In and Out Talks Remote Podcast 7: John Matulia

On this episode of the In & Out Talks Podcast, powered by Tier One Performance, we’re joined by John Matulia, a former professional baseball player whose journey through the game began as a high school draft pick and carried him all the way through the Minor League Baseball system.

Originally from Florida, John was drafted straight out of high school and spent years developing his craft as an outfielder and hitter, working his way from Rookie Ball to Triple-A. Along the way, he gained invaluable experience about the mental and physical demands of professional baseball, as well as what it truly takes to compete at the highest levels of the game.

In this episode, John shares stories from his professional career, lessons learned from climbing the minor league ladder, and his perspective on player development, perseverance, and the realities of chasing a lifelong dream. He also reflects on life after baseball, discussing the transition into a new career, balancing family life, and finding purpose beyond the diamond.

Today, John enjoys spending time with his wife and family while coaching his son and passing along the knowledge and values that baseball instilled in him.

🎙️ Tune in for a genuine conversation about professional baseball, fatherhood, life after sports, and the lasting impact the game has on shaping who we become.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Welcome back to the In N Out Talks podcast, powered by Tier One Performance Guys. Today's special guest, professional baseball athlete, uh John Matullia, drafted out of high school, and is uh a cousin of mine again. So, John, man, welcome to the show. Thanks for taking the time out of your day to be with us, man.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Man, so uh just for our viewers, just a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your upbringing. Um, you know, where'd you grow up and what kind of sports did you were you first introduced to?

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Sure, yeah. Uh bounced around quite a bit uh at a young age. My dad was a college baseball coach. Um actually he just retired, so he was a college baseball coach my entire life. The majority of our life was spent in a place called Eustace, Florida, which is Central Florida, north of Orlando, south of Gainesville. Um he started a baseball program there, became the athletic director, kind of ran the whole show. Um played all those sports growing up, and then really I'd say in middle school, watching my older brother in high school play, you know, varsity baseball, I kind of was like, that's what I want to do and want to be. And so I kind of stopped stopped playing everything else and really just played baseball. But played football, basketball, roller hockey, you know, the whole thing growing up.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

That's awesome, man. Our family comes from a great like athletic sports pedigree. Um, how was it, you know, growing up with an older brother, growing up with a father who was that much surrounded by baseball? I mean, like, did was it was there any other option for you, or was it just like from the start, you were just like, hey, let's do this.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

You know, it's funny having a 11-year-old son now to get to kind of see him and what he wants to do and and be. I can honestly tell you I loved baseball from day one. I'd have my mom drop me off at my dad's practices. I'd always want to throw, I'd always want to catch, and she would do a lot of it because he was playing and coaching. So I mean, since I was old enough to remember, you know, playing in little league, I that's all I ever really wanted to do.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Yeah. And I mean, were so WEX sports a thing yet, like throughout your middle school to high school years, or was it just all league ball for the most part?

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yeah, I mean, I I guess like travel ball is the is the coin phrase now. Um, I remember when I was moving to the big field, so I was probably 11 or 12. I was playing little league, and then also I was playing on the little field and the big field, and I played on an AAU team. So I guess that was probably late middle school, maybe seventh, eighth grade, to where I guess that it's considered travel ball now, but we just call it AAU, and we just, you know, you play regular just doubleheaders against other teams. It wasn't always this big tournament and you know, like it is now.

unknown 3:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

So it was more local, it wasn't like so much traveling out of state, things like that. Yeah, we had the benefit of being in Florida to where, you know, perfect game, like I can remember playing in perfect game tournaments, but that was two hours from the house. It wasn't flying across the country to do it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

You know, and like you mentioned, I think in Florida for baseball and football specifically, per capita, you have some of the best athletes, you know, um, along with maybe Texas and California, a little parts of Georgia, but uh we're kind of we're kind of spoiled in that regard where you don't have to travel far to see some of the best talent in the country. Right. Yeah. And you know, going into going into your high school years, um, you went to Eustace High School, your brother, older brother Matt, he was already there. Now um you started on Bar City your freshman year, correct? I did.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Yeah, I did. Um Chet Lemon was our coach. Chet played for the White Sox and for the the Tigers. He played 18 years in the big leagues, three-time all-star. He was a so to have him was pretty amazing. I don't remember how it worked out, but I don't know if he saw me playing somewhere, but I started kind of going out there as an eighth grader working with the team a little bit, and then you know, I had it was fortunate in the sense I never spent a day on JV. It was just like, hey, you're playing right field for us as a freshman. So it wasn't it was weird, it was it was not like hey, come make the team type thing. It's like you're our right fielder.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

So and at that point, I mean you were just doing golf and baseball, correct? Like in your high school years, or was it just baseball?

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Yeah, I mean, I played on the golf team, but that's you know, we were a small kind of country school and we would go play these private schools in Orlando. We were not golfers, it was a bunch of baseball guys that were just kind of messing around. Um, so I was on the golf team, but that was more for fun.

unknown 4:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

And playing, I mean, playing for Chet Lemon, man. I mean, like, how was that? Because a lot of guys don't get the experience in high school to play for a former big week all-star like that. I mean, what are some of the greatest things that you were able to take away and learn from him as a as a coach?

SPEAKER_00 5:04

I mean, I'd say the first thing that pops to mind that guy is a competitor. Like, he wanted to win at everything he did. It didn't matter. He worked, he was a hard worker and he made us work extremely hard. He didn't kind of get into the weeds of, you know, a hitting approach and X's and O's, I guess you could say. Um, he just was driven to teach us how to win and compete and do those different things, and we did. So, but I mean it was great playing for him. I love the guy, I love, you know, love playing for him.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

That's awesome because like my freshman year, I have a similar experience playing for Craig Viggio, and it was the same exact thing. Like, most competitive human being I've ever met in my life. He wasn't like, he was probably 5'10, you know, 190, wasn't like a physical specimen by any means, and just had a chip on his shoulder his whole life and just worked his tail off. And I mean, that's pretty much how he made it was just being so as competitive as he was. He wasn't gonna fail.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Yeah, and Chet knew the game. Chet knew the game really well. Um, but it's funny, you know, uh being in a in a coach's house, being around my dad my whole life, a lot of the guys that were not as good of players were better at the X's and O's and and those types of things, just because they they had to be. That's the only way that they could compete. It wasn't like they had the natural talent to just go out there and not think about it and just do it.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Correct. Correct. And throughout those high school years, I mean, like, would you have considered yourself like a five tool player? Like what was your how how'd you play your game?

SPEAKER_00 6:30

I mean, what was I mean I would say I had five tools, but not at you know, I forget what the scale was, two to eight or twenty to eighty, whatever it is. I I mean I I could do a little bit of everything, run, hit, throw, um, but mainly just kind of being good at all of them. I was kind of a I mean I hit three hole in high school, but you know, when I got into Pro Bowl, I was a leadoff kind of guy. And as I got bigger and stronger, I kind of moved into different places in the lineup, but kind of did everything. I mean, my my last year in triple A, I was back to playing center field again. The two years prior, I played right field because we had a guy that was going to be, you know, a big league center fielder. So just bounced around.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Um, now like throughout your high school years, I know like so was perfect game be starting to become a thing. Like, how how were guys getting recruited during that time period?

