Ep 6: Why Being ‘Weird’ Might Be Your Biggest Advantage || Braith Leung

Everyone says "be authentic." 

Very few actually show you what that looks like.

In this episode I sit down with Braith who has built across startups, content, and music and one thing stands out - he doesn't wait. 

He follows curiosity, takes action, and isn't afraid to look a little "weird" doing it.

This isn't about having it figured out. It's about trusting the process while you do.

This isn’t a conversation about having it all figured out. 

It’s about trusting the process. 

If things don't fully make sense yet this one's for you.

WHAT WE COVER:

• Why curiosity is your biggest unfair advantage
• Standing out with zero experience or social proof
• Using AI without sounding like everyone else
• Why giving value for free early changes everything
• Building a personal brand that converts, not just gets views
• Letting go of advice that no longer serves you
• Rejection as redirection

TIME STAMPS:

02:10 - Curiosity as a growth engine 

04:45 - Why giving value early in your career pays off 

07:15 - Outreach strategies and building social proof 

10:05 - Overcoming age and experience doubts in startups

13:30 - AI: automation vs. authenticity 

17:00 - How social media levels the playing field for young founders 

20:40 - Getting started with personal brand and content 

24:05 - Why consistency beats motivation 

27:30 - Using AI ethically without losing your voice 

31:00 - Music as therapy and brand extension 

34:10 - Owning your "weirdness" as a differentiator 

37:20 - Unlearning outdated advice 

40:15 - Handling skepticism about youth and credibility 

43:30 - What's next: Kinso, personal brand, and music 

47:20 - Rejection as a filter, not a failure 

50:00 - Identity, perseverance, and staying true to yourself

CONNECT WITH BRAITH:

• LINKEDIN - https://www.linkedin.com/in/braith-leung/
• INSTAGRAM - https://www.instagram.com/braith.mp4/
• TIKTOK - https://www.tiktok.com/@br.ai.th

FOLLOW EX-VICARIOUS WEBSITE: https://ex-vicarious.com/

FOLLOW EX-VICARIOUS: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ex-vicarious/

FOLLOW KINSO ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/kinso.app/

JOIN KINSO WAITING LIST: https://www.kinso.ai/?utm_source=ig&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link_in_bio&fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMjU2MjgxMDQwNTU4AAGnZDMKnHvF45_2dfXwTDm_d6eiHOf52s8fFxsRF5h2LU4P9Wl1Nzh-yNVWe88_aem_zY8EOUBpV15akD_g0brlmg

CONNECT WITH MAHDIEH ON INSTAGRAM - https://www.instagram.com/mahdieh.rassafiani/

FOLLOW YOUR NEXT STEP PODCAST SOCIALS

• INSTAGRAM https://www.instagram.com/yournextstep.pod/
• TIKTOK - https://www.tiktok.com/@yournextstep.pod
• YOUTUBE - https://www.youtube.com/@YourNextStepPodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I'm really amazed by you, Brace, like in so many different aspects. Um for someone I'm I'm gonna say young.

SPEAKER_03 0:08

I just like never napped because I was just always feeling like I was gonna miss out on life.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Gen Zed's like one of those generations where they don't really want to do work, they don't really want to put in the long hours, they don't want to do the things that you know a generation who's like, you know, 20, 30 years.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

Life is more most enjoyable when you just go for it.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Oh yeah, 100%. 100%. But what inspires you?

SPEAKER_03 0:33

I had like a family trip to Hong Kong and like the first two days I like didn't really spend much time with them because I was just like in Starbucks, like trying to finish off these blogs because like I can't miss the deadline.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Your music, the fact that like at a young age you've done like you're doing this, all this like LinkedIn um branding for founders, working at one of the most like viral startups, um, Kinso. Yeah, and you know, just doing all these amazing things.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

And I was like, like, yeah, went a bit overboard, but like it sounded like really authentic. So um I think like the AI you use is also like can make a big difference.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Very true, very true. Because I feel like everyone now is just using ChatGPT and like it's crazy how some people use it as their therapist. How would you describe yourself in like one word?

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Weird. I think that makes sense. Yeah, if you are to use AI, I definitely recommend using Claude. One time I gave it the prompt of like make this post sound really rough, like just an Aussie bloke talking to a friend. And then it started like swearing. Like there was a bunch of like they added a bunch of swear words into it. And I was like, Chat GPT would never do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Yeah, in those moments that you've had, dark moments, you want to call it, moments that you had so much doubt, so much confusion. What's one thing that you wish someone had told you that would have changed those moments for you? Welcome to your next step.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

Thank you for having me on.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

I am really amazed by you, Braith, like in so many different aspects. For someone, I'm I'm gonna say young. Um, I feel like, you know, someone that's a little bit older than you, I I look up to and I get really inspired by so many different aspects. And, you know, it's your music, the fact that like at a young age, you've done like you're doing this, all this like LinkedIn um branding for founders, working at one of the most like viral startups, um, Kinso.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

And you know, just doing all these amazing things. Um, I want you to like tell people a little bit about yourself. Like, let's go back to the start. Who's Braith?

