From Power Struggles to Play: Making Parenting Less Scary with Jillian Maeve

Parenting can feel overwhelming, isolating, and sometimes… terrifying.

But what if it didn’t have to be?

In this episode of Make It Less Scary, I sit down with my dear friend Jillian Maeve artist, parent coach, former Montessori educator of over 20 years, and creator of The Playbook, a coaching container that helps parents connect with their children through play rather than control.

Jillian has spent decades working with young children and families, and what she discovered is something both simple and revolutionary:

Play is the most powerful parenting tool we have.

In this conversation, we explore how shifting your energy, your environment, and your approach can completely transform the dynamics inside your home.

You’ll hear:

• Why traditional discipline often leads to power struggles

• How play activates the brain and helps children regulate themselves

• Why connection works better than correction

• How parents can shift from control to collaboration

• The surprising power of sensory play (yes… including the famous “spaghetti method”)

But this episode is also personal.

Jillian is a former client I coached as she stepped away from a 20-year career in education to build something entirely new around her gifts.

Watching her step into her own path has been one of the most beautiful full-circle moments in my work.

Today, she helps parents create homes where children feel respected, empowered, and safe to grow.

And if you’re listening to this and thinking:

“I want parenting to feel more joyful… less stressful… and more connected.”

Jillian has created a beautiful container for parents called The Playbook, where she teaches these tools in depth.

You can learn more about it here: https://www.jillianmaeve.com/

And if something inside this conversation stirred a deeper question in you  about fear, courage, growth, and the moments in life where we know we are ready for something more  I created a workshop for exactly that moment.

It’s called:

Why Not You. Why Not Now.

A space where we explore the stories that keep us small and begin practicing the courage to show up differently.

You can join the workshop here:

https://stan.store/Makeitlessscary/p/expansion-lab-laugh-play--rewire-your-brain

Because sometimes all it takes is the right room…

and the right moment…

to realize:

why not you. why not now.

https://www.instagram.com/lessscarywithmaria?igsh=MWNsYnNnaWh6dDFoNQ%3D%3D&utm_source=qr

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Welcome to Make It Less Scary. I'm Maria Jose Oliver, your host. If you're building a new chapter, a business, a relationship, a new life, and fear is feeling much louder than your plan, you're not alone. Most people think fear is where we stop. But here at Make It Less Scary, we treat fear differently. In this space, we make fear usable. We turn it into data, into structure and movement, so you can lead yourself through the change with truth and courage and momentum. Because growth doesn't just require desire, it also requires your leadership. I'm so glad you're here. Let's get into today's episode. Welcome to Make It Less Scary. Oh my god, before you dive deep into the episode, I just wanted to tell you that I had visited my friends upstate New York, and I was saying I didn't Airbnb where we were recording the episode, but we were so excited about what we were talking about that we were being so loud. So we had to cut the the episode short, although we were almost done. Um the reason I'm letting you know is so that when you're listening and you hear us completely drop off, it's because we had to cut it off because we were being so rowdy and loud. Oh my goodness. I know if you are a parent, you are gonna absolutely love this episode. Um, where I get to talk to my friend Julia Maeve, who is an absolutely amazing parent coach. She has the most amazing methods, something she has internalized in her own mothering, and we got to bring it all out for this episode. So grab your coffee, grab your tea, and enjoy. Oh my god, I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm gonna dance. Yeah, I'm gonna dance because uh today I am in Catskill uh with my friend Jillian May. What's up? What's up? She's my special guest today, and you cannot see me, but I am doing the silliest things as I am preparing for this episode. Why? Because Jillian brings playfulness, that's her signature energetics among many, and what we're gonna talk about today is about making parenting less scary. That's right, that's gonna be one of the big drops and points, and everybody is gonna be able to relate to this. And I'm feeling so excited that I'm getting real hot. So I'm gonna take one thing or before okay, before we go even further, I know this girl, but you don't fully. So I'm gonna make the best introduction that I can so that you have a sense for who she is. Okay, so her name is Jillian Mae Schneider. She's an artist, parent coach, and educator with over 20 years in the classroom. Jillian believes that play is the most powerful parenting tool we have, and that when mothers get to resource themselves first, the whole family can rise. She's the creator of the playbook, a coaching container for parents who want to connect rather than correct. And she's building a stunning body of artistic work called The Feels of Infinite Belonging. I actually have the first painting from that collection hanging at my home, and I can tell you it stops you in your tracks. Jillian, welcome to make it look good.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

