Women in Industry #9: Jemma Brookes

Diversity and inclusivity are vital for the industry's growth, acknowledging the crucial importance of promoting gender diversity and inclusivity.

Hosted by Marie Tyler and powered by OrangeDoor, in partnership with IPSA and DARE - the Women In Industry series shines a spotlight on the journeys, perspectives and impact of women across the industry.

Episode 9: Jemma Brookes – MACO Door & Window Hardware

No One Is Coming to Promote You

A candid conversation on taking ownership of your career and shaping your own progression.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:19

How are you doing? Very well. Last day of the show. Now I know you only you popped in yesterday initially and then into today. Have you been to the show before? No, this is my first time at this particular show. Ah, right. Well, welcome. You're very welcome. And especially as a woman in industry, hence why we're here at this podcast today. We had a number of different um uh applications and also nominations for people to come and speak to us. And a few of them I knew, and I'm really chuffed to bits that actually most of the people I've interviewed this time I don't know, I've never met them before, and you are one of those people that I haven't met before, so it makes me even more curious, I suppose, to ask more questions because I just I really want to get to know you. Brilliant, yeah. And I'm excited about your topic today. No one is coming to promote you. Love that. Before we I mean, I was before we tuck in though, who is Gemma? How did you get into the industry?

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Um I got into product management first. Um a company I was working for originally got taken over by a larger corporation. Uh they offered me a product management role, um, and I liked the variety of it, which um I didn't have in the previous role. So I took it um and then I sort of was wanting a little bit more, and then I I came across the job of Mako and uh the rest is history, you know, nearly seven years with Macco and um it it's certainly been a journey, a really fun ride.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

And um in in that time, was it was it male-dominated environment coming in? Have you seen any change in terms of the amount of women, not just women, but diverse talent along those those years in that journey and the career that you've been here, Minister?

SPEAKER_01 2:04

So I've always worked in a male-dominated environment and um it's never sort of phased me in a way. Um I think because I was young, um a lot to say, quite opinionated. Um so I never felt really sort of intimidated or overwhelmed by that. But I think coming into the fenestration industry where I am now, it's and I'm getting that little bit older, you become a little bit more wise to things and you become more observant. Um but I think in the last few years there's a lot more um females coming in in a lot more senior roles as well, and the job role that I'm in coming into management has opened up a wealth of sort of networking at a completely different level, which really excites me with my journey coming through.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

And that probably steers us actually a little bit into what this main topic is all about because people don't just fall into those roles. Well, not all the time. No, not all the time. And you know, as you say, like no one's coming to promote you. So, what what tips, what advice, what do you want to share with our listeners and our watchers around what you've done or what you think other people could do and embrace to really help make that actually happen?

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Well, it was really interesting because um uh my boss at the time, he we have a very good relationship, quite close, we've travelled a lot together, so we talk about all sorts, and um he is sort of nearing 60, so retirement is on the cards, and we've spoken about it and uh his retirement in in five or six years. And it was a brief conversation I had with my brother at the time and and sort of succession planning and and how to sort of advance my career. And he literally was like, Well, what skills gap do you need to be considered for his role when he retires? Like it was the most it was obviously the most obvious question, and it never occurred to me, it took someone else to sort of highlight that. Um but from then on it just sort of stabled. I took that question back to work, um, I had uh asked that question in my appraisal, um, and then that opened a whole sort of world of conversations about where the business goes, where I go, um, and I my job and and and where Mako is now is completely different from a year ago.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

So great that he made that, I suppose, like you say, obvious statement, even though afterwards you thought, oh yeah, well, obviously, why not? Actually, um, I I love the fact that you were bold enough to be right, okay, actually, yeah, no, fair point. I'll go in and I'll ask the question. I don't know if that's necessarily women, I think everybody should do that, right? I mean just for women. Don't wait for it to come to you. Um, and then also um when you think about that conversation that you had when you asked that question, was it well received? Was it a yeah, sure, these are just the things you need to do, or was it a actually, yeah, we hadn't thought about that either. And like, what was their succession planning like?

SPEAKER_01 5:14

And and did it adapt slightly because you did that, or I think it it wasn't, I don't think it was a surprise. I think they were more surprised that someone had asked that question because I don't think generally it had been asked before. Um, the conversation was quite natural because we'd obviously talked about retirement, um, but it it was made clear that um there were obviously a skills gap. I I had been a product manager for the last sort of five or so years, um, and there was obviously a necessary step up into management, you know, people management, you know, strategy and everything else that comes with it. But they were really open to it. Uh I'd gone on to doing a course in leadership and management, which they supported me in. Um so once we had that conversation and agreed on a path and a process, it felt really quite natural going down like I should have really done it probably a long time ago.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Yeah. So never assume, ask the questions, um, and hopefully, if you are working for a decent company, which of course you are and were, then um then they'll take the steps if they want to keep you as a talent.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Yeah, I mean I do feel very lucky. I I love my job, I love the people that I work with, and the company is continuously uh improving and sort of getting people to you know feedback, where can we improve, and it's the investment in in employees across all of the subsidiaries, it's what do you need from MACO to succeed, not just professionally, personally as well. So I am actually quite lucky that the the guys I work for and with are very much pro in it doesn't matter who you are, but as long as you're willing to sort of put the effort in, so are they.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

That's so powerful, and you touched on that the investment piece as well, it's a very good point. I mean, you want to retain your people, it costs so much to even if it's not specifically the courses, but that knowledge, that skill set takes time to build that up. Why wouldn't you want to help them to um plan for that future and help them to literally map out that journey?

