In and Out Talks Remote Podcast 6: Matt Matulia

On this episode of the In & Out Talks Podcast, powered by Tier One Performance, we’re joined by Matt Matulia, a former Division I baseball player at The Citadel, professional baseball player, and minor league coach with a wealth of experience at multiple levels of the game.

Originally from Florida, Matt also spent time coaching at Florida State, gaining valuable insight into player development, leadership, and what it takes to succeed at high levels of baseball.

But this conversation goes deeper than just the game. Today, Matt is focused on a new mission — living out his faith and teaching the word of Christ, while leading his family alongside his wife and daughters.

In this episode, Matt shares his journey through baseball, coaching, and ultimately finding purpose beyond the field. From lessons learned in competition to the importance of faith, identity, and impact, this is a powerful conversation about growth both as an athlete and as a person.

🎙️ Tune in for an inspiring episode about purpose, perspective, and what truly matters beyond the game.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Five.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Welcome back to the In N Out Talks Podcast, guys, hosted by Tier One Performance. Your host, Mitch Metoulia, Jordan Powell here. Today's special guest, Matt Metoulia, former college baseball player at the Citadel, got drafted by the Chicago Cubs, and then went on to coach at Florida State, and now is a father of three girls, girl dad, and a pastor. Quite the resume. Also a cousin of mine, which is really cool. Matt, welcome to the show, man. Thanks for uh taking the time to join us today. Yeah, yeah. Glad to be here. Excited to talk with you guys. Dude, man, first and foremost, you know, on our podcast, every episode, we just kind of have our guests tell us a little bit about where you're from and a little bit about your childhood, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Yeah. So um I'm from Eustace, Florida. Uh we're about an hour or so northwest of Orlando. Um, I say I'm from here, grew up here, uh, lived in a few other places in Florida. So I guess my childhood, uh, especially kind of sports-wise, my dad was a college baseball coach. So, you know, just my earliest memories, really all my memories, are like on the baseball field, uh, even with dad's college guys, him coaching and John and I just hanging out, playing. So, yeah, I mean, baseball's been a big part of our lives, um, our family's lives, I would say. And um got to uh I played high school baseball here at Eustace and uh was fortunate enough to win a state championship um in 2000. That was my sophomore year. And then my brother John, who's a couple years younger than I am, they actually won it again in 2000 um 2003. So I was I was in college that year. So yeah, so there's I I would say some pretty good baseball tradition here in Eustis. Um, some pretty good players have come out of here. There's right now there's a couple of guys in the big leagues um who played at Eustace High School with my youngest brother Jake. And um, so yeah, um played college baseball, played some minor league baseball, spent some time coaching. Um, but ultimately um the Lord led me into ministry. And so started ministry working for the Fellowship of Christian athletes. So um got to be around some more baseball, doing that, plus other sports, just enjoyed being around coaches and athletes, um, being one myself, and then ultimately uh uh transitioned into pastoral ministry and we planted a church uh two and a half years ago. So doing that right here, Lakeside Covenant Presbyterian Church. And we're over in Mount Dora, but it's all the same area.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

So yeah. That's awesome, Matt. That's awesome. And you know, growing up in in Central Florida area, I mean, that's a huge baseball hub, right? Um, did you grow up playing any other sports or was it just pretty much baseball from the from the start?

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Yeah, I mean, as a kid, I would say we played everything, you know. Um, like, I mean, I can remember playing basketball. We played, you know, what's crazy, I tell people this my favorite sport that I ever played besides baseball was hockey. And we played, yeah, we played roller hockey in Miami, and it was so much fun. Like we would play hockey all the time. We'd play in our street, we play in the driveway, I mean, everywhere. There was uh some tennis courts near us that they took the nets down one time and we played hockey on the tennis courts. It was awesome. So played hockey, and then when I got up here and like was getting into high school, I played middle school basketball, but um started just focusing more on baseball. I uh played football my freshman year, but honestly, I wasn't very big or very fast, so it wasn't that much fun for me. So I was like, yeah, I think I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna give that up and just focus more on baseball. So in high school, as far as like um school sports, I played golf in the fall. We had our golf season in the fall and then baseball in the spring, but then always just played pick up basketball, you know, flag football, whatever. Just always playing something.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Um so yeah. That's awesome. And your high school coach now is uh Chet Lemon, former all-star for the Detroit Tigers, correct?

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Yeah. So I had two coaches actually. Um when we won the state championship, it was a different coach, David Lee. And then after that year, um, he went back to his alma mater, Leesburg, to coach, and then Chet came in. And Chet was there for a while, and my brother John played all four years for Chet. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

So how was it, you know, growing up, three boys, athletic household? I mean, how was the competition like in that house?

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Yeah, a lot. So, you know, um, my youngest brother Jake is 14 years younger than I am. So it was really like I grew up with my brother John, um, which you you know, John, um, and him and I are two years apart. And so we just were always playing everything together. And I would say, yeah, I mean, we were always competing. If anyhow, if it had a ball, we were playing it, you know, like we were playing with a ping-pong ball and a little whiff ball bat, trying to strike each other out and out in the yard playing home run derby. I remember doing that, you know, just throwing each other balls and playing home run derby. And um, I remember being uh uh at my dad's practices uh when we were young in Miami and shagging, shagging fly balls and like the whole day just trying to catch one, you know, because yeah, when you're a little kid, it's like they're a mile in the air. And I remember John caught one and it took him to the ground, like it just completely took him to the ground. Yeah. Um and so yeah, just everything. And then uh I think you know, I was older, so and probably in some ways when we were younger, I was maybe a step ahead. But I think that really paid off for John in the long run. Because by the time I was in college and he kind of he he caught up to me, I'll say, and honestly, really athletically surpassed me. Um, he was really the talent of our family. Um, I was a you know, a pretty good athlete, good player, but John was really good and really good athlete. He was faster, he was stronger, he could throw harder, like all the things. Um, I remember when I was, I guess I was probably a sophomore or a junior in college, and John came up for our hitting camp and hit with us and stuff, and all my teammates were like, dude, why can't you hit like your brother? This is when he was like a senior. I was in college. I was in college. Yeah. Like, what's wrong with you? Why can't you hit like him? So I was like, I I took some offense to that, and I was like, all right, I gotta I gotta make some changes here this year. So I win, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I did do it that year, hit 10 homers. I I came, yeah, I came back that year. I was like, all right, I gotta step up my game here. And got drafted by the and got drafted that year, right? Well, I got drafted my senior year.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

That's right. That's right. Yeah. So when you were um when you were playing in high school, when did you kind of decide that um that this was you were gonna take it to the next level and you were gonna pursue college? Like at what point did you realize you were wanting to go pursue your baseball career farther?

