BRIAN MCGRATTAN | Ice Guardians Ep 39

Brett Hull and guest host Tony Twist are hanging out this week with former NHL winger Brian McGrattan. Big Ern tells the guys about watching hockey and falling in love with the enforcers at an early age and how his abilities on the ice eventually led to him taking that path himself. Twister talks to Big Ern about some of the guys that shaped his career as he was coming up to the NHL. Grats talks about making an impression in the AHL during the lockout and Hully asks him how he learn to take a punch. Twister asks Big Ern about the line brawl between Vancouver and Calgary during Hockey Night in Canada and then brings up a center ice fight Grats got into in Toronto. Grats shares with Twister and Hully about his struggles with addiction and how he was able to ask for help and return to the NHL.

Ice Guardians, presented by Siteman Cancer Center, comes to you from the Window World Studios.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:33

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Ice Guardians from the Window World Studios brought to you by Seitman Cancer Center, Tony Twist, Ryan McGrattan. Welcome. Thanks for coming. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being had. Good Ontario boy. Yep. Not too far from me in Belleville. Hammertown. Right? Growing up.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Belleville, huh?

SPEAKER_07 1:02

Yeah, I was born in Belleville.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_07 1:05

Yeah. I wasn't there very long. Well, your dad had kicked me out early. Well, you your dad helped that. Yeah. Because I'm one of those outliers. You know, born in born in August. So had to get back to Chicago. Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:22

Tone? Yes, sir. I have got so many questions. So many questions. But we'll start at the beginning. Yeah. Because everybody says that a tough guy don't have talent. You, on the other hand, were able to finish your career like you wanted to, and that's for later. In in a in a European league where there was only three lines where you were controlling not two or three minutes of ice time, where you had to play 15 or 20.

SPEAKER_07 1:51

That's the end of your 15 or 20 minutes actually to get to work out during the game instead of after.

SPEAKER_06 1:58

I mean, that's amazing. It's crazy. And then at the beginning of your career, you were a 20-goal goals goal scorer in the O.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:07

So where in between did you find the role of beating the shit out of people? So um I I always loved it, right?

SPEAKER_03 2:17

Um, like even when even like growing up as a kid, like I didn't like fight, you're not really allowed to fight minor hockey. Um me and my buddies, we we loved the fighters. We had all the old VHS fight tapes, and we were obsessed with with um VHS, yeah, rock'em sock'em and stuff. All of that stuff, but we legit had two or three fight tapes that were I don't know how long they were an hour-long hour, whatever of just straight fights. And you know, I always loved the fighters. At what age? Um I would say all the way growing up, like nine, ten. Jeez, you love, right? So we all love like you know, the goal scores, like the Bradball, like the Mario Lemuse, the Isermans, the Sakics. But my favorite guys were always tough guys, too. You know, I like I love Bob Probert.

SPEAKER_06 3:09

How can you not?

SPEAKER_03 3:10

Like Bob Probert was arguably the biggest name of the enforcer in the you know late 80s to early 90s. Yeah, and uh, you know, we we were uh huge fight fans. Did I ever envision myself as being um being one? No, like that was um it wasn't in the cards at a young age, right? We were everybody wants to be the goal scorer or the you know the point guy and the star. I always had uh you know a uh physical and hunger for um being a physical player when I was younger. I was in a few years. I always had the end the inside plan A since I've been never watched it.

SPEAKER_06 3:56

So that was always plan A.

SPEAKER_03 3:59

I never had a plan B. I never had a plan B from A guy when I was fucking six years old, seven years old, there was no fucking plan B. There was no any plan. There was no plan that's amazing.

SPEAKER_06 4:09

So yeah, five or six, you that was plan A from the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

Plan A from the beginning. I wanted to be an NHL hockey. Were you always a big bitch? Yeah, I I was, but I was like skinny and lanky, and yeah, like I played two sports, like uh dual. I played lacrosse too. Um box or field, uh both. Nice, yeah. And I was I love lacrosse. What a what a fucking sport.

SPEAKER_07 4:31

Too much running for me. Box lacrosse.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

I like hockey, like I like I like the violence in it. Yeah, right. Yeah, it was great, you know what I mean. At a young age because you know, you start at you know, six, seven years old. By the time I got to the contact age and hockey, you're fucking murdering guys, right? Because you've been hitting for three, four years, you know how to take a hit, you know how to you know reverse hit, all the things, right? Look, you know, cross-check is not legal in hockey sometimes, but you got to give it sure. And you found yourself being a training. I tell you, I thought it was legal for everyone. Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:06

So I always got a yeah, that was a protection device for you.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

You know, the the physical part of the game and being in the game physically and hitting and being a physical player, I think has always been ingrained in. Um, you know, growing up in you know, minor hockey and minor sports, I was always the top goal scorer and top point guy. So um, you know, growing up in our area, I left the Hamilton. I grew up in Hamilton, I grew up left the Hamilton system when I was like 14 to go play in Toronto to give myself a better opportunity to go. With the minors at 14? I went to the Wexford Raiders.

SPEAKER_06 5:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

Um, you know, there's it's arguably the hockey mecca of the world, and you know, at the time and still is the best minor system in in maybe the world.

SPEAKER_07 5:51

It's gotta be.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

And uh, you know, I had an opportunity to go play Bannham there and and uh kind of my journey started of you know getting an underage pick to the OHL.

SPEAKER_07 6:03

How long uh were you in Wexford quite there?

SPEAKER_03 6:05

One year. One year we had actually on that team, you know, this is pretty rare for a Bannham team. We have five guys who played NHL games off there. That's yeah, so we that's impressive. You know, there's a handful of guys that uh played in the OHL and the other guys uh went to play to school. Yeah, we had a pretty good team. Yeah, so um still that that enforcer type part was was not there. And uh I I played uh an underage year. I played five years a junior, actually. I had uh I had uh a bad knee injury at 19, but that that knee injury and you were playing tier one at that point at 19. Yeah, so I was playing in the OHL and uh I was a fourth round draft pick to the LA Kings, you know, kind of you would say maybe my draft or my path was drafted as a power forward as a 20 goal scorer, 30-point guy. Um, you know, I I I fought, but I didn't fight. I wouldn't, it wasn't you know a full-time role. And if I fought a guy, it would maybe be a midway because I was a big guy, but I was like lighter, a little bit, a little bit intimidated, not filled out, a little bit intimidated, not really knowing how to do it. But I like love the physical aspect of the game of hitting and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_07 7:28

And if you're gonna do that, someone's gonna get of course, and then and then you know how it is.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

You see a guy that's 6'4, right? It doesn't matter who the fuck he is. I you know, later on in my career, I see a guy at 6'4, I'm like always get a fighter or no fighter, right? And um, you know, throughout my my junior career, it was a it was a it was a bit of an up and down junior career. I I uh you know, I got traded a bunch of times. I um was having a a standout season. Like when I was 19 years old, I had 20 goals in 30 games, the first 30 games to start the season, and then I completely blew my knee out ACL, MCL, meniscus, the whole thing, missed the rest of the year into the next year, and you know, the kings said they're not gonna sign me because of the impact this could have on my skating, my it was a really bad injury, right? So I went back, had a very subpar um overage year, and then um legit that next September uh Peter Shirelli was the assistant GM at the time of the Ottawa Senators, and it was right at the beginning of September he called me. He's like, We got one more spot left on our rookie camp.

