JIM MCKENZIE | Ice Guardians Ep 36

Kelly Chase and Brett Hull are talking to former teammate, and current NHL Scout for the Vegas Golden Knights, Jim McKenzie. Hully and Mack get started talking about the Golden Knights recent sweep of the Colorado Avalanche in the Western Conference finals and the guys discuss what it takes to build a good NHL team that can compete in the playoffs every year. Mack tells the guys about coming up through juniors and what his mentality was when he was playing hockey. Chaser tells Mack about why he always played so angry when he played against Moose Jaw and Mack talks about his introduction to the Western Hockey League. Mack tells Hully why he hated fighting Chaser and about his first fight in the NHL.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Welcome to Ice Guardians. Here we are, back for another edition. And we have a special guest today. I'm with my great friend Brad Hull. And we're in the Window World Studios, of course, brought to you by Seitman Cancer Center. And Jimmy McKenzie will be joining us right now to talk a little puck and his team, of course, blazing through the playoffs with the uh Las Vegas Knights. And Jimmy, thank you for coming on and making time for us, buddy boy.

SPEAKER_05 1:12

Are you kidding? Love to. Love to.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

Pretty exciting last night. No one would have no one would have thought it was going to be a sweep, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:21

No, not in a million years. No, you never, not a chance. Not against that team, not against any team, really, but certainly not against that team. It's a heck of a team that had a great year. So and these you know, the fourth win's always the hardest. So good on good on those guys. And it's always funny as a scout, once the deadline's over, there's nothing we can do but cheer, right? We can go watch games and get ready for next year, maybe watch players for our team or something like that, but there's nothing you can do. You can't add another player, you can't help out if there's an injury. There's nothing. So uh you just get to be a fan. And uh yeah, and there's always a great game.

SPEAKER_04 1:54

Don't you think there's always uh as you're watching, it's like all of a sudden it's like that kid is sneaky good. I'm gonna keep my eye on him. Oh, yeah. I'd like him on my team.

SPEAKER_05 2:06

The playoffs reveal who the real players are. Like, you know, you see the guys that it can be a top line guy or it can be a fourth line guy, who really steps up their game in areas like the really hard areas where it makes a difference and you win a you win a period, you win a game, you win a series. Um, you know, so that's it's a lot of fun to watch when it's your team and they're having success. And uh, but yeah, you're keeping an eye on the other teams and hoping one of those guys comes free that's playing really well.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Yeah, those are clutch guys. Yes. You you find yourself um like they they must lit, like they do a good job of listening to their scouts, obviously, because you guys have been at the top of the league since you come into the league. So they have to be doing something to listen to their scouts and say, you guys are an important piece of it. And and I know Kelly McCrimin, and I think he's one of the most quality guys that that I've been around from an integrity standpoint, so much like his brother Brad, who I envied and and looked up to as a player and and and played with. So they must listen to you guys when you guys speak.

SPEAKER_05 3:18

They do. They're they're they're awesome. Like you can say anything. We're in all the meetings, you can bring up any player, you can tell them why. Um it's a little bit like a locker room, because if you fuck up, if you say something dumb or you get something wrong, fuck everybody jumps on you and just gives it to you. Like it really is, it's it's a lot of fun. But at the same time, you can bring up names that you know what, this is the area we need to get better. It's not here, it's here, you know, or we think this guy might be available, you know. Um let's take a swing. You know, you don't know if you don't know. If you don't, if you don't try to get, you know, Mark Stone or Mitch Martin or Jack Eichel, you'll never get him. So um, yeah, Crame is so smart, he's so hardworking. Um he and I played with Beast in Hartford, I played with him again in uh in Phoenix and different personality a little bit, but very similar, where he's just, you know, he was a great teammate, smart guy. Um used to, you know, anytime he told me something or told you listening to someone else, he always finished, it was really important. He always finished it by saying, Hey, what the fuck do I know? I'm just a farmer from Pliny, Saskatchewan. Anytime he said that, I'm like, oh man, can you tell me it one more time? Because I think this is really important. And I didn't get it the first time. You know, Crimson his brother's the same way. They're just really smart, hardworking guys and relentless. Like they just they want to win, and uh, here's how we're gonna do it. So we're gonna have to get up every day and work at it.

SPEAKER_04 4:39

Yeah, it's it's incredible to watch them. You know, you talk about Colorado on the skill level and the speed, and uh, you know, like we said, they're they're a hell of a hockey team. But Vegas is built for the playoffs. They they play playoff hockey, and it's actually fun to watch.

SPEAKER_05 5:00

Yeah, what's great about watching the guys play is the same guys that are our best players like Eichel and Stone and Marner, they kill penalties for us. They play in the last minute when we're up a goal and the other team's got the goalie pull. Like, that's how you can trust those guys in their own end with the puck or without the puck or whatever they're doing. And, you know, it's no different than you, Holly. Like, fuck, great goal score, but you killed penalties. Like when you have a fucking guy that can score goals like you or Eichel or Stone and they're killing penalties too, it's just your advantage against the other team is so great. It's it's it really is. Like it makes a big difference. It makes a big difference to the rest of the team when you see your best players buy in defensively. You know, it's not like they're cheating towards the offensive side, they're not trying to get their cookies and that's all they want. Yeah, you know, it it's it's a big deal.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

I learned that I've never understood that anyway. I I I well, we brought we put he's on the team for this situation where there's 40 seconds left, and he's on this, he's on the team for this situation. If I got Crosby on my team, he's the situation.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Like, why wouldn't you put your best player with 40 seconds left on the ice unless he's exhausted? Just put him out there. You know, we don't need to have a third line or fourth line guy that we go, oh, we we count on him. That's why we got him. Like you need those guys to score you a goal in the in the in a game where you know you you need your fourth line to outplay their fourth line, third line downplay their third line. But you certainly don't 40 seconds left go, oh shit, you know, I just gotta I gotta make sure this guy's in in in working order because that's why we got him on the team. That's my opinion. I I I don't I don't I don't see it when you talk about it and some of those guys you got, what goes into getting a guy like Marner or Eichel?