SPEAKER_02 7:37

So, you know, honestly, like it was just always what we were gonna do. It wasn't really a question. Like we were when we were kids little, like we were just like, oh yeah, we just we're gonna play, we're gonna be in the major leagues. I mean, that was really it. Like, it wasn't even a thought, it was just this is what we're gonna do. Um, and so yeah, there was never really like, oh, I want to, it was just always there. I'll I'll say this for me what happened was I my eyes were opened to sort of more a more realistic view of myself as a player. Okay. When I was like younger, um, I'll say freshman, even probably sophomore, um my my view of myself as a player was was pretty high. I'll say like expectation-wise, like where I'm gonna go in college. Like I was thinking like elite division one, high hope. Yeah, you know, like, oh yeah, like I wanted to play at Clemson. That was where I wanted to go. And so, like, that was in my mind. I'm gonna go to Clemson. Well, I think around probably my junior year in high school, I started to get involved. It's a lot different when I was in school than it is now. Like, no, you didn't recruit freshmen in high school, like that wasn't even a thing. And so when you're a junior in high school, that's when I started like going to pro workouts, going to different like showcases and stuff. And that's when I was like, oh man, whoa, like these guys are good, you know? And so I just kind of like I was like, okay, I'm not I'm not as good as that guy, and he um is going to Florida. You know what I mean? Like in the components to like real world talent. Yeah, yeah. Like I can remember, so when when I got recruited in high school, so that you you start you start getting letters like when you're probably a sophomore, and then like really you're not you're the first time you're allowed you were allowed to get phone calls was like June 1st after your junior year. That was like you weren't allowed, nobody was even allowed to talk to you. And so I remember that. I remember getting calls from different schools, and some of them bigger and some of them not. Um, but that summer I played in two pretty big showcases. Um, one was called the East Coast Professional Showcase, and the other one was called the Area Code Games out in California. I don't even know if they still exist anymore.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

But kind of what the game still does. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Yeah. And so you kind of, I think the way it worked was some some scout, scouting, a scout in your area had to like basically say, hey, this guy can be on, should be on this team or whatever. So there was probably multiple teams from Florida, but I was on a Florida team, and I'm pretty sure we were the Rays. And so it was like Rays Scout that was with us, and they were like coaching our team. But on our team, I can't remember all the guys' names, but I will tell you a few. Zach Grinkey was one of them. He yeah, he pitched and played third base during the during that week. Um, Prince Fielder was another one. Um and then there was another guy, Denard Spann, who played in the big leagues for a while. And the I didn't like no know these guys. The only reason they were big league, like I remember them then, and then I'm like, oh, they're on TV. I'm watching them up here, you know? And then um, yeah, so I think for me that that week, I so I played there and I played in area code games. I don't think I got a hit for like two weeks there, like in either place.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

You've just seen the best pitching you've ever seen in your life.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Yeah, I I just we're swinging with Wood Bats. I could play defense, like I was a good infielder, and I I always was a good infielder, and so like that I I handled myself defensively, but like yeah, I had no chance, just zero chance at the plate whatsoever. And so um that's when I like really kind of shifted gears as far as like college, and so the Citadel had already been recruiting me. Um, but but honestly, my like my dad went there, and when they started recruiting me, I was like, Dad, tell him I'm not coming. Like I'm not going where my dad goes.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

I'm not going. Like you've a typical response about it. Oh, a teenage a teenager not go wanting to go where his dad goes?

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, you can tell him I'm not, you know, forget about it. Well, well, after that week, um, they called me, or uh maybe they maybe they talked to somebody that was at the game, um, one of the games, and and my tune changed. I said, you know what, I'm interested. I I'll talk to him. I was like, I was like, I'm not as good as these guys, so yeah, I'll I will have a conversation. And so so honestly, that's kind of really how how all that came about. Um, I still really wanted to get drafted out of high school, but I I didn't. I wasn't I wasn't honestly I wasn't big enough, strong enough, and fast enough. Um, as an infielder, especially, like I just wasn't fast enough. And one of the things that so Chris Lamonis was the recruiting coordinator at the Citadel, and he coached at Mississippi State, um, won a World Series at, I'm pretty sure, at Mississippi State. Uh so he was a great recruiter, honestly. And um, he he went on recruited at Louisville for a while um before he was at Mississippi State. Uh and he would send me, um I can remember getting these programs in the mail, like the Citadel team, and he would just put these little post-it notes on different players and like tell me stuff about them. And and the shortstop that they had at the time, he was a senior, he was gonna graduate, I was gonna come in. Like it that's how the timing was. So it he said when he came, like he wrote a little note. When he came in as a freshman, he ran like a 7360. As a senior, he ran a 6760. And so for me, that was everything. Because I that was what in my mind, that was what was keeping me out of professional baseball. I wasn't fast enough. And so, like, that was like I was like, if they can do that, I'm in. Like, that's what I'm about. I want to get faster, I want to be a better player. And so, really, for me, the Citadel was two things. One, they offered me a good scholarship. I guess a few things. They offered me a good scholarship, but they were in my mind the place that I needed to be to make it to the major leagues. Like that was my goal. Like, I'm gonna play major league baseball, or I'm gonna coach. And so that was the place I needed to go. And then the third thing was when they recruited me and I sat down with the head coach, they said, Hey, here's what we're gonna offer you for the scholarship, and you are our shortstop. It's your job, like it's yours to lose. We are not recruiting anybody else. You are our shortstop, that's our plan. And so for me, that was like, okay, I'm in. Like to have the the the coach say that, and the Citrus a smaller school, and so in the bigger schools, you always have the danger of like they can bring in other guys, you know what I mean? Like, it just it just seemed like a good fit for me. You knew this coach wasn't lying to you when he told you that. Yeah, like I trusted them. And uh I I liked I liked the coaches. Um, I I I had confidence in them, uh, especially their like honestly, like their strength program, that was for me. I was like, I'm here to get after it. You point me in the direction and let's do it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

And and so the Citadel being a military institute, right? I mean, most most guys who go to that school, they graduate as an officer and then go to the military, correct?

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Well, it's not an academy, so you don't have to. So I would say actually opposite, most guys don't go in the military. Um but some people do. And maybe, maybe I'm not exactly right on that, but like, yeah, I would say probably most people don't go in the military. It's just there's a lot of tradition there. Yeah, you you you know, um, a lot of guys are there because of athletics. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Yeah. I mean, was it a pretty big culture shock going to South Carolina, being at, you know, wearing a military uniform every day, going to class, and then like doing baseball after?

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Yeah, I mean, it was different. Well, plus, so when you're a freshman at a military school, it's not really that much fun. Because they they have the fourth, it's called the fourth class system, like plebe system. So, I mean, technically they're not hazing you, you know. So if anybody's ever listening to this, they're not like harming you, but it's just part of the deal. Like they're yelling at you, you could only say, Sir, yes, sir, sir, no, sir, sir, no excuse, sir. Um, it's just a totally different, like, I can't if you it's hard to even describe for someone who has not gone to a college like that. And so, as a as a freshman going into that, I knew because of my dad. Um, but like I heard stories about guys I had no idea. They're like, I had no idea this was what I was getting myself into. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And so yeah, you just like we just I honestly I lived in the locker room. You didn't go to the but to the barracks because if if you were there and you didn't have to be, someone would be yelling at you, making you do push-ups, like just stupid stuff. So you just I lived in the clubhouse, um, I lived in the batting cage, and then I went back to the barracks at night when it was study time and they couldn't mess with you, and I just did my homework and then went to bed. So it was like for me, it was like just focused. Yeah, I just I I had nothing else to do um besides go to class, go to the cages, and just like do my homework. So so that was like the other thing for me hitting offensively. I needed to be a better hitter. And so yeah, I I lived in the cage, I lived in the weight room basically, and that's what I did.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Wow, and do you have to live on campus all four years?

