MIKE KEANE | Ice Guardians Ep 37

Kelly Chase and Brett Hull have three time Stanley Cup champion Mike Keane on the podcast this week. Keaner tells his version of the story about the night he spent in jail with Brian Skrudland, and what it was like playing in Montreal to start his NHL career. Keaner also talks about having Hully as a teammate in Dallas, watching him do crossword puzzles in the locker room, and the time Hully got kicked out of practice. Hully asks Keaner about getting to play in the World Juniors with Team Canada and the team brawl against the Russians. Hully and Keaner talk about winning multiple Cups in different cities and the guys talk about playing for Hitch and the kind of coach he was.

Ice Guardians, presented by Siteman Cancer Center, comes to you from the Window World Studios.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:34

Well, folks, welcome to Ice Guardians. I'm Kelly Chase, along with my best buddy Brad Hall, and a great friend, not a good friend, a great friend, and one of the ultimate team players, Mike Keen, in our Window World studios, brought to you by Seitman Cancer Center. And when I say ultimate team player, I'm talking about a guy that won three Stanley Cups in three different cities and somehow convinced his wife that Winnipeg was the place to retire. That's love. That is love right there.

SPEAKER_05 1:11

Well, when you when you when you bring a girl from Moose Jaw. Thank you. When you bring a girl from Moose Jaw, Winnipeg is New York City. So you're you're we're good there.

SPEAKER_06 1:25

Who was our old buddy that uh he grew up in Moose Jaw and he said, Where's Moose Jaw? He's like six seat from his asshole.

SPEAKER_05 1:37

It's good, it's good to see you, fellas. Thanks for having me. Likewise. Chaser, you beat me down. I promised I'd come on, and uh I can't break my promise, so it's uh it's good to be here. How are you guys?

SPEAKER_04 1:49

I know you don't like doing these. You hate as a matter of fact, you hate doing these, but well, why would you hate doing these? We've had all your cronies on around you pounding on you a little bit, and we we we think, well, we'll put Keener on last.

SPEAKER_05 2:05

Typical. Who's who's the who's the cowards actually shooting, you know, shooting shots from the Who's taking some shots?

SPEAKER_04 2:12

Yeah, yeah. Who's the who's the cowards? Uh don't say don't say Screwy. Jimmy Jimmy Mack praises, praises, praises. Yeah. Just a little shot in. Screwy just pounded you. So Screwy.

SPEAKER_05 2:26

Yeah, Screwy. Coming from the guy, he he went to go one night, he went to go hit Peter Forsberg. Peter Forsberg stood him up right in the middle, ruptured his sternum. So so I'm not sure if he told the story. No, uh, but so he so uh next next morning we we played back to back, ready to fly out. We're in Calgary. He couldn't get out of bed. So I helped him, I helped him to the edge of his bed. He says, Okay, good, I'm good. He's like, I have to leave for practice. No, no, no, no, good. Tell tell uh you know soup, I'm good. I went to practice, came back, he was still on the edge of the bed in his underwear. Uh like two hours later, I went, screw me, what the hell? He said, I can't, I can't move. I I can't move. So bring up all the guys, and he was absolutely screaming. So finds out he has a ruptured sternum. And like two years later, we're playing you know with kids in the pool, and he kind of did something, he goes, Oh, I said, What? He says, Oh, it's still, I still feel it. I still feel the so it's uh and and he's given me shit.

SPEAKER_06 3:33

Yeah, yeah. Well, and I'll tell you what, you know, I've run into Peter uh awfully owes you at some uh card shows, and I don't think people really understood how big that kid was. Who? Forsberg.

SPEAKER_05 3:49

He was a solid he was an absolute, he's the he was a tank back then, and obviously he he liked to hit, knew how to hit.

SPEAKER_06 3:59

Was he not the inventor of the reverse shoulder?

SPEAKER_05 4:02

For sure. Right? And and he was he was a magician at it. Like he buried so many people just because that's the way he liked to play. He liked to play the physical part of the game. And he he used to absolutely crush guys, and unfortunately, Screwy was one of them.

SPEAKER_06 4:18

I mean, that was basically the end of the year for Screwy. I remember that. That's yeah, it was uh my first year there in Dallas.

SPEAKER_05 4:25

Yeah, yeah, it was it was tough. It was a uh but no, it's uh Brian is a uh one of my one of my favorite teammates. We we we were roommates and we had some fun together, and he he liked to have fun and uh just a great guy.

SPEAKER_06 4:40

Yeah, I agree with that 100%.

SPEAKER_04 4:42

You know, did tell us a story about uh a little altercation you guys had outside the bar one night where you and Corson ended up in jail. Actually, Screwey ended up in jail too, didn't he?

SPEAKER_05 4:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll we all we all spent time together. We all wanted to be roommates that night.

SPEAKER_06 4:58

So I thought see, that that story he told, and his buddy that he grew up with was a police officer. He was a policeman.

SPEAKER_05 5:07

Yes, he was a police officer. So he was the one that so he was the one that's another I think he played in Saskatoon now, so I'm not sure. Um what did Drake another guy?

SPEAKER_04 5:19

Let's get the real story.

