Women in Industry #8: Sarah Baugh

Diversity and inclusivity are vital for the industry's growth, acknowledging the crucial importance of promoting gender diversity and inclusivity.

Hosted by Marie Tyler and powered by OrangeDoor, in partnership with IPSA and DARE - the Women In Industry series shines a spotlight on the journeys, perspectives and impact of women across the industry.

Episode 8: Sarah Baugh – Fullerton Group

Where Are the Young People? Or Are We Just Not Letting Them In?

Exploring barriers to entry and progression for the next generation.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:23

I know we're going to tuck into a great topic of which you have a great experience in, which is where are the young people, or are we just not letting them in?

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Scandal. Scandal.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

But before we tuck into that, um for there mustn't be many that don't know the famous Sarah, but for those that don't, and actually just even for my benefit too, I would love to hear how Sarah got into the industry.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Yeah, so I went to university in Leeds and I got a job straight after that in IT, actually cyber security in a marketing manager role. I didn't apply for professional security thinking I would ever work in door supervision security guard world. I actually applied just because I like the job, the look at the marketing manager job. And since then I've been at professional security, which has now evolved into Fullerton Group for four and a half years now. From then I've worked my way up from marketing manager to head of marketing, and now I'm senior head of branding comms. Started off on my own, and now I've got a team below me as well, so constantly growing, constantly seeking new opportunities, new ways to develop.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

And quick, you say head of branding, you've just done a complete rebrand and it looks classy.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

I love it. It was uh it was really exciting to do, to be fair, and like I said, I've been in the business for four and a half years, so um I really understand you know Dave Fullerton and Abby Fullerton and that story and how they've evolved. It's been great to be from that the start of it to now and see how far we've come as well and how far I've come as well because I started off as marketing manager, I was I was a little shy Sarah. Um little shy Sarah. I was! I can't picture that. Um I mean, even an event like this a few years ago, I would have been absolutely terrified, but now I feel like I know loads of people, I love the networking, yeah. It really is, it really is. Um yeah, that's that's I think that's my story. In terms of obviously I'm the trustee for EY Foundation as well. You say, obviously, that's kind of a big deal. It is, yeah. Um I started working with EY Foundation. Um, I'll be completely honest with you, and I think a lot of people it starts like this for a lot of security companies and any company actually. Uh we were looking at our social value strategy and working with young people that fit in fitted into that strategy, so it wasn't really something that I'd thought of before. Um started working with them on a secure futures programme, which is uh social mobility. You get young people who are interested in security, they come into the business, they do work experience, we do Dragon's Den panels with them, um different kinds of mentoring. Um and the second I started working with those young people, there was a passion that just ignited in.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

It's funny saying listening to you say young people because you're still young.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

I'm glad you said that. Some people don't think I am, but yeah, I mean these are 16 to 18 year olds. Um really starting out. I mean, a lot of them are interested in the cyber side, which I always get annoyed at.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Um there's more than screen in the, but no, but they do anything like that. It's like it's either a physical guard or cameras, but yeah, there's a lot that happens in between all of them.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

Yeah, and that's one thing that I really love about the programme that I work with because they come in and they go, Oh, I don't want to stand on the door. That's not I don't want to stand in the freezing cold on a door at 3am. And it's explained to them that there's so many other opportunities in the industry, and yes, there are people that are still on the door at 3am, but they've also progressed through the industry. You know, it's a career choice for them and they absolutely love it.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

There's a lot of people like that, isn't there? Whether it is on the door, whether it's policing or whatever, having that on the ground experience actually is really grounded and applied into their mind, and then like you say, then you'll develop a journey out.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Absolutely, and I think before I actually worked in the industry, I never actually fully appreciated the what these people go through on a day-to-day basis, whether it's dealing with conflicts, whether it's dealing with emergency emergencies, whether it's supporting someone in need. We don't actually, until you're in it, you don't actually see you just see someone on door when you're on a night out. You don't actually understand what they go through on a day-to-day. So it's I'm so glad to join the industry to give me that understanding as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

So you have been out on the grounds with the team. Do you go full uniform, all the things like immerse yourselves?