SPEAKER_05 6:50

Well, it's you gotta that's more that's more about what Kelly McCrimin did, right? It's when when you realize the player's available, you just start to you talk to the team, you go to work on it, and you see if you hopefully have the assets that the other team wants. You know, if you can find the make the trade, make it matter. Um you know, it it it's nothing, it's nothing's easy about it, but you gotta you gotta get in there. You gotta you gotta make the call and and stay at them and and uh hopefully, like I said, you got the assets that they want to make the trade. If the team's given up the player, the team's given up the player. Now they're just looking for the best deal, right? It's not like they you can't go back and put the toothpaste back in the tube when you call a player and say, by the way, you know, would you wave your no move?

SPEAKER_04 7:34

You know. We were talking earlier, and you know, there's always dumb people out there that will, you know, pick the wrong guy during the draft or or give up on a player before his time has really come. And and uh if you can find those dummies that'll do that, you can uh you can keep some of the good assets and get the asset in return, too.

SPEAKER_05 7:59

Yeah, well, and great players are great players. You know, it it's it's just it's what it is. They they're we all like to think that there's 32 teams and they all have great players on them. They don't. They don't. The great players are elite. They're just you know what I mean, they just are. And if you're lucky to have one or get one, you want to keep them and and you win that, you want to surround him with whatever he needs. How do we make you better? You know, what's the situation that works best? What other players compliment you, you know, that kind of thing. So um, yeah, it's it's been Vegas McGregor. We have great ownership, and he lets us do what we do.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

You find yourself talking to uh guys that are emotional, like for instance, like I'd call Keenan every day if I was a GM. When he was a GM, I'd call him every day because he was so damn emotional, it was the up and down with him that he would make a deal, probably, you know. But uh but I mean, do you guys find that there's guys in your league that are more emotional than others, and you kind of say, listen, this guy, you know, if we keep on him, you never know that day could come.

SPEAKER_05 9:02

There might be. I think the bigger thing is what you watch is a combination, like it it and everyone sees it. You read the articles. Once you know a player is available, or once you know there's some rift with the player of the organization, he's gonna get moved. So if he's a player you like, then you just gotta stay in touch with that that GM until you know a deal's done and maybe you're the the one. If it's a team that's rebuilding, if it's uh, you know, it's a team that has made some trades in the past, they probably shouldn't have. You know what I mean? Well, they're gonna do it again. It's the same guy running them. So I think it's more maybe along those lines. Um, if you see a player that's his contract's up and he's made it clear he's not re-signing. I mean, those are the easiest ones, right? And it's it's nothing personal, it's just I'm not re signing here. I want more than you're gonna pay me, or I want to go somewhere else. Um, those are the easiest ones. Anybody can do that. You just look at the the unrestricted free agents that are coming before the deadline.

SPEAKER_04 9:52

Or his wife tells him that I don't want to live in the city anymore. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:56

Any any and all those things. Yeah, you try to pick up information everywhere and anywhere you can, but you just you know, if you watch player enough times, you know if he's a good player or not, right? And if he makes you better, then okay, how do we get this guy? Like, can we make it work?

SPEAKER_04 10:10

I can't tell you how many times that we were uh playing teams and uh you know the rumor would be around, right? And they'd they'd come up to me and they'd be like, Hey, talk to your guys, get me the hell out of here, right? And yeah, you know, I'd love to come to St. Louis or whatever, and and that's another, you know, you find out information that way as well.

SPEAKER_05 10:32

Yeah, absolutely. That's that's sometimes probably the best source. And I don't have that, I don't talk to our players or any players, but I'm sure that's probably another source if a player comes to, like you said, to the GM said, by the way, that guy's not happy where he's at. Like you might not think it, but this guy wants out, you know, any of those avenues, any of that information he gets always valuable.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

How's Vegas been able to just pounce on such great players? Because they've gotten so many through that through that that uh avenue.

SPEAKER_05 11:02

I like I said, I think once you know, it's not hard to figure out for the most part which guys are available. Like you'll see, you know, anytime it's like a team's not going to re sign the guy, they don't want to pay him this, or the guy wants out, or whatever it is. Once everybody knows, I mean it's it's there.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

And uh I feel like not everybody knows about there's certain guys where you hear a rumor, it's like there's no way. And then I don't feel like I guess the GMs would run it up the ladder right away, but I just feel like there's so much bullshit that goes out there. If you I mean, if you if you if you just turn on the radio in Toronto, there's somebody's leaving every day. So it's like the chatter there's a joke. And so how do you how do you download what's good and what isn't good information?

SPEAKER_05 11:53

Well, you just flush it out, right? Go right to the source. I think that's what you the fastest thing and easiest thing to do is to you go to the team and say, is there any is this going on? And a lot of times you're right, guys will say, No, there's nothing here. And then all you say, well, you know what? If there ever is, just know we're interested, you know, and let us know.

SPEAKER_04 12:11

Yeah, it's always if you've got the assets, like you said, you know, some teams are like, you know what, uh, we're gonna rebuild, so I want some draft picks. And if you've stockpiled some of those, yeah, as opposed to having to give up an asset that you already have that's in your lineup, uh, you know, you got both avenues, and that's you know, a good GM stockpile, both of them.

SPEAKER_05 12:35

Well, and now with the salary cap, like that's the gymnastics that I just think are incredible that they do, you know, at the level well above me, is how they figure out the salary cap part of it, of getting the money in and the money out, and you know, which guys you can plug and play. Okay, we can go get this guy, we can go get this guy, but we got to give up this amount of money. Which guy are you trying to give up? I'm like, Oh, I don't want to give up. I love all my guys. I don't fucking trade anybody. You know, I want to give away all the draft picks. Fuck the amateur scouts, right? Um, you know, uh, or as we joke sometimes, we'll let you draft the guy, but we're gonna trade him before he ever gets to the NHL. But um, you know, I I don't know that the gymnastics they do with the uh salary cap is incredible.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

The capologist, you know, every dude's got a nerd somewhere. It's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_05 13:17

And you need them. You really need them. They can tell you right down to the penny. You know, this is the this guy'll fit, this guy won't. You know, this is how it's gonna look, you know. Um, you know, so it's it's crazy. I don't know how they do it.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Well, listen, we're gonna go take a break and we're gonna come back and talk about a young Jim McKenzie. Back in a minute from the Ice Guardian Studios and Window World. Seitman, Hull, Chase, McKenzie. Back in a minute. Now it's time for your get-check moment of the game. And today we're talking about prostate cancer. Did you know that besides skin cancer, prostate cancer is the most common cancer among American men, but it's very treatable, especially with early detection. Umbellas, please speak to your primary physician about knowing when to get your PSA test done. A simple blood test could save your life. Typically, it's recommended you get the first test done around the age of 50. But if your family has a history of other factors, you may opt to get it done as early as your forties. It's a simple blood test, and that's it. And if you're in Missouri or the Illinois area, you can go to get screennow.com or you type in your zip code and find a screening location near you. Or you visit Siteman.washu.edu.