SPEAKER_00 7:23

So it was I played for Chet Lemon's Juice, so Chet's team. Um, I remember my sophomore junior year, I think we played over a hundred games one summer. And so, yeah, perfect game was it's not the animal it is now, it was really like, and again, hopefully, I don't know what relationship you have with them, but now it just seems like a bigger money grab. Whereas back then it was legitimately like these are the top 100 players in the country, and those were the top 100 players in the country. So I remember we played in a big one down in uh Jupiter where the Cardinals and the Marlins share facilities, and it was a perfect game USA tournament, and we ended up winning the whole tournament. I think there was a hundred and something teams in it, and Justin Upton, Andrew McCutcheon, like name the top whatever 18 guys out of that draft the year I got drafted. We ended up beating them to win the whole thing, so that was kind of cool. But yeah, so perfect game was different, but it was still around.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

What I think it's super value valuable to be on really good teams in those type of tournaments because you get to play more games in front of scouts. You get to play deeper into tournaments, and everybody's kind of funneling to your games, whereas like you're on a crappy team, you could be like a diamond in a rough, but maybe you get seen for one or two games max by like uh some scouts. So every player on our team got drafted. Every player on our team. Yeah, that's now um so in your like later in high school years, were you just eyeing to get drafted, or like were did you have like any kind of like thoughts of playing college ball, or was it like I want to get drafted?

SPEAKER_00 8:53

No, actually, I wanted to go play college and um I signed with the Gators. I was between LSU and Florida, and I really wanted to go to LSU, but mom and dad were like, hey, Florida's an hour and a half up the road, and they were gonna let me be a two-way player. I was gonna pitch during the week and play outfit on the weekends, and so that was intriguing to me. Um what ended up happening, I got drafted and I, you know, I got taken later than what I actually was projected to go, which was fine, no big deal. I like the organization that took me. And leaving the names out of it, the head coach, not the head coach, the recruiting guy from Florida reached out, hey, congrats, blah, blah, blah. And I kind of mentioned, like, hey, my family and I are talking about what's next. Am I gonna sign? Am I not gonna sign? And he he got like mad at me and kind of kind of showed out over the phone. I'm like, this is this is not right. I'm like, I've been dreaming of this my whole life to get drafted. And and so from that point, and there was no NIL, there's no jumping around at different schools, transfer portals, and all that, all that kind of stuff. And my dad was a college coach to where he'd been on the recruiting tour his whole life. And so he was like, if this is where you're you're signed to go, this is where you're gonna go. So I immediately like, I don't want to play for this guy. Like, I never saw that when he was trying to sign me, and now I kind of saw his true colors. So he in effect pushed me into signing. He doesn't know that. And the guy's still actually around the state today, but the way he handled that that whole thing is what made me end up signing with the Rays.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

So was he angry at you for considering to sign?

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Yeah. Oh, wow. Basically, like, I can't believe you're even considering this. Your mom and dad are educators, your dad's a college coach, like this is the worst decision you ever made, blah, you know, those kind of things. And and in fairness, there's a lot of merit and truth to that. To that, I think ultimately, if you ask me what would have been better for me baseball career-wise, it'd have been to go to Florida at the end of the day. I don't regret what I have done, but it would have been better to go develop, strength coach, eat well. I mean, minor leagues are tough.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

It's a grind, and I think that's why we see a lot more, a lot more guys going the college route now because of the facilities, the nutritionists, the strength programs. It's like you can almost be immobile ready nowadays after leaving like a power five SEC college. It's like you're one or two years in the minors and then you're in the big leagues if you're like a topic.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

They don't put you through the same grind because you know if you've played three years at Florida, played in the World Series, done all that different stuff, and you come and you, you know, you start in A-ball, hit good, they're gonna you you're gonna play how I guess that summer you play good in A-ball, you're gonna start in double-A the next year. You hit good, they're gonna move you up fast, you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Well, and it's years of just playing four games a week instead of seven games a week, so your body's not as maybe broken down, possibly.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

I would start camp. I'd start camp at 195, I'd come home at like 175.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Now, like, so you had to choose between like LSU or Florida, right? And I mean, like, maturity-wise, do you feel like you were ready to like get drafted? I mean, because you were drafted by the Tampa Bay Double Rays in the 10th round in 2005, correct?

SPEAKER_04 12:02

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

So walk us through that process. I mean, what was draft day like? I mean, what were the phone calls like that you had with scouts? And did like MLB scouts come over, talk with you and the family? I mean, what was that process like?

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Yep. Um, so I played a bunch of different like showcase teams. One of them was with the Devil Ray scout, Kevin Elfring was his name. So I actually played, I think it was like the East Coast showcase or whatever, and they just take a handful of guys from Florida, whatever, 20 guys from Florida, and we go stay up there and do that. So they they definitely had a lot of interest in me. Another stubborn, dumb thing I did was I told half the teams I didn't want to pitch. So I was a left-handed pitcher. A lot of a lot of teams wanted me to be a pitcher, which was another mistake. I should have been more open to pitching because there's a lot more longevity in pitching. Um it wasn't like like what you see on TV with football guys draft day like that. It was kind of low-key. I knew the kind of the top five teams that were interested in me, and I think I just got a phone call from that scout that I was on that team with, like, hey, we're gonna take you right now. So I wasn't like sitting around, I wasn't sitting around waiting for it. We were I was just having a normal, normal day.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

You had an idea of like what organization, I mean, like what were the five organizations that like were they small market teams, big market teams?

SPEAKER_00 13:20

I I the Braves were were one of them, the Tigers were one of them, the Rays were one of them. A lot of the area scouts that were always at my dad's game. Um so I'm trying to think who else. I mean, I I the Braves, the Tigers, and the Rays were kind of the three bigger teams that I knew had a lot of interest in me.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. And and from moving forward, I guess like from draft day, what proceeds? Like the contractual agreement, you basically getting ready to go to uh rookie ball. I mean, what was that like?

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yeah, um, most a lot of guys have agents, and so their agents handle the whole negotiation. Again, I we didn't kind of do that first time. Mom and dad didn't know any better, and they, you know, just if you tell this guy what we're gonna do, that's what we're gonna do. So that it didn't take very long to go negotiate, worked out the signing bonus, and then I mean, it was like three days later, I'm heading down to uh we were in St. Pete at the time. We moved to Port Charlotte, but we were in St. Pete, and there's a thing called extended spring training. So for all the guys that don't make it out of camp, they just basically do spring training for a couple more months. So I jumped right in, dropped me off at a hotel, and the next next morning I was, you know, at the spring training complex, you know, locker full of uniforms and figured out. Here you go. And that was with Princeton, that's where you started. So I so after uh so I was in that spring training for a couple weeks, and then Princeton, West Virginia was my first assignment, so that season started. That that was rookie ball. Um, and there was a ton of levels back when I don't even know what it's like now, but there were so many levels back when I played, but Princeton was my first assignment. And it was later in the summer or like later that fall? It was in the middle, it was the middle of the summer. So I it was June, I I would say, I think sometime in June. And you know, it's funny you show up to Princeton, West Virginia, and there's nothing there, and the stadium's like okay. And you know, here you you were gonna go to an SEC school, great stadium, facilities, all stuff. You're like, man, what did I do?

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Like these, like these stadiums are just very better than your high school stadium.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Uh I mean it's it's better than that, but it's not it's not an SEC stadium. I mean, once you get to double-A, I I shouldn't say that A-ball and up, the stadiums got really nice, but your first couple couple stops were kind of like what you see on like Bulburn or something, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah. Well, and so this initial spring training league and then also rookie ball, is it predominantly like high school guys and then like like guys who just got drafted out of college?