SPEAKER_03 2:44

Yeah, well, thank you very much, uh Maddie for the kind words and also having me on. Um yeah, I mean who who am I? The real question. Um I think if if we if we try to take it back, I I think this summarizes kind of the the way I think and and who I am. Even from a really young age, like a lot of people when they're kids, like you like napping. And like it's quite normal for kids at like preschool to always be napping, and even like I don't know, primary school, whatever, it's like you you do quite a lot of sleeping. And I just remember and my parents always remind me that like from as early I don't know, from as early as preschool and stuff, I just like never napped because I was just always feeling like I was gonna miss out on life. I was just like didn't want to sleep at all. I I don't know, it's and it's not like I was doing anything crazy like kids nowadays are like coding so young or whatever. I wasn't doing nothing crazy like that, but I think it's just like there's always this like um desire in me to like use as much of the time that we have and and do something about it. So I think as I got a bit older, that just turned into a different form of ambition. So, like in high school, um it was well based on like the school I went to and like my parents always pushing me, I guess it transferred to like always wanting to do well in school and like get good marks. And then for um when I started making like music in year 10, it became like okay, I want to get as many people listening and knowing about this music, and then when I got more into like career stuff, like when I started doing the the blog and the podcast, and it's it was all about like how can I get more and more really cool, impressive people onto the podcast and and um to be consistent with it. And yeah, now with the career, it's like at Kinzo, how can we reach um one of the one of the goals we set was like one mil ARR in the first week? So it's like how can we reach these like goals for the company as as soon as possible? Um yeah, so I think to to summarize who I am, it's just like someone who always just wants to like make the most out of the time and and like feel like shouldn't shouldn't be wasting what opportunities we have just like going after it. And I I guess like the the things I've gone after have always shifted throughout time, but it's always just like there's always something that you can go for, and I reckon like it it life is more most enjoyable when you just go for it.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Oh yeah, a hundred percent. But what inspires you? Is it like a person? Is it like different situations?

SPEAKER_03 5:24

Yeah, so a lot of yeah, I'd say like a lot of different things inspire me. So it depends on the context. If we start with professionally, I think in terms of what I'm doing right now, I was really lucky that I saw Frank and Jacques who had just sold their company, um, and they were now, you know, bringing together all these founders doing over 10 mil in Australia, and that inspired me because I was like, Australia is a place where like business and and success and especially like broadcasting your monetary success is usually not very well supported, yeah. Um, just because of like the tall poppy syndrome, but then they were like going against that, and I've always been really fascinated by founders, like people who have the conviction to ignore what other people think and just like do it their own way, and they were building that community, and I was like, this is really cool. Um, so that definitely inspired me, and so I was like really appreciative when I like was able to join them. Um, and then a lot of the founders and like when I did the podcast X Vicarious, like the whole concept is like don't just watch what your idols are doing, but like try to do it yourself. So that's why I was like, who are people who have done that? Whether it's in the domain of starting their own business, or maybe it's something artistic, like there was this guy who at 17-year-old was like filming videos for one four, or like someone who's like an Olympian. So it's like people who are like worked really hard in that their domain and done things where most people like that's probably not possible, but they just did it anyways. Um, those are the type of people that inspire me, I'd say.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Oh, that's so nice. And I want to touch on this tall poppy syndrome. Like, I know there's this topic that everyone's talking about, and like, you know, Australia is like is known for you know, not people really wanting to help other people. And how have you experienced that? Like working in a startup or being around founders, like what is the most common thing that founders talk about around this tall poppy syndrome?

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Yeah, so the the interesting thing for me is I think your experience is very much a product of what like the people you surround yourself with and and the sort of environments you put yourself in. And I think I was quite lucky that I I never like experienced too much of the tall poppy syndrome directly because when when I was like very early in my career, I was doing this blog and interviewing these people who obviously have not let tall poppy syndrome stop them. So then they were people that I was talking to every single week, like mostly founders, and and then so I I didn't really feel the tall poppy syndrome energy, and same as like when I joined Kinzo, everyone here is like so supportive of each other, like no one's trying to put each other down. Um and and and so I guess like it's most prevalent when I see other people experiencing it and they're sharing about that on social media because like I have people I have friends or like just people I come across who has spent a lot of time in corporate, um, like outside of like startup sort of um environments, and they describe like feeling it sometimes where like it's a lot of people cutting each other down. Um and and so I think it it when when you surround yourself with people who like are all supportive of each other, then you actually don't feel it as much. Um, but I am also very aware, like because I hear from friends outside of these environments and that they're always struggling with that and and like um trying to deal with that, then I'm like, okay, so it is it it is definitely still prevalent, and uh it could even be like people who comment on our stuff. So sometimes we're trying to like share business advice, and I'm I know a lot of the time like people just saying like oh there's not to Frank and Jacques, like there's no way you sold your company for that much, and like they're like you're just lying. They're like because yeah, they're just like yeah, there's always like these people who are, I guess, hating. But um, in terms of like the own the inner circles I am in, I'm like, I think I'm very lucky to to not have to experience it so much and just be be around a bunch of people who like all support each other, which which I'm like super appreciative of.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

That's really interesting. Because personally, I feel that the one just that has just started their own podcast, yeah. You like reach out to different people and like you want to try and you know, for me personally, it's like get get to know them personally, because the whole reason of this podcast is just to get to know as many people, give them the platform to share their stories. Um, and it's like really interesting the kinds of feedback you get. Um, like some people are very open to it, sometimes you never get a response, and sometimes it's like, oh well, like you know, we need to see it further developed, which you know, rightfully so, not against any of that. Yeah. But if you wanted to give advice to someone who's just recently started in that phase, yeah, what would you like tell them?

