Full Circle: Courage, Leadership & Reinvention with Kim Jenkins

What happens when the woman who once changed the trajectory of your life sits across from you years later on your podcast?

In this deeply personal full-circle conversation, I sit down with Kim Jenkins  executive leader, author of Undaunted Aspiration, and one of the first people who truly saw potential in me before I could fully see it myself.

Together, we talk about courage, visibility, relationships, leadership, reinvention, and what it really means to choose yourself.

This episode is honest, heartfelt, expansive  and one I’ll never forget.

📚 Undaunted Aspiration: Lessons of Curiosity, Courage, Authenticity, and Purposeful Intention
By Kim Jenkins

🔗 https://www.thekimjenkinsexperience.com/

https://www.instagram.com/lessscarywithmaria?igsh=MWNsYnNnaWh6dDFoNQ%3D%3D&utm_source=qr

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Welcome to Make It Less Scary. I'm Maria Jose Oliver, your host. If you're building a new chapter, a business, a relationship, a new life, and fear is feeling much louder than your plan, you're not alone. Most people think fear is where we stop. But here at Make It Less Scary, we treat fear differently. In this space, we make fear usable. We turn it into data, into structure and movement, so you can lead yourself through the change with truth and courage and momentum. Because growth doesn't just require desire, it also requires your leadership. I'm so glad you're here. Let's get into today's episode. I am sitting, if I can explain to people the beautiful place that we're in. Yes, but I am sitting with my hero. Like if you and I this is gonna sound super cliche, I know, don't roll your eyes, but if you grow up looking up at someone and then you see them for because we met we've known each other for over 20 years, and I have the honor of having Kimberly Jenkins here with me today. I want to make sure that I give her a proper introduction, and because I'm gonna turn 44 this year, I'm gonna have to read it. But I want I want everybody who's listening to understand how incredible you are. All right. So Kim is the CEO and founder of the Kim Jenkins Experience, executive advisor, coach, and strategist. She's the former global head of diversity and equity and inclusion at PayPal. This is not like some startup, these are like heavy hitters. You have worked, Kim, at almost actually, these are the most important financial institutions in the United States and globally. JP Morgan is there, Bank of America is there, Deutsche Bank is there. And on top of that, the same fine bottom that is honoring myself today also sat at the World Economic Forum. That was, she was selected for that. But beyond this incredible, unmatched professional experience, you have been one of the most significant women in my life. And I say this today, which you still say her thing, but Kim has honored me twice. In my first when I started my work in banking, and now as an entrepreneur, and you have been the common denominator in both. So, Kim, I want to thank you and welcome you to Make It Less Scary. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_05 2:56

How do you feel? I feel amazing. After all those things you just said, who is this person you're talking about?

SPEAKER_01 3:04

She sounds awesome. It's you, it's you. Okay. How about we start like this to warm everyone up? I'm gonna take everyone back to 20 plus years before. Okay. I and I'm an immigrant, I am in Florida International University during the recruiting process. And here it is, one of the big banks is at the school. I won't name who it is because they're not paying me for it. I'm not gonna pay an ad for it. But here she is doing her job, and I see her. And if you're gonna see her right now, she was full-on, perfectly well suited. She looked beautiful, and I just thought, who, you know, it wasn't uh, I wasn't used to seeing powerful women. Okay, you know, like I saw my mom, but like in banking at school, I never saw someone that could project so much, you know, of their power. And that was just salivating. I was like, how do I get close to this woman? And then you know the other two, Oscar and Sasha, that I can say it on my podcast. Oscar and Sasha, I went up to them and they tell you you can say it. They didn't tell me that. But I didn't say they would be okay. I didn't say the last names, but I remember them so clearly. I mean, Sasha and Oscar for me are always gonna be important because they picked me up and I told them that I wanted to meet that woman and they brought me over along so that I could mix up with the rest of the students. And I thank you so much because when I talk to you, it's gonna make me teary eye. But hold on, it's very hard to feel seen by people in such a short interaction. But for whatever reason, I remember you commenting on like why I was wearing something from Anteller Loft, which is what my mom could afford at the time, and she suited me up, and you mentioned something about it, and all of a sudden I was like, Oh, wait, she noticed me, you know, and I think for young talent like I was at that time, that meant it gave me a boost of confidence, like, oh, I'm worthy of being noticed by someone as powerful as she is. And then I went on, I went on to buy all the interviews, which I was delighted. I was so enthusiastic about it. And then came the offer, which came through full. And I remember telling him, I cannot do it in the location that you guys have offering me. I need to do it in New York. And here comes Kim, and I'll never forget this. And I hope everybody in their lifetime gets to experience one person that bets on them like this. You told me, you better be as good as you say you are, because I'm gonna make a personal phone call, right? This is your own social capital in the organization, your career, and I'm gonna make a space for you. And the rest is history.

SPEAKER_05 5:58

Well, so there's a lot to that story. First of all, you deserve to be in every room you walk into. The real question is do you prepare appropriately to be worthy of the moment? In my opinion, what I saw, despite all that you brought in with you, what I saw was someone who had actually done the work. You knew who you were going to be standing in front of, you knew what you wanted from that moment, and I recognized that yes, you came appropriately dressed. You'd be surprised how many people show up to their moment and they don't look like they really care to be there. So I saw you. The fashion might have caught me. I I won't just actually I do remember you had on a houndstooth suit with a pretty black fitted waist belt. It was a pep peplum date. I remember that suit to this day, and that's what made me come over to say hello. What we don't often do is in moments where I knew the position I held in that moment, but I also had been in your space once upon a time in my life. So I knew what that felt like. We don't often create the soft introduction to make people feel comfortable in that moment. And absent that, you may never show someone what you're capable of. So I am very intentional about making that connection. You must have looked at me because I'm big on eye contact. Yeah. If you connect with me, you've got me.

