SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Finish Strong, the show that equips men to walk boldly in their faith and finish the risk of life with no regrets. The Word of God challenges each of us to run with endurance. In a world full of distractions and challenges, we're here to help you to stay grounded in God's Word, lead with integrity, and live with meaning and purpose. Come along as your host Jeff Drawn helps to equip you by having real conversations with successful men who will tell their stories of perseverance. Clothed in biblical truth, these powerful stories will give you practical wisdom to show how you start. It's how you finish.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

Welcome to Finish Strong. Every few months on this podcast, we're going to have an episode called Ask a Pastor. You know, many people have questions about their faith, about the Bible, but for whatever reason, we're scared to ask the experts who are the pastors. You know, these guys are studied, uh, they're qualified to answer these tough questions. Uh so this is gonna be your opportunity. So I'd encourage you to send your questions to us. Every few months we'll have this segment. Uh, but today I'm honored to have my pastor and my good friend Todd Strain. Uh Todd's a senior pastor here at Calvary Baptist Church in Alexandria, Louisiana. He and his wife, Megan, have three children: Joel Lee, Sarah, and Rustin. And they do have one dog named Buddy. Uh but Todd was born and raised here in Alexandria. He's a proud graduate of Louisiana Tech University and Southwest Seminary. Um, not at church, uh, he enjoys spending time with his family. And I know that Todd loves to run, he loves to golf, and uh really anything out of sports related, Todd loves. So being the senior pastor of a large church, you're probably thinking that Todd has just cruised through life. Well, just like everyone, Todd has had his bumps along the way. Uh, but it's not how you start, it's how you finish. And Todd Strain definitely has a plan for finishing strong. Welcome to the podcast, Todd. Yeah. Glad to be here. Great to see you, man. Yeah. So this is this is personal for me. Uh Todd's a great friend of mine, also happens to be my pastor. Yeah. So uh so great, great to have you here on this first of the Ask a Pastor segment. So uh we're gonna stump you. We're gonna think of everything. We're gonna think of every uh every hard question we could ask you. So yeah. Uh but hey, before we get started, Todd, you know, some listening today might may not kind of know about your background. So tell us a little bit about your growing up years. You grew up here in Alexandria, how you grew up, and yeah, and some things like that.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

So yeah, I mean, grew up here in Alexandria, um really raised here near the church and and other places, but um grew up in church. Parents were believers, you know, Sunday school teachers, dad was a deacon, uh, that kind of thing. So we attended, grew up at Calvary, uh, the church of which I'm a pastor now, and so which is kind of unique. But uh grew up here, uh really came to know the Lord when I was in sixth grade, uh, so age 11. Uh kind of knew some things about the Lord, but it was then understood my sin, professed Christ, was baptized, uh, and and so that's kind of my story, even testimony. Kind of grew up in church, was involved in youth group, that kind of thing. And so probably probably the the uh probably the feature of of my childhood that probably had left the the biggest imprint of my life was probably my dad getting sick and eventually dying. That was in my teenage years. And so uh, you know, I I think that that going through that experience really, I mean, shaped the rest of my life, you know. I wouldn't be here today if uh if I didn't really go through that experience. And so it was um though difficult, you know, I know God used it. And uh so that that's kind of a big part of really my childhood that I that I can recall and remember, you know. Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:49

So and I know college was a big part of your story as well, right? So you left here and had a good foundation of faith accepted Christ here, but then you went on to college, and that's where God continued to get a hold of your life, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Right, right. So so my my father's death was during my senior year in high school. And so, yeah, you kind of kind of dovetail that into college. And so uh really my my freshman year at college was a time really God did get get a hold of my life. You know, I was kind of kind of in college making my own decisions. I did have a brother. My brother was there, uh, you know, kind of charted a path for me, but I had to make my own decisions that was there. God really got a hold of my life and really started doing, you know, really, really made my faith my own, kind of during those those first few years of college and kind of took it from there. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Uh and so who were kind of some of your biggest influence? I know your five father had a big influence in your life. So who were some of your influences, maybe those high school years and maybe into the college years? Who who kind of shaped who you are?

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Yeah, I mean, I can think of some definitely some men in the church, you know, here at Calvary during those teenage years and even through early college. Uh Dr. Brooks, my predecessor as pastor, well, he was the youth minister when I was here, and uh he had a uh a big impact on on my teenage years and and formation, spiritual formation. One thing he always impressed upon me was uh to have that daily quiet time, you know, time of of daily time of prayer and the word. And so that that has stuck with me. I mean, I just just imprinted over and over and over. I had other men in the the church that taught either Sunday school or uh you know Wednesday nights. Uh there's a couple of men still go here, Kenny Clark, Keith Brazil, you know, I think of uh, you know, I'm thankful they put up with me and a bunch of my knucklehead friends, you know, but but they they they they kind of filled some roles as father figures and as disciplers to really kind of shape shape my faith during those years. And getting into college is really where I met some some really some solid brothers in Christ that really poured into me who were a little further along in their faith and uh pulled me out, you know. And I remember in college, kind of the first thing that that that a guy invited me to, like to be a part of, you know, we we talk about uh disciple groups and small groups, and I I wasn't really a part of that, but he invited me to a uh a prayer group. Like this was my freshman year, and and he invited me to a prayer group. It was at 11 p.m. on a Thursday night, you know, at at a guy's house. And so just going to be a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

Today I can't imagine that. No, no, no, right. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

11 p.m. on Thursday night, and I was like, sure, I'll go. And but it was just a bunch of college guys, and a lot of them are older than me, and so I looked up to them and man, we just for an hour would would pray, and that really stretched me, uh, really shaped me, and that kind of was the catalyst to really take my faith seriously and start owning it. But those are those are just some some snippets and some influences, you know, that I had.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

So those those unsung heroes, I mean, those youth workers in our church, in our church today, but yeah, in churches all across Louisiana, all across the United States, thinking about all those just unsung heroes that are teaching RAs and teaching Sunday school class and teaching all those things. And uh we were joking the other night. I think the only thing I've ever quit in my life, I'm not I'm not a quitter. I'm once I start something that was drilled in me, you don't quit. Right, right. When when Dana and I first moved back to Alexandria, we got to start getting involved in Calvary and we didn't have kids. We're like, okay, let's start getting involved in something. Uh so I started teaching RAs. Okay. And so uh so me and another young lady at the time uh started teaching that, and uh, I guess it was about four months in. I said, Dana, I can't do this. I said, I can't do it. I said, I I just I this is not my calling. There was like fourth grade boys. I'm like, I just can't do this. So nothing's getting through to them. Right. They're running around crazy. So it was the Brazil kids. Okay. I'm sure McAllamunt was probably in there. I mean, just all the all the guys that are now grown in their 30s. Right. But it was the only thing I've ever quitted. So that was it, you tapped out. I was out. So those are unsung heroes out there that are doing that year in and year out.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

So 100%, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:55

Uh and just you know, in college, you know, I think about my college year, same as you, the the people in ministry in college that influenced me such an influential time in our lives. Sure. Uh crucial. So so at what point did you realize, okay, I'm studying, I'm I'm I think you were thinking about going to medical school at one point. So at what point did God kind of get a hold of you that you need to do this ministry thing full-time?