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Okay, yeah. It's a it's like it's a it's not it's not like dorms, it's a barracks. Like I can't they lock the gates at night, like you are locked in. Yeah, it's uh it's it's hard to even get your mind around.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

So what happened? Uh so walk us through your college career at the Citadel all the way up to you getting drafted.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Yeah, so um played, I've started all four years, so that was they were faithful to that. And and and I would say, like, by God's grace, when I came in as a freshman that fall, I played I played really good shortstop. Like, so that was what they said. Like, look, I mean, it's your job, but obviously you gotta do it, you know. And so I can't remember how I hit at all in the fall, but I played a really good defense, and so I, you know, I earned the spot um that spring and uh started every game. Um really I I started every game at shortstop all four years, except I had like a little stretch my sophomore year where I was hurt. Um and so yeah, just was out that little bit of time, but actually wound up hitting um 300 my freshman year. Um, and I would say in college I learned how to hit. Uh Lamonas helped me, my dad helped me, just being in the cages helped me, other players, like just being around other players, like just kind of learning, learning what to do, learning more of an approach, um and learning more who I was as a hitter and just kind of like what I needed to do. Uh, learning that I was really good at hitting fastballs, but nothing else. And so, like my freshman year, I probably hit ninth all year. And so, like, crowded the plate. I'm like, they're gonna give me a fastball at some point, just don't miss it, you know? And uh you just get a lot of fastballs, and so it's easier to hit. Um didn't hit as well my sophomore year. Um kind of, I would say probably struggled a little bit that year. That's when I was hurt a little bit that year. Um uh I'm trying to remember. We had a good year, my sophomore year as a team. We won our our conference tournament, got to play in regionals that year. We had a really we had a really good pitching staff. Our number one um got drafted pretty high that year. So our our first baseman, I think he led the country in walks at one point. Like he was just getting intentionally walked because he was just hitting homers like crazy. So we had a really good team that year. So we we didn't advance out of the regionals, but got to play in a regional um at the University of South Carolina. That was right before they were like a powerhouse, too. That was like on their way up. Um they were good then, they were competing, but they won like three, I think three World Series right after that. Um and then my junior year, that's when I really like that. Was my best year um by far. Uh I hit 10 home runs, hit 300. Um, and yeah, I just I think a couple things I learned how to be um honestly like try to hit home runs a little bit, you know. Like when I got into counts, I was like, all right, I'm going deep right here. You know, I just kind of had that mindset. Yeah. And I still had enough. I there was enough guys around me. Um, and I hadn't really proved myself yet. So I was getting a lot of, you know, in a 2-0 count, I was getting a fastball to hit, you know, and so I was able to do some do some damage. And then my senior year didn't hit as well, hit okay. Um, but uh yeah, I would have, you know, looking back, I would I wish I could do some things different my senior year. Um I think I I was putting a lot of pressure on myself to to get make sure I got drafted. Cause I had a really good year my junior year and I didn't get drafted, and then um yeah. So So uh but we we also we didn't win the state tournament again, or not state tournament, our conference tournament, but we played in the finals our senior year. So we had a really good year, but we just lost at the end. Um but uh yeah, thankfully, you know, just had the opportunity to to go, you know, got drafted by the Cubs in the 24th round. And so had the opportunity to, yeah, at least get to play a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

So I have like two follow-up questions. Um one, uh, when you're in the summer training, um, are you playing summer ball somewhere or are you going back home training with you know with your family, or are you staying with the guys up at the Citadel? What kind of what what was your summers like?

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Yeah, I played summer ball and and guys still do, um, for sure, but I played so after my freshman year, um I went up to Maine with our second baseman and our third baseman. Oh, but we all went together. Yeah, yeah. We played, we were the Sanford Mainers, and so it was like our infield, and then our first baseman was from Georgia Southern, which was in our conference. So we had fun together, and it was fun to get to know him as we competed against each other, you know, over the next few years. And then my next two summers, I played in the Coastal Plains League um for the Peninsula Pilots, and uh I just honestly I had so much fun playing there after my sophomore year. I went back after my junior year, and if I think that was probably the most fun baseball I played in my whole life. Um probably more so after my junior year, but definitely those two years. Like I think after my junior year, probably more because I was still hitting good that I still like had it going, and it was just so much fun. There wasn't pressure. Like if you won, I mean you wanted to win, but if you didn't win, it wasn't like you're not trying to win the conference. It just it was just a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Yeah, I played um I played in Sanford, Maine, too. I played it for the main, I played for the Moose um when I was uh 2016, and I I still talk to those guys. Like it was probably my favorite summer of all time. And then um, like you said, there's really no pressure, honestly. Yeah, sometimes like you're having so much fun, and the game is the most inconvenient part of it. Like you're like, I gotta go play a game real quick on a Thursday afternoon. Yeah, yeah, you know, but um no, it's it's really fun. It's like it's a great way to also like sharpen your skills, you know, without having the stress of your coach looking over your back shoulder, and you get to see like the the that any CBL league, like get some top talent, and you're right around the corner from the Cape as well. So it's pretty cool. And then being in the coastal plains league, I mean like it's I kind of describe that as uh just prime time to play baseball in those small towns, and it's like beautiful, cool night, it's like 75 degrees, and you can smell like the concession stands. It's literally like the epitome of what I think baseball should be about.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Yeah, it's like old school, like old school minor league baseball, like yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I don't know if they did this when you played, but I remember this. So they would have different places, they would have a K-man, and I'm pretty sure this was in summer ball, not in minor leagues. And so you would show up, and like before the game, they would say, Tonight's K-Man is Matt Matuya. If Matt strikes out, everybody taco or something like that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And like I can remember being like the K-man and everybody's like, strike him out, you know. And if you strike out, everyone's really getting to it. Oh, yeah, everybody. And it's you're the visiting team, they don't do it to the home team, it's a visiting team.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

So you take a random person in the lineup and they're like, if you if you strike out, everyone gets like free popcorn or free snow cut or something. And I mean, it's just like one person hatred.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

But Jordan, you played with uh with the team from Missouri, right? Yeah, the St.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Joseph Mustangs. Okay, okay. So if when I played for them, they they would do stuff like that all the time. Like, or I don't think they singled anybody out. I think if they're like if the pitcher gets like three strikeouts, so like after the guy has like two K's, like or if he has two K's on the team, the third pitcher, like a free bag of peanuts, and everyone's going nuts for it.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

They got soft and they didn't single people out. Hey man, it's it's way better to get singled out and have a few.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Oh, I know, because like in the NECB, I'm pretty sure they did that, and then we would even our own teammates would like be like we hope you strike out. Like give people what they want. Yeah, yeah. No, it's funny. And then uh my second um follow-up question was leading up to the draft, um, did you know you were going to get drafted? Was there any sort of talk? Did you have an agent or did you just kind of go in there blind?

