Lord Jonathan Marks - A Philhellene's Journey

Recorded at the House of Lords, this special episode of Hellenic Voice features a fascinating conversation with Lord Jonathan Marks, a long-standing friend of Greece and an advocate for stronger UK–Greek relations.

In this wide-ranging discussion, Lord Marks reflects on his first encounters with Greece, his impressions of Greek culture and society, and the experiences that have shaped his enduring connection with the country over many years. He shares personal insights into the warmth, traditions and character of the Greek people, as well as the cultural differences and similarities between Greece and Britain.

The conversation also explores the deep historical ties between the United Kingdom and Greece, the importance of cultural diplomacy, and Lord Marks' views on the Parthenon Sculptures and their return to Greece.

Thoughtful, personal and engaging, this episode offers a unique perspective on identity, heritage, friendship between nations, and the lasting appeal of Greece through the eyes of one of Britain's most prominent philhellenes.

Music by Evanthia Reboutsika. Used with permission. Thank you for letting us feature your music!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Welcome to Hellenic Voice, the podcast that celebrates Greek culture. In each episode we explore literature, poetry, archaeology, theater, the Greek language, and the connections of Hellenism with other cultures as well as with Phil Hellenes around the world. Today I'm delighted to be joined by Lord Jonathan Marks, a member of the House of Lords and a leading barrister with a long-standing connection to Greece, its people, and its culture. And we are recording this conversation here at the House of Lords. In this episode, we explore how that connection began, what first drew him to Greece and how his understanding of this country has evolved over time through travel, experience, and close personal ties. Lord Max, thank you very much for being here. It's a real pleasure to welcome you to Hellenic Voice. And I would like to start right at the beginning, if I may. So thinking back to when Greece first came into your life, whether through reading, stories or early impressions, how did you first become aware of the country?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Well, I suppose the answer to that starts at school because I um from a very early age I learned ancient Greek. And along with learning ancient Greek, there was a study of the literature, and we went to Greek plays, and we read Greek plays and Greek poetry, uh, as well as learning the hard craft of uh of the grammar and uh learning to write Greek and to read Greek, and I I enjoyed it, and I took it all the way through to um university entrance and then uh later continued to read it. See that was that the start. Um I then went to um Greece on travels during university, and then cutting forward a few years, um I met my uh now wife and mother of uh children um who is Greek, and uh since then we've spent a great deal of time in Greece, and my children are of course half Greek.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

So there is a big connection here. When you just first uh your wife and you you you got involved with the families, I mean, um did you have like a culture shock? You know, as Greeks we are loud, we are tactile, sometimes we can appear as over-friendly. So how was that to you?

SPEAKER_00 3:21

That's a that's a great great question. I I don't think over-friendly it is. Very friendly, yes, but um I'm used to people being friendly. What I found uh interesting and very different from the average Brit was that um uh Greeks often sound, and certainly my Greek family often sounds as if they're getting very cross with each other. When of course they're not. Um, but they do tend to get uh excited and they talk very loudly, and it sounds as if you're rowing. And and at the beginning, when I hardly spoke any Greek at all, I'd listen and I'd ask, why are you all getting so cross with each other? What's this row about? And the answer came back, no, we're not rowing at all. This is just friendly conversation. And uh that I think was a bit of a shock, because we're, as a nation, the British are pretty um quiet and reserved, and we express ourselves fairly carefully and tactfully, very careful not to offend. And I think that uh is not necessarily the way that Greece works.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

That's so true. And uh I think you just said like when uh I didn't speak Greek. So that means you can speak Greek now. And how did you learn your Greek?

SPEAKER_00 4:41

So I speak some Greek. I don't speak good Greek, but I get enough, I have enough Greek to get by. Uh and the answer to that is that um when I became engaged to my wife, we um uh I decided that I wanted to learn some Greek because I wanted to make a speech in Greek at my wedding. And um, so we had uh a tutor and I did tutorials with him for about um six months before the wedding, and then kept going for a couple of years afterwards. And then tra constant travel to Greece has meant that I've um kept it up and I I enjoy such Greek as I can uh uh can speak and I can get by.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Thank you. And when you think about Greek culture more broadly, like uh food, conversation, family, uh life, social interaction, what aspects have you come to appreciate most deeply? What do you like the most about Greeks, let's say?

