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Your Next Step with Mahdieh Rassafiani
Honest conversations with founders, entrepreneurs, and changemakers daring to do things differently.
Your Next Step with Mahdieh Rassafiani
Ep 11: The Finance Expert: Most People Shouldn't Start A Business! Do This Instead || Stephen Mitchell
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Everyone talks about finding your passion. Stephen Mitchell built his career by ignoring that advice completely.
He grew up in Western Sydney, opened one of the first small group training gyms in Surry Hills, built a genetic testing startup that ran out of money, then accidentally fell into car finance after losing it all. Now he runs Nexus Advisory, a boutique brokerage helping founders access the debt they need to scale.
In this episode Stephen (founder of Nexus Advisory) and I talk about why "do what you're good at" beats "do what you love", the biggest mistake founders make when they borrow money, why Australia's capital is stuck in property while America's flows into business, and why sometimes the smartest move isn't being the founder at all.
This one is for anyone who feels lost about their direction, is thinking about borrowing to grow, or wonders whether the founder path is actually for them.
WHAT WE COVER:
- Why "do what you're good at" is better advice than "do what you love."
- Falling into your career by accident and making it work anyway.
- The one thing lenders actually want to see before giving you money.
- Why Australian capital hides in property while American capital backs business.
- How broker commission structures quietly trap founders in bad loans.
- The red flags that expose a predatory lender in under a minute.
- Minimising losses when you're naturally a risk-taker.
- Why being a great 2IC can be just as rewarding as being the founder.
- Increasing your luck surface area by broadening your skillset early.
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 — Subscribe + welcome
00:27 — Who is Stephen growing up in Western Sydney and feeling lost
04:41 — From a Surry Hills gym to a genetic testing startup, and what killed it
09:12 — Imposter syndrome and the moment he actually felt like a founder
10:56 — Falling into finance by accident: car dealerships, boiler rooms and starting his own brokerage
15:32 — Risk appetite, control issues and why he'd never answer to a board
18:17 — Selling the gym, vendor finance regrets and his one piece of exit advice
20:41 — The biggest mistake founders make when borrowing money
24:03 — Australia vs the US: property obsession, conservative capital and private credit
30:42 — Money, risk and momentum: what he wishes he knew 15 years ago
33:09 — Why this generation is so serious, and the truth about authenticity online
42:17 — Why Nexus stays boutique, and how broker commissions quietly hurt founders
45:44 — How to avoid predatory lenders (his red flags are so simple)
48:28 — The advice every Australian founder needs to hear
53:22 — Legacy, kids and why his next step is the simplest one yet
CONNECT WITH STEPHEN MITCHELL
LINKEDIN — https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-mitchell/
INFORMATION ON NEXUS ADVISORY
WEBSITE — https://www.nexusadvisory.co/
LINKEDIN — https://www.linkedin.com/company/nexusadvisory/posts/?feedView=all
CONNECT WITH MAHDIEH
IINSTAGRAM — https://www.instagram.com/mahdieh.rassafiani/
LINKEDIN — https://www.linkedin.com/in/mahdieh-rassafiani-97611a185/
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INSTAGRAM — https://www.instagram.com/yournextstep.pod/
Before we start this episode, I have a huge favor to ask. If you've been enjoying the conversations with our incredible guests where we talk about mindset resilience and why they're doing the things they're doing, I'd love you to subscribe to your next step with Madi Rasafiani on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. It's the best way to grow the show and bring on your favorite guests, but also making sure it's reaching the people that need to hear it the most. All right, let's get into it. But thank you for your time today and being on the podcast. But before we begin and everything, who is Stephen Mitchell before any title or business? And what shaped you to become like an entrepreneur and start your own thing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so before I was doing anything with my own business, I suppose I was probably a little bit lost to be honest with you. I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I was studying like economics, I was at uni. I always had the idea of being like this, you know, doing something in the city in a suit. And you know, I never knew back then what that was, right? I didn't kind of grow up in an environment which was like maybe conducive to knowing what that kind of corporate life was like. Grow up in Western Sydney, a little bit of more of a low socioeconomic area. So I didn't really know what I wanted to do. And then I was working in fitness and gyms, and I was naturally really good at sales. And so I just kind of knew that that's what I wanted to do, something where I talked a lot, I suppose. Right. So um, in terms of like who I was, yeah, I was a little bit lost. I kind of knew what I wanted to do, but I kind of diverted from that path a bit earlier on, and then yeah, funny enough, kind of came back to that in my late 20s, early 30s.
SPEAKER_00Take me to the moments where you felt lost. What was going through your mind? Like, because I know there are people now, you know, they're at different life stages in life and they may be feeling that sense of I don't know what the thing that I'm doing is right, or you know, I I don't find anything that I'm doing interesting. How did you like overcome that? Do you still feel that today?
SPEAKER_02No, not anymore. Now I'm pretty kind of aligned with where I want to go and I'm very comfortable with what I'm doing. I really enjoy what I'm doing. Um, I suppose what maybe what what got me through being lost, is that is that the question? Yeah, so I suppose it's just it's it's a hard question, actually. I don't really know. Like it just I suppose I call I just kind of fell into doing finance again by accident, right? Kind of lost some of money and had to go do something with money, and all of a sudden it was it was um car finance, right? So then I just kind of fell into that and then it developed into Nexus, what it is now, but I think how I found what I'll do. I don't know, I just stumped me on that question, I don't really know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh like for I I sometimes feel lost as well, to be honest, um, because there's so many exciting things I want to do, but I haven't solely landed on something that and then I'm like, you know what, this is it, this is what I want to do, and this is like my forever. Not saying that you know you can't pivot once you even even I know people find something interesting that they want to do, but then they realize 20 years down the line they want to do something new. That's totally fine. But I think it's um one thing that I get more clear and I get more clarity is like doing different things to understand, even if I don't want even if I know that I don't want to do it, it's an answer. And I'm I become more clearer, it's not a question in my mind.
SPEAKER_02So I think I mean to answer if you if you're lost, I mean you want to do something you're good at, in my opinion. Like there's something you enjoy, you get all this fluff around, do something enjoy, do you want to love it? Like anything you do, like if it's starting a business, if it's any kind of job, there's gonna be things in that job or if part of operating a business you're gonna hate. You can't love everything, right? So you've got to do something you're good at because the better you are at it, the easier it's gonna come to you, and the more likely you are to kind of pursue it. So I think if if you are lost, like I always go back to kind of personality types a lot, right? So, you know, you don't want to have someone that's an introvert that's super analytical as a real estate agent. It's just not gonna work. Like it just, they're probably not gonna be as good as other agents out there. And then vice versa. You don't want to have an extrovert that's not at no attention to detail, they just love speaking to people all day. They can't be a credit analyst. It's a completely different um mindset, it's a completely different kind of the character of those people are inherently different, right? So you wanna you wanna really do something that you're good at. I think that's that's the third first thing that you want to pursue.