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Yeah, no, I I um honestly I really didn't know at all. I didn't have as good a year, my senior year. Like, so I was definitely putting pressure on myself a lot. Like it was just by the end of the year, I like turned it on. I was able to to like kind of get my mind right and just like mentally push past it. Yeah, just compete again. Um but uh no, I I didn't have I didn't have an agent, nobody like nobody reached out to me. I I I was hopeful to be drafted because I was a you know, I was a pretty good player, so I was hopeful. I was a yeah, I think hopeful is the best way. Um but yeah, I I was not expecting to be drafted on the first day, I'll say. But I remember my dad, so Mitch used to come to my dad's baseball camp here, and so I remember being at base at his baseball camp. And so at that point there was no smartphones, but I had my cell phone in my pocket, and you know, just was like, maybe they'll, you know, I want to keep my phone with me, maybe someone will call me. Um and then nobody called day one, which I wasn't like I wasn't really expecting, you know what I mean? Um, and then the second day I had my phone on me, and honestly, I was really like disappointed by the end of camp that day. It was, you know, we got done at noon or whatever. And I was driving home um really disappointed, like thinking I was done, like I'm done. That's it, you know? And then um my phone rang and it was my brother John, and I I answered, like, just you know, he was I figured he was just checking in on me and he's like, dude, you just got drafted. I was like, I was like, what? No, I didn't. Nobody like what are you talking about? He's like, Yeah, man, the Cubs just took you. I was like, what? And so no clue. I didn't even know I got drafted and until he called me, and then I didn't get a phone call. This is till like seven o'clock that night. Like was he watching on TV at home? Like I don't know if he had like on his computer or what or listening on the radio or something. Yeah, somehow he was already so John was already in professional baseball. Gotcha. Yeah, he got drafted out of high school. He signed out of high school, he was a 10th rounder out of high school, and so he was already in professional baseball the year before I was in. Um yeah, and so yeah, he called me, and then that night they called me. The scout's name was Antonio Grissom. He's like, hey, you know, congratulations, we took you in the 24th round. Um, and so come to find out, the same scout also drafted the cups first rounder that year, and we were teammates. So I think like all their focus was on like the first rounder. And they're like, ah, that's 24th rounder. Like, we'll talk to him when we when we get some free time, you know. And so yeah, he called me. He's like, So we're gonna offer you a thousand dollars in whatever school you have left. We'll pay for school. I said, Well, I graduated. So I was like, is there anything else? He goes, I'll get back to you. He called me back, like yeah, he called me back maybe half an hour later. He's like, Well, we're gonna offer you a thousand dollars. I was like, sounds good to me. So there was no additional offer on the table, no master's degree offer, nothing like that. Take it or leave it. I said, That'll be that sounds fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

So fantastic, I'll take it. Yeah. Where'd they have you uh where did they have you um report in and when how far out did you have to like get your stuff together and go?

SPEAKER_02 30:26

Yeah, I mean, maybe like a week, you know. I I don't know how it was probably like a week. And then I went to Arizona. So the Cubs Spring Training Complex is in Mesa, Arizona. They've moved, it's newer place now. Um I I've never seen the new place, but the old place was in Mesa, Arizona. Um and all right, Matt.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

So just picking up where we left off, man, like you arrived to Mesa, Arizona for spring training, correct? And are you in a rookie instructional ball? Like how like where are you starting off whenever you're first with the Cubs?

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Yeah, so you get out there and there's just a bunch of rookie league guys that have been there, like a bunch of mostly like high school draft picks that have been there for a year or whatever, and then kind of the draft picks start showing up. Well, I went from there to to Boise, Idaho. It's called short season A ball. And so in that league, you have you have a lot of like college draft guys. If you're high school draft guy, unless you're like just elite, you're going to like rookie ball, which is like at the would be out in Arizona. But so so short season A was like mostly like mostly college draft guys or high school guys that had already been there for a few years, and like they've done they've gone through rookie ball, and this is like their next step, short season A ball. Um, and so yeah, we were in Boise, Idaho, uh it was the Northwest League, traveled around up there. We were the only team in Idaho, but Washington, Oregon, one team in Canada. Um uh Tim Linsicum pitched in that league that year. Um yeah, we had on my team the only two big leaguers that I know of that I can remember for sure. Actually, three. Tyler Colvin was our first rounder, he played in the big leagues. Jeff Samarja was like the biggest name, but not really because of baseball, because of football.

SPEAKER_03 32:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Um, being a receiver at Notre Dame, but he pitched in the big leagues for a while, and then a guy named Russ Kansler, um, he he played in the big leagues too. And there might have been, oh, yeah, Steve Clevinger made it. Like, there's a couple other guys. Um, but uh nobody like Samarja is probably the biggest name. Um but yeah, so got to play there, and kind of for me, it was the first time in my career that I was like not the guy, you know. Like, yeah, I would play one day and then I wouldn't play again for a couple days, and that was like really hard for me. Um just to kind of have to deal with that. I and I was I think I started out hitting like oh like oh 72 or something, like just 0 for like a lot. And so finally at one point I just had to like make a mental shift and say, let's I gotta just I gotta start playing baseball again. And just like I did in college, like, hey, let's just get after it. And so just kind of brought my style of baseball into the minor leagues, which was how I learned how to play at the Citadel. We always played, you know, long, hard, and fast. Like we were gonna play hard, we were gonna, you know, we're gonna be scrappy, we weren't the most talented, but we're gonna beat you somehow. And so yeah, just kind of was able to get that mentality. I was like a competitor, so wanted to win, um, had some fight in me, you know, just for that stuff. And so kind of worked my way into being the everyday shortstop that year, just through some different circumstances. And um just yeah, God was very gracious because I was a nobody. I was a senior side, like they didn't have to give me any opportunity. I was just a guy, right? And so, but just kind of was able to, by God's grace, like just have some opportunities and then wound up playing pretty good. And so kind of got like a little bit on the radar. And then um, yeah, just again, the Lord just opened up some doors in the organization. I got to I was like again, I was like a nobody, but just I got it just worked out where I got to go to instructional league, and that was like I think big for me because it's like a really small group of guys, and it's really all the prospects. I was not one of them, but it again, just God's grace. He opened up the door, I got to go. Um and then that next year um that next spring, I had a pretty strong spring, and that kind of really sort of I'll say put me on the map a little bit with the Cubs um and got to go. I I jumped from from short season A straight to high A. And I was like really I was the everyday um starter at shortstop. I was the guy, like you're gonna be the shortstop. Wow, and so started out pretty strong. Um, but I so it's this this thing in sports, and I don't know like who will listen to these, but like sports is so it's so mental. Like it's it's so much in between the ears. Um, because when you get into higher levels of of competition, like skill wise, there's not that much diff difference. I mean, there is like for some guys, but like I could go, I played in some big league games at spring training, and I could go out there and play, and you would nobody would know that you weren't a big leaguer except you're wearing like number 87 or something like that. Um hockey number. So yeah. So like skill-wise, it's it's all like comparable, but it's it's it's what happens in between the ears. It's like how you can, you know, stay focused, stay confident, stay mature, all those things. And I always when I was good mentally, I was a pretty good player. When I when I faltered mentally, I I wasn't I wasn't talented enough for just my talent to just get me through. Um, and so yeah, I think scuffled a little bit, but had a pretty strong first half, wound up making an all-star team, like just kind of like on the map a little bit, like, oh wow, this guy, like he can play a little bit. Yeah, you know, and then really second half I kind of tanked a lot. Um and so, you know, the next springs training went back, um, kind of not knowing what was gonna happen, uh, but had an opportunity to play again. But this time now I was like, I wasn't the guy anymore because I didn't when you're not a when you're not a high draft pick, it's all performance.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