SPEAKER_02 4:28

We do immerse ourselves, yeah. We've got um we've got a frontline Friday that we do as part of the business where everyone in our senior leadership team, management teams go out to different cities, spend time with the door supervisors. Um that's because as a business we're growing so fast. It's sometimes very easy to slip into, you know, they're on the front line, but we want them to be involved in kind of how we develop new strategies, new ways of working, you know, they're the reason the business is here in the first place, and we can't let that slip, and we can't let that dis we can't distance ourselves too much from the front line. So we do that from a senior management perspective, but then I just love getting out anyway. Not because there's amazing events, because there obviously are some events that I love to get to from a marketing perspective. But the stories that these people have, it's amazing. You you see someone stood on a door, and then they taught you that they're doing a master's in biochemistry and they're from the this country, and that's some things that you would never expect to hear. Um, and I love that side of it.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Um I love also that your people are video and that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Yeah, she's literally in my face.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

No, it's fine, it's fine. Oh so um cool. So you love where you work, the journey has been a good one. Um I don't think oh don't think we mentioned Dave too much, but I mean he does deserve a shout out, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:53

He does deserve a shout-out.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

No guard alone, another part, another thing that you're obviously.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

I mean, yeah, that's that's I I guess I see myself as being that core no guard alone team. I built the brand. Um another brand, which throwing brands out there. It's so good. Um but Dave is super passionate about it, and in turn, because I'm around him so much, I've become really passionate about it as well. And we've just bought another Dave on board, we love Dave's, um, to really head up that charity. And Dave's gonna be talking today, and it's just within the space of a year we've managed to get it so far, and we've got plans now where we're gonna be a fully functioning charity within the next couple of months. Uh, we're building a board, we're it's all coming together really well, and it's something I'm super passionate about. So we've done so much within a lot of time.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Um, all right, so we've gotten to know you a bit, we understand what your job is, so we're here to talk about how we get more young people in on maybe what the barriers are and your thoughts on that. Tell me why you feel so passionate about it.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

I think the industry as a whole, um, I mean, if I went to any young person at the minute and said, Do you want a career in security? They would laugh and go, No, I did. Um, and I think we're doing we are doing better to encourage more people to come in from a social online perspective. But I think bringing young people into businesses and into like being immersed in security, I think we can do so much better at because unless you're immersed, you don't fully understand it. Even at this event today, uh I've even spoken to EY and suggested that the students of the Secure Futures programmes they should be here walking around, meeting people, talking to you, talking to me, talking to all these people because it really gets them immersed in that space so they can see the opportunities. Um, I've got you, I mean we just said that I've got paid, she's an apprentice. Um again, she had no idea about security, never thought she'd be in security. She's been in the business two years, she now thinks that she'll stay here long term. Um she absolutely loves it. Um but if it wasn't for that apprenticeship, she probably would never have entered the industry. You know, she goes out a lot, she sees people on the doors, but that's as far as it goes. And now she's really passionate about her job, she's really passionate about the mental health side of things and no guard alone. Um and it saddens me a little bit when I see some of the apprenticeships are being pulled from the industry. The level two security operations is the biggest one. Right, I didn't know that. Um that's a level two is a pathway, isn't it? It's you know you've got no qualification, it's you're just starting to enter an industry. Now, if that gets pulled, which it is, um how are these young people supposed to enter? And seeing it from a social mobility side, UI Foundation obviously being that, there's a lot of young people from underprivileged backgrounds that unless they have the right network and they know the right people, it's almost impossible for them to enter at a level that they want to enter at and to progress. Um so I think it's a bit of a kickback that the apprenticeships are being pulled there. So I think as employers in the industry, we need to start looking at how else we can support if it's not through apprenticeships. You know, can we do more mentoring? Mentoring's a huge one for me. I do mentoring for four students a year through Leeds Trinity University and through UI Foundation. Um and a lot of it, it's just connections and it's welcoming them to new, not introducing them to new people. Unless they have those connections, how are they going to know who to contact?