SPEAKER_05 5:21

That that that well no, it was uh long time ago, but we were believe it or not, me and Shane Corsten were the brains of the group that night. So it it's it kind of says something for the night. So it was rookie party. We went to Palomino Club in uh Winnipeg here having a good time. Um all the guys want to go downtown. Said, don't go downtown, stay, stay here, stay, stay here. This is a good time. We all go downtown. So really, Shane and I went downtown to watch the guys. And it sounds because we were usually the guys that had to be watched. But so so it was get downtown, end of the night, this altercation of a of a uh this one guy was basically beating up this this woman. So he stepped in. Next thing you know, a couple other guys come out and a fight breaks out. That that's that's basically it. We find out that there's uh sh she was a working girl and this is the pimp and yada yada, the whole spiel. So um probably Screwy didn't mention that that my father was uh was a warden of a Stony Mountain Penitentiary. So so that went over well when I got home. Um so we got thrown in jail that night uh the whole bit after um we get out on you know on the mediation. Um it gets the the charges don't get uh thrown out, but we had to go back to mediation. So Brian Brian didn't come back, but uh Shane and I had had to come back to Winnipeg. And so uh in in the mediation room was uh both lawyers for both sides, uh defendants, and Shane and I. So we're talking about basically how things could have got resolved, and it's like okay, good, this is working well, we're gonna be back on our flight by four o'clock to get back to our team. Uh then the one gentleman goes, uh, well, I want compensation. I I my suit got ripped. I'm like, oh, this is not gonna go well. So so uh Shane goes, Well, yeah, my my suit got ripped too. Well, you know, my watch, my watch got ripped too. It's like, yeah, well, I was watching. Then things get heated. One goes, yeah, fuck you. Yeah, yeah, fuck you. And they both start standing up at each other. I'm like, oh my god. So the police get get involved again. So we both step back down and there was no conversation, that's where it ended. Uh uh, good time on my first time back to Winnipeg. Yeah. How old were you, Junior? First year. First year, 21. 21.

SPEAKER_04 8:05

First year, pro you know that always makes it good for the coach, too. But you had Bernsey, right? And he was in the minors with you.

SPEAKER_05 8:12

I had I had Pat Burns, and he was he was uh he's an old cop too, right? Ex-policeman, yes. He he was uh he was uh he understood, and like I said, my my my father was uh was a warden of 40 years at uh Maximum Security Prison, so I understood the you know the landscape of of uh police officers. So uh Pat Pat was if not my parents the most influential person on on uh my my career for actually giving me a chance to play. Well, we were together actually uh at the World Juniors also, but when we had the uh had the dust up in uh in Shell Sovacky. So um he knew me, and then Pat got the job with with uh Montreal and then down to Sherbrooke. So we had a little connection also, which you know helped the cause.

SPEAKER_06 9:00

You know, I love hearing the stories about guys like you. You know, you go, you play junior, you you never get drafted, you make it to the NHL, you win three Stanley Cups, and not just you you weren't just on the team that won. You were an integral part of all three teams in winning the Stanley Cup. And uh how do you think you get missed and like go undrafted? Yeah, I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 9:34

Yeah, it's it's something you look back on too. And I and I I've talked to Serge Savard about it. Serge, Pat Burn, Pat Burns and Serge Savard were the most important people. Um give me a chance to to play. I got a tryout with Montreal uh when I didn't get drafted. Um after that, after that camp signed a contract. Um it just it just happens. And looking forward now, there is people that that get overlooked, but it's um I wasn't a fantastic skater, I was undersized. Um Chaser and I actually broke into Moosha at the same time and uh a really poor choice to Mooshjaw. They they let Chaser go and he decided to uh beat the shit out of us for four years in uh Saskatoon uh with that group that they had. Um and you you it's just a challenge of that's all uh I want to do. Uh I want to play in the National Arch League. And and um I knew what what my strengths were and and knew what coaches needed, and and I think that's sometimes overlooked on on uh what coaches want. Like that's your boss. Like, and that's it's doctors, lawyers, whatever you are, you have you have someone to answer to. And for you, if your boss tells you to do A, B, and C, you better do that well. All right. If not, they get pissed off. And and uh, you know, I learned from uh some incredible people around me from Montreal, and and uh you know, next thing you know, it's it's uh 30 years later. I'm talking about your uh your foot in the crease and then life's good. Right?

SPEAKER_04 11:06

It's uh you're growing up um in Winnipeg, and you're God's country.

SPEAKER_05 11:16

God's country.

SPEAKER_04 11:17

Right, God's country. Uh you're trying to find your way a little bit, undersized. And I mean, look, I I know all about this whole thing, and and and you and I were rooming together when I got caught in Moose Jaw, and you know that whole scenario. We went over this before, but um for you growing up, how do you how do you take like what is your main i my thing was I always had a goal. So like my goal was like I want to do, I want to make this midget team. I wanted to make okay, I okay. And the next goal was I wanted to make the junior B team, then I wanted to uh you know get into the tier two, and then I wanted to be in the Western League, and then I wanted to get then Herb Ragland was in my sights because Herbie was a guy that was a was a third line player that I wanted to take his job, and then and I wanted, you know, and so it was always how do I get that goal? That was my goal. That's that's exactly what was it for you, Keener? Like, what did you do that sort of said, okay, I'm gonna inspire myself or run like because you and you were in unreal shape. Like, I don't remember seeing a guy well, prior to that, that was in better shape than you were. So um, what was it that just you stood out for you to say, look at I'm gonna freaking I'm gonna get in front of this guy?