You don't give any, you don't get any second chance.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

Like, hey, you're hitting 300, you're scoring runs, you're you're a winner, you're our guy, but as soon as you drop, we're not gonna give you any more chances. There's another guy, yeah. There's there's plenty, we we got guys that we've invested millions of dollars into that's not you. Yeah, a thousand dollars in you.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you were you have a great return on a thousand dollars. Yeah, you got two million in the bank. Great ROI.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I that was so 2007, 2008, I wasn't a guy. So I started in high A again, but I think I was here for about a month and then got to go to double A. And then again, like I got to double A and it was like, hey, here's an opportunity, you gotta play, you know? And um started started out okay, and then just kind of faltered. And I just think back, like just mentally, if I was, you know, if I could do it again, I would have just been, I would have thought different about it. Just mentally, I would have been trying to be tougher. Um, I was really hard on myself, and I needed to be more like just think about things more like I can tell you, like that year in double A, um I the the first really, really tough at bat I rem I remember having was against Clayton Kershaw. And so and and I like he dominated me, and I wasn't able, like I felt like I would beat myself up. And I think looking back, if I would go, wait a minute, this guy's a Cy Young, a future Cy Young winner. Yeah, like at least on track. He's dominating everybody, yeah. He's dominating, but I wasn't able to do that. And then um, yeah, like another guy we faced was David Price. Um and I can remember like striking out. I had three the hat trick against him for sure. Um so yeah, double A was it was good, it was tough, tough. Like I just didn't hit I hit like 220. Um and I was like a I was a defensive guy, so we had National League rules. You no, I think that next year is when I saw you out in Texas. It was in triple A.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

I did go catch you play with the Smokies in Mobile, Alabama. Yeah, I remember that.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Yeah, that was right, yeah. So, but yeah, so I got to play a lot because like double switch and stuff that someone would pinch hit for the pitcher, then I'd go play third base or go play second or whatever. Um, yeah, and then the next year just I went back to spring training, but I was done. Like I went all the way through spring every day expecting them to release me, and I made it all the way through to like the last week, and I was like, Oh wow, I guess I'm gonna get another chance to play. And I was in a hitters meeting, and then um the AAA manager that year, he peeked his head in the door and he looked at me and he he gave me the hey, come here, I want to talk to you. And so they sat me down, they're like, Hey man, you know, you're done playing, but they wanted me to start coaching, and so that's really kind of how I transitioned. Just so yeah, I just had enough of a baseball mind and baseball heart that they were like, hey, we want you to stay around and start coaching. And so for me, I was like, Yeah, I yeah, you felt the right. Um I I see it, I'm ready to start coaching.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

So when you when you were uh when you were playing um in the minors, what was uh one thing, obviously, besides raw talent in the players that was different from college than it was in the pros?

SPEAKER_02 39:47

So yeah, I mean, definitely just like like talent for sure. Like guys, I mean, there's just some dudes like you know, yeah, there's dudes that throw hard, there's dudes that are just really good. So that's one. But I think like you know, everybody's like everybody talks about the pitching from like single A to double A. And we faced, I mean, some really good arms in high A. And there were obviously really good arms in double A. Um, but for me, the biggest difference was everybody on the field was good. Like there was no way everybody was good. Like I can remember at one point, like probably not getting a hit for like I feel it was like two weeks, and then like finally squaring up a ball and like hitting it in the gap a little bit, and then all of a sudden, like this guy comes out of nowhere and just catches it, and you're just like, Are you kidding me? No fun. So it's just yeah, just everybody on the field at that point is a really good player, and so it's just like in the big leagues, you don't get any easy hits, like you gotta you gotta hit, you know, everybody's good. The guys are gonna die if you're gonna make plays.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

So no, I couldn't I couldn't agree more. And then um, what's one thing that you learned in the pros that made you uh, or what's one thing you learned in the minor league system that made you a better player?

SPEAKER_02 41:08

Um that made me a better player. Um I think defensively I got better. Like I learned a lot about defense, but honestly, I think for me, I needed to kind of where I messed up was I needed to keep more of my mindset that I had in college. I got away from that a little bit, especially in double A. Um, and I wasn't as good of a player. I wasn't, I'm not your I wasn't your typical like talent guy. Like if if if I was gonna be in the big leagues, I was gonna be bunning for a hit, I was gonna be just like a pain in the neck kind of guy. Scrapper, yeah. Yeah, and so I kind of probably got away from that a little bit um it at the end in double A. And I so if I had to go back, I would go back to that. But defensively, I got I learned a lot, got a lot better.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

From your coaches, from your coaches or just for other players?

SPEAKER_02 42:01

From from one coach in particular. Um he was our he was our infield coordinator, and then he was the manager that I went um with to AAA. And um he he's actually, I don't know where he is now, but he spent quite a quite a few years with the Orioles in the big leagues and then with the Phillies in the big leagues as their infield big league coach. Oh, wow. So yeah, he's a pretty solid guy. So yeah, with that.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

What were some of the biggest um offensive adjustments you made in professional baseball and what separated the best hitters from the worst hitters from an approach standpoint?

SPEAKER_02 42:39

Um well, I can tell you this. I think I think I learned more about approach when I was coaching at Florida State than I ever did as a player. I didn't I I kind of scuffled a little bit. So what happened I think for me was in the minor leagues, guys are especially in double A, like your pitchers are better, they can throw all their pitches for strikes, they'll throw it at different, you know, like you get in a 2-0 count, they're gonna they might throw a change up, you know. And I'm looking backwards, I'm guessing fastball and they're throwing a change up, you know, or yeah. So just kind of like, hey man, it's not fair. Like you're already good, like you can't do that, you know. Um so yeah, I think it wasn't I I learned more about approach when I was done playing, and I was able to like take a step back, and I didn't have the pressure of like trying to make it, and so I I I would say I didn't have a great approach when I played, especially like yeah, I didn't probably have a great approach when I played, but I learned at Florida State, and Mike Martin Jr. Um was the hitting coach, and and and of course his dad, 11, just their whole system, their whole offensive system. And They had a a plan as a as a team, uh an offensive uh approach plan, and I watched us uh beat teams because of our approach as a coach. Like I was coaching first base base, and I'm watching us win games because we were locked in, we would not chase pitches out of the zone, we were getting ourselves in good counts, you know what I mean? And so that's when like I started coaching. I learned, oh, this is how good hitters hit. Yeah. You know, they they they're not swinging at pitches they're they shouldn't swing at, they're not chasing. When when pitches are in the zone, they're doing damage, you know. And so that's I would say I learned more there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