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Yeah. So that was um really starting as my sophomore year of college. You know, kind of my story is uh the summer before that, before my so it was the summer between my freshman year in college, sophomore, sophomore year in college, uh, went through a Bible study through experiencing God. And so you you're aware of that. Other people may be aware of that. And so I went through experiencing God. It was really through that, um, through that Bible study, God really started, you know, really moving within me and caught, I felt like he was calling me to something. And and I can take you back to uh to uh uh a Sunday school class, a college Sunday school class here at Calvary, uh, the summer of my freshman year. So God, it this is all coming together, right? You know, working together. Uh that uh guy Lee Sanders, you know, you know Lee. Lee was teaching it that summer, and and we really just started talking about uh your your career path, your vocation. And really he just asked the question have you ever considered this is what God wants for you? Just that simple question. And I really thought, I don't really think I've ever considered that. Is what I'm wanting to do what God wants for me. And so those things working together took me about 10, 11 months to wrestle with uh with what God exactly wanted from me. And really at the end of my sophomore year is when I really committed to you know what we call vocational ministry, you know. So that kind of led to that. I mean started with this experience in God Bible study, prompted by a question in a Sunday school class. Again, unsung heroes, people just teaching a class, and um just through that next year wrestling with that and ended commitment and I haven't looked back since.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

Amazing and then got into college ministry, did that for many years. That's right. So, how did that college ministry shape you to be a senior pastor? How did that shape you along the way? And did was it your desire to be a senior pastor, or was it your desire to continue to do college ministry?

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Well, really, I after I went to seminary, you know, um, so to graduate school, got my master's divinity, uh, I was really still I was still on that journey, like, God, what do you what do you want? You know, I still didn't have this, I felt like this clear calling. There were other guys around me that they just had this clear, I'm gonna plant a church or be a youth minister or missionary, whatever. And I I honestly didn't have this like clarity, and uh just had this opportunity to do collegiate ministry at at on college campuses, Baptist collegiate ministry. And I knew it uh the collegiate years were of course uh real influential for me and impactful for me. So I I said, okay, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna interview, got the job, and we kind of go from there. And uh really those 11 years of of collegiate ministry really were were really in uh really full of of discipleship and missions. Like that's the heartbeat of what we did. You know, it was evangelism on campus, but it was discipleship of students there and also missions. And so that's always been my heartbeat. Uh it's always one of the so as far as being shaped as a as a pastor, you know, I I think that um you know, I've always that's always been heartbeat and passion, and that's I think hopefully what what we're about here at at Calvary, you know, and I think it um just put within me uh the desire to see those, you know, those traits, those fruits come out and people, you know, as they mature in Christ. So um so college college ministry was awesome. You know, you saw a lot of immediate impact. I've noticed, you know, even on church staff, you'd always it it's a it's a longer game, right, to see, but but the desire is still there to see what happens.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

Yeah, yeah. Well, I I saw it early on. I mean, I know you came back to Calvary many times and kind of were guest preaching while you were doing those college ministries. And I remember telling my wife early on, or early couple first couple of sermons, like when David Brooks retires one day, that needs to be Todd Straight. And so I not that I had anything to do with that, but I think many people saw that. That that saw that.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

It's interesting you say that. I I I you know, I'm you know, you know how some some people when they leave hometown, they're like, I'm never coming back, you know. I said that. Yeah. I didn't. I mean, I didn't I wasn't opposed to it, you know. I mean, for goodness sake, I I moved to Lake Charles and Monroe, you know, and like you know, these great big metropolises, but I I enjoyed everywhere I lived. And so when the opportunity came for me to come here, I I just prayed through it, you know, and and since the Lord really the story was, you know, as I was praying and and really searching really what God wanted, you know, I was just kept rem being reminded of the story of you know those early disciples about dropping the nets. And you gotta some point you gotta drop the nets and go, you know. So um, so and 13 years later here we are.

SPEAKER_03 12:50

So well, we're we're very thankful that God let you drop your nets right here in central Louisiana. Just so thankful for you being here. Just uh can't can't tell you how much we love you and appreciate you as a church family. So thanks, uh so let's talk about just your faith. You know, just your faith. Uh, you know, obviously you're a professional Christian as we like to call you, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

But so I've learned I've never heard that term until I got here.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

So we we we messed with Todd and the men's ministry that uh you guys are professional Christians, but uh but so just talk about your faith, you know, because you're leading a large church. Yeah. Uh you're leading you have a lot of responsibilities. I can't imagine just the number of phone calls, text, emails, contacts you get on a daily basis with such a large church family. So how do you balance out being kind of the senior pastor, yeah, but also knowing that you have to have your own personal walk with Jesus? How do you how do you balance those two things out?

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Yeah. Well, I mean, I I'll take you back to something I learned in experiencing God, you know, and it was something Dr. Brooks taught, but also something was reinforced there. Uh, in that I I'm I I'm paraphrasing, summarizing here. I remember the story was in Experiencing God, they talked about um the relationship Billy Graham had with Dwight Eisenhower, you know, Eisenhower's president. Billy Graham's kind of the the hot new young evangelist, you know, he's winning the country for the Lord, and and what was an influence on Eisenhower. And one day Eisenhower called Billy Graham's office, you know, or his people call his people, whatever the story went. And and the secretary, the uh the assistant for for Billy Graham said, Well, he's gonna have to call you back. You know, he's busy right now, you know, and and the president was taken back, like who doesn't take my call when I call? And so sure enough, Billy Graham called him back in due time. And and Eisenhower asked, Well, what was so important that that you were, you know, had to put me on hold, you know, and and call me back later. He said, Well, I was spending time with the Lord. That was my time with the Lord. And he said, if I'm gonna be of any use to you, then I need to be in prayer in the word. You know, incredible. And so I I've I I think that's so true, right? I mean, that's not just in in in ministry, but any arena of life, right? If you want to be the kind of dad you want to be, or the the the employee you want to be, or or whatever, then it's important that you allow the Lord to pour into you, or you're not gonna be who they need you to be. And so that's always stuck with me, and um I think that's first and foremost is having a personal faith, right? Pursuing the Lord on your own. And that's it's always been important to me. And I I that's I I think it starts there, you know. And um wherever the Lord you know wants to lead, and from there, you know, I I want to put myself in a place to hear it and have you know receive what he has for me.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Well, I hope the listeners, uh, if you've listened to all the podcast, uh all of our guests so far, when asked that question, yeah, uh, has gone back to their personal alone time we got. And so every single response has been that same response. So we're seeing a pattern here. So if you're not spending time alone with the Lord, and you know, just look at Jesus' life. You know, there was no more, no one more busy, no one more important or sought after than Jesus, but he made the time. He made the time to go off in a lone place and spend time with his father. So what a what an example to us.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yeah, and for sure.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

But how easily we can get distracted. Because as you're telling that story, I'm thinking about how many times I've gotten interrupted during my quiet time or saying, hey, I'll do my quiet time later, really. You know, and it never happens, of course. You know, and so when you put it off like that, but uh incredible, incredible foundation. So uh so what about family? Just how do you balance the family life? How do you kind of put those boundaries up around work and family? Because a lot of guys listen to this or you know, they have trouble kind of balancing out their not being present at home when they're at home because they're thinking about work. Right, right. And then maybe when they're at work, they're thinking about family or whatever. So how do you how do you put those boundaries around and kind of balance that part of your life?