SPEAKER_00But going back to your journey, you first started a gym at Sarre Hills, then you went into bioinformatics. Because they're two completely different things, right? How did you how do you connect those dots and how how did you like pivot from there to there and now to finance?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so so the the they are and they're not, right? So bioinformatics and the genetic testing company, which we kind of built, was basically doing your predisposition to lifestyle diseases, nutritional genomics and fitness genomics. So obviously, when I had the gym, we were, you know, running classes and operating the gym. And I was just online and I actually don't know how I found it, but it was like 23ME, Google's genetic testing. And I remember it popped up something around about, you know, know your something to do with your genetics, like something to do with fitness. It might have been like VO2 Max or power. I think it might have been power and endurance. And I was like, oh, this is interesting. Um, you can get your genetics testing for power and endurance. And I kind of I I I I resonated with it a bit because you know, you get people that are naturally good at endurance, like long, long distance running and VO2 Max, and you get some people that love just lifting heavy weights. So um anyway, did the did the did that test and got some results back and it gave me a little kind of simple one pager thing, right? And I was like, all right, well, maybe I can like this is pretty interesting. You could basically build uh fitness programs based off this for someone, right? Because if someone came into your gym and they wanted to lose weight, what most people do, then if they were more predisposed to endurance genetics, but you got them doing strength training to start with, then they're probably not gonna like it. Again, back to my do what you're good at thing, right? Like they're not gonna like it, they're not gonna be as good as it, they're more likely to quit. Whereas if you put them and say, Oh, let's do a little 3K run to warm up and let's like do more, like let's do bodyweight squats and more, you know, more endurance-based kind of um movements, then they're probably more likely to stick to it, right? And I kind of just knew that from being in the gym and and seeing things. So yeah, just that started the journey of just trying to work out what genes you can get tested. And I spent like days, like just hours and hours every day, like in the gap. So my classes would finish at like eight or nine o'clock in the morning at the gym, and then between then and lunchtime, I'd have like a four-hour gap. I'd be online just learning about genetic testing and where we can get it done, how you can get it done, and the gap between two and five, same thing. So, um, and I was a lot more kind of entrepreneur, I should say, I would say back then. So I really wanted to get something off the ground, and I suppose I didn't really know how hard it was back then to do something like this. So um, and I love that, I love the whole building, building something new, right? So yeah, just kind of went on that journey and you know, uh realized that you can't do genetic testing here in Australia because you need to have um TGA accreditations, which were very hard. So we kind of um bypassed that because you can get testing done overseas, you can get the results sent back to you, so we can get the raw data sent back to us and we can make the reports. That's what made us partner with a company over in India, which did all the um DNA analysis and things like that.
SPEAKER_00Was it hard for people to trust that at that time? Because I read a lot of things around that people, you know, they're like, Oh, you don't want to give out too much of your information. Was uh did you have challenges that you had to overcome?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so back then, not so much. Uh we unfortunately that business didn't um quite take off. We only probably tested about 50 to 70 people. I can't really remember exactly how many we sold or gave away, but it wasn't a great deal. It was a bit more kind of testing the market. But unfortunately, what happened with that business was we we developed this big huge report that essentially wasn't really what the client wanted. And yeah, we spent a lot of money and effort into building this big report. We should have kind of maybe tested the market. I had the gym. We should have just turned my gym into a gene fit gym, whatever I had to term it back in the day, and started doing it. And it could have just been so simple as just your V, you know, your power genetics versus insurance genetics, and we give you programs based on that. Should have started super simple like that, but um back then, no. But obviously, since then, and probably since COVID, unfortunately, a lot of distrust now. Um, so you know, you yeah, it'd be very difficult now to get people's genetics, it'd be super difficult. But I think I I think the business up to like especially during them COVID times when when you know that some of these startups were just getting stupid valuations, I probably think we would have killed it. Yeah. So if I could have executed on it up until then, it would have been good. But yeah, unfortunately, we kind of packed it in. I re the business, um, the the our us two founders ran out of money um, you know, that we wanted to put into it. I'd go get a job, ended up in finance, so it worked out all right anyway.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Amazing. Um, and when did you like I'm curious to know when in your life did you feel like you know, I you're actually a founder and not just someone who started a business and is like doing something and you know, you had that like founder lens on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think like I suppose it kind of falls into that imposter syndrome a bit sometimes, right? Like where you're like, am I am I am I really who I say I am? You know, like so I think with finance that probably didn't really hit me until maybe three or four years ago. Yeah, so I was kind of doing this for a few years before I really was like, all right, yeah, I'm a founder now. And I I felt like that I was super comfortable in what I was delivering as a service because there's so many intricacies in finance, and I think some of them I was just learning on the go with the gym super early on. I felt like super comfortable from day one in that environment. Maybe because I worked in gyms for so long, I'd always been in health and fitness since I was like a kid. So yeah, so with the gym, I I felt super comfortable super early on. Yeah, I was going to like Philex and which is like a bit Australia's big kind of fitness expo and conference, and going to all the seminars and stuff like that at like 20 and 21, and you know, there was all the other business owners and stuff there. So by the time I opened mine at like 20 actually don't even know how old I was, it was 2011, so however old I was then past five years or 25, yeah. So I was 25. I was yeah, I just felt super comfortable straight away in that in that space. But the financing has been a bit tricky. Yeah, the finance did take me a few years. I definitely felt a lot of imposter syndrome, a lot of things I didn't know. Even now I don't know a lot of stuff, but I just I don't I I I say I don't know it, like you know, with different kinds of finance structures and warrants and convertible notes and you know tag along rights of equity. Like I just I don't need to know that I do debt, so but yeah.
