Intentional Parenting at Mariners Church
There are a lot of voices telling us how to raise our kids well, but the best parents aren’t perfect—they’re intentional. The Intentional Parenting Podcast is for parents who want their homes to be centered on Jesus and His Word. Join us for encouraging conversations with experts and everyday parents, inspiring teaching, and more as we become more confident as parents.
Intentional Parenting at Mariners Church
Prepare for Launch: Elementary
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Project: Launch continues! Today we begin a series of conversations with parents of the 3 main age groups, elementary, middle and high school. First up, elementary kids with Chaz and Heatherly De Naranjo. Launching a young adult well into the world begins with a solid foundation laid in the elementary years. Enjoy this practical and inspirational conversation.
Welcome back to Intentional Parenting at Mariner's Church. My name is Jared. I got my wife Kim with us again today. We are really excited about sitting down with Chaz and Heatherly as we talk about launching our kids well into the world. So, Chaz and Heatherly, thank you guys so much for joining us. Thanks for being on the podcast. Um, let's, as we just jump in, first of all, thank you for the ways you guys already serve our church in kids' ministry as shepherding elders, like really caring for so many people in such meaningful ways. And I'm really appreciative of it. Just before we started recording, you guys were talking about even just some of the COVID memories of getting to serve our church and kids' ministry and things. And so I'm I'm grateful for the longevity, for the investment, as you're both having a you know a great marriage and you're trying to raise kids. And here you are also, I'm sure you have jobs and all those other things too. So thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_03Oh, it's our pleasure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, thanks for having us. We're we're excited to get the invite. I'm like, there are a lot of people you could have invited, but you chose us. That's true.
SPEAKER_00Highly recommended. Mom Co was a part of the recommendation as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I have a lot of history with that. There's a whole network of people that are talking about you guys.
SPEAKER_02So we're Momco or MOPS. I was it was MOPS when I was saying now I feel really old because someone started talking about Momco and I was like, what's Momco?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, it's rough. It's rough to make that transition. It's like you age yourself immediately when you talk about mops.
SPEAKER_00I do appreciate it though, because acronyms I get lost all the time. I uh mothers of preschoolers. Right. So you have to explain it. And then I even said it with a big question mark at the end there. Momco, I kind of get it. Although I don't know what the co is.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no.
SPEAKER_00It feels almost like an MLM. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But either way, it sounds great.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00No, it is great. It is great. Why don't you just give us a sense of your family, your home, and like what's something happening right now in your house that's just good for us to hear as parents?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no. So uh family-wise, so we have three children uh in various uh age groups, but right now we have uh two in elementary school, one in our middle school. So we have two girls and a boy that are our almost 13-year-old, our 10-year-old, and our seven-year-old who just turned seven today. So happy birthday, Hawthorne. Um and it's a great time right now. Um we love uh you know being together. We love being at church. Um and we'll talk about a little more about it later, right? Um but we love to serve together. So um that's kind of how we we position ourselves and how we enjoy being a family.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we're in a really fun stage. I say that people kind of bury the lead on how fun parenting is when you hit this phase. I miss I miss them as baby and toddler, but I don't miss being in that phase myself. Like I would do anything to have them squishable again. Yep. But I don't want to live that time again. Where elementary and middle school, this is so much fun. And right now, what's happening in our house is we're doing a lot of sibling relationship um uh dynamics, which is that is fun and interesting. And our biggest conversation is trying to teach them that your sibling success is your success. And even as adults, um, you can move far away from your siblings, you can even stay super close to your siblings, but no matter what, if they're having a tough time, it affects everybody. So we're trying to kind of instill in them that the dynamics you create here, the encouragement you give your siblings, the patterns, um, the different things that you can build up in them, like it's gonna help you in the long run. Not just them, but you too. So that's a big thing with us right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. And then part of that is giving them actual examples, like whether it's my family or her family, where we're engaging, like, hey, you saw this thing happen last week, you know, and kind of walking them through it. I'm like, to mom's point, you know, your sibling success is your success, right? And you see how that plays out. So giving them that long view, you want your siblings' success, right? Right now you might be angry and fighting with each other. I'm like, but in the long run, you want to build that relationship and that connection so you guys can all flourish together, right? Because eventually mom and dad will be here. It'll just be you three.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So yeah, a lot of trash talking in the minivan that we can't have. You know it's trouble. You know how like you turn around in the minivan, like maybe not the minivan, SUV, whatever it is that you drive. Um, when I turn around and point, that's when I mean business. And I feel like I've been doing that a lot lately and encouraging how they speak to one another to turn around and point like that one.
