enjoy seeing, and we quote, should be producing shows for our audience, not just our preference, but of course, our preferences style comes into that. For me, burlesque is hugely political, and I prefer generally politically driven acts. I also know that as somebody with a lot of privilege and also margin marginalization, but I do also know as somebody with a lot of privilege to just booked acts on their political, the politically driven acts, there's also something in that that's not quite right as well, but I do prefer the pushing boundaries, the neo-burlesque, the burlesque that kind of shocks people and excites people in the best possible way. And also classic burlesque does that as well. It's just a personal preference. So I guess how would I describe burlesque to people who haven't seen it? It's a live experience that you you can't experience anywhere else. Um it's I always say to people, ah, I always say to people who are new to burlesque who I'm trying to convince to come to burlesque shows, especially in the business space, because that's where I hang out a lot and I with my event as well. There's a humility in taking clothes off on stage, and also people are almost worried being in the audience that they're going to feel really uncomfortable, and some people will. But you don't just see somebody taking their clothes off, and also there's nothing wrong with somebody just taking their clothes off. But you don't, that's not what you see. You see an act, you see a story, you see liberation, performance, joy. It is so much more than simply taking items of clothing off. But I want to be very clear that just taking items of clothing off is absolutely okay as well. But for those people who are new to it, it's a joyous experience. That's that's the only way I can really. I'm not really giving a description, I'm just saying words that I think about the less. But that's how I would describe it to people.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Because it is that you say it's one of those tricky things that's really hard to explain. You kind of want people just to come along and see it and try it and experience it and come with an open heart and an open mind of like you say that some people do think it is just it's just striptease, and you're like, Well, some of it is, and okay, what's wrong with that? Like, exactly. What's wrong with a little bit of like to say this word? I thought I can say this word, it's mastero, titillation. Yeah, like we're allowed a little bit of titillation in life, and that's okay. Absolutely, um, as well as everything else that it encompasses. Um, but it's kind of like it stops the suppression of our sexuality that we experience so much in modern culture, which I'm really surprised. Like, I feel like we kind of entered an age where sexuality and expression became acceptable and okay, and almost like we are entering a bit of a pullback at the minute, yeah, which is really and I I think sometimes that's when burlesque like comes at its best because you know the whole art form at one point was to kind of be against that suppression of sexuality and expression and stuff. So kind of maybe like we'll see another little resurgence as kind of the society gets oppressed, a need for it, yeah, like a need for what we do, yeah. Definitely, it's really important. Can you think of a moment where you were on stage or in work with your business where you thought this is exactly where I'm meant to be?

SPEAKER_00 30:57

I think when I produced my first ever live show, that I the there was nothing there's nothing that has ever matched that feeling. Um and it these factors are not what dominates a good experience, but we sold out 170 tickets in a uh city that I wasn't from, and the cast was incredible, and I performed somewhat of a routine, and and that show gave Hereford something that they didn't have. And the moment where I walked out at the end and I had these silly ballet shoes on because I didn't bring any like footwear for the curtain call. All I was remembering is that I was producing a show, I was performing, and then I'd had a curtain call, I didn't even think about it. So I had this silver dress on that just it nothing fitted me right. My hair were all over, my makeup had just come off my face. But I walked out and Pinky Taboo was hosting and brought me on as Nora Nosh, which was the first like the first experience of coming onto a show like that, um, being introduced as Nora Nosh, and the audience, all if they were able to, just stood. And at that moment, it wasn't necessarily the applause, it was the absolute feeling that I'd just created something that was going to be so important that was going to change something for somebody, yeah. And that was the moment that I was like, this is the right thing for me to do 100%.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

That's amazing. What a great feeling. If you could bottle that feeling off and keep it.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Oh my gosh, I know we'd all be millionaires.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

Is there something about life behind the sparkle that might surprise listeners that they don't expect that we can deal with, I guess?

