Women in Industry #2: Demi-Leigh Perry

Diversity and inclusivity are vital for the industry's growth, acknowledging the crucial importance of promoting gender diversity and inclusivity.

Hosted by Marie Tyler and powered by OrangeDoor, in partnership with IPSA and DARE - the Women In Industry series shines a spotlight on the journeys, perspectives and impact of women across the industry.

Episode 2: Demi-Leigh Perry – NSI

Where Is the Next Generation? Women, Apprenticeships and the Security Industry’s Talent Gap

Exploring how early talent initiatives are opening doors for young women in the security industry, brought to life through a real apprenticeship success story, while questioning why progress still feels slow.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Now a little bit of uh an elephant in the room moment because you may or may not have noticed that this is the women in industry podcast. And I don't want to point out any of the obvious observations, and at the end of the day, who am I to judge anyway? But there is obviously a reason for this.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Um the topic that we've got today, where is the next generation? Women apprenticeships of the security industry's talent gap. You and the NSI are going to some great lengths to help change some of that, and I would love for you to give us a snippet of what what your impression, what your thoughts are on the talent gap, and perhaps that will lead into the main event in a moment.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Well, thank you very much, Marie. Firstly, thanks for having me. Um, in respect to the NSI, NSI teamed up with the likes of Skills for Security. Um we're judging again today within the event, and the Skills for Security event here. Um, so we are we have the finger on the pulse in regards to trying to nurture new industry talent coming into the industry, but myself and my own experience within the industry and in my experience as a lecturer is there is still a shortfall and disparity in in numbers. Um, although we have dedicated courses available now, which is great compared to 15-20 years ago, um there's still just not enough people coming into the industry. Um, it's a great industry to be a part of, uh it's it's a great culture in most cases to be a part of. Um, and again, I'm hoping that doing different activities such as the podcast here can actually shed a bit of light on the fact that we are here, we're open for business, and there is certainly shouldn't be any differential between a male or a female um engineer, as far as I'm concerned. There is nothing that sort of says that you have to be a male to be in this industry, and it would be lovely to see more females entering the industry and developing their career within the engineering side of the industry.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Because I think some people would say, Oh, is there uh perhaps astigmatism to it? But that I think internally there's one thing, but externally there's another. Actually, we're probably not as an industry shouting outside enough to attract that talent in, unless, as you say, there's specific initiatives and things and activities, and using social media and getting that message out there and helping to help everybody understand that as you have absolutely said, there's not really one or the other. We just want to have a uh, like most industries, have a balanced, inclusive environment.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Yeah, I I don't think I don't think we're shouting loud enough from the rooftops to say there is, we're here again, we're open for business and give it a try. Um, again, you know, looking at other industries, they are maybe a little bit more proactive than what we are here in the security industry. Um, certainly in the in the guarding side, you know, there is female guards across the country, which is absolutely fantastic to see. Um, but from an engineering standpoint, there just doesn't seem to be very many coming through, and it would be very, very nice to see more people entering the industry, uh, more female talent coming in. We're here to support, especially NSI and the multitude of different colleges and course providers out there are here to support anyone coming in. Um, but quite rightly, as you say, you know, secondary schools does a secondary school student know exactly what they want to do anyway? Uh and certainly from a careers advice perspective, we're little known, you know, we're we're not very widely known, should I say, uh, to put it to put it better.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Um but let me interrupt, right? Because for our listeners and our viewers, yes, it's about somebody else, isn't it? It totally you guys have been doing something. Tell us tell us that, and then perhaps we could warm up to our main event here.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Yeah, so um obviously we had a wee chat about about doing this today, and um we were very, very lucky to speak with Demi Lee. Um, Demi Lee works for an NSI goals uh certified certified company and she is here with us today to tell the listeners a little bit more about her personal journey um and how she found herself coming into the industry and more importantly what she's thought of the industry uh and what she thinks of about working for an NSI approved firm.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Well, I love this evidence of allyship lifting others. Thank you for doing the introduction. Um side left, hook, pull them out, bring in the main event. Here she comes.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Thank you, Marie.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Thank you, Ross. So walking over to us now. So we've done this slightly different to the others. I'm just gonna let Demi just settle in and um switch it around the other way. It's right to left, that's you. There you go. Um, so we can hear each other. Can you hear me alright? Chat, chat, chat, chat. Um, so what about now? Can you hear me now? No, I still can't hear you. Okay, I can hear you. Oh, that's interesting. Live technical moment, we're all good. How's that then? Okay, brilliant. Um, so Demi's with us now, she is the main event, as I said, just a few moments ago, and it was great. Ross gave you a lovely introduction, and of course, we were talking about not just inside the industry but outside the industry. We don't, not just us widely in security, we're probably not doing enough to uh help challenge that stigma around you know what, it's not a male industry, it's an everybody industry. We're all very welcome. Um, I've been doing it for over 20 years, and a lot of people you talk to they'll say, Oh, I I just kind of fell into it by mistake or I helped someone do something and it led on to a thing. But your journey is very different, it's very um precise. You've gone through a few very uh specific steps to get to where you are today. So I'd love for you to just tell me how it started and how you got to where you are and what you're doing now.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