What a pleasure, girl. How are you feeling? I am feeling alive and energized. I am feeling so blessed to be here with you this morning. We just got to eat breakfast together. Yes, that's just so sweet. We were hanging last night. We rolled deep.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

We had such a great time.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

We had a really good time.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Listen, one of the great one of the great things that came out yesterday, this some people don't know, but here's how I met Jill. I'm gonna tell them about it. Yeah, please. When I moved to Catskill with my ex-partner and my son, yeah, and we were looking for schools, like a Montessori school. Um, I remember that there was a book club. Do you remember the book club? Yes, and then I saw you and you and your husband. It was on Zoom, it was on Zoom, it was post-COVID, it was on Zoom, and I was so energized by you being there and curious. I was curious. At the time I was a little bit more on I don't want to have friends, I don't want anybody hugging me, sure, but I was intrigued by it, and I remember watching you do your magical thing with kids, and then meeting you in my home and thinking, ooh, this person has a special gift. I had never in my life, and I know a lot of people can relate to this, have seen someone parent in a way that didn't include shaming, correcting, screaming, threatening. Like these are the tools that we usually inherit. Sure. And then I saw you super joyful, super calm, and happy and delighted, and in your flow, controlling rooms of adults and children through play, and I was like, I want some of that.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

So tell me a little bit about tell me a little about this journey.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

How did we how do we arrive to this wonderful human coach, painter, yeah, rogue band founder?

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Oh, that's right, that's right. Um, I love joyful facilitation, I love disarming people and helping people come to a space with total presence and laughter and ease. Um, I get really lit up seeing people expressing themselves authentically, and that goes from the youngest people to the oldest people in the room. My my biggest goal is to help people feel at ease in my presence and resource when I'm near.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

So, um, and you know, I studied Montessori education, I have a master's in early childhood, I have been in the classroom for over 20 years, and I have seen what really works to shift the energetics in the room, and that comes from you.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Tell me how many children was your classroom. And I the reason why I want to mention this is because if you and your age group is three to six.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

One three to six kid is enough.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

That's right. Tell me how many. Two is like two thousand, but I was leading a class just recently of 33-year-olds, four-year-olds, five-year-olds, and a few six-year-olds.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna just take, I'm gonna take a pause right here so people understand the magnitude of leadership that is required to do that. For every parent that has only one kid, that's right, like me.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

And I feel that's a big ask already.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

To confront a child going through their tantrums, which is developmentally appropriate. Yes, but to have to bring myself in the highest self so that I can support this little human. I have been in your classrooms, dude. Yeah, I have been in some in Jillian's classrooms, and you enter all the 30 children, they're all working. And whoever is dysregulated, they have an outlet, an opportunity, a design because you're also a design space person.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

When I walk into your home, I always feel this. There's a place for everything, and everything has a place.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

And you have reflected that back to me, and I feel so seen. The Virgo in you is so is so appreciated by the Taurus and me. That's like, she knows me, she sees me. I worked hard for that. I why do I say this?

SPEAKER_02 8:48

I just want to amplify the scale at which you can do things, you know, to handle three to six energy is no different than you standing in the boardroom of the highest financial institution in the world. Same energetics. Yeah, so that's the kind of power you individually have cultivated through your own practice, and it show it shows in your home. I know that Samantha and I, when we are with you with our kids, we we relaxed immediately.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

We're like, we're dropping our back. I love, I love for parents, I love for moms and dads and papas and mamas to come into our home and to feel like, oh, our kids are gonna be just fine. I don't have to monitor them, I don't have to police them in this space because it's set up for them. Yes. And also when we trust our children to handle things on their own, they actually do. Mic job. They can actually solve it. And if they need help, they'll come to us. I'm noticing that in our generation, we have to be so on guard and so on point so much of the time. That's how it feels, right? Raising kids in today's world. There are so many dangers, there are so many pressures, and we have moved away as a society from this village mindset of everybody's outside their home, everybody's playing together in their neighborhoods. Like a lot of us are feeling robbed of that. We might have had that growing up, or certainly our parents and grandparents had that, and so we know there's a residual desire for that, and yet very few of us are actually living that reality. And so I look at my children and I look at my home and I look at I look at the spaces that we inhabit in our day-to-day lives, and I think, how can I how can I create more expansion here for my children to feel like they are empowered and safe and free to rise and be creative and express the way that they want to.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