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Well, I I I you know I do I wish there was like a playbook for this, right? You know, I mean because I I I know my own um the the the particulars of my job, you know, may may differ from other people, so I'm not sure, but but I know from my experience, you know, it's it is the the challenge is to be present, you know, when you are there, right? Uh and so there's an element uh of that. But but I think you know, I think it's just having a priority to make family time a priority. I think for me, here here's just really here's where I am as a senior pastor. You can imagine senior pastor of our church. Uh there's a lot of opportunities to do a lot of stuff, and there is. There's no doubt about it. Okay. And you you can you can fill up your calendar very quickly. So you do have to learn to to uh to say no sometimes, but saying no just means uh maybe you're you're making sure it's taken care of, but you just personally don't have to handle it. So a lot of that's trusting other people to do things on your behalf or on behalf of the church, or you know, so that may have some application in someone else's areas like you personally don't always have to be the one to do it. But I think for me, even personally, in my stage of life, uh two kids in college, um, but I have one at home still, so that you know, a ninth grader is still at home. I think it's important uh for me uh to make time for them, right? So, you know, um time for the ones away at college looks different now. But you know, the ones at home. So that means that even in my what we would call free time, okay, or you know, however you want to define that, that I'm gonna have to say no to some hobbies, right? Like if if I really only have eight hours on a Saturday of free time for the week, you know, it'd be easier for me to go, I can fill five and a half, six hours of that with a round of golf. Yeah. Really, it leaves me like maybe two hours of of any margin to really spend any quality time with with my son, you know. And so I think a lot of it's you just have to you have to say no to a lot of you know, and I heard a pastor say that one time. A lot of times it's not just saying no, just not now. You know, in this season of life, yeah. To to to spend five hours, you know, total for a round of golf every week is just unrealistic if I want to also make time for my family. And I wish I could. I mean, I I love golf. I'm not hating on golf. I'm gonna play as much as I can. Yes. And and trying to find ways to connect, you know, and and do that with my son, you know, things. But but I think in the end, that's to me the balance, you know, not a playbook, but at the same time, I think it means you just gotta say no to some things. I mean, because every every every no to one thing is yes to the other, and anything you say yes, it's no to something else.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

So I don't know. Uh same same boat. I mean, when my girls were growing up, I I was finding myself spending four or five hours on a Saturday on the golf course for a year or two, and I'm like, what am I doing? You know, and I think some guys probably influenced me in that. Right. And I kind of gave up golf for about 20 plus years and just picked it up here about a year ago again. But just but it's a different season of life. We're empty nesters now, we've got the time. Right. My wife's encouraging me to get out of here. Get out versus you need to be here. Let you play 36. Exactly. Yeah. So uh but it is, it's all about choices, as we talk about all the time. You know, it is a yes is a no to a thousand other things. And so uh amen to that. So um okay, so enough with the softball questions. Okay. So let's get the hard-hitting questions here. So let's get to our our QA. Okay. Um so just again, you know, I I think a lot of people have questions about faith, and um, you know, how do you practically apply it to your life? And uh and you're studied, you're seminary, you know, graduate, and you're studying the word all the time. And so not to put yourself, not to put you up on a pedestal here, but I am, you know. But uh but just you know, it's questions of faith, the questions people have. I know you probably get those from time to time, but you know, one of the questions I hear being asked of pastors and people in ministry is a lot is um, how do I determine the will of God for my life? And I don't know if you get this, but you know, people say, you know, what you know, should I take this job? Is it the will of God? Right. Should I get married to this person? It's the will of God. So uh first, A, I guess do you get those kind of questions about the will of God? And then two, how what's the best way to determine God's will in your life? What's how do you determine that?

SPEAKER_00 20:59

Well, that's a kind of the first answer is I think obviously it was a more, I don't know, pressing but uh kind of uh urgent uh question in in years of college ministry, right? You know, they're making lifelong decisions, marriage and career major, that kind of thing, you know. So and you know, talked about that a lot. I think here in in a church ministry setting, it is probably plays out in a little different context than that, but it is like you know, taking a new job or or purchasing this, or should I do that, and just kind of like what are the factors? And so it may not be I guess what I'm saying it may not be just outright, you know, explicitly, hey, what is you know how to determine the will of God? But it it's in you know, it's kind of implicit in the question, you know, or in the situation. And you know, uh one thing I I would always share with people as far as determining the will of God, you know, something I learned from Tommy Nelson, who you know just recently I think retired, you know, as a decades long uh pastor at Didden Bible Church. And uh like he says, you know, in God's word there are there They're right and wrong, you know, decisions and they're right and left decisions, right? So here's how I would say to that. Right and wrong decisions are like questions of morality, you know. Uh I I would say God's word speaks to those, you know. I mean, if not outright, which you know, 95% of morality issues we deal with on a daily basis, the word speaks directly to it. The other 5%, let's say, you're gonna find principles in God's word to help help you make that decision. So to me, those can be pretty clear. Yes, a little nuance maybe here or there, but now the right and left decisions I think is probably more what we're talking about is, you know, in some ways both options are good, right? Should I buy this house or that house? Should I take this job or that that job? And um, and I think with that, I think it's just a heart check of, okay, am I in a good place before the Lord to to hear from him? Okay. Going through again, I think the Bible still speaks to those, those issues, right? I mean, we know what if you're trying to purchase something, well, I mean, biblical uh, you know, wisdom on money is still in play there, you know. Um, you know, priorities talking about is this gonna take away from family time? Is this gonna, you know, so I think you still have certain principles within scripture can help you make those decisions, but I believe, Jeff, in the end, you know, sometimes you come to a point, there's a deadline of sorts, whatever that is, you just have to make a decision, right? Like, hey, they need to know by Friday if I want the job or not, you know. So what do you do? I I say you pray, and I've I've this may not be the best answer, and it may not be satisfactory, but I'm huge. Through Proverbs 3, 5 and 6, okay? Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Lean not on your own understanding. So I what's a direct application of that? Prayer. Like, are you going to God in prayer if you prayed about it? Then verse 6, I believe this. In all your ways, acknowledge him. So you're submitting to him with this, then he'll direct your steps. So, what does that mean? I got to trust that he's sovereign. I've prayed about it. There's a deadline. I got to make a decision, yes or no, right, left, whatever. And I'm going to pray that he's sovereign and he's directing my steps. Now, that doesn't mean there's still gonna be a little uncertainty. I get that. Yes, but I have to trust if he says that, then it's true. He's gonna be sovereign over my decision because I've asked him.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

I've I've submitted my way to him, saying, God, you direct my paths, and maybe it's not lined out, you know, that in the sky that I can see it, but I have to trust he's sovereign and he's gonna, and then I make the decision, I move with it, you know, trusting he's he's in it.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

So that's really good. That's really good. And I just I know I had a major decision in my life years ago about uh a career decision and went to David Brooks and some more things like Jeff, this is not a moral decision. Right. This is not a right or wrong decision. This is not a you know biblical right or wrong decision. You know, it's the will of God is you go to Him in prayer and the same exact thing you just said.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

He'll direct your past. Amazing, amazing and I know on the front end that's that's hard. Hindsight's 2020, you look back, go, that's exactly how it works. But but I do think, I mean, yeah, at some point in decisions of of God's will, you know, whether I say yes or no, right or left, I always say at some point you gotta make the decision, or I'd say you've got to pull the trigger. I mean, at some point you gotta make a decision. And so what do you do is trust God that you've you've prayed, you've given it to him, you've asked him to guide your thinking, your mind, give you wisdom, and then go with it.

SPEAKER_03 25:17

And ideally, you've had that foundation in your life before this decision that you've been communicating with him.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

And you know, we we understand biblical, you know, wisdom is is you know having uh uh many advisors plan succeed. So I mean that's talking it over with people. It's not like you're just doing this alone. So in other words, principles that help you have that wisdom, but at some point just trust and make the decision.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

And I've always heard you know, an open an open door is not always the will of God, right? Right. That's right. Uh so uh and so I guess you can make a wrong decision, right? So I mean you can make a wrong decision, and that's not the moral decision. Right, right. But you can make a wrong decision, look back and say, man, I wish I'd have made that decision. Right. But then again, God can use that in your life as well. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

So to teach you. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Exactly. Great, great, great stuff. So uh okay, so why do bad things happen to good people? You know, you uh all the time you're counseling people that have lost children, right, that have lost loved ones, right? Uh good people pass away every day, right? Bad things happen to good people, crimes happen against good people, those sort of things. So, you know, just a just an easy softball question for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

So like a pass button, you know, you just move on. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

But I know that's you know, that's something when non-believers struggle with faith, is like, well, hey, I see all this bad stuff happening in the world. Why could a why would a good God allow that to happen? Right. So why why does that happen to people that are good?