SPEAKER_00 15:47

It was a it was an assortment. So a lot of um Dominican, Cuban, you know, Venezuelan players, so those guys sign when they're super young. So a lot of those younger guys, and then you gotta have enough players to field teams and do stuff. So there was a lot of like fifth-year seniors that were never gonna get out of rookie or A-ball, but you had to have them to field the kind of team. And then where I went, once more guys started signing, like some guys held out for two months to get a bigger signing bonus. Then those guys would show up and they'd come straight to Princeton where I was, and then sometimes guys would you know get sent home because of that.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

So grind, to say the least, uh in uh minor existing.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

And so you're and you're busting everywhere the first few years, right? Until you get to AAA ball, you're you're pretty much busting everywhere, then you start taking points.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

And even even then you don't fly a ton just because they set it up to where you know there's the fields are fairly close. In AAA, they get two buses, so everyone has their own spot. You can sleep that kind of thing, but double-A, single A, it's not like that. But yeah, you're you're busting everywhere. I remember leaving Montgomery to come down here and play the Jacksonville Suns, so it's a long bus. I mean, probably a nine-hour bus ride. I get down here, we go straight to the field, and the manager calls me in the locker room or in his office and said, Hey, you're going to AAA. So I rode the entire bus down here. Then I got to jump on a flight in Jacksonville. I fly to Norfolk. I play three games in Norfolk, and they say, Hey, you're going back to AA. I fly back to Jacksonville, catch the bus, and ride it back to Montgomery. It's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

So needless to say, your food and your uh your nutrition and your sleep is not on point.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

I mean, it was great. It was great getting to go to Triple A. And then a couple weeks later I went back up there for the rest of the season, but that was that was tough. In fact, Sarah, um, we were married at the time, and she drove down from Atlanta. She flew, she flew into Jacksonville. I literally just got to see her at the airport. We drove around in a car at the airport, and then I flew out. That was it. High and bye.

unknown 17:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

That's crazy. So I think this is like the part of Pro Bowl that like everybody doesn't know about, right? Like it's the grind, it's it's behind closed doors, it's not romanticized whatsoever. It's like, dude, this is this is a grind.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Yeah, I mean, like, we went to the Jacksonville jumbo shrimp game, and you know, all the Keaton brought some buddies, whatever, they're all watching these guys play, and they don't realize that you know, they're about to get on a bus and drive eight hours to the next place that they're gonna play. You know, we're the ones getting there to enjoy it. And then, like, yeah, sleep, nutrition, whatever, my a tweaked hammy, or you just don't feel good, you know. I it's just one of those things.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

What was the biggest transition for you to make moving from like literally high school to professional baseball? I mean, like, obviously you've fit you faced some really high-level high school talent, but um, what was that like for you?

SPEAKER_00 18:50

I had a good rookie rookie year. So like it didn't seem a whole lot different. I think I was naive to the fact that like it was gonna get harder. I just like, oh, it's easy. They throw the ball over the plate, you hit it type thing. Um and then you have an off-season and you work on things and you lift and you do all that, and then you go to spring training. I mean I would say the biggest uh thing, and I mean it it makes sense because all these guys have the tools to play in the big leagues, they just don't all get there, is just the mental grind. And if if you're off a little bit and I'm hitting a leadoff, I'm gonna have five at bats. It's like you you gotta lock back in and figure out how to do it, you know what I mean? So I'd say mentally was the the the toughest thing, and then once pitchers can locate and and if they know you can't hit something, you're gonna get it every single time.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yeah, the scouting reports I'm sure are just next level at that at that point, right? Um from a hittings perspective, right? Like, how did your approach change going from level level to level? And like if so, I mean, like, what was your approach during Pro Bowl?

SPEAKER_00 19:58

I mean, just a stock approach would be, you know, I know who's who I'm facing that night, if it's a lefty, righty, whatever it is, I know what pitches they have and what they'll throw. And then early in the count, it's not even guessing. It's you know, people think guys, it's like you go to the game, these guys are throwing 98. How are you gonna hit that? Well, because they guess. I mean, they the approach is I'm looking middle of the way fastball early in the count. If I get it, I better do something with it. And then late in the count, you're gonna adjust to where, you know, you've got to kind of get on the plate, choke up, and look, you know, you know, look for anything really. Um, I remember it like yesterday. I was in double A and Desmond Jennings, who made it to the big leagues with us, who was our center fielder, he hit a ball, he smoked a ball over center field, and he came back in a dugout. I'm like, hey man, what was your approach right there? He's like, I was looking for the slider. I'm like, okay, well, that was a fastball. He goes, Yeah, I don't know. I was looking for the slider and just hit the fastball. So like the fact of the mat the fact of the matter is the guys that are really, really good, they're just good. They don't know what I mean. How do you look how do you look off-speed and adjust to a fastball? It doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

That's like that was my next question, dude. Is because like are most of these guys re- like are the are most of these guys who make it to the big league level, are they just crazy, like their reactionary skills are just next level?

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Is that what it is? Now I I can think of another guy named Stephen Voat. He's the manager for the uh I guess they're the Guardians, but the Indians. And he was a fifth-year senior, sign out of a school in California. That guy just had a great hitting approach. You know, he wasn't the best defensive guy. I mean, he wasn't even supposed to, he was a fifth-year senior, he wasn't supposed to make it, but every time he played he hit. And so he he did have an amazing approach. He was a great two strike hitter. I think the short answer is yes, like almost instinctive for the guys that make it.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Yeah. And I'm sure like the more you study guys, the more you study film, the access to what they have now, sure, maybe they're sitting certain pitches, like if If, like in the past, they remember facing this guy. Okay, I remember like the second pitch the at bat, he threw me a lefty on a lefty curveball or something like that. So maybe that's what you're looking for that particular at-bat, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:12

I'll give you an example. I this one I actually started hitting lefties really well. And then double A, they did it all the time. They would get ahead with a fastball. The next pitch was going to be a spinner. And if it was if it was coming at my shoulder, I would swing. I started hitting home runs off lefties when I realized they're going to get ahead, 0-1, here comes the slider, curveball, whatever it is. And if you can pick up the dot and it's coming at your shoulder, it's going to be a perfect pitch to hit. If it's not, you've got to take it, it's a ball. So I I think there's a lot more guessing or looking for specific pitches at those higher levels than people realize.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Yeah, no, I agree. Because hence the reason why you see guys taking fastballs right down the middle, because they weren't looking for that pitch that right. Correct. So that's why I try to explain to guys who are like, why didn't he swing at that? Who like don't know the game within the game as much, right? It's just like, oh, you weren't looking for that pitch. Like he's probably cool with going down looking this at bat, and then next at bat, he's probably gonna hit a home run off of the pitch that he was looking for. Yeah. For two at bats. Which is uh, you know, I guess that's like yeah, that's just next level kind of approach.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

And when you're going good, like again, you play all you play 140-something games. When you're going good, you're seeing the ball out of the guy's hand. That's that's that's how it is. When you're not going good, like I I can't see it.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

I don't know where it's that ball turns into like an aspirin tablet versus a beach ball.

unknown 23:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Man, so uh off season, like what did a standard typical offseason look like for you? Were you going back home? Were you doing it?