SPEAKER_00Going back to you as saying and you fall accidentally into finance, why finance? Like, what did it excite you at the time? And now you're saying you help a lot of people with debt. How did you get into that? Yes, because from gym to finance, yeah, I know I fought, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Usually a lot of people go the other way around, right? They're in finance and have a big career in finance and they go into fitness because that's their passion, they love it, they want to do something healthy. I suppose mine was a little bit less sexy, and essentially I needed to, I had a lot of expenses, right? So I had my gym, um, had my own business for a long time. You know, we had kind of like, you know, two to three hundred members, you know, up, up and down as soon as I opened, basically, because we were in the only small group training facilities in Sydney, then learn in Surrey Hills. There was no F 45s, there was no, like that this didn't exist. It was basically inside boot camps. There was CrossFits and that was it. So, and there was like Les Mills classes. So we were we were like legitimately one of the first ones. So it was super successful early on, and so obviously I had a fair bit of income coming in from a young age. So when I sold a gym and then was just getting a small kind of you know repayment back for it, I needed to kind of go get a job. So, and I just had to ask around, and like some people were telling me, like, you know, I was asking around a few people that I knew and some kind of mental, like mini mentors of mine, and people were saying, like, yeah, you can sell properties off the plan, your Metricons wized on homes, they you know get 20, 30 grand a sale and and all this stuff. So that's what I did pursue to start with. I went and had about six, seven interviews. I actually went pretty far with Metricon. They wanted me to move to some, they they were doing some new developments, which I'm sure are all done now, up kind of might have been Central Coast Newcastle way. I'm not sure exactly where it was, but that meant I had to go up at the at the um display homes up there. And you know, I was in Bondi at the time, and I was like, I didn't really want to do that. Then I went for another job at one of the other home providers, and he just kept harping on about working weekends, and I was just like, that's all right, I've understood what I need to do. Like he just was, it just was he was a bit negative with everything. So I was just like, whatever. And then another mate, another kind of older guy, which I knew, he goes, Oh, you know, he's he's like, mate, why don't you just go work in the car dealerships? I'm like, car dealerships, what do you mean? He goes, Yeah, the guys, you know, that do all the finance, they make about 200 grand a year. I'm like, sweet. So I went and got a job at a car dealership, and then you know, just on Paramount Road, if you if you're in finance, you kind of understand the story where I'm getting at with this kind of Paramount Road car dealership. But anyway, so I worked there. I was there for about a week or so and I had an argument with like got into an argument with a bit of a battle with another broker about a client. And then funnily enough, that broker worked with one of my mates who worked at that brokerage, and then you know, he must the my name must have come up or something in the conversation. And then my goes, I know that guy. And then he got to the phone to me, he goes, mate, what are you doing finance? And I said, Yeah, I'm in finance. He goes, uh this car dealership. He goes, mate, come work, come work for us. I go, No, it's all right, I got a job. He's like, Um, yeah, come work for us. We don't work weekends, you know, because it was only Monday to Friday job. I'm like, all right, sweet, I'll see you tomorrow. And then so, yeah, so went there and um, you know, it was like that, it was like, you know, it was called Stratton Finance, believe it or not, still around today. And back then it was a bit more like the Wolf of Wall Street. It was, you know, it was kind of really, really high level, like 40 guys in there, super high-level sites, sales guys, like people would come in within a couple of weeks, they'd they'd be out, like really kind of boiler room stuff. You get 40, you come in, you got 40 leads on a Monday, you're calling them all, you know, who's interested in the finance of cars? You know, it's a real, it was a real kind of it was a real kind of higher sales collecting marketing kind of job. But anyway, it was it it was I I enjoyed it, yeah. It was good with the team. And like, I never had a job. Like I had a job in like early 20s at a gym out west where I grew up in Mount Droid. And then for 10 years, I never had a job. So I never had to be anywhere. So had to be out there at 8:30 in the morning, had to didn't couldn't leave till 5.30 at night. They were really big on the time in there, this this one, this this company. But to be brilliant, still to this day, like it was probably one of the best enjoyable times of my life, right? You're just out there with the guys, and you know, everyone's like high performance. Since then, most of the guys in there have gone and started their own finance companies as well. So I guess it's kind of show you the level of the the brokers and and stuff that were in there. But yeah, that's kind of that that's what started the journey. But then, yeah, me being me, you know, don't like getting told what to do. So after about six months, I kind of worked out that I could get my cert four and go get some accreditations, which unfortunately it's a lot harder now for brokers to kind of do it. But yeah, I just went and started my own. I left there after about six, seven months, and um, I made sure that I was one of the top brokers in there before I left. I think in one of the couple of months there I finished on top of the board, which I was pretty happy with with no referrals compared to some of the other guys. I'm sure that I'm sure if they listen to this, they'll pull me up on it. But I think I was the best when I left. But yeah, I didn't want to just start my own um my own finance company.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. But one common trait I see with you is that based on like, you know, in our first catch-up and now is you that you're not afraid of trying and doing new things, which I think in a founder it's very, very important.
SPEAKER_02Have you always been like, has there been always this characteristic trait of like you've always like, you know, you're fear fearless starting new things, or yeah, I think my I think my kind of my ability to to like accept risk is like pretty, pretty is is very, very high. And sometimes it hasn't worked out for me, right? You know, the genetic testing company, uh I did some property developments and stuff as well. So yeah, it it it it's good in a way because I can I can move in on things pretty quickly. Um I see a lot of the positives first. I'm a bit off the I'm pretty optimistic, so like I always see a lot of the positives for any of the negatives as well. But yeah, I'm I'm a pretty risk-on kind of guy. I've had to try and I've yeah, it's it's actually something I've tried to wind back over the last couple of years just because I probably need to wind it back a bit. But I am a risk-on guy, so I just it does risk does not bother me, yeah. I don't stress about risk. I I risk doesn't keep me awake at night, right? Like if I've taken a risk on something, that's not what keeps me awake. What I I I hate not being in control. That that's some some of those things can make me can kind of like so that's why like I like doing my own things, my own business. Because I like being in control, right? So I don't like having any I don't like being beholden to anyone, which is why I probably wouldn't have been good if I raised equity in any of my startups. I wouldn't have I wouldn't have liked having board meetings and reports and I want to touch on the control part, right?
SPEAKER_00So is that just like in business that you have the need to wanting to be because personally I want to like I don't like being told what I do. I I I feel like I have similar traits to what you're saying. Has that like has that transferred into your like personal life of like wanting to control everything?
SPEAKER_02Or is it just like in business that you're it's mate, like like I have a real issue with authority, I suppose. Um, so I don't like getting kind of told what to do. I don't like having someone control anything. I like being in full control. It's just how I got brought up. I didn't grow up with much discipline, and you know, you kind of what a psychologist would know about it, but you get build like you have grandiosity, which is like a trait you pick up from not having discipline. So that's kind of like inherently in me. That kind of I just don't like getting told what to do. But then in in saying that, then yeah, that obviously leads to other areas, right? So, like I said, like you know, if I raised equity, I would have had board meetings. So I don't like not being in control. And obviously in finance, it's tough too, because you are not in control. Like, yeah, you can get the client. So you you kind of got you got too, you got like more than it's not like you just get the client, you sell them. You gotta sell the client, but then you've got to deal with credit, you've got to get it through credit, right? So you've got different stakeholders to manage in in finance, so you aren't in control of the process.
SPEAKER_00I want to go back to when you sold your first business, right? So, and you've exited, is it like what you imagined it would be like, you know, taking the money and like, you know, being financially like set for the rest of your life? Like, did you think of it that way? And if you would go back in time, would you do the same thing that you did?