SPEAKER_06 8:39

Uh most of the time you had to earn that, right? There was nothing given.

SPEAKER_03 8:43

I didn't earn it, nothing, man. And um and you were given pass. So I got I got a it was basically uh it was the last shot for me to maybe play hockey again, right? I didn't have any, you know, education wasn't really my thing, so I didn't really have the any of the Canadian university offers, right? I'm 2019 or 20 years old, but to turn 21. And that's a decision I made to become a uh fighter. I'm like, I'm going to this camp here, and I I have to do something to stand out. I gotta do something to stand out here. I'm six foot four, 215 pounds or 220 pounds at the time. And I went into that tournament and I fought every single game. I can't remember this long time, 25, 26 years ago now. I don't know how well I did, you know, I probably won a couple, but I fought like every game, sometimes twice a game. And um, you know, fortunately enough, I I I was playing on like the third, not the fourth line at camp, but like the third line had a couple goals. And um kind of that's where the path started for me. And you saw the importance of that role because it was at a time where the role was an important role still on the value role uh going into the Ottawa Senators organization. At the time, as you guys both know, in those early 2000s, they had very soft teams. They had very, very soft teams, and it was you know pretty blatant when they would play the leagues together at least two, three years in a row in the playoffs. Uh so the path was pretty glaring path for me to take to get on this senators, and uh, you know, fought my way through that exhibition or sorry, that rookie tournament and earned my spot. Uh and that was at a time when I was with the LA Kings, the rookies got to go to the training camp. But when I was at this first training camp with the Senators, the rookies had to make a training camp. They just weren't invited. And um I got I was one of the guys that got as a last the last minute roster fill-in two weeks prior, I got invited to main camp. Yeah, main camp. And uh didn't last too long. I was there a week, but I made it. And um over the course of that you know, week or 10 days, three guys on the on the big team got hurt. So obviously, three guys from the guys that were gonna be in Binghamton had to stay up. And that was over the course of like two or three weeks in training camp. You know, there were guys, as you know, there's some factoring guys that pull stuff or they're they're not really fit, or you know, a guy gets whacked in training or in an exhibition game. So over the course of the NHL training camp and the Binghamton training camp, there were guys that were kind of going up and down from Binghamton to go fill spots for Ottawa, but it gave me a chance to do the the Binghamton training camp in the exhibition games. I fought every game. I fought every game, and uh you know, John Paddock was my coach at the time, he was my coach the entire three years that was in Binghamton. He's not afraid, yeah. So I had a coach that loved that too, right? Yeah, and I was and I was really standing out, and and you guys know the importance of when a guy's going and doing that, he's starting to become beloved by your teammates. Not kidding. I had a old school coach that that loved fighters and fighting.

SPEAKER_06 12:09

And um and who had your job in the National Hockey League at this point?

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Who was finding that or was he going to be even done? As in like a true heavyweight position, there was nobody on the sense. Chris Neal. But but Neiler, Neiler, Neiler, Neiler's tough as tough as nails. But Neiler, Neiler was like, yeah, he's you know, Neiler played played over a thousand games there of a guy that was a very, you know, yes, heavyweights are important pieces of the lineup, but sometimes we play half the games of the year. Yep. Sometimes we play 30. Might, you know, the guys might play 50, 60. Neiler played every game. Nealer was a very important, sometimes four, third line piece. Did he bring the intimidation of a true heavyweight, a guy that's six foot four, 245 pounds? No, but he'll fucking fight you every second shift. Yeah, not he didn't care.

SPEAKER_07 12:57

And I learned over my career that those are the guys that you guys didn't want to fight. Because if if you lose to him, it's like there's a no-win situation.

SPEAKER_03 13:07

Yes, a no-win situation. Yes, they had a guy that didn't and that would stick up for his teammates and be committed to doing it, but as a true intimidating, uh heavyweight character was not, but I needed to take my because first of all, I didn't really know what the fuck I was doing. And like to be honest, like it's a big jump, as you guys know. Like you go from the junior level to either the East Coast or the American League, and it's a big adjustment of fighting guys that are 27, 28 years old. You know, a lot of the heavyweights at the time in the American League had a cup of tea in the NHL or were NHL 100 games, 150 games that were up and down guys. And um, you know, I got my ass kicked for two years, man. I I really did. I it was it was holy shit. But I I I you know I I I found it such a learning experience too. Of you know, I wasn't scared to do it, but I wasn't I wasn't really that good, and I was getting my fucking ass kicked all the time, right? Did you not like seek out a boxing gym or something or some other guy that's what was lead, yeah, but but what I'm leading into is I I I played with a very important uh veteran, a very important person, I would say, in my entire life, especially my early uh playing my pro career. We were just talking about Dennis Bonby. So Dennis Bonby arguably I would say NHL American League is one of the toughest. I I don't grade fighting on wins and losses, I grade fighting on fucking showing up and having the fucking balls to do it. And Dennis Bonby is right up there with I would say the toughest guys to play this game of the era that I came up with. So I feel I felt very blessed at the time to have a veteran like that where I would go into whatever I I got I got dropped, I got one punched in uh in Hershey one night by Jeff Paul. So I was uh my rookie or you know, and that was back in the day, no concussion protocol, no nothing, right? So I'll fucking get knocked out, right? Because if the fucking trainer comes, he's kind of waking me up. I shake, I'm like Bambi getting off the ice and go to the bench, and you get the cold water on the neck, the sniffers. The coach is like, You got my guy need one more shift here, right? And uh, you know, Dennis was was um the way he could teach and the way he taught me, he taught me so many things over two years that I I became so good because of him. And he knew you were gonna take his job. And and and knowing that I was gonna be the guy to take his job. Right, because I was I was the 21-year-old, he was the 30-year-old, right? And uh a lot of the techniques and a lot of the you know, the mental mindset of winning, losing how to study your fights, all that stuff. I I used my entire career. Um and I became the heavyweight fighter I was throughout my entire playing career because of Dan's mom. I I would I'm I'm being very honest with you, I would have never played in the NHL if I never played. That is awesome to hear. That's the impact he had on that's the impact that he had on my on my career and my life as a young player, because you know, the veterans fighting or not, could be a goalscorer, could be a penalty killer, a third line. The the the effect a veteran player can have on a young 19 or 20-year-old could be so valuable, both both ways, right? So, you know, and those are the days of you know, the American League has really changed now with you know how young it is. But you know, um I broke into uh you know, I came into a time in the early 2000s where we had shit, I think we had four or five guys over 30. You would not have that now in the American League, right? It's a very the dynamic has really changed a lot into a development league. But you know, coming into a team that had you know four or five guys over 30 years old that were were great veterans, right? I played a Dean Melanson and Brad Smith and um you know Dennis Bonvi, these guys are awesome, man. And I saw Brad Smith a couple last week at our at our Ottawa Senators alumni tournament. So I felt very grateful of the veteran group that we had for you know, even a second year guy, you third year guy used to lean on long-term veterans. So over the course of my early playing career in Binghamton, I felt um, you know, the veterans had had a had an impact on my career.

SPEAKER_06 17:57

That testament to one man, you don't ever hear no more. You don't. No, when I when I broke into ling, there was a lot of older guys that you know they were pissed off that you were coming in.