SPEAKER_03 10:19

I think it's more most relevant for me when I started the blog because that was before the podcast. And by the time I started the podcast, I had like a few reps where it was like some pretty cool people have come onto the blog, so then I could use that as social proof to get guests for the podcast. Um, but yeah, for the blog, I I guess it's just it's all about numbers. So the way I saw it was like I set a marker of success. It wasn't how many people said yes to me, it was how many outreaches I made. So if I'm like doing 20 outreaches every day and I reach that, then I'm like, I've done well today. Like I've that's what I can control because it's very easy to be like, oh, I can't be bothered doing any, or you might do like five or 10 and you're like, I don't have any energy to do more. But if I'm like, I've pushed myself to do 20, and like even if just like 10% of people reply to you, that's still two people. And if you're getting two people replying to you every day, that's 14 people over a week. And it's like if you get at least one of them, like one out of 14, that's a very small percentage, but then you've got your first guess. So then it's just a numbers game. That's the way I saw it. And the more guests you get, then the more social proof you build, and the more likely you'll you're gonna be able to get like more and more successful and busy people. Because a lot of people who are busy, as you said before, they may say, like, I want to see this further developed. So you're like, okay, well, how can I get to that point? Um, but then along the way, you also find like there's gonna be a lot of people who are just like really nice people who are generous with their time. So my very first guest was Dan Brockwell from Early Work, and I remember I've seen uh at that point I'd seen him at a couple like networking events presenting on stage. Um, at the time, like I felt like everyone in the startup space was hearing about early work because it started as a community, and um, so I was just like, Yeah, this guy must be so busy. Um, but he was just kind enough to be like my first ever guest for the blog, and that definitely helped um me get other guests, but also for myself build the confidence in thinking like this guy is like light years ahead of me career-wise, I've I've achieved nothing, but he still agreed to do this, so why can't another person similar to him say yes, right? Because you you build the not just social proof, but you build like conviction in yourself that you can get it. And then it's like the way that like as you're doing this, I guess the other thing apart from just being a numbers game, like you learn to improve the way you outreach people. So the way you get a yes um is something that you also improve in. And and the way I did it was like if I send a I realized really quickly, you send a super long message, no one cares because they're really busy, so they probably don't want to read a super long message, and then it's like, how can you convince someone in a really short message? So from there it's just like a lot of research. I would research like um one of I think like one of the guests I wanted most when I first started was Tim Noakesmith, who co-founded Val. And um yeah, I think they were like at that point, they had recently raised like a 76 mil like Series A. Like they were they were popping off, and I was like really interested in the company as well. So then I was like, how can I possibly get him? And I realized he had done a like through all this research, I realized he had done a TED talk. Um, at the end of the TED talk, he said something like, All it takes is one conversation, and and that's it was all about like changing the way people think about um meat consumption and the environment. But I was I was thinking like, okay, so I messaged him like all it you once mentioned, all it takes is one conversation, and I'd love to start that conversation with you. And then from there, like linked it to what I wanted to talk to him about in terms of my podcast. And like because it showed that I had put in the work to like understand what he's done and and this type of stuff he's said, but also in a smooth way, like link it to um what I wanted to do with him on this podcast, then then like he was he liked the way I outreached it because first of all, you like stand out, but then you've also shown effort. So I think those are the two main things, and you haven't like sent something super long that they wouldn't even be bothered to read. Um, so that's that's like an example of like when you do put in the reps, then you start to figure out like what actually works. So, like for anyone starting out, I'd say the main thing is like first off set your marker of success as something you can control. And once you reach that point, make sure you're always learning from all the volume that you're putting out. Like, don't just do it mindlessly, learn from it, and you're gonna improve as you go. And it will be impossible not to find some success because there are good people in the world, like Dan, who gave me a chance at the very beginning. And like, yeah, if if everyone in the world was evil, then maybe you'll you'll never get again. But like, that's just not the way it is. There's definitely good people. So, um, as as those good people like give you a chance, say yes, you also build like more trust in yourself that you can get it uh more often.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree, and it's just finding and knowing like different people. I feel like people really respond to um really well when you know about them, and it's like you've shown that you've shown interest, and this is there's a reason behind they inspire you and you want them to be there. So I am really curious because I've been seeing a lot around social media and people that speak, they're like Gen Z like one of those generations where they don't really want to do work, they don't really want to put in the long hours, they don't want to do the things that generation who's like 20, 30 years in their careers and stuff. What's your viewpoint on that? Like, because I feel like nowadays a lot of organizations, companies, startups, they really value that perspective that Gen Z bring. How do you view it as someone who's like doing all these amazing things for founders, for Kinso? How do you view it?

