Episode one

The Shift Stirrers

Have you ever wanted to change something about your artistic vocation and passion for it to become your new career? Our podcast is about hearing the stories of people's journeys who have made this transition and our aim is to get you curious about what's out there for you.

In this episode Michelle and Rosemary Interview each other so that you can get to know where they are coming form and how they have "Stirred the Shift"

Thank you so much for listening to The Shift Stirrers podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode, please hit that follow button so you'll get notified whenever we release new content. We'd love to hear from you—feel free to reach out at theshiftstirrers@gmail.com, or you can find our individual email addresses and websites in the show notes below. We love questions.
You can also connect with us on Instagram @theshiftstirrers.
If you found value in today's conversation, we'd be incredibly grateful if you could leave us a review or rating on your podcast platform. It really helps others discover the show. And if you know someone who would benefit from this episode, please share it with them.
Until next time, keep stirring things up.
Ah just a quick disclaimer - Michelle and Rosemary are not experts in any of the discussions today. We present this podcast in the interest of getting curious about change.

Instagram

• TheShiftStirers
• RosemaryPattisonArt
• Michelle_Benson_Art

Email

• theshiftstirrers@gmail.com
• rosemarypattison@gmail.com
• info@michellebenson.com.au

Websites

• https://rosemarypattisonart.com/
• ...

Transcript

Rosemary Pattison (00:00)
We acknowledge the First Nations people as the traditional custodians of this land, waters and culture. We pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging. We record this podcast on the land of the Boon Wurrung and Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. Always was, always will be.

Rosemary (00:36)
Michelle, are you a shift stirrer?

Michelle Benson (00:38)
I Rosemary. I've just moved from a career as a full-time worker to becoming a full-time artist and I'm loving it.

Rosemary (00:49)
stirrer. Well we're going to be hearing more about that and today we're launching our podcast the shift stirrers. And I'm Rosemary Patterson.

Michelle Benson (00:56)
Yay! Okay, I'm Michelle Benson.

and we are the Shipsters. ⁓

Rosemary (01:04)
So why stir the shift? What do we mean by that, Michelle?

Michelle Benson (01:07)
Question I'd like to ask our listeners is have you ever wanted to change something about your vocation and passion for it to become your new career? Our podcast is about hearing the stories of people's journeys who have made this transition and our aim is to get you curious about what's out there for you.

Michelle Benson (01:26)
Okay, so we've had a change of locations due to technical issues. And we're now moving on to interview each other. Rosemary, over to you.

Rosemary Pattison (01:35)
So Michelle, we are the shift stirrers. Can you tell our listeners about an aha moment or a catalyst for realising that you needed to shift?

Michelle Benson (01:46)
it was the shift was over a few years, but I think that what really hit me was the waterfall of ideas when I when I was going I think I need to shift. Suddenly it was like the floodgates opened on all my artistic ideas. I couldn't write them down fast enough because they were just flowing out of me. And it was as though I suddenly had let myself go to be able to embrace this shift. And how about you Rosemead?

Did you have a catalyst moment?

Rosemary Pattison (02:15)
During COVID, working at home, I started to draw. I guess time was my catalyst. I guess having time to draw and then starting drawing on sketchbooks and then drawing and doing some watercolour and I really enjoyed it and then collected some of my work into sketchbooks. so I guess time was my catalyst.

Michelle Benson (02:36)
Yeah, yeah.

Rosemary Pattison (02:37)
And do you know what, I sort of slid slowly, more slowly than you did, but yours was, well, you've recently stopped one job. How long did it take you to sort of, well, did you think about it for a while or did you actually just stop?

Michelle Benson (02:53)
going to answer this in two parts, Rosemary. The first part is that my whole life, even though I was working in a much more corporate job, every night, I would come home from work and draw and paint and do and create. But I think the idea really started taking action about two years before I finally made the commitment to do and I started to cut down on my hours at work.

and look at how I could become more involved in the art world. And so for you, Rosemary, what was your life like right before you made the decision to change?

Rosemary Pattison (03:29)
Yes, well, working at home, of course, because we never got back to the office after COVID. I was getting up in the morning and checking what students, how many students or what sort of work they'd submitted, because I was an assessor for students at TAFE. And I was also designing learning programs as an instructional designer. So getting up and standing at the sit-stand desk. And so

Now it's quite different because I'm doing a lot more work away from the computer but I'm still on the computer. And I've heard you've had a few changes from art to different sorts of work and now finally can you describe your work before this art change?