SPEAKER_07 18:13

You know, it wasn't like, hey, you know, come over for dinner.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

It's like, hey, come over for dinner, you're taking my first line of first BP spot. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_06 18:20

And that and so that's on your level, right? Where goal scorers were not exchanging tips or there was no friendly face. You tell me to take my job. And even when when you know Chase and I came up through the through the ranks in the in the late 80s, nobody else was sharing that. It was just me and him. Yeah, so to have a guy that you never knew take you under the wing and give you the X and O's, he could just he could just as soon as skipped you the wrong way. Yeah, you don't hear it no more.

SPEAKER_03 18:48

So or or not even help you, right?

SPEAKER_06 18:51

Like I or not even pull you aside. That's right. I mean, it's just kudos for you for recognition and but more to Dennis for doing it for you. Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_07 18:58

Like you gotta feel fortunate that like you and Chase were not you like knew each other. Yeah, and so that even is a better situation.

SPEAKER_04 19:08

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SPEAKER_03 22:30

So you had the 0405 lockout, right? So going into this year, obviously I was going into a contract year as my third year pro. Dennis was no longer with us. He was in Hershey. He got traded to Hershey. So all the eyes in the hockey world were gonna be the most likely. And there were so many first round picks. We had nine of us that made Ottawa that year, right? So each team had four or five, six NHL caliber players in the American League. So I felt like if I was ultra crazy this year, um the Ottawa centers are gonna have no choice but to take to take me. I think I had 44 or 45 fights and I set an American League record for 551 pims, right? So I I think I kind of overdid it in one year, in one year, but you know, I had even though I fought a lot in my first and second year pro, like I had like 25 fights my first year at 35, my second year this year I had like 44 or 45. And you know, I was never one that was big on wins and losses because if you're gonna fight a guy in a one-off, somebody can always get better. I was always a guy like I show up, and if I show up and I can prepare, and that's a lot of things that Dennis taught me. If I could fight, I can use my reach, and there's certain things a big guy can do. If I used all these certain techniques, if someone's gonna fucking beat me, I'd be me beat myself a mistake that I would make. But that year, I think like of a clear-cut loss, I think I only lost like four or five fights, right? So I turned into and I learned how to take a bunch of a big part of this role. But you gotta learn how to take there's some guys that are big, there's some guys that maybe might not lose that often. But I know if I could hit that motherfucker two or three times, I got them because I know I I've learned how to take them. And and and that year really taught me. I it it really um propelled me into the NHL because I learned how to take a punch. I can take as long as you don't knock me out, I can take them and come back, right? There's some there's some spots here, here, you're gonna go down.

SPEAKER_07 24:56

Novice question here like, what do you do? Just like run into street poles? How do you learn what to take a pun? Well, well, I am from I am from Hamilton, Ontario.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

We're we're we're born tough and we're born of a different.

SPEAKER_07 25:09

Well, I realize that we're running into how do you learn to take a putt?

SPEAKER_03 25:13

I just learned over the years of of of taking them, and sometimes when you take a hard one, it's like ah, you're yeah, because I watched some of those fight reels like like you were talking about, and I'm like like the the guy, just you can you can see that it was just I can tell you how the guy doesn't even he did it too.

SPEAKER_06 25:34

I can tell you how you learn it. It comes with repetition, not repetition of being hit. Okay, it comes with repetition of fighting that same guy in your head 200 times before you ever see him hit the ice. Any conceivable process that could happen during that fight, you've already done it in your head. So with the opportunity where something goes blank, and it may or may not, you have already gone to the lowest form of training, which is very much up here now, because whether you're conscious or not, or in that moment, as long as the legs don't buckle, the hammer's still going. Because you are falling upon what your instincts are. And your instinct is to stay up and keep throwing. But if you're not mentally doing that in your head on a daily basis for every fight, meaning you underestimate somebody, overestimate somebody, you've already lost a fight. But the the steady repetition of watching that guy on VHS, watching him in your mind fight him 200, 300 times, any conceivable process that could ever happen, you've already done it. So when when the lights go out, as long as the legs are still on forneither, uh, you're still going. And when the legs come back, you're right back at like you never left off. It's like, oh, I woke up back at it. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 26:43

And that's that's I want to follow up on that. That's the course of learning, you know, the role on a preparation standpoint. It's like, you know, over the years, the mental side became so important, more important than the 100%. And you know, if I was gonna play Tony Twist on Friday night, my preparation starting on Wednesday mentally, right? I'm fighting Tony Twist in the mirror when I'm brushing my fucking teeth in the morning. I'm everywhere I go, I'm seeing him. Right. So like he said, by the time I'm squaring off, I am so loose. I feel like I'm there's 20,000 people going outside of my preparation and how skilled I got at preparation. I was so loose. I was so calm and I was ready to fucking piece of property, a property piece of it. And uh, like he said, like I as as long as I don't catch one in certain places, you get knocked out. Like, oh I'm I'm in it for the long haul. And um, you know, but the the preparation and the mental side of that um it became such a uh an advantage for me. And it wasn't just showing up at the rank, okay, I'm gonna fight so-and-so tonight. And you know, it it it became um obviously it was my job, it was my passion, it was my love. It became a a weapon.

SPEAKER_06 28:15

You never fought angry.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

Never fought angry. I always fought. Uh every guy I fought, um, I always had the utmost respect for. Um, I I never ever showed a guy up. There's a couple times where I sullied, like a couple times. Um, right, but um this one?

unknown 28:33

No.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

I did this, I did the salute. So I did the salute in Calgary, right? Um you know, I played for the Flames for a year. I absolutely love playing in Calgary. Unfortunately, I didn't I didn't re-sign there. And uh over the course of the next couple years, I was in a couple different organizations. I was at the Anna Arcadocks, Boston Burrows, I was in Anna Nashville, that's where I met Toots for uh about a year and a half, and I got traded back to um Calgary. And it just like you know how you have those teams that you just never liked? I I have never liked the fucking Vancouver cadets. I have never liked them every time I have played against many, so I I have just never liked that team. I've never liked it. And the first game back, playing in a Flames jersey, I were playing Vancouver and and um they had Tom Sastid on the team um and uh we we just couldn't get matched up the first period, right? So I took a run at one of the sedines and I knew I knew right away the coach, right? So um put him out and it was a good fight, and uh ended up getting the edge on him. But um it was right by our bench, and I stood up and and and the whole side, like that grandstand, they're all standing and going out. So I'm like, shit, I should probably do something. It was just a spur-of-the-moment thing. I just went like that, right? And it became a like an iconic thing of the year in the moment. There's a couple pictures, a lot of fans still um recognize me for that to this day. But um, and I would say another um part of my strengths as a fighter was the humility part of it, of having the utmost respect for every single guy that I fought. Um, I always treated them, and it didn't matter if it was uh middleweight, heavyweight, I always treated them like they were the toughest guy in the world.

SPEAKER_06 30:38

Probably a good way to look at it, right? So yeah. Um no pedestals for anybody. No, no, no. And you're certainly not standing on one on yourself to look down.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

Yeah, so um and I'd be I would say that was one of my strengths as a uh um heavyweight enforcer because when you can I didn't I didn't have to walk around um like I was the top guy all the time because if you're the fucking top guy, you don't need to say I don't need to say a fuck, right?

SPEAKER_07 31:07

Right and I always even when I was a young rookie climbing my way up, I always carried myself like I was the fucking but don't you think yeah that the majority of guys who did your jobs felt that way about the other guys?