SPEAKER_00So I resonate a lot with that. I think um I I love the age of our kids now. I loved what they were prior to this. Yeah. I look at photos of those early days and I miss it, but I don't want it.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Does that feel right? Yeah, I know. Whenever people say they have like the the baby itcher, and I'm like, no, I'd never have that because I didn't like baby stage with our kids. But then when you see pictures, you're like, oh my gosh, look at them here. But then I'm like, no, but I don't want to go back there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00No, it's kind of nostalgic for what it was. And I I like it because we get to we get to live appreciative of what we got to experience with those ages and actually these children. And yet I think Heatherly, what you said is so right. It's so fun.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Being a parent is awesome. And it can be the I mean, like, you know, Asher, you know, is almost almost 15 years old. It's my excuse to go to a World Cup game next week. It's my excuse to go to baseball games throughout the year. Like you just find what your kid's excited about.
SPEAKER_02And it's my excuse to take Ellie shopping, right?
SPEAKER_00Oh, no, no, no, no. No. 100%.
SPEAKER_03It's just a right of passage. 100%. Mom and daughter shopping. There's there's this great line in one of Indiana Jones films that we say a lot where um Sean Connery and Harrison Ford are talking, and he says this line, he said, You moved out just when you were getting interesting. And I feel that. Like the kids are getting more interesting and more fun, and I'm like, don't go. But also, like, we want you to move to that next phase. But right now, they're interesting and they're fun.
SPEAKER_00That's a great quote. I didn't expect an Indiana Jones quote today. That's good.
SPEAKER_03Always. There's always somehow, somewhere, we can bring in Indiana Jones.
SPEAKER_00That's so funny. Our our kind of mainstays tend to be Christmas movies. Like we we will quote Home Alone and Elf and all these other things all the time. But that's a really that's a really good one. And I hear that. They are they become people with great personalities, and you get to learn new things about them. And it's so fun.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so as you guys are thinking about your kids, right? So 12, 10, and 7, there is a foundation being laid now. And this is the first of a series of three conversations regarding elementary will be this one, and then there'll be a middle school and a high school interview or whatever this is, a podcast episode. And the the design is to mirror what we talked about at our last in-person intentional parenting gathering. It's all about launch. It's all about knowing someday they're gonna leave, they are gonna go off into the world, and we're hoping, of course, as every parent does, for a successful launch where they know who they are, they are established in what they're gonna do for their life, they have values and they know how to practice those things, maybe even a desire for faith, right? Wouldn't all that be amazing? So as we think about elementary, I think it's really important that parents realize that you have to start this young. That doesn't mean, by the way, if your kids are older that it's not too late. You you probably have done more than you realize. And I think that's what I'd love to kind of draw out with you is just what are we building in the elementary years that become the foundation for what will be, Lord willing, a successful launch. So as you think about your three kids, maybe you have unique words for each of them, but what are some of those characteristics or attributes that you're like, this is who I want my kids to be when they eventually leave our house?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Uh I would say a big component is uh their faith, right? In the context of their belief in Jesus Christ. So for us, we remind them daily like your faith and your walk is yours alone, right? You're not borrowing mom's faith or dad's faith. They look a little different, but we all have the same goal. So I as they are growing, that reinforcement of I want you to be a person who believes, right? Are you walking the faith? Um if you're cornered alone and something comes, you know, that may be hard. Are you processing it because you have this strong foundation? So I just like above all, above all else, we want them to have that core. This is my belief in Christ.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And the words we kind of thought about was um uh wisdom, uh, competency, and courage. And the courage one is there's this great C.S. Lewis quote that talks about how every virtue at its testing point is courage. So we can give them all these great virtues, but if they don't have the courage to be able to push back against something, um then all these virtues are kind of for naught. And so that's a big thing, especially building kids in this environment where in a time of dragons you raise dragon slayers. Um that's a kind of a line that's been going around. And so we want them to have that courage. We want them to have more, not so much competency, but you had a better word for it. Capable capable. Capable. Because you're you said it was um uh why capable over competency?
SPEAKER_01Capable is more of an action, right? You're always in the process of doing and learning versus competent feels like a more static phrase. Capable allows for growth and flexibility.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I to play with that a little bit. I think competency is the demonstration of some skills that you may have in order to do whatever the thing is. Yeah. Capable feels like I can I can react and flow, I can, I can um develop still. Right, there's an action side to it. I think it's really it's good. Those are great words.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, a level of adaptability. And so we have the main ones that we really want for our kids. However, um, Chaz and I, we prayed for like an extra one, like God, like if you give us these main ones, could you have this one just as frosting? We would like our kids to be funny.
SPEAKER_01And he did not and he did not disappoint.
SPEAKER_03So sometimes it bites you. Um but like we prayed like, God, can they be funny? Can they at least entertain us at some point in time? It's so awesome. It's it's a double-edged sword, though.
SPEAKER_02That's great. Our daughter just signed up for an elective uh in middle school to do improv. All right, let's see how this guy's I love that.
SPEAKER_00I'm not sure she knows what she's standing up for, but I am so here for it. I did, I I was on an improv team for two years in college.
SPEAKER_03No way.
SPEAKER_00She's going into sixth grade. She's gonna be hilarious if we can start this now.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah. Groundlings, here we come.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. You got it. Those are great, those are great words though. It sounds like these are words that you've had for a while or recently have been kind of honing in on them.