SPEAKER_02Uh well, hindsight's pretty good. I definitely wouldn't have sold the gym. Unfortunately, with the gym, I I sold it on a vendor finance arrangement. Um, I had no idea about finance back then when I had the gym, so I I just didn't understand the nuances. So we did try and sell it. Um, unfortunately, the sale fell through. It was going to be with one of our PTs and their kind of current partner at the time. Um, but that didn't go through. So we ended up still passing it on to that the current personal trainer that was in there. But yeah, look, they uh unfortunately, you know, being a PT and then running a business are two very different things. Yeah, they they unfortunately kind of couldn't quite keep it where it was. And like at the time, a bit more competition was coming into the area. And so yeah, I didn't really get a lump sum. It was a vendor finance arrangement. So they were going to pay us off over time. I think, you know, in hindsight, if I did sell it, I would have only took a lump sum. But, you know, in in hindsight, hindsight, like take me back to you know, 29-year-old me with the gym at the time, I probably wouldn't have sell it at all. I'd probably go, I'd go into finance and have the gym. I would have had both. I think gyms are very manageable in the scale that I had it out. I had all PTs. I didn't do any of the training, um, any of the cleaning, anything. I just basically did kind of some of the operations and you know, sales to an extent that in some ports, some retention and things. But yeah, I could have ran that and had finance up to probably now, like now, the last probably 24 months, I wouldn't have been able to do both. But I yeah, so I haven't been through an exit per se, like some of say my clients or um, you know, my my partner now at Nexus who have actually been through like full proper exits with earnouts and you know, bigger transactions and audits and things, but for opinion and and not from any experience is that if people that do want to do it, you need to do it way before you want to sell. That's probably the only advice that I've kind of gathered from people that have exited or tried or raised equity in in some kind of form, is like you really want to do it way before you want to do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. What kind of founders and business owners come to you for finance purposes?
SPEAKER_02Are typically uh founders and that are looking to scale and grow and get access to alternative debt outside of maybe the major bank or equity. So that's typically the the clients and the people that we can add the most value to.
SPEAKER_00I've I'm sure you've seen a lot of founders and business owners like come through. What do you what do they do wrong when they come to you? Like what's their challenge? What how do you help them problem solve? And is there like a way of thinking that you have to like you know rewire their brains to think in a certain way?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think probably the biggest issue, which I've really only kind of discovered this is probably the last maybe 18 months, 24 months, is that they really need to show, especially the bigger ticket sizes, you really need to show how you're gonna turn every dollar you borrow into more dollars because the lender wants to see how they're gonna get paid back. And so, and it seems super simple, but how do you communicate that, right? So you either got to have a really strong balance sheet so they can get recoverable, there's recoverable assets if something goes wrong. You've got to have very strong cash flows, which you know show profitability so you can pay that back and amortization, or which is what we kind of do guide a lot of clients towards, is you've got to have, you know, really good financial modeling and forecast. Put together and you can clearly kind of articulate where the business is going, why you need this debt, what it's going to be used for, how much. And I mean, we we we play a role in helping the clients kind of discover that as well. It's very common for a client to come to you and say, I need a million dollars. Well, hang on a minute. What do you need? You mean we need a million dollars today, do you? Like, oh no, no, I need 200 grand for this, and then we're we're gonna where do you get we're gonna open a new store in at this place in in August? I'm like, okay, so you need 200 grand now. That's an overdraft, that's just for you know genuine cash flow, you know, um staffing, etc. But then you need you know 400 grand for a fit out in August. So it's just a it's just about like peeling back the onion and about you know what the client needs, when they need it, and then obviously who the right lender is for that.
SPEAKER_00I want to go back to that, like there's a lot of founders that are always after like capital, and they think that the answer to their problems is like getting more raising more capital. Is it actually the problem that like founders just are always after capital?
SPEAKER_02I grew up in my my first probably two years of finance. I don't think I dealt with a single business that had raised capital. They were really traditional businesses, transport, logistics, you know, civil excavation, trades, things like that. So I think like you know, yeah, in the tech space in Sydney, in the city, like, yeah, there are these founders that want to raise money. But I think like, especially in the current market, you need to have your unit economics sound and you need to kind of be, you know, unless you're a really high growth SaaS kind of bespoke tech product, you you need to probably have like your unit economics all stack up from day one. So you need to have revenue coming in, you know, almost be break even or profit as as close as you can on day one in this kind of current market. Raising capital is difficult, it's it's not easy. There's a lot of nuances to it, a lot of it's who you know, and you need to get in front of the right people and you need to kind of tell the right story.
SPEAKER_00In in like, I'm curious, like in your opinion, like do you think like businesses do well in Australia? And I actually made a LinkedIn post about this. A lot of like I I come across a lot of founders these days that you know they're grow they're starting their business in Australia because you know it's home, it's like they're familiar with things, but the common theme that I see is that they want to grow their business in the US. Obviously, I know there's a popular population aspect of it as well. But do you think Australia has like systems in place in order for a business to grow? What why do you think it's so common that they want to go overseas and explore those opportunities?
SPEAKER_02I think well, we are a small market in a way. Like we I think we're like the sixth largest state in America. If you have our economy, if you take out mining, we're probably like I forgot what I it was like 18th or something when I looked um a few years ago. I tried to like map that out. So I think obviously, yeah, there's a much, much bigger market overseas. I think we are advanced though, like we could probably punch it above our weight in a lot of areas. We're we're pretty like what's the word, Australians? Like, you know, we got to a population, we're very fickle. Like, yeah, yeah, you have to have like your branding, your marketing, your communications has to be really on point here to be a good brand. And I feel like that translates super well overseas. But obviously, the culture, like we have a culture here. Americans have cultures, right? Like if you like, you know, some brands you work with, if you push into LA, you can't push into New York with exactly the same communication and brand style. It doesn't work. They're two different cultures, they're completely different cultures over there. So it's deeper cred, it's got deeper capital markets. Um, money's a lot easier to get there. Like a business here that would raise two, three mil over there, probably raise 20. It's yeah, Australia is very conservative. We want contracted revenues, you know, the people here don't really take a lot of risk. Unfortunately, in Australia, our property market is, you know, this huge capital, you know, intensive it's a beast, right? And so as an investor, when you can make 10, 12, 15% returns investing in property, whether it's investing in commercial property via like some of these kind of big funds or doing private credit, some of the other investment funds and make those kind of returns, why, you know, there's just the money's not there to risk in some of these kind of startups and things like that. And then obviously your big four taking so much market share for so long with the with the with a debt. And yeah, non-banks are there, but I think you know, I think I had just seen this the other day again as well, is that you know, Australia's private credit market is still below 10% of businesses are accessing private credit, whereas in America it's over 50%.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Yeah, that's a massive difference.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So it's just so much of the of the credit here is tied up with the big banks.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And what do you think the problem is? Why do you think, like, you know, for example, the Australian dream is that everyone has how a house, right? Like in today's economy, it's a bit more challenging to do that. But there's a lot of people that their form of investment is just buying property because it's like, you know, they've seen the growth over time, but there's never like encouragement of encouraging someone to start a business. Because if you do start a business, then you know, you hire three or four people, there's money going back into the economy. So it's like it's circulating, but like we're so against that like business building, I guess.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think in Australia, I'll just compare Australia and America, and this is my opinion. In Australia, again, back to these properties, they never go down, they always go up. Everyone you hear, like, oh, yeah, I bought that for a million bucks now, it's worth four million. And so, like, everyone has this thing they're headed. Well, I just buy a house and sit on them, right? Which probably makes sense here. And then because of that, our credit market for property, our our our credit market for property is like super broad. Like it's it's there's so many different lenders out there, there's private lenders that you get seven, you can get sometimes cheaper than maybe not as cheap as banks, but like you can get at super cheap rates, right? But then in America, people invest in equities, right? So they're investing in share markets. And so my belief is that obviously, you know, Americans and that, you know, and and particularly US, they kind of understand business better, probably understand a bit more about balance sheets, profit and loss, how businesses are doing, their tower winds, like where the markets are heading, where Australians just don't have to worry about that. We don't really have these big, huge companies, you know, besides Canva, that have kind of taken off like that. So we're just so heavily invested in property the market here that we just don't have that depth of capital for businesses and startups. And and I'll go back to that point before. Like I took me, I was in finance for a number of years before I'd even met any, before I'd done anything with any business that raised money. Like any kind of equity. It wasn't, I didn't even I did I didn't realise until maybe a few years ago of how well I didn't even know about it when I was doing my genetic testing startup, right? I probably wouldn't want to raise money otherwise, but we I didn't realise how you know much of a thing that was. Like, oh let's start a business, come up with the idea and then go raise money, go raise equity. Like I didn't it wasn't something which I thought about when I was having when I had my businesses.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Where do you see the future of like Australia going in terms of businesses, in terms of like this property market, in terms of like people coming to you? Like, do you see like a trend?