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Or do you think you were you were uh I I don't know. Yeah, I I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 31:31

There was a lot of arrogance, I think, in some. Well, there definitely was. There was a lot of arrogance. No, no, don't misunderstand. You have to have a certain amount of arrogance, of course. And and don't have to show it. You don't have to show it, and you also have to temper that with humility. That you humility means you're not bowing, but you're certainly not giving anybody a pedestal over top of you.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

I just think it's the upmore. I just think you know humility, you can put humility slash respect.

SPEAKER_06 31:55

Respect, and that's what I'm saying. Yeah, you must temper that, and and that's important. I'm not fawning over you, I'm not gonna give you any show too much respect. I'm not gonna show you no verbal, nor am I gonna show you anything on the ice. No, but when the fight's over, the fight's over. I'm not gonna upstand, grandstand, or downstand.

SPEAKER_07 32:10

Well, I've said for decades now that I think it's the most honorable thing in sports, is when two grown men drop the gloves. You know, and if someone steps on a stick, no one goes down and keeps punching them. You know, it's like okay, it's over. Not everybody was like that, though.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Well, there's a but most guys were and and the skilled guys and the top of the lineup guys, the 50 goal scores, the you know, I think it was a very mid-misunderstood role for people on the outside seeing us do what we did. Right, but there's there's things in the game that get messed. There's dirty plays, they're right, yeah, right? That people don't probably guys knew like if they touched fucking Bret Hall, Tony Twist was coming to crush their floor.

SPEAKER_07 32:58

Yeah, but you were allowed to hit me. It's just you couldn't take advantage.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

No, you couldn't take there was no the cheap shots, no one the ref turns his back and cross-chuck to the back that had the stick to the back, right? Right? The the dirty slashes in the plays. The hard parts of the game, like we're all grown men. Yeah, Brad Hall can take a bump from somebody, right? But it's the dirty play, it's the knee-to-knee, it's the you know, that stuff never happened when we were on the bench because if it did, it's a full green light to go murder that.

SPEAKER_06 33:25

Well, you were involved in one of the greatest brawls of the era, where you there was a brawl that you know was pretty it was pretty unique. And I was sure there was a couple of them, but uh, you know, I'm sure you know the one I'm talking about. And that's premised on what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Yeah, give us. Yeah, so is it the Vancouver one? Yes, yes, yeah. So the the we had a uh a a line brawl to start the game with, yeah, and it was and it's a great opener too. It was a great opener, it was it was great. Um, you know, we were I think on an eight or nine game losing streak in Calgary, and uh fourth line. We had we had three points the night before, and and do you really think hold on, do you really think you're being put on the on that to start the game because you had three points, or no, so I so so so is that we tied three points a torturella as you punching? Yeah, the whole story. So we get to Vancouver, the little coaching room, and and and in the back of the room there, and Bob Hartley calls us in. And uh he's like, none of those guys deserve to start the game tonight in that room, right there. He's like, you guys come to practice every day, you work hard, you know, you see the training after the commitment. Kevin Westgarth was on the other line, right? So another you know, heavyweight guy. So they knew the commitment that the guys had. And you know, he's like, You guys show up every day, you don't bitch, you play one shift, you don't say anything. I play you 10 minutes, you don't say anything. You know, you guys consistently come and work. You had a good night in San Jose the other night. I'm gonna start. Well, it leaves the roomable because I close the door, I'm like, fuck it, perfect boys. I'm like, who cares if we lose 10? Let's go out there and kick these, let's kick their ass tonight. And uh we went through who we're gonna fight. Like, I'm gonna I go, I'm gonna fight Sestido Westy. They they called up some big kid from the miners. He was like 6'5 or 6'6, right? So I go, Westy, you're gonna fight him and Blair Jones. Um, fought Dale Wees. Bieska was on the ice. I forget who the other D were. I mean, tough little yeah, and we we grew up playing together. Like he's from he's from Grimsby. I've grown, we grew up our whole kind of our whole lives playing together on summer teams and spring teams and all that stuff. So I've known him my whole life, right? And we get out in the in the the uh and it's hockey day in Canada, right? So you had a couple cupcake games. You had you had you had the I think it was the Leafs and Canadians was a no-hitter, and it was like the Jets and and Sens was like, you know, I forget the other, but they were like very no action in those games, nothing, right? And then we were the night slot, and um getting ready for this game, we're on the no on the face-off, and I'm I'm 15 feet away from I'm not even on the on the red line, right? I'm 15 feet away from from Sistido with my hands, were on the ends of my fingertips. Kevin Westgar said the draw, he's holding a stick like he like like he's holding like a golf cup, but he he wasn't even getting down like a center like this, he was just kind of sitting like this, and then Biaska. The the ref didn't know what to do. The biasca was coming in and out, then they dropped the puck, and it was just and uh uh it was it was good. We had we had a couple good fights, right? So it went on for a length of time, it went on for a length of time, but because my I saw I planned this whole thing, right? I'm the orchestrator, this whole brawl. And because my gloves hit the ice first, I'm the first fight, so everybody else got kicked out of the game. And um, the torts part that's coming up, this this was not part of the the plan, right? Right, this was this was not part of the plan, yeah, and uh so the period ends, and and Shane O'Brien's in front of me, and the coaches go in, and Torts is not a big guy, and I'm pretty tall on skates. I still feel this nudge try and get on the inside and go in the room, and it's Torts, and he is absolutely losing his. I'm gonna fucking kill you, Bob. You're dead. I'm like screaming at him. So I stiff armed him out the room into the hallway, and all the other coaches were there. Um, you know, everybody's screaming and Torrents is yelling. This is right by the dressing room, right? Right by the dressing room, and you know, the the camera was on the roof because it was hockey night can't so if the camera wasn't on the roof, it would never have been caught. But there are some thoughts going through my head of you know, maybe I should just fucking drop them, right? So, like, because you do have as a fighter, these thoughts come into your head, right? So I was like, and and I held off because I was like, you know, there has to be a camera somewhere. Yeah, you and that would have been true. And I'm like, you know, I can't, you know, I was having all these conflicting thoughts in my head, right? I can't drop a fucking coach in the hallway, all this thing. So at the end of the day, I I didn't do it. But that that that part of of the hallway thing, that that was what really god. And um, but that that hallway scene really blew up how the brawl was. I think I I think torts was livid the way he was, because if he put the sedines out and all that, we would have done the same thing. I I have never touched it, I would never ever lay my even I would even lay a finger on a guy like that. That that that that that takes away everything I've done the last 15 years of my life. But even like a guy like that of a Hall of Fame caliber type player and to go and jump a guy like that, just takes away everything I've done the last 15 years. We would just went and pumped your guys in the fourth line the next fucking shift.

SPEAKER_07 39:29

Okay, I wonder like, was he really trying to get it, Bob?

SPEAKER_03 39:32

Oh, he I think I think if he got by me, I think if he got by me, I think I think he would have got him. Do you think you who would have won, you think? I I think Tor Torts was hungry, but oh, he was hungry.

SPEAKER_07 39:45

He was funny, he was I'm still trying to figure out how you guys ended up in the same tunnel.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

So somebody had to make a tour. So Torz, so so actually a couple years later, right? I was working in player development with the flames, and the development guys get to go on some of the exhibition games on the road, right? So I got to go on the trip with the uh with the flames to Vancouver, and we went for pregame skate. After the pregame skate, the flames are all there. There's nobody on the Vancouver side. So I I was thinking in my head, I'm like, fucking, how far is that bench? So I I walked over down the hallway to the bench. He might as soon as that whistle went at the end of the period, he must have hauled ass and full on. That's how how much he wanted to kill Bob, I think. He must have full-on sprint because I re I I re-en I re I what did the walk to see actually how far it would be for him to come. Oh, he if he he was hungry, I think he was hungry to get Bob, and that's that's how fast he ran over there.