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Well, I mean, uh I guess I answer in a few ways. I mean, that's you know a huge question, you know. It's kind of the a big philosophical, you know, kind of the big philosophical problem, you know, they say it's called the problem of evil and suffering, right? If if uh if God is all knowing and God is all good, then why does evil and suffering exist? You know, and since evil and and suffering exist, then either he's not really good or he's not really powerful, or he's not either, right? You know, and so that's kind of the thing. And so as a result, people say, well, then I reject God. Well, I I think we have to understand first God's purposes, right? You know, uh, and then we have to define words because your definite definition of bad may not be God's definition of bad. Your definition of good may not be God's definition of good. And we come with loaded terms. I I think at least you tell me if I'm wrong, but I think when people ask that question, uh they're meaning pain-free.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Comfort. Comfort, right? So bad would mean there's pain, good would mean no pain.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

I mean, I am I right?

SPEAKER_03 27:51

I mean, seeking comfort. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

So we're seeking a pain-free life. So in other words, so so why does pain come into people's lives? Is what to that, you know. Now, the question as it stands that people ask, why do bad things happen to good people? You know, the cold kind of theological, I say cold, but impersonal theological answer is, well, there's no good people, right? You know, there's so to say bad things happen to good people means those people deserve better. Now, again, go back to what we said about what you're saying is they deserve a pain-free life. Well, when has a pain-free life ever been good for anyone, right? You ever gone to the gym and had a pain-free workout? Is it the best for you, right? Have you gone to the dentist's office and had a cavity and had a pain-free visit and it worked out for you? No, I mean, there's a general principle in life, right, that difficulty is actually can serve a higher purpose, right, for good. But we go back, hey, let's let's go back theologically. It's not the way God designed it, right? So Garden of Eden, God created everything, it was good, perfect fellowship, harmony with God, and it it was good in that way, right? Genesis 3, sin enters the world, but because of sin, even even uh creation itself is is put in bondage to decay, brokenness, evil enter the world, and so we have suffering of all kinds because of that. And so why does cancer happen? I I I can't tell you why you got specific kind of cancer, but I can tell you because it goes back to the garden when Adam and Eve made a decision, right? What why do why do natural disasters happen? I I don't know the particulars of why this storm was a category four and not a two, but I can tell you that it you can trace it back to the garden, right? It goes back to to man's sin. Doesn't mean it's your sin, right, specifically, but it is because of sin and brokenness. And so even in that question, why do difficult things happen to people who maybe we would say are people of faith, you know. If we're defining good people that way, I I think we live in a broken, fallen world, right? And uh, you know, the the the good news is it started good and it's but it it ends in the same way, right? And God has a an arc of redemption. But but I think it's important, Jeff. This question to me, it let to your point, is maybe one of the top two or three questions that we all have to resolve, and I think even Christians in our mind, uh, because we need a framework to deal with the pain and difficulty in our life. We need a firm place to stand, right? So so some things happen, I think, because of sin. Again, it's not God directly in proportion to your sin punish you in a certain way, but but sin has is in this world, it has, and this world is in bondage to decay. And because of that, there's illness, there's sickness. But also we have we have free will. God gave you, God gave me, God's given everyone free will. And so I can make decisions that are detrimental to to my existence, to my health, to um those kind of things. And and so to to blame God for that would would to say, well, God, you take away my free will. Why he's not gonna do that. And you wouldn't want him to do that, you know. Um so I don't know that so so why do bad things happen to good people? So why do so let's just say it's a believer, somebody who who's following Christ and they've been faithful. Yeah, they're not perfect, but man, just a faithful believer for 40 years and and they just get a horrible form of cancer, you know. Stage four, you know, uh as as difficult as it can be. Um, I I think yes, I I think that that that happened, but because ultimately we live in a broken, fallen world. It's not anything that quote unquote they deserved, you know, but it's just a result of living in the fallen world. But we have to understand, right? Ecclesiastes three, go back to that. Okay, Ecclesiastes three, uh God's God has an appointed season for everything. May not like it, appointed season for everything, but if you follow that passage on down to the end of that passage, he said, God will call the past to account. Okay. So in other words, nothing that happens in the world, even if it's painful, uh, is haphazard. Okay. So God's gonna call everything that's happened in your past, the past history of the world, everything to account, another given account to make sense. He's going to use it for his purposes. And I think that's ultimately right good. Like the most unjust, the most uh horrible thing that's ever happened to a human being is the Son of God being crucified for something he never did, right? You know, uh and God used the the greatest evil ever committed upon a person for the greatest good of humanity. So uh so in the same way God can do the same for us. I know that that's broad strokes, but but I think people need to understand, I really believe this, Jeff, people understand why is this happening. We live uh a foothold you have to have is is place to stand is we live in a broken fallen world because sin has has wrought this in what we do, you know, and what we live in our our existence. Yeah, uh, but that doesn't mean God has forsaken us, right? He's gonna, he's gonna he can redeem everything, you know.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

So it makes us stronger through it. I mean, right? So we're going through the pain, or you're on the other side of that pain. That's right. God talked about it at the gym last night at CrossFit. It's like everybody wants to be strong, but nobody wants to be sore.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

That's right. That's true. Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

You know, you want to be strong, you want to get stronger, but you've got to have some soreness to happen before that that takes place. And time.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

And that's not to sorry, that's not to to minimize or to belittle people's pain. I I get it. I mean, I've, you know, you, me, we've had family members, we close friends, go through some very difficult things, and it's not to minimize the pain, but I just think it gives us at least some framework by which to see it and understand really kind of maybe the big picture of what goes on and trust God in it.

SPEAKER_03 33:44

Yeah. So well, and just to bring it down to the personal, you know, it just occurred to me as we're having this conversation is both of us are here at this table. Yeah. We lost our fathers at a young age. My dad died when he was 57, I was in my 20s. Yeah. Your dad died when you're in high school. That's right. Uh I wouldn't be sitting in this table if my dad hadn't passed away because that's where God got a hold of my life and turned my life around. You said that you wouldn't be probably sitting at this table. And so you look at that that we've gone through, right, you know, and God used that. Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Would I wish that on anyone? No. Exactly. Uh but at the same time, I know how, you know, go back, you know, Genesis chapter 50, you know, Joseph, you know, what God and what what the enemy intended for evil, God can turn and intends for good. Yes. And we see that played out time and time again. And you know and I know because of the experiences even we've gone through, that God is faithful and he'll do it. Absolutely. Confident of it.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

So um, so should we be Paul? So we be Paul or like, bring on the pain. I mean, like, yeah, that's Paul brought it to a new level. He's like, He's like, bring on the pain. Come on, come on. The more pain I have, the more I can identify with Christ. Right. Hey, to die is to gain, to live is to Christ. I mean, he's like, I mean, I wouldn't want to fight a guy like Paul, right? He has nothing to lose. Like he has nothing to lose. So should we be that extreme of, hey, bring on the pain so that I can grow. Um what what level is that?

SPEAKER_00 35:05

I know. Should is I don't know the question. I think it is a level. I don't think Paul was wrong in that, right? I mean, he had a he probably had a a desire uh to see the glory of God in his life, probably that we maybe we'll never have you mind. I don't know if I'll ever have that, but I don't think to his point, he saw the the greatest glory, the greatest goodness of God when he was suffering the most, you know. So so he had this understanding, hey, if I if if I obey the Lord and and incur suffering, it's it's only for my good. You know, I'm a delight in weaknesses, is what he says. I don't know if I'm there yet, Jeff, but I can I can, I guess, stomach weaknesses, right? I can bear through weaknesses knowing that God's power is made perfect, you know.