So that that's always a goal, and I love I love it when my children go outside and play. Yeah, and I can't see them. Yeah, from the window. I love it, because I get to practice letting go and trusting them to navigate, to climb these trees, and maybe they might fall.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Yeah, you know, Jillian, in proximity to you, I have learned to think of my child, and this is the this is a radical shift. I see my son as a full human being. Yeah, not as something that needs to be talked to, trained to, yes, molded into. You have made me see my son as a full human being, deserving of the same level of trust and dignity that we all expect. Calibrated at their three to six-year-old levels.

unknown 12:01

Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

I love that. Thank you. And I feel like a lot of that comes from my background as a Montessorian, and big ups to Maria Montessori, Dr. Maria Montessori, who was revolutionary over a hundred years ago, who saw that children deserve dignity, and children deserved to practice things on their own, and they desperately want to join us in our work and in our play, and they want to be masters of their little environments. And if we treat them as such, they rise to that occasion. It's just like what we were talking about last night. Speak to a king, and a king will appear. It is just like that. So we when we speak to our children and we hold their highest vibration in mind, when we hold them to their highest selves, yeah, they rise to meet us there.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

And they feel so understood and so seen.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

It's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Can I just tell you something that I feel will rest I I think it will resonate with people, and we'll get we're gonna get into the Jews, by the way. Of course. We're gonna play. We are all everyone listening to this episode, everybody is gonna play. We're gonna play. We're gonna play. And here's the thing, here's the thing that I I wanted to say, which is I'm a single mom, and I want to be a good mom. Everyone wants to be good at what they do, and I have read Positive Discipline, I did the book, I put my son in a Montessori school, and so and still, Gillian, even if I read and listen to all of these things, I didn't have a model in close proximity to show me how it works. Had it not been for me having access to you, I would have never found the practical way to integrate all of this learning because you can go read all of the books, but I can tell you it'll take you ten times longer to internalize a method that works for you than it is to take your workshop. Yes, you did two free workshops, and I have been your friend for how long now?

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Six years.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

Okay, in six years, you could have thought that I have picked up everything that you've taught me. No, I signed up twice. Not because you're my friend, dude. I signed up because you're really good at what you do. Oh my god. And every single time I was in that workshop, I was so fired up texting my co-parents, dude, yeah, you gotta join this class. Our stone will love it. Yeah, our stone will love it, and so what I tell people, what if you're gonna walk away with something from this podcast episode? I want it to be this. All of the self-help that you're doing continue. But if you want to collapse the time it takes you from thinking about how you want to do better to actually doing it, yes, go to Jill's page and and join the playbook. I myself joined it. Why? Because I want to do well by my son, I want to love him properly, I want to show him respect properly, you know, so that he feels independent and trust. And I know that on my own is gonna take me longer. And you know me, I'm 43.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

My days when I was 30 and 20, where I could say, I'll figure it out on my own, how long it ever takes me, I don't, I cannot afford that. Right. I want it as soon as possible.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

Well, and there's a lot of pressure in parenting, there's a lot of uh I'm just laughing because I'm like, it's so much harder than I ever imagined it would be. Say more. Even with all of my experience and training, even with countless professional developments and credentials and studying the child, the the brain in child development, it has been such uh such a force of nature to knock me off of my feet almost every single day, where I feel humbled, maybe humiliated, where my kids outsmart me, uh out-energize me, put me in my place, and they have really challenged me and humbled me to the point where I see okay, this is more than I thought it would be. I need to level up. I have got to figure out more strategies or more ways of changing my energetics so that I meet them in a way that invites collaboration, that invites cooperation. Belonging and significance is what I want to impart upon them. Yeah, and when you belong, when you feel your belonging, when you feel the significance of your actions, you act differently.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

And when my children are out of alignment, I feel it because it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable for me too. And rather than force them into submission, which never works. Ever. Yeah, point blank. Like you will not win a um a power struggle if you are trying to win a power struggle.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

A power struggle is rupture.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

It's rupture. Once you're in a power struggle, it is already rupture, and once you are physically removing your child's body or moving them out of whatever they want to be doing into something else, you have already lost.

unknown 17:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

And they lost too.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Nobody wins.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