SPEAKER_03 16:09

I don't know. I feel like every generation has the same. Like there's there's just gonna be some people who are lazy, some who are hardworking. And I think maybe the gap is getting bigger with Gen Z because it's like we're right in the middle of where AI has launched, and like Gen Z and probably the the generation below us are getting the most benefit from it because we're like the most AI slash digital native. So that means like people who are really ambitious right now, who are like tapping into the power of social media and AI, can get so much further ahead. Like a good example is this guy, Albi, who came into our office at I think he was just 13 years old. He was just like he had a few business ideas, was looking for a mentor, and Frank was like kind enough to say yes. And then Frank told him to like just start posting content, and then he did start posting content, and it's like a couple months later, his YC in he he posted a video to try to get like a white, like a YC application, and that that like it was like seven million views, might be like 10 mil views now, and he's like 14 years old. He's just come back from the US, like visiting all these like big dogs in San Francisco and and like all the all the other cities. And it's because he's tapped into the power of social media and like building building stuff in AI. There will also be a lot of 14-year-olds who are actually gone the other way, who have like been plagued by social media and like are probably doom scrolling all the time and just saying like stupid words all the time, becoming more and more like brain dead because of like social media and AI. Like AI can also make you lazier if you're like not learning any fundamentals when it comes to math and English and just becoming dependent on AI. I think when it comes to like Gen Z either being lazy or like being like your super like secret weapon, I I reckon it's like sim similar to any generation, but like because of AI and social media right now, it's just like accentuated that. Um, so I I don't think it's like more one way or the other, it's just like there's always going to be people on both sides, but maybe like it's just getting a bit more extreme and and obvious.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

I want to bring it to this that if someone now wants to start their personal brand online and has no experience on social media, nothing, yeah, where should they start?

SPEAKER_03 18:29

So I think it depends on what their goals are and like which industry they're playing in. So for an example, if you're doing like e-commerce, then knowing how Instagram, TikTok, like video formats work, Facebook, if meta ads, like knowing how those things work is definitely going to be very beneficial. But like a lot of the stuff I do where it's like doing work with founders and and um founders who are in the B2B space, for example.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Tech B2B space, basically.

SPEAKER_03 18:59

So like business to business, yeah, and like especially like with within the realms of tech, I feel like it makes a lot of sense to build the brand on LinkedIn. Um so so first of all, like I I think like choose one platform and based on what industry and what type of like customers you want, that can inform which platform you choose. And this is like a quick, a quick like bit of research on Google, like just through AI, like researching what um what platforms are best suited for that industry can give you an idea of which one to choose. And from there, I'll just like spend a lot of time learning about what people post on that platform, like what what is defined as good content on that platform. And it's not like you need to do anything crazy to find that, you literally just need to scroll. And because the algorithms are so good, let's say you're interested in I don't know, social media and like becoming a social media like manager, then you're probably gonna like come across a lot of videos of people talking about how to create social media content, etc. Um, and the feed like will just give you more and more of those videos, and then you'll start seeing the ones that perform well, and then from there you can just like note down what's like the hook that they did. So, like in a video, the hook could be like whatever's being said in the first three seconds and whatever sounds you hear and what what sort of visuals you see. Whereas like on LinkedIn, it's like the the writing that you see before the see more button, and that's like the only chance you have at capturing someone's attention before they swipe. So it it like the principles I feel like are pretty similar across platform. It's all about how can you capture attention and then retain attention and then deliver some value that makes people want to engage, whether that is like a like, comment, share, save, follow. Um and then off the back of that, how do all of these like pieces of content drive some sort of goal in the business? Whether it's to like get people to sign up for a wait list or like sign up to um become your client or or like create join your app or whatever. Um, so I'd say a lot of it is just like choose the platform that makes sense for your industry and audience, get really like study the hell out of um content within that industry on that one particular platform, and then just start creating content. And like when you start creating content, the most important thing is just being consistent. So doesn't it doesn't have to be like multiple posting multiple times a day, it could be once a day, maybe once every two days. For me, like when I first started on LinkedIn, I was just doing once a week, but I made sure for like at least three to six months that I never missed the week. And um, like I remember the f when I first started the blog in like maybe the second or third week, I had like a family trip to Hong Kong, and like the first two days, I like didn't really spend much time with them because I was just like in Starbucks, like trying to finish off these blogs because I can't miss the deadline. Um And once you like build the discipline to make sure, like whatever schedule you've set, you stick to it for at least three to six months. Then you like it's impossible for you not to learn throughout that process because you're being so consistent with it. And it like on the other end, people are going to be used to you being the person that talks about this topic. And that's how you build like audience for that because they you become reliable as a person to talk about that consistently.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Very true. So there's lots of AI-generated content basically. And I feel like, yes, there's people posting more nowadays, but there's this disconnect of that authenticity. And how do you think you guys have done an amazing job at like Kinso with doing organic growth and getting like above 50 million, 60 million views? How do you do that? Like, what's the best way you would say to someone to like, you know, you want they want to I know you mentioned like consistency is key, but like I think the quality as well is a really important factor.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

So how would you how would you say like if someone is using AI to generate content on 24-7 and is somewhat getting views, but for the long term, like how do you see it?