Michelle Benson (04:11)
Well, I'm going to go back before that Rosemary because I've started off life with a fine arts and fashion diploma back in the 80s. But from there went to a corporate financial role where I actually got all the ticks and and and all the credits that you need to be able to be a financial controller. And I've moved back into the art world in which I feel much, much more comfortable. It's so hard that you do need people behind you.

Rosemary, tell me about your cheerleaders.

Rosemary Pattison (04:39)
Yes, my cheerleaders, they're wonderful family and friends that turn up to my exhibitions, that buy my books on Amazon, that buy my books in person and just contact me and say I want this, this and this greeting card from your website, can you post them out? And that commission me for my work, for gifts for their friends just because it's my work, which is amazing. And what about your cheerleaders?

Michelle Benson (05:04)
My family, my husband, my daughters, my sister and my friends have all been very supportive of me making this move. I think that that really helps you to actually make that move. And I found the most surprising one was my husband because he made me turn around and create a proposal for what I was actually doing.

which made me think about how I had to do it. What role did community play for you in this transition, Rosemary?

Rosemary Pattison (05:34)
Well I think I've been going to some U3A lectures on critical thinking and misinformation and what's currently happening and I think that role sort of did stimulate thought about how can I bring some of those issues into children's books and have discussions with adults and have adults get kids curious about asking questions and that sort of thing and my latest book was inspired by

the TV series Adolescents. What about you? Tell us about the role of community in your transition.

Michelle Benson (06:07)
I started selling my ceramics in the markets, the art markets around Victoria, and I've got to know a lot of other market, marketeers, we call them marketeers, in that field. And I found they've been a generous community in helping you establish yourself in that market world.

Rosemary Pattison (06:18)
Yes.

Michelle Benson (06:29)
just supportive in ways I hadn't expected. I actually get there on a Saturday and a Sunday and I go, my gosh, I'm with all my new friends. So I really do enjoy that.

Rosemary Pattison (06:39)
That's lovely and I was at Dalesford Market last weekend and this beautiful man helped me put up my umbrella. Just amazing. I've been surprised how wonderful people are. Now let's talk about finance, Michelle. How did you manage the financial side of transitioning?

Michelle Benson (06:55)
Well, slowly Rosemary, I've actually given myself a timeline before I take it to make sure financially we can afford for me to do this. In my past life, my qualifications allow me to take on part time work. And if I've given myself a date, and if it's not all working by that day, I will go to actually doing some part time.

work in the commerce financial field but I will never go back full time. will always, my aim is to make this work.

Rosemary Pattison (07:24)
I'm sure you will make it work.

Michelle Benson (07:26)
Thank you Rosemary. What's one thing that you've had to sacrifice when you've made this shift?

Rosemary Pattison (07:32)
think working alone at home as an artist, that's what I like to do. I'm an introvert and I like reflective thinking about things. But I've had to let go of outcomes. there's no meeting with your boss or KPIs, deadlines. So just to work for my own happiness. And I think Picasso had a...

funny that I'm mentioning Picasso but he had a nice little quote if I remember it's something like, am learning what I cannot do yet. I am doing what I cannot do yet. yeah. Yeah and I'm keen to hear of your sacrifices.

Michelle Benson (08:09)
Well, actually, I'm just going to say something I thought I was an introvert until I started doing podcasts, selling in the markets. And it's like this whole other personality has come out, where I actually really enjoy being a bit of an extrovert, which is something I've never been before. But, but I think that time and when I say time,

Rosemary Pattison (08:18)
Hmm.

Wow!

Michelle Benson (08:35)
I think leisure time because especially during that key transition phase when I was working both roles, I didn't have any free leisure time. I was either continually creating product, continually working in my job or continually selling at market. So the transition has been all time consuming and I have had to sacrifice my personal leisure time to make it happen.

Okay, so what unexpected skills have you brought over from your previous roles that have been valuable to you in this move?