SPEAKER_00 5:42

I enjoy the atmosphere in Greece. I enjoy the way that people are friendly, that they're outgoing, that they speak their mind, they feel things deeply, and uh I think Greek people are very welcoming. I think they're also particularly welcoming to British people because there's a long history of um friendship between um Greeks and British people. And I think that is very important. For my part, I love uh being in Greece because we have a house there, I have family there, my children, of course, um two of them have Greek degrees, uh, so they uh they know Greece very well, and they all know Greece very well. We enjoy the water, we enjoy boating, uh we enjoy uh social life in Greece, I enjoy going to exhibitions in Greece and museums, and I love uh archaeology. I mean I love going to visit sites, and that's something that uh is very special in Greece.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Would you like to tell us more about uh uh the uh history because you just mentioned uh history and archaeology, what do you like the most uh about Greek uh history? And then I will ask you to tell us about the connections between um United Kingdom and uh Greece.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Well I like to do that. I mean my Greek history started with uh with the ancients, and um because I did classics, I learned an awful lot about um ancient history through uh through the literature, uh, and I had a whole series of teachers who were absolutely fascinated by it. But cut forward a long way. I've been very interested in more recent Greek history. I mean I think that the um the struggle for freedom, the struggle for independence. So our house in Greece is in Spitzis, which of course had a very uh central part to play in uh the struggle for independence. Um I was at the same school as Lord Byron was, who of course played a big part in uh the independence struggle, and that I found really very interesting. Um then we've had just had the 85th um anniversary of the Battle of Crete, which I think was a really important feature of uh Anglo-Greek friendship and cooperation. Um, not so much in a formal way, but the very fact that the Germans in the war launched this huge airborne attack on Crete. Uh, and the British forces, the Australian forces, Canadian forces, New Zealand forces were there fighting alongside uh Greek patriots and farmers, citizens, priests, everybody helping each other in the resistance. And then later when Crete fell, because it was it was a defeat in form, um the Greek people really helped so many Allied uh soldiers escape. And I think that's rather cemented this uh friendship and the very fact that we had a celebration of the 85th anniversary here in Parliament um a week or two ago was was very important. And I'd say to that, it's very rare. We had this celebration in the Speaker's House. The Speaker's House is a very dramatic and beautiful building, but it's very rare that it's sort of lent out um to representatives of other countries to celebrate something like that. And that was a special sign of the of the friendship that there is, and that continues.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

So uh, and I have to thank you for the touring today. This is an amazing experience. I I'm really grateful. And but I want to ask, do you think other members of you know um of the Lords, you know, they think the same as you, or is it because your special connection with your because you have a Greek wife? What is uh I mean do you you happen to know what do they think about Greece?

SPEAKER_00 10:02

There's a bit of each, and I can't speak for all members of the House of Lords and all members of the House of Commons. What I can say is, of course, I have a special connection, but quite a lot of people have a special connection with Greece here. Um there is the tradition of Greek in of English interest in Greece of Phil Hellenism. Uh there is a very strong all-party parliamentary group on Greece, um, which is in both houses, the Lords and the Commons, uh, led by an MP who is uh half Greek Cypriot and actually half Italian, but he's got a very close relationship with Greece. Uh, and people follow what's going on in Greece, I think. There's a very strong tradition, for example, of cooperation between the armed forces of the UK and of Greece, and between parliaments. We are very proud to think of this parliament as the mother of parliaments, but we're also very conscious of the fact that the birthplace of democracy was Greece, and um that the democratic traditions are very strong. And although, I mean, we've we've left the European now, I personally regret that very much. But we had a very long time as co-members of the European Union, uh, and uh I think that was important and enabled people to form relationships. And they're of course multiplied by the fact that so many people come from England to Greece uh every summer for tourism, travel, for interest in seeing what Greece has to offer.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Greek food, restaurants, and yes, and uh actually uh you know we can see it at um Greek Embassy whenever there is an occasion, like the Independence Day. We always have lots of British people there to um celebrate with us, which uh we feel really honored, you know, and we would like to thank you and all the other British people that they come and join us for this so important uh anniversary for us. Now I will ask you if you don't mind, what is your opinion about the Parthenon sculptures?