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah, I went I went back to you, I guess for a while. I would go back to Eustace, um, take probably a month and not not do a whole lot, and then get get into the weight room. Um, and then I don't even remember when I started throwing and hitting again, but you know, yeah, basically do hitting lessons, make a little bit of money, have a little bit of time off, and then actually my first couple years I went to um what was it called? They called it instructional league instructs, and it's basically for your younger high school guys or you know, again, foreign players, and it's it's like spring training, but it's in the fall. So I would I also did that. My best off seasons were when I lived in Atlanta, and Uncle Mark got me hooked up with Georgia Tech and their strength coach. They had probably 20 pro guys that worked out there, and so it was a very kind of organized 10 o'clock at the weight room, here's your here's your stuff, and then we go to TechSeball field and hit and do all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

That's awesome. Was it relatively, I mean I know you worked with a sprint guy, correct? To work on speed and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Um in Merritt Island. He uh I think he played at Florida State, football and track, something like that. And I don't know how my dad knew him, maybe like through FCA or something. But yeah, we would drive over there um, I think twice a week and work on work on our speed. November sounds right. It's been so long, man, I can't remember all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

But are most guys at the minor league and big league level, are they playing winter ball? Like, unless they're just like been a season veteran.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Um the triple A Triple A guys, maybe like your your up and down kind of big leaguer that's on the 40 man but not playing in the big leagues all year. He he would I mean I my last my last year I played winter ball. I played in the Dominican. It was a lot of fun, but it just depends. Some guys want to go home, get rest, and lift and do stuff. Other guys, you know, again, like for me, I went and did it because my contract was up with the Rays. That was a way to maybe go get signed by somebody. Um but it was great. They pay you cash and it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

No, because I I think I last remember you playing for the Columbus catfish, was it? Um I think you played it against Lakeland. You played against the Lakeland Flying Tigers, and that was like the last in-person game I got to watch you play in.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

That would have been that that either been the Vero Beach Rays or the Charlotte Stone Crabs. But yeah, we it was Charlotte.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

It was Charlotte, and I remember in specific the game I went to go watch you play. It was the craziest comeback. I think you guys were down by 10 runs in like the fifth or sixth inning. Came back, it went to extras. I think you guys ended up winning. I was like, oh, I guess it's just minor league baseball right there. I don't remember that game, but I just remember it because like I only got to watch you play a handful of times, and so I was like, okay, I think I was like an eighth or ninth grade or something like that, but uh no, that was fun.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

You on Jordan? Or are you able to play?

SPEAKER_05 26:57

Yeah, I think I am on finally now, but I've been listening in like a creeper, but at y'all's story, but no, I'm glad to be on with y'all finally. Especially as a fellow outfielder, huge fan.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Well, and Jordan's Jordan's a little bit smarter than me, so he probably has better questions for you too, at least the ones that I've missed.

SPEAKER_05 27:19

Yeah, I mean I have I have plenty of uh questions. Um so when you were uh at high school playing high school ball to Pro Bowl, was it um was the jump in between like going from playing high school just to grown men in the league, how big of that like culture shock or how big of a jump did you have to make in your own game just to get on par or was it easier than you thought?

SPEAKER_00 27:42

They uh so because you don't go straight to big leagues or jumping and play, you know, big league spring training games, you're basically at the same kind of skill level in theory as the other guys. Um it was a little different just because you know some guys were six years older than me, and then you know, again the Dominican players that that we had were older, but I don't think you think a whole lot about it. You kind of just jump in and play. I I think you feel like you belong there, and so you just you just play.

SPEAKER_05 28:14

I heard I also um we've had I think one other guy that got drafted out of high school on our like uh Dre, Dre Nelson, he got drafted out of high school. Um, but he talks about like mentorship being a big key factor while he was there um or lack thereof. Did you have a guy that you kind of leaned on towards mentorship, or did you become that guy later on in your career?

SPEAKER_00 28:34

You know, the I played in a great organization. The Rays were a great organization to where really their development is through, and we don't call them coaches, you call them by their name in Pro Ball, but you know, basically our managers and coaches all kind of came alongside of you, especially kind of I'd say the higher draft picks. I mean, that's what their job is effectively. And so I can't think of specific players other than all the guys that I mean I I roomed with, you know, Nevin Ashley, who caught in the big leagues a little bit, Craig Albernaz, who's now the manager for uh the Orioles, he was one of my roommates too. Um but yeah, so I mean you're around so many good players that you can kind of pick things from. When you do when you go to spring training, there are some big leagues that that'll come down and you know, same idea, but I can't think of any pieces of like nuggets that they gave me, but you're you're kind of picking up stuff the entire time.

SPEAKER_05 29:26

Okay, and then uh probably one of my last few questions. Um, when you were playing in the minors, going from single A or rookie ball all the way to AAA is no easy feat no matter what round you're drafted in, right? Is there is there any key adjustment or maybe key game or key play that kind of switched it on for you to have success in minor league ball? Because ultimately it seems like everyone that's there is kind of preying on your downfall so that they can have the opportunity to shine. So is there anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 29:54

No, I'd say one of the things that I wish I did a better job of was staying healthy. Um, if you can stay healthy and put together a full season, you're gonna have good numbers. I mean, in theory, you're gonna have numbers by the end of the year, but you can't hit 30 doubles if you're not playing all the whole time. So one is just staying healthy. So the nutrition, the working out, that thing.

SPEAKER_05 30:16

Um and then was the question the most difficult level or what the key No, uh it was um like was there any key adjustments or key games that like turned it around for you to make you have success that you thought of?

SPEAKER_00 30:30

I can't think of any any one specific, no. Um I think once you get to double double A is the jump. I mean single A to double A. Once you kind of get to double A, you're playing against guys that could be in the big leagues tomorrow and all have the same, you know, you know, pitches, etc., that that can compete on the big league level. And so once you get to double A and you can kind and you compete there a little bit, that's kind of where you're like, okay, I can do this.

SPEAKER_05 30:56

So um are you like a I mean, speaking of your whole family, you are all pretty regimented, pretty, pretty disciplined. Did your off-season training have anything to do with how you prepared going from double A to AAA? Or is there really is there no way to provide it?

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Yeah, I I can uh give a lot of it to Georgia Tech, their strength coach. I mean, it there's a lot of there were a lot of big leaguers that were from Georgia Tech, and so I I got to work out with those guys in the offseason, and their strength and conditioning coach was great. I can't think of his name right now, I can look it up, but he was a great strength and conditioning coach, and that kind of got me, I'd say, in a good spot with my strength, my speed, et cetera, to compete and you know, I guess make a triple-A that year is when I did.

SPEAKER_04 31:37

Yeah, no, that's that's pretty that's pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

And would you say that the biggest difference between the guys who make it and don't make it is the space between the ears and then also just staying healthy?

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Yeah, I'm gonna let my dog out real quick. I'm sorry. Yeah, I would say that there's probably three things. One is the space between your ears. That's probably the most important thing. If you have all the tools you can hit, run, throw, etc., it's gonna be between the ears for sure. And that's a combination of learning the game, you know, having an approach, but then also like a confidence, a quiet confidence. I mean, guys can lose their confidence, and it's just like they can no longer play. So it's you know, having a self-belief as well. Two is staying healthy. Like, there you're just not gonna get signed by other teams. If you if you can't stay healthy, like let's just say you're a fourth outfielder, which that would have been my path if I if I re-sign would be like, hey, you're gonna be a fourth outfielder in AAA. Well, I if I have a bad track record track record of staying healthy, they it's no reason to sign that guy. You know what I mean? Or, you know, it if you're not healthy, you can't put up numbers. So that's that's what happens to a lot of guys. And then the third thing I'd say is just having a spot available to move up. There's some guys that make it to the big leagues. I'm like, how'd that guy get to the big leagues? There's other guys that I feel like should, but they just were in the wrong organization. They just didn't have a you know place to go.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

They're just kind of in the right place at the right time, sounds like sometimes, because you being in the Rays organization, like, especially that was the beginning of like their trajectory upwards to being a postseason ball club. So it's like, and I always commend the Rays for doing the most with the least. I feel like they make it further with like the lowest payroll, with one of the lowest payrolls in the big leagues than anybody else. And I I would say like a lot of that goes to their scouting, to their development throughout the minor league system.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

And they give their guys time. I I mean again, uh, they gave me plenty of time, I had plenty of opportunity, and so when they draft and sign guys, and I I have to have to look at the front office and who's still there, but when I was there, it was a great it it seems still to be a great organization. They gave guys time to develop and hold on yards, and they do, they they grow from within, they don't go out and buy players.