That's awesome. And now when you were with Iowa and AAA, you were like, you took on kind of like a player coach role, correct? Like you would play some games, coach others.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

Yeah. So really, like, so they that was the year they they're like, hey man, you're done. But you know, Bobby wanted me to go with them to AAA and to be a player coach and start coaching, like learn how to coach, learn how to manage, you know. And so, um, yeah, so what they do is is and this happens especially at AAA level. Guys have been playing for a while, teams want to get them into coaching, and so they kind of you create this player coach kind of role. So with like on paper, you're you're technically still a player. Like you're you're a player, you're still a player for the Cubs, but you're not playing, you're just coaching. And so what they do is they put you on the disabled list with phantom injuries, like you just exist, you just exist on the on the roster as a on the disabled list. And and honestly, like I would just throw BP every day, hit fungos, coach first base, like I got to write the lineups date. Like, he would just really like he brought me into coaching, like brought me into managing, talked to me about pitching changes, all that stuff. But then what would happen, especially in triple A, is you have you have the big league team has a need. And so they're like, hey man, we need a pitcher. So they would call up a guy, and then and then rather than like sending a guy from AA to AAA for like two days, they would just activate me. They would say, Hey, we're gonna activate Matt's roster, like put Matt on the roster spot, and that way, like if something happens, you you got a guy, you know, like you got a full roster. So that's how I got to play some was because like that's it, they would activate me, and then I would play. And there was one little stretch where I was playing like every day because we had some injuries, we had some guys go to the big leagues, and basically I was like, and I started hitting. I was like, dang, it's like maybe they're gonna let me play, you know? And so it didn't work out, but I was like, I started getting kind of hopeful. Like I hit a home run and I was like, oh man, maybe they're gonna like, but yeah, I I went back to the disabled list pretty quick. That's still that still sick, though. That's pretty cool. And and what led you to afford to stay? Like, how did that go down? So I wanted to be in college baseball. Um, my dad coached in college. I didn't want to be, I didn't want my career to be in minor league baseball. And this was before ministry, like I was gonna be a coach. And so I didn't want my career to be in minor league baseball. I wanted it to be in college baseball. So right away, like when I when I when they told me, hey, you're done playing, like I pretty much was like, all right, how do I get in college baseball? And so I just kind of started reaching out to people that I knew, like like my coach at the Citadel, and then like I had one of my really good buddies. Um he played at NC State, North Carolina State. And so I was like, hey, and and I we played against NC State when I was in college, and so I kind of like the coach knew me because you know, we competed against each other, and and so um, like his name was Matt Camp, the coach's name was Elliot Avent. And I just asked Matt, hey, could you reach out to Coach Avent for me and like could we connect? And so again, it's all different now, but to get into college coaching, really the the door is to be a volunteer assistant. And so I I was like, I want to be I want to be a volunteer assistant at like one of the top schools, like ACC SEC. And so I was going like because I wanted to keep going, you know. I was like, I gotta, if I'm gonna start at the bottom, at least I want to be at the top at the bottom, you know. Yeah, and so I reached out to Elliot Avent. Um, my dad had some connections. I would honestly, every school in the SEC and ACC, I just found a way to call the head coach. That's what I did. I literally called and I would leave messages. Hey, this is who I am. Um I would love to talk to you about coaching. You know, I I would love to be a volunteer assistant. And and honestly, 90% of them didn't call me back. Um, but a few people did. Um, and one of those people was Mike Martin. Um and so Elliot Avent also told me, like, you and so Elliot Avent helped me, the coach at NC State. He was like, here's what you need to do. Yeah, just call people, and then you need to try to work some camps. Like you let these coaches kind of know who you are. And so, so I was like, Well, okay. So I started when I would call these head coaches, I would say, Hey, do you have a camp? I could come work, whatever. So Mike Barton, he again, just God's grace, opening doors, he called me back and said, Hey, we would love to have you come work our camp. And so I went and worked Christmas camp. Um, you've you came to our Christmas camp one year, so or two years, but yeah, I worked the year before that and through batting practice, worked with infielders, and then like the week later, he called me and said, Hey, listen, we we're gonna need a new volunteer assistant next year. You know, are you interested? And there's no money, but I was like, Yeah, man, let's do it. It wasn't that simple, but basically that's what how's how it worked, you know.

SPEAKER_01 50:10

Lindsay and I prayed about it, and but yeah, so that was kind of the story. That's all, and so you got an apartment in Tallahassee and kind of you were you're there for two years, correct? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

So we were there. Um, and and really like when we started there, every intention to continue coaching in college baseball um and pursued, tried to pursue opportunities. Um, but again, by God's grace, he was closing doors now. And and honestly, like I won't go into detail now, but really that's when my everything shifted for me in terms of my life and my relationship with Jesus. And so that's when I would say I came to know Jesus, was in that period of time um as my savior. And so for me, like just everything changed. It wasn't about baseball anymore. Um, I was reading my Bible really and really pursuing Jesus and saying, Jesus, okay, what do you want for me to do?

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Um, and so that's when I really, yeah, made the strong like Christian background while you were playing like back in high school and college, or did you just kind of like come upon him more so when you were at Florida State?

SPEAKER_02 51:26

Yeah, so we I grew up, um, I grew up in the church, in the Roman Catholic Church, and so we were always in the church, but I never like my relationship with God was I'm a pretty good kid. I go to church. For the most part, I'm pretty good. And so when I'm not good, yeah, God will forgive me for those things, you know. And it wasn't until really like during when I was in the minor leagues and stuff that ultimately um I learned that actually I'm not very good. Actually, I'm a really big sinner. Sin became real for me, like really real in my life, and there was nothing I could do to fix it. I couldn't change it. Um, I couldn't make myself clean. And so that's when Christ came alive and and ultimately I came alive. And so was in church, but never like in a personal relationship with Jesus until yeah, and really it's like it's like this kind of a couple year period of time. But but at Florida State, Mike Martin, um, he was like like the first genuine Christian coach that I was ever around. And and the team, like it this the team was just different, and it because it started with him. Um, and uh, and so yeah, just the Lord used all that in in my life and my wife's life. And um, we had a really good church, we were out there, and and so yeah, just kind of all it all. I say the Lord brought us to Tallahassee by God's grace because it really was like that for me was the place where I discovered the grace of God in Jesus Christ. And so my life has been totally different ever since. I still love baseball, still enjoy being able to do it, love talking about it, it's fun. Um, but it just wasn't this like it no longer was the thing that was driving my life anymore. Um, Jesus was now driving my life, and so anyhow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

Understand. Right on, man. That's awesome. Yeah, and what what transpired from that point moving forward? I mean, like, what were the next steps that you took?