And I've learned over time that the way to effectively win a power struggle is to not engage at all in the power struggle, to drop the rope. If you imagine that you and I are playing tug of war, yeah, and it is hard, and I'm about to get knocked over, and I can feel your maybe I'm gonna knock you over too. Like we're going back and forth, we're going toe-to-toe. The best way to win that is to let go. And it's the same with our children. When we find ourselves being drawn into a power struggle, let go, resource yourself, and come back with another presence in mind. And generally, the fastest way to come back with another presence in mind is to think playfully, and it disarms them, it totally shifts the narrative, it flips the script.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Yeah, it totally does. Tell me about the the brain and the play. Why does play why is play working so well? Like, you know me, I'm a coach too.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

I don't coach in a lot of play. Like, a lot of my coaching has more to do with strategy, yes, like data, like analytics. So to me, it's kind of like, wait, what?

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Wait, what? Okay, so when so it's about it's about the novelty moving you into an experience where you are more receptive, curious, engaged with more parts of your brain are lighting up when you're in a play experience, and you are having dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin flood your body through laughter that allows you to feel more brave, more confident, more connected, and more embodied.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Wow. Yes. I feel like you've I feel like you've you've unlocked a gift. Alright. We need to bring people into this experience. That's right. So I'm we're gonna do some games, and Jill is gonna share some of her. You gotta share some of the games on the workshop.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

I've I have listened to this already four times. No way. I can't make it. I can make it.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Oh, I love it. Oh my god, okay. I remember this scenario. So here's an example of something I witnessed that um has worked really well. Two two scenarios, maybe. But one time I was in the presence of, you know, our children are like little brothers and sisters.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Oh my gosh, they love each other so much. And full disclosure, our sons have been best friends since they were 18 months old. That's right. They were in a toddler class together. We quickly bonded and became friends, and we quickly realized like we're each other's extended family, chosen family.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

And um, when our kids see each other, they light up and disappear for hours. They light up with excitement, they get very loud and very fast. Yeah, they run away.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Yeah. I call it cachorriar, like with puppies. When puppies are totally puppies, they're such puppies. But one of the things I I remember witnessing this, this is a confession. I'm gonna make a confession that is oh so I remember I I could tell my son was dysregulated, yeah, and and that usually feel it's in the field with everyone. And I remember this spaghetti, and you came into the room taking charge because I was frozen, not knowing what to do. Yeah, like do I remove you? Do I go home? Like I had I had that in my back pocket, sure. And then you came in, and it's like you knew that what was happening required some release, something, you know. So you were testing the the spaghetti. So here she comes. I'm gonna describe it to you. Here's my son, and she and she this is this is I'm gonna do the best impression of you. Okay, I see that you guys are all having so much energy. Would anybody want to be turned on into a spaghetti or something to that effect or pasta?

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Yeah, yeah. And I remember you they were willingly placing themselves on your lap.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Yeah, and I'm like, who are these kids? You know, it gave me the sensation of the person with the fluid. That can play music.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

The Pied Piper. Yes. Yes. The Pie Piper leading the children. That is the energetics that you have. Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

So here comes my my little one who was not listening to me willingly placing themselves on top of jail. Here is Jill is like so calm. I'm gonna roll you like a like pasta. Yes. And she started rolling them, and then she went like this.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Nope. Having done the buttons with a minute. It's sensory. It's a sensory experience. Yes! So imagine somebody somebody takes a gentle hand and tickles the inside of your arm. And how instantly that changes your whole state of being. I mean, we're doing it to ourselves right now. That's a resource. That's a resource. Okay, so imagine, yes, our children get so amplified together. And I've seen the way that like teachers or other parents might get really nervous when because that energy is very intense. Yes. And what we can do is meet that energy and give it an outlet, like you said. And so sometimes that looks like a sensory touch from head to toe.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Where there's varying degrees of pressure.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Because sometimes people like to be squeezed.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Okay, here's the thing though. I saw you do that.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

And it worked. In fact, I have seen you do all of your things, and you know what's really incredible?

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Tell me.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

Your methods are lethally good. They rarely fail. Rarely. And if they fail, it's usually because the adult couldn't pull through fully.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Yes. You gotta hold it.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

But the method itself is letally effective. So here I come, yes, and I move to Bushwick. Yeah. And I meet this family who has two boys. Okay. And they invite me into their home. Yes. And I bring Santi. Yeah. And the energy feels familiar to that day.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

You know that way.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

And guess what I did?