SPEAKER_04 7:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:44

So I wanted to make sure that I let you know you look amazing. Yes. And that gave you everything you need. I don't think you stopped talking after that. I haven't stopped talking since I have a freaking podcast. Well, here we are, right? And so in that moment, Maria, I just wanted you to know, I saw you wanting to be seen and having done all the work you needed to do to be worthy of the moment. And shame on me if I didn't then create the scenario for you to show me what you were capable of. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

And that is all I did. This is the spot though, because I have worked 20 years in the industry now. I have seen all kinds of leadership styles, but the one that I still can like to me, how is it that you are one of the very few people because you you are okay. This is gonna sound crazy, but you know, a lot of in in in the industry, a lot of women can get pulled into what I call the CO roles, the HR. Yeah. You did real big business stuff. Like you were leading transitions, you were the CFO of divisions, like you were very much performing and providing results in the very masculine field. Like that wasn't a thing for you. That was not hard, but you were sufficiently soft and feminine to connect with how it is that you want to drive a company. Since that moment, I have talked to you so many times. I have mentored so many people that you've referred to me. I have been mentored by Charmaine, was one of the ones that actually mentored me that we were just talking about. What is it about you that you have enough expansion in you that you can do this? I mean, and to the point that you elevated yourself to be the like such a top executive at PayPal. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_05 9:47

So I don't look at the titles, I don't look at the roles, and I don't look at the hierarchy. I look at the work. What is needed and what am I going to do about it? My way and bring my own superpowers into the mix. That's how I look at it. So it doesn't matter what role it was, what scope of role it was, I was going to make it as big as it needed to be to deliver an impact. So when you when you say, like, what was it? It's the there was a need, and I wanted to fill a void, and I wanted to demonstrate what I was capable of, and I wanted to stretch myself and prove to myself, it's always to myself, that I was worthy and capable of sitting in the same rooms as other people where I may not have always been invited. And so for me, it was about create the opportunity and I will show you what I can do.

SPEAKER_03 10:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:51

Which is exactly what I presented to you when I said, what I said to you is you better be as good as you are saying you are, and as good as I believe you can be. Because in the end, if you don't believe it, you won't ever achieve it.

SPEAKER_03 11:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:14

And it becomes really easy to let people make you feel as if you're not worthy, you're not capable, you're not as good as, and then you sit in rooms with those people and you realize, is that what you're comparing me against? I win all day against that. If in fact the stakes are fair.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:38

And fair isn't often what you're put up against as a woman, as a woman of color.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:46

You don't have some of what I'm going to call the um benefits that others have.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yeah. I feel like in many ways, well, I'm gonna ask you how many people you've mentored, because I agree. I I think about that while I think about this. One of the things that I absolutely love and aspire when I look at your career is you came in with results first, bam, you know, like when you slam on somebody's desk, this is my portfolio, as giant as everyone else says. And I think it gave you a lot of power in your voice. So I was not shocked, but I was like, how does she move like that with so much freedom? You know, like I've seen you be from afar, because obviously I didn't work in your teams, but I will see the big projects that you were leading, but then you were also nurturing a whole scope of people that come along with you. And once we work with you, Kim, it's impossible. You're like, you're unforgettable. I know every single person that has ever worked with you or been mentored by you, you are an unforgettable leader because no one else I have gotten this excellent standard, like you're gonna do excellent work, nothing below that, but you're also gonna be treated with great dignity, you're gonna be inspired and you're gonna do great, like if you're surrounded in you. And so, one of my questions, and we benefited from that. How did you do it on your own? Like, did you have a Kimp for you? Because for me, it's kind of like I just sort of slit through the tunnel that you created.

SPEAKER_05 13:24

So you talked about my portfolio of work, right? You don't get to have a portfolio of work unless someone has actually created opportunities for you and provided the what I call the sponsorship and the air cover. Because when you're driving change and doing things differently, not everybody's okay with that. There will be noise. And the question is who's going to advocate for you and silence that noise? Or are they going to let you be the scapegoat that falls to the wayside because others are comfortable and complacent? So I always ask people, be clear about what it is you are asking me to do because I am going to do it. And when I do it, you're going to have to accept whether or not you actually wanted it done, or did you not believe it could be accomplished?

SPEAKER_03 14:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:19

That's not a me thing.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:21

I'm going to do exactly what I say I'm going to do. You are going to watch me accomplish it. And then you are going to have to decide if that's what you want. Now, you talked about being parts of my teams. Not everybody on my teams will have the same experience. On my teams, there was one requirement. You will deliver exceptional work beyond the scope of what anybody thinks we are capable of. Period. Period. We will not be mediocre. We will not be complacent.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:58

We will not just do what we are asked to do. And that sounds good. And people think they can do it until they try. Yeah. But I'm clear up front. This is non-negotiable. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so unless you believe you are willing to do the work to get there, you can't be successful in a space like that. That's right. So not everybody has that experience you spoke about.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:26

Some people struggle.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:28

But there is actual struggling and accepting that you can't. And then there is struggling and figuring out a way to overcome and do it. And then there's the it's too much. And you make the it the problem as opposed to trying to rise up to seeing what you're capable of doing.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:54

You and others felt like just throw me in. I will learn to swim. Yeah. And if I need you, I will reach for you. But I won't just reach for you to pacify me on any given day because you're on to other things. And that's exactly what happens in my teams. You ask me how many people I mentor. I don't know because it creates a ripple effect for me. To me, every mentors are just table sticks. Anybody will listen to you and give you their opinion. That's mentorship. Who's going to advocate for? Who's going to sponsor and or advise? Right. And most of what you need from people happens in rooms you're not in. Who's going to do those things for you?