SPEAKER_02 53:28

Yeah, so just I mean, yeah, I mean, honestly, like anyhow, there's a there's this verse in the Bible, it's Ephesians chapter five, uh, verse 25. Jesus, well, Paul writes it, but it says, Um, husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church, he gave himself for her. And so that was the verse that really kind of for me, not kind of, it definitely made me realize I need to leave baseball. My wife, um she just wanted a husband who went to work, you know, at eight in the morning, came home at five o'clock in the evening. That's the life that that she wanted. And so I knew I couldn't do that in baseball. It wasn't gonna happen, but I could do that um somewhere else. I could do that doing something else. And so my father-in-law, he owned Ace Hardware stores, and he always said, Hey, if you ever want to come and work, I got a job for you. And so called him up and said, Hey, you know, would love to come and and go to work for you. And so came back here to Eustace. That's what brought us back here. Went to work for him, but but um honestly, my heart was different. And so I wanted my whole life, I wanted to coach baseball, and and now I wanted to coach for Jesus. Um, and so that's what led me to Fellowship Christian Athletes Ministry. I was like, hey, I want to use baseball to help people know Jesus. And then um ultimately, like, I mean, in in God's infinite wisdom, I get to be a coach every day. I have a team, they're my church, and I'm a pastor, and I get to be the coach, and so that's kind of how I see my life now. It's not doing baseball, but um, it's it's coaching people for Jesus, it's loving people and encouraging them and um pointing them to Christ. And then I still get to do some baseball on the side with I help dad's team some and um anyhow get to my my daughters are involved in sports, so we're we're we got our hands in it. I I still like to compete. I played pickleball pretty hard for a few years. Now I'm playing tennis pretty hard.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

So yeah, it makes it makes perfect sense. A lot of us athletes. In fact, I had a a guest on last week, Tyler Starks. You know, we were we were talking about when the show ends and the the dream, the initial dream that you've had since you were a kid ends. Like a lot of it, especially for a lot of athletes that don't make it or have that pretty like fairy tale ending, it's almost like an identity crisis. Like, what do you do when you're done? Like your whole identity was playing baseball, training for this dream, and then you don't know where you don't know where to go. And I think you also have met people that you know, some people turn to Jesus, some people turn to a hobby, some people turn to alcohol and drugs, right? Yeah, some people, you know, get lost in work, some people turn into like family, just they go straight to their family. Like there's there's good outcomes, but everyone has to navigate their own way and you know, push forward. Like uh, like for me, like this podcast and what we do at tier one performance is like the second calling, I would say, versus like you know, how I was as a player, and like I'm a completely different person now than when I was a player, you know, everyone is, but like you know, finding that calling card is really like I think for me, especially in my mid-20s, was like the hardest thing. Yeah, I didn't know what to do with myself. Like, I felt like I was a bum sleeping on my parents' couch. I was like trying to apply for jobs. I was like, you know, you go from like king of the castle at a beach house, like in a D1 school, doing whatever you want to like, wow, like life hits you hard after graduation. You know, so it's uh it's awesome that you were able to find that um find Christ through baseball. Like, so yeah, you know, it's not it's not for nothing, if anything, it's like a gigantic, big like build up to where you are now, and you have a whole life to show for it. So it's pretty, it's pretty impressive. And it's it's it's really awesome.

SPEAKER_01 57:15

Yeah, and I could be worded that too. It's like you're still coaching just in a different way. You're coaching God, not baseball as much, right? Like, I mean, yeah, you're such a talented coach, and now you're able to use that skill set in a different realm almost.

SPEAKER_02 57:28

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's you're just like you're you're as a coach, you're you're leading people, you're teaching people, right? You're uh encouraging people, you know, and and so now it's I mean, yeah, just I get to coach for Jesus. So yeah, it's fun. I love it. Um and uh yeah, and then get to do some baseball a little bit here and there on the side. So yeah, you know, it's always good to throw some batting practice every now and again.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

So you're so you're an athlete and uh so you're an athlete and a parent um of athletes now. Uh how is that switch going from coaching other people to coaching, you know, your own daughters? Um, what sports do they play? And uh how how is it being like a parent versus a coach versus the it's probably easier being a coach.

SPEAKER_02 58:18

My daughters are here. So um no, it's good. Like when they were little, um, my dad and I coached their softball team one year, which was a lot of fun, like just for dad and I to do that together when he was done coaching. And um, but so they're they are my older two, my oldest is 15, my middle is 13, and then my youngest is 10. My oldest and my middle are um they're into beach volleyball. So that's kind of like become they they they've played indoor too, but beach volleyball has become like okay, this is what we enjoy, is what we're gonna do. And so my oldest daughter now, she would like to play in college. So she's kind of had that like, okay, I would like to try to do this in college. The realization. And so, yeah, so we're trying to navigate that with her. Um it's um it's hard as a parent slash coach because she doesn't want me to be the coach, she just wants me to be the parent. Right, right. And and so it's like just trying to navigate that, you know. I I mess it up a lot. Um, and sometimes I'll I'll do okay at it. Um and I think too, especially like with my older daughter, she's like learning, I think that okay, dad doesn't I don't know beach volleyball like her coaches do, but I know sports and I know I know how to work, I know what it takes to to go to the next level. And so she's starting to listen to me a little bit about that stuff. And it helps when her coach like reinforces the things I'm telling her, and he's saying it also. I'm like, hey, see he's telling you, like, I'm just look, I I see athletes, I know what you know, what it's gonna take. Um, but yeah, just I want to try to be encouraging and and I think too, like realizing in my own heart, there's some idolatry around being the best. And so I have to be careful, like that I don't push too hard for Emma and just like, hey, whatever, you know, whatever, however it works out, it's gonna be okay. You know, we're gonna trust the Lord in it and have fun. That's what I wanted to have fun. I wanted to compete, wanted to work hard, because those are all things that are important. Um, but you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

Yeah, and then one last question on my end. Uh, how is uh did you notice any difference, you know, aside from you know, coaching your own kid, but coaching girls compared to boys, you know, approaching it differently mentally when it comes to that, or is it relatively the same, depending is it more just like a personality thing, like depending on who you're I think it's I think it's a personality thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

Um yeah, I think it's a personality thing. I I coached them more when they were younger, like so it's just they're young. Um yeah, I will definitely say uh coaching little girls softball is harder than coaching little boys baseball. I believe it. And um, I yeah, um, but it's fun, they're fun. And uh I think I think in some ways, uh actually I remember when I was coaching at FSU, uh the softball coaches asked me to help their softball camp. And honestly, the girls listened a whole lot better than the than the guys. Um that was like the f my first ever experience. Yes, and I do remember that. Like they were like they were listening really good. Um and so yeah, I guess I don't I haven't really coached girls that much besides my daughters, but I still, I mean, I don't I wouldn't I don't really treat them any different, you know what I mean? Like I I want them to work, I want to push them a little bit, um than with than I would if if it's actually probably by God's grace I didn't have boys because I probably would have been like way worse. You know, if it was baseball. Yeah, if it was baseball, I'd probably have been way worse. So I'm it's I'm thankful that it's at least this kind of neutral thing that's beach volleyball. And so I can it's new ground for everybody, but I don't like I'm not really the guy, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:28