SPEAKER_02Yeah Yeah, I mean in terms of like the long-term vision for Australia, I think we've gotta be careful with our like reliance on banking and mining, and then the government just taxing our wealth away. At the moment, it's very difficult to start and run a business in Australia, the way like the way that taxes are, and you know the amount of kind of red tape that that is associated with with businesses, and so I think you know, long term we probably need to be a bit more business friendly. And in terms of like the finance industry, I mean it's getting pretty like it's evolving, and obviously tech, AI is probably gonna start playing a bigger role. I think you're probably gonna start to see some of these kind of automation approvals and things like that happen. I mean, I always bring this point up. You know, if Commonwealth Bank can't auto-approve a bloody individual consumer residential loan, like forget about anything in the commercial space coming in like that. There's just so many nuances. There's AML issues, there's you know, trusts involved, there's financials, there's cross-correlating data with ATO and BASS and bank statements and receivables ledgers. So I think we're it's probably closer because of AI now, but I think but I still think because of the compliance issues with banking, I still think we're a bit we're pretty far off. But I think there'll just be more products. I think finance will be a bit more accessible as well. And I think, yeah, more and more people are gonna start using kind of non-bank private credit outside of the banks.
SPEAKER_00I want to ask you some reflective questions around your journey. And what do you know about money, risk, and like momentum that you wish someone told you 15 years ago?
SPEAKER_02Uh, 15 years ago, wow. So I think if I would have listened to the advice that I'm not sure about that, but I think it's yeah, you just got to really try and minimize your losses as hard as that is for me to say, because I'm I'm a risk on guy. But me and I've had some big losses, right? Like the whole kind of you know, the gym, then the genetics thing, and then you know, COVID. I like I made heaps of money in COVID. I got in super early in crypto because I was just at home all the time. I was in finance, I was still working, but I was online and like, you know, I made so much money in in that time and you know, lost it all, like we know all the crashes. I luckily took some out and did some property developments, but then you know, did all the property developments and then you know, I started doing them on the tail end of the highest interest rate rises we've ever had. So I think it's just like you know, the the thing is is like the more losses you have, like you know, it's all about compounding interest, right? I probably would have been better off just putting my money into bloody Google or Woolworth shares or something like that. I would have had way more capital than what I had now, rather than trying to do all this stuff, right? So I think it's about trying to minimise your losses, and like I said, it is hard for me to say that, but yeah, I think like money is a is an is a means to an end too, right? Like, what do you want to make money for? I'm I'm massive on lifestyle, so like you know, I'm not a huge like saver per se. I would try and make money, and then if I need if if there's something which I can't like if I need to save or I need to invest, I need to make more money, right? So I've got like a lifestyle which I'm kind of pretty comfortable with now, and I don't like I don't have too many, I don't have big fancy cars, I don't wear like Louis Vuitton or you know, I like flying business class to Europe once a year and skiing in in Switzerland, stuff like that. Yeah, I like buying nice bottles of wine, but I've got a kind of a bit of a lifestyle which I like to live now. But I think you know, money is a means to an end, right? So it just money just cre allows you to have freedom. So that that's all it is. So it's you know, when you chase money for money's sake, you know, I see it with super successful people that they're just chasing this never-ending, you're never gonna get there. There is no end. You've got to really understand what you want. Do you really want to be rich? Because you know what that sacrifice is, like it's gonna be sleepless nights, it's stress, it's probably not as having as good a relationship with your family, not having as good a relationship with yourself, whether it's health-wise, because there's yeah, the most successful people from a money perspective that I've seen sacrifice a lot of stuff that I probably wouldn't want to sacrifice.
SPEAKER_00I see that um a lot, actually. There's lots of contradicting things out there, right? And I when we're having this discussion a bit earlier, we're talking about how 20-year-olds, like people in their 20s, take life so much more seriously these days, they're more like focused on their careers, like you know, not much partying, not much going out, they want to build a life and they have this vision. Why do you think like the generation's gone towards that? Because it is that money, that lifestyle that you know a lot of people are chasing these days, right? But but as you say, like you know, you can endlessly chase it, like you know, because there's only a certain amount of money that you need to survive, to live, to leave some for the next generation. Yeah. But why do you think like this generation is so heavily focused on uh being so serious and doing all these things?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I feel like the gener like this generation, like probably sub-20, maybe sub-30, like yeah, like you said, they are a lot more serious. I feel like they're probably a lot like a lot more risk averse, a lot more conservative, a lot more analytical. I don't know whether it's just because the amount of information they've grown up with that they need to kind of maybe look or hang on, what is this the right information? I mean, I don't know, like it, but it does definitely seem like they're very different to to mine. Like I'm 40 this year, so it feels very different to my generation and how we grew up. I feel like there's a lot less risk takers and yeah, they take life a lot more seriously, a lot more into their health, they don't go out as much, which is not that's not a bad thing, it's probably a way better thing, right? With all the information you hear about alcohol now and how bad it is for you, and that kind of level one carcinogenic. It's like, what is it? Two standard drinks is like having five cigarettes a day. Like, who knows that? Like, I didn't know that growing up, like had no idea it was that bad for you. But it's yeah, they think just young, just very different. I mean, I'm not sure how they're gonna kind of turn out. I think social media is a massive issue for them. I think they're so conscious. Actually, that's that's all right. Someone's a psychologist. No, she was a doctor, actually, kind of mentioned this to me once. She was in one of my rubber run clubs. She thinks that because they've been filmed their whole life, because for cameras and Snapchats and Instagram, because they're always just fear of getting filmed, and like they've just got this, like, like they always are like proper and you know, me growing up never had to worry about getting filmed doing anything, right? So I was just we were just wild. But I think now everyone's super conscious about getting filmed and and put out there like their real selves, that they've got this kind of like stiffness about them, like some of the young kids. Like even how that like you see him on Instagram and they're so like, oh, and they're all happy and blah blah. You see this video and you see the bloke in real life, and he's like, doesn't even he can't even say I remember trying to say hello to this young guy once in Bondi. He was like some ab, you know, he had a great body though on the bloke. And he was like, Oh hey man, I love your stuff. You know, he's personally stuffed about what he eats, and he was like, Oh, yeah, he didn't even know how to like say hello or or like communicate with me. But on his like Instagram, he was all happy and smiling, and and I was like, Far right. It was like he was just acting, right? But I was like, Yeah, he was really good there in front of the camera, but like he just hadn't he had pretty much no personal skills.