SPEAKER_03 23:13

Yeah, so I think there's a lot of ways in which AI can be helpful. And I I definitely do use AI within the process, but I would never rely on it. So I think if you're saying something to AI, getting the result, let's say it's a LinkedIn post as an example, you're you're giving it a prompt and then it writes a post for you, and then you just post that as is, there's like almost no chance that that will perform well, uh, unless unless you've actually like written out something or like spoken out something in a lot of detail and it's just polished it for you. But if you're like literally help me think of what to write, then it's not gonna be good because like there's so many other people telling it to do that, so it's just gonna be sound the same as everyone else. I think the most important thing, as you said before, is like that authenticity. Um so the the the way I like to work with like founders is I do a lot of um like recording the meetings I have with them and also having them send me voice notes because when you're speaking, your most authentic voice comes out, like certain words in the your vocabulary that no one else uses or certain phrases that are like sound a little bit weird, but they're like it's very much you. Um and making when when you have those recorded, because when you're speaking it, you're more likely to say it than when you're writing, because when you're writing, you have a bit of time to think and you might change that. Um, so having those implemented in whatever you post is a really good way to ensure authenticity because it's gonna be very unique to you. Um, but the main thing is just like making sure AI is not the one creating. It's like it's really good at refining, and a lot of the time I might like write an entire post manually, send it to AI to like ask it like maybe what would you do to make it more concise or like more engaging? Um, or like I might focus on just a very specific section. It's like give me 10 alternate hooks of this, and like sometimes I'm asking, like, make it most like super out of the box, um, super clickbaity, whatever. Like, and then from there, like some of them may sound really bad, but it might give me an idea. Like, it might be like two words that they use that I'm like, oh, I can bounce off that and create something myself that works. So it's very much like when you use it to collaborate and you're going back and forth, and it's still your creativity that's weaved in between all of its responses, then it's really powerful. But if you're like leaving it up to the the AI to like decide a lot of things and giving it most of the rain, then the the outcome is gonna just be something that gets lost in the noise.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Yeah, very true. Because like I especially in corporate, like especially a little bit. Um, I I hear a lot of people being like, oh, we just see all the AI content like generated from like you know, chat GPT. And I feel like you kind of can tell, like if you know that person a little bit in detail, you can tell if this person's like ridden them, ridden it themselves, or if it's their own thought pattern or their belief, and it's like yeah, I think belief is a huge one.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Like, if if it's something that doesn't even seem like it matches your belief, then that's horrible. Like, why would you want to be putting stuff out like that? Um, but yeah, in terms of like if you are to use AI, I definitely recommend using Clawed. Um it from like what I hear about the engineers using it, they're like Claude is better than all the other ones, but like from a writing standpoint, it's way better. So I found Chat GPT, the more you use it, it just sounds very like you can you can tell straight away that there's been Chat GPT being used, but Claude sometimes is good enough where you actually can't tell. So I I told like one one time I gave it the prompt of like make this post sound really rough, like just an Aussie bloke talking to a friend, and then I started like swearing. Like there was a bunch of like they added a bunch of swear words into it, and I was like, Chat GPT would never do that, yeah. And I was like, like, yeah, went a bit overboard, but like it sounded like really authentic. So um I think like the AI you use is also like can make a big difference.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Very true, very true. Because I feel like everyone now is just using Chat GPT, and like yeah, it's crazy how some people use it as their therapist now, and like you know, and all of that stuff that comes out from it. Um but yeah, I won't I won't go too into too much detail on that.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

Have you used that as your therapist?

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Oh no, I was like, I've been talking to it, like I've I've overheard I or someone's mentioned it to me. They know people of people that have, and it's just really interesting, like because one thing about Chat GPT is it like it kind of like gives you the um the things that you want to hear, like the responses what you want to hear, and very positive, very like everything's honky-dory. Whereas um, yeah, I feel like it's not the case, and I feel like you know, sometimes you need that human connection to actually give you that different perspective of AI's great, I love it, and I use it constantly, and I think it's uh one of those amazing things that like it helps you do a lot of things in a short period of time, but like I don't think that people just you know relying heavily on it, or like the other day I heard someone that was like asked Chat GPT what should I order? I'm at this restaurant, like dude, come on.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

Yeah, that's a bit sad. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Yeah, but I want to go on a little bit into your other ventures, right? Yeah you're doing music, and it's if someone like looks at it, they'll be like, Oh wow, like it's completely different. This person's helping all these people with personal branding, and like music is a true passion to you. Yeah. What does music first of all mean to you?

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Yeah, so I mean I've always just loved music as a listener as a kid, and then I guess it got to a point in high school where I was became more like a curator, and I was always trying to make these playlists that really embody a feeling or a genre, and like I got a other bunch of mates who had a bunch of playlists, so I was always like, I just gotta get more followers than them on these playlists. Like I was quite competitive, and I it was like at a point where like they're they'd be playing a really nice song on the speakers, and I would like secretly under the table, like go on Shazam, and like it's because I like didn't want to ask them what the song was, didn't want to give them the satisfaction. Um so yeah, I've always like had been like very passionate and like competitive with like music and music taste, and then I think because I listened to a lot of rap, I um and I liked like singing along to songs or rapping along to songs, and then I just started doing that. And a lot of the artists I listened to like they rapped really fast, like Ski Master Slum God or X. And um so then I would like try to learn their songs, and I think just like in the process of doing that, I I was I I didn't realize, but I guess like maybe um uh some of these really fast songs, like to a lot of people is not just something you pick up straight away, but I think that kind of came quite naturally to me. Then so then I was like, oh like I also really love reading and writing. Why don't I just like do it, try to do some of my own? And that's kind of how I started. And it was a lot of just like it helped me through like when when I was feeling like really sad or whatever, like shitty emotions. That's kind of like when I would write about it. Um, and then that would turn into a song. So it was like a really good way of me channeling some of those like darker emotions into something that could be positive, something that could like help other people feel like they're related to. Um so yeah, that's that's kind of how like the music thing came around, and it still to this day I'd say it's like music is my therapy. Um because it I don't journal, but I feel like writing my music is like my version of journaling because it just helps me like introspect, learn more about myself, and and then it turns into something like artistic and creative um rather than something that's private, so something that can be shared. So yeah, that's that's what I love about music and like more recently, like I've always loved I think I've always loved singing more than rapping, but I just like could not sing. So like recently I've been like trying to learn how to sing in the past year and get better at that. Um so a lot of like the recent songs that I have like plant planning to release next year are gonna have a lot more singing in it. So yeah, that's that's kind of the the thing about music, but like it I I guess a link to that with what I'm doing, like marketing and branding and all that is like if I didn't do music when I was like in year 10, then I wouldn't have like developed the the desire to get good at marketing so early because I was like, if I'm gonna make music, what's the point of making something that no one listens to? So like from from that early age, I was always like, okay, so how can I post this on social media so more people can listen? And like how can I promote it? So it was always about learning how to like get attention for something that you're creating, and I think that transferred because I was like, okay, there's not a lot of money in music marketing out of like all the different marketing areas, like music marketing is quite quite low, but then I I just started liking marketing in general, and then I was like, what can I apply this to? Like marketing for brands, whatever. And then because I was really interested in founders, it's just like the intersect of like building brands and marketing and distributing for founders, um, just made a lot of sense, and that's where like that passion arose from.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Do you think your superpower is curiosity?