SPEAKER_05 12:52

That that that exact philosophy, and and and it's scary that you hit it right in the head because um, first of all, conditioning. Uh we were gonna get we're gonna get uh oh muscled, that's part of the game. You have to have enough juice to get up and get the buck back. You have to have enough juice to go against six foot two guys and and win your battles. But um it's it's so funny to say that, Chase, because it's as soon as I I was with Montreal um to my last to my last year playing with Manitoba Moose, I used to put up guys that were in on the right wing position. And I I used to know that, okay, these are the guys that are I have to take their I have to push for a job, and then once you're quote established, I looked at the draft picks coming up and and all the Montreal draft picks and see who is trying to take my job. And I and I I put them on the wall every year on the names of of who it is, and when I worked out, that's who I had to beat out for jobs every year. And it was it's a it's a um superstar players like Holly. I I'm I'm sure they had that that uh sense of paranoia, but not like not like people.

SPEAKER_04 14:03

No, you didn't even put them up on the wall because that wasn't the job that you were getting anyway, so it wasn't even a right, right. It's like it's just added guy on the wall because but but the guys that were those second, third, down to fourth, fifth line guys, I always thought I should put them up there.

SPEAKER_05 14:23

Yeah, and that's and that's the and that's the philosophy because every year, every year is a tryout. Every every day is a tryout for for third and fourth line players.

SPEAKER_07 14:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:34

Um, especially undrafted, uh, unsigned. So um I want to prove people wrong. You know, just like everyone, you had a little bit of a of a chip on your shoulder and you wanted to um give a little bit of a FU to people, and and uh so it it uh it worked out. And um the the the people that I was surrounded by early in my career in Montreal um didn't give me a chance to fail. Like it's it's the the the you know when you're around Mr. Bellevo and and Ari Richard and Serge Chavard and and uh Dickie Moore, Ivan Cornway, like it's you see them on a daily basis. And then my my first year, first year with Montreal, uh Bob Ganey, Larry Robinson, Patty Waugh, Guy Carbano, who basically learned, taught me how to play um pale kill, how to how to hone my trade, uh Chelli, uh uh Screwy, like it just those those you you learned your trade firsthand by absolute legends. So so and then and then you throw on the jersey where I remember one night in in uh at home we we beat Hartford 4-1, uh, probably against you, Chaser. Um uh and and we got booed off the ice. So it it and I'm like, what what the hell's going on here? Like what's happening? And the top guys, yeah, that they felt we didn't play well enough. So so it's just a whole different mindset on on expectations on what you're supposed to do every night. And when you go out in in in Montreal, the stories are true. They're like they're they're you get people coming up to you and you know, you'll praise you when things are good, but when things aren't doing good, hey, what the hell? Like, wake up and like, yeah, yeah, thanks. Can you pass us all? It's like uh, you know, so it's it's just a different way of of uh of living when you're in Montreal, and it was uh it was a great learning curve for you.

SPEAKER_04 16:34

That's just different than the other places.

SPEAKER_05 16:37

I think so. And and until until Patty and I got traded, I didn't know any better. So so to win the Stanley Cup was the start of the year goal every year. It's not making the playoffs, it's not hope to make the playoffs, it's not, hey, let's see what happens at Chris Start. When you put when you start the year, your goal is to win the Stanley Cup. And and I was fortunate, or um, I guess great, great learning curve. My first year we lost to uh Calvary. And and I expect that we go back every year, and we didn't, uh obviously, but one one years later in '92, and then that's you you want more. You want more, and then you're you you know you move on and uh play with some great teams and and great players, Hall of Fame players, and outstanding people, and you you happen to you know chip in there every time you can.

SPEAKER_06 17:33

You know, it's played a long time, played with a lot of players, and a lot of people are big hockey fans, but you know, there's two guys uh that I know in my life that love hockey more than anything, and it's Wayne Gretzky and Mike Keene. And uh it it was, you know, I used to kind of laugh, and you know, we'd be on the road and we'd get off the bus, check in a hotel, and he goes, Come on, we're going to the bar, watch hockey, and I'm like, the hell I am. I'm like, I'm sick of hockey, and you just couldn't get enough of it. And he had the TV on and the playoffs in the in the meal room, and you just sit there and watch every game, and it's uh for your career.

SPEAKER_05 18:23

I know, but you you know, you used to get so mad, and I I I think that's why I I even liked it more because it pissed you off. It's even better that it's like and it's you know, and this is for from from people that don't know, did anyone ever talk about your crosswords? Yeah, once in a while. How about Holly's crosswords? So so Holly Holly is hands down the the smartest dumb person you'll ever meet. So so it's so his every morning, every morning would be the routine, you come in, you do your thing, right? You go in the crosswords, yeah. Yeah, but he would he would squat down and stretch with his coffee and and do the New York Times. And for anyone that does that does crossroads, the New York Times is probably the most difficult. He'd do it in 10 minutes. So so and my favorite part wasn't that. It was people that would come up to him and say, hey, Holly, what do you got? You know, throw me a bone. And he'd turn around and he'd look at them and just giggle. Basically saying, go get your crayons, go do the bunch of sketch, what you're doing. But like, like get away from me. Like it's it's because you don't have a chance to get one.