SPEAKER_00 32:59

There's

Rejection Bias And Hidden Labour

SPEAKER_00 33:00

a lot of rejection in burlesque. There is comradeship and our community, there's also the other side. Like every other industry, there is conflict, there is um bias, especially towards people of a certain size. There are some producers who I know would never book somebody of my size, and it's quite interesting because when a person who's marginalised and underrepresented in the community advocates for a marginalised and underrepresented community, they believe producers believe all the outward, and when I say producers, it's like the royal we, you know. I'm not saying this one producer, but I'm a producer myself, so I'm talking about myself as well. They think we're trying to say book us, because I'm a fat performer, so I'm advocating for fat performers, but I'm not saying book me, I'm saying put representation on your stages. So I think that needs to be remembered. So there's that side of it, and also the amount of skill that a performer has that goes beyond literally the stage is unreal. Some of the most tenacious people I know, most creative, most intelligent, um, most resilient, and that word's a bit of a word, but performers are incredible, incredible people. Creatives are incredible, incredible people, and so many times we are looked down on because we don't own what people see as a reputable business or a reputable self-employment. But actually, the way that we can adapt-that's another thing, adapt, navigate situations is like something I've never seen before.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

And I exist in the business space as well, the typical business space. So I think I want people to understand that it's we don't rock up, perform, or we're your talent at your corporate gig. I mean, I would never be put for corporate anyway, but actually, performers and creatives are second to none in their ability, like phenomenal, phenomenal humans, and that should never be taken away from who we are.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

There's just so much behind the scenes, isn't it? People think, oh, you just get on stage and put a costume on and dance to a bit of music, and it's like you're the choreographer, you're the costume maker, you're the finance department, you're the PR team, you're the marketer, like you're every aspect of that, and those that you say, those skills often get overlooked because people kind of like and I've heard people say it to me, Oh, it must be so hard just getting on stage and being pretty for 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

And I'm like, cool, because that's those 10 minutes are what's difficult.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Yeah, yeah, you're right. You know, like cool, then that's all I do, you know. It's just fascinating that yeah, like creatives, and especially in in this field of what we do, is everything is self-created. It's that little dream and that little vision and that little crazy idea that we have, whether you're like sitting in your room one day or like driving down the road, you just get this idea for an act, and you've then got to go, Well, if I can dream it, it must be real, and then you kind of have to bring it into some sort of reality that you can show people, it's like extracting that part of your brain and going, Here's my idea.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

And it's just such a unique thing to creatives, isn't it? That like you say, we do need to kind of celebrate a little bit more. Is there

Boundaries Self Care And Tone Checks

SPEAKER_02 36:50

anything, any tools and techniques that you kind of lean on um to help support you navigate between the pressures of like performing and being a business owner and managing your own kind of well-being and self-care at the same time?

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Wow, big question. Um my business that I have separate to burlesque. I mean, it it's not, I don't feel that it is separate to burlesque, not not wholly and entirely because of the advocacy I do within my business for burlesque and cabaret. But it's it's intense. People that own a business, and also I'm just gonna say creatives, you own businesses. Like we, you know, self-employed creatives, that is a business. And I think we have negative connotations because some of the narrative that is out there around how burlesque can become a business, it feeds that false narrative of what it actually is. What I'm saying is have the respect and the understanding that when you're marketing, when you're answering emails, when you're reposting socials, when you're invoicing, that is a business. Um, but when I think about the typical business space and the how burlesque interlocks with that, it's very consuming. Um, and it's very easy to be consumed by it because a lot of what we do is on our phones, yes, and we've always got it in our hand, and people can access us 24-7 if they want to. And boundaries are something that's really important to me. Being able to say, I'm not comfortable with that level of communication, or can you email instead? And I want to be super clear. I've messed up before where I've messaged like performers on the wrong platform, and you know, and you learn through being through the industry, but boundaries only help somebody maintain a relationship with you. Boundaries are not problematic when those boundaries are disrespected. That's when that becomes a problem. So boundaries is number one, and then secondly, giving myself to step away actively, and that's almost like a boundary for yourself, but we do become all consumed by it. So putting in time where we step away, rest days, and I also understand there's a privilege with that, you know. There's sometimes where we've got to work and hustle, and you know, cash flow is a problem, and also as much as you're able to put in those rest days in, and also reminding yourself why you do the thing you do. Yeah, like why is it that you're doing what you're doing? Remind yourself as much as possible. What was that first reason you decided to do what you do? Because life gets loud, the internet gets really loud, and we forget actually why did we start this in the first place?