SPEAKER_03 35:47

So yeah. He was also single with no kid. Yeah, that's true. That's true. That may have changed your perspective a little bit, that's right. Okay. So I know you never get questions like this, but uh should Christians should they and can they? Okay. Uh let's just fill in the blanks, drink, dance, watch R-rated movies, just fill in the blank. I mean, we could go down the list of all the do's and don'ts of being a Christian. So let's just take some of these issues. So what do you think about all that stuff? You know, I mean, you got certain denominations that say, boy, you can't watch TV, you can't dress a certain way, you have to do this, or you can't do that, or can't do this, or uh you're hiding stuff from the pastor, or whatever whatever, whatever the case may be. But so how how would you just address those when people ask you those questions? How do you how do you address that?

SPEAKER_00 36:37

I just say no, you can't move on to the point. That's it. All right, next question, you know. Yeah, no, I mean I think it is. Those are those are, you know, I mean, I think for for people who really are are seeking the Lord and really wanting to understand, I think those are crucial questions, you know, even just to get a grasp on. I think the big picture there, right, at least as I understand the question and is as you know, people have talked to me really like, what does it mean to live a holy life? Okay. Now, if we start there, now if it's just I want to see how close to the line of you know what I feel like is worldly fun I can do, well, that that's a you're in a whole different realm there. Yeah. That that's a whole nother conversation. But if I have a a heart that's, you know, 1 Peter 1, 15 and 16, you know, uh just as he called you as holy, be holy in all you do, for it has said, you know, I'm holy, be holy. Yes. Right? God says, I'm holy. So in everything that you do, be holy. And well, that reframes the question, right? So that reframes not just, hey, how close can I get to a line that would make it wrong? But it's really how can I live a holy life? You know, I think of 1 Corinthians 10, 31, you know, uh, you know, whether you eat or drink, whatever you do, do it for the glory of God. So again, that's that's not hey, not God, what can I do and you'll be okay with it. You know, it's I want to do this for the glory of God. So how do my actions, how do they, how am I pursuing holiness, and then how am I bringing God glory through what is what's glory mean? Well, simple in this situation, I mean I'm bringing honor and fame. I'm bringing, you know, honor to God's name through what I do, which would be the opposite of bringing dishonor to us to his name. And so so as we think about certain, I think, choices, at least, at least from I think the question, you can correct me if I'm wrong, these would be issues that we would consider you know disputable matters, as Paul said. Would you would you say that? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 38:24

I mean, we're not talking about you know, maybe maybe some of the Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

We're not talking should I go out and get drunk and wasted. We're not talking about should I run around on my wife?

SPEAKER_03 38:32

Can I have a glass of wine today? Can I have a glass of wine? Can I go to the wrong thing?

SPEAKER_00 38:35

Can I watch a rate of our cigars, you know?

SPEAKER_03 38:37

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And the framing of that question, when somebody's probably asking that question, they're probably trying to the wine. Sure. Sure. And that's what I want to do. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

That's why I want to frame it with the holiness thing, right? I mean, because if you're not really wanting to pursue holiness, I'm not saying do what you want, but in the end, your heart's not in the right place.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

So that that's right. And God's not pleased with that.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

You know, I mean, the the the Christian ethic, you know, that God set that Jesus set forth, even just starting in the in the uh in the Sermon on the Mount is is a much higher ethic, right, than even just the Old Testament law. The Old Testament law was external. You know, the New Testament, the law of Christ that brings liberty is a is a is a heart thing, you know. So it begins in the heart. But but to answer your question, you know, I mean, without just going down, you know, item by item, you know, I think 1 Corinthians 6, 8, you know, um, was it 1 Corinthians 6, 8, and 12 kind of give us the the everything is permissible for me, but not everything is, and it'll say it's it's not beneficial for me. I won't be mastered by anything. Everything's beneficial, but I I won't bring hindrance into anybody's life, you know. And so there is, Paul does give us some checklist on, okay, in Christ, you're free from the law. Okay, so uh, like for example, in the law, you know, you couldn't wear clothes of mixed materials. You couldn't have, you know, in our terms, polyester and cotton. You know, that that would be against the law. Well, we're set free from that. So then I have to decide, is me wearing you know, polyester and cotton together, is that is that permissible? You know, does that offend anybody? Does that master me in any way? I mean, I know it's a s silly example, but you bring that into having a glass of wine. You bring that into watching a radar movie. Now, some of those may have different things, but so bring wine, beer, radar movie, or I mean PGE 13 movie, whatever, you know. Or TV these days. So any TV. Yeah. So you know, you know, well, first of all, you think, well, what is that doing to me, right? So first of all, I have to know is it is it controlling me or affecting me negatively in any way? You know, is it obviously with with substances, is that is that taking control? Because that's the point of Ephesians 5.18, don't get drunk with wine for it leads to dissipation, instead be filled with the spirit. Well, that's about control.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Yes, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:55

What's controlling you? And so I think you have to ask yourself that, you know, okay, yeah, uh one glass of wine with my steak, you know, but but is it really three? Is it really four? You know?

SPEAKER_01 41:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

And um, because at that point it's controlling you to me, even if it's quote unquote taking the edge off, right? You're looking beyond just just taste and enjoyment to s to doing something for you, you know, or in you, controlling you in some way.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

But I would say that with the with the movie, you know. Um you know, is there something in there that you're you're you're perceiving and looking after that's gonna negatively, I think, influence and change your heart, you know. I mean, you could you can watch a PGPG 13 movie that's filled with so much sexuality that really uh is not something I would consider holy to to watch. Yes, you know, that that I think is gonna negatively affect my walk. And in the end, you're like, oh, does it really hurt? I don't know if it really hurts in the sense of we're talking about that, but it's not helping me grow in Christ. It's not bringing me closer. So I think we just, you know, to just give you like you can watch this but not that, or you can drink this and not that. I don't think that's what Paul did. I mean, Paul could have easily said, Yeah, don't do this, don't do that, but he didn't because I think there is there is a freedom in our conscience in Christ, but but if we're really living for the Lord and pursuing holiness, I think we then bring some boundaries and restraints to that freedom. Yeah, right. Yeah. And so Paul in the end said, Hey, if and his issue was eating meat sacrificed to idols, he said, if if if I don't, if I never eat meat sacrificed to idols again, he's like, which I have a right to. But if I knew what in other words, what does it matter? Yes. It doesn't matter. So so for me, if if I never watch you know this type of movie or I or drink, I never in the end, what does it matter? What what does it matter if if that's conviction, if I'm in the place that that's what I'm saying? Because your heart can still be in the wrong place, even if you're not doing those things.

SPEAKER_03 42:47

Because it's gonna be something, it's gonna be gluttony, overeating, it's gonna be something. Whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Yes, right. Name the name the issue, the way you dress.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

I mean, I love that, but I love that. Is it beneficial, you know? And I go back to just a simplistic simple way to look at it, our friend Warren Morris. Yeah, you know, I just remember he told me this years ago. He's like, Jeff, whatever we do, it's either gonna draw us closer to God or it's gonna pull us further away. Right. And just I think that's the beneficial part is yeah, that's a good way to evaluate, okay, is this really helping me and my relationship with God or other people, or is it hindering that relationship?

SPEAKER_00 43:16

And and I do think I don't I I don't want to be someone who's guilty of stigmatizing things that that the Lord has declared good. I mean, that's that's first Timothy, what is it for? You know, that it's for our enjoyment. So to to say something's just bad that He's created for our enjoyment, let's not do that either.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

Yes, right?