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Well, my opinion is not necessarily universally held. I personally believe that the Parthenon models ought to go back to Greece. I've been to the Acropolis Museum, uh, which is the most beautiful building and fantastically well sighted. Of course, the argument that things were better in the British Museum has taken a bit of a knock recently because the British Museum's had its own problems. But the Parthenon models I do think belong in Greece. I hope that there will be some diplomatic solution. Um I think it will involve some Greek treasures coming to England. Um how it'll be situations ultimately solved, I'm not sure, but there's very there's a lot of goodwill in the government, there's a lot of goodwill among politicians, and there's a lot of desire to find a solution. And my own view is that within not very long. My lifetime, I think we will um find a resolution to this this problem.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

This is uh um uh you know encouraging. Thank you so much. And uh may I ask if you have visited the Acropolis New Museum in Athens.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Yes, yes, I have. That's that's the museum I was talking about. Um very soon after it opened, actually. And as I say, it's a it's a wonderful museum and a very worthy home for the marbles when they do come back.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Thank you. Is it anything that you don't like about Greece or Greeks? Please feel free to say that we don't mind.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

I think the relationship between officials and the Greek public is sometimes quite touchy. And um I know that a lot of Greek people that we know find officials uh difficult, bureaucratic, and unhelpful. And that's a shame. Um interestingly, I find that an awful lot of Greek officials are nicer to me and other Brits than they are to Greeks. I don't know why, but um if there was something I'd like to change, it would be the attitudes of officialdum, the bureaucracy. A lot of this has changed, I think, recently with um more use of technology. And technology is actually the public's friend and the government's friend in this in bringing people together because if you can introduce technological solutions, um they act more independently and more objectively, and they're easier to navigate than difficulties with um people who get across a lot.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

I mean, you do spend uh quite a bit of time, you know, I spets as you're saying, you do have to deal with things and they are and the bureaucracy and uh um you know all these offices that perhaps you need to spend quite a bit of uh time. How do you find this, you know, personally?

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Okay, I deal with it, I get on with it. But the answer to your question is how do I find it time consuming?

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Time consuming.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

It takes a lot of time to get things done sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

And uh what do you like to do when you're either in spitzis or in general in in Greece?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

So we have a lot of great friends and we do have a social life. We meet people, we spend time with people, we love uh the sea, all of us love the sea, um, and we um spend quite a lot of time walking around enjoying ourselves, but we're usually there to relax. Um I do have an office in a house in Greece, and so I do spend some time working there, but I try to keep that down, and it's um it's a much nicer place to work than than here anyway.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Um did you have the opportunity to visit the Seferi um exhibition at the Greek embassy? And what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yes, I did. I th I thought it was uh very interesting, but there was a there was an occasion when um I went and the ambassador showed me around the exhibition and yeah, it was a remarkable, a remarkable collection of things that have been put together. And um I think the more that that kind of um exhibition is put on, the more it helps people understand the uh the connections. So I thought I thought it was good.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Do you like any uh the Greek poets or authors? Uh um, I mean have you read any Greek books? Because I know you can uh understand Greek or even a translation.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Um well uh as I say, two of my children uh read Greek at university and um uh they read Kavalfia and love him and my wife likes his patriot. So although it wasn't a great corpus, like a huge amount of the bag, it was it's all very moving and touching. So that would be the quick answer in terms of modern Greek poetry.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Yes. What do you mean the most when you are away from Greece?

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Some and Greek people. I I meet a lot of Greek people here, but yes, and Greek people. Greek people together uh have a sort of life and a vibrancy that's really nice. And we love Greek food.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Thank you. And we have to say about uh Lord Byron uh as when uh have visited his house uh, you know, last year actually, where he started his uh poetry, you know, and he was uh he used to love Greece uh as well. And it's so nice when um we you give us the opportunity to hear, you know, about your love for Greece, you know, we are so grateful. And is it anything else that you would like to add or to say a message uh to the Greek people or something, a special place that you love?

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Well, I think there's there is a message, which is that in spite of the fact that um the United Kingdom left the European Union, the friendship and the mutual dependence with Greece and the feeling that there's a very real relationship lives on, and um, long may that continue. And I think it does get better and better. Um, so that's part of it. And the other thing I'd like to say is I'm very grateful to you for giving me the opportunity to talk about Greece. Um, along with many, many other Britons, I'm a great lover of Greece, and um it's a pleasure to take part in this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Lord Mark, thank you so much for sharing your reflections and personal experiences with us today. It has been a real pleasure to hear about Greece through your eyes. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe and share it with others who love Greece and meaningful conversations. Thank you, of course, to our listeners. Until next time, I'm Basula Christoph Dullo. We spoke with Lord Marx and we thank him so much. And this was Hellenic Voice. Thank you for listening to Hellenic Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, please support us by sharing it, leaving your comments, and following us on social media so we can continue this journey through Greek culture together. Until the next episode, the voice of Hellenism continues.