SPEAKER_03 32:31

I don't know if it's a I don't I don't I wouldn't say superpower, like that's not the word that comes to mind, but I would say I am definitely like curious. And and I think like without being curious, it's just like you just get bored. Cause then like what are you gonna if if there's no questions to ask, um, and you feel like you know everything you want to know, then like what what is the point of life? Like what's what's new? So I don't know. It's like I definitely agree I am curious, but I don't know if I wouldn't like really say it's a superpower.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

How would you describe yourself in like one word? What do you think like that people would just look at you and just be like, oh, this this is like you know, this is Braith?

SPEAKER_03 33:09

Um word weird. I think that makes sense, yeah. I wouldn't say I'm very normal, so yeah, maybe weird, but it's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

I mean it's the best place to be. Like, why why be like, you know, why do why do things that everyone else does, right?

SPEAKER_03 33:26

Yeah, yeah. And I think um some I've learned this in psychology before, but like your name is like a pretty good predeterminant of which city you move to or like what job you choose. Like a lot of people with the name George, like there's a disproportionate amount of people with the name George who live in the Georgia, for example. And then like a lot of people who are I don't know, maybe if your last name is like Stone, you might be like a geologist, and and it's and they've done like this is proven by facts, like there's disproportionate amounts of people where their name relates to where they live or what job they choose, stuff like that. And um, I think for me, I've never met another Asian guy with the name Braith. And like Braith itself is just not super common of a name. So I think like my my parents always said like they they were deciding between like Braith and Cameron, and I'm very happy they didn't choose Cameron because um I feel like a lot of the stuff, as you said before, like the curiosity and stuff like that, and and just like enjoying taking like a weirder or like different path is probably like based off my name being like fucking weird. Like because like most people like it I think like more than maybe like 80% of the time when I tell someone my name is Braith, like they either don't like can't comprehend it because they've never heard it, or they have to ask me a couple times. Um yeah, so like I've had people who like even a year into a year into knowing me was saying my name wrong. Oh no, yeah, yeah. Oh no. So it's like um, yeah, I'm very much used to it, but um, I think that might be like a a reason like why I've turned out the way I am, like based on the name itself.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Yeah, I feel I feel like it does have an impact, like like the name that you choose. Like I've heard that like people like fit into their names in an interesting way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I'm really curious to know, like, what is like one thing that you've really had to let go of or unlearn, or you were doing it, and then you were like, Oh my god, this is completely wrong. Like, what's that like or a mindset that's completely shifted the way you view things? Like, what is it?

SPEAKER_03 35:39

Yeah, so this one comes to mind straight away. It's not like a huge crazy one, but I remember like when I was still in uni and just like looking at internships, like the advice I'd been given is like, don't do an internship that doesn't pay. Because it's like whatever you do, you should get paid for it. And so, like, that's the only advice I'd been given. So I kind of held that belief, and um then I then like I started coming across people who were like doing unpaid internships. Like, one of the ones was like Startmate, which is like part of Blackbird. And um, I didn't do the program itself, but like I went to a bunch of events where the the like start mate cohort came together, and like that's like still to that day a lot of like my good like start startup friends is like people I met through that and um yeah, and and then like I realized like after a while when I started like trying to create um content for people for free in order to like develop a relationship with them or like eventually like show them that if I can do this for you for free, it would be worth like um actually paying for me to do this for you long term. Then I realized like nah when you're early in your career, like doing free work is like so worth it. And and like not even early in your career, I'd say like even to this day, um, the way my my bosses talk about it is unreasonable hospitality. And that means like going above and beyond and providing so much hospitality to your customers and and like giving them so much stuff out of your own pocket, whether it be monetary or time-based, that they're like, this is this is like crazy, right? And and like the feeling you get from that builds so much trust and like relationship that anything you do in the future, it just like is so much smoother. Like people will want to champion you, they want to refer you like work, they want to use you themselves if it's relevant. Um, and a lot of opportunities just comes off the back of like doing stuff for free, whether it whether it is like time or money that you're giving away. Um, so I think that's been the biggest shift because there was a point where I was like, I've been told this advice, you know, if you're gonna do any work, you should be paid for it. But I think especially for people early in their career, it's just like if you're aim if you're aiming high and the positions you're trying to get into have a lot of competition, you have to do something that goes above and beyond. And a lot of the time it is like giving away free value. And whenever I I remember when I was applying to a bunch of startups, most of them like were very early stage, so they didn't have um they didn't have like any marketing-related role, but I was still like trying to cold DM people. And the way I'd do it was like look at the problems that I could solve for them. Let's say it is in a social media space. So I would analyze their competitors, see what the competitors are doing better, see how they could adopt that. And then outside of competition, like what are the unique things they could do better, what are things they're already doing well they can double down on, create like a one to two page document outlining all those things and provide that for free. And that's like hours, maybe even like a couple days of free work that I've done for them. But that got me the conversations, and like even if it didn't land a job, a lot of the people that I talk to within those companies, they're like, oh, like anytime something comes up relevant to this, I'll like refer you to it. And like, so it always comes back in a positive way when you go above and beyond to do things for free to provide value. Um, and I think for anyone early in their career, like that's the best way to get your foot in the door.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