SPEAKER_00That's crazy.
SPEAKER_02Made me feel awkward because he was so awkward, and I really, really get awkward.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's a really interesting perspective because like it is like I feel like there's lots of um people that are now putting themselves out there to create content, to put their lifestyle out there, like you know, either to make more money, there's lots of reasons to it, but I've never looked at it in that perspective that you mentioned. But I have met people as well where you see them online and they're completely different to like real life because yeah, they're not authentic, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and that's not who they are. They're just they're the they're just they're this persona.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think, but I think like nowadays the people see through that as well. And you know, I, for example, the creators I follow or the people that I want to look at, I feel that you can really tell that person. Well, you can't really tell, but there's this there's this angle where people are showing more of their authentic life instead of like the happy days and oh, this is what I do every single day, my life is perfect. Whereas like people are really showing that vulnerable side as well. So that I feel like it yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think there's authenticity and vulnerability, but then it's like I still think a lot of people on social medias are putting a show on, you know what I mean? If they are being vulnerable, it's like it's it's act, it's like you know, it's it's the vulnerability for the sake of being vulnerable. I don't know, like how many people are real? Like it, how many people are really who they are on their socials, like Instagram and stuff. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Well, I don't think it's I don't think the platform yeah, but I don't also think the platform allows you to do it because if if you want to really show your true authentic self, like the camera's got to be rolling 24 seconds. Yeah, I know. Right? But it's like, you know, and a lot of the times like people keep certain things as well private as well, like they don't show it, but I think social media has changed so much, like the game of everything. And I think now it's like you hear so much these days that you know, if you want to build your business, you want to build your brand, you've got to be very present, you've gotta, you've gotta like you know, show the ins and outs of it. Like people want to connect with the human side of things. So I think it automatically businesses in order to grow need to do that nowadays, but it's like, you know, how do you show it in the best way that represents you, your business? And you know, it's not like if I'm going somewhere to a business and I'm purchasing something from them, I get a completely different experience to what's shown online.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think like I mean, businesses need to be a bit more authentic, like show what goes on behind the scenes, and it's not, you know, all these kind of nice suits, and like here's my here's my kind of nice looking profile picture. But I think that's probably an area where a lot of businesses can and I mean I don't even do it. That's something which I've it's in my kind of up there planning, you know. But I want to get someone to yeah, follow me around, right? I want to get them to video everything every day, and oh, this one works, like because sometimes I can't, they can't show everything because of the communication and some of the you know conversations I have with clients or lenders, but it'd be good to see like behind the scenes what happen what happens every day, like what we do kind of do. I think people would really like I think they'd be like surprised. Some people just think I play golf and have lunches all day, which is a big part. I do it's it's net I do call it networking, it's my kind of how I get business, but yeah, so I think like you know, they don't really understand the nuances and the kind of just man, the paperwork and the kind of back and forth and the yeah, it's it's can be super frustrating sometimes with that stuff. But yeah, I think just the yeah, I think business can be more authentic, but I think like, yeah, just back to the younger people, it's like they're yeah, I don't know, social media's really the f has defined them growing up, so that that's that's what they are who that's who they are, really. Like they're even the post, like they post all the time, that's part of them, right? Like it's probably I probably just miss that generation a bit. I'll probably yeah, just missed it a little bit, but um, yeah, it's a huge part of them now. Like someone was saying the other day, like I overheard a conversation, or someone overheard a conversation, I think one of my mates, James. He's like, he heard this conversation about these people saying, like, oh yeah, but he's so weird though. He only has like 800 followers, and like, yeah, so that that was weird to them because like he was like whatever he was and didn't have many followers. So these these young girls, it was like it was kind of weird, like, yeah, but he only has like 800 followers. Like, so they thought it was strange. I don't know why or what the what the original conversation was that the context was, but like even that goes to show you like you know, that's where everyone's eyes are now. Like, oh, he doesn't post, he only posts once a month. That's so strange.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. It's crazy to me because like I remember like my childhood was like, you know, I'm I'm 28 this, like I'm I'm 28 years old, but I remember like my childhood, like I would go to the park, I'd do lots of like activities, like you know, I'd like there was lots of human interaction involved, but like now I feel like a lot of the kids like you'd go to a like I went to this family friend gathering and all the kids were on their iPads playing like a game that they were all connected to. And I was like, Do you guys not want to run around, go to the playground, like talk, interact? It was just wild to me. And and it got me thinking that like how things have changed so much, and it's just you know, how we're all just on our phones, like even like it like the other day I was in the metro and like I forgot my headphones and like I was just looking around, everyone was just on their phone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like crazy to me. Like, you know, we don't like not even smiling, like look up, smile at someone or in their own little world, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean we're all guilty of it too, right? Like on that doom scrolling, like yeah, it's yeah, they're definitely. I mean, I don't know if it's I don't know if it's good or bad. Probably not for kids, it's probably not that good for you, but I don't know from adults' perspective, like, is it doing damage? Is it not? Like, I find Instagram funny. Like, I'm like forever seeing like scare pranks and stuff like that. So, like what I'm into. Just I just giggle or day about them. Yeah, so yeah, like Zodem, like, is that bad for me? I don't know. I'm watching like a thousand scare pranks today. I don't know why I still laugh at them, just people getting scared. Yeah, it's it they just I think just the kind of the culture's so different now. It's like our grandparents, right? They would have looked at us growing up with music we listen to and TV. So you kids are weird, you know. Like go out and farm, or I was working when I was 13, you know. We'll be saying the same thing to our generation, like, oh what you you know, you you're not even out of the bar, you're kind of in this like virtual world at the bar, like it just things evolve.