SPEAKER_03 16:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:47

So I am always mentoring. I'm always helping. I'm always making myself available for people who actually want to be helped. I'm always coaching. I'm always guiding with one requirement. If I give it to you, you have to give it to everybody else. Not just to someone else. Yeah. But to everybody else I send your way for the remainder of your life as long as your heart is beating. Didn't I tell you that? Yes, you did. I will consistently send people to you. And because this universe has allowed you to have the sponsorship and guidance from others, you are required to give it back.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

I love that. I love that. And it stuck with me. I remember internalizing that as like, okay, if I am gonna take this help, I need to be ready to, you know, to nourish it back. And when you would reach out to me, how would be my response to you? You would just say, how high?

SPEAKER_05 17:54

I'm gonna jump. Just tell me how high. Like, wait a second, I haven't asked you to jump.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

You know why? Is and I know there's a lot of people don't say it like that, but you probably know that there's a handful, or if not more, of the people you've worked with that if you give them a call, they're not gonna ask you any questions. They trust you. They're just gonna be like, Where do you need me? What do I need to do? That's how I am with you. Every time Ken has called me for anything, I'll be like, How high do you want me to jump?

SPEAKER_05 18:28

Well, and you know, I don't take advantage of that, right? No, to me, that matters. That's the currency that is significant about the relationships you create. Yeah, I'm not just going to call you for anything, I'm not going to waste your time, I'm not going to put people in front of you who I don't think deserve your spirit and your kindness and your outreach. And so if I am saying, Hey, Maria, I need you. Yeah. That means I need you. Yeah. And you know I need you.

unknown 19:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:03

And you have never disappointed. Even with some of my crazy requests, you have never disappointed. Share one of the crazy requests, please. We want the juice. So I remember I wanted to make something happen for my friends and family. And I called you and said, I need you to go to this place and buy me this exact table. They're not going to want to sell it to you. They're going to ask you a lot of questions. Whatever it costs, get me this table. That is the table I want in this venue. And you went and made it happen. I don't know how you made it happen, but you went and I'm like, you have to go today. Yeah. Because I've committed to people that I can do this. And I did. So here I was committing to something with the trust that you were going to do whatever you needed to do to make it happen for me. Yeah. And you did it. And I did. It had nothing to do with mentoring, nothing to do with guiding, but had everything to do with the trust equity we had built. Oof. I love that. That was important.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Yeah. Because everybody doesn't get that. No, I was gonna say, I'm teaching this class about wealth energetics, but one of the things I say is the structures are masculine, are transactional, and they have a place. We have a place for transactions. But when you deal with human beings, you deal with trust and feelings and emotions and connection. And one of the reasons why I feel so at ease, like whatever you ask me, I have so much trust and respect for how you are, but also how you treated me, that in my mind is like this is the trust container. I want to nourish it. You know, this is cool. I want to do it like this so I don't think about it twice. But I want you to tell me about this trust equity, which is something that you internalize and you practice heavily in your old corporate life. We're gonna get to your entrepreneurship and your book in a hot minute. But but tell me about all these things that I know you've implemented. This is your own. I tell people this Kim is an innovator at heart. She innovates systems, she innovates culture, she she is by design an innovator because nothing that you do is traditional in a sense. You can play traditional and you can play well. It's boring though. But you do your own. How did you make this your own? Like what brought you to say these are the key elements of my sauce?

SPEAKER_05 21:29

It's it's just core curiosity. That's really all it is. There's always the if, but what if? So it's never enough to be able to just deliver. To me, it's about, and I don't know what to give it a nice and sexy term, it's innovative, transformational, and all those things. It's about very simple and core what if we could make it bigger and better. But it all starts with the what are we trying to solve for? Yeah. Right? And then if we solve for that, what tangentially can we also solve for? Why does it have to be this small? Can it be this big?

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Girl, I am in shock. I have spent a lot of my life working with great people, by the way. A lot of the leaders usually are hyper-focused. There's a lot of hyper focus on very being very specialized. Very few people have the stomach to consume big things. You make it. Not only you not only you can do it, but you make your own big dreams. How is it, Kim, that you know you can do it? Like a lot of I don't. I don't like it's it's that.

SPEAKER_05 22:46

I don't know I can do it, but I know I'm going to try. And what do you learn by trying? What you could possibly achieve.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:58

Right? I'm not going to, I am going to like hype myself up to believe it's possible until the universe shuts me down and tells me that it's not. I'm not gonna let you tell me it's not. I'm not gonna let anybody who hasn't done it tell me that it's not. Yeah. The universe is going to have to shut me down.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Damn, Kim, we should drop this mic.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

That's insane.

SPEAKER_05 23:28

No, because you know how people will kill your dreams. People who have done nothing at all, or people who have reached an echelon that they believe is where everybody needs to be, right? Will kill your joy. Yeah. Or dim your light. Yeah. And then what do you always feel like what if? Yeah. I heard um, I heard Viola Davis say, at the end of your life, you meet the person you could have become. And I always think about, I don't want to have regrets when this thing is over. Like all of us have an expiration date. We don't know when it is, we don't know what it is, but there's a lot of things that I wanted to do. Yeah. And once I've done those things, I have to now decide well, is there more?

SPEAKER_03 24:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:20

You always say expansion. Yes. Is there more that I want to do? What can I expand to if I can ask for more? You see, I listened to you. Yeah. This isn't just one way.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

It's actually reciprocal because you modeled a lot of that before I even came up with it. Like, make it less scary was born in October of last year. And what I share in it is an internalized work of my life, but a lot of what I saw in you, and what I see in you is tremendous audacity, a lot of competence. Like, this is one of the core things that I like to feel pride is like, listen, it's not just real cool thought and empowering, there's real backing to our ability, you know, to do things. And tons of permissioning. Like you per your modeling permission a lot of us to be bold. I mean, when you said about asking for more, like I never take a role and only do that. Never. That has never been me. I'm like, how do I 10 times more? And then some.