SPEAKER_02 39:56

Yeah, that is so true. You can get so bogged down in the emails and applying for jobs, and you know, somebody will contact you and they want to quote for a gig and they need it in the next 15 minutes, and you're like, ah, like trying to navigate everything. It's really key to try and take those pause moments and realise the world's not going to end if you don't apply within the next five minutes to somebody's message. Like, yeah, they're really like key helpful tips and advice, and I hope people at home can really kind of reflect on those and kind of take the little wisdom nuggets into their own lives. Thank you for sharing those.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Thank you. It's not easy as well. It's not easy to have boundaries, and you know, something that I also do is with my communication style, um, because I'm autistic, I may sometimes come across quite blunt. Yeah. So now I do tone checks. So that's one of my ways that I try and advocate for other people to understand how I communicate so that they don't, if I ask quite direct questions, I will put in brackets tone check. This is delivered with kindness, I just want the answer, and things like that, clear deadlines on emails, you know, it it's not an easy thing to practice, but once you start practicing it, it becomes easier. Yeah. And it means that people can communicate with you better.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

And being mindful, isn't it, of like your needs and other people's needs. Because I kind of like, I'm quite dyslexic and I can be a bit like write things really and then I have to do the same. I'm like, okay, read that back. That sounds way too factual and too cold. Like, so yeah, it's kind of but I try and as much as give myself grace for that when I receive messages from other people. Sometimes I think, oh god. I kind of think, you know, just give them a bit of grace because you never know that they might be having a similar experience to you, or you know, they but they're just not open because I don't, you know, tell people openly about my dyslexia, I just kind of get on with it, unless somebody shames me on social media and then I'm like, by the way, by the way, dyslexic person here. Uh that to me made sense, yeah. But yeah, tone checking yourself and being giving other people the grace sometimes to you know let's all cut each other a little bit of slack along

Success As Choice Not Just Money

SPEAKER_02 42:10

the way if we could. How would you define success for yourself now and how has that changed since you started?

SPEAKER_00 42:19

So it's all encompassing with my business and burlesque, but the success for me is choice. The more choices I have, the more successful I feel. Um, and I said this on it's literally like I'm saying the same line. I said this on a podcast recently that I feel that as a fat person, as a queer person, as a neurodivergent person, I've had a lot of autonomy taken away from me throughout my life. And choice is freedom, right? And the more choices that we have, the more free that we feel. Yeah. And just to be able to choose, to have the right to choose in all different areas of my life, that is how I define success. I used to define success of like what stages could I get on, or where could I next do my big talk, for example, in like the typical business. Um, and also how much money I would make. I talk very openly about money, especially as a marginalized underrepresented person. I think it's important that I do talk about money within um my social media um and online business space. And I'm very, very quickly learning that we need money to exist, absolutely, and money allows for choice and freedom, but it isn't money, the entity itself, that is going to make you feel successful. And then you kind of think, well, what's next? If it's not that. So at the minute, I'm sitting with the idea that it's choice. The more choice that I can make, the more times I can say no to a gig I don't want to perform. format or age uh stage I don't want to speak on but that's me in an in success because I get to choose.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Yeah you've got that freedom for

Building Reclaim Means Business

SPEAKER_02 44:10

yourself. And how does it how did you develop into setting up business reclaimed and how that links into the Burlesque community. Can you share us a little bit about that experience and how that idea started?