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SPEAKER_05 17:14

Well, I grew up in a small town in Saskatchewan, Carlisle. And uh when I was about 14, moved to Moose Jaw to play midget hockey, did a couple years of that, and then uh played for the Warriors for a couple years. Uh my last year was in Victoria when they were the Cougars, got drafted by the Hartford Whalers, and uh yeah, just I don't know, just it kept going from there. Played in the American League as a 19 or 20-year-old uh for a year, and the next year we were in Springfield, played about a half year there, got called up uh by the Whalers, and uh somehow fooled them for about 15 years.

SPEAKER_04 17:48

Uh that tell you what we've we've talked about this before, and uh you know it it's kind of uh easier, I would say, for a guy who's scoring goals to to have a kind of a longer career, but you guys that were tough and had to go through those battles night in and night out, you play 15 years in AHL, and that is that is a hell of a long career for you guys because it is, you know, you're you're always to me the things that I loved about you guys was that it you were you were one bad fight from being gone.

SPEAKER_05 18:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

And to be able to do it for that long and to be that successful and and be said you guys are always the best teammates, too. So uh that's a hell of a career yet.

SPEAKER_05 18:37

Well, and for me, especially like the first, I don't know, four or five years where I bounced around as fast as I did, it was I I just I love hockey and I love playing hockey. And if you pissed me off, I'd fight you. If you did something to one of my teammates, I'd fight you. But if you left me alone, I didn't fight. Like, I didn't get, I never understood, you know, you're up 3-2 or you're down three-two, and the other team scores an empty netter with a minute left, and they throw us tough guys out at the end, and I'd line up. If the guy said, let's go, I'd fight him, but if he didn't, I didn't say shit to him, because like the fuck am I fighting you for? The game's over. Like, I never got that part. So it took me a long time to figure out different parts of being in that role if it makes sense. And and it just, yeah, I just you know, if you piss me off, all right. If you know I did something to you, okay, let's like whatever. But the rest of the time I'm just trying to play hockey, which I'm probably not fucking good enough for. You know, like I said, fooled him a long time.

SPEAKER_04 19:31

So um Chaser and I talk about this uh all the time with guys, and it's it and the way Chaser explained it to me was it was always nice to have a coach that understood that role and that knew enough to not throw you out there in the last minute when the game is over, you know? And understood that, you know, I you know, like your best example, Chaser, was Joel Gwenville. Yeah, and he said, You guys let me know. Like if you think you need to go out there and do something, you let me know. I'll put you out there. Yeah, but I'm not gonna, you know, just tell you to go out there and and fight, because that's you know, who am I to say that to you? I wasn't a fighter.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Yeah, put you in the right situation. And you know, he he just basically said, like, look at I don't know your role, and I I never did your role. And but if you tell me that you need to be on the ice turn and tell me, or if you tell me that you know that you know you don't this a bad time, tell me. He goes, because I don't know. And he goes, and then you know, and so we learned off each other, and I thought it was great, but I want to take it back to Moose Jaw because we were in Moose Jaw at the same time. You were a little younger than me and you wouldn't remember it, but I do.

SPEAKER_05 20:52

No, I we've talked about this, Chaser. You fucking ran around in that camp. You did everything to make that team, you deserve to make the team. And then the next time I saw you, you're playing for the blades, and you're just picking one guy off at a time on the warrior team, and you're you're playing so fucking angry, and I never understood it. You tell the story now, but you tell me what happened after that because I never understood why you weren't on the team number one, and number two, why you hated you didn't hate every guy, you just hated every guy wearing the jersey.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

Well, I was so pissed off at at the at the at Barry uh uh what's Barry Trotz? Uh not trots, but uh who is the who was the GM there?

SPEAKER_05 21:32

Oh fuck, it was that dummy's name.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Um it doesn't matter. Anyway, uh uh I I just look at I knew what happened. I knew they had kept a kid uh whose dad ran the sporting goods store. Uh uh what the hell is the kid's last name? Uh and they owned the sporting goods store and were donating equipment. They owned the store store in Regina. And uh and I felt like you know it they needed a right winger, they needed, you know, the toughness was you guys were all young and I was I think a year or two older than you guys, and I w I had had a good camp. And you know, at the end of the at the end of the tryout, the last games, I had two goals. I had two goals and an assist in the game, and I had fought in the game, and I felt like, okay, like I'm I'm in, right? And when they called me in the office, and it's funny because they were cutting guys in alphabetical order, and they cut me, and I I I was just so I was just I was I wasn't crying emotion. I was uh I was just pissed off and distraught. I was just like sitting there going, what the hell what does it take to make a team? Like I know I was never drafted, I wasn't put on a list, I just these guys listed me and they were sending me back to Humboldt because the two GMs were friends and they were hosting the Centennial Cup. So they wanted to stack the team in Humboldt. And I remember saying, Well, what the hell do you have to do to make a team in this league? Keener was my roommate, he is he's just over, and he was pissed right off. And I was just like, What do I what do I gotta do? The next guy cut was Chevelday, CHE. So they cut him, and uh he comes out of there and he's just and he was he was really good at camp, and I'm ta and I just turn and I start talking to him for whatever reason. And um I remember saying to him, hey, listen, hang on a second. I I might have an idea. And I said, let me let me make a phone call. And I called uh the Clark farm. Don happened to be in, they were harvesting because Humboldt hadn't started the you know, the tier two started a couple weeks later, or a week and a half later, whatever. And Don picked up the phone and I said to Donnie, I said, Hey, he goes, What's going on? How's it going? And I said, I said, Well, I just got cut. He goes, You got cut? And he goes, No, he got cut because they had no, he was coaching in Humboldt. And he says, Oh, I know what happened. So he knew the head coach in Humboldt had called and kind of had me, you know, pushed back. So he goes, Hang on a second, let me let my dad's coming across the yard. So he tells Les, Clark, Les goes, take your stuff and go to Saskatoon. Just get your stuff and go to Saskatoon right now. And he hadn't talked to anybody yet, right? So I'm like, well, Les, and he goes, go to Saskatoon. I said, Okay. So I turn around and I say, I got a goalie with me, too. He goes, tell him, tell the goalie to go with you. He didn't even know Chevy's freaking name. And we end up in Saskatoon. I didn't have enough money for the bus, so I borrowed from Chev. And we went to Saskatoon, and we played the next night against Brandon, and we won the game 7-4. Chevy never let he played the second half. He never let in a goal. I scored in the game and got in a fight. The next game we had was against the Prince Albert Raiders. And you know how tough they were. They had Jansen and Baumgartner and Odoline?