SPEAKER_05 25:24

And you know, in my career, I've been given roles because I've had um, I won't say complaints, I would say commentary and um thoughts on how they could be done. Right. And so if you're going to be the person who's critical, then perhaps you should be the person who takes it on and figures it out. So that has happened several times throughout my career, so much so that one of my um, I'll call him my mentor, my guider, my coach, my trainer, my everything, um, he once said to me, We're going to create this job. And I said, Let me tell you what the job should be. And I built this whole role. And I said, Oh, and by the way, I'd like to have it. I already had a job that I loved and was doing a really good job at. But when he said, as my leader, who was going to have a role on his leadership team, we're going to create this. All of a sudden I started thinking about, but that's this small.

SPEAKER_03 26:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:37

Why don't you create something like this massive? Make it big and hairy and scary, and then I'll take it.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:45

And then I'll deliver on it because those are all the tangents back to the point I was making earlier, yeah, that you could solve at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Yeah. I love that you are an expansive leader. You're a really good idea. You were born for it for leadership, Kim.

SPEAKER_05 26:57

Well, everybody doesn't love that because people do sometimes try to put you in a box.

SPEAKER_03 27:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:01

I've worked for leaders who want you to do just this. Yeah. Right. And then when you start building relationships horizontally and start collaborating vertically, and people see what you're capable of. Some leaders actually get insecure. I know a lot about that. And that insecurity, they try to project on you. Yeah. And then you then have to decide: does this fit for where I'm going? Or is that going to stunt my growth?

SPEAKER_03 27:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:33

On the other side of that, I remember having a leader. I'm going to actually say her name, her name is Kristen Jekyll. You remember KJ? I don't want to say the bank, but she came to me one day and she said, I'm going to go get another job. And I said, Why? And she said, Because I'm in your way. I was like, what exactly does that mean? And she said these words, and she actually like wrote it on my LinkedIn once. She said, You have had to spend your whole life proving to people that you're good. I don't want you to have to do that anymore. I'm gonna get out of your way so you can have my seat. Wow. That takes a very comfortable person to say that and realize they're doing that. Can she match your level?

SPEAKER_01 28:26

You met you met an equal. I was scared though.

SPEAKER_05 28:29

I was like, I can't do this. I need you. She's like, you don't. You're doing it now. I'm I'm just stopping you from having my role, my title, and more importantly, my comp. Wow. It's okay. Well, then now you say it that way, I'm gonna need you to go find something to do.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

How did that feel? How did that how did that change you? Because it feels like a moment that will rearrange you a little bit. You know what it made me do?

SPEAKER_05 28:53

It made me look across my team and see who was ready. And make, well, it also made me look across my team and see who wasn't ready.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:04

Who was I babying, cradling because I did not want to challenge or push them further than or who was I projecting my potential onto? Some people are comfortable where they are.

unknown 29:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:19

And if that's what they want, then that's gotta be fine for them.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:22

I could have been pushing too hard to pull some people forward. Yeah. So it made me think about those things. Yeah. But I always say the stars will rise. Yes. If you give get out of the way and give them the chance. And that's always been my thing.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:37

Give people the opportunity and see what they can do. You mentioned Sasha.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 29:42

I threw Sasha into a scenario that one would say he should have run from. And Sasha didn't run. And it's done wonders for his career.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

I mean, it's done wonders for all of us. This is the part that people don't realize. I did a quick math. If you've done a thousand people, it's too little. I think you're in the hundreds of thousands because the moment you help me, like you help Sasha, Sasha's wife, Sasha's kids, parents, grandparents, their entire life has changed as a result of him growing, and the same has happened for me.

SPEAKER_05 30:25

I didn't think about that.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Yeah. I mean, I was having breakfast with my mom. My mom knows you. She knows about you because the opportunity and the doors you opened for me helped her too. You know, and what mother doesn't want their kid to find a good role model that is kind to them and that helps them. And this in this podcast, we are allowed to cry, especially for the moments that are important. And so the magnitude, you know, I I always think about this.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

When you have people who are audacious and who do really big things and are as expansive as you are, if you are in their um surrounding areas, inevitably we all get carried up with you.

SPEAKER_05 31:19

Well, but that's what it's about lifting as you climb. None of us get there by ourselves. No, but a lot of us try to act like we did. Yeah. And then we forget that other people need what was given to us. And that is why I require it of people. So you can't ever forget. And that is why I check in. I do, you know it, about every six months or so. I make sure you still answer my phone call on the first ring. I make sure that if I send out a text, my my SOS, all of my kitties reach back out to me. Well, active the minions are activated. I do that. And I say, hey, it's time to check in. I have not heard from you. I need to know that you're okay. I need to know what you are doing. I need to know who you are helping.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Yeah. Yes. Kim, I have to ask you this because I mean, you guys are gonna see her. She's a fine, you will not believe she has this many years of experience because you look absolutely stunningly young. But you were at you were, you still are. You are at the peak of your career. You have already done almost everything you wanted and undone, like you've already achieved a lot. Most people would say, I'll stay here and sort of roll myself into, I don't know, until I finish my retirement at this corporation. And here you are. And I'm I'm I'm watching this novella from afar, and I'm like, where's she going now? And here she is, she's like, I'm gonna start my own business. And then I see you embodying a lot of the wealth and financial independence that you have built for yourself. It's like, I want to be in Aruba tomorrow, I'm going to. I don't want to be in this weather, I'm gonna do it. I want to buy the first electric car, I'm doing it. Like you were so unrestricted, undaunted, like unbound. You did your, you went ahead and started your own business, and then you also wrote a freaking book. How did you, how did you choose, like what was going on? Like you said, I think I'm done, I'm ready to jump. Like, what happened?