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Yeah so I was kind of toying with it. So my partner at the time which is where the Hereford show was we were on our way home from Hereford show and I was like and I said to him I looked at him in the car and I said we could do a business and burlesque then we could and he was kind of like I don't know because he was very involved with the shows I I must say massive support to reclaimed when it started in Hereford you know the things that people nobody see is like going to get Ryder and dropping people off at train stations things like that incredible support at the time so I kind of run everything past him not for permission but excitement and I said there's there's got to be something that burlesque and cabaret performers can learn from business owners typical business and business owners can learn from burlesque and cabaret yeah and also if we always try and perform to the audience we've always had then the industry is not going to be what it's always been because we've got to grow our audience to be able to get more people through the door to make more ticket sales. So I understand when we're promoting shows we're promoting it to the audience we already have but we want to reach new people right who have got money business owners in the typical business sense right and I have access to those people I've got to do something and I wanted to pay people people a decent performer fee without it quite being corporate but giving them that experience you know feeding them with decent food and having a massive change in room and you know just the little perks that it's not cash in the bank but it makes a difference to your experience right so reclaim means business was an extension of the word reclaimed of the show that I used to do because I wanted us to mean business. I wanted people to take us seriously to take creative seriously and see that there's so much we can learn from each other um and I hired out this massive venue I didn't know how I was going to make it work I I like was explaining it to people and the first time that I did that event to try and get people in the door it was so difficult so difficult because the concept we hear people teaching burlesque people how to do business and we hear people you know teaching business owners how to do business and those events do exist but the way that reclaimed means business exists is not done by anybody else categorically so trying to get people to come through the door was hellish. You know I was singing to people sending videos to people emailing anything I could do to get people in the door getting trying to get less people to understand that this is going to help like I promise I almost felt like I had to say to I promise I'm doing this for the right reason and did the first event and the people in the room just got it. That must have felt amazing it was a relief if anything and people came off stage to literal bookies literal support of help you know and the people on stage who were from the business space that I'm in were offering help to performers free advice and it was just and seeing people who'd never seen burlesque before watching burlesque and then going to shows one of the people who came to reclaim his business recently um learned from Trixie Blue and and it just makes me so happy and it's not that I am the best thing since sliced bread and Lindsay's here to save the industry. I'm not I can't like that's not what I'm trying to do and I think maybe the perception is that people think that I think I can save the whole industry. I can't but it's something that I can do in my pocket of the world with the access that I've got to people with money who need to put money into our scene and then we can give them something back which is an experience they'll never experience again that's why reclaim means business is so important because business owners can learn about creativity tenacity freedom joy liberation you know that child you know having fun again and also creatives can learn about bookkeeping and finances and things like that that we don't get access to we don't get the literacy to that no one's here to teach us that I'm so passionate about reclaimed means business and it's been it's enabled me to put money directly back into the scene which is something that I wanted to do. So yeah it it's been difficult and the last time we did it though I sold out for this year 2026 170 tickets in less than 48 hours.

SPEAKER_02 49:29

Wow so people are getting it and it means so well to me people are getting it you must have felt so proud like when you get that moment of like you sold the tickets out in such a shit like did you have a little like happy I'd have had a happy cry probably yeah oh my gosh I was a wreck.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

I was an absolute wreck I remember I said I was going to sell out by the end of the month. So it was on the 10th of October I thought I was going to sell out by the end of the month. I said it very proudly I was like if I say it'll happen it'll have to happen because I look like a ticket yeah um and I was at my cousin's I was at Tawny's um and Sweet Peach and other performers there as well and we went for food and my phone was dying and these tickets were coming through and I was like I think I'm gonna sell out so we sat at the pub the sun's shining um this was when I still drank as well so we were like if we sell out we're gonna get a bottle of proseco but I didn't have my laptop to turn the tickets off so I have to manually turn the tickets off because of the system that I use so I ring my friend and I've got like three percent battery and I'm like I'm gonna give you the details to log in to my cartridge which is the platform I use and you're gonna have to turn the tickets off for me. You're gonna just have to watch them luckily she managed to do it and we sold out literally 170 tickets and what was more joyous for me the people that came in last minute the people who bought the last like 13 tickets they were all Bill S people. Yay and that's what brought me the biggest joy and it was people that haven't been before so I'm so excited to introduce them to the space and I and I'm so grateful for their confidence and their belief in what I'm trying to create and I and I don't take it lightly at all.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