So but it's cool because it's like you know, in your in your girls' case, like their dad was a high-level Division I athlete and also played professional sports. So it's like they can't neglect the fact that you don't know what you're talking about, you know what I mean? It's like maybe you don't know as much about beach volleyball as baseball, but at the same time, it's like you know the work ethic, you know between the ears what it takes mentally to get to the next level. Plus you're still active.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:52

Yeah, and that's what I try to like like tell them. I'm like, especially Emma, because she's older now. I'm like, look, I didn't play this, but like I know, I know what it's like, you know, I know I know what you're I know what's going on in your head in some ways, you know. You know how it feels, I know what you have to do. I know when you're playing timid, it's not gonna work. You can't, you know, if you're if you're holding back at all, you can forget it. You know, you gotta get that out. So right.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:23

And I know I know your girls gotta be athletic because your wife Lindsay, she seems like a great athlete as well. I've seen her on the wakeboard on the lake, and I'm like, dang, she can do some some some crazy stuff on there.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

Yeah, yeah. The girls are good on the lake too. Um, me and my niece, my niece is really good. That's like her sport, wakeboarding. So she's uh yeah, she's 12. Um, and she's like like I don't think she's landed her backflip yet, but she's like backflipping on the wakeboard, and like, yeah, she's really good.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:53

Yeah, that's crazy. Well, me and Jordan, we're you know, we've gotten into pickleball recently, so we'll definitely come down to Florida and and and yeah, challenge you to some singles or doubles or whatever. We'll play for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:05

All right, come on. I haven't I I've I've totally shifted. I've got in the fall, I shifted over to tennis 100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

So we could play some tennis too. Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, baseball players can play anything, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:16

I would still play with you guys. I would probably be better now at singles and pickleball than doubles, but but yeah, we can make it happen. I'd be the old guy that would beat you guys, and you're and you just frustrate the mess out of you guys, and you're like, how is this guy beating me? I haven't got friends pop the froth. I'm not that old yet. But that's listen, the guys that I played pickleball with hard were all in their 60s. Yeah, and like I mean, they would beat me in singles, and I'm like, let's play again. I will I will stay here until I win, and I wouldn't win. I would just play and play and play. Yeah, there's a place it, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:49

It's there, it's their place.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:51

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:52

It's literally small ball for for for us baseball players. That's how I view it. Like moving small ball.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:57

Yeah, you have to, you definitely that's when I got better at pickleball. You have to learn the dink game. You gotta learn how to, you gotta learn how to get the soft game in there.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:07

Yeah, you can't just slam it all the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:09

It's not like power forehand. Yeah, they just return it. They're like, yep, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:14

And yeah, strength finesse with all those old guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:17

Yeah, and they beat you, and it's so frustrating. You're like, okay, I gotta learn how to play this game because I'm tired of losing.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:22

Yeah. It's that competitive in this. It's the only thing that gets you going, dude. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

Well, Matt, dude, thank you so much for taking the time, brother. And uh, it was great catching up with you. And please, man, we'd love to have you on again in the future. For sure. Um, and in person. We definitely owe you a visit in Florida soon because I I'd love to see everyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:41

Do it, yeah. Come down. We'll we'll definitely go play some some pickleball. Sounds good. Have you guys played in a tournament at all?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:48

We're about to. That's the thing. I take that back. Okay, I played in the company tournament for my for my company last year, and I came in third place with my doubles partner. He was a division one baseball guy. Wasn't me the guys that we lost. Against were literally pro pickleball players that play college tennis. So I was like, as long as we came in third out of 20 teams, like I was cool with I was cool with getting a podium spot.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

Yeah. I play with my family's pretty competitive against pickleball, but like we have like we have like ex Division I tennis players. So like I always lose to the tennis guys, and then it's like tennis, baseball, volleyball players, and then whoever. So I always lose to my one cousin Oscar, and he played college tennis, and he just manipulates the crap out of me. Yeah. Emotionally, physically, mentally. Just manipulates me. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:37

You can always tell the tennis guys, like when you go to watch pickleball, like the tennis guys are like, oh my gosh, that guy's gonna be good. Like you need you can just pick him out.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:45

You just know like when they hit a shot and it's like a short hop at your ankles, and like you can't even like you're you were footwork lazy, so you didn't you couldn't even get it over the net, and you're just like he did that on purpose. Yeah, and you can do it at any point, at any time. Yeah, and that's what gets me.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:00

Well, the tournaments are fun. I've I I will say that's one thing I missed about pickleball, like just the ease of being able to play tournaments and stuff. Um yeah, you guys should do it. You would have you would have fun. It's fun. Did you take some golds? No, no, I need I needed to stick with it more. Um I got uh second and third in some doubles, and then I I only did one single and I finished second. So I like that's kind of I don't know, like I just kind of toward after that was like last January, and then I kind of tapered off and just kind of I don't know, like got kind of bored with it. I was like, I need to you know mix it up, yeah, try something something different. So have your have your parents got into it yet? A little bit, but not like yeah, just a little bit. Yeah, not like um Lindsay and I were playing like pretty hard. We we might start again this summer, like with people from the church and stuff. We have more time. Yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:54

I'm trying to get my parents into it. My dad's like, I'm too competitive, I'll start yelling at people. And I was like, Yeah, you probably would.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:04

Yeah, you gotta find the right people. So that's what I realized. Like, you can't just like if you just go out just to random pick up pickleball, you can't. It's not as fun because you like you, like he will be more competitive, but you gotta find like I found like I there was probably a group of like eight of us, and you you could text three other guys and get a game, and we would play for two and a half hours hard, like yeah, just the four of us, and and you can compete and they're good, so you're not yelling, you know, like everybody's good, so you're not like fussing at someone for not being good. Yeah, right. That's when it was fun for me. If it wasn't fun when people weren't, you know, like, okay, I don't really want to play with this person, and then I'm really angry, but I can't admit it because social noise, and I want to throw my paddle into the fence over here. Yeah, and then Lindsay would be with me, and then I would do it sometimes, and then she would just shut down, and then like and then it was just not fun. So I was like, you know what? I need to find these guys that I can go compete with, and then play hard, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:12

That's true. I think I think the issue my dad's gonna run into is that he's gonna get his ego checked real quick because he's gonna get beat by these old ladies who've been playing for years, and he's gonna be like, wow, like I need to get in shape.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:24

Listen, that does happen. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

You're like, I just lost to a 60-year-old woman.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:33

Yeah. Like, I just got beat. Yeah, who's 95 pounds? He's got 30 years on me, and I just got crushed. So that's the other thing. Like, I'm like, okay, I'll just hit it, and then like they beat you, and you're like, I should have ripped it at you.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:52

Well, Matt, we appreciate you coming on, and uh can't wait to do this again.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:56

Yeah, we should have a whole pickleball thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:58

Yeah, we should. We should do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:02

Five, four, three, two performance.