SPEAKER_00But I want to come back to your um to your business and nexus. So you've intentionally chosen to keep it as like a boutique model. Why, why is that? Like, what's your reason behind it? Because like sometimes you know, people are obsessed with scaling, having more people and all of that. But is that like a strategic choice that you're going down this route?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so we want to stay boutique. We want to scale instead of scaling through like volumes of transactions, like instead of doing like a thousand units a month, for example, you know, we just want to do bigger, you know, more structured transactions so you can kind of scale from a revenue perspective in that sense. While we bespoke, I think we want to still stay small and tight because you really want to put we really want to be able to deliver fit-for-purpose funding. So, like, you know, it's a bit of a fluffy word, but I mean essentially you want to give people and the clients the right funding structure for what they need. And unfortunately, as you start to grow and scale a brokerage, there's two ways you can remunerate your brokers. And one is putting them on a huge wage, which I haven't seen any brokerage do and do it successfully. And the second way is remunerate free commissions, and so if they're incentivized to make money via high commissions, the lenders that pay the most amount of commissions are probably the worst lenders for clients. And yeah, there's a space for them in the market, and we do use them sometimes if we have to. If we've got a client picking up a new contract, I mean, at the moment, we've got a client which is like revolution, like doing something in the um um the petroleum kind of industry and petrol, and obviously, you know, it's so he doesn't care. He's willing to pay any kind of interest rate to get the most amount of money to execute on that. So So yeah, that's fit for purpose. But when you see a normal, you know, fish and chip shop show sh fish and chip shop shower who had a quiet Easter who needs to pay wages or stock or something like that or some stock bills, and they're in these like stupidly high interest amortization products. It just, you know, it's just a lot of the reasons are because they get remunerated by these lenders such at such good rates. And a bit of an example is you know, you can make sometimes 10 grand off a hundred thousand dollar loan, which can take two days. So that you can make 10% as a broker on these loans. Whereas, you know, um we've done a deal recently for 1.5 mil trade facility, and we've made 50% of the 15 grand app fee. So it was this thing's taken two weeks, and yeah, we'll get a bit of a trail and stuff like that. We've made seven and a half grand off a 1.5 mil facility, which has taken weeks of back and forth and full financials and the ins and outs and process audits and credit like committees. So, like you can see the discrepancy there. Like, if you're a young broker, well, first of all, you wouldn't even know how to do the trade facility most of the time because no one comes in from they're usually sales guys that come in, not many of them come in with credit unless there are a few good brokerages out there. I'm generalizing here that hire genuine credit analysts that probably do pay good wages and things like that. Um, but and and not as high a ticket of rip remuneration from a um commission perspective. But it's yeah, the industry, yeah, I I think it probably does need a probably a bit more regulation in that sense, like because clients are genuinely going to you and they have no idea about finance. And then, you know, they go online, you know, we can get cash flow lands at this, and and they're just getting stuck in these like terrible loans.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I I think one of the ways, like, especially if if if someone with a business background, I know like some people, I've seen some people like that that don't have like they're not good with finances, and they might see something, they might agree to it, and they they're paying high interest rates, as you say. But how can you like avoid that as a founder?
SPEAKER_02I think as a founder, you need to just you need to really like like you would with launching a Pollock, you need to do you need to do some research around it, right? So yeah, Google online, maybe call some of the bigger brokerages, have a look on LinkedIn, who's popular and shit. Like at the end of the day, if you go to a website for a finance company and there's about page and you don't see any pictures of anyone, or the pictures when you see them, you go to LinkedIn and you can't find them on LinkedIn, you don't know who these guys are. I dare say I'd be staying right away from that brokerage because they probably don't have your best interests at heart, or that lender, for example, right? Private lending in the property spaces is like prime for that, right? If you go to their website and there's no pictures of them guys on there with links to their LinkedIns and their email addresses and their phone numbers, just run because they're probably gonna give you a good offer and get your mortgage and put you in default pretty quickly. But yeah, just do research development, just look who you're getting the finance from. I mean, you're signing contracts, these are commercial contracts, you know, the law is gonna be all behind the lender for all of them. And um, you know, you even if they're in the wrong or they've done something unto all, like do you have the capability and the the money to kind of fight them, like in in court if it if it does go that far? So you just want to make sure that just you do a lot of research, make some calls, and yeah, just get your options on the table, don't sign any commitments, just say you want to get some indicatives, you know. And unfortunately you have to send them all your financial information too.
SPEAKER_00So yeah. It's simple advice, but I don't think like a lot of people follow through sometimes because like they see the first offer, and if they're not that experienced, they might just go, yep, I'll take it. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Common thing which we see and we've had to deal with it in the past is that sometimes a client just wants to hear what they want to hear. So when they come to you and you say, Look, this is gonna be tough, probably can't get you the whole 500k straight away, might have to give you 100 grand. And as you start to hit certain milestones, we can go back to that lender, get a little bit more. But then, you know, we'll probably need lodge financials to show profitability to go to another lender. They don't want to hear any of that. They just want their 500 grand. So they ignore you and then they go to somewhere else and then they get put in one of these really bad loans. So, yeah, sometimes, unfortunately, these founders they probably don't, you know, they don't they don't want to hear some not the truth, but like sometimes it's it's tough getting the getting the message across as well.
SPEAKER_00If every founder in Australia could hear one thing from you today, not about finance, just what it is they're building, what advice would you give them?
SPEAKER_02Um the best advice is just it's gonna be tough no matter what you do, it's hard. So like I said earlier on, you probably just want to be good at it, what you're doing. That's probably the best kind of advice I could give anyone. Yeah, no matter what you're gonna do, it's gonna be tough, right? So it doesn't matter if you're an accountant, it's tough. Doesn't matter if you're an engineer, it's tough. Doesn't matter if you start up a consumer brand or you know, you've got an e-commerce, everything's tough, right? If it's easy, everyone would do it. Sometimes you can be lucky and you can kind of get in, you can be early, you can just be timing can be right, but you just want to be good at it because when it gets tough, you want to be able to know that you can stick through it and you can actually um that you have the capability to get through it as well. And I think sometimes, like, you know, probably people don't want to hear this, but sometimes you can be a really good 2IC as well. Like you might not have to be this big founder, CEO, I'm the head, I'm the boss man, the boss girl, whatever it is. Like sometimes you can be a really good, really good 2IC, sometimes like having like being a really good backup. So say you might not have ideas, you might be creative, but you might have um a lot of skills in other areas. So like me, you know, even going into brands and you know, uh early on and trying to, you know, be a part of it from from an early stage, whether you take equity or being a part of the journey can sometimes be just as rewarding, whether it's financially or just even from a kind of um you know goal perspective as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, very good advice. Cause yeah, there's this trend now, I feel like on online where everyone's like quitting their nine to five and they're starting their own business without like some of them don't have a clue, but some do. And I think it's that messaging as well. And I agree, like sometimes it's okay to be that second in charge.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And and and running your business sounds sexy, but typically you'd be working a lot more hours than what you would in a normal job. Like, I can't, I couldn't tell you the last day I just did work at nine and left at five. Like, I don't, I don't like, and what I mean by that is like, yeah, sometimes I'll start at 7 a.m. on a Friday and leave at 2. But like I don't I I sometimes that nice routine, you can get in at nine, you can leave at five. Like, yeah, I know some jobs are more high pressure solicitors and you know, some some of the guys in kind of corporate finance and things like that, investment banking and I'm sure in engineering and stuff too. But you know, inherently that's what you can do, right? So sometimes that's that's a that's a beautiful thing, right? To be able to have just structure. And I'm sure in now too, you can negotiate, you know, it might be a day or two from home. So sometimes it's it's um, you know, the founder life isn't that all that all the people think think it's it's wrapped up to be. A lot of stress too. Like current market, some of my founders that were, you know, two, three years ago, you know, excited and you know, everything, you know, they had the world at their feet, a lot of tailwinds, like now tables are turned and now they're under a lot of stress and you know, downsizing and reducing stuff, and some of my builders can't take on any fixed price contracts anymore. They can only do cost plus contracts, and so they're losing work, and then you know, we can't the clients can't get funded because it's not fixed. So there's there's a there's so much happening there out there now that yeah, I think sometimes it can be better just having like a good job on a on a good wage, like and you can have like a side gig or something, like you know. I I wouldn't I yeah, I'd be I'd I'd just really think about what you're doing and do you really want to do it? And are you good at it? Like I always say.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I agree with all the the key points because it I think you also have to have this patience as well, because growing something and you're not gonna be that like you know, you might be really good at it, but you also it takes time to master something as well. Yeah, and I think having that patience to let it grow as well, and you know, even when you don't see results, you know, continuing to do it, coming back to what you said, it's really important to yeah.