SPEAKER_01No, so it's been a while. So uh essentially, like even when we were dating, actually, we got together and we discussed like what are the core of who we are, right? And who our family wants to be in the future. Wow. And so this kind of just flowed out of it naturally. Um That's cool. So I think with us keeping that foundation and us reminding each other, like, oh yeah, these were our core, what we wanted to see of them, right? That's great. And again, all all the kids are different, right? They are books, not journals, right? So reading each one and having that kind of uh those words fit, you know, has kind of been, you know, the process of what we're doing right now.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they're all different. And I love that line, books not journals. I actually heard it when I was in Mops slash momco. I guess where they come a certain way. Like we want to kind of write sometimes who our children are, and then God's like, surprise, I made them a certain way, come with certain characteristics, with certain desires, or certain traits. And we've kind of said it between ourselves, if we don't read this book well, we have failed as parents. Um, because if we're raising them to be who we think they should be, then we're not raising them to be the best version of themselves, which is not just kind of in a like a like a hype, like, oh, the best version of me, but in the sense of like, what did God create you to be as opposed to me? And so even kind of helping them differentiate between what we do and what they do and our giftings and their giftings. And I think that's why I love being at this church and having them be in environments where they're around other adult Christians who are not like us, but living out the same faith. And so they can find things similar in these other Christians that they won't find in us that may inform how they want to live. Even at this young age, they're watching people in the kids' ministry, they're watching people as they volunteer, they're even watching their peers. And so having someone not us pour into them, we really value that.
SPEAKER_00My gosh, that's so good. So, in this age group, one of the unique things about elementary is the amount of things that the kids are learning from us by just picking it up. Right? We sort of become the models in which what we're hoping they learn. So, Heatherly, you you're making a great distinction here where we're not trying to raise future versions of ourselves. Like we're they are not us, they are their own independent, created by God. They are, but they are sharing DNA with us. So there is some unique, there's some like, you know, overlap there for sure. But they are learning from us. They're watching, they're seeing how we react, they're seeing what choices we make, what's important to us. So, do you have any examples? What's some stories of just where the kids have learned something from you by watching you, either good or bad? Bad's not the right word. You know what I mean.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. We'll say challenges.
SPEAKER_00Something you'll have to undo later, maybe some of my housekeeping habits.
SPEAKER_03Um, don't put it down, put it away. Okay. Um, where they're like, oh, we see mom put it down, therefore, we're gonna put it down. And so feeling the consequences. It's like if I trip over one more croc in the entryway and then I find out it's my croc. Um I don't I can't even be mad at them when there's a whole row of them. So and that's kind of more of a silly one. Um, but also they pick up what we say and even our cadence so clearly, for better and for worse. Um I had my seven-year-old open up a story with, so here's the thing. And that is very much an us kind of phrase. Um, but also some things that leave their mouth, um, like where I I would need to teach them to maybe mommy should complain a little less about some things. Um so just kind of uh you know, and like you said, it's it's caught, not taught, some of these. Um however, some of the more positive traits um they pick up from my better half, especially my son right now. That's you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, it's it's it's funny, right? Because again, going back to the the words. So I'm a product of the 90s, so all the words, right? So I have to backpedal sometimes when my daddy said this. That was not my intention. Please ignore everything you just heard. Right. Let's walk it back. Right.
SPEAKER_03Um nothing too too bad, but still enough where like, oof, like you know, that's a orange.
SPEAKER_01But as far as uh good traits, right? So my son right now, he's in that age where I'm trying to model to him what it's like to be, you know, a man, right? How do you treat you know your mom? So I'll do you know the car door opening, you know, walking on the outside of the street and kind of walking with him, saying, Hey, these are the reasons why we are doing this. Um and now he more does it on his own, which is fantastic, which is funny to see because he'll go, he'll open her door, he'll give him his or her his hand. Um, and he'll come to my door, mine, you know. Also, I'm like, well, well, thank you, Suna. Um we'll work on this, but yes.
SPEAKER_03It's very gallant. He even does the little hand thing where he lifts it up and like, my lady, like take my hand. Yes. I think we need to send Asher over there. I think so too. Yeah, Asher to give me a hug. I mean, it's it's a shoulder. He's like, the side, the the reluctant. It's the age. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04They come back around eventually.
SPEAKER_03Um and one of the other really cool ones is uh we don't force our children to volunteer. However, it's great to see our kids want to choose to volunteer. So I volunteer in kids ministry, he volunteers on safety, and both my daughters um wanted to help out in kids ministry. And like I said, we didn't push it on them. They have to go to church with us, but they do not have to volunteer. But both my daughters got involved in kids ministry, and to see them do that is meant on their own.
SPEAKER_02Now, what's the reasoning behind you not wanting to force them to volunteer in a certain area?