SPEAKER_05 33:31

So I don't impress myself. So let me start by saying, but it's nothing, right? I always start by saying everybody does it. I just decided one day I wanted to just not be where I was anymore. And I tried it twice. The first time I tried it, the universe gave me COVID, that gave the whole world COVID, right? So here I was like, you know what? I'm done. I wanted to be done by the time I was 50, and I said, you know what? I've given my whole life to this rat race. Yeah, and when you're in the rat race, you're a rat. And I said, I'm done with that. Now I've done the things I needed to do, right? I've created the capabilities, I've learned the things, I've proven what I could do, I've delivered results, I've driven outcomes, I've grown teams, I've done things at big brands. Let me just chill for a minute and decide what's next. And then COVID came. And then during COVID, I was presented the opportunity that I could not say no to with an amazing team of people. And so I took it.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:42

And then after COVID, I felt back in the same place again. This isn't exactly where my spirit is aligned right now. So I've done the things I needed to do here. I've committed, I've achieved. Let me now go try to figure out what do I want to do. The book only happened because I was put on so many stages to speak at so many events, and I show up, I carry this CFO title, this executive vice president title. But I'm just me. Right? You can slap any titles and things on me that you want to, but I'm still just me. This humble little girl who one day decided I want more than the people around me can envision for me, and I need to step out of that. I don't want to be comfortable with people who haven't done the things I want to do, want me to stay. Because people genuinely love you where you are. Oh, yeah. And that's not what I wanted for me. I couldn't love myself if I stayed where I was. And so I was just still the same person trying to figure out, but what is this thing? And I kept telling my story, but I would tell it as me. Yeah. With this personality, dressed like this, like this bubbly thing. My suit wasn't gonna be blue, my shoes weren't gonna be simple, like my nails were gonna be done. Like I was going to be me, right? And people didn't expect that. People had an expectation of what I needed to be with those titles and things. So I would tell my story, and then every time I would tell my story, I couldn't get off a stage. There would be lines of people waiting to talk to me. And I don't leave until everybody has a chance to talk to me. And by then, everybody had my personal cell phone number, right? So now I'm like auntie to 400 people today, a thousand people tomorrow. And I'm genuine auntie, right? I'm not the I'm not gonna answer if you call me. I am going to do whatever it is you need me to do for you. So that got to be a lot. And somebody asked me, why don't you write a book? Yeah. I'm like, why would I write a book? Who wants to hear my story? My story is the same as everybody else's story, it is no different. And sure enough, they're like, Well, look at the line of people who clearly want to hear your story. Yeah. I was like, point taken. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

I'll just write the book. And by the way, you can get this book on Amazon, I believe. It's called The Undaunted Aspiration: Lessons of Curiosity, Courage, and Authenticity, and Purposeful Intention. And I cannot help, I love that it says Kim Jenkins, and there's a little girl in a blue in a purple dress here with big New York City skyline.

SPEAKER_05 37:26

So that was intentional, right? So the book was just written to tell my story. But if I was going to tell my story, yeah, and I was going to use the word authentic in the subtitle, yeah, then it had to be my true story. Yeah. Yeah. And that's pretty humbling. But at the same time, you never want to show up and say, people, I say in the book, people see your glory, but they don't know your story. Yeah. And people don't relate to the fact that my life was scrappy. It didn't just, I didn't just wake up one day and had the custom-made, beautiful suits, right? I had to get to that. And I wanted people to see all of me when I showed up. Yeah. Not the titles, not the things the bio says, but all the stuff that came along with taking that seat.

SPEAKER_03 38:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:24

And that's how the book was born. And then out of the book came the business. Well, then people want me to help them. The thing that I've done my whole life. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

So I'm just doing what I've always done. Yeah. You know it's funny. When you are in the industry, you always try to read all of the self-help books. How many of them are written by women of color?

SPEAKER_05 38:51

Well, so more than you would think. So let's just say, how many of them get the exposure that the others get? So what we have, and and it's the universe, right? What we have gotten comfortable with is popular has superseded powerful. Yes. You don't have to be knowledgeable, you don't have to be smart, you don't have to be capable, you just have to be popular. There are a lot of knowledgeable, smart women of color with stories to tell. Yeah. But is it worth the fight?

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 39:35

To try to be the popular one and get the likes. Yeah. That's if that has to be your thing and that's your thing, then you get that exposure. If that's not your thing, then you don't. And not everybody wants that.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

I love this. If people like self-help books, they definitely should have this one on their shelf, is what I say. And secondly, it's not just for people in finance. I mean, if you are in finance and you want to read this, it's going to inspire you a lot. But I think of I think of my little cousins who want to be entrepreneurs. I think of people who have had a really hard childhood who may not see a possible way out of their circumstances. If they read this book, they'll be in power. And I think about women who want to be wealthy and sovereign. Read this book.

SPEAKER_05 40:20

And I always say, if you like boil it down very simply. See, I give away more of my books than I sell. Why? Because I think the people who need to read it probably can't afford to buy it. It only costs $20, right? So think about what that means, right? Yeah. I always say very simply, it doesn't matter where you are, if you're at point A and your spirit is telling you you should be at point B and you're struggling to find the way, that's what the book is for. Yeah. It doesn't matter what your point A is or what your point B is. Like we can't define for people what success should look like for them.