SPEAKER_04 25:52

Didn't they have Odoline too?

SPEAKER_02 25:54

No, we did. In in Moose Jaw, Odoline, we had Odie's Odie was a rookie, though. He didn't even really know he, you know, he didn't know what the hell he was doing yet. But um went to uh PA and uh went, I was getting on the bus, and Wendell hadn't gone to camp yet in uh Toronto. And he was leaving like in the next day or in two days, and he said, if you want to play on this team, get a hold of Manson or Baumgartner if they're playing, fight with them and be careful because they're tough. And uh I ended up fighting with Baumgartner, and when I fought with Baumgartner um after the game, the coach was Marcel Come was standing by the front of the bus, and he said, Hey, listen, uh when you get to the hotel today, you pack up your stuff tomorrow morning, we're gonna move you in with uh the McClellans. You got a billet family for you. You're gonna start here in Saskatoon. And so that's how I ended up playing and not playing for you guys. But I wanted to play with you.

SPEAKER_05 27:05

Oh, you had a great camp. Like I said, I don't know nothing about hockey. I watched and I'm like, I don't understand this. And like I said, when you came back and played in Moose Jaw against them, oh my gosh, you just wore guys out.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Well, you know, uh Danny Hickey.

SPEAKER_05 27:20

Yep, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:22

That hickey, hickey, uh sporting business. Yes, yeah, that's who they kept instead of me.

SPEAKER_05 27:30

It's uh very very trap trap, very trap, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:35

The the game hasn't changed at all. They're still doing that to kids and people at level.

SPEAKER_05 27:42

Cutting deals.

SPEAKER_04 27:43

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Well, I didn't have a dad to go in there and fight for me, and I certainly didn't have any hockey people to fight for me, but I don't know what Les Clark did. But whatever he did, he just got off the phone. And when I got to Saskatoon, the funny thing is, is they had everything arranged, except they didn't know who the goalie was. Turned out to play 12 years in the NHL.

SPEAKER_05 28:08

Yeah, he was okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

Yeah. So Chevy was good.

SPEAKER_05 28:12

Couldn't stop me, but he was good at you got a lot of goalies, he could probably say that about, though, couldn't you?

SPEAKER_02 28:18

Well, there are certain goalies Holly just owned. Like that poor bastard.

SPEAKER_04 28:23

I don't know what the hell I'll tell you what, the only guy that I could not score on was Bob Ascenza. Really? I couldn't score on him to save my life. I'd play in Winnipeg and I'd get 12, 13, 14 shots, and nothing. Just absolutely nothing. Ever.

SPEAKER_05 28:42

It's too funny.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

I got my first goal in my career against him in Winnipeg. And Ricky Mahar tells me, I said, and Ricky Mahar threw it. Uh I one-timed it on my forehand. And uh I'm I'm up on stage one day bragging about it and saying thanks to Ricky Mahar for setting me up my first goal, and he leans over when I sit down and says, Hey, just so you know, that fucking pass wasn't for you. Oh God, I love it. Hey, thanks, buddy.

SPEAKER_05 29:19

Thanks, thanks, asshole.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

You were in the uh when you're in the Western League, when that was a tough league. When did you kind of look around and go, uh oh, or was there a moment where you ever went in in that league, went, these this is this is this is a league that a man the i I think the moment came earlier in that because before I ended up in Moose Jaw, I went to a Saskatoon Blades camp.

SPEAKER_05 29:44

It was a north battle for young guys, like 14, 15, 16-year-old kids. And uh I just remember like the when he first got on the ice, the first game, it was like I just meant, like I said, I played in Carlisle. I was playing, you know, local hockey or whatever. Like, holy crap, are these guys good? And then a whistle blew part way through the period, but it wasn't the referee or linesman, it was I think it was Lubinicki. It was somebody in it was one of the management guys in the crowd, and he called us over, all the players on both teams, and he said, We know you can play hockey.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

I was at the ACT Arena.