SPEAKER_07 40:49

Unreal.

SPEAKER_03 40:50

But in saying that, um, I've always been a a a torturella fan, man. Like of he's never had conversation with you. I've never, I've other than the the the little dust up in the hallway there. That's the only time I've ever met him. But you know, of of friends of mine that have played for him have all loved him. Um, and then he you see what he's doing right now. Um I I I think I I would have loved to have played for him at some point in my career. I I I really think I would have.

SPEAKER_07 41:19

I I have moments where I agree with that, and then I've just heard too many stories about what happens behind the closed door. And I don't, I just don't, those aren't my kind of see. I loved playing for Brian Sutter. You know, he was tough, but boy, just as honest as the day is long. And he tried to teach you like a father, yeah, as opposed to belittling.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

And I think Daryl and and Brent are a lot of the same. I had Daryl and Brent in Calgary, and yeah, they're they come across as hard ass, and yeah. Well, all that stuff, but at the end, uh they they they are, but they're honest. But behind closed doors, Daryl Sutter is one of the most fucking beautiful people I've ever been around in my life.

SPEAKER_07 42:06

Tony will attest to Brian, they say the same way.

SPEAKER_03 42:08

Hey, lad, you know, you know, but but on the ice and the way they coach and the way like they demand a certain, yeah, they demand a certain way to be played. And if you don't fit in that, you're gonna have a tough time with them.

SPEAKER_07 42:21

But I I think Brian Sutter hurt more of our players than the other team did. And it was when you were doing good. Like I'd score a goal, come back to the bench, and he'd punch me right in the kidneys. Way to go! Yeah, no, but punch you, yeah, not tapping. Yeah. Oh Lord. All right, we're gonna take a break and we'll be right back from the Window World Studios, sponsored by Seitman Cancer Center, Tony Twist, Brian McGratt.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

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SPEAKER_07 43:33

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SPEAKER_05 44:02

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SPEAKER_07 44:07

You're right, Chaser.

SPEAKER_05 44:09

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SPEAKER_07 44:36

Score big at Hippos Dispensaries with locations in Chesterfield, Columbia, and Springfield. Daily deals to keep your wallet in the game, top cannabis brands you know and trust, and bud tenders who feel like teammates. Hippos, your home rink for cannabis in Missouri. Welcome back to the Window World Studios, Cancer Excitement Cancer Center. Tony Twist, Brian McGrattan.

SPEAKER_06 45:05

Grats. Gotta ask you the question. There was a fight, one in particular fight with an individual. I'm not sure he was, but really put you on the map.

SPEAKER_03 45:16

Yeah. Yeah. So again, my my rookie year at the Sens, I was, I think it was in the first 10 games of the year. And this fight was I would say maybe my coming-to fight in the NHL, the fight that maybe solidified me as a a serious young heavyweight coming into the league. You know, I I grew up a I've been a lifelong Leaf fan. Like I told you guys before, I've been a fight fan my whole life. Ty was one of I would say our me and my buddies, one of our favorite fighters. And uh, you know, one of my favorite players on the on the Leafs. Like it was Wendell Clark, Doug Gilmore, and Ty Domey were my all-time favorite Leafs. Right. Yeah, lot of people's, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. Especially Wendell Clark, the fucking best. And uh, you know, um this particular game, and and we killed the Leafs every game that year. So we we played them eight times, we beat them eight times, and they missed the playoffs by one point. But of the eight times we beat them, we murdered them at like five of the games. And this game was one. I think we beat them eight or nine-one. And um, you know, in the first period, like we got up two or three goals right away. Usually it's the other way around. Like, you know, the team lets down, the guy's gonna, you know. So I lined up with Ty, I asked him to fight, and uh, he said no, and out of respect, I'm not gonna chase you around and say, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go. There's there's other ways, yeah, right? There's other ways. So I started running around a little bit, and then I took like a 20-foot run at Matt Sundine. And that's kind of how you get the guy to come to you, and um, and then the next shift we were out together, I actually took a like a pretty good run at Ty, too. And you're all here about fuck you, right? So the turnaround, and then we squared off Sunrise in uh in Toronto, but going back to the preparation part um and not just showing up and fighting. I knew how I I've known how TI's fight for for 20 years. I know how he fights big guys and how he like for a guy of that size to fight guys that are six foot four to six foot six for for for the entirety of his career and do as well as he's done, it's because of the technique that he has. He likes to spin guys, he likes to get guys off balance, you know, he's a ducker and a shaker and all that stuff, right? So you know, leading up to that, I was practicing at practice with Chris Neal. Because I knew Ty was at smaller than me, wider, stronger, lower center gravity, all the things I knew at one point he was gonna try and get inside on me. And he did right away, and he tied me up. But what I was practicing at practice leading up to this was certain ways on how to get out of these grabs. And one was, and you would know because you've probably done it, of we had a bit bigger jerseys back then, slipping my arm out of my jersey. So I was practicing that leading up to this because if he got inside on me, there's gonna be certain ways I can get out of my jersey. Tied me up, I couldn't really do anything, and it it was like almost perfect at what I was practicing. Came out right right arm right out of my jersey and like right right on the right on the butt and and dropped tie right in front of their bench. Um you know, tie went off and went right. I kind of just put my head down, kind of went to because again, the showboarding stuff and all that, especially of a guy like uh ties or you know say of an all-time great. Um, I didn't really think about it at the time, but this was a a big moment of the shift wouldn't be in the Battle of Ontario, you would say, of where the Leafs would have the upper hand physically. Of I I would say over the course of a couple years, really embarrassed the Senators of you know, fighting and kind of kicking their ass with all the guys, Darcy, Tucker, Travis, Green, B-Lak, Ty Dolan. You can just go down the list of the guys, and they had would just run around and do whatever the Sens played scared, all that thing. This was a solidifying moment of the franchise. Nobody's gonna fuck around with the Ottawa Senators anymore. And you know, dropping tie at center ice um really changed the dynamic of what that battle of Ontario was gonna look like for the foreseeable future with us. You know, as a young guy, I've really been thinking about it. I'm like, oh the box, I'm thinking in my head, holy fuck, I just dropped high gnomia, right? And like I'm growing up and in Toronto, you know, as uh as a kid growing up and you know, being a fan of whatever, like a like a diehard Leaf fan. My goal was hey, I want to, I would, I want to play one game for the Leafs or play one game against the Leafs in Toronto. And if I could ever do that, my dreams have been made. Now I just dropped uh an all-time legend, center ice, and um, you know, get back to to Ottawa. And I was like the king of the town for like for a while because of that. I was still living at the hotel. I was one of the guys that was on the bubble of the team um back in the day. I don't know what it's like now. We had our little mail slots, and I had the letter in my stall to get my own apartment the next morning after that.

SPEAKER_06 50:51

So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 50:52

Um, and then um, I wouldn't say put a target on my back because I already have my targets laid out for the month, like on my calendar. Okay, George The Rock is here, Donald Brashier's here, there but so you know, right? I guess I would say it'd be more my my coming to fight of of a new heavyweight coming into the league and you know beating an all-time great.