SPEAKER_05 33:52

That's awesome. And going back to uh injury, injury prevention, um, you know, you see a lot of guys getting injured, and especially like kids nowadays, getting injured pretty common. Do you think um injury prevention is a skill that needs to be learned at a very young age? Or um, you know, learning how to recover, learning how to maintain body, um, body health overall without overextending yourselves? Because uh I talked to a couple, I have a couple of minor league trainers um that um that I you know worked with in uh in college, or they were my trainers when I was in college, and they're telling me they they teach me certain things every year when I when I re-re convene with them, they're like, you know, when you're when you're in the field and you're going 100% and you have that adrenaline, your body's actually going like 110%. And if you if you haven't stretched or you know put your arm in that position before, and then you immediately go 110% in that in at that time, that's it, that's how the injury happens. That's where the tear occurs because you didn't prepare your body for it, or your body's never been in that position under that extreme amount of stress. So I guess my question is Um, do you think it is important for you to learn how to rest and recover and prevent injury, especially as a younger player?

SPEAKER_00 35:04

I'd say absolutely, and it's important to learn, you know, the shoulder stability things, all the things that you do to protect your shoulders, knees, etc. The problem in Pro Bowl, right? Let me say in college, it seems like better strength and nutrition than the minor leagues. And it's it's gotten better probably since I've been out of the game, way better strength and nutrition, and you're not playing every single day. So it seems like in college it's easier to do that. Once you get in a pro ball and you play every single day, you're just not gonna feel good every single day. And then we're, you know, literally you have two days off a month if you're lucky. So you're gonna go lift at 9.30 in the morning after you got done playing at, you know, you got probably got to sleep at midnight, get up and go lift. Well, I mean, and then we got a game tonight. So it's like it's just it's almost impossible just to throughout the season, you're just gonna break down.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Yeah, and walk us through a day in the life. So you're saying that you're go to bed at midnight most nights in Pro Bowl, you're waking up at like 7, 8 a.m. Is the first thing you're doing, like eating and lifting?

SPEAKER_00 36:04

So you you I honestly guys are sleeping until 10 or 11. Because I mean it's so hard to fall asleep after you've been playing all night. You know, so if I let's just have it a normal where I'm it's it's a home series. I'm probably getting up at 9.30, probably, getting some breakfast, um, sliding into the field maybe one or two. Some days I'd go lift, or some days we had we had weights at the field too. Some days I'd you know lift there. I didn't lift maybe like two days a week, something like that, three days a week. You're just trying to hang on. You're not really trying to you're not building muscle or something, so we're trying to maintain. That's right. And then you'd play, and then again, I mean it's like Groundhog Day. You'd try to fall asleep, get up and do it again the next day. So and then the roads, it the road's tough because like if if it's our last game and we're down to Mobile and uh you know the game gets done at 10.30, shower, eat. Now we're busting it back to Montgomery, and it's uh you know, a four-hour ride.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

So that's a guy. No, no worries.

SPEAKER_05 37:20

I was just uh I was just gonna say now that brings up a good point um with the traveling. Basically, you described the gr the baseball grind, right? Uh away games, just playing every day, and a lot of high schoolers and some of these kids that want to go play college, especially JUCO, don't really know what it is. And it'll test your love for the game.

SPEAKER_04 37:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:39

Um, how was that, how was dealing with that mentally? Because overall, that's all it is, is a mental, because you're you're primed physically to do it. You've been going through it, but how is that mental grind?

SPEAKER_00 37:49

It's tough, man. So I would say that I'm not gonna say I fell out out of love with the game, but just like anything, once you get paid to do something, it becomes a job. And like when someone can check how your night went, like if I have a bad day at the office, it doesn't get posted on the internet, or my dad didn't get to see I have a bad day at the office. Whereas playing Pro Bow, I'm over four with three strikeouts. Everybody knows that. Um, so that that can be tough. And then, like, like you said, I mean, just like to have one day just to do nothing, it just it doesn't roll around. I mean, you're playing all summer, you know. So it's it is definitely taxing physically and mentally.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Do you feel like that the best ball players that you played around also just had short-term memories? They were able to control their emotions very well, like get hit in the mouth three days in a row, and they come back out the next day and think that they're a God's gift to the world still, and they were just able to basically like you know overcome that.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

I was gonna mention that, and one of the most important things that young players can learn when they're jumping into this is just no high or no low. So if you're three for three with a homer, you're the same guy as 0 for 3 with three strikeouts. Like, and you gotta you gotta trick yourself at times because there's a level of, hey, I'm seeing the ball really good right now, and this is never gonna end. I'm so good. And all of a sudden it ends, and you're like, I can't see the ball right now. I'm never ever gonna get hit again. So you gotta you gotta kind of play that mental game with yourself where it's like, I don't care how good it's going or how bad it's going, I gotta be the same guy all the time.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

I love that because it's so applicable to the real world, like business, sales, etc. It's like sometimes like at my job, I'll go 0 for 10 on sales and not sell anything for like a week and a half, and then I go five for five, six for six, seven for seven. And like I kind of like I call it Joe Flacco mindset because like I'm also a Ravens fan. He's like emotionless. Like this dude, he could have thrown like a game-winning touchdown pass, and he's he looks exactly the same as if he threw three six. So, you know, I just kind of I think it's it's very important that players learn from that. And it's like the more you can just breathe, let go, realize like not take yourself too too seriously, but just serious enough um and not get too emotional about things. I think that's like super important.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

We all have personality types. I I'm definitely not that guy. I am a high-low guy. Like, I just I just have been that. And you just ride, you try to write. The idea would be to your teammates in the clubhouse, you gotta be the same guy no matter what. I can't be high or low, but you do have to ride, like, man, if it's going good and you're feeling good about it, ride that thing as long as you can ride it, and then you gotta find a way to get out of the bad one when you're going the other direction.

SPEAKER_05 40:26

Yeah, like I think I think that's that's such a good point because I mean I can't remember Mitch. Me and Mitch played high school ball together, Mitch bats 500. I can't remember a single time I ever see him strike out. But like, I know there's definitely scenarios where like, you know, he could be like, Man, I can't believe I I had a bad game. Like, he talks about uh Marty, his dad getting on him on a game in high school, and I was like, I don't remember that game at all. Like, I I just remember I played bad. I was like, I was like, I never remember and I tell my my 12-year-old kids that I coach all that all the time, I'll go, you know, in retrospect, no one's gonna care or remember. You the only one who remembers is you. Like, I am haunted by like the errors I made in the field. Like, I think I made one air every year in in college, and it haunts me to this day, and I don't think anyone even remembers that. But I remember it word for word, but like, and then at the same time, I'm also the same kid that hit a bomb at Texas AM. Like, you know, you can't ever get down when you have those low lows. Like, it I almost laugh at myself sometimes because of how serious I take it when I'm at that low point, and then when I get that high, I'm just I'm off to the races.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

And for and for parents out there, John, I mean, now you're on the other side of things, right? Like, what's your advice to parents out there? Is it like after the game ends, you just don't talk about the game, right? Like what or what how do you approach it from a from a father's standpoint?