SPEAKER_03Aaron Ross Powell In the same reason how their books, not journals, where I want to give them the opportunities, but I want them to kind of pick where and when and how. Um, so there's not a level of I'm doing this because my mom forced me, not because I felt God calling me to it. We're even saying, pray about this and trying to teach them to listen to God, nudging them towards certain things. And it's harder for the 10-year-old and the seven-year-old to listen to God's voice. Um, but we explain, hey, what it talks about in the Bible, um, that's God's voice explicitly. You can hear it right away. And we have a line in our house where whenever they come to something, uh they come to us with a disagreement or something happens, I turn to them. And because I'm kind of lazy, I really boiled it down. I said, Are you loving God and are you loving others right now? But I also want to be careful that I don't want to use the Bible and scripture as like a tool to beat them with, if that makes sense. Like like hit them over the head with a scripture. But I want them to kind of understand and internalize it. So short question, long answer. That's good.
SPEAKER_00And if a kid just said, I don't want to serve, that's good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a good question. Um I think at that point, right, we ask, you know, well, why, right? And what's the heart behind it? Is do you just are you just lazy, you're tired, right? And we walked through that time. Um but I think the constant reminder of like again, this is your own faith. I mean, you don't have to do it, right? But it's you know, it's encouraged. And and nightly, right? We'll we'll I'll put the kids and our prayers always, you know, help us to find your purpose and help us to cultivate that purpose with you guys together. Um so I think them hearing that is like, oh, okay, maybe I am made for something a little more, right? Even if I don't know what it is now. Yeah, you know, get that prayer to watch over them.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and we use a line, you don't go to church, you belong to church. And so just kind of emphasizing to them that it's not just something that you attend, it's something you're part of.
SPEAKER_02You guys got a lot of good lines and quotes.
SPEAKER_03A couple, you know, bonats, um uh, no, it's excellent.
SPEAKER_00I I think I think that there there's a lot of beauty in what you're sharing. And uh even if you're one of your kids just said, I don't want to serve, like I don't want to do that. What you're modeling for them is that it is important to you. It's a clearly a value for your family. And I think what we have to mirror that with is that serving shouldn't feel like a chore. It shouldn't feel like something like, well, you guys don't even like it. You you feel like you have to go do it, or even just attending attending church shouldn't feel like this thing that is a nuisance to the weekend.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00No, it's like this is the place of worship for us, this is where we go as a family and it fills us up for whatever God wants to do for the rest of the week. So I think sometimes as people even listening, we feel as though, well, my kid just isn't into that. And I felt like that a little bit with with Asher for a minute there, where I just went, man, he's not really finding his team. You know, he tried the production team for a little bit, he tried music for a little bit, and it he never felt like he had to. Like it wasn't like this forced thing, but nothing seemed to really really fit. And then you know what's so fascinating is then in middle school, he chose the elective to be a uh peer assistance leader. So he was a big buddy at school, and all of a sudden you're like, dude, you're really good at that. Like he he enjoys it, he has so much fun with these kids. In fact, two of the kids go to church here, which is so funny. So he sees them every now and then. And then next week he's gonna be a guide for VBS. So that's awesome. You know, he it's like they find their way. You don't have to give up on them. You probably shouldn't give up on them. Yeah, but they find their way. Yeah, and I think it's because they eventually see, oh, this is what we do as a family. Right? This is a value set for us.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. And it's great that you're giving him that freedom to choose something because once again, we have ideas about what we think is best, but God has the ultimate idea about what's best for our kids. And it's outside sometimes what we're thinking about, and to kind of allow for that breath of opportunity, and like you said, we don't want it to feel like a chore or a burden, but we do want to teach them priorities, and that's something that we talk a little about. Um, priorities where church on the weekends, if there's something that keeps you from consistently going to church on the weekend, that something needs to stop.
SPEAKER_01And again, these are things too. They may be good things, right? But they become ultimate things. And so for us always modeling, right, consistently attending and being part of the body and enjoying, like you said. Um because there is joy in being with the body. So when they see dad and mom serve and with our peers, right, and we're having a good time and we're we're praying for each other, you know, at least they're getting that, they're seeing that and hopefully internalizing that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I I have found um, we have found the weekend's not quite as hard as Wednesday night is. As the kids get into middle school and high school, that's where I feel like there's more conflicts. There's more things. Yeah. Yeah. The pressure of everything to do everything, yeah. That's where the battleground really happens. Yeah. Are we gonna make Wednesday night a a requirement, a thing that is just like a an obvious this is what we do? It's tough. Yeah, it's it's a thing that unfortunately I think for a lot of parents, church is a nice to have and their youth group or youth, you know, life group or whatever, um, they could do without for a couple weeks. It's okay. But they can't they can't not study for that AP test, you know? Yeah. It's tough.