SPEAKER_06 19:38

Yes, especially when it was like John Sim.

SPEAKER_05 19:44

Or a demon. Any any demon. God, don't pass to the D. But it was that's the the those are the those are things where you just remember of just the the fantastic times of uh not not the on-in eyes part, but the uh the anyone that says they missed the game, I'm not sure they missed the actual hockey part of the game. They missed they missed the locker room and the guys and uh the overall after the game. Practice. Well, well, well, Holly's practice. So this is a this is uh also a uh so Ken Hitchcock, the stories are well documented. The uh like he a different philosophy about the game. So we won one night, and uh again, we won nine, you know, one one night and got and we got shit from from Hitch. Again. Um so he said that he said that scoring goals isn't important. So next day in practice, uh we're doing a drill which basically you know you escape down the ice. Each each man on your line gets a shot. So Holly, I'm I'm behind Grant Marshall in line. Holly gets down, he he beaver tails for the puck, which he doesn't do. He doesn't he doesn't ask for the puck. Just throw Mogus in the puck. He shoots it, gets it, shoots it right in the corner of the uh of the ice. So then, oh, so kind of Marshall goes, hmm, let's see how this plays out. So again, they come back down, supposed to be the next person shoots. Holly's beaver tailing for the puck again. Hey, hey! Give him the puck again, gets it again, breakaway. Like five through that, snaps it right in the corner again. Like right from the slot. Third time he does it again. So finally hitch blows it down. He goes, Holly, what the what the hell? What are you doing? Well, it's not about scoring goals, jump again the puck deep and you know, cycling. Get the fuck off the ice! Like, what are you doing? Get off the ice. So he goes off the ice, he saunters off the ice. So uh after practice, Grant Marshall and I kind of go, hey, we should call Holly to make sure he's okay. Like it's you know, he got kicked off the ice. Uh we call him. Hey, Holly, hey, how you doing? Hey, good. Listen, I gotta go, I have to make this put. He's on the course already. By the time we're off dance, he's on the course. So obviously, the getting kicked off dance wasn't that big of a deal for him.

SPEAKER_04 22:10

We're going to be back in a minute for a little bit more of this and a little bit more of the youth of Mike Keenan. Mike Keen. Not Keenan. Keen.

SPEAKER_05 22:19

Ooh, also stories.

SPEAKER_04 22:21

Who we love. Back in a minute on Ice Guardians.

SPEAKER_06 22:25

I'm Brad Hall. I'm Kelly Chase.

SPEAKER_04 22:28

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SPEAKER_04 24:16

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SPEAKER_06 24:20

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SPEAKER_06 24:49

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SPEAKER_04 25:49

No question.

SPEAKER_05 25:50

Yeah, like I think everyone back in the day, it's it's a little more uh, I don't want to say it's handpicked now because the players are so good. I I don't know if if there's, and I probably should have, you know, paid more attention, but I don't know if there's uh undrafted players that make their world juniors now, they're all uh high-end draftable players. But um, you know, I I got an invite and and my my game, similar to Achilles back in the day, believe it or not, was more physical and more uh uh fighting, um, which you can't do at the World Juniors. So you kind of had to pick up your game. And um Theron Fleury, who uh was a teammate and um in my opinion should be in the Hall of Fame. Uh that's that's just that just my opinion. But uh um an undersized five foot six player that did what he did in the NHL is um stupid what he did. It's just remarkable.

SPEAKER_06 26:45

Think about how good he'd be now in the game. Oh there's a million of those guys. It's like he'd be like he'd get 200 points a year.

SPEAKER_05 26:52

Yeah. He'd be just dynamic. Um so we were we were teammates and we were we had the chance to play together at the World Juniors and uh showed well enough. And you know, you know, like I said, the uh the two coaches were uh Burt Templeton, who liked spicy, spicy players, and uh Pat Burns. So um I think again, knowing knowing who who they were and um doing a little bit of homework on them, um I had to play a certain way and stood out enough to make the team. So it uh it worked out well. Where did uh Pat Burns coach he was he was in uh I I couldn't tell you uh Quebec League, uh I don't know. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 27:35

In the Quebec League. But he but when you guys play in that that series, you get to the Russians and end up having a brawl and they take away the gold medal, correct?

SPEAKER_05 27:48

Correct. We were uh we had to beat uh we had to beat uh the Russian by two goals to get to win the gold, and we were up. I don't remember the scores either four, two, or three, one. We were we were up by two. And um I was on the ice, so I don't know. Uh I'm not gonna say who started it because I don't know. So I was on the ice, but uh uh altercation happened on the on the ice, so a five on five started.

SPEAKER_04 28:18

Was it you? Was it Everett Santa Pass on the ice?

SPEAKER_05 28:21

Myself, Everett Santa Past, Luke Richardson, Tafio, um, and who else? I'm I'm not sure who else was on, and that's and then a five-five started, and then next thing you know, there's the whole teams are on.

SPEAKER_06 28:38

So it's it was in the pregame. It was during the game that it happened.

SPEAKER_05 28:43

Yes, yeah. I thought the pre-well, actually, we we brought we actually brought the US also that tournament. Also, we we it was uh yeah, we were uh we had some we had some spice in that team. So it's um the token, uh the guys in in warm-up, the guys came across the red line and started taking our pucks, you know, which isn't a big deal, I think, in the US. I'm not sure. Um, but uh a couple guys didn't like it, and next thing you know, one of our goalies cheese grated a guy right in the face. And next thing you know, there's a there's a five on five going on in warm-up before the US came.