SPEAKER_00 41:49

I would tell them your kid's not gonna be in the big leagues, so get over it. Like and I I mean and that's kind of blunt, but honestly, I I had to have a meeting, and I'm I'm the assistant coach, and I'm the worst assistant coach ever just because I'm I'm busy with my job. And the guy I play with, he or the guy I coach with Tyler Barnett, he played for my dad, played for the Braves. His dad was the head coach at um Flagler College, he's in the baseball hall of fame, so very good baseball mind. He loves it. And and I I I've never met Pro Bowl guys that like are so into it. Well, he's into it, he loves it. And he does it for his kid, and that's that's why I coach. But we had to have a meeting, and I'm like, Parents, you're making this not fun for your 11-year-old. They're not gonna be in the big leagues, they're not gonna rem remember this. What they're gonna remember is their buddies and work ethic and doing those different things. So like take some pressure off them. Second, y'all have never hit before. None of you, none of your parents have ever hit. It's hard. It's hard. I don't know if you know that, but it's hard. So hard. They're not trying to strike out. And it's even harder when you're on on their back the entire time, right? So I mean that that would be it. It's like have fun. Baseball teaches you life. It's it's a game that teaches you life. Let's use it as a tool to do that. If you guys are gonna make it, they're gonna make it. If they're not gonna make it, they're not gonna make it. Just, you know, move on.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

That's some sound advice. I think a lot of parents probably need to hear that because I mean, we deal with parents all the time. You think their kids are gonna be the next, you know, Barry Bonds, and I'm like, that's just not the case.

SPEAKER_05 43:18

I mean, how do uh how do you, you know, because obviously you've competed at the ultimate level, the highest level, how do you separate that level of competition from coaching or training, you know, your kid, like as far as like mindset?

SPEAKER_00 43:30

Because I think that's what parents have a lot of issues with like I I don't get to hit or throw anymore, so like it doesn't get me fired, like it doesn't get me fired up. I literally just do it for Keaton. I want him to enjoy the game and play. But as far as him winning or losing, now if I go to the golf course by myself and I'm playing guys, then I get fired up because it's it's on me. Now do I want him them to lose? No, I want them to compete. But dude, if they lose, I don't care.

unknown 43:58

I mean,

SPEAKER_00 44:01

It's 11-year-old baseball. I have, he's got rings and trophies in the back of my truck. He never even took them out of the truck. We leave and he just leaves them in there. So it's like they move on after the game.

SPEAKER_05 44:13

Yeah, I always tell these parents, I was like, it's important that they, especially when they're young, like from ages like, you know, six to eleven, I was like, it's important that they one learn the game as much as they can. And two, they have to still be falling in love with the game. Like you your kids still has to be falling in love with it. Because you get like 10-year-olds, you know, that'll come to me, and then, you know, I'm not even sure if they want to be here with a one-on-one lesson with me. Or if they want to come to practice, I was like, I was like, hey, they're coming to talk because they're they just don't want to be here. So they're just goofing off. I was like, I was like, if they're not loving the game, I was like, one, I don't know why you're spending all this money. Please spend it somewhere else. I mean, I'll still take it, but like, please, like, this is this is not what it's supposed to be used for. And then like, two, if if they're not in love with the game, find something that they are in love with because they're just gonna resent it, and then by default, they'll resent you. Like, it's just it's just the way it is. Um, I mean, my brother, he my dad thought my brother was gonna be the big baseball star, and then even got hit in the face once. And after that, he was like, I'm out. Yeah. Like flat out. Basketball it is basketball to the day he dies after that. And then he was just like, I'm out. And then, like, you know, me, my dad thought I was gonna be a basketball star, and then I ended up falling in love with baseball more, you know, and like that was just one thing. You just if they want to, they will. That's right. I think every kid knows that. If a kid wants something, they'll let you know. You know, I mean you can guide them, you can push them, but I mean you can't then that's where parents draw that great line. They push them too much, and now the kid has completely drawn back and reverted, and then he's forget your baseball dreams or your parents of cheering them on in college. Like you won't even get to see it in high school. Yeah, because he's done.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Yeah, I I think that parents need to take take a step back and say, you know, what are we doing this for? Like, what's the purpose of this? And again, for me with cheating, it's learning work ethic, it's learning how to be on a team, and maybe you don't like all your teammates. Well, you're not gonna like everyone at the office, right? So it's learning how to be a teammate, it's learning how to do it. Dealing with failure, learning how all that stuff. So it's if he never plays high school or college baseball, I don't I don't care one bit. If he wants to, then he he has enough talent. If he wants to do it, he can he can definitely do it, but that's up to him.

SPEAKER_05 46:24

Yeah, and he doesn't have to make the decision now. No, yeah. And that's what that's what some parents need to uh absolutely get through their mind as well. Like they don't have to be determined to be a D1 player at the age of 10.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

And I don't I and I I don't want to say that you can't work hard and but everyone has windows of how good they can be. There are some guys that are never gonna be good enough to play in college. There are gonna be some guys that are never gonna be good enough to play Pro Ball, and that's that's fine. Work as hard as you can work and get there. But there are some guys that are not gonna work very hard that are talented and they're gonna make to the big leagues. I saw it with my own 2.2 eyes. They're just they're born to play.

SPEAKER_04 47:02

There are exceptions to the rules.

unknown 47:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

Yeah. Do you think that at that point it's just like they just continue playing because they know they're so good at it? They're just like they don't really have the love for it necessarily, as some other guys do.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

I'll use Desmond Jennings and and and DJ did love the game, but he was a wide receiver going to Alabama, five-star wide receiver going to Alabama. He had never played summer baseball his entire never. He was a football guy. And they the Rays ended up signing him, and that was his first ever real year of playing baseball. And he made it to the biggest because he's a freak. I mean, he's just a freak.

SPEAKER_05 47:34

So what would you say, what would you say um uh is like you know, your your one piece of advice for kids that do have that ambition, that want to go play college. What's your piece of advice for that? And then what is your piece of advice for guys that are in the minors trying to make it to the bigs?

SPEAKER_00 47:52

Yeah, I mean, my dad taught me this and told me, I mean, I I think I voiced my goals. Uh, you know, Mitch was asking about when did I decide I want to play baseball? I was in middle school watching my older brother, but again, and again, being around my dad's teams and being, you know, baseball rat kind of he was he basically said if you don't do something every single day to make yourself a better player, you're not gonna get any better. And two, if you're not doing it, someone else's. And he always used the the Dominican players as an example. But so very early on, I was probably in sixth grade, it was like every single day. If we're at on a summer vacation at the beach, we took a net and a T, and so every single day, probably from sixth grade on, I did something to get become a better player. So if if their goal is to play at a high level or be the best, then it's it's not a hey, now and again, it's it's every day you wake up and that's that's the grind.

SPEAKER_04 48:46

And what about for the for minor leaguers? Trying to go to the bigs.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

I'd say same idea. Um probably working on the mental side of the game, making sure you're getting stronger, you're getting faster. Um, once you get to that level and staying healthy, you know, figure out what it is that your body needs to stay healthy. Not every not everyone's body is the same. Um and really it's funny, the strength training and pro ball, it's all prevention. It's all about not getting hurt. None of it's about getting bigger and stronger, at least when I played.