SPEAKER_00 24:00

You moved the spaghetti.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Yes. It gets better. It worked. So I was like, oh, I can embody what Jillian told me. Yes. The parent noticed, and now she does spaghetti. And this story of the spaghetti, it's a thing we connect with because this person was so like, what did you just do?

SPEAKER_00 24:20

What kind of butchery did you do to this? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

And now and I couldn't put it all together. Now I'm so glad I can say, take the workshop, go to the playbook. Please. Because you're learning all there.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

So I wanted to make that confession. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I love that. I I am simply sharing the tools that I have learned and that I feel are so invaluable because parenting is so challenging that we need to have the most resourced toolkit around our waist at any time. That's right. And when we can meet our children, and instead of correcting their behavior or their energy and making it manageable or making it bite-size, we simply cater their environment to meet their needs so we can ride that energy wave right back down.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Naturally.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

And so when they are high intensity, we throw a pillow fight. We whack the shit out of each other with pillows. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

This is my space.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

You are allowed to say what you want. Okay, great. Um, we're uh we're all parents here. Okay, so yeah, we we meet that energy when my child is trying to hit me, which they do, right? And I'm a person that holds a lot of I I can I can feel a a very big amount of anger inside of me. If I'm being honest, like I and I always want to be honest, I'm a person that that sometimes will r resort to yelling, yeah, that will lose my temper, yeah, that will come into rupture with my children, and then I have an opportunity to apologize and repair and make it right, and to model to my kids, I lost my temper. I am so sorry that I yelled. That was not okay. Yeah, and next time, next time I think I'm gonna do things differently, I'm gonna try, I'm gonna try walking away when I first start to feel that charge. Yeah. So that I can come back in a better way. You know, and I model that thinking for my children so that they know everybody makes mistakes. Yes, and mistakes are forgivable.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

And when we make mistakes and we ask for forgiveness, we are even stronger. Our bond is even stronger than it was before. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

I remember a conversation we had a long time ago around this vein, and something you said on the last workshop that I attended twice. You honor me. I can get enough of it. Um sorry, as a parent, it's a really powerful feeling to know you can control the room with love and playfulness. That's right. But anyway, I remember having this conversation with you because there's a lot of shame around activating that hard towards a really small kid. Of course. Unless you've been in the room when you just like they really activate you.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Oh, yeah. And they're feeling that's their job. They are trying to find your edges. Okay, that's exactly where I was going.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

You said something on the worship that said it's okay for your child to find your edge.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

And and one of the conversations you and I had in which we were both feeling a little bit like, oof, like anger is my easy. I that anger is my the energetics I have the most access to as well.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

You and I both, yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

And I told you this all the time. Like, I feel like a giant bear. Like, I'm just like, I'm huge and I'm big, I'm thousands.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

I am stronger than you. I will will you into being, I will will you towards my concourse.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

That's right. That's how I feel often. Yes, and I remember we we're talking about it's like let them meet the bear, let them meet the edge. Yes, and this is less about avoid. So, what am I saying? There's a lot the philosophy for you. I feel how I receive it is practice, practice, practice all the time, bringing yourself as present as you can. Yes, and you have the permission. If you don't have any other choice, if your edge is gonna show, work on repair because you will always have rupture no matter what happens.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

We're humans, we're human beings, that's right, and even though we study and we try our hardest and we do our mindfulness practices and we are sitting there meditating and working on our highest vibration, we still make mistakes. Totally, and our children need it to be okay to make mistakes. I agree, and we need it to be okay to be a human being, that's right, that's right. All right, and so let's just accept ourselves, right? Radical acceptance for all parents, for every mess you find yourself in, for every accident, for every for every uh rupture, let us let it be okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

Yes. I want to bring people into the play. Yes, because we have gone through this depth, but we but I'm gonna qualify this because I want to burst this myth and perception. Yeah, your parenting is leadership oriented, not permissive, right? And so what you'll what you'll experience is that is true parenting leadership, not permission, but also not dictatorship. Right, you will not find yourself playing hours and hours and hours bending over to them. I find that you, this I didn't realize 10-15 minutes, 20-minute investment.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

You're you have diffused a great percentage of tantrums for the rest of the day.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