It's been so lovely to watch you online though come in and really shake the industry up and be somebody that wants to make a difference and wants to help and the sincerity of your words with that I like I feel it like because you when I was first setting up this podcast like and I reached out to you for some advice and you were so kind and so gracious in your advice and help and support from business aspect to this show and you do what you say you put your money where your mouth was and you kindly sponsored two episodes of this show and I'm so grateful to have your support on this show and thank you and have that oh don't cry you mean what you say and I want people at home to understand that like your support and kindness for this show that you gave not knowing me at all and me lot like I was just like reaching out to you for you know advice and you were so kind and I am so very grateful for that and thank you for supporting the community and championing and coming in and giving it a shake up and connecting those dots that were missing like you say between business owners performers creatives all being able to learn from each other and benefit from the support of each other so thank you it does mean a lot really does I really really appreciate you say that and I think what's important to note is that whenever anything has gone bad in my life or I've needed something it's always been burlesque that I've come back to even if it's just attending a show oh my gosh when my relationship broke down I think I went I went to more shows then than I ever went to shows I was like I've just got to be around my people I'm just gonna be in the room and so that I really want people to take our industry serious and I just appreciate that you've seen that and that you believe that because not everybody does and and I've had experiences explicitly where people do not believe that that's what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

I don't want a gold medal or somebody to roll out the red carpet for me. I also don't want people to assume that I don't mean what I say because I do. I really really do so I really appreciate that. I think that's just why I got emotional because it just reminded you know when we were saying remind yourself why you do it yeah you just reminded me why I'm doing it so thank you.

Where To Find Lindsay Online

SPEAKER_02 53:40

Yeah it's so much honestly I'm so grateful. And where can people find you online if they want to connect with you in any capacity whether booking you to perform or connect with you through Reclaim Business where can they find you online?

SPEAKER_00 53:54

So you can find me at Lotham on Instagram if it's performing and you can find me for all the chaos that is my life on Rolling with Lindsay on Instagram and Reclaimed Beans Business has its own Instagram. We are sold out obviously but we are looking for um people to exhibit we're looking for um people to be in our brochure people who want to donate to the swag bags um and also we are we are casting as well and it's the first time I'm doing a public casting for Reclaim Means business. So I'm I'm a bit I'm dubious about it. I've very carefully created my cast um but I'm gonna do a public casting this time so watch out for that as well.

SPEAKER_02 54:39

People can apply yeah people can apply yeah but honestly thank you so much for coming and spending some time with us on the show today I really appreciate because you I know you've travelled really far and I'm really grateful and hopefully people can take some nuggets of wisdom from your story and your experience and thank you for taking the time to share that with us. It's honestly it's been a joy to chat to you.

SPEAKER_00 55:04

And thank you for creating this space I don't think I think the experience for anybody who's watching and listening the experience of coming to a studio that has even like proper mics and and also I'm just gonna say video podcasts are going to travel so much further. I do my research I'm in business video podcasts are going to travel so much further than audio podcasts. So people who want to be guests and things I'm I I'm imploring you to do it because it's a brilliant experience.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

Yeah and this show is all about like opening up like you were saying about finding new audiences through shows through what you do like part of this is about that as well is like sharing performers inside stories and wisdom and information and experiences in the hope that we can maybe find new audiences to come and watch shows but also document and archive the the legacy of our industry along the way which while we're here but I have a little gift for you as well because our show is sponsored by Crystal Parade so they are our sparkly go-to for any crystals for costumes and you are exceptionally sparkly today. I love that so they let me crystal something for you so please accept a and I love that it goes a sparkly um crystal hairbrush so for those that are listening and not watching there we go um Lindsay has got a wonderful sparkly brush that I hope you enjoyed I love that I'm dead happy with that I loved doing it I was like this is amazing I love sticking rhinestones to anything so yeah if anyone wants to check out our sponsors you can head over to Crystal Parade um but other than that do you have any like last thoughts or tips or words of wisdom you'd like to leave with our audience creativity is subjective and if you think you're a creative you're a creative. That is good well thank you so much and it's been an honour and a pleasure to have you here with us and I'm

Final Thanks And Share The Show

SPEAKER_02 57:05

sure I will see you lots again soon but yeah thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 57:10

Thank you for listening to this episode of Behind the Bell Esque with the wonderful Lindsay McLean I've been Isabella Bliss and the show has been proudly sponsored by Crystal Parade. So make sure you give us a like a thumbs up a share a comment let us know what you loved about the show I personally love hearing from you in the inbox so if you have any comments or feedback tell us what you loved tell us what inspired you but keep sharing the show with as many people as you can and I will see you on the next episode of Behind Ballet