Rosemary Pattison (09:11)
Yes, well there's lots but I suppose ⁓ one that's obvious is having been a moderator for a not-for-profit we used to run webinars and I guess sort of I've worked with you on this and I've done some of the scripts and so that's I never thought I'd be using that again and there's lots of others and I know that you've been enjoying we've both been doing our teamwork which I mean

We could have had other artists that may not have worked in team, so it's been great to be sharing Google Docs. And it was very funny the other day when I was working and Hi Rosemary popped up on the Google Doc and I thought I was the only one working on it, so it's hilarious. But apart from teamwork, what have you found that you've brought to your art space from previous work?

Michelle Benson (10:01)
think, I might my role previously, I had to have a lot of discipline and I and I had to be self motivated. I think those skills are skills that I've brought across. Writing lists and proposals, attention to detail, planning, these are all things that have been transferable. I think having a really large understanding of financials has helped me because I really do know to know what I'm doing.

And what about you Rosemary?

Rosemary Pattison (10:28)
Yeah, so I've always been an educator, so I guess it's a natural progression to then be writing children's books. But I think having written case studies for students so they can understand some complex theories, I found my children's stories have come to me quite easily. And I also taught document design, so that helped with the layout of the children's books and my greeting cards.

And then of course if I think back to being a mother with young children and explaining empathy to them when they talked about other kids not being kind, I think that sort of comes into my art as well.

Michelle Benson (11:08)
love that because I think art is all about empathy. What new skills have you learnt that have helped you with this transition? Tell me about those.

Rosemary Pattison (11:16)
Yes,

so as you know we're just learning so many new skills. I had to focus on Procreate which is the software to draw with on the iPad. So once I'd done the sketch and I might have done some watercolour, I might want to also add something else in or draw something straight onto the iPad which is using Procreate. So software, learning software, yeah and another software I had to learn was Canva.

to actually publish to Amazon. And so we're learning all the time, aren't we? And what about you?

Michelle Benson (11:49)
we are learning all the time. I cannot get over how much I've learned even in just learning to produce this podcast and dealing with glitches, dealing with glitches that you weren't expecting. But a key one for me has been photography. I never photographed my creations previously and now having created a website, which was another learn. ⁓

Rosemary Pattison (11:55)
Yes.

Yay, well done!

Michelle Benson (12:12)
The quality of my photography has had to up a lot and learning to sell. I didn't know how to sell before. So now I think that's put out my my lower key as they say to and learning to actually be positive in on days when you're not having a good day. yeah, lots of learning.

Rosemary Pattison (12:32)
Yeah, I'm

not good with images. I'm not good with taking photos of my work. I need to work on that too. ⁓ Great. And what about, has your sense of identity changed at all?

Michelle Benson (12:40)
Mmm.

Well, I think I'm a lot more confident. I have moved on from feeling like I'm an imposter in the art world and feeling like I belong. and every day doing things like selling, creating podcasts, I feel that confidence coming out in me.

Rosemary Pattison (13:03)
That's great! Awesome!

Michelle Benson (13:05)
So Rosemary, from working as a TAFE teacher, I'm guessing your identity has changed too.

Rosemary Pattison (13:11)
Yes, well, I am an introvert, so art has helped me actually tell my stories and have a voice, which has been great. so I guess that's something that has changed for me. And so what does success mean to you, Michelle?

Michelle Benson (13:31)
think my viewers success has changed. Initially it was well if I can make money at this and I've been successful, which since now a very mercenary way to look at it. It's become more about getting my message out and my message is is that about human frailty, which is that we're all beautiful. We've all got torn bits. We've all got damaged bits.

but we're still all beautiful. And getting that out to the world and people understanding that has has actually become my view of success that people actually stop and look at my work and say, my gosh, I love your work. It's beautiful. And I explain my story to them of where I'm coming from. And often that touches them. And I think that's important. And they'll tell me their stories. So yeah, that's it's a big change. And how

Rosemary Pattison (14:20)
That's amazing!

Michelle Benson (14:21)
And how about you? What was your view of success now versus before?

Rosemary Pattison (14:27)
Yeah, well, perhaps before, of course, a student might get a qualification and then you hear that they've got a great job out of that or they've gone on and studied something else. For success now, if someone picks up my work at the market and says, did you make this? And they really like it, that makes my day. But also from the creation of a storybook and on a long drive deciding what's going to happen or

waking up in the morning and going, that's what that character's got to be, whatever, to actually holding the book in your hand, such a reward, yeah. Yeah. And what has been any most rewarding or unexpected outcomes for you, Michelle?