SPEAKER_06 51:13

Yeah, and received well, yeah. I mean, in Toronto, no better place than to set precedent, yeah, for sure. And yeah, uh because there's no media in Toronto, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 51:23

Oh I've seen a lot of highlights of Ty Domey, they don't seem to ever show that one, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:28

Yeah, and uh funny, isn't it?

SPEAKER_06 51:31

Yeah, you can find it, but you gotta research it.

SPEAKER_03 51:33

Yeah, you gotta put in yeah McGrattan versus Domey. And uh, you know, I I think one of the things, and and I see Ty, you know, every once every couple years, and I would consider Ty a friend these days. Um and I and I think what's allowed for that friendship to happen of the no stupid stuff after I didn't put him down, I didn't do the embarrassing that serves no purpose the belt stuff. Well, and he's one of the ringleaders of doing that. Yeah, so they chirp him after I didn't do anything that. So I think uh, you know, I'm I'm really glad because in the heat of the moment, when everything's you're all fired up, right? Emotions tend to take over, and you can do something that would take away from that. So I'm glad. Well, you didn't do it for a reason, though. I I I'm glad I just kind of put my head down, went to the box. I was very humble, just very humble in the in the media after, and I'm glad none of my emotions have actually dropping all time. Budget didn't take over, and I didn't embarrass them or embarrass myself. That was your training though.

SPEAKER_06 52:37

That was because your training upstairs, you'd fought it, you'd fought them two at a time prior to even hit it. And never part, never part of were you were you getting beat, all right? Every fight you won in your head, but never once did you closed it there. You didn't go what I'm gonna do after. Again, not getting lost in emotion. Anytime you fight with the motion, you've already lost the fight.

SPEAKER_03 52:58

It's clinical, yeah. It can get ugly too, right? It's clinical.

SPEAKER_06 53:01

Every fight is clinical. If it's not clinical from the beginning, you're not going to do your job properly. It isn't, it's operations. That's why you do it in your head so many times. And I've and I've said it before, it's the lowest form of training. Your lowest form of training is what you engage in when you when you're called to battle. If your lowest form is up here, this is where you perform. If your lowest is down here, it's where you're going to perform. The more you repeat it, the more you do it, whether upstairs and on the ice, that becomes ingrained. And that becomes part of the respect factor, and it's received a lot better. You know, did you have any intimidation? Did you have any routines to intimidate the other side prior to the game even starting? Did you try to get in other people's heads prior to the game starting? And let me let me uh help you with that. Um, was there anything that you did before the game or during uh warm-up or during pregame skate that would allow yourself the space for the other team to see you and go, okay, you know, to put plant a seed of guess who's here? And you know, you're gonna go to sleep this afternoon with me in your head. Yeah. Have you done any of that? You know, I was never a chirper. No, it's not about chirping.

SPEAKER_03 54:18

I think about sounds saying, yeah, like I was never so I was never a chirper. So that part, yeah, never, no sounds. But but for for the majority of my young career, I was six foot four, 235 pounds of the fucking blonde mohawk, and I had a look on my fucking face like I was gonna rip your soul out of your body, right? So there would be you know, there was guys shooting the box. I I like to warm up the head, but I I I patrolled the red line and I would just kind of look around and because the eyes don't lie, eh? And and you know, like we're talking about preparation part of I've I've been preparing three days or four days for this guy. I could tell in some guys' faces in their eyes. I fucking had those guys in a warm-up, man. Oh, immediately. I had them in warm-up because you see them peeking down, like you know, it's number 16 out there. They're like, look, you can see them keep looking, looking. I'm like, I'm like, he's fucking dead 10 minutes into this first.

SPEAKER_06 55:10

That's getting inside somebody's head, and I and I love that. So I love that, yeah, because there's very few guys I believe in.

SPEAKER_03 55:17

So I can see like the peeking down and the looking, I can tell by the facial stuff. I've gotcha. And sleep well. The mohawk and all that stuff looked awesome too. I love, I loved all that stuff too. Good for you.

SPEAKER_06 55:30

Yeah, because the game, the the fight can be won or lost before it even starts if you get inside somebody's head. Yeah, I enjoyed getting into Mr. T workout right before during pregame work pregame skate. Get in there and do a Mr. T workout, you know, sweaty and hot, wear the tight there, wear the tight shorts, no shirt on. I'm like, who the fuck? Do I need to take my skin? I take my with the big tiger too. My stick once every two weeks because I never fucking never touched it. So I'd be out on the bench, you know, just looking tiny, you know, taping the stick, and just long enough with the look to see who's looking. And if they and if I'm not getting any looks from anybody, especially the other side's the the other side's uh muscle, I'm thinking, all right, you know, but at least I put myself in there, put a thought in the back of your head. And I've been in Toronto, I did one step one step further. I stood in their bench, drink their water, taping my stick in Toronto while they were sitting. They were pre-game steep. I'm on their bench, drinking their water, looking at their coach with their coach right here pointing for drinking their water, looking at every guy to see if anybody I don't know, that worked.

SPEAKER_03 56:41

Then Hollywood and pumped in three that maybe.

SPEAKER_07 56:44

I love it. All right, we're gonna take another break from the Window World Studios, brought to you by Seitman's Cancer Center. We'll be back. Now it's time for our get checked moment of the game. And today we're talking about breast cancer. And if you're a gentleman watching, please tell your wives, girlfriends, friends, daughters, sisters, aunts, and even your mother-in-law. Gals watching, listen in closely to this. If you're 40 or older and haven't yet gotten your manogram, it is so important that you do. Women who undergo regular yearly screening for breast cancer have better outcomes than women who don't. If you have family history of breast cancer, there is a chance you will need to start getting screened even earlier. And that's something to talk to your primary care physician about. Seitman Cancer Centers offer a mobile mammography van that parks at convenient places like Schnooks and Walmart all over town so you can get screened on your way to run errands. Check out the van schedule and make an appointment on Siteman's website, seitman.washu.edu or type in your zip code at get screenednow.com. If you're in Missouri or Illinois, to find multiple locations near you to get screened.

SPEAKER_05 58:05

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SPEAKER_06 59:33

Yes, sir. Tale of two wolves. Yeah. The tail of two wolves. And on that to shorten it up, the you got one wolf here that's has all the it has the all the meanness, the worthlessness, the the aggression, the just all the bad things. And you got the one here that's charismatic, it's it's it's great, it treats its family well. And which one do you feed? Well, you gotta feed them both because this guy here is gonna keep you in business. This guy here is gonna keep your head in play. What happens when you're feeding them both and one starts overtaking the other? And I see that being a uh a prevalent part of our community, that being of the enforcer where alcohol or or painkillers or any other substance becomes a crutch. And I know that at some point in your career that had become a prevalent part that you had to do battle with.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:24