SPEAKER_04 29:23

Well, I mean that's old school. Then they shut they shut the lights off or something, and you guys put so you guys are fighting, and it's completely dark in the building.

SPEAKER_05 29:32

So we exactly so so they didn't know they didn't know what to do. So there's a a full-fledged brawl uh on the ice, so they shut the lights off, and um about 30 seconds. So my first reaction, I I got towards the boards because I didn't want to get uh sucker punched. There's a lot of that going on, so I uh got my back towards the boards, and then they came back on again, and then um continued on, I guess you'd say the hell out of a couple guys because I can remember that.

SPEAKER_04 30:04

What was it in Russia?

SPEAKER_05 30:06

Pardon me? Was it in Russia? In uh Piastani. So Czechoslovakia.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

Oh defenseman that started most of it and and was a tough guy was the the guy in Detroit. Konstantinov.

SPEAKER_05 30:23

Uh yes, yes, he he's the one, he's the one. Uh so I've I've I've watched it many times. I've seen it. So he uh so Craig Hoggood, who was a D-man for us, tried to try to sucker punch him and uh Konstinoff headbutt him knocked him out. I guess he uh I guess he got what he wished for, but it was a a little I was I was hoping we would continue. So uh things died down. Um and we were just assuming that because we've seen them before, that we would continue on. So the the gentleman comes in and said both teams are are suspended and everyone's upset and swearing the whole bit. But I was hoping uh that we would continue because I don't think they they could have continued. So when their balls going on, we're we're kind of skating around. I'm throwing over all their gloves and their sticks over the over the glass, and kids, kids are taking them and they're sprinting right out of the rink. So so they they they would have had no gear to continue. So I was throwing their helmets over and their gloves and their sticks, and and so I was kind of hoping that we would start up because we I think we we would win by default. Where was the game played? Uh PS Danny. Terra Slovakius. It was uh it was it was uh we we were like like we were crushed, but it was I I know uh I know we got a lot of backlash from it and and international play and everything else, but uh being being one of the people on the ice, I'm I'm glad if whoever came out first, I'm glad we got the support. So so it's uh things would have been uh very south if it if it didn't.

SPEAKER_04 32:08

Now some someone initiated something in Canada so you guys were able that made you the not that it's the same, but they made medals for you, correct?

SPEAKER_05 32:20

Harold Ballard. Harold Ballard. He he made he made us all all gold medals. I still have it to the day. Um he he gave us all gold medals, uh I sent them all to the players. And I I still have it up in my office to this day.

SPEAKER_04 32:36

Wasn't it grapes that Don Cherry that's initiated that?

SPEAKER_05 32:40

Well, he he was he was our biggest, he he was our biggest supporter. Uh I I think I think uh him and like him and I believe the name is Brian Williams back in the CBC days, that they were kind of going at it back and forth, and and Don Cherry, who was our our our biggest supporter, said, I don't care what happens about any medals, they did what they had to do to to protect each other. And and and being one of the players on the ice, I'm glad that happened. So, but you would have won the gold medal.

SPEAKER_06 33:11

We would have won the gold medal. So you were the champion, so that's that's cool that they did that. And uh yeah, I'm not sure. Maybe that might be the only nice thing Harold Ballard ever did in his life, I think. He's a little bit before my time, so that was your time. So it's you know, I remember when my dad was playing in Winnipeg and he scored 77 goals and broke Phil Esposito's record, and he wouldn't put it uh on the on the jump, not the jumbotron back then, but what was that thing they had Chaser on the ticker? The ticker ticker board, yeah. And he wouldn't uh he wouldn't put it up there.

SPEAKER_05 33:51

Yeah, no, he's not too popular. No, back in the day. He wouldn't survive in today's game, I'd say.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

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SPEAKER_06 34:30

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SPEAKER_04 34:59

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Right now, get 0% APR for 36 months. Call 800 GetWindows for details about credit cost and terms. For new accounts, the APR for purchase is 29.99%, subject to credit approval. But let's talk about your cups. And uh, you know, doing it, you know, I was lucky enough to do it on two different teams, and and they were both completely different. And uh I can't, you know, I've hearing stories from uh Carbo about uh the cups there in Montreal, and then you know, winning the one in Dallas, it's just so completely different, is it not?

SPEAKER_05 36:13

That is it's it's that's exactly true. And people say which is the best one. There is no best one. Like Montreal was incredible. Montreal, the first one was incredible. Um the people, the the energy for Montreal, the first time ever uh fulfilling your dream. Uh second time was an up and down year with with Patrick and I getting traded to Colorado. So that was that was totally different winning that with a a new group, incredible group of guys. And then the third was was three with three different teams, which is also you know unique. So there is no there is no best one. Um you just look back and you look at how fortunate I was to be with incredible, incredible group of people that are uh it's every cliche could be used of on the same page, uh uh doing the right things, whatever it takes to win, doesn't matter who wins. Um, and then you know, having that chance to uh experience it for uh two or three weeks after. And then and then the biggest important part that people don't understand is that there's um I see Holly, I see you once every five years, but it's it's uh like like every other player when you win the cup, uh you see someone that you're wanted with, you pick up like it was yesterday, right? So so it it's tough to explain, but it's uh it's really cool.