SPEAKER_01 9:14

And you only know what you know, and when you do speak to people or you see people doing things like you say they'll be looking at you doing this or or any of the other things that you're already showing them. Yeah. And there's a few other women that I've spoken to as well. Similarly, when you go into their background, it's because um you know someone brought them in, like you say at all, there's a connection, yeah. But there was only actually um one in particular where um she saw a woman doing said role, and actually that woman now, uh, she originally got her in as an apprentice, and although she doesn't work with her directly, she's become like she's like a second mum to me now because she's supported me through that journey. But she said what was really big for her though was just seeing her do it because she just didn't see herself in that space because as you say, there's this misconception of what we mean by security industry, absolutely, and there is just so much more to it.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

Yeah, and I think in um experience as well, there's so many entry-level roles I've seen on LinkedIn to enter security that's it's an entry-level role, it's a junior role, but you need three to five years experience, and it's like you can't have both. Yes. Um, I understand some companies don't want to train from scratch, but surely spending a bit of time, you know, Paige started from scratch, and now I can fully trust her to crack on and do what she's doing. And yes, there was graph there to train her up, but look where she is now, and she'll be able to train someone else up now. And it's that evolution of talent that we need to nurture. Um I just don't I think there's some people that are doing it really well, and some companies that it's very much this is how we've always done it, it's who you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Um and I do think that is phasing out generationally, yeah, because there is not enough yet but younger talent coming in. Yeah, the mindset that you're talking about, um but it's definitely not where it should be, you're completely right. I mean, there's so much more that needs to be done. Yeah, no. So, what's the um more formal approach then with Pulleton Group on that? Have you got like a set this is how many we're gonna do, or this is how we're approaching it?

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Yeah, so we're currently talking to numerous apprenticeship providers. Um, we've got tech providers like QA are working with us on the marketing tech side. We've got a company called Race the Bar who do kind of leadership management style apprenticeships, and then there's a few others that are security specific. Because what we want to do is build an apprenticeship program that's just one programme for bulletin group, where you come in, you choose your programme, it then ciphers you off to which company works best for you. Um and then through EV Foundation, that's going to be my first phone call, obviously. Um, but also reaching out to colleges and really got really close connections with Leeds Trinity University. I'm a lecturer there in uh Leedship. You're a lecturer in getting and you're not 30 yet, are you? Hello. A lecturer before 30. Legend. But there's so many people even there that are doing courses um that have nothing to do with security, but from that they now want to come in and do work experience with me. Um, another one is that work experience, so going to universities, it's six weeks a lot of the time. I mean, six weeks is nothing really, is it? Having students come in six weeks. It's also great for the companies as well, because you're getting new ideas, fresh blood, fresh talent. Um, and some of these people come up with some bloody great ideas.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

I think especially now because the younger generation is so much more exposed to the world through technology, yeah, that their eyes are already kind of. I know it's not maybe lived experience, but they have a lot more visibility to what could be, and so they're they're always just bouncing with ideas. Yeah, no, I agree completely. So, did you say you've got two at the minute?

SPEAKER_02 12:37

I've got one apprenticeship just one. Yeah, she's so close to finishing now. I really she should be done in the next couple of months, and then we move on. How old did you say she is sorry? She just turned 20.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Happy days.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

So outside of the Fullerton group, then is there anybody else that you think is doing it, doing it well, who's seen any other good examples of it? Or did you say you said about the uh the level two pieces being taken away? Is uh anything that stood out to you and then she goes, Why are we changing that other thing? Or actually that was a great example of that, or actually, are we genuinely at a point where you're like no one really? I don't think any, I mean I'm sure there is, I know I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