It's amazing. You and that's that is one of the biggest pieces that I think I had to learn was I kind of thought as an adult that when I say yes to play with my child, that I am hooked in for an amount of time that I do not wish to give, that I might not have. I need other, I need to focus on other things. I have a house to run here, I have work to do, I have dinner to cook, etc. Right? We've gotta like check all these boxes. Yeah. And so something I learned through Dr. Aletha Solter, who created Aware Parenting and the subset attachment play, which has been deeply inspiring to me. Something I learned there is the uh this idea of a gem moment, a genuine encounter moment. And what a gem is when you give it to someone you're in relationship with, is a moment of total presence. It can be five minutes, it can be ten minutes, hey, it could be twenty. That would be like luxury. Elite, elite gem moment. But it's when you have no distractions, your phone is not present, there's no buzzing, there's no to-do list, there's nothing taking you out of that moment. You are fully dropped in, you are fully present, and you are letting your child lead with wonder and awe and curiosity, and you are matching that energy. And what I find is when I really let myself go into a gem moment, and a gem with my kid, they get fully saturated, their cup is filled, and they inevitably turn away from me energetically and continue their play, and I am able to backpedal out of the room, or even just thank you so much for this time. That was so special. I had such a fun time with you. Yeah, I'm gonna go in the kitchen now and make dinner. Yeah, if you need me, I'll be in there. Yeah, I can't I might formally end it like that, or I might just like sneak away. Yeah, and I have effectively filled their cups and allowed myself off the hook back to the work that I have to do as a nuanced, responsible parent just holding a thousand things in my head at any time. Yeah, and it's like that in groups of children too, but but there's nothing like the desire, there's there's nowhere else that you're gonna see the desire for connection as strong as from your children to you. When you give it to them, you meet the need.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

That's right, you meet the need.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

When you are sitting there trying to play, but you're really looking at your phone, or you're really like actually trying to clean the room that you're in, or whatever, you are not going to meet the need.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

And the child is going to constantly beg for more, and they're gonna start spiraling to try to get your attention in another way. Yeah, and that's where we start to see behaviors like hitting and throwing and yelling and or they'll shut down.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Or shut down, they'll shut down because they will, and you know, it's funny, some of these things have happened with my son sometimes when I cannot consistently provide, and it's hard because as a single mom, yeah, I'm I'm doing all of those things. Like I can't pass the ball to anyone. Totally. I am bound to have moments in which I'm distracted trying to provide this, and I see him sort of dimmed down and in acceptance that that's not accessible, right? Oh, and sadness, yes, and so now the reason why I put myself in the playbook is so that I get I'm buying myself the pressure to be disciplined about it. Yes, because in my construct, my margin of error is tiny, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Right, yeah. So you wanna show up, you wanna come correct.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

I'm gonna come correct. She's gonna come correct, or I'm gonna die trying. Anyway, you and I both let's bring the play. Let's bring the play. Um, it's gonna be it's different on the podcast because you can't see us.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

But Jillian, why don't we why don't you walk us through some of the fun games that are life-changing while I grab my water?

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Okay, one of the first places I want to start, you and I both mentioned that we that we air towards anger. Okay, and I I would venture to say that many parents likely would would um default to anger over any other emotion when their child is dysregulated or having a hard time. Yeah, when they're embarrassing you in the grocery store or whatever, they've come to the birthday party and um they're out of control. Okay, so one of the ways that I like to play with this idea of being a big mama bear, big angry mama bear, is to actually flip it and do a power reversal game with my kids. So I like to pretend um, I like to pretend that I'm going to go to sleep in an area of the playroom or wherever we are, right? I'm just gonna go to sleep over here, and nobody better wake me up. I'm gonna get really angry if that happens. And I'll give this look to my children like you better not. And they get so inspired and activated, they start to giggle already, and they'll be like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, go to sleep. Go to sleep over there. I'll lay down and I'll start within seconds. My children come over in some kind of silly way to wake me up. Now, and you get to dictate what is it that wakes you up when they scream in my ear. No, that's not gonna wake me up because I don't want that to be a winning strategy for you. That's right. No, thank you. I don't like that. I will give a limit, I will give a boundary. These are my ears. You may not scream in my ears, that will not wake me up. Try something else. Sometimes they come around, they they're singing or they're trying to tickle me. So I get to decide what will wake me up, and when I do wake up, how dare you! I'm gonna get you! And I come after, I'm so mad, and my kids are squealing and loving it, and then they'll be like, Mama, fall asleep again. Yeah, do it again. They want to experience a safe, consensual version of my anger. They want to experience what is it like to play with that archetype outside of the context.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