So it started because I was once working in an office, um, realised it's not for me, I wanted to get more hands on. So it ended up one evening, I was scrolling through indeed, looking for new jobs, and I'd seen an apprenticeship arise. So I applied for it thinking I might not get it. Obviously, I had the doubts because I thought it's a more masculine job. So how old were you then? I was 19, so I was just basically finding what I wanted to do. My interviewer arrived straight away, and it was a woman who interviewed me, and that there I had hopes from that second. She explained to me how she once started as an apprenticeship and then she managed to get herself up to regional manager. That was nice and relatable for you. She's thinking, well, if you've done it. I looked at her and I was like, You're there, I can get there. So I stepped foot in it, and ever since I've just been going up, up and up. Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

So, with that particular person that interviewed you as well, did they then become part of your journey, or was that just sort of that one-off interview? And like, have there been people along the way that have really helped?

SPEAKER_01 7:09

She's still part of my journey. Before today, I text her and I was like, I'm doing this, and she was like, Oh my god, go you! And I was like, wouldn't be there without her, really, because she was the motivation that I needed at the start. Because I feel like you don't get much social media awareness on women in the trades, and I think because you don't get much of that and it needs to be pushed more, kind of having that woman there who's done it is that little push for you. So you were 19 when you started the journey. How old are you now? 23. And are you still loving it? Yeah, I still love it. I qualify the end of this year. So, what's your actual role right now then? What do you do on the day-to-day? So, my actual role is an apprentice installer, and I'm going for a level three in fire and security. So, at the moment I'm just installing. And whereabouts is it that you're located in the country? Um, the main office is located in Leicester. I work for Birmingham Branch, but we do installs all over the UK where we are needed. Happy days.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

So, in terms of the NSI then and their involvement with you along this process, can you tell me a bit about that and what that journey's been like?

SPEAKER_01 8:19

So, I work for a gold, an NSI gold accredited company, um, and personally I think it's good working for an NSI company because they come in and audit our work and make sure that we're working to their standards and the NSI standards are the best. So they make sure that everything you are doing is the best and they will come in and make sure that the job is to their standard. So you feel proud to represent that? Oh, yeah, 100%. So, what's the dream for you? Do you have a goal in mind? Um, so I feel like my biggest dream is see more women on site. So, doing things like this today, and we do it with our within our own company, we promote on social media because that would be my biggest dream, just to see more women do it because I feel like we need that courage to go. It's not a manly job, it's a technical job. So, as long as you've got the brains and the you want to put forward and work towards that, you can do that because it's not a masculine job.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

I would definitely agree with that. I think a lot of when I a few of the women that I've spoken to in my own experience as well, being willing to put yourself forward, and you were saying at the beginning of this as well, around the doubts that kicked in, people talk a lot about imposter syndrome, and actually, if you're feeling that way, you're learning and it's pushing yourself, isn't it, to lean into it. And but of course, having allies and having women, what's the name of the woman? Um, her name's Emma, who's been there to inspire you at the start, and not only that, has stayed with you through this journey is amazing. And I think we talk about allyship a lot in this industry, and typically it would be a male ally because, of course, they're opening a door and letting you in. But actually, what's really interesting there is that you actually found yourself in a situation where it was actually a female that started off your journey and has inspired you and actually has taken you on that journey as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Yeah, yeah. I feel like just having that woman there. It's like having another mum in your life. I no longer work for the same company as her, but she is still there. It's like having a second one. That's amazing. So, have you been at this show before? Never. And have you had a chance to look around yet? What do you think? Um no, so you are the first place we've come to. Um we're gonna have a wander round, get some talking to everyone, seeing all the different brands that are here today.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

And then what would be your like general experience around, I suppose, the security technology in the industry? Like, do you find that you know enough about that or is there like a particular area that really interests you about the security sector?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Nobody knows too much about anything. No matter how long you've been in the trade, every day is a school day, I believe. So I feel like you could have a great knowledge, but you would never know everything. So I feel like if you go round to all the different stores and just take in what everyone's saying, because you might go, Oh, I know that company really well, but then actually stand there, listen and go, I didn't know it worked like that, or I didn't know you could do this. So events like this are great and get those connections in.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

What about your family and friends then? What do they think about what you do for a job? Are you one of a kind in your community of people at home?

