Women in Industry #11: Zoe Poulton

Diversity and inclusivity are vital for the industry's growth, acknowledging the crucial importance of promoting gender diversity and inclusivity.

Hosted by Marie Tyler and powered by OrangeDoor, in partnership with IPSA and DARE - the Women In Industry series shines a spotlight on the journeys, perspectives and impact of women across the industry.

Episode 11: Zoe Poulton – Oprema

Still Showing Up: Leadership, Loss, and Living with Endometriosis

A powerful and honest conversation about building a successful career while navigating endometriosis, major surgeries, loss, and motherhood, and what meaningful workplace support really looks like in practice.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:19

So nice to meet you in person, probably. Um, what ships in the night, right? Been in the industry, been at events, done things, but this is our first time having a other than our little free chat, which is lovely. Face to face first. This is it, real life IRL, is that what the young people say in real life? Um you know more than I do. So thank you for coming on. And I know that this was prompted by I put a LinkedIn post out about a part of this topic in dometiosis. Yes. And you commented and I reached out to you, and I said, actually, would you be willing to share your story? Because there are other topics like, and now my brain's gone dead, but many topics that get covered a lot, but I personally don't think. In general, endometriosis, I think, is starting to get more attention, but certainly in the security industry, and when I think about our women in industry, um, so many people since that post are not realising at different varying uh exposure and experiences, but more common than actually is thought. And yeah, 19 Group have put out an announcement I'd said to you recently that they're formally making it something that they will support if any time off's needed or whatever is required, and recognising it as a real thing, which I thought was very powerful. But even without any announcements, the support that you have had and the journey that you've gone on, and still smashing it and all the way up to the top, despite all of your hurdles, I know it's an inspiring story, and so I can't wait for you to now share that story. So, over to you, Zoe.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Okay, so I've um I joined a free robot 80 years ago. Uh I joined as marketing manager and I was uh promoted into the senior leadership team uh just over two years ago. Uh so during that time we've sort of grown the grown the marketing team and we've had a rebrand, there's been a lot going on. Um I'm the only lady on the on the team as well, so in the senior leadership team is all men, just uh just myself. So that's quite daunting anyway, and you know, heavily male-dominated industry, must be what 90% male dominated, and you know, you can pick out the the odd women uh in between. But a prima's actually, I think we're about 50-50. There's a lot of uh of women within the sales team, um, internal sales, purchasing, marketing. So we've got a really good mix.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

But so I since joining a Prima, so I started developing a lot of symptoms, endometriosis type symptoms, from probably about two years into my journey at Aprima, so yeah, yeah, about six years ago I'd say. Um I've got a son who's 10, um, had no problems before having him, and I just started having a lot of pain and cramps and um just symptoms that wasn't really normal, I guess. Um, which ended up one day I ended up in AE with like horrific cramps, didn't know what it was, and didn't know if it was a cyst or something or appendicitis. Rushed into AE and they found something on my ovary, so I was rushed for like MRIs and so on, and then ended up having surgery and they found endometriosis. So the first surgery, you know, because it was just sort of like an emergency thing, uh, there was really more diagnosis and there wasn't much more than that. However, when I came around after the surgery, the surgeon uh said to me there was a lot, a lot of endometriosis in there, bowel, bladder, um, ovaries, uh you know, everywhere. They even found around my diaphragm, it'd gone up uh further than that, so he said, Oh, you're gonna need another surgery. So thankfully, all of this was done through work, so I had a really quick diagnosis. I had three surgeries in total. Um say through work, do you mean private medical? Yeah, so we've got private medical uh with Boop before that was vitality, and they were superb. And you know, I know you hear the stories of people waiting seven, eight, nine, ten years to get diagnosed, yeah. And then you're waiting on waiting lists for you know, the the NHS is great, but unless it's like it's if you're dying, you know, if it's an emergency, then they they're great. But for any surgery day to day, people just wait years and years. And I don't think, unless you've had it or you know someone else who's had it, how debilitating it can be. Um, and I'm someone that like always put a smile on my face and just want to get on with it, and I you know, I burns all over my stomach from using hot water bottles without covers on and taking tablets all the time. Like you know, the girls in my team will say a couple of times, I'd have to go and have a sleep in the car because uh at lunchtime I'd go and have 10-15 minutes because I just felt completely out of it, we were wiped, and you know, it gets to the point where it you know you can only take a certain amount of painkillers and do your job and work, you know. So it was just uh come a time where there was nothing else they could do than do a full hysterectomy. So about 18 months ago I had a full hysterectomy, um, ovaries as well, I haven't taken and so I've now gone into menopause at 39, um, but it's been the best thing I've ever done. I've worked with was superb throughout, so um I was told strictly I had to have like the full eight weeks off and make sure I didn't rush back, there was no pressure to come back, um, and then you know I could go back and do a few hours, gradual return. I've had like working from home days when I've needed, and just a massive amount of support. And um, like I know for a fact Gareth, our MDs that you know he didn't know anything about it, and as soon as I'd said what it was, and I think he thought it's obviously something serious for someone to be having a hysterectomy in their 30s, you know, and it's not something that they do likely. So he looked it up and researched it, and it's you know it's been brilliant, and so is the the rest of the team. There was no pressure about coming back or yeah, trying to work through it or anything. So um I'm really lucky that I've had that. Uh, and there's there's another lady actually in um in the prima as well that has um has suffered and has recently had hysterectomy. So I just think any raising awareness is is great. We had endometriosis as our charity of the year last year as well because you know we always have you always hear the big charities, don't you? You know, which is still you know great, great, but um when we put a charity forward, we all nominate a charity and it gets voted, and that was what was voted last year. So yeah, we raised a bit of cash for them, and it's but it's more about the awareness, you know, and the little charity days that we did. Uh so yeah, you know, work I couldn't, yeah, couldn't thank enough, they've been excellent, um, and my family and stuff are great, and I think the more people that know about it, um, you know, I suppose because it's a male-dominated industry and there are less less women, and I'm an open book, I'm I you know, I'm really honest and I I I wear my heart on my sleeve and I I'm quite open will tell anyone um about my journey and stuff, but I suppose if some people aren't and it's a little bit it's like periods, menopause, it's still all a bit like taboo in it. People feel really awkward talking about it, so um yeah, but they've been great.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