And I think it exposes you to a lot of uh different experiences as well, right? I like I really find that viewpoint very interesting because I've heard that a lot as well. Like it there shouldn't be any unpaid internship and all of that. And I think I really value that. And I and I guess like it one thing that my mentor always tells me is like, you know, you're planting seeds constantly, right? And like, you know, and the more you plant, then later on, you know, and you nurture it in a way, like you don't don't know like when it will come when you look back to it, what kind of like flower or tree or whatever you've grown, but like you've built, like you know, you're you're trying all these different things that you know, and that makes sense to you one day. And um and yeah, like do as many things as you can because sometimes you know there might not be an opportunity to get paid for that, and then you're not allowing yourself to gain that experience from someone that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 40:06

Yeah, for sure. It's like if you're trying to get an opportunity from someone that has a lot of other people applying, yeah, and you have to do something that stands out. Yeah, um, and a lot of the time it is showing like you've put a lot of time and effort and done something that usually would cost money, yeah. Um, but you've done it for free.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

I'm really curious, Braith. Um, has anyone ever like come up to you and said, like, oh, you're too young to do what you're doing?

SPEAKER_03 40:31

Or like just doubt you for your age or like there might have been job applications where maybe I've applied for like a role that was like more senior, that maybe they'll say something like that. But for like all the work I'm doing currently, I think the reason they don't is because when the intersection of like what I'm doing is like basically brand building and and social media and marketing for founders. So a lot of founders are like they've got like 10, 20, 30, 40 more years of experience than me in whatever they're doing, but they haven't been using social media and they haven't been doing posts, so like to them, I have like way more experience in that, and that's what I'm trying to help them with. So then it's like they're very much aware of that, so they wouldn't be saying, like, oh, you don't know what you're talking about because the the specific area I'm trying to help them with, I do like know a lot more of just because I'm like as same as you, Gen Z, and we've grown up using social media a lot. Um, so yeah, I I don't really can't really think of many instances where that that has come up. Um, and I think especially now we're trending towards something where like all these young people, like it's actually a benefit when you're in like tech that like you're young, because then people know that like tech is always evolving. So the younger you are, the more like on the pulse you are with that sort of stuff, and like that's why you see all these like people getting backed by YC who are like super super young, like 16-year-olds or whatever. Um, and I think that's like the new trend where yeah, it's actually a benefit to be young if you're like within tech. I I'm also aware that like um there's this guy called Stu, who was a ex-CEO of Zambrero, and he grew it from like I think two to like 99 stores. He's just sits like across from us in the office, so like very lucky to like just chat with him every now and then. And then he mentioned that for him when he was starting, I think he was only 24, and like trying to get spaces, like because it's physical restaurants, and um that's when people would like doubt him a bit because of age, because it's like the people that need to trust him might be like mum, mums and dads who like this is their whole livelihood, so it's like they're depending on a very young guy if they're gonna like become like a ri uh retailer there, whatever, something like that. So I I think like different spaces will have people doubting you based on age because of the context, but like I think because I'm mainly in tech, then it hasn't happened to me too much.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Yeah, interesting. And what's the next chapter that you're looking forward to like in your world? Like, where do you see yourself? Where do you see like what kind of impact it is that you want to make in the next phase of your life?

SPEAKER_03 43:25

Straight off the bat, like with Kinzo, that's the main focus going into next year because we're we've been building this like this whole year, just building distribution for this company and and trying to get as many eyeballs and people knowing about it and build up the community. But next year is when we're properly launching it, and that's when the real test comes. And that's like even if people know about it, um, how can you make sure they are actually wanting to, you know, buy the buy the product, use the app, and and you know, actually improve their lives with it. And so that that's the main focus, right? So Um we have like pretty big goals for that. We want to we want to be as big as possible. Um so I like for me it's pretty short term, like building Kinzo to as big as it can be. For my own like LinkedIn agency where I help founders build their brand, I'm gonna continue scaling that um because now I've like got a lot more things in place where I'm like I can continue delivering the same amount of value, um, but get really good people in place where it's less of my time, um, and then I can help more people do it. And that's that's something I'm learning like day-to-day how to do because like a lot, a big part of it is like, okay, so then how can you find the right people to put in those positions? How can you train them well enough so that they can do it? Um so like that's that's another thing for my my own focus, I guess. Um and yeah, I mean, outside of that, um, I'm just gonna continue enjoying like music, and like I got a bunch of songs that are basically ready to release, just need to put like final touches on on the sound, but also film like visuals for it. So, like um, yeah, film sharing stuff about that. Um and I guess like personally just like remaining remaining consistent with the gym and um like maintaining good relationships with like a small amount of people where it's like close family and friends. Because I think the when when you're in a space where you're like doing a lot of networking, meeting a lot of new people, then it fills up your calendar a lot. But then at the end of the day, on like the best way to nurture like your closest relationships is to be consistent with like your closest friends and family. How can you consistently support them, like give each other time and stuff? So, like that's also like another focus, I guess, more personally going into next year.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