SPEAKER_06 37:39

Yeah, and you know what? I I have found uh, you know, I was uh kind of a different kind of guy, and uh, you know, I kind of could rub management and coaches uh the wrong way a little bit. Um could you be anywhere? But I have found that you're you're treated with more respect. Like I don't know how to say it. It's like all of a sudden, like you know, leak, you know, Gary Bettman and Bill Daly and other GMs and and coaches from the past, uh they they look at you with a little more reverence after you've won that that cup. And it's like, you know, that's you know, he's part of that special group. And I can't even imagine what guys on Montreal, you know, like you know, Lamaire and with 15. You know, I think it'sn't it?

SPEAKER_05 38:40

Yeah, it's just it's just a different level of of uh I guess respect. And I'm I'm it not that it should matter. Like the there's there's Hall of Fame players that didn't win a Stanley Cup that are incredible legend players. Uh you know, you have Ray Bork who who would have been Ray Bork if he didn't win. Right. Um so so it's it's it's a different level of of but I once you once you do win, because I think people that are in the game know how tough it is to do. And and how how I do appreciate the fact that you said you rub people the wrong way. Um like it's it's like you're you're a dick. Like it's it's like when you little like when you came from I'll never I'll never forget when you came from St. Louis, it's like you know, the rumors and you know knowing Chaser and the bit going, yeah, he's he's just he's just hard. So when you came, you were about offense. Uh you know, you you know you came from you came from scoring, I don't know, a hundred goals that year, and you're you you know hitch was hitch was hitch, and we're all about defense, and you wanted to go this way and not not not worry about defense and hitch was this way, and we're all kind of going this way, and you you finally turn that huge brain onto yours and you kind of bought into it. Yeah, I think the year we won, you got 40, but you're on the ice, last minute of the ice um of the game, and then sure enough, you you know you you get the Stanley Cup winner. So it's it's uh that's that's what I mean about everyone buying in. Like you do whatever it takes uh to help the team in in whatever aspect that is to fulfill the the big goal.

SPEAKER_06 40:18

Yeah, because if you didn't figure out how to buy in, you were gonna be a dinosaur because the game had changed and it was it was really lock it down defense.

SPEAKER_05 40:31

Oh like did you have to say lock it down like like this is so so another let you know let's do another hit you know hit story where he for some reason so after every game win or lose he'd come in and give a shit um and he'd wait for the he'd wait for alternate players to come in for probably two or like two or three minutes wait down, they all came in, get in here. They uh they all come in here and they kick him out. Right after and they kick them all out and then say lock it down, and then he'd give a shit for a while. Another and that's why I can't believe you said lock it down. Oh and but for but for all the for all the the the Hitchcock stories, the one thing I will never say about Hitch is that he was a bad coach. He was a fantastic coach. He was a he was a it was a love-hate relationship where we we loved to have fun, and he hated to see us have fun. Oh, he hated it.

SPEAKER_06 41:33

So it was we'd come in that little room that we'd have our pregame meetings in, and you would draw that character. I can't even say the word without laughing. Oh the cartoon character of Ken Hitchcock, and he would come in, and it was either him or Jarvis would have the dry erase, and without even like wouldn't even look at it, they just take the eraser and erase it, and then they're bulletin points about you know, they could have just left him up there all year because it didn't matter who we were playing, it was the same points. It was out of the middle track, make sure the track. Yeah, track.

SPEAKER_04 42:17

Keener, did you not go out on the ice and uh maybe put on a track suit with pillows stuffed in it and imitate well maybe, but it was a it was uh because we've heard it a couple times, and the guys like it was one of the greatest things.

SPEAKER_05 42:33

It was in the playoffs, wasn't it, against Colorado? It was it was we weren't uh I wasn't skating for some reason, and we were in uh uh No, no, I think it was I think it was uh it was LA, I think, because it was I was sweating, I was sweating getting ready. So it was like he was you guys, but he didn't so all coaches didn't come out because so you guys are smart enough, you guys run practice. So so they were all up watching us. Uh uh Rick Wilson, Doug Jarst all up watching us. So okay, whatever. So I grabbed his tracksuit and I I tucked in all the towels I could find in the building. And then went out there and put a hat on and put the mustache on and went out there and skied around and did get in here! Kind of held yourself up on the board. We you know, call guys in and he he's left-handed, so he kind of covered the board when he so he and I kind of look up top and I I hitch is just he is just snake-eyed me. I see Rick and Jarvin here like this up top like this. So it's he was yeah, he was he he he thought like he he I think every coach has their uh has their niche, and um he he wanted to pit, I think, self versus the team because he was so hard. Like he was so hard. On a perfect game. He wanted the perfect hockey game.

SPEAKER_06 44:05

Yeah, which would have been 0-0.