SPEAKER_03No, it is. And we um uh utilize something called the deathbed test. Sounds morbid, but it works for us. Chats, how about you explain what the deathbed test is? You make it sound less morbid.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So the deathbed test. Um so we tell the kids, um when you're on your deathbed at the end of your life, are you gonna be a real chipper? Yeah, are you are you gonna be sitting there or la laying there? Um asking yourself, oh, I wish I would have had, you know, more money, I wish I would have gone on more vacations, I wish I'd have accomplished more, I had more go or accolades. I'm like, no, you're gonna be looking around like who's here? You're like, here are my grandkids, my children. That is what matters. And you know, uh was it uh the Black Rhino, right? People are the wealth. For me, that informs a lot of how I interact with my kids and just those outside of me, right? People you can't replace people, right? You're dealing with eternal beings, so investing in them is of the utmost importance, right?
SPEAKER_03So yeah, you're not gonna be on your deathbed going, Oh, I wish I had, you know, one more purse, one more soccer match, one more billable hour. You're gonna be wishing that, like, hey, between me and God, I hope I've cultivated a relationship that'll just continue in a beautiful fashion.
SPEAKER_00That's great. My gosh. Um okay, so not to try to unpack all the science behind this idea of these brains that are being formed in our children, but you know, this this picture of elongated adolescence, I remember when I was doing youth ministry, which was at this point a long time ago now, they talked about how you know the prefrontal cortex is not really completely cemented until 25. Or so. But about 15 years ago, all these studies were starting to come out that adolescence was actually extending into the late 20s. Wow. And now it's past 30. Oh my gosh. Isn't this crazy? So now when you start to think about what does it mean to be an adult, it's not really happening for a lot of people generationally until they get into the 29 to 32 range.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_00Which is really a crazy, crazy thing when you can run for president, I think, at oh goodness. Right. So it's just kind of a wild idea. But for our kids, there was in in some of the reading that I did, they use this framework of the the home is the construction site that allows us to help construct and build what will be both the hard skills and the soft skills of our children. And so I'm I'm really curious. You've already said a few already here today, but what are some of those hard skills and soft skills? The hard skills are the things that they do, the things they're responsible for, the things that you go, this is your job now. And the soft skills are helping them, sibling, sibling relationships. Like those are soft skills, learning how to um manage conflict, repair if there's damage, uh, you know, emotional regulation, those those types of things. So go wherever you'd like, but I'm just curious, how's the construction site going in your home?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, it's going well, actually.
SPEAKER_03Um I mean, let's not get let's not let's go. It's going well enough. Thank you. Let's let's lower lower some expectations.
SPEAKER_01About two inches. There we go. There we go.
SPEAKER_00Otherwise, you my kids are moving to your house.
SPEAKER_01Perfect. Uh so uh one example of the hard skills. So when my eldest, when she was young, uh, I taught her to make coffee in the Keurig. So every morning she can make daddy coffee.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then each subsequent kid learned to make coffee. And so now our 10-year-old will come in on a Saturday morning, hey mommy and daddy, I made you coffee and toast and egg. And so here you go.
SPEAKER_03No, we've also graduated to lattes in the milk froth or can't get our kids to make their own breakfast.
SPEAKER_00What are you talking about, you guys?
SPEAKER_03Well, you know, I was saying earlier that to be honest, some of my laziness like actually pays off in my kids developing hard skills. You reach a day where you're like, I don't want to pack another lunch. I would love someone to bring me coffee in bed. I don't want to trip over another shoe. And like I said, I don't know if I'm lazier or I'm smart, but there comes a point where like I've had enough, you can figure this out. And so some of those hard skills were the ability to where our middle child she'll make breakfast. She also burns breakfast, but she makes breakfast. And she makes a pretty good matcha latte, I'm not gonna lie. Um, and where for our son, we got him one of those things that teach a kid how to fold laundry. It felt like a felt like a little bit of one of those silly Amazon purchases, but it has paid back in spades.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's like one of those boards, yeah. You lay the t-shirt down and play the sleeves.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean, not lazy people make them out of cardboard. I bought one and had it shipped to my house and gave it to my son. So things like that were like folding the laundry, then making the food, and we do something called a reset every day. Aaron Ross Powell Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Part of the reset is all right, anything that's yours, put it away, put it in the laundry where it needs to go, um, make the living space livable for all of us. And so around the house.
SPEAKER_03It's good. Yeah. It's your room and the shared space pick up all your stuff. Yeah. And we say it's time to do the reset. And then we have an additional chore. And the one thing is we're not super consistent on a child doing the same chore over and over again. Because to be honest, it's what I want done that day. I'm like, these dishes need to be put away. This laundry needs to be folded. So it's I think that this is my pro tip. Um, choose things that help you because then you'll be more consistent. Um or what's that chore you really hate? Turns out it's time for your elementary student to learn how to do it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I like this.
SPEAKER_03I mean, nothing like cleaning the gutters, like making water.
SPEAKER_02Our goal, we would say our goal this summer was they need to learn how to load the dishwasher. Oh yeah. Our daughter's good with laundry, but our son is not, which is funny because he's the older one. And I I literally told Jared, I was like, uh like I'll put the basket in his room and I guarantee he won't put it away. It's just gonna sit there and then he's just gonna pick stuff out and he's ready to wear.