I I only see what I see, so I'm I don't want to, you know, there's some there might be people that genuinely are correct. That you're but I don't think the level two is utilised half as much. Obviously, it can't be, it only gets pulled, but obviously an SIA licence is expensive. It's I think it's about 500 now to do training and your license, which a lot of young people just don't have. Um so the level two I think would have been a really good way of they do their apprenticeship and at the end of it they get the SIA licence and then they've got that entry to the you know they're then in the industry without having to put that cost out there. Um but I haven't I personally haven't seen many companies really taking advantage of that, even Fullerton Group, we you know we haven't used that level two um apprenticeship. Um the other way I like to think that we can do better is that funding for the licenses as well. If it's 500 quid ultimately, yeah, the clean formal sponsors for that. Yeah, we've we've run a few a few times we've gone into different universities. So we've last year we did Leeds University in Sheffield Hallam. Uh we went in and did we went to their job of Ben if you want to work for us, we'll pay for your badge up front. Um, we'll then cover half that cost, and the other half you can pay in instalments as you work for us, so there's no upfront cost for them, and that worked pretty well. We had quite a few students who came on the door then, and it's really great for students actually because it's flexible to them. You know, we are nationwide, so when they go home they can still work on the door. Yes. Um it's great for their studies because it's not a daytime role a lot of the time, a lot of the time it's evening, so it works out for them, it's a sociable role as well. They're already like going out, and now they could they can go out and spend time on the door. You know, it works really well for those younger people. So I want to do more of that. I don't think we've done enough. We've had we've had a few students in, but this year/slash next year, I really want to hit hard on the universities and selling those benefits to them, and then a lot of them might work on the doors and then go and do something else. But there's always that group of people that will realise that there's amazing opportunities for them. I mean we've got Dan Chennery on our stand, he's our head of client support centre now, but he started off way back when with Dave Fullerton on the door, and he's just worked his way all the way up. He's a great story of how you can start from a door supervisor and work your way up to a senior role. So, case studies, I really want businesses to really show those those stories and like that momentum and how you can move up the career ladder because I think there are so many examples across the whole industry, not just professional security policy group, across all companies where people have moved their way up, and we need to be shouting about that and talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

I completely agree. Um, and actually, I'll I'll talk to Satira after this, no doubt she would love to support that. We're always pushing specifically on diversity, we talk about women, but actually, in that diversity group, it's this is another element of diversity we need to attract younger talent, and you're right. We should hunt out for some of those success stories. Yeah, I think that would be uh it'd be great to tap into you guys first and then leave lead by example, yeah, which you're clearly doing. Like with the no guard alone, like with everything that you're already doing, the branding, everything you are absolutely smashing it, and I think Dave and team are very lucky to have you. I feel privileged that I've had an opportunity to talk to you today, um, and I'll continue to stalk you. And obviously, I don't know if we've got a selfie yet. Did we do one yet? We're gonna do it again. Um but before we wrap it up, is there anything else that you want to say, I suppose, to women outside?

SPEAKER_02 16:41

No, I mean thank you for inviting me on. Um I mean a few years ago I didn't know anyone. Um you know, Satia is absolutely amazing for giving connections. You are also amazing. Thank you. You're such a big supporter of me on LinkedIn, and like I say, you store me, I also store you quite a lot.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

That day you got that aboard. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

I know, um but it just feels like there's a family. Um I really was excited to come here today because I know so many people and I'm I'm super confident and super proud, and I just want to keep doing what I'm doing, and next year I'll have done something else, no doubt.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Thank you as well though for your um your honesty about the fact that like you say that it's so nice to see you like going and happy and saying I'm confident, but equally early and saying, you know, it didn't start that way. No, and like for people to understand that it's okay if you don't feel that confidence, but it will grow with you as that yeah journey. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

I think it was very much imposter syndrome at the start because there's some big names here, you know, there's some big people that confident people. Um and I was like, yeah, this I can I could never get to this level.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

We all started somewhere. We did. Impulse syndrome, by the way. I love that word for a couple of words because actually all it really means is you're learning something new and don't shy away from it, lean in. Yeah, like well, and here you go, that's what happens. We're doing it. Success. Um look Sarah, thank you so much. And uh yeah, see you uh for a drink later, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Cheers.