SPEAKER_05 44:08

Yes. And then happy and then pissed off if we you won or lost. So it doesn't matter. But it's there was to the to the point where I remember too in uh we were out east. We were playing Florida, Tampa, and somewhere else. We we haven't lost. We're dominating the road trip. The last game we're playing Florida, we we win 4-1 or 5-1. We gave up like eight shots all game. So he comes in again, lock it down. So the door shuts down. He starts giving he starts giving a shit about just we're sick of this shit. The coaches are sick of it. So I look down, I look down at Holly in the corner and I look down and kind of give him one of these going, what are you talking about? So I didn't start, okay. I didn't start this first of all before, you know, disclaimer. So um he looks down at me and goes, What's the what? I said, I don't know what you're so pissed off at. Like we dominated the road trip, but we're we're like we're just killing her right now, and you're pissed off. You're going, well, no, our track is like, yeah, yeah, whatever. So someone, not me, someone goes, Yeah, yeah, get out, get out, and then it just goes around, get out, get out, get out. And he just the whole room is chanting, get out. He's mother trucking us the whole way, you know. So he finally leaves the whole game, yeah, yeah, the music, the music goes back on, and then light light's good again.

SPEAKER_06 45:33

And you're like you're dead on because it it like galvanized the whole jazz singer because you know there's guys like me and you who would say what we felt, but then there was like you know, Hatch and Mo. Uh, you know, they would you know how they felt, but they would never say anything. Yeah, it was just kind of curious. All us against them.

SPEAKER_05 45:55

Yeah, yeah. And and it was the next the next morning, you know, we so we go uh out in Florida and kind of have a couple adult beverages, and uh next morning you come in. All you want in the morning is your coffee. That's all you want. We're in the we're gonna wait for coffee. He comes down, hey guys, how are hey? You know, catch a game last night. I'm like, can listen, can I get a coffee in me before we start talking about Boston's power play? Like whatever you're thinking about doing. Like, I don't know what doing, but he uh he he he was a he was difficult to play for because he's so demanding, but he was a very good coach, prepared the teams very well.

SPEAKER_06 46:35

Yeah, he that I said it the other day to Chaser. I said he was unbelievable X's and O's and strategy, but he was the worst at communicating and being able to figure out players. Like he thought every player was the exact same. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, that's the only thing.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

Coaches that can figure it out. They figure out that not everybody's the same, and you gotta talk to each guy a little different. Yeah, and uh Hitch was funny, you know. Like I I'd have some interesting conversations with him as just as a broadcaster, I'd get in the room with him, but he would spend an afternoon talking to you about it. Like he loved you all talked about Hully, you talked about Keener and Gretzel love the game. Ken Hitchcock loves the game. I mean, this guy watches him. Jesus. If he was better communicating. I just were talking to you about well, you watched the game last night, you know, with Boston and Montreal. So you see like the defensive uh lapses were all caused by the middle of the ice collapsing and yada yada, and you're just looking at him going, it was Friday night. You think I sat at home and watched the fucking Boston Montreal game? Yeah. And by the way, I'm in Florida. I don't even like I don't even work, like I'm a broadcaster, I'm not even a scout or a freak. But he's dialed into hockey, man. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:12

And they all are. That's what they do. Like it's a whole it's a whole different religion what they do. And I remember Paul Maurice, who was here, um, when he was in between jobs, he went to and this is after this is after him coaching in the HL for 15, 16 years. He went to he went to Russia for a year to to stay sharp. So so it's a it's a whole different way of life.

SPEAKER_06 48:37

Like it's it's in their blood and they love it. Scotty Bowman still goes to every Tampa Bay game, I think.

SPEAKER_05 48:43

Yeah, it's it's in your blood. If you're a coach, it's it's in you.

SPEAKER_04 48:48

Well, I've said this before, you know like talking about talking to Coop. I got in his car one day uh in the in the middle of the winter. We were playing them the next day. We're gonna go have some dinner. He picks me up, and there's this shh music is just atrocious rap shit. Just banging and on my kits, and he gets back in the car. I go, what the f what are you listening to? And he said, Well, you can't get left behind. I go, what do you mean? He goes, listen to it in the locker room. And if I don't understand what they're listening to, then I can't keep up with them, and then if I can't keep up with them, I lose them. And I thought about it for a long time, you know, because I it's something I still think about. But so he basically was saying, like, this isn't this is what these guys are listening to, and I gotta be sharp enough to pay attention to try and keep up with at least paying attention to with what they're listening to. Because um, I don't want to get left behind. And I was like, that's pretty interesting for a coach to recognize that.

SPEAKER_05 49:59

That's valid for sure. That's why he's won at every level.

SPEAKER_04 50:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:03

Evolve or die.

SPEAKER_04 50:04

Yeah. Yeah. So, anyways, let's take one more break here. Ice Guardians, Mike Keene, Bret Hall, Kelly Chase. Back on Ice Guardians in a minute.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

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SPEAKER_04 50:57

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SPEAKER_04 51:54

Hold on a second. I got it. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 52:07

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SPEAKER_06 52:14

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SPEAKER_05 52:53

Yes, like not against each other, and like uh a little bit, weren't you? Like Big Mac was saying that they had a work release program in Sasuke too. Like it was just stupid. The guys they had every night they used to beat their shit out of us every day.

SPEAKER_06 53:11

And you know, what's your I I've asked this question. I go, you know, everyone talks about how tough everyone was. I go, did you have any good players on your team?

SPEAKER_04 53:21

Or was everyone just who were your good players, actually Jason? You know what's funny is there was about four guys on each team that were really good. Like, you know, you had Sakik and Kennedy and who and you know in in Swift, and you had you know you flee and and you know whoever in the U.S.