So that I can see that edge, but in a in a game where it's not gonna hurt me. And I get to play with that archetype, I archetype, I get to amp it up. I get to be like my most embodied angry self. So that's healing to my nervous system also because I'm meeting that edge, and my children are seeing that edge, and it fills them all the way up. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Wow, that is insane.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

It's incredible how quickly it works.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

So when you're playing these power reversal games, you're giving your child an opportunity to experience the kind of power that they're craving. So often children are feeling powerless, diminished, incapable, um, unable to do things on their own. And imagine how frustrating that is. I mean, all of us can take our minds back to when we were children and think of a time that you felt diminished. Think of a time you felt powerless. Imagine if you had an adult in your life at that time who gave you a taste of the opposite on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

And allowed you to diffuse that feeling and change the narrative that's growing inside of you towards the opposite. No, I am very capable.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

I I'm important in this space. I am valuable in this home. What I do and say matters here. The way I treat my family matters. Yeah. The way that I interact with my mom is important.

SPEAKER_03 39:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

The way that I interact with my dad or my or my mama or my grandma or whoever it is, all of the people raising me, it's important how I treat them.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

And so they get a taste of what is it like, what is it like to push past in play so that when I'm in my regular right relationship, I know where the middle is. I have felt all of those boundaries. Yeah. You know, both in play and in life.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

Which is developmentally what they're seeking.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Exactly. They need to feel the edges.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

They need to feel the edges. You know, can I tell you something that really landed for me? Please. It may not land for everyone else, but for me, my sole purpose in life as a parent is to make sure that my son can be fully independent in his way of thinking and leading life. When I attended your workshop and you told me there's about 300 directives that are given to children. And I thought to myself, if somebody was bombarding me with 300 instructions, it would erode my sense of of um my sensation of being capable.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:19

It diminishes the self-esteem.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

Right.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Because as a child, you feel constantly helpless and inadequate. Yes. So a lot of the frequent interruption and the frequent talking down to the children is eroding their ability to find it within themselves how to rise up to the occasion because we are doing the work for them.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

And you know what really hit me though is when if something happens to me and I'm not there, who will give the instructions to my son then? If I continue on this path. Right. What will happen is he probably gets into other relationships in which he will be seeking that kind of direction.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

Directed.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

How poorly have I done to my child? That's why I joined your container. Because I'm like, I cannot, if my sole purpose is so that this human can fully find place in the world on its own, yeah, then I cannot constantly be interrupting and directing. I have to find a way to inspire the pieces that are gonna make him independent in a way that retains his dignity and self self-esteem. Yes. You know, and maybe nobody else can do that, but parents, to me, like that is my single most important goal.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

That's right. Yes, that's a mic drop. Yes, yes, I feel it so much because um we all want we all want children who feel resilient. We all want children, we all want to raise our children in a way that allows them to feel empowered, dignified, respected, and respectable. We want them to all feel that they are able to handle whatever challenge comes to them.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

How do they learn that? They learn that through experience, through be given permission to try. That's right. And being given permission to sort out their own solutions. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

This is so good. I feel we're getting close to our time, but what I want to do, maybe we can do another one of the games that are really funny.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Um, I don't know if you can think of one that will work well well for this format, but sure, like I love your majesty. Yeah, I love the remote control. Yeah. And if anybody here, I'm not gonna make, I'm not gonna make free free marketing, but there's a show out there. It's a cartoon show. Oh, yeah. With dogs in it. Okay, we know that one. Okay, so that show is not just entertainment. You know what I picked up when I met you? I felt you were embodying the energy of that show. Thank you. And it went from simply being an ideal cartoon into I can actually be the dog that does that.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

I can do this, yeah. What I love about that model is that it gives parents permission to fully go in. When you say you're gonna go in, when you say you wanna give your child presents, fully give them presents and commit to it. And it's like an improv game. I'm gonna go all the way in.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

Thank you for listening to Make It Less Scary. If this episode supported you, share it with someone who's in a transition and leave a review so more people can find this work. It helps me more than you think. And if you are ready for deeper support, come into the Make It Less Scary ecosystem. Join the courage circle for community and accountability, or apply for 101 coaching for precision and structure. Links are in the show notes. Keep going. I'm so proud of you. See you next time.