SPEAKER_03He's like, Thanks, Mom.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00How clean are your kids' rooms? Like how much of a strickler? Because I like the livable space thing. Let's make it livable for all of us. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What about their space? So unfortunately, they're all in, or fortunately, they're all in one room. Okay. So it's they have to make sure and it's a it's a smallish space. I'm like, so it can't be messy, right? Otherwise you're tripping over things.
SPEAKER_00So they're the livable space becomes their own little ecosystem of they don't have full domain control.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yeah. You suffer the consequences if you leave something there because there's not a lot of space. And not only that, your siblings kind of keep you accountable where it's like having a roommate where you're all in there together. So if you leave something out, it affects everybody. And so there's a little bit of kind of regulation between them. Um, however, um, I don't want my kids to always feel a sense of nervousness, like I'm gonna bust the door open and say, What are you doing? Is your room clean? I want them to be able to relax and have that sense of like there's good and good enough. Um, but also we share space. Do you guys give allowances? No. That's what we want to do. We do not do that. Um uh we had like moments in the hot, hot sun where we try different tactics and we had, you know, you have the sticker charts. Sure. You have like kid Ramsey, um, like all the different things to try to go through. And then um uh at the end of the day, when they receive money gifts, we kind of let them manage that. Okay. And um, I have to watch my middle child make some very foolish spending things, and that's the one that hurts.
SPEAKER_00Totally. Oh, yeah, we've seen that. We we've watched our kids spend so much money on Pokemon cards, and then all of a sudden one of them's worth something, and then he sells it and he makes 10 times what we put into it. I'm like, no, that's not helpful.
SPEAKER_03Oh no, that's dangerous. They're like, wait a minute.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah. It starts to feel like an investment. And I'm like, all right, how do I use this?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's like elementary Bitcoin. I'm like, I don't understand it, but it somehow works.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Exactly. What's the on the hard skill side of things? What's the biggest domain area that you've given away to your kids? So they're they're making meals. What's the biggest thing?
SPEAKER_03Well, there's the biggest and then there's the most difficult.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_03And the most difficult is gonna be a little bit of a shocker. Um uh so Chaz, the we were talking about that one.
SPEAKER_01It's the uh Yeah, it's uh letting them wash their own hair. So we come from a long-haired family. Okay, and so our son is well, and like there comes a point like you have to wash your own hair and wash it well. So that was always a fight for us. We're like, I don't want to do this. It's always like going into battle. Um so when they were like, this is enough. You're old enough, you can wash your hair. Yeah. Um, and so we've we released them.
SPEAKER_03Little things like grooming like that, like you you can so in the realm of grooming, where like I said, that's probably not one for most people, but we were just tired. We were just tired of going in there and feeling like we're like using a hose and everybody was unhappy. It was just, it was rough. Once again, our laziness paid off. So there's that. And then also being consistent in some of the things with the hard skills. So that is an area for us having a level of consistency where you know every single day what you're supposed to do. I make them stand at the threshold of the door, I point to them all, um, because this is usually after a long day, and I say, Everyone tell me exactly what we're supposed to do when we get into the house. So consistency and then that hair washing part. Those are the hard skills.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Oh my gosh. These are great, you guys. They're so practical. They are challenging maybe a little bit to the Kirkwood side of the table over here because there's some great stuff that you're saying. And I also think, though, that you're not talking about the laziness thing you said several times, Heather Lee. And and I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. But in and I know you're not intending to actually characterize yourself as a lazy person. Little tongue-in-cheek. Yeah, clearly you're true. A little tongue-in-cheek. Yeah, you're you're clearly not referring to yourself as actually being as actually being lazy. But there is a framework that's out there. I cannot remember what it is actually called, but it talks about how the most effective people in the world are the ones who are very smart and a little lazy because you just don't want to do all the things. Yeah. You could, but you're just dangerous enough that you can delegate to the right people to get all the kinds of stuff done. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So work smarter, not harder.
SPEAKER_00You're in the camp. Okay, what about soft skills? What are those things beneath the surface that you're helping your children with right now?