And we shouldn't feel awkward about it because it can't be helped. We still don't really know even actually how endometiosis starts. I know they've got theories and so on, but actually, yeah. And when you said it went up into your diaphragm, and everyone would always, and myself included before we spoke, just assume that it's a a gynee issue.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

A gynecy, yeah, yeah. And I think that I saw something on a post the other day on uh Facebook or something, and they said that the problem is I think as soon as people have symptoms, they said to a gynecologist, which is great, but it's it's a full-body thing, it's not just that there were cases apparently there's like on people's brains and stuff like it, you know. And it was uh someone had said to me that um so on the diaphragm it's called thoracic endometriosis, which is like 1% of people who have endometriosis can have thoracic endometriosis, but after the diaphragm it goes to your lungs, and that's when you can like cough up blood during a period, you know, um and you can get a collapsed lung. And they said that generally they only realise people have that when each month they're going in with a collapsed lung to AE and they realise it's just with a cycle. Yeah, um, and I think that's the problem, that it is like a multidisciplined thing. So I was where I was really lucky with the private medical care is that when I had surgery, it was like a nine-hour surgery, and it was a bowel surgeon, a bladder surgeon, and a gynee surgeon. Wow. Whereas if that had been NHS, that probably would have been three different surgeries, which you might have waited two years for one, another two years for another, and then it's more recovery time, more time off work, you know. Um, you know, in that time, how much medication have you taken, how many doctors' appointments have you had, how many days sick have you had? Um, and I'm one to really try and power through and you know, and and not try and let it affect work. And I think especially when you're the only woman in the team, that you don't want it to, you know what I it's like. You just want to, you know, be there and like put for your all into it, um, and you don't want to be off for like women's problems, you know. So yeah, you do what you can, but um yeah, thankfully I've got a yeah really supportive workplace that were that were excellent and yeah, much much better now since the surgery.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