SPEAKER_05 53:45

Yeah, I appreciate me. Chuck me in this group. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 53:48

Dono and PA with uh I don't know, Kevin Todd and you know Manson was there. He was a pretty good player in junior. You had and then our our not our top forwards are Killer and Sean Van Allen. Oh Sean Van Allen. Yeah. So we we ended up we ended up uh you know it was like survival with us be survival with uh by uh checking and hitting and scaring the shit out of everybody, but it worked. Yeah, it worked, all right. We had a we had a hell of it, and you know, I wanted to play in Moose Just so bad. When I got cut, I was well, I was distraught, I was distraught. Like I was like, I think you remember me leaving. I was just like, I don't know, I don't know what to do. I don't know what I was to do. I scored two, had an assist, fought twice in the alum in the black and white game, cut. I was like, I go, I come out and I go, I got cut. You go, what? I go, I got cut, bullshit. I go, no, I got cut. Sure shit, I got cut. Anyway.

SPEAKER_05 55:02

Well, it worked it worked out for you. Yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_06 55:06

What was it about Moose Jaw that you wanted to play there so bad?

SPEAKER_05 55:11

So the the there was no draft back in the day, so it was uh it was a uh protection list. So Winnipeg Warriors moved to Mooshaw, and that was and that's where it happened. And that's they're the only reason why I played Mooshaw. Just so it went from Yeah, you had no choice, right? Yeah, yeah, like unless they trade means. And then and then once a team was sold, then everyone went to Winna to uh Musha. So so it's basically that simple. But it was a it's a it's a unbelievable little town. I I met my gorgeous wife Tammy there of over 40 years, and it's uh it was a it was a great experience. Like it was uh a great, a great again, um not give me a chance to fail. We our captain, his name is Mark McKay, he's an agent now, and he was uh one of the best captains you could ever have for a bunch of young kids, young idiot kids wanting to play hockey. Like he was uh he was fantastic. So um it was a great three years for me. Who's that you're talking about? Uh Mark McKay. Oh, okay. He was he was and he was he was sneaky tough. He never fought, but he led our team in points with 140 points uh as a 20-year-old, and um he was unbelievable. Like he was just he was a huge part of it. So then you learn a lot from your older players. Yeah, where uh where in Winnipeg are you living? We are seeing in between houses. We sold our place, so we're actually renting our house. What's that?

SPEAKER_06 56:55

People are moving there?

SPEAKER_05 56:59

Again, hard to believe, but you're kind of a dick.

SPEAKER_04 57:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:08

I'm not sure what kind of it's like fuck you guys.

SPEAKER_04 57:11

It's like it's like we'll send some vans if you're okay with that.

SPEAKER_05 57:18

We're still looking. We're still looking. So it's uh, you know, we're enjoying the sum right now, and so we're uh see. Tuxedo or Charles moving. That's that's uh yeah, yeah. We're in the city. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 57:31

Moving into the city, so you got some urban living?

SPEAKER_05 57:37

You know what? Now, now being probably 30 now, I could probably take you right about now. Yeah. I think I can take them right now. Well, with those little baby hands, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 57:52

You gotta go downtown so you can walk to a restaurant. No, wait a second. You're gonna go downtown so you can walk to the restaurant.

SPEAKER_06 58:05

Coming from Ray and Ray and Cheers.

SPEAKER_04 58:08

Wait, he's headed downtown so he can go to the keg.

SPEAKER_05 58:12

To the quill of Porcupine Plain? What are you?

SPEAKER_04 58:18

Yeah, Porcupine Plain. I go by there about once every four years.

SPEAKER_05 58:22

Because the buoy metropolis of Porcupine Plain is is like you have the Joe's chicken and breaks there? Like, what is it?

SPEAKER_04 58:30

You got you gotta tell me if great place to visit.

SPEAKER_05 58:36

Fucking guys. Listen, I what do you want? What do you want to know? Open book. What do you want to know?

SPEAKER_04 58:42

I love having you, Keener. Great sport, and um an Unreal Leader who I always look to for I look to for guidance when I and you know that I've called you when I've been in some tight spots, were uh looking for some leadership. I I really appreciate you, man. I I think that uh you're one of the quality people in our game. And Holly and I have talked about it before and how important that you were in those Stanley Cups for those guys to win. So thanks for coming on with us. And uh we love you and we appreciate you. I love having the laughs with you. There's not been one time where you haven't shown up at an event to support something, and and that's amazing. So thank you, buddy. We appreciate you.

SPEAKER_05 59:35

Well, I appreciate you guys having me. Chaser, you know, you need anything, I'm there. Um with a bunch of other people. You need anything, uh, make sure you pick up the phone. Um, always a pleasure. Like I said, it's it's uh it's a really cool, it's a really cool to play in the NHL is obviously a privilege. Um but once you once you do it and you uh you meet the people you do and you have lifelong uh relationships and and you you win with some players, like I said, it's uh it's like you pick up uh you know a phone from uh uh four years ago, and it's it's easy like Sunday morning. So um it's great seeing you guys. And and uh again, I don't like doing these, but for you, Chaser, uh Holly, anything you need on there.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:23

Well, we appreciate it. We won't ask you again. I might. You will, I guarantee you will.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:33

I might. I'm not done with the stories. Yeah, right. Thanks, Keener. We appreciate it. All right, uh we're out. That's another edition of Ice Guardians.