Oh, that's amazing. I'm really looking forward to seeing like hearing seeing your journey online and like hearing all about it, and like I know that we're gonna make so much impact. And by the way, you're very, very talented. I've listened to your music as well whilst I was doing the research on the podcast. So yeah, no, we'll definitely leave um the details on the show notes. But um, to end things off, if you know there's one thing that in those moments that you've had, dark moments you want to call it, moments that you had so much doubt, so much confusion. What's one thing that you wish someone told you um that would have changed those moments for you?

SPEAKER_03 46:35

I I think like when you dark moment of doubt, like the only time I've like been up all night restless where it wasn't like a personal reason, it was more like career-wise, is like um I think I was applying to a bunch of like corporate jobs at the time. And a lot of a lot of the ones I had like there was like an Apple job, a Deloitte job that I like gone to the very last stage of and didn't didn't pass that very last one. But like the nights where I was like waiting for the response, that was that was of like a dark time where I was just like super anxious every day. And it worked out great because I think it pushed me towards like starting my own thing and building my own connections where I was like through the blog and and the podcast, actually connecting with people I was more passionate about, which is like founders. Because I at the point, like the only reason I'd apply to those like bigger companies was just like, well, that's like places everyone wants to get to, has a big name. Like I can put this on LinkedIn and then people will be like, oh, this guy's actually like successful, but it wasn't it wasn't like an intrinsic desire. Because like I think intrinsically I've always wanted to like work with a small group of people to have a big impact where everything you do, um, because it's such a small group, like has a huge sort of like cost, whether it's whether it's like something you mess up has a big consequence, or something you do well has a like a big benefit. Just like, yeah, it pushed me towards like having a lot more agency with how I like connect with people, but also like the sort of work that I do. Like what I could have said to myself in that moment is just it may feel shit now, but there might be a reason for that. And and I guess the reason is because like it redirected me to where I actually wanted to be, not not where like I had formed this image of where I would want to be because like I was just trying to like please externally what what I thought other people would think was cool, but like it made me find what I actually think myself is cool, so yeah, I think that's it.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

No, I I sometimes believe like hearing no's sometimes when you're in the process of doing things, it's making in a different direction. Like I think it's giving you a different direction to find your purpose and make sure that what you're doing is really truly aligned to you. And yeah, like I feel like we've all been there in terms of like the moment of rejection and like things like that. But um, I feel like things happen for a reason, and and I think it's like a way of like, you know, as you said in your conversation earlier today, in terms of you're clearer on communicating or you find different path that um works well for you. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:18

I mean, it's also like I think the the weird thing is like when you find what's actually right for you, it's a lot easier. So if I just compare like those final interviews I had at like Apple and Deloitte versus like jobs that I have gotten, um those those other interviews I I like over prepared, and like I would spend so long like perfecting what I'm gonna say and researching and all that. And then when you get into the spot, it's like um sometimes you'll force yourself to like try to make their question match what answer you had prepared, and then you're not natural, and the whole time you're feeling uncomfortable, and the energy overall is uncomfortable. But then it was like for the the jobs I had gotten, the interview itself, I would like barely prepared, just brought like my own natural self, and like the the type of work I put in is like what I developed a habit of is like trying to find problems, create a document, present that. But I I wouldn't I wouldn't try to like think of like they're gonna ask me this question, let me think of how I can answer that. I was just like being very honest and and like whatever came to mind, and those are the things that actually turned out because I think like that's where you were meant to be. Um, so I think like that's that's also like an interesting thing looking back, is like when you find where you're actually meant to be, things are actually a lot easier and smoother. And like sometimes things are hard because it might just not be the right thing for you, and it might be the right thing for someone else, and and and it will might be easier for them. So I think that that's like another another thing I've realized.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

Yeah, yeah. I feel like when you show up as your very authentic self, you gravitate the people that are meant for you as well. Yeah. There's seven, how many seven, eight billion people out there in the world?

SPEAKER_02 51:02

A lot of people, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

You literally gravitate the right people that are meant for you, I guess, by just showing up and being yourself. And yeah, as you said, it's easier when when you shop as yourself, you're not hiding behind any mask, you're not doing anything, and you're actually somewhere where energetically it flows, and also you feel happy being there, and you want to do the best that you can to either get an outcome or and you believe in that vision that people have.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

So yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

Yeah, well, thank you for being here today.

SPEAKER_03 51:34

Yeah, thank you very much for having me on, Maddie. It was a great chat.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

Oh yeah, and um, yeah, and we'll leave your details in the show notes. And honestly, like Braith is amazing, guys. Like, just follow him along.

SPEAKER_03 51:46

Well, no, like likewise, I mean, like, yeah, this is I can't believe this is like you said only your eighth episode. Yes. Yeah, and you're like already such a great host.

SPEAKER_02 51:54

And like everything looks great. Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 51:57

But it looks way better than like a hundred times better than whatever my eighth podcast would like. So yeah, like really keen for your journey as well.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

Oh, thank you, thank you.