There's definitely astigmatism, isn't there, generally around women's problems, as you say. Like I think just when I think about a lot of the narratives that we challenge in this industry, like around women or inclusivity and other topics, this is another one of those that you know ultimately are more traditional, maybe more as you say, male-oriented. There's just a natural way that the conversation has always been. I mean, even in our homes, my own dad would be like, Oh, women's problems. You know, I think, well, yeah, but you know, it's actually it's a problem, yeah. Yeah, um, and actually it's not just a woman's problem because in that scenario, there is an entire workforce that is dependent on you in a role, and as you say, especially being in this in this, I agree with you, male-dominated space where you want to be like, Yeah, don't let anything get in your way, never mind a woman, just any problem, it's like you want to prove yourself. So I think it's amazing what Gareth's done, it's amazing what um a prima um is doing, and the what he's gonna say as well was your private medical health insurance actually in this scenario is an investment in your people because had you not had that, as you say, not to say that I'm sure they still would have been there for you when you come back, but actually that investment has enabled you to do, as you say, have all of those surgeries at once, be able to return quicker. So, actually, probably shout out to any company that's not providing private medical health insurance. Clearly, there is a benefit to the employer doing that.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Yeah, definitely. You know, when you think that it's there's no cure for it for endometriosis, and you will have a monthly cycle where you could have whether you like it or not, you can have you know, I used to have a horrendous week before my period and during my period, it's half the month, yeah, you know, yeah, so that's half of your time throughout the whole year where you're gonna be not yourself and you're suffering, and you know, we talked about you know, if you stood up and doing like a presentation, or you know, we do like false company updates and things like that, and you know, you've got to be on the you've got to be on the ball, haven't you? You've got to know your stuff, and there's nothing worse when you get that that pain and that dread. And and I think I was in pain every day and I didn't really realise it. Um I think what I thought was normal because I it had been a gradual thing over you know a period of time, I just popping a bit every day just to try and reduce the pain or whatever. Yeah, yeah, and I think you know, I was I was using a hot water bottle you know without the cover on my stomach, and you know, my consultant said to me the reason that's working for you is you said you're killing all the nerves. You are literally killing the nerves in your stomach, in all you know, so you can't feel anything because that pain of the burn is less than the you know the pain of the endometriosis. But I'm one of the lucky ones because I've you know I've had the private medical care, I had a really quick diagnosis, but there are people out there that you know, and I've got a child, you know, I I suffered with fertility problems following him. I had two miscarriages as well, but there are there are people out there that find out too late and they can't have children, or they've got to have a lot of IVF, or you know, they it's it's really difficult and it's really debilitating for people, and uh you know, like we said, because there's no cure, but it's like where does it end, you know? Um and I think it's it's just gotta be brought to the brought to the front brought the limelight for people to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

I suppose maybe it is obvious, but it wasn't obvious to me that there is in fact a charity or any charities for it. Yeah, is is it called?

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Is it just I think it's Endometriosis UK it's called. Um I think their big month is March and they do a big push in March. Yes, remember the campaign. Yeah, yeah. And they uh I think they say we're yellow because I think we're all dressed in yellow one day and stuff like that, but um, you know, it's it's it's a relatively small charity. They usually have a lot of like charity spaces for things like you know, like London Marathon and different brands because it's a less known charity. But I think this the stats are something like one in ten now with endometriosis, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

They have to do more because like you're saying now, even the doctors or or wherever the diagnosis, perhaps even at your local surgery, they they need more information as well. It's not just us suffering and also the employers get to know that it's a real issue, but there's clearly a lot more to learn about it because I mean even in the you know they're saying it, aren't they, in the news? Like, oh it's not it, they know it's not a guining issue, but they still don't fully understand the extent.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Yeah, and it's like so if it's not a guining issue, who looks after that?

SPEAKER_01 14:02

You know, and and unlike your scenario, it fell with what four or five different yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

You know, and how do they set that up NHS wise? You know, it's it's uh really difficult, but it yeah, something needs to needs to change because there are so many women that are in a position where they you know they're in their 30s and they've you know tried for baby, can't have a baby, and then they find out when it's too late because that's awful. Like to take that away from a woman to to not be able to become a mother. It's like it not for everyone, for a lot of people. That's like what's in them that they've always wanted to do, and you know, I think that's uh yeah, a real real struggle. So um, yeah, hopefully, you know, the more we talk about it, the more will be done, and more raise for charity and stuff, and yeah, more investment. And I think it was in the in the commons, wasn't it? And I think they've they've passed something to get some more funding, but yeah, who knows.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

But I think there may be a simple call to action to anyone who's listening now. If you are either the leader of an organisation or you can go to your leadership team and help them to recognise that this is a real thing, get the information that's required, spread the word, hopefully have your culture HR teams, get it on the agenda when you're talking well-being or you're looking at private medical and all the things. Um they need to, like everyone now, educate yourself, find out about it, don't make it, don't let it be a taboo subject, let it come front of a house and lead by example on a prima, like support your people, invest in your people with their health. And I mean, you went, what was it? You've gone, is it three different roles?

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah, so sort of like marketing manager, senior marketing manager to head of marketing, yeah, and you know literally smashed despite all of that, I've still done that.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah. You are an inspiration. Um, your story is epic, they're lucky to have you. We're lucky to have you in the industry. Thank you so much for sharing your story.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Yeah, no problem at all. Thank you for asking. Cheers, Zoe. Cheers.