SPEAKER_00 43:35

You know, so yes, I I can I can be gluttonous and that involves ice cream, but I can also enjoy ice cream without being gluttonous, right? So let's not demonize ice cream. You know, let's definitely don't. But do you know what I'm saying? I mean, and so um so be careful not to, because again, it's about the posture of the heart. Um, and so, you know, and and I think it's being honest before the Lord. And here's an Another thing, Jeff, I think you would resonate with. I think these kind of questions also uh take on a different meaning when when you're actively trying to disciple a your family, disciple on somebody else, because then you you gotta really take stock of what you do because what you do is influencing other people. And if it's just you alone in a room, well then it's just you, your conscience and God. Yes, you know? Yes. And uh, you know, and and that's one one element of it. But when it involves discipleship of other people, well, there's a whole nother ballgame you have to have to consider, you know, and and think how is what I'm doing influencing them? And you may say, well, they you know, you should be able to just do whatever you want. Well, that's that's not the Christian ethic. That's that's not what God's called us to do. We have to consider what other people think. I mean, that's that's much of of 1 Corinthians, that's Romans 14, he he's calling us to consider what other other people perceive and feel about things, and and we need to act accordingly.

SPEAKER_03 44:54

Yes, you know and as men, we need to be watchful. I mean, we need to be watchful for those that God's put under our care. That's right. To be watchful and not to let the enemy get a foothold in our family and bust through that door.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

And we may feel like, hey, on my own I have the freedom to do this, but because of my family or whatever, I'm not.

SPEAKER_03 45:10

Yes, you know, and I think the history too. I mean, if if you know, if I've grown up in an alcoholic family and I have a propensity towards alcoholism, that may not be beneficial. That's it may not be okay for me to do that. That's true. So it's been whether it's beneficial or not. But and I think when people are framing the question, I think they're also trying to corner Christians sometimes to corner them into saying, see, you can't do anything fun, right? You know, because you can't do this, this, this, and this. Right. So I think that's all in the framing of the culture. Sure, sure. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

And I think these kind of things are so uh are better even understood in context conversation and you know discussion than just putting out a blanket kind of rubric or whatever you want to call it. Right.

SPEAKER_03 45:57

No, no. Okay. Well now for an easy one. I mean, I'm just kind of the easy shots right now, the book of Revelation. So so uh yeah, a lot of people have questions about the book of Revelation. You know, just a lot of people reading the tea leaves these days, and I guess they always have, or okay, this is uh these are the world events that are happening, and boys lining up, so Jesus is coming soon, and there's certain people that are saying it's it's upon us. And so, so kind of what are Todd Strain, what do you gather from the Bible with regards to the book of Revelation? It's not an easy book to understand by any means. And so so I guess two-part question is you know, what do you think about the the reading of the tea leaves when you look at Revelations? But then also just the big picture of the book of Revelations. What yeah, what sh what should someone know about the book of Revelations? And should they just avoid it and say, hey, let's just not even talk about that, or should they dig into themselves? So what are your what are your thoughts on that? Easy, easy softball question.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

I mean, I would say, you know, I think with the book of Revelation, so one of the questions you asked, yes, I mean, I think a Christian, it is part of the 66 books that we believe are divinely inspired. So I mean, yeah, I mean, we need to study it and and try to to find understanding in it. And um, but but to try to match every symbolism in detail with everything current events, I don't I'm not sure is wise, right? You know, or or try to. I mean, obviously Jesus said, you know, Christians know that Jesus said that, you know, uh only the Father knows that the hour. He doesn't even know, right? But like Jesus himself doesn't know when when the his return will be and when judgment day will be. Only the Father. So for us to think that we're gonna somehow divine, you know, that this and this is happening, so therefore, you know, the ends, I mean, you know, I mean, God, I think I think Jesus does say, hey, there are some signs that that point you in that direction, so I'm not saying that, you know, but at the same time, the exact and precise. I and I do think I'm with you. I I've got to imagine, you know, uh there there have been moments throughout history, right, that people thought, well, this is it, you know, this is going wrong, this is, you know, and all this, and you know, and and here we are at 2026. Not to say that the Lord, that day is not coming, it is. Um, but I don't think that's the point of Revelation. I I don't think that's the point. I'm not saying it at all, but I just don't think that's the point. The context of Revelation, anytime we're reading the scripture, book of the Bible, context, context, context. What was the context? You know, Apostle John wrote this, we believe somewhere around 95 A.D., so still first century. Uh he's on the Isle of Patmos. And why is he there? Because he's a Christian. I mean, because he was an apostle. He's he's on exile. Um Emperor Domitian has started to um persecute Christians. You know, the Christians weren't always persecuted, uh, but but slowly toward the end of the first century, persecution started happening. So he is being persecuted for his faith. Uh in a in a in I'm talking persecution in a broad scale way by the Roman Empire. And uh so he's there. Uh Christians are being persecuted. Because they're being persecuted, of course, the temptation is is to shrink back from their faith, give up, you know. See that think that, well, I guess evil is one, you know, that this whole thing isn't real. What what God said, you know, what the apostles have taught about the gospel, none of this is gonna happen. And so so I think Jesus comes to him, he has this vision, right? He writes to at that point seven churches that were in Asia Minor, you know, so that was the context. I mean, these are real churches with real issues, and he talks about these real issues, and then it's gonna be that more apocalyptic kind of kind of imagery and and and um kind of uh a word, a revelation, but I think what you see there are some repetition of themes, okay. So maybe I I personally don't think it's all purely chronological, okay, like especially, you know, Revelation 4 through the end, right? I don't think it's necessarily chronologically spelt out. Not that we can't find chronology in there. I just don't think, but what we see is I think a repetition of themes. Okay, so what are big themes we see there? Well, God's wrath. So some people are gonna say, you can read, you know, very credible people that are gonna say, well, the bowls of wrath and the trumpets, it's kind of one and the same. Some people are gonna you know delineate, you know, and and you can understand both. Uh, but but God's wrath and judgment is a big theme. Uh worship around the throne, that's a big theme in in Revelation. Huge, right? So you got judgment, you got worship, uh, and then you you have this uh this spiritual warfare kind of kind of theme going on, that there's something beyond what we can see happening, and there's a war that that has has been raging because we get some some moments of that even from you know the the beginning, and then then you see the end, and then obviously the another theme then would be you know the the the restoration of all things, you know. Eden in the beginning ends with Eden in the end, you know, something grander and bigger. But um so I I think we take away my point is I think we sometimes do better to look at the themes, right? Context, persecution, how to stay faithful. John's like, stay faithful. Why? Because God's gonna judge evil. Maybe right now it doesn't look like that. I mean, that's in in in Peter's letters, that's in Paul's letters, like remain, God will get his vengeance. God's gonna, it may not look like it right now, but God is going to judge the world. He's gonna judge evil, okay? Uh second of all in that is there's this unseen battle that's going on, right? And we participate in that battle, right? Um and and then the other one is that stay true to worship. That was a big temptation, right? Domitian wanted wanted worship, you know. So, hey, understand what true worship is. It's happening around a throne, and then God's on that throne. That's who we worship, that this grand vision of worship before God. And obviously, the the ultimate victory, restoration run thing like this is gonna happen. And so it paints a picture of hope. So for us, you know, it it paints a picture of hope for us that we're going through uh resistance in this world, we're gonna have opposition from spiritual forces, but we we think about the worship of God, staying true to God, what what what worship looks like for us, not only in a momentary but on a daily basis, we think and understand spiritual warfare is going on, but God ultimately is gonna judge and gonna win. I mean, that's that's kind of the end of it. He wins an end. Right. And and so we can get, you know, you we can get in the weeds a little bit about the the the millennia. We can start talking about the tribulation and the rapture, and and and those are valid conversations, and people, again, very uh valid uh people have different differing opinions on those. And so, you know, it's okay to have that, but at the same time, I still think just the the big picture we have to see is is John wrote this to Christians uh who are being persecuted for their faith, right? Being tempted to walk away because of the the the opposition they're receiving. And he's trying to remind them like God's in this, he's gonna judge evil, he's gonna win in the end, and there's restoration, right? Right. This culminates in the New Jerusalem, right? So I think that's the word for us, you know, not to oversimplify what's oh I love that.