SPEAKER_01 7:25

These are the steps that you're going to be going through to get to it's incredibly important, and I think the industry is is now um waking up that we do need to sort of do some succession planning. We need to bring the younger generation in, we need to bring more diverse diversity into the workforce, um, and that takes a lot of time and effort, um, you know, training and experience. You know, at MACO, you know, my my old line manager Craig, he's been with business 36 years and he's a fountain of knowledge, so you know, we call upon him when no one else knows. Probably needs an AI bot to download his brain. That is a lot of knowledge. But you know, he's working incredibly hard to sort of share that knowledge. You know, it's not contained in that's mine, that's my little corner, I own that. It's you know, very open and honest conversations because you know, we all want to do well and we all want MacO or the company that we work for to survive. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

So it's it's a team response and effort, it's you know the person being proactive coming forward, but also the employer, maybe structuring out their succession planning and being proactive too. But it takes both, right? I mean, it it shouldn't solely be on the employer. I think they have the power to put a framework in place and inspire it, and like you say, with your reviews, different things, but I suppose the point of this conversation and to share to others is don't wait for that.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

No, because you have to have very open, honest conversations, and I'm lucky that you know we have weekly meetings, we have you know big general sales meetings where the whole company gets together, so we're always communicating and learning about different pieces. So I feel very comfortable and confident having those discussions, and then a piece of advice I got from our finance um uh finance officer, she was like, Well, if you don't ask, you don't get 100%. So that kind of gave me that permission to sort of keep going with that, and it's I think it just shows that that initiative that wanting to sort of excel, not just like I say, personally but professionally with that company. So um yeah, it's having the confidence to have those discussions, um, and sometimes you've got to do your research and you've got to sort of back it up of how it's going to affect the business, how it's going to affect the job role, you know, that particular employee or department. So you have to prepare for it and you have to do your research, but um yeah, don't ask, don't wait to be asked because now I know sort of managers aren't sitting back just going, Oh, I wonder if so and so wants a newer job, a better job at XYZ. They may assume you're happy where you are. Exactly. And I've always said, you know, in in appraisals, I just want to be really good at my job, and now on reflection, I'm like, what was that? What does that even mean? I'm good at my job, I know that, but what's the next step? And I think having that sort of ability to just think outside the next steps, what you can do, what you actually want to do, and that mission to say this is what I want. So let's have some open and honest conversations.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Be your own biggest fan, put yourself forward, ask the questions, don't assume because they're not.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

No, you have to, you have to, you have to let the business and the company or your line manager know what you want. Yes. And it might not always be possible, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Like you might, and that's fine. But as part of that conversation, it might be the extreme of okay, well, there isn't a future there, but I think in the most part there probably is, and it might not always be going up the ladder, it might also be more experience in a sidestep, too.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

You know, within MACO, you know, we have 28 people, so we don't have layers of layers of sort of um going into line management, senior management, XYZ, but we're quite flat, so it's not always about going up, it is sometimes about going across. And there's so much more in the industry that you can know and learn and experience, and sometimes sidestepping leads you on to bigger and better things.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Yeah, exposing you to things that you didn't know about before, and then you might actually find you're more passionate about that. Yeah, and also there's always transferable skills as well, isn't there, and different things that you can utilise, and ultimately those core skills that make you up as a person and what you bring to the workplace are only going to get even more powerful with the wider knowledge set that you expose yourself to. Definitely, I could agree more. Well, I'm all for that 100%. Uh, my whole freaking journey was very similarly scenario of having to just put myself forward, put myself out there, uh, probably talking too much, but then you know what, it's landed for this gig, which is great. Um I love to chat to people. And you are so right, and and actually, even though it seems, as you said right at the start, obvious, people are doing it. So we're saying now, Gemma's saying, I'm saying, do it, speak up for yourself, put yourself forward, ask the question, uh, and let us know how you get on. Yeah, and and be prepared to put in the work. It's not easy. No, good point. We're not just asking, get it. You're not gonna get it on a silver. Don't ask you don't get, by the way, you don't just get it, but you get an opportunity is what you get.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

And then it's what you make of that opportunity. You have to take that ownership and that responsibility, and you you take out what you put in. Uh, so you you've got to put, if this is what you want, put your heart and soul into it.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

That's a good point. Because you were like, well, you asked for it. Be careful what you wish for. Yeah, be very careful. Honestly, Gemma, thank you so much. It's really important that people um understand how amazing this very simple approach could genuinely help change the path of their career. So, thank you for lagging it. Thank you for being here, thank you for being a woman in this industry. Thank you for having me, it's been a lot of fun. Right.