SPEAKER_01 49:21

I was gonna I was gonna ask, like, you know, has that changed since, do you think? Like, do you think guys are now getting bigger and stronger in the offseason prior to season to prevent it?

SPEAKER_00 49:31

So we still in the offseason I try to get bigger and stronger. Um, I'm sure it's changed. I've been out of the game for so long I can't even tell you kind of what it is now. But when I played, your offseason was your chance to rest and then get bigger, faster, stronger. Um, and then during the season it's just maintain, maintain. So, but I I'd I'd say that for minor league guys are trying to make the leap, figure out what it is that that you got to get better at um and then stay healthy.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

And lastly, like what's your take on today's like game of baseball specifically at the college and the pro levels? I mean, obviously the pitching has gotten so much better. I feel like two guys are now throwing things at 99 miles an hour that aren't really supposed to move the way that they are. Um, you know, and what are what are your take on the approaches of the hitters nowadays?

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Uh one is I love the new robot umpire thing where if it's a ball, it's a walk it strikes the strike. I love that. I wish I had that when I played just because there's nothing you can do. If the guy's calling it you know this far off the plate, it's like he's throwing 95 and you're calling this far off the plate. So I love that. I think that's gonna change the game quite a bit in a good way, in my opinion. Just in opinion. Um the game has changed quite a bit. It seems like they're really drafting spin race fly. Again, I don't know a bunch about it, but every guy that pitches now is throwing 95, and they all have nasty stuff, and the whole bullpen slowed with guys. Um, it seems like everyone's just trying to hit home runs. Um I tell my players all the time, um, and Jordan, you probably deal with this with your guys, but I'm like, hey, you're not Aaron Judge. So he's six foot seven and he's an avatar, and so he can drop his bat and go like this, and the ball goes out in right field at Yankee Stadium. But you're four foot nothing, and you're gonna play second base the rest of your career. So find a way to move on the ground and get down the line. Oh, you're game. That was my way of saying the game's changed quite a bit. I mean, the guys are trying to hit home runs. Um, each organization is different. I really appreciated my organization. Joe Madden was the manager at the time, and all that bleeds down through the minor leagues, but like hit and runs, we were gap to gap. It wasn't like your traditional hit the ball on the ground, hit and run. He wanted you to drive the ball because if it's a hit and run and you drive the ball in the gap, the guy's scoring um so I it was starting to change while I was kind of in Pro Ball, but now it just seems like hit homers and throw hard.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

Here's my take too, John, is that like Matt taught me this when I was like in high school. I went to a Fortis State baseball camp because Mitch, with how fast these guys are throwing, you don't need to swing 110%. You just have to s you have to hit the barrel of the bat with the ball and it's gonna go. And so, like, do you think these guys are trying to swing out of their shoes instead of just like, hey, a guy's throwing 99, if I just make solid contact and produce backspin, it's gonna go. So, like, I'm just like, dude, I see these hitters and I'm like, swinging under control. Like, if you you can swing as hard as you want, but if you're not like Aaron Judge and you miss the barrel, you miss the sweet spot, it's not gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

Yeah, and that's that's what we worked on probably the most is being just short to the ball. So how how do I get my barrel to the ball short? I have more time to see it, and then you know, and the ball, the ball does jump. You don't if a guy's throwing 95, you don't have to do a whole lot uh other than put it on the middle of the middle of the barrel and it's gonna it's gonna go. So absolutely the whole idea is get stronger so you're quicker, and then two work on your swing, get it shorter to where it's getting straight to the baseball. It's in the zone quick, it stays in the zone a long time, and that way you don't have to be perfect.

SPEAKER_05 53:18

Yeah, I kind of I kind of say the same thing. I I teach my kids like, you know, instead of saying short to the ball, because as a kid, I really didn't really understand what that meant, being short to the ball. So I always say from like, you know, point A to point B, the most direct line to the ball. I always say, you know, if your bat's here, the ball's here, you want to time it up to where you come right across. I almost say, like, guys, you want to feel like it's coming across your chest, but that's just a mental exaggeration because kids like to come down into their gut and then launch it up. But I just say almost like you're slashing across your chest from point A to point B to get that across. And that's how you get that direct line of contact straight to the ball. And then, as you know, when you when you put like kids or even when you train on like pitching machines, the velocity of the RPMs is like it's three wheels, you know, putting pressure on that ball. Gravity is not affecting it by the time it gets to its destination. So if you're even remotely underneath it, or your swing, your swing path is like 80% correct, it's a foul ball, it's a pop-up, it's a rollover. You know, you gotta be direct, and like like that's like my biggest issue because you get those 11-year-olds that will hit off the T and they think that it touches the top of the net, they're a big dog, and they're gonna hit bombs, and then we're pulling hat tricks and an 11-U double-A tournament, and I don't know what you know, and you don't know what to do with that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 54:37

So it has I I can tell you this the swing, the whole hitting swing has changed since I've stopped playing. And it's a lot of it's just the way guys talk about it. And I can golf has now helped me understand that because what a pro golfer says he's doing is never what he's doing. Like if you watch all the books like it's never what he's doing. So like I think about A Rod and some of those other guys that were in the big leagues when I was young coming up. Well, you know, he always talked about swinging straight down, basically. And if you if you watch him swing, he doesn't swing straight down at all.

unknown 55:12

Flat.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

And so a lot I try to explain my players, I'm like, hey guys, a lot of what my feels were and what I was thinking, like I thought about being down to the ball. I wasn't, my barrel was flat the whole time, but that's how I had to feel to shorten up my swing, if that makes sense. Y'all guys don't even they're just like, forget it, we're gonna drop this thing and swing up.

SPEAKER_05 55:31

I mean, but like that's what I learned like you know, mirror drills, like it sounds so basic and old school, but like, you know, for me, I until I got in front of a mirror, you know, I'm thinking, oh, I just gotta go direct to the ball. But when I thought, you know, going like, you know, short to the ball like this, I was really like, like this. Like I in my mind, I looked completely different from how I actually looked. And then that's how I learned that oh, I need to feel like I'm like almost chopping wood or 45 degrees slashing to the ball to get to where I'm like actually on plane. And like, and then uh, you know, a high school coach, actually Coach Starkey said this. He goes, It's not, it's not um what I'm saying is not for you what I want you to physically do. I just want you in the mental mindset so that you're in the right position to do it. And a lot of kids have a even adults have a hard time, you know, adjusting that just because someone says, like, heyrod, I swing down at the ball, you got guys that all actually chop down on the ball.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 56:26

I was like, that is not accurate at all. He just wants you in the mindset that I can't be under here, I just gotta be on plane. And people can't put that together. But again, like, you know, not and this goes into a situation another conversation, but not all players are good coaches, and not all good coaches were good players.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 56:44

And you know, you see that all the time.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

What I was gonna say, if you if you go and look at video footage though, from Babe Ruth all the way up until now, all they're all doing it. They're all getting the same hitting position, the barrels getting the same, all of them are doing it the same. So you can, you know, they if things look different, but if you just break down a few points of them, all good hitters, all guys that you know hit 300 in the big leagues are all in the same positions.