SPEAKER_03 52:56

That's the best summary of revelations I've ever heard in my life. So that's hopefully guys latch onto that and play rewind and play that a couple times. But just because when we talk about the book, it's just a very controversial book because of all the different themes, like you say, and the different prophecies and things of that sort. And sure, I think we can get down the weeds so much that we don't see the big picture like you just described. So that's that's amazing. Amazing. And uh and so did churches back away from preaching revelations? I mean, do uh in church, you know, yeah overall, do they do they back away from that for those reasons? Have you seen over the years?

SPEAKER_00 53:32

I think probably. I mean, I I would probably even say I'm probably a little hesitant to probably to to to preach or teach on it, not that I won't eventually, but because there's so many different ideas about what happens, but I think if we we focus in like what what are like the main themes here? You know, what what's really going? Let's let's not get get totally lost on well, if you don't believe it's you know pre-trib, you know, I'm millennial, whatever, yeah, then you know that you know we can have our thoughts on that, but at the same time, I think we need to understand really the big themes of what God is really saying to us.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

So um okay, so another another easy question for you to finish out this part. Uh but so how how involved should the church not necessarily talking about Calvary, but in the context we are at Calvary. Sure. Uh, but how involved should the church get involved in local current affairs? You know, and there's some churches that, well, every week they're getting up there and they're talking about the latest thing that's just happened and how we're gonna approach this as a church and what we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

Right.

SPEAKER_03 54:37

And so just, I mean, I know Calvary's approach over the years has been to continue to preach the word of God, and obviously when needed, to step up and talk about the current events of the day. But but how involved should churches be in the political scene, current events? Sure. Where's the right balance there?

SPEAKER_00 54:54

Yeah, I I don't know if I can give you the right answer, you know, because there's so many different hence the issue. I mean, I do think so, first of all, yeah, we can address, you know, even uh we're talking about like Calvary Baptist Church, you know, has has always kind of just to me just maintained kind of a straight line on this and not not veered off one way or the other too much. Again, probably uh uh probably addressing really just the major, major, major things and and not not being swayed by by every little nuance, right? And and this is what I even my own personal understanding and and what I kind of abide by, I I I've told people this in in recent months. Like, I personally am not gonna chase headlines. That that's not what I'm called to do. Because first of all, in our generation, there's a headline every 24 hours, right? New news cycle. 24 minutes nowadays. Right, right. It's just something different. And then and then I think we need to resist always having a hot take on something. Why why do why do we need to have a hot take on everything? There's enough people who got hot takes on things, right? So so I personally I think so when we say church, now I think let me just reframe it. You know, if you if it's different than what you're thinking, then tell me. When people ask me that, I think they're saying, why don't we dress in a worship service? Okay. Yeah, that's what we're saying. So that's really what we're asking.

SPEAKER_03 56:09

That's definitely.

SPEAKER_00 56:10

Not just the church, because I have plenty of conversations with people. From the platform. Why don't we do it from the platform? 52 Sundays a year, okay? We have 52 Sundays a year that we gather for worship. I don't think current events should should hold the the place of uh of of you know priority there in 52 weeks. That the the the gathering of God's people is to worship God, right? To set our minds on things above, okay, at the same time to come and and open the word of God and let it speak to our hearts. Now, having said that, I don't think we neglect necessarily like the real things that are happening, you know, in our lives, you know, but I don't think those things should have a place of priority. That that's my conviction and my opinion on that, you know, and some some would would criticize that. Uh but I would say, you know, on some of that, like, okay, if we do address certain things, well, how much do you say? Okay, well, what things do you say? You know, what and so you're just chasing headlines at that point. Yes, you know, and you're with a church our size, you know, I I don't know the political division in our church exactly, you know. Uh, but there's gonna be some on on both sides of issues. Yes. And um, and so to to try to to speak into that from in in in a few brief moments without any chance for discussion or nuance to me is a little fruitless to me, honestly, because you never can say all that you feel like you need to say. And I I've I've had long conversations with people. People have sent me emails and I've said, hey, I'd love to talk to you about this at length, you know, about it. Because I do, then you can talk nuance. I think that's a that's a that's uh to me the problem of hot takes to begin with. You just want to throw something out there, you know, really for your own glory and thoughts, not to really have conversation and figure things out. But all that to say, Jeff, is there are issues that need to be addressed. And here's what I hope that over when we're talking about the worship service, that over 52 weeks as we sing theologically rich songs, which I think we do, like Jeremy does an excellent job of of picking songs that teach theology. Um, and and at the same time when when we preach messages, that we're giving everyone a framework by which to see the world, right? Yes. So maybe it's not hitting, you know, a certain or it's not scratching a certain itch at the moment, but but you're getting a theological framework by which to view the world. So when issues do come about, you know how to how to process them and understand them.

SPEAKER_03 58:33

So I love that. I love that, Todd. And and you're the third your third pastor I've sat under at Calvary. Yeah. And uh it's been that pretty much the same throughout. Right. That uh we don't ignore the current issues of the day, but we're not gonna preach that from the platform.

SPEAKER_00 58:48

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 58:48

And I know because you could be sucked into every topic that comes along down the pipe.

SPEAKER_00 58:53

Right. Right. Because everybody's gonna have their own issues that they want addressed or not. And with the proliferation of social media, and I mean there's a how many topics are there? A lot. There's a lot. So exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 59:06

And there's a lot of good things out there that could be talked about place in the context of an individual conversation. Right, even small groups.

SPEAKER_00 59:13

I know life groups and small groups talk about it. That's a great place to hash that out.

SPEAKER_03 59:17

You know, uh, and think about how many visitors we have coming on a weekly basis that they're there for the first time. They don't know the context of how we're talking about all this.

SPEAKER_00 59:25

And there's been situations in in recent months where I've had an equally number of people say, Hey, I thought you, you know, either by not not purposefully doing this, and then some by why didn't you? I mean, it's equal. So I know I've I kind of read, I know our congregation here, you know. And so you can't please all people, right? You can't.

SPEAKER_03 59:43

You know, there's no way. So man. Well, well, you got Paths hard questions, so thank you, Todd. And so just to close us up here, we always have kind of a lightning round. And so I'll just go through a few of these real quickly just to let people get to know you and know your heart. But uh so who are three people, living or dead, that you would love to have dinner with tonight? Tonight you go get to go have dinner with them. Who are those three people today?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

When I've been asked this, I've always said, like, are those three people off the same table? Yes or same table. Same table. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:15

Same table. You're having a conversation back and forth. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

I think I I definitely want to, you know, I don't want to be super spiritual, but definitely I would Peter would be one. You know, it's just interesting life. I mean, I just want to hear from Peter. He kind of, right? Yeah, yeah, we got plenty to say. I don't have to talk, you know. So nah, he's one. Um another one I I I just somebody I thought of as like C.S. Lewis. He could, he was somebody who was a skeptic, came to faith a little closer to our time, you know, but but just the way he writes and thinks, I think would be just just to hear him talk. You know, and then I'd hear Peter go, huh, you know, or whatever. I don't know. And then my other one I thought personally, I never knew my grandfather or my mom's dad. His name was Jack, and I always hear about just how incredibly funny and just full of life he was. And I always think like, wonder what it would have been like to know him. So he was just somebody like if I'm thinking personally, yeah. It'd be cool to have him there on how you get along with Peter and C.S. Lewis. But apparently he could uh bring life to the party.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:14

Well he may be with him right now, right? Oh, but he is, yeah, from what I understand, you know, what I know about him. For sure. Okay, so our pastor, what is your favorite outside of Jeremy's worship music that he puts together? Outside of that, what's your favorite genre of music outside of the phone?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:32

It's probably probably country, you know. I mean, I'd have to say. I like all genres, I really do, but probably country. Probably country leaning in southern rock kind of that kind of oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:45