SPEAKER_03 41:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:02

People have to define their own version of what is their North Star.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:08

So wherever they are, if you're not where you want to be, and the path looks a little bit blurry, that's what that's for. Because, like you said, you looked in the room and you saw me, right? You didn't know all the stuff. No. Right? No. That it took for me to stand there in front of you.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

I didn't even, I didn't even get to know it until after your book was out for a lot of the parts.

SPEAKER_05 41:34

I saw a lot of it, right? Yeah. Because it was, do I really want people to know? But here's the scenario. I was at, I was speaking at um a boys and girls club event. And it was because that that's where my spirit speaks to the people who need to make a decision that's going to change their life at the early age. Right. It's there where you make decisions that ultimately impact where you can go. Well, so I I heard this woman, this young woman talk about my shoes. She was talking about my jewelry, right? She was talking about those things. And then she said, Oh, I could never get to that place because I'm in an environment. True story. I'm in an environment where my mother hates me. And I was thinking, okay. She didn't say it to me. She was saying it and I was hearing it. And I was thinking to myself, if she only knew my story, all these things are superficial, right? But I could relate to her. So I didn't want to call her out in the moment. I waited until we walked in the hall together. And I said, Can I ask you a question? And I said, Tell me, tell me why you think that.

SPEAKER_03 42:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:55

And I was listening to her. Yeah. And I said, Well, let me tell you my story. And then we we hugged, we cried. I mean, we did all the things, right? We did all the things. And then I said to her, do whatever you want despite that. Yes. Right? Yeah. In spite of those things, still find your path. And that's where the book kind of really took off for me. That's where the humbling of I might as well tell my truth. Yeah. But people maybe need to hear it. And if one person hears it, yes, and it gives them the inspiration or the motivation to rise above a scenario that they're giving power to, then my life is done. I don't know what our dash is for, right? But we're born and then we exit, and we're supposed to do something in our dash. So I think it's shopping and traveling, but I believe there's something substantive that you're supposed to leave behind. Yeah. Liberation. Right. So I have niece and nephew. I have all my kids, right? All of my adults that are now having their own families and doing their own things, right? My legacy is about in the end, who will look back and feel like they are in a different place because our paths cross.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

Yes. That's all it is for me. Yeah. And I know there will be other people that will feel like this, but I told you this is true. I said, you will not leave a day without a home. Even if it's physical shelter or a home and a family, so long as I'm alive. That's good to know because I get kind of reckless with my money. So, but I'm like, I got you and my mom and like all of my people, but like I love you that way. Oh, thank you. But I feel loved that way from you. Because now I'm gonna transition at this crazy, this, this crazy turn of events and full circle moments. Because here you are, the most significant person at the door of my future. And I did not find, without offense to anyone, I did not find the traditional thing I thought I was gonna see. I found you, an African-American woman in her highest power, at the door of my future. That's who received me. I'm like, somebody must like me up there. You know? And here I am in October, starting my podcast, which is not nearly as probably it doesn't take as much as to write a book. Like I literally just turned the microphone and I did my thing. But here you are observing me, letting me acknowledge my new thing that I'm doing. And I've coached and mentored people all of my life because that's by design, our jobs are like that too. And I've done it outside of, you know, outside of my formal business. But here you are giving me. I was like, could Kim benefit from anything I have to say? And here I am coming up with my proposal. I was like, would you like to do? Would you like to do this with me? And you said yes.

SPEAKER_05 46:06

So here's where it shift that perspective. Yeah. You said, here I am giving you. I'm not giving you anything. I came to you and said, I need. So you were actually giving me. That's the full circle moment there. Yeah. But you're looking at it as if I'm giving it to you. I was there to create opportunities for you.

SPEAKER_03 46:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:35

And now, because of that, you're in a place that when I needed a space of trust and was seeking some guidance, I came to you. So you're giving me nothing more than what I gave to you.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

That's it. It's such a huge validation though, because it makes me feel maybe it's not the same as that woman that said, Let me step out of your way. But it leveled if I I felt leveled. I was like, could I? The dream of any person that's been helped is like, I wish I could have something meaningful to offer back. You know what I mean? It's like, I wish one did. Yeah, I'm like, to me, maybe I'm the only one. Sasha, you you tell me if it's not true. Don't you wish you could be like, how can I repay back? How can I give it back? And to me, it's like I have enjoyed our sessions together in a way that you probably cannot imagine. Forget the business part. The sensation of doing this full circle and be like, I can finally like be of the kind of service that I really wanted to, you know. I don't think I've ever got to work with you directly.

SPEAKER_05 47:50

I don't think we did.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

No.

SPEAKER_05 47:53

I itched. I sort of satisfied that itched. No. I don't think we did. Some of the others did get to work directly on my team. Yes. But I sent you in a different path. Well, because you left me. You wanted New York, remember? That's right. How has I created the opportunity for you to be where you want it to be? Yes. Thank you. Forever. And what have you done? How do you pay me back? The exact same thing I said to you day one. Be worthy. Yeah. When you ask for something, and I always say, ask for exactly what you want. Yeah. When you ask for something, make sure you're putting the person you're asking for in a situation where they feel as if they should attempt to provide it for you.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:41

Right?

SPEAKER_03 48:41

Oh, that's powerful.

SPEAKER_05 48:42

If you're not, and I keep using the word worthy, you have to come to me knowing that if you're asking me for something, I'm going to try to do it. Yeah. But then what does that do to us?

SPEAKER_02 48:56

Yeah. Yeah. I want to ask you. So let me just wrap that up.

SPEAKER_05 49:00

Yeah. So you know how you pay it back? Yeah. By continuing to make me proud. You are an award-winning executive in your own right now. Yeah. Right? Yes. You're not the person I met 20 years ago. All I did was kind of push you into it.

SPEAKER_03 49:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:21

You had to do the work.