Yeah, and I would say, I would say the escape became the crutch, right? And whatever the whatever that escape may be. And, you know, alcohol and drugs was that was that safe place for me. That was that escape. It was a place where I can disappear without the pressure, the pain, the injuries, you know, how I felt about myself, the relationship I I had with myself. It was an escape through all that. And, you know, um alcohol and drugs provide such a false sense of pride. Um kind of everything is basically an illusion of what they can provide you of being able to bury all these things and put them in a place and not worry about it. But those at the end of the day, they don't go anywhere. And you know, you still have to face Was that always part of your career? What's uh was drug job all part of the career? Uh yeah, it was uh you know, I've uh at a young, I wouldn't say at a young age, but you know, I was a very shy kid, a very shy boy, um, even moving away at home to go play junior at a young age of you know, when I when I discovered these things, you know, you feel a little bit different, right? Alcohol and and drugs. Like I said, uh they were a safe place for me, a place where there was no judgment, there was no uh pressure, there was no pain. All these had a very rocky relationship with myself for a large portion of my life, right? And and most of us do uh that are are struggling or in the dark. And um you know, the battle was on both ends for me. I felt like I was fighting all day of my fucking life, right? And you know, I I transitioned into this role into a heavyweight enforcer. I'm fighting three, four days a week. I'm I'm fighting at home. I'm I'm like as in, you know, battling of of substance abuse. Um, you know, um the you know, we always no no fighter or or NHL enforcer or even we never want to admit like there was a fear part of but at the end of the day, there always is of some sort. And um drugs and alcohol erased that to what year?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:59

To what year did you figure that it was no longer gonna be a fix?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:02

And you know, I was 28 years old, 20 to 70, 2008, so I was 27. Um, I just couldn't do another day of putting myself through the the ringer anymore. I didn't even know who the fuck I was at 27. So far gone.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:27

Where were you?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:28

What did what did you I was playing for the Phoenix Coyotes at the time. Um you know, a typical run for me was like a five-day five-day battery fight. That's during the fight of the fucking who's who beat them or when, right? It's like I've been up for a couple days already, right? And and you know, the same old cycle of negative cycle of you know, extremely lost spiritually, emotionally. Um like I said, I I as a I I didn't even know what my identity was as a human. I'm living at the pinnacle of my career, every dream of my life since I've been a young boy. Uh went away from the rink. I was dying every day. I was a shell of a human. And um, you know, I was I was dying. I was dying, and you know, I was just living in a lot of fear and a lot of pain. And you know, I was just scared to say anything.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:35

I was scared of being a bubble player, didn't want to say nothing.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:38

Bubble player, like career stuff. I was scared. I was scared of you know, what are people gonna think of me? Like are they gonna think, you know, I'm a fucking loser and all this stuff because it's like you know, uh pro athletes are you know, you're supposed to be indestructible, right? We're like these superhero type figures that we don't have any problems in. And uh, you know, of all of all the negative things that I thought about myself and all that stuff, I I I just couldn't do another day. I couldn't do another day. And I think if I did another day, I don't think I'd be sitting here right now, to be honest. That that's how far gone I was. And uh you know, I made the the choice. What day was that? December 4th, 2008. And uh you know, I I called my mom and asked for help.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:27

And it was it was all on your own. Oh you yourself told yourself enough is enough.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:35

You know, we can all say that we have these higher power or divine intervention of that was a that was a defining moment of my life of I'm not I'm not a religious person, I'm not um you know, I I I I believe I've learned spirituality over the last decade and a half. I've I've I've been on this path. And uh there was that little flickering light went on for I would say probably the first time in my life. I was at a fork in a road. And uh light popped on. And uh I I believe I I said the three hardest words that anybody can say is you know, I need help.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:22

Who did you say that to when you were able to get there?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:25

I called my mom. Yeah. Yeah. So And what is what would mom say? I mean, I just Yeah, it's like obviously there's she's you know, and yeah, I was in Phoenix or in fucking Hamilton, right? And uh um it was all love, man. And uh obviously being mid-season, I had to go through the appropriate treatment league channels after that, right? So there's a couple of the doctors, PA, NHL, PA, those guys actually flew down to see me, went to treatment mid mid-season, and just kind of started that path. I didn't, I I I I was believed, I was so far gone, man. I I I had no ambition to come back and play hockey anytime soon. Like I really needed to wow figure out who Brian McGrath was at this time. I I so you know, I went to treatment center in Vancouver, uh Vancouver Island, and um I was gone for three months. Came back, was in a sober living home. There's like 10 games of the season left or 15 games of the season left. And I met with Don Maloney at the time who was a GM. He couldn't believe how good I looked, right? And I said, I I I I I said I would like to see if I can come back and play. I said, I don't even care if I go down to the East Coast League, I just want to see if I can come back and do it. And I uh went down on like a 10-day conditioning stint, got called right back up to three months without wheels, 10 days, three months, and I have never honestly never felt so good, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:58

And it's like you were out for three months without wheels, you spent 10 days.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:01

Man, I went down for 10 days and and you know, I had I had all the feels again, like when I was a kid, like you know, you walk into the rink and like you can smell the ice, yeah how it all right, so gross equipment of all the were like triggering me in such a happy, like a happy way. I felt like a fucking kid again going into the rink and and and getting on the ice, these practices. I I never felt that good in so long. And uh like legit jumped in and played like two games. I think I played three or four games with the San Antonio Rampage over the course of that time. Got a call from the Phoenix Coyotes to come back and and and finish the year, and uh and it was great, other than the fact that you know, I I again like uh my my rookie year had okay, 10 games left who were the who might fight, right? So like six guys that I wanted to fight these 10 games wanted to a contract year in treatment or not. If I have fucking six fights in 10 games, yeah, someone's gonna get it and you must have been a little scared because you've mapped up to this point.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:03

So now the alcohol driving.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:05