Michelle Benson (15:01)
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine it would be. I can imagine it would be.

Well, I feel, I feel more centered in myself. I feel as though I'm on the right path now. I feel as though I'm where I'm supposed to be in life at the moment, which is a wonderful feeling because for so long I felt as though I wasn't really fitting in.

Rosemary Pattison (15:24)
Amazing.

Michelle Benson (15:28)
And I've made so many friends on this journey, even to date. You've been one of them, Rosemary. As we said, we met through a course we did called Evolve and we actually had an exhibition with three other artists together. And ⁓ from that, we decided to create this podcast. So for you, Rosemary, what's been the most rewarding thing?

Rosemary Pattison (15:34)
I'm so lucky!

Yes, well, the same. It's been great working with you and for me the creativity, like when you're not working and your head has got room to create. I've been surprised how the ideas come and just being in the flow, it's just been amazing.

Michelle Benson (16:09)
That's wonderful. And what's up next?

Rosemary Pattison (16:10)
Yeah.

Well, I've got my next children's book storyboard laid out. It's about how we look at selfies, how we take selfies. And I'm thinking about a coffee table book that I've started and I've got an author talk coming up. So yeah, lots to do. Very lucky. What about you?

Michelle Benson (16:32)
Well I was just going to ask you about your coffee book first.

Rosemary Pattison (16:35)
I'm having a play with text within a shape to, as you say, try to get the possibility of a viewer to sort of get an emotion or an experience by looking at my work. So I'm excited about that and our mentor Amy has been helping me with that. And yeah, I'm pleased about it. What about you?

Michelle Benson (16:56)
I'm in awe about the coffee table book at the moment, sorry. Okay, so I would like to have a solo exhibition next year. That exhibition, I'm planning to have it on, it started out being the seven phases of woman based on Shakespeare's poem. But it's now

Rosemary Pattison (17:12)
Amazing.

Michelle Benson (17:14)
sort of becoming about the hidden codes that women have written throughout history. Some of them are considered quite mythological, just myths. For example, the hidden codes in quilting on the Underground Railroad in America during the Civil War there. And there's also the Bejew Tapestry which was actually put together

by Saxon women even though was the Normans that the Bezout tapestry is about and they would write hidden messages within the Bezout tapestry. So it's about what we as women portray and say

in comparison to what a real message is. It will still have that seven ages in it, but it's an evolving thing. yeah, it's something I'm still working on. And the other one is I'd like to get my application completed, which has to be done this week for the Warren Diet Pottery Expedition. So by the time you hear this podcast, it will have I will know whether I got into it. So yeah. ⁓

Rosemary Pattison (18:19)
We're a fingers crossed

for that and I can't wait for that exhibition.

Michelle Benson (18:22)
Thank you, Rosemary. So what's motivating you right now?

Rosemary Pattison (18:26)
What's motivating me? having come to art, having the time to focus on art now in my older age, I seek out people who are clever and I watched the movie Nighad, who was a battle woman who made multiple attempts to swim the Straits of Florida when she was 60. then recently, of course, we've lost Jane Goodall. What a wonderful person she was.

She went from secretarial work to this wonderful research, living in the field and having to learn to observe, draw, document and make new discoveries. Such a big skill leap and I love to hear about that sort of thing. What about you?

Michelle Benson (19:07)
That's lovely. Well, strangely enough, it's similar in its way. I am listening a lot to people's stories, both historical stories and recent stories. Jane Goodall being one of them. What I'm loving is the strength and resilience of people. People are like willows. They bend, they don't break.

that that I'm finding fits with my work ethos and I'm finding it incredibly inspiring.

Rosemary Pattison (19:34)
That's awesome. Have you got some advice you'd give to someone in the before position who sort of wants to get out of what they're doing and get into art?

Michelle Benson (19:43)
You can do it. You can take that leap. Plan. I recommend your plan, but you can do it. Follow your heart and follow your passion. You'll feel so much better for doing it. Yeah. What?

Rosemary Pattison (19:55)
I love that. Why did you want to...

That's not going in the bloopers, that's staying. Go.

Michelle Benson (20:02)
Okay,

all right. Why did you want to start a podcast, Rosemary?