SPEAKER_03 49:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:23

Thank you for saying that. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

It's the truth. Kim, what does it feel like to be in a coaching container with me?

SPEAKER_05 49:34

Scary. So it's like make it less scary. It's scary. So, and here's the thing, right? So that's our full circle moment, right? And I said I recognized you because I knew that person. I had been there once. Yeah. I coach and guide executives all the time. I know. Right. So it's very different when you're on the other side of the sea. But I came to you and I said, I am not feeling aligned. I feel like I'm not doing enough. I feel like there is more I could be delivering. But I'm also really lazy right now. And I need to find that purpose. Like my book is all about purposeful intention. My whole life has been lived with purposeful intention. I didn't feel real purposeful and I didn't feel intentional. And I said, somebody who can help me with that is you. I know you were just starting off.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:37

Your official business. But I also know that I have probably sent a hundred people to you for you to coach. Yep. Before you started coaching. Yes. And I know I sit with my clients and I tell them all the right things to do. So it's not that I don't know what to do. Yeah. It's that I needed to hear it from somebody that I trust. Yes. And that I would listen to.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:03

But the moment we got in our first session, I started thinking, whoa, this is serious. Oh. Like I now have to sit, absorb, and listen. I have to shift my curiosity to be introspective now. And I have to do that with somebody who I will listen to. There aren't many people. Remember, like you can't just go and get guidance from anybody because everybody has guidance, but is it guidance you should listen to? Have they done the things, right? Or is this just people talking? We're in an environment where people can just talk. Right? No credibility. They can just talk, right? They'll get a million likes and they don't have to be right. I needed to find somebody that I trusted and that I would listen to. So it's valuable in that you're going to give it to me straight.

SPEAKER_03 51:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:54

It's valuable in that it's lived experienced. Yes. Right. You have had to every moment, every day, every role step up and demonstrate a commitment you made to me and to yourself and to your mom because she dressed you and sent you in that space, right? 20 plus years ago. You've had to live that commitment. So when I sit across the table from you now, now you have to make sure that you're still living that commitment.

SPEAKER_03 52:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:30

So it's scary for me, but it's also like a proud mama moment. Yeah. Because I'm listening to you guide me. I'm learning from you, right? It's not the other way around. Yeah right now. And I guess some sense it's reciprocal because we learn from each other all the time. But it's proof back to the I don't impress myself. I know what I need and when I need it, and I know how to ask for exactly what I need. Yeah. It doesn't bother my ego one bit that I come to you and say, I need you to help me. Yeah, I can tell. And I need to be a paying client. I will not take advantage of our relationship. You now have a business. Yep. I now need to pay you. Yeah. Send me the link. Yeah. And you did. And I did. It's fair.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

It's right. You were one of my first paying clients. I feel like that was like the moment, you know, when you do the ribbon cutting? I feel you've been up all of my ribbon cuttings. And to me, when you start a business, you start realizing that every client is going to be a good match for what you have to offer. Um, and I've taken my own trainings, you know, what should my ideal client be? And I was like, I love Kim. I want a client that is that has walked sufficiently on their own, that have some self-awareness, but that are open enough to accept a different curiosity, literally. Because not even like, even if you did not accept, because you don't take everything I give you either, like a full spoon. You are you're a discerning human being.

SPEAKER_05 54:18

I make sure I understand.

SPEAKER_01 54:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 54:20

I ask questions.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

Yes, but you always validate, yes, but you always receive me with curiosity. And to me, I find that one of the highest forms of intellect is someone who is sufficiently secure where they are and are like, but I'm open to hearing a different way. And trying it and can tell me what has been a thing that has stuck with you that we have talked about? Something like, for example, one of the things that uh stuck with me, um, not necessarily only about you, but like a lot of my permission and is, you know, why not me and why not now? Like I ask myself that question a lot when I'm about to do something that scares me. And what has it been in our interactions? You're like, I can't stop thinking about this thing that you told me.

SPEAKER_05 55:07

Okay, so I I need to I need to set it up for us here. I won't give the exact same thing, but I I was asking you a question, assuming and expecting that you were going to agree with me. And I was pitching it in a manner in which I thought you would have to agree with me. And then you didn't agree. And you said, I want you to shift your perspective. Words I use all the time with my clients, so it's not about not knowing what to do, it's about receiving it from someone in a way that I can actually accept it. Yeah, and what you said to me was that I needed to ask myself if I had done the work that I needed to do to understand that situation from the other person's perspective.

unknown 56:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 56:12

I set this whole thing up for you to agree with me, and you didn't agree, but you didn't say you didn't agree. You just gave me something else to reframe. I work with my clients on reframing all the time. I know how to reframe. I know I needed to reframe, but I didn't reframe. I came for you to validate my bad behavior and you didn't do it. Yeah. And that for me was the moment where I said, the ability to have that expansive thought combined with shifting my perspective. And I won't talk about some of the other things we shared in the hall, but those things have all come full circle into every scenario of my life.

SPEAKER_03 57:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:02

Not just my professional life, not just my personal life, but my professional and my personal life and all the tangentios in between.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

Yeah. Oh my God, thank you for saying that. I know I said this to you when you first reached out to me, and I was like, over my dead body. I said to you, over my dead body, will I not at least give it a try for you to live your most fulfilling, happy life? You said that. I said that. And I was like, yeah, whatever. And I meant it.

SPEAKER_05 57:36

And you were so excited. I was like, and I was like, yeah, whatever. I was like, you're way too excited about this. I did say that. I said, you're way too excited about this. I'm like, but look at us now. Look at us now. And it was only four weeks. Only four weeks. It was, but it was immediately week one when we started talking, I could hear you. Yeah. I could listen to you. I could trust with this relationship we had already built that you were telling me things that it's not like I didn't already know them. Yeah. It's just like I couldn't hear them from myself.