So this was the the the I would say the where I was at mentally of can I be as good as crazy, all this stuff uh without the substance substances in my life, and and I became better at the last half of my career. Fuck I was I good. I I was good, I was prepared, I was like so mentally clear. Um like I had no emotion like going into these fights, like um they it felt like I was home for me. You know, there's 20,000 people going crazy, and it's like I'm in the quietest, most relaxed place. And um, you know, going back to these these couple fights coming out of treatment, there were they were a very big test for me. Um the first fight uh back, I fought Jody Shelley. Um did did very well. And Jody Shelley's a fighter that I have respected my my entire career as a guy that any guy that can play six, seven, eight hundred games in that role, most respect. Right. So, you know, I had the opportunity to fight Jody Shelley, and it was a really good fight uh in Phoenix. Uh four or five days later, Anaheim's coming to town, George Perros. George Perros and I broke into the league at the same time. I've known George were both drafted to LA at the same time. So I've known George for and and George was George a punishing fighter, no. Was George a very smart fighter? Yes. Did George lose a lot? No. Like, but he was he he he was you know an established, I would say, intelligent smart fighter, but I'm assuming he was was studying the way I was fighting, and you know, really used my jab, my reach, all that stuff. And the way he blocked the punch I threw, he must have been stuck in fights, right? So he blocked a punch. I completely blew my shoulder out, right? So my shoulder popped out the back. I went down to one knee, and as like guys like us, I was like, fuck, I'm trying to pop it back in so we like come up with an uppercut, right? Goddamn shoulder wouldn't pop back in, and I'm I'm fucking dying. And anyways, go get all the MRIs done. I broke 30% of my socket. Um, I had to get, you know, an extensive bone. Uh, they took bone from my collarbone, put it in my shoulder. But this was the very first test of not falling back to my old ways of I just had a very big setback. Now I don't have the escape anymore. Now I don't have the kind of the pour me and the escape, and I'm gonna go drown myself in alcohol and drugs for the next three days and just forget about this. Meanwhile, it won't never go away, right? Type thing. And you know, all the stuff I've I learned going to treatment, all this stuff I really learned about myself, and you know, you learn about self-love and all that stuff. So so where I was at emotionally and spiritually uh really helped me through this time. So obviously, I get this surgery done. The first thing I get prescribed was like a thing like this of like oxies right now. Right. So we get home, and my mom came down from Toronto, and we get home, and I said, Can you do me a favor and just go dump all those painkillers in the fucking toilet right now? And they were obviously very high. Like I just had I didn't have a ligament done, I didn't have a scope done. I just got a new bone with two screws put into my shoulder. And um, she went and dumped them, and I took over the counter. I don't even know why I took them over the counter at Advil and Tylenol for that extensive surgery. I I legit cried myself to sleep for two weeks, but it was the most gratifying pain that I've ever because I've never let myself feel pain before in that, right? So it was like strength, right? So it was like the most gratifying pain I've ever felt. Like, and and I got through that very challenging um part and early sobriety that could have been a setback in so many levels. And uh, you know, so I go to treatment and then I I have this very significant bad injury a month out of treatment. Never even heard of that injury, right? And uh going into free agency and one team calls, and because it's a Calgary Flames and fucking Daryl Sutter. Like Daryl Sutter is is has been such a an amazing person in in my life, and um the opportunity that 99% of guys in my position wouldn't have got if a guy like Daryl Sutter didn't have the outlook on forcers and guys like us, like as humans, and really respected the fact that of the journey I just took the last year and and where I was, and he's had a handful of players in his coaching career and playing days that were guys that went and got sober and and saw what it was like on the other side when they and the importance that they had. And and he gave me he gave me a shot to to restart my career with the that's with the Calgary Flames, and that's why like you know, the Flames organization, the city of Calgary Calgary is that's why it's so dear to be, it's always so dear to me, and always gonna be my place, my home, because of the opportunity that they gave a guy that had an extremely um hard um you know path over the last handful of years. Um, you know, was very public. Um when I went to treatment, it was all over the new mid-season, all that stuff, and you know, had a very significant injury, played five games that year, and Daryl Sutter signed me to a one-way contract. Revived my entire career. That's amazing. Uh they're great people. So congratulations. Yeah. So that's kind of the early days of it. You know, where I'm at now is, you know, I've I have an 11-year-old boy. Um, you know, my my ex-wife now, Michelle, is um where she's still a very important person in my life. The way uh we're we're able to uh parent Gabe and and and what we're able to give him um has has been so special because of all the things I've been learning about myself over this 18-year journey since that day. Um, you know, I've become a massive yogi. And I do I do a lot of yoga.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:05

You I can imagine you walking into a yoga studio.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:08

I know, like like six, five, four dots, but but over the last three or four years, I have gotten so into it, and it has taught me a lot of things of you know mindset, inner peace, um, you know, moving meditation, the places I can go on a yoga class, you know, no therapist or any kind of daughter or anything like that has ever been able to get to these places in internally and uh obviously physically what it's done for me with all the injuries I've had. Um, so that's been uh kind of my safe place and my place of healing is through that practice.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:49

And you have used your experiences to help others, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:54

I have, and uh which is a testament, you know, coming out on the other side and still being in the league and being part of the league, and you know, Jordan Tutu's here today, uh a year and a half after uh I made that decision. Toots went to treatment, and we were on Nashville Predators together. I got I got picked up off waivers um during training camp. And when uh my agent was talking to David Poyle, half of the reason they were bringing me in was because I've been clean for a year and a half. Jordan Tutu, who has been a big part of the face of that franchise, like he was arguably the face of the chance. Yes, for sure, right? Yes. Um, and they felt like it was such a necessity to have us both together. And we've we've we've had a 15 year very special friendship because of that. And and from though that year in Nashville, you know, the the message that Toots and I have have been able to get out um, you know, through our platform being NHL players of you know, yes, helping the general public because we've come we've got become public with our stories. And you know, I was never one that loved the fame of being an NHL player because I'm like that's you know pop up on TV. I I can start using my my NHL platform to help people now. I can I can use my NHL platform on CBC, TSM, whatever interviews I have to really help people because there could be someone listening to this right now that is really struggling and they see Toots' message before me, they see mine now, and they can make that call and ask for help. But not really knowing that we can have such an impact on our NHL community. You know, and then there's guys like Nate Thompson and you know there's a handful of guys throughout the rest of our playing days that man, we we we really created a community, and I think we knocked down a couple doors um that made it easier for guys to come out and um share their story, or if they were struggling, go to their NHL teams because they saw guys like Jordan Tutu and Brian McGratt and going through the league process and coming back and having an impact on their communities. They weren't, you know, they weren't like barred from their team or kept. They weren't just sent away, right? They saw us coming back to the organization with open arms and seeing the impact we're having on our teammates' communities. And now, if you see where um how mental health is viewed, not only in hockey, but in and and and professional sport, it's it's viewed with such a different lens. And um can it is there always room? There's always room for improvement. Can it get better? Of course it can get better. But if you see where it's at now compared to it was obviously when you guys in the era you were in, the early days where I was at, the early days um when I went um and got clean, see where it is now. There's teams like I worked in with the Calgary Flames in a position that was an off, you know. Yes, half my role was in player development, but also half of my role was an off-ice role of being around and being available and um teaching our young prospects about the importance of off-ice decisions, people you're hanging out with. You know, if you're struggling, you know, here's the options for you, here's the avenues you can go. And and and and being there for them. I really took a lot of of pride having that role. Now you're seeing other teams that have it and other pro teams. So you know, the the views on mental health are um are are in a good place in our game. And and um it's it's very nice to see that there's a safe space for players to go to if they are struggling. And and throughout an IHL season, you're seeing two or three guys a year saying, you know, so-and-so has um entered the lead program and and shit. You see them back in the lineup five, six months later, right? And it's like, you know, the support networks that the teams have and are great for these guys, the loving arms you come back into from your teammates and and stuff like that. So, you know, I would say having a a small part in that and then uh a story that went out 17, 18 years ago that may have helped some other guys um come forward and reach out and and ask for help because there's some guys that haven't, and there's some guys that aren't here with us right now, right? Very you know, there's the other side of it too. Yep. And it's not just hockey players, you're some of our friends and colleagues and guys that we've played against and with that aren't here right now, right? And that's the other that's the very scary side and the very eye-opening side of where some of this can take you, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:21:49

So you help knock a wall down, yeah. Seriously, yeah, absolutely help knock a wall down.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:54

Yeah, something you should be very proud of. Yeah, yeah. So it's it's great. And uh, you know, I get to be around my my son Gabe. We get to be around him all the time. We get to have a you know positive impact on his life, and yeah, and one of the biggest positives you shot a ball at him, really hard roadball to make sure he didn't play goal. Oh, yeah, it was uh we got that out of the way. So we were shooting pox in the backyard or or the orange, the orange pox and orange balls. When Gabe was five, six years old, right? Hey, game, you go get the balls in the net and have one on my sticky turn around, I rip one, I hit him right in the middle of the thigh on the ground. I'm like, You want to be a goalie? No, got that problem out of the way.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:37

Uh so, but uh yeah, and just I should have done that to my son. He ended up trying to be a goalie five foot nine, and your job is a lot harder than mine. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for being here. Big man, thank you so much. Well entertaining and taking care of people, and uh, you know, it's like your buddy Jordan said you know, to be a good person is probably the most important thing, of course. So yeah, thank you. And we've got you guys here, both of you. Love you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Until next time, from the Window World Studios brought to you by Semic Cancer Center. This is Ice Guardian.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:22

Look up Lodomi McGrath.