So the classic country, not that not this new stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:47

It's kind of like some of it, but I I'm I'm big into also singer-songwriters. Like if if you're a singer-songwriter, man, I'd I eat that up. You know, uh, but it it can tend to be with a little steel guitar, like you know, like we had a few weeks ago.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:01

That was awesome. Yeah, that was great. That was great. Uh okay, what's your biggest fear? What's Trans biggest fear?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

Well, on a very surface level, my biggest fear is heights. I don't like heights. Like, you know, like it's just we've been to Nepal together. We've hiked up in mountains together. Yeah, but I feel a little more secure. It doesn't mean like I like looking off, I look up, you know. Like I don't like too much getting on ladders all the time, you know. I don't know. It's kind of silly, but but internally, I mean I'd probably say, you know, if I'd be honest, probably my greatest fear is probably just what other people think, you know. I mean, I'd deal with that. I mean, like anybody, or like others, some others, you know. Constantly battle that. Yeah. What other people are gonna think. And may not be the best mix for a pastor, because I deal with a lot of people, but but it's an internal struggle I do deal with.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:47

We all deal with it in some way, absolutely. Definitely. Absolutely. Um, so just in closing, you know, Todd, um just I guess two-part question. Uh, what are some boundaries you've put up in your life uh to stay strong and finish strong? Because this is finish strong. This is not just about starting the race, this is a marathon, and we've both run marathons, and so it's it's starting the race, but we have to pace ourselves and we have to stay strong. So, what are some boundaries you've put in your life to finish strong? Yeah. And what would you say to the guy out there today that maybe he's just not in a good place? You know, he's not in a good place, he's uh he's kind of on the sidelines, he needs to get back in the race, and he needs to even get back in the race to finish strong. So those two parts.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

Well, I'd say even just thinking personally, what what are the boundaries of the practices or habits, you know? Again, go back to I I think a personal time of the Lord is crucial. And um, you know, I I think that's just essential. Essential, essential, essential. Like uh I I'm I'm not someone who's gonna like hold you to the fire of like something daily, daily, daily. And if you have six out of seven days, then you're a failure, you know. But a consistent regular time where you're going before the presence of the Lord, hearing what he has to say, bringing your needs for him. I I think I I can't quote the psalm, but you know, when one of the psalms says, All my fountains are in you, you know. So in other words, are all your fountains you're trying to drink right from a fountain of peace, fountain of of strength, a fountain of wisdom, fountain whatever. Like, is that the cry of your heart that all my fountains are in you, God? And so that means I gotta go to you to find these things. Like without it, I had at Jeremiah 2.13, you know, I just have a broken and busted cistern. That's all I've dug for myself. But my true fountain's in you. And so that's where I believe that I don't just say that because I'm a pastor. I mean, I really say that because that's been my experience. I mean, that's that's a conviction of mine that that solitude, being with the Lord and studying his word. I I think if you put yourself in that place, I'm not saying things can't go wrong because they can and you can get off track, but I think if you're regularly going for the presence of the Lord, he's gonna point out things in your life. Yes, you're you're gonna you're gonna hear from him, you're gonna understand. Um, constantly, you know, and and again, that's not just go there, read, close the Bible, walk away. But if you're really spending time lingering in his presence, I mean that's that's a initial, initial kind of thing. And I think community is another one. So, you know, things we've talked about through the years, but I think community you can think macro and micro level. I think there's there's even a level of of community just showing up for church and a Bible study that that's huge. Yes, right, because we we've seen it, we know that when you start wandering away from the Lord is you start isolating from other believers, it goes hand in hand.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:36

Yes, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:37

So a way to combat that is to be around other believers. Just I think the initial thing is just show up sometimes. Again, can a guy still get off track by coming to even though he's coming to church? Well, sure. But I think that's a first step. So then I think even just coming to church, doing what you know to do, uh, but I think then get involved in that, like I said, the micro level, you know, in a small smoke or you. Is crucial. Having guys that like really know you, you know, and that at least they're there for you to be able to open up to and and to understand what's going on in your life and to be praying for you. Definitely. Uh so I think that's if you want to finish strong, that's what it's gonna take. I mean, you have to have that time before the Lord. And you know, I I I'm I don't want to sound too much like a company man, but our our I believe firmly in our discipleship pathway. You lead yourself, that means that's leading yourself to grow spiritually, that's having that personal time of the Lord. If you're being led by other people, I mean you're allowing other people to to, whether that's a D group or you're in a small band of brothers group, or maybe it's just three guys you know in a prayer group, uh, that's crucial. And then leading others, pouring yourself out. You know, I think that's that's how you finish strong. I mean, I think uh, and Lord willing, that's what what I want to do, you know, keep whatever context. So if Lord moves me out of the pastor to something else, I don't know. I'm I still want to have my time with the Lord, I'm gonna still have people pouring in my life, and I still want to do some kind of ministry for him, you know, that he's called me to do. So that's what I would encourage guys to do. So definitely.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:06

And that's why you're my pastor. That's why you're my pastor. Your your heart for discipleship, your heart for for men and for women in our church and our community, for missions around the world. I mean, it's just incredible. And so, you know, and I tell guys this all the time that uh, you know, whether they go to Calvary or they're in another state and another community, like your pastor needs to know that he can count on you. Right. When your pastor asks you something, the answer is yes. Yeah. Like he needs to know, man, that you're praying for his pastor. They're your pastor every day. And so that's just what hopefully we have a group of guys here that are doing for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:44

And well I appreciate you. I know Jeff, you you've always been huge encouragement to me. You know, I it it I think most pastors would would would if they were to admit, they just feel wholly inadequate in what they're doing. You know, I mean, like this is beyond anything. I can there there are certain positions I've been with other staff members uh, you know, in certain places, and I just look at them and they go, you talk about make you feel inadequate. I mean, you just don't what do you say to someone? How do you counsel someone? What do you you know, and so there are times you just like thrust in situations like this is beyond me. But yet it's what guys called me to. And so I have to to take the next step and do. And so I'm just saying for people like you and others that encourage and that send me text that are praying for me, that means means the world. Like you you really don't know how much that means. So I I really do appreciate it. And uh and I you know, I I I admire guys like you and other men, you know, in our our church that that are pouring into me, you know, and that that help me do what God's called me to do uh as the shepherd of the church, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:46

So well, I'm here I'm here for you through my dying breath. Gotcha, too. Appreciate that, too. Hopefully that's many years from now. Yeah, right. But uh, but man, I just uh thank you for being my pastor, but more importantly, thanks for being my friend, and thanks for being here today. Yeah, thank you, man.

unknown 1:09:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:03

In 2 Timothy 4 7, the apostle Paul is in prison facing his impending death, and he says these words is a final reflection on his life and ministry. I've fought the good fight, I've finished the race, and I've remained faithful. So, needless to say, Paul's life didn't start out strong. Persecuting and killing Christians isn't exactly the blueprint that God has for a man's life. But God had other plans. He said, I want that man. So Paul switched jerseys and made it his life's mission to spread the gospel, no matter the circumstances. He made that decision that he would never give up, he would never back down, and he made the decision that he was going to finish strong. So, as you just heard from Todd, life's not easy. But if you're a follower of Jesus, God has said the same thing about you. I want that man. So, how will you respond to that? Uh well, the purpose of this podcast is not to give you another to-do list or to heap guilt or shame on you from how you started or where you've been. The purpose of this podcast is to inspire you to action by hearing how godly men like Todd don't just make lofty goals, they make commitments. Because I believe that commitments are greater than goals. Finish strong is a daily decision that requires a daily commitment. It's not how you start, it's how you finish.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:25

Thank you for listening to today's episode. If you want to encourage other men, share this podcast and leave us a review. Finish Strong.