SPEAKER_03 58:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:13

I need this is what happens when you're coaching people. And I know you're going to experience it in your business the way I experience it in mine. I sit in front of people and immediately I know they know what I'm about to tell them.

SPEAKER_02 58:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:26

I just know that they can't figure out what to do about it. Right. And when we're in those moments, we show up as our worst self.

SPEAKER_03 58:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:36

Right. And so when we're showing up, when we're constantly showing up as our worst selves, we're burning bridges, we're ruining relationships, right? We're doing all of those things and we're not figuring out our way. Yeah. A year goes by, we're in the same place. Two years go by, we're in the same place. Three years go by, we're in the same place. And then we're wondering what's happening. It's not everything around you, it's you. It's you.

SPEAKER_03 58:56

It's you.

SPEAKER_05 58:57

It's you. And it's hard to help people get out of their own way. Yeah. Without the tools and the skills and the capabilities. Yeah. But they come prepared to complain. Yes. So you're not telling them anything they don't know. You're just helping them hear it and equipping them with the tools. Yeah. From someone they trust. I'm working with a client right now, and she's so excited every time she comes to my meetings now because I said, find a moment that you're proud of and bring it to me. Yeah. And then I remind her, hey, that's you. I wasn't there. Yes. I wasn't there in that moment. So the things that we're talking about, they're helping you. Yeah. And you'll find that with your clients. People will be, people should be honored to get to work with you because you carry with it not everything that you've had to do, but everything that you've seen and learned in our rippled waves of mentorship and sponsorship.

SPEAKER_01 59:52

100%. Oh my God. Thank you so much for that. Kim, you look radiant. You seem so happy. I am delighted to listen to you. I don't know if they told you, but you have the voice for a podcast. And I know you're gonna listen to yourself, but I'm gonna make an offer here. Come as many times as you want.

unknown 1:00:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:15

Make it less scary is your home. Okay. I am envising a takeover. Oh my God. I will be delighted to do like a deep dive on the book and have a few series. I don't know, just putting it out there. But I want to nut you into it. It's so delicious to hear you.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:36

So I I go right back to that same person pre-book. I feel like nobody wants to hear it. At the same token, I hear you bring up Sasha and Oscar, and I can think about all the others and the others, right? And I think about somebody started this let's give Kim her flowers thing. And I it was embarrassing to me because while I appreciated it, while I appreciated it, it was like, oh my god, like like the spotlight was like right on me. And you know, I'm not a spotlight kind of person.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

We love to love you. I feel like if you were to get us all in a room for an episode, that is actually my goal.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:16

I want all my kids, all my proteges in the room together. Not about me, yeah, but so all of you can remember where you started from and look at where you are now. And because all of you, somewhere along the lines, had to be in the same room together, had to be helping each other, had to compete against each other. That was important. Not everybody got to make it, yeah, but everybody got the chance.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:48

Yeah, yeah, it's so true. I'm gonna make an open call. Anyone who knows the wonderful, the magnificent executive, Kimberly Jenkins, who is not a wonderful entrepreneur, uh, an author, uh, a published author, you know. If you all want to come to make it less scary and want to have a party, a party to celebrate her and ourselves, I'm gonna open it up for anyone who wants to do that.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:13

All of you.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

All of me, too.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:15

I'll just be there.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:18

Oh my god, Kim. This has been incredible for me. I hope it has been incredible for you. It's been scary. It's been scary. Let's make it less scary. I want you to close our session. Bless it, bless it with your wisdom. It could either be for you, for me, for us, for the collective. Tell me, how would you like to close this wonderful, amazing episode?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:46

So here's what I would say, and let me do it from two sides. Let me take it from those people in positions like the position that I was in. I like to say we have a responsibility and should hold ourselves accountable for making sure nobody ever feels invisible when they're looking for an opportunity. It's not always gonna be the loudest-mouthed person with the most courage, right? That's going to be your talent, right? Your talent may be silently an introvert that is hyper-ventilating and afraid and just needs the eye contact or the connection. Find the invisible people in the room and see them. That's important to the youths in the room. Become worthy, come prepared and shoot your shot. Yeah. You've got nothing to lose. If you don't shoot your shot, you've lost already. And speaking of shooting shots since I took it there and since it's NBA playoff time, um Kobe once said, Kobe Bryant once said, I do everything I can to prepare.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:17

So when it's time to play, whatever happens, happens. But it won't be because I wasn't prepared. Wow. So there are things you can control and there are things you can't. But you are responsible for the things you control. And the last thing I'll say is this, and it's it's something I saw somewhere. I don't know who to attribute it to, so I'll attribute it to me. Um I always say if people watched what you do, yeah, would they believe you mean the things you say? Oh yeah. We all say we want this, we want to do that, but our behaviors and our disciplines don't lead us towards that. Yeah. We all say we want the help, but we're not willing to invest in ourselves. Whoa. That happens a lot. So we are the they we are waiting for. If there is something you want, nobody owes it to you. Go full back to where we started. Make yourself worthy for the opportunity to be presented to you. Don't expect something from somebody.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:35

Wow. If you're putting them in an awkward situation for them to have to give it to you. That's right. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:43

Amazing cube. I leave you guys with that. Until next time, until the next episode of Make It Less Scary. Thank you, everybody. Thank you for listening to Make It Less Scary. If this episode supported you, share it with someone who's in a transition and leave a review so more people can find this work. It helps me more than you think. And if you are ready for deeper support, come into the Make It Less Scary ecosystem. Join the courage circle for community and accountability or apply for 101 coaching for precision and structure. Links are in the show notes. Keep going. I'm so proud of you. See you next time.