SPEAKER_05 30:18

Yeah, right? He says, We we know you can play hockey. How bad do you want to play hockey? And then they dropped the puck, and it was a war. It was, I've never seen anything like it. It was like guys running and fighting and hitting, and it was unbelievable, right? And the only funnier than this was so they kept us at the arena. We had we all had a mattress. He brought a uh sleeping bag, they fed you there, it was it was great, it was a great setup. And I'm, you know, as a 14-year-old, I'm well over, I'm over six feet when I'm skinny or whatever. But the guy beside me is just a little guy, and he wears glasses, right? And he's not a big fucking guy. And he's the nicest kid ever, he's my age, and I'm talking with him, whatever. And we get through the first day, and I'm listening to other guys talk about their games, and they keep talking about it. Like, get your fucking head up for this Kevin Kaminsky. He's a this guy's this guy is nuts, he's a psycho, he's gonna feel he can play, but he's gonna take your head off. He's gonna come, well, all these things. Like, I'm like, holy crap. So I'm hanging out with this little guy with the glasses, and uh I said, hey, you know, like I don't know nothing from nothing, but I said, uh, I keep hearing these guys say, like, watch out for this Kaminsky guy. So just, you know, hey, just you know, watch out for him. And he's like, all right, whatever. He doesn't say anything, goes to goes to brush his teeth, and I look down, I see his bag's got a tag on it. Kevin Kaminsky. That's fucking killer, right? And I'm like, I'm looking at the thing like 10 times and I'm replaying the stories in my mind. I'm like, really? This is the guy? This is the guy, and then sure enough, you know, next day, fucking see him out there on the ice. He's just fucking taking guys to town, right? Absolutely on the ice, but a great player, like he could play too. But uh, so that for me, that was the eye-opener as to what hockey, you know, because you grew up in a small town, you watch men's league, and like the the senior hockey, they played hard. Those guys played like they were in the NHL, they thought they were, even though they go to work at the hardware store or they're cops or whatever. They played hard. They fought, they, you know, and I grew up near the White Bear Indian Reserve. Those are some of the toughest guys ever, right? So my so I'd seen hockey when they did that kind of stuff, but to see it as a player when when I was, you know, you see the other guys on the ice, like my age, taking their helmets and their cages off and all right, come on, let's go, because they let you do that back then. Um like, all right, this is this is gonna be a little bit different. I better figure this stuff out, you know. And uh you start, and back then, guys did. They worked on it in midget hockey, you practiced how to grab and fight and how you would do it. And, you know, when you finally got into one, you you hoped you did well. So it wasn't even before juniors, well before junior that you figured out this is gonna have to be part of the game because at some point someone's gonna piss you off, or you're gonna piss them off, right? So you better know how to what you're doing a little bit and protect yourself. And and the other thing, it's always good knowledge to know is who's who are the bad guys, like who are the guys that are really good at it so you don't wander into the wrong fight. Um, we played in uh uh Spokane one night, and uh they had the missing link, Link Gates. Oh god. And uh so he comes out, he takes a bad penalty, Butch Goring's the coach, and the old arena uh you know, the players are here, the coach is up above him on a bench, and then there's like a another area, and I look over and this guy's sitting up there. Link Gates is sitting up above the coach where his feet are dangling down. Travis Green's playing for him. I'm like, what's going on? He goes, uh, coaches mad, he took a bad penalty, so he benched him. So that's what he I'm like, this is crazy. So the period ends, he's skating off the ice, he punches one of our guys, and he goes off the ice. I'm like, all right, well, gotta have to fight this guy next shift, right? Come out. He doesn't come out. And I said to Travis, so where'd he go? He goes, Ah, him and the coach got into it and off the ice. He's probably at the bar. I'm thinking to myself, well, you he's not really 21 years old. But like, it's so crazy stuff like that that uh, you know, every time you see it or every time you it happens, you're like, oh, this is not quite normal, probably, but it's normal to us.

SPEAKER_04 33:51

Yeah, I had the one of similar experiences before I ever uh I don't even know if I was 16 or 15, and I went to a New Westminster Portland Winterhawks game, and I watched Boris Fistrick, and and they had a brawl like I have never seen before. And I am like, I can't play in this league if I ever thought I could. I'm like, these guys are crazy. Holy God. I was like, I've never seen anything like it.

SPEAKER_05 34:22

Yeah. Moose jock is it was about 40 minutes or 45 from Regina. Um, as midget players who go to all the uh Warrior home games, right? And the one night they had a bench clearing brawl, and they had uh Lyndon Byers, Stu Grimson, Al Tour, all those guys on the and Mike Keene was probably the toughest guy, and he was only 16 or 17 at the time on Moose Jaw, but they had a bench clearing brawl, and we're sitting there with my teammates going, Holy crap, like we're trying to get to that level, but are we really trying to get to that level? Like, this is what we're gonna be doing? Like, these guys are nuts. You got Stu at 6'6, he's got somebody picked up, he's just tagging them, painting them to the boards and beating the tar out of them. Uh it's nuts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Why don't we just take a quick break and we'll come back? I want to hear about your first one. All right. We'll be back in the Window World Studios, brought to you by Seitman Cancer Center, Red Hall, Jimmy McKenzie, myself, Kelly Chase, and the Ice Guardians production. Back in a minute.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

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SPEAKER_02 35:56

Oh, you're a legend on the ice, but you're no legend in the repair shop.

SPEAKER_04 36:01

You're right, Chaser. I couldn't fix a car if it came with a playbook.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

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SPEAKER_04 36:13

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SPEAKER_02 36:20

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SPEAKER_04 36:30

Wow. Nice hustle. The only time I get to see that much drive is when I feed my dog. Nugget loves every flavor of Diamond Naturals adult formula. Every time I fill her bowl, it's like a breakaway. I think she loves Diamond Naturals almost as much as she loves the blues. They both come from Missouri. Maybe it's local pride. All I do know is to step away from the bull, come feeding time, because she'll rough you up if you get in the way. Welcome back, Jimmy McKenzie, Kelly Chase, Red Hall Ice Guardians from the Window World Studio, brought to you by Seitman Cancer Center. Mac, there's been uh, I guess over that course of time, you've uh seen a few uh guys who maybe picked the wrong door.

SPEAKER_05 37:21

Yeah. Yeah. More on more than one occasion. And you always you never want to be that guy, right? Like I told you, I I hated fighting Chaser. Uh not like for no other reason than I'm bigger. I always in my mind, well, if I'm fighting a fucking Twister, okay, and he takes my head off, it's supposed to happen, right? Because Twister's Twister. If it's Stu Grimson, if it's fucking Dave Brown or or Proby, because they're all as big as me or bigger. Chaser's not as big, but he's fucking dangerous and he's a dangerous fighter. I hated fighting him, I hated fighting Odge, I hated fighting fucking Van and Bush. I just I did not like it at all. I'd rather fight, it made no sense. I'd rather fucking fight Twister, and and if I get fucking hit, I get hit. That's just how it is, you know, that kind of thing. But I always try to warn my teammates. And I was lucky enough coming up in junior, I had Mike Keene as a teammate, one of the best fucking guys, best teammates, awesome guy. So we go into Vancouver one night, I'm playing with Nashville. I guess Scottie Hart knows a great guy, and he's kind of getting around, he's kind of bumping with, and Keener had been up and down with Manitoba. It's like, you know, he could still play, like he was, and he was obviously really tough. But um, I told Hartz, he said, like, you know, that he's left-handed. I said, and he's really, really tough. And he didn't believe me, and I don't know why. And he went out and fought him, and it did not go well for him. He was lucky he's wearing a fucking visor. And back, you know, then they didn't take their helmets off or whatever, but Keener gave him the business with a, you know, like he was starting the lawnmower with that left hand. But I'm like, why would you not listen? Like he told you, I didn't think he was that tough. Like, well, how tough? Like, what's your levels of tough bird dog? Like, my goodness, like, don't do that. Don't pick the wrong guy. Uh, you know, that's the worst thing you can ever do, I think.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Oh, yeah. And and Mac, I I'm gonna just lead into a story, but you were frustrated one night, and I've been there, and Hully will tell you, I've been there where I got so over uh anxious and pissed off that I threw a skate at the coach, which is not advised. And frowned upon Bob Barry. I'll tell I'll tell the story real quickly because it's gonna lead into yours. Is Bob Berry uh was Hully was pissed off he wasn't getting ice time, so that Bob Berry thought, I'll I'll fix him. He can skate in Chase's shifts and in his own. So he plays every second shift, and I just sit on the bench. So we're in Detroit. Two two and a half periods. I mean, I got my laces undone, like I haven't played in three hours, right? And uh finally, with uh about a minute left in the game, he says, Chase uh whoever or whoever get out on the ice and um uh Quinn uh not Quinnville, but uh big Q.