SPEAKER_02Do you want to do an apprenticeship, right? Like you, you know, like if you're a trade, you gotta go do three, four years of learning how to become a plumber, right? Like you kind of got to do that in business, like you know, whether it's understanding financial acumen and balance sheets and profit and loss and what makes you know, what what cash flows and how you model that out or you know, marketing and creative stuff. Like I think you want to, you want to try and you wanna try and broaden, like you want to increase your luck surface area, right? So you want to broaden your your your skill set. So, you know, trying different if you're depending on your age, but if you're young, young, like you know, just out of uni or something like that. I think you want to try different industries, give this one a crack for a couple years, give that one, like you got the time to do it. You want to try and like, yeah, you want you want to increase your luck surface area.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I'm gonna end on this. What's your next step? Like personally, where do you see yourself going and like professionally as well? Where do you like what's your legacy that you want to leave behind as well?
SPEAKER_02Um, mine's probably changed last year since I had kids, like kind of don't really have this big, like I actually talked about it with my coach kind of thing. Like, I don't have this big, I want to change the world problems. Like, I just it's not not in me to like want to do that, but I just really want to provide a life for say my kids. Like, I just want to give, like, I think it's Bruce Lee saying it's like I don't want to give them what I never had, but I want to teach what I never learned. I just want to make sure I can do that in the best possible way. So, you know, professionally that's kind of growing Nexus and um just doubling down on that, just focusing on that. You know, I got distracted the last few years with probably developments and all sorts of things and trying to invest in like some of my clients' brands. And I'm just now I'm just just want to do Nexus, nothing else, focus on the family. Kind of pretty simple to be honest with you, which is you know, a little bit unlike me to be simple, but yeah, that's that's pretty much it.
SPEAKER_00Going back to the simple life. Uh yeah, yeah. I like I don't know if you've had the fisherman's um theory.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. That resonates with me so much, yeah. Same as the you know, the book The Alchemists, you know, similar kind of yeah, like that similar story. Like at the end of the day, sometimes you just gotta think, all right, what's everything's all right here? Do I really need to rock the boat? Like, um, like I did a post the other day on like, you know, this kind of fertility rates and things. I know there's a lot of few, there's a there's a there's a few parts of that story, but you know, like every time you talk with, like I talk with a lot of people, and you know how many times they bring up like, oh, childcare costs and the cost, like it's like the kids are seen as an expense now, right? Like, man, that's like they are the purpose. Like this, this is what like you know, we're really an ape which came down from the trees, right? So, like, well depends on what you believe in, but you know, yeah, we we like you know, that is the purpose. We've evolved to just have kids. That's it, like it we've kind of lost that that purpose. And I think like you know, to see like when you hear these conversations, like I'll roll eyes sometimes, like I can't believe people keep bringing that up. Like they're seen as an expense, like, yeah, I could only have one because it's like too expensive to have another one. I'm just like shit, like it's just like it's we're we're like what are people's priorities? Like, I don't know, I find it strange.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, things have certainly changed as well. And I I well, I don't have kids, but I've heard a lot around like you know, kids are expensive and things like that. But I also think like giving bringing another perspective into it is like you want to also be able to provide for your kids as well and give them the best life as you can, so yeah, definitely, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I think like we've probably never been like richer and wealthier in a way, like you know, everyone's still going out to nice dinners and getting clothes. Like if you go back, you know, maybe to our parents' eras, like, you know, they take out once a week, you know what I mean? Like it's we you know, we we do live in a very affluent era. I just think we're comparing ourselves to people we should, you know. You can't compare yourself to like these kids that come from billionaire parents and these wealthy guy people from America, and it's just like you compare yourself to people that you you need to compare yourself to your kind of inner circle, right? Like and or to you know not even that, you should just compare yourself to yourself. Like, are you better than you were yesterday? Are you better than like that that that that's that's where your comparison should be. That's what I try and do. I I never kind of look at that stuff anymore and say, oh man, I want to be like that. I don't even wouldn't want to be like that either. Like it's I kind of like being who I am and where I come from. It's kind of it's good to have that kind of I suppose memories and knowledge, like and you know that you've built all that and you haven't had stuff handed to you as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, 100%. I think like the the founders or the people, not just founders, the people I meet that have like come from like you know, uh that they've really had to earn they uh earn their way up. I feel like they're really resilient people and very unique in their ways because they I feel like and you have a sense of a different sense of appreciation to what's what you're doing now, what you've earned, and like the way that you view things. And I think it's very different to someone who's had it all.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So yeah, I think you know, when you when you haven't got any like there's no fallback position, I think your your perspective on life's very different. And you know, hats off to them and like I want to provide this for my kids, I want them to have a fallback position, right? I love for my kids to be able to pursue whatever they really want to do and then not have to worry that if they fail, there's nothing for them. So like you know, I want to provide what I'm just about to talk about. But I think when you don't have that, you you do you do see things very differently. Like, you know, when I do see some of these people that have these kind of just fallback positions with, you know, parents with you know a lot of wealth and stuff like that. Like it's they just yeah, they just seem to not have as much kind of I don't know what the word is, not seriousness, not drive, but they're just a little bit more I probably take them less serious.
SPEAKER_00What a way to end. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time. Good chat. I love the thumbs, nice yeah. The thumbs out. Yeah, good vibes. Really learned a lot from this session as well. And lots of perspectives. So thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02Great, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we'll keep your details in the show notes so and so people can connect with you and yeah, reach out to Steven. Check out Nexus.
SPEAKER_02NexusAdvisory.co.
SPEAKER_00There we go. Um, yeah, till the next episode. Thank you very much.