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Yeah, so no, my nan the other day phoned me and said, 'I've got this problem. Do you know anyone who can fix it? Her cameras weren't tidy. I can do it. I was like, 'Nan I can do it. And she was like, Oh, no way.' I was like, 'Yeah.' So yeah, I am the only one. Um, my little cousin, she's 16, she now wants to follow what I do because she sees she sees her mum stressed through work and then sees me, and I'm just like, I love life, living your best life. Yeah. So she now wants to follow in my footsteps, so it's nice.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

I love that. Yeah. So when you think back to though the beginning and then to where you are today, is there anything that you would change or anything that you would go back and give yourself any sort of advice, or has it been smooth running? That has anything happened along the way that stands out?

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Um I'd definitely go back in time and tell myself being more comfortable from the first day. Um, like walking on site, I'm always the only woman there. So I find now that just let my work speak for itself because you still get the doubts, but it's like you'll show that your work, let your work speak for itself, and they'll be like, Oh, okay, she knows what she's doing, and there it's like it's a it's kind of a smug moment because it's like, yeah, I've got this, and then go into customers, and there's women, and it's nice to get that. Oh, hi, I'm so glad you're here, and it's like inside I'm saying I'm doing this for us, and it's it's nice. Yeah, what would you say is your proudest moment so far? Getting on bigger jobs and being able to get on with it and just complete a job, yeah. So you feel fully trusted and empowered in what you do. Oh, yeah, 100%. And I know that no questions are silly question. So if I'm doing a job, I'll know anyone, an answer is at the end of that phone call. So there's always that help there to remember. Love that. So you're at the show. This is your first, is this your first podcast or is it yeah? So we normally do them at the office where we can pause it, carry on. So yeah, this is my first proper one. Proper, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

I'll take that proper time.

unknown 13:55

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Um so first podcast, first time being at this show. Um maybe the next step might be getting you on a panel discussion at some point, maybe having you up on the on the stage at some point. Maybe, yeah. Yeah. Um, and have you met Satia yet from IPSA? No, right. Well, we definitely have to introduce you to her. So Satia is the CEO at IPSA, um, and she herself has a very inspirational story about how she came to where she is, and she is the ultimate empower and uplifter of women in this industry and has helped bring me on the journey as well. So, we absolutely need to do that and make sure you've got a spot on one of them stages and whenever you're comfortable doing that as well. Um, so I asked you if there was any advice you'd give your you know yourself back then, which you've given to me. You told me about how you feel about this, you told me how you feel about the NSI. I know a little bit about your home community and how they you know feel about you and you inspired them. Is there anything that you would like to say, whether it be to the industry, whether it be to outside the industry or women generally? You've got the stage if you like.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Is there anything you'd like to say? The only thing I would say is just towards women. Don't let don't stop yourself because the only thing that's stopping them from doing the job is yourself. So go for it, do it, and prove everyone wrong. Women can do it and remember it's not a man's job, it's a technical job. I love that. It's a really great way.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

They say that when men and women apply for jobs, men typically will apply for a job they want. Whereas women will only apply if they think they're over a certain threshold of qualification. Or if they feel welcome. Yes. But typically, when it is, like you say, just an indeed search or whatever, and people are scrolling and think, these are the things we want from you, and you're like, oh, have I not whereas typically a man will go, Well, do you know what? I'll go for it. And you're right, like just what's holding you back? Go for it. Just yourself. Well, and look where it's landed you today. Exactly. And this association has literally put you forward as you know a shining example of what a success story looks like. You are literally our only success story of an apprenticeship that we've managed to pull into this podcast, yeah, and we will be sharing it far and wide to inspire others.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

I hope that a lot of people see it, and I hope that a lot of women see it and go, I'm gonna go for it, because there's a lot of companies out there that want a lot of women engineers.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Well, I'm inspired by you. Thank you so much for your time. I know this is the beginning, it's like be so funny. Like next year, I'll be like, Oh my god, dude! And you'll be up there on stage, and I'll be like, ah! Because it will, because you know, if you're obviously up for embracing it and putting yourself out there, and honestly, this this industry absorbs that, like they love that. Um, and people like NSI and IPSA and the 19 group who organise this, which is hence you know the women in industry piece, they are all for it. So keep doing what you're doing and put yourself for it, and you'll be a superstar. You're already a superstar, but an even bigger superstar. Thank you. Thank you very much. No, thank you for having me.