SPEAKER_04 40:15

Stefan Quintel.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

Quintel and uh whoever out on the ice bomb. And I turned around and I looked at him and I said, Really? Crobert, Primo, and and Crowd. So I turned around and I go, Really? I go, Bob, why don't you go out there? Fuck you. I go, yeah, I've seen you play when I was growing up. You were scared shitless. I go, you go out there. I go, you wouldn't go out there, and and he said, get the fuck on the ice. I said, you fucking go out there, and I got up, Detroit. I went into the locker room, walked by him, and I went in and I started undressing. I was so pissed off, and I was almost crying, and I was just like, I was so embarrassed. But I like I was like, come on, because now he's got a chance to put out oats, hull, and so-and-so, and everything's dead, right? Like, but yeah, oh no, he throws out Shannon and like he throws out a guy guys that can fight still. So, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_05 41:18

Guys that aren't gonna guys that aren't gonna say no for sure.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Yeah, puck drops, uh Shanahan. I'm gonna say Shanahan, Primo, Big Q and Probert, and a bunch of shit starts. So now I'm even more hurt and more embarrassed because this has gone on, and I'm like, I'm pissed off because now he's he's embarrassing my teammates, right? And I'm I got one skate on, one skate off, and Bob cut the buzzer rings after these guys are now in the locker room because the buzzer's gone, there's like 10 seconds left. They're in the locker room. I'm half undressed, and Bob comes flying in the room and he goes, You little fu. And he's barely got out of his mouth, and I stood up and fired my skate at him. And uh I hit the door with the skate and ill-advised. Uh but anyway, shit hit the fan, and Shanny tackled me. I went after Bob, got a hold of his coat, and he ran out of his coat. And uh, of course, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna get in shit. And the next day is a trade deadline. Uh and uh and Holly he he said, let's go play golf. And I'm like, golf? Fuck, I'm getting traded today for sure. Like, there's no way they can keep me out. So uh sure enough, we we go out and play to play golf, and at like hole eight, they they go, you gotta uh call down the blues office. Susie Matthew called and wants you to call, wants you to come down there. So so fine, I I go to the halfway house, I call. Uh she says, Yeah, I need you down here. I said, Suze, did I get traded? She said, Well, you just gotta come down here. I said, Susie, just tell me, did I get traded? She goes, Yes. I said, Where did I get traded to? She goes, Montreal. I'm like, shit. Like, so I come out, I tell Holly, I got traded in Montreal. He goes, You're not going nowhere. Skin of cargo. I'm like, Holly, I got traded in Montreal. He goes, You're not going to Montreal. Come on. So finally, I say, Listen, I'll come back and get you. Finish your round. We were playing with our buddy Taz, I think, and I go, jump in with Taz. I'm gonna finish your round. I'll pick you up after I after I talk to Mr. Kran. So I go down and I I walk in the offices. Mr. I go in. Mr. Kran looks up. He goes, Ah, you. He goes, You're lucky because I talked to your friend just now, and he tell me if I trade you that he has to go with you, and we can't have that.

SPEAKER_05 44:12

So that is awesome.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

He goes, You're lucky because Serge Savar is my buddy, and he tell me that he would rescind the trade. And you're fucking lucky because you can't throw skates at coaches. Not in this league. No, no. So I I'm apologizing, and he tells me that I gotta go downstairs. Apologize to Bob, and Bob wants no part of me. Like he doesn't give a shit if I'm apologizing or not. It's too fresh. Yeah. And uh so I gotta apologize to him, and I go back to uh Algonquin golf course. Pull in front, park the car. Holly drives over with the car. I told you you weren't going to move.

SPEAKER_05 45:11

Who runs Barter Town?

SPEAKER_02 45:13

Well, I mean, it was one of those ones where he goes, I told them you've already traded one of my buddies, Adam Oates, and he goes, and if you trade him, I'm going with them. So they figured they weren't gonna have that. So anyway, I didn't end up getting traded, but uh it was one of those ones where you know I wasn't afraid to fight it. I mean, it wasn't a it was that's not what that was about. No, that was understanding what was going on, and I knew what was going on, and I knew like I knew how like how you didn't need to embarrass me. Now his excuse was he was trying to get me a game played because if you didn't get on the ice, you didn't get the the uh bullshit excuse.

SPEAKER_05 46:01

Uh yeah, he he could have given you that shift anytime.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

Yeah, but I said you had two and a half hours to give me that.

SPEAKER_05 46:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

You know, you didn't need to do it after after the after the game was over, and I'm gonna get in a fight. And and of course, you know uh what Murray was coaching what's the the younger old fan and so he he would he had no problem absolutely not inspiring somebody out there to just fight. So um I I I felt like I got away with not only throwing the skate at the coach, but also a little bit of bullshit with the trade. And Holly saved me on uh that's a great that is a great one. It's good to have friends in high places.

SPEAKER_05 46:56

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

I'd like you to tell me I'd tell the fans and tell the people listening about your incident when you got called up and didn't feel like the coach was playing you enough. And then with what's time? Yeah, Dave Brown.