SPEAKER_01And this is a good one. So uh for our son, so he's just turned seven, right? And for him, um he's got a lot of emotions. So for example, uh, our middle one may poke and prod at him and he won't like it, and he'll get frustrated really fast. So in those moments, uh we're trying to teach him to, you know, to verbalize those emotions. Like, what are you feeling? And then not only just verbalize them, but you can say them to your sister, hey sister, I didn't like that you said that. It made me feel this way. And so we're still walking through that process, but I see he's getting better at it. Uh the other day we're in the van again, and his sister token and prodding for no reason, like she likes to do sometimes. Um and he just started like, I don't like this. It makes me feel this way. And I'm like, okay, good. I'm like, I and we again we uh not applauded him, like, I'm glad you let her know how you feel because this is important. If you can do this now, it gets easier later on. So I know some adults who have a hard time realizing what they feel for sure.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Another one that um we talk about a lot is forgiveness. And so, yes, it's hard, it's hard for adults to forgive, but even for them to understand the transaction of forgiveness. So we kind of teach in the language. When you come to your sibling and you say, I'm sorry, if one of our kids says it's okay, I kind of stop them and say, if it was okay, you wouldn't have to apologize to begin with. And you're not really giving that transaction of forgiveness. You ask for forgiveness and the other person says, I forgive you. So even coming in and not trying to make light of that moment and teaching them the right verbiage for that, um, that's something that we're trying to walk them through and what it looks like to make an apology. And then at the end, this one's tricky because it's hard to sometimes even conceptualize this. We say, now you need to make it right. And then you need to ask your sibling, how can I make this right? Now sometimes the sibling gives some unreasonable demands on how they can make it right. So we may have to come in and measure that a little bit. But once again, the right words for it, how can you make it right? Because we're all in this together. We're all on the same ship. Their success is your success. We're all in this space together. And if we can't maintain this, like everybody's gonna feel it.
SPEAKER_02Right. And then that's good skills too for friendships, you know, not just their siblings, but how they're gonna handle friendships as well. For sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's a there's a vocabulary to to emotions, right? Learning how to help a child understand what they're feeling. You know, there's times where I can remember sitting down with either of my kids and trying to go, how do you think you made your sister feel or your brother feel? And they struggle with the language because you gotta go, how do you feel first? Like can you are can you pinpoint your own feeling? Because if you if you can't identify your own feeling, you're gonna be a little bit of a lost cause trying to figure out what you think somebody else might be able to feel. And that's transferable into so many parts of life.
SPEAKER_03100%. And even part of that sometimes is an exposure to stories or even like good books where they can see how a character behaves and what they say and what are the words they even use for that. So giving them kind of some of that language, even not just necessarily from us, but exposure to other things. And so that's one of the forgiveness is one of the hard skills, and also um uh for our middle child who is amazing and so brave and so courageous, but sometimes a little too brave. We're trying to teach her to read the room, and that's a big one. Where and her siblings are also trying to teach her to read the room.
SPEAKER_04How funny.
SPEAKER_03Um so just kind of walking her through that to be aware of everybody else there, not in the sense that you're afraid, but I'm not the only person in existence in this room. And so that's a soft skill we're trying to teach. So look around, see what the atmosphere is like, listen a little bit, try to kind of check in on people. You're not responsible for their emotions, but you are responsible for how you behave in these rooms and the words you say.
SPEAKER_00I think that's a that's a great example. Learning how to pay attention to what a dynamic is in a room, like what is the circumstance that's leading to whatever is going on interrelationally with people, to get a sense of that and then to be able to put yourself in the right role. What is my job here? Because you're not always responsible. It's not i unless you caused it, right? But it's kind of like, hey, how do I, how do I fit in in the midst of it? Man, that is a really that's a that's a complex, we're talking advanced level type stuff, being able to help a child learn and grow that stuff.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it is. Um and also when it goes wrong, it goes real wrong. And so you learn as a parent, like, wow, wow, wow, I should probably work on this. There's been a moment where um one of the kids got really injured and everyone, like my eldest was crying, my youngest was crying. I was almost like I was in a very kind of emotional, like, all right, let's bring this all together. And then the child that we're trying to teach, she walked up, she's like, Hey, can I go to the playground now? And I'm like, everybody's melting down. And she's like, Well, everybody's fine.
SPEAKER_00So we're just kind of I've assessed the situation, no one is dead.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we're good. No one's dead.
SPEAKER_00There's a playground down there.
SPEAKER_03No, and and part of it is she's amazingly resilient. So we don't want to completely take this from her because she bounces back so fast, she forgives so fast. But we need to kind of process stuff a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. That's a great way to find the positive in that. She's really resilient. Amazingly. It's amazing. And that is that's something affirmable and very it's worth celebrating. But also the speed to the speed to resilience made leave some people behind. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Exactly.
SPEAKER_00That is so good. Um, as you're thinking about the next age group that your kids are heading into, what is something that you're really looking forward to? And how are you preparing or planning for that? So high school is not far around the corner, right? A soon to be 13-year-old. Yes. Okay. So is that seventh grade or going into eighth grade? She is going into seventh grade. Going into seventh. Okay. Okay. How are you thinking about even planning? Let's just take her for example, as you're thinking about high school is not far from now.
unknownOh man.
SPEAKER_03Don't say that. Take it back. I want to take you there. Take it back. Let's go. Let's all do this.
SPEAKER_00Look, for us, it's like, okay, in theory, our son could get a driver's license next summer. And so we have people in our life that are like, are you ready for that? And we're like, it's so far away from now. Except we all know how fast every year, every year. Are you ready for it?