Rosemary Pattison (20:07)
Well, lots of fun, so much fun. You and I are on the same page, but it's mainly, as you said, it's not about us. It's about some stories that we can get by getting people to come on our podcast. And actually, I love podcasts. I love WhatsApp Rush. I love Not Stupid. There's heaps I love. And I think you're going to tell me about some other podcasts too, sometime. What about you?

Michelle Benson (20:32)
⁓ yeah, there's ones like Art Juice, I love Art Juice, it's a great podcast. And there is The Guilty Feminist, which I love. ⁓

Rosemary Pattison (20:40)
I want

to listen to that one.

Michelle Benson (20:42)
Yeah, it's quite good. But I agree with you. It's not about us. This one is because it's an it's our first podcast. But in the future, it will be about people's journeys and and their story through that journey of change. And and the idea is that it inspires you and motivates you to be curious about making a change in your life.

Rosemary Pattison (21:05)
And I think you've just answered that question. What do you hope business will take away from the shift stirrers?

Michelle Benson (21:12)
I want to help them make the shift. So Rosemary, what's motivating you?

Rosemary Pattison (21:17)
So I'm motivated to help our listeners to get curious about what's available for them and get creative about exactly what you've done, Michelle, is like just, get curious about how to do some more art. And here is our final question.

I'm going to ask you. If you could give your past self one superpower to make the transition easier, what would it be?

Michelle Benson (21:36)
one.

Well I'm going to answer this two ways. So first of all I think I'd like to be Flash who actually does everything at lightning speed and can get through masses and masses of stuff in very small amount of time. But there's a Barbara Streisand song I think it's called Everything where she says she would like the perfect twins so when she goes out

the twin comes in and so that you're always doing, you're always out there and you have the energy to do it so yeah that would be my superpower. And how about... yeah the flash t-shirt.

Rosemary Pattison (22:12)
Awesome, I love that. Flash, you better get a Flash t-shirt.

Michelle Benson (22:17)
I'm working on the I'm working with you on the podcast t shirt right now. So let's leave the flash one for a few weeks and get the podcast one done. Rosemary, what what would be your your answer to what was your superpower?

Rosemary Pattison (22:24)
Okay. ⁓

Yes, well if I think back to my youth and I started remembering when I started working again on art, my mother showing me so much art, so many processes. I wish I could have actually just made art alongside all the other things I did, the growing up, the career. so my superpower might have just helped me do my art alongside my other stuff.

So thank you Michelle, so excited to do a podcast with you and thanks to our listeners that we've just done our first podcast. Yay!

Michelle Benson (22:57)
Stick.

And thanks,

it's been so much fun Rosemary. Disasters that we've had in putting this first podcast together. Trust me, it's been fun. All right, thanks everyone.

Rosemary Pattison (23:13)
Shh.

Michelle Benson (23:31)
we finished us. Wow! First interviews over and done with Rosemary.

Rosemary Pattison (23:37)
Yes.

Michelle Benson (23:38)
Who do you think I've got coming up as the next guest on our podcast?

Rosemary Pattison (23:43)
Hmm, I'm not sure. I know you've been thinking up lots of great ideas and talking to lots of inspiring people. Let me guess. I can't guess. You tell me.

Michelle Benson (23:54)
it's Adam from the Rose Street Market. He's been transformational in people's lives by setting up those markets. So many people have transitioned their lives and being able to earn money along the way so that they're then able to choose their vocation.

Rosemary Pattison (23:57)
Wow.

Amazing, and that's the market that anyone who visits Melbourne has to go to.

Michelle Benson (24:19)
yes it'll be a great discussion. I'm looking forward to it and that's in a fortnight's time. ⁓ listeners please, it in your diary, that's a good idea.

Rosemary Pattison (24:30)
Good find, thank you Michelle.

Michelle Benson (24:32)
Thank you for listening to the Shift Stirrers. You can find us on Instagram under the shift stirrers or you can email us any questions because we will answer questions either in the show or get back to you on the shift stirrers at gmail.com.

All our separate contacts are available in the show notes so please send us questions, give us a review, give us a thumbs up, subscribe to us, tell your friends about us because we are new and we're looking for all the followers we can get. The more people who know about Stirring the Shift the more people who'll come back. Thank you.

Okay, thank you. Bye.

Rosemary Pattison (25:10)
Bye-bye.