SPEAKER_05 47:17

All the Dave Brown. So I came up, I was up and down with Hartford, and they called me up. We played in Calgary, and this is uh like 90, maybe. They'd won the cup in 89, so they had good teams, and I scored my first NHL goal, and we lose like 6'2. They thumped us pretty good, and I didn't fight anybody. And and Rick Lee was the coach, and he came in, and in truth, he ripped everybody. But I just felt like he was yelling at me because I didn't get in a fight. You know what I mean? And in my mind, because I'm such a simpleton, it's like, I fucking scored a goal. Like, yell at these other guys that didn't score a goal, right? Like, that's that really it, okay. So we bust up to Edmonton, we're gonna play them the next night, and um and I had like I had the worst rabbit ears. Anytime a coach or somebody that I thought mattered said something negative, I couldn't get it out of my head. So I went all the way up there, probably hardly slept. The next day we're in warm-up, we're skating around in warm-up, and I still can't get it out of my head. He's fucking yelled at me the whole bit. I'm skating around, there's like maybe 30, 40 seconds left in the warm-up, and I'm just kicking a puck in my skates, and I don't know why. And this big guy's stretching for Edmonton, he's stretching on our side. Uh, he's one of those guys. And as he stands up, I run into him. Not hard, but I bump him because I didn't see him. And there's a little guy that's I always get him confused, Acton or Linsman. I can't remember which one of those yappy little guys was playing for Edmonton. And he looks at me and he looks at the big guy and he goes, Holy crap, Brown, he goes, This fucking kid's trying to show you up in your own building. What are you gonna do? And the big guy looks at him, looks at me, he points at me, goes, You're dead. I'm like, whatever, buddy. Like, fuck. Didn't have time to tell him, but like, scored a goal last night. Coach yelled at me, whatever. I got bigger things going on, right? So in the rest of the warm-up, we skate around like it's slap shot. We're bumping into each other, we're staring at each other. Uh, Kelly Buckberger, Bucky's playing on Edmonton, and I played junior with him. And he comes over, he goes, Mac like, You have a deathless? What are you doing? I said, Buck, you don't have time for this. I said, fuck, I scored last night. You probably saw it on the highlights, but coach yelled at me, and I don't know, getting sent down, probably never play in the NHL again. There's a lot of stuff going on. Like, I didn't give a shit what this guy wants. Like, whatever. I go in the locker room, and back then, they always dress an extra guy or two for warm-up. And then the coach would come in and he'd tell who's playing, who's not. So I go in there, and first of all, it's like a morgue. Nobody will look at me, right? Nobody will look at me because I'm a dead man, and I don't know it. I don't know why. But I'm like, hey, come on, it's better tonight. Come on, fellas. You know, I'm trying to be all positive and what nobody will talk to me. Coach comes in, says, All right, you're in, points at me. I'm like, oh yeah, you know, and okay. The guys that weren't playing were fucking relieved, I'm sure, because they didn't have to go back out there. But jump on the ice, first or second shift, the big guy comes over, gives me a cross check. He's all right, come on, you think you're tough, whatever. We have a what turns out to be a great fight. We have this fight, go to the box. Well, it was Brownie, like trying to kill me, whatever, lefty. But go to the box. Now I come into the bench after the five, and all the guys, that was the other thing. Nobody had seen it was my first NHL fight, and with the exception of Daryl Ray, who's our backup goalie, nobody on that team had ever seen me fight before. They'd heard I was supposed to be tough, but nobody had seen it. Now I'm coming to the bench and they're all like, holy shit, kid, that was great. And they're all fired up. I'm like, the fuck is wrong with these guys? Like, you for one minute you won't talk to me, and now I'm your buddy. So I end up down by Razor and I'm pouting. And he's like, What's your problem? I said, problem. He said, You saw me last year. I should have fucking killed this guy. I didn't even wear him out like fuck razor. I scored last night. So I'm getting sent down. And before he can say anything, coach's like, Mackenzie, let's go. And I see the big guy out there again. So I go right over because that's how he did it. If you didn't think you did as well as you thought you did, you went and fought the guy again. So I go over and I give him a shot. I'm just like, come on, fuck it, let's go. And he gives me a cross-check bag. He's like, settle down and play some hockey or whatever he says. And I'm like, crap, and I'm just frustrated. I just line change. So now we're third period. We're losing by a goal. It's about 10 minutes left, so I'm done for the night. And I'm down by Razor. I'm down by Daryl Ray again. And uh Razor's like, what is your problem with the big lower lip? Like you're just pouting. Like, what's your problem? I said, Razor. I said, I scored last night. He yelled at me. I said, I said, this, I should have killed this guy. He goes, Do you know who he fought? I go, some brown guy. He goes, That's fucking Dave Brown. I'm like, Dave Brown, Charlie Brown, downtown Brown. Like, what are you talking about? I says, That's Dave Brown. And I go, What do you mean? Like Dave Brown of the Flyers? He goes, How about Dave Brown of the Flyers that got traded to Edmonton last year, you idiot? And I and I swear to God, I could feel like the blood, just like everything just ran out of me. So now we're getting down to two or three minutes, and the coach is like getting ready to wave the goalie over. Um, in my mind, I'm like, no, leave him in. It's a good team. Take the one goal loss. Don't because because exactly, if they get the empty net goal and go up two, guess who's going back on the ice? Now I know who he is. He's coming out, and I just poked him again in his own freaking building. And I'm like, don't. So we pull the goalie, they don't score. We lose three, two. I must have cleared the bench by about three feet jumping over. And Razor comes over, goes, You really didn't know who the I had no idea. I had no idea. And the best part is uh Brownie works for Philly. I've been working, you know, see him all the time. And I it took me three or four years, like, and I finally said, Hey, can I tell you a story that I think is funny, but I don't know if you'll find it funny. And I've able to tell him the story or whatever. I said, Yeah, yeah, I finally went back out.

SPEAKER_02 52:15

I think you probably would have killed me that second time, but Dave Brown, Charlie Brown, downtown downtown Brown.

SPEAKER_05 52:24

Remember that I had my first NHL fight against the absolute heavyweight champ, left-handed 6'6. Oh my gosh. The guys after, like, you really didn't know who that was?