SPEAKER_02I mean, it's gonna be here before we know that. I'm not, I'm not complaining that it's like too far away. Yeah. Are you the primary driver?
SPEAKER_00I think the she is the primary driver.
SPEAKER_02Thinking about licenses and permits, even it's like it's a control thing for me. Like I'm learning how to let go, you know, because this is this is life. Like this is gonna happen. It's not not gonna happen. So I've got to learn to like, okay, Lord, they're in your hands. Just you know, because there's so many scary bits to it. But yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Which that's a soft skill for parents to learn how to let go, right? Yeah. And then there's the hard skills of actually learning how to be adequate in the car. So lots of stuff to learn. But as you guys are thinking about the future, what are you doing now to kind of prepare for it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think so. With our oldest, right? Uh just this past week, or this actually this week, uh, we gave her a little more flexibility. So she has a uh a smartwatch, right? And so she wanted to go to the the spectrum, yeah. Spectrum with her friend. And so this is the first time with her by herself and kind of letting her see what she does, right? And so um it went as well as you can imagine it went. So her watch died, she didn't contact us, and we were in a black hole. Fantastic. We couldn't get a hold of anyone, so we loved it. Both had to drive down there and uh find her.
SPEAKER_00So the 90s happened again. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03Where's a payphone? Yes, the one in hundred, like like mom come pick me up and yeah, and then not knowing what your phone numbers are, right?
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's like it's the real stuff.
SPEAKER_02That was the the other day we dropped our son off at an angels game and with his friends, and so they got to just go by themselves. Yeah. And I kept looking on Life 360 that his battery was dying on his phone, and I was like, Oh gosh, like it's his phone dies, and we can't find him afterwards. Um but the but then you think back to like when when they didn't have we didn't have cell phones when we were his age, you know?
SPEAKER_03Like, yeah, you had 35 cents, or once again you called collect and try to fill everything you needed them to know and that little bleep right there. How much we depend on technology. Yeah. And so we when we eventually found her, it kind of taught us where we had a gap in what we were training her for. We uh when we found her, we I was very proud of us, I'm not gonna lie. Um we didn't blow up. We kind of took her aside and we showed her, hey, it turns out you can charge your things at the Apple store if you're ever in a bind. Pro tip, everybody. Yeah. Um, think about that. No, just go in and they'll help you out. But just kind of like, this is what we want you to do when you're here. We want to have a check-in this amount of times. If this doesn't happen, um, utilize your friends. And also even telling her, like, I'm a grown woman, and if my phone's about to die, I text my husband. This isn't something that we're just doing this because we're trying to baby you. This is like a long-term skill for people knowing where you are and what you're doing, and even being aware of, hey, I can't contact you in this way, so I'm gonna do that. So we are trying to prepare her to be able to be in situations where she can kind of think critically about how do I get a hold of people, being able to manage the schedule of you pick me up here, you drop me off here, I'm with this person, here's their numbers. So giving her a greater level of autonomy, but also we have to be mindful that we're giving her um kind of a better lead up at times to her, where things kind of happen that you don't expect and we have to adapt in there. So we're trying to do that with her to give her that greater sense of freedom. And another thing for her is teaching her how to be assertive, um, assertive without being aggressive. Um, and conversations that she has with teachers and with other adults. And a line we use in our house is learning how to get your needs met. You can tell people what you want. They won't necessarily always give it to you, but you need to tell them what you want, otherwise, they're not gonna know what to do. And that goes for any relationship, for marriage, for friendship, for academics. So trying to kind of train her, and we'll do a little bit of like cheesy like role play, like, okay, pretend I'm that kid next to you who's giving you a hard time. Here's your script. What are you gonna say? Or what do you think would be the best thing to say? And so just kind of training her for those conversations and also um not following her on everything when it comes to her academics. We gave them all paper calendars, which is unheard of. Um, and so they all had paper calendars and they're saying, okay, this is the day I have this and have that. And so trying to help them manage their time a little bit better.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's good. Good job.
SPEAKER_03Good job, honey. I mean, I won't go that far, but yeah, we're trying.
SPEAKER_00No, you guys are doing a fantastic job. Yeah, you you really are. I'm I'm so appreciative of you taking some time to really encourage the parents of our church, as you do in so many other ways, but just for joining us here today. You are you guys are very intentional. You're creating a great home. You guys are doing so many of the right things. I know it's not all perfect. I know there's a lot of other horror horror stories as well. And that's okay. You know, that that's exactly right. So it's it's just so it's so encouraging. And thanks for raising kids who are gonna love Jesus and and be great contributors to the world and advance the kingdom. So thank you guys so much for being with us. I know.
SPEAKER_03Thanks so much for having us. All right, team, day in the ruin.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you. Let me say bye. Oh, we're gonna hide my phone. I'm looking at camera and say anything. Thank you so much for joining us uh on this latest episode. We'll be back as we talk middle school uh in our next episode. I can't wait. We have so much to learn, so exciting. Thank you so much. We'll see you next time.