SPEAKER_05 57:11

Couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

And to simplify it for kids, I'm like, guys, you have a round bat round ball, you have to hit it square, so you have to swing on plane with the ball. Like, you know, you can't just swing up, you can't just chop down. I mean, wherever that is, I mean, because like the mounds naturally elevated. So whenever guys like A-rod say I chopped, I they probably used to have an issue with popping the ball up, and so in their mind, they're like, I gotta swing down because that ball is coming at a downward angle.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

You remember Griffey's swing tee? The Griffey thing had the bars. Do you remember the angle of that thing? Yes. It was it was it was down, and again, if you look at Griffey, he didn't swing down, but in his head, that's how he was short. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 57:49

Yeah, or what was it? I saw that Barry Bonds video where he was doing front toss, and or he was teaching Yelich how to do front toss, and he goes, You start by like, you know, hit a one hopper to the L-screen and then make it a short hop to the L screen, and then hit the bottom, and then work your way up. Like, that's how I get on plane. He goes, I was like, and I was like, you're trying to do that in a row. One teaches back control, perfect back control, because if you can do that, it's perfect back control, especially if it's up the middle. And then two, you're working on controlling on how that elevation and how your bat angle is working in real time to get to the most optimum, optimal blast point. And I think I was like, I was like, it's so simple and so genius that you would think like, like, oh, this the guy who hits one of the most home runs and ever to ever live does a simple front toss drill to get him to where he needs to be.

SPEAKER_00 58:38

I have found, and I don't know what has changed, but I used to coach a team when I was done playing back in Alabama, a little travel ball team, and those kids, man, they listened to every word I said. And I don't know if it's just because of how they were raised or what it is, but nowadays, and hopefully my parents don't listen to this podcast, but my players don't want to listen. They they got it figured out. I'm like, all right, if you got it figured out, I won't I won't help you then. Keep, you know, keep going one for four with three strikeouts, do your thing.

SPEAKER_05 59:03

You know, yeah, I mean, some I you know, and a lot of I think a lot of it is, and I mean, I think these kids come in and come in an era where a lot of the uh facilities, the knowledge, and um, you know, just the overall game of baseball has kind of exploded to a point where like, you know, they they can get they can get by and they don't have to do like the mental hurdles that we had to do till a much older age. You know, so they haven't gone through those trials and tribulations of necessarily failing to where like to a to a degree that matters until they're like 12, 13, 14, you know, and then at that point it's high school. And then if you have mental hurdle issues in high school, good luck getting out of there. Because high school ball, believe it or not, if you want to play at the college level, it's easy, is easy, you know, compared to the college level. We all know it's super easy, but like, you know, that's what I'm running into. Is like a lot of these kids don't want to listen, and then you know, it takes some sort of dramatic failure to pull them back. And I don't mean like, oh, you had a bad day at the party. I mean it takes like a they blew the game, there's no other way, it's their fault, like it was their play to make, and it's a result of their lack of preparation or lack of ability to listen and execute, and then then all of a sudden they want to lock back in. You know, they have to get almost exposed to wanna to wanna lit win and learn and listen, and then it's and it's just tragic because you're just like, because some of those kids are good, and then they won't experience that till high school, so no one's gonna put up with that, and then it's too late.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

And I see that all the time. Whenever you teach hitting, John, like do you just keep it simple? I mean, do you do T work, front toss, overhand VP, maybe a little bit of machine stuff, like you don't use any kind of like or do you use any kind of like tools or gadgets or any of this like new stuff you just use?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:53

I I I like uh I like side toss because I can see the hitter and I you know it's just visually it's good to see the hitter. Uh T work's obviously good too. You can get in trouble on the T because I I can stand on one foot with one eye closed and hit back netters all day long just because it's sitting still. So I don't I don't overdo T work. I do it with a purpose. Maybe I do like a high T because they're again maybe they're batstragging under the ball. Side toss, I hate flips. I I don't like underhand flips because it's not realistic. I'd rather, and later in my career I started doing this where I'd rather, if you want short stuff than have the coach sit there, and so it's still, you know, you're picking up a release point off of the ear like a normal pitcher is when do you ever hit a ball from down there? So I I and again, some guys love it. I personally hate flips. If I went to take Keaton to hit today, we do side toss and then I would just throw to him. So I don't have any gadgets.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:49

I don't I don't know what gadgets are out there, but you know, neither I mean honestly, me and Jordan, we we keep it old school. Um, and like I think a lot of kids they use machines so much, and I think machines have their place for like velocity, or if you want to see like some spinning spinning stuff. Yeah, but like for the most part, I think seeing it out of a hand is so valuable.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:09

100%. Matt, you know, Matt, uh my older brother played in the Cubs organization, coach at Farde State, all that stuff. They they did a thing called a fuzz machine, which was basically super high fastballs, gas, and it was the same idea to teach you to kind of kind of get the barrel straight to the ball with no no wasted wasted energy. So he he loved that drill. I didn't I didn't do a ton of that. Um at Georgia Tech, they got a machine that's a straight up pitcher, it's a video screen, looks like a regular pitcher.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:36

When I do when I do machines, I mean, yeah, it's only for velocity. It's basically eye training. You know, just recalibrating your eyes, getting ready for the season. I mean, I don't like I mean it's it's and it's good for two-strike approaches. I mean, like, I mean, you're reacting to the ball, that's all it is. You can't time it up, but yeah, a lot of kids are put on machines, you know, like hey, get better, this is 70, but a lot of kids don't know how to read a picture. They don't know, they don't know what to look for, they don't know how to read it, they don't know how to uh get their timing down on a basic level. And I think that's why machine ball, I mean machines are being used sometimes inappropriately or not correctly, because you got kids that are going to machines trying to trying to time up 85 on a machine at the age of 13, in reality they can't hit 65 because they don't know how to read a picture or read a ball when it's coming into them in the buyer's box. And like that's my only issue with it, you know, sometimes when you have these young kids doing it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:35

Yeah, I think it just it bothers me whenever I see the kids, like our high school resorting, like throw the AirPods in and they just hit off the machine for 20 minutes on like 7580, and they're blasting it to the back of the cage, and they're like, Yeah, I'm done for the day. I'm like, okay, what's the quality there? But um, you know, John, any kind of like, you know, just kind of leaving leaving this pod, like any kind of advice you'd have to the younger generation that it was like, hey, I'm poor parents, right, that want to play baseball at a high level.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:08

Yeah, I'd say that kind of going back to what I was said before, wake up every day with an intention to get better. Um, and you know, now I'm not even a baseball player. I don't do anything with the game of baseball. I wasn't coach my son, but it wasn't a waste of time. The work ethic, you know, the really learning how to deal with different people from diverse backgrounds and being a teammate. Um it's taught me leadership skills. So really it's not gonna be in vain, anyways. If you work really, really, really hard and all you do is play a year of JUCO baseball. It's not in vain because you're learning things along the way that are gonna help you in life beyond the game. And then really remember remind yourself it's a game, it's not, it's not everything. There's life after baseball and outside of baseball. I think that's extremely important. There's a lot of people that don't realize that, and it's such a short window of our life compared to everything else that we can do.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:02

Remember that it's it's a game, and there's gonna be other things beyond it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

That's that's that's powerful, John. I really, I really appreciate that, man. And dude, thank you so much for taking the time to uh to come on the podcast with us. I know we've been bugging you for a little while now, and uh, dude, we we really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:24

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:24

Appreciate it. We'll be in touch soon. Um, Jessica and I are gonna be in Florida next year. We hope hopefully we can we can visit you guys on the way down to Orlando and uh get you on the pod again sometime. Sounds good. I appreciate it, guys.