SPEAKER_07 52:36

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SPEAKER_02 53:18

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SPEAKER_02 54:55

Well, you actually fight. He'd come out on the ice. How you doing, kid? Because we skated in Saskatoon and uh in the summers. Yeah. Brent Ashton would get ice or be Brownie and Scrutlin and Harry Gansher and all these guys, and they would let us younger guys skate, me Corey Kosher, uh young Sharkey, Terry Clark, and because Wendell was skating and Joey was skating there. So Brownie was so good to me, right? Like the first time we played, and I told this, I think, on the cast here a couple weeks ago, the first time we played them, fucking Sudzi came up and punched me in the ribs and said, Hey lad, and you know, Ryan was just he was a puncher, as Holly will will attest. Ribs, shoulder, whatever. You had to be ready to you knew he was gonna smack you or something. And he hit me in the ribs and he said, Hey kid. And I kind of was I was cutting my stick and I kind of went, Oh, Jesus. And he goes, Listen, you watch that Dave Brown tonight, he's all left. I'm thinking, I ain't going near him. Not gonna see it up close. Who gives a shit what hand he throws with?

SPEAKER_04 56:28

Don't worry. I know who he is. I'm not going anywhere near him.

SPEAKER_05 56:33

Yeah, I'm not as dumb as that Mackenzie guy. I know who he is.

SPEAKER_04 56:36

He told the story, and I go, What do you mean you were cutting your stick? You used mine. You never cut a stick off in your career.

SPEAKER_02 56:46

Sorry with that. Mac, they wouldn't make my they wouldn't send my sticks to St.

SPEAKER_04 56:52

Louis because there's no way they thought you were gonna play.

SPEAKER_02 56:58

There's no way they wanted to pay in their budget for these sticks because they thought there's no way this fucking kid can stay in the NHL. Oh my goodness. They just kept sending them back. And finally, I I was using day uh Wayne Babbage's sticks that were well, three years old. Uh wouldn't co host.

SPEAKER_05 57:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:18

And uh Holly came into the stick room one day and goes, What the fuck is this? And I said, That's my sticks, and he said, This isn't a stick, you know? It's kind of and I don't know what the hell he compared it to, but anyway, the blade was as long as the shaft, I think. Yeah, and that's all I had, and they wouldn't get me sticks. So finally he just said, use mine. Now he's got 200 of them. Okay, I got zero. He's got 200 sticks, and he's probably got I would say four different types of sticks, people trying to seduce him to come into their company or whatever. Yeah, and uh so I could have the Christian or the Easton or the Sherwood or whatever. And so he he's given me this stick, he's like, here, use this. And they were Eastons, right? And uh, so I started using the stick, and that from that day on, I never taped a stick, I never, I never cut a stick, I never, I never touched a stick. Uh seven years later, he gets traded or he signs with Dallas. I come to training camp, I got no sticks. I say, Where's my sticks? He goes, That's beautiful. I don't have any sticks for you.

SPEAKER_05 58:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

So the day of the day of training camp when I needed sticks, they had to call Dallas. They overnight two dozen sticks back to me, and then I had to order my own sticks. It's the first time a stick came to St. Louis with my name on them.

SPEAKER_05 59:04

That's incredible. That is awesome.

SPEAKER_04 59:10

I'll take care of you out there too.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

It was pretty easy too, Mac. You just went over to his his stall and you just went in there and you just reached in and you grabbed a handful of them. When you go on the road, you'd grab, like, okay, say you needed six sticks on the road for three games, take six sticks out, write 39, because he never would write his name or number on them because people would steal them at the airport. Yeah, and I would write 39 on them, and the trainers knew which ones were mine and which ones were Holly's, and that was how I used my sticks. I would I I never had a new stick from him. I never had a new stick for seven years. I just had used ones. And bent ones.

SPEAKER_05 59:55

Well, what's incredible what you said too, though, is he didn't put his number on them because he steal them at the airport because we flew commercial, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:01

Yeah, that's what I was talking about.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:03

I don't get the what do you mean you flew commercial? Yeah, you know, played overnight. If you won that night, you got to go out. If you didn't, back to the hotel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:14

Yeah, that's why guys love to play in the card game because they would get an aisle seat automatically.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:18

Exactly right. Exactly right.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:21

And if you were lucky enough to have no one in the middle, you'd put the seat down and use that as the card table.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:27

Yep. Connecting on airports.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:30

Yeah, those are the days. And then what was the worst, Mac? You know, you'd go, you know, we would go and say, play Minnesota, Toronto, Detroit, and then come home and you know, a 6 a.m. commercial flight.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:46

And the coach would stop on the the uh aisle of the airplane and go, hey, on the ice at two o'clock, and you sit there and four hours sleep and a double connector. We just left the bar a few hours ago.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:04

And usually, usually the asshole never even came out. He sent the assistant coaches out to run this practice because it was just escape.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:09

And you wonder why we didn't get hurt more. We never stretch. No. Your equipment was barely dry from the game before.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:18

Oh, mine was always dry. I didn't play as much as you. Oh, anytime, guys. Absolutely love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

Next time we have you on, we're gonna we're gonna talk a little bit about uh some of the pranks you guys pulled because I knew you and Marty, Marty Brodeur. And I think you guys had one more guy that was in that Turner Stevenson?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

That was in that little uh threesome, or there was maybe four of you guys that hung around and constantly he was a tough kid.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:56

Turner was a great guy. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Went uh he lived down the street, so we carpooled everywhere. I went over to the house one night, uh, dressed as Santa, it was Christmas, and he's I don't know what he was thinking. He said his Rottweiler after me. Like, what are you doing? What are you doing dressed as Santa Claus? Like, who sticks a dog on Santa Claus?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:19

I don't care if you recognize me from Philadelphia.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:22

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But yeah, great guys. Had a lot of fun with them.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:27

We'll get some stories out of you the next time about that group and what you guys had. Listen, love having you on. Love the story, love uh the interaction. The fact that you're updated with the league right now is awesome because when I see you guys in the press box, it it rejuvenates me a little bit because I because I know like you guys can BS with us a little bit, and then you you know if I ask you a question that's serious enough, you walk away, give me an answer, and you don't worry about it uh going anywhere else. It's we're kind of a vault when it comes to information, and it's just old guys talking about uh about what we could change, and and I think that's pretty cool. So thanks again, buddy, and love every time we appreciate it.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:15

Well, any time for you guys, absolutely love it. A lot of fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:18

Until next time, Ice Guardians sign it off.