What Every Practitioner Should Know About ACT | #TRIBETalk Ep. 39

For this episode of TRIBE Talk, we provide a introduction to Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) and explore how its core principles can support practitioners working with children, families, and carers. ACT encourages us to stay connected to what matters most, even in the presence of difficult thoughts, emotions, and workplace challenges. We discuss how ACT can help practitioners remain grounded in their values, navigate uncertainty with greater confidence, and maintain compassionate, purposeful practice in the face of everyday demands.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi everyone and welcome to Tribe Talk. You're here with Rachel Evans.

SPEAKER_00 0:03

And Luke Snockley.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

And today we're going to be talking about acceptance and commitment therapy, commonly known as ACT. So today we're going to be exploring what ACT actually is, how it can be beneficial when working with children and families, but most importantly, how practitioners can begin to apply it to their everyday practice. So today on the podcast, we're joined by Luke Stockley, who's also a behaviour analyst and a colleague of ours who specialises or is really passionate about acceptance and commitment therapy and how that can be used to support our clients. But Luke, yeah, tell us a little bit about your back your background and how you kind of found act and practice it, you know, with with the clients that you work with.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Yeah, okay, so like most people here, I actually come from a background of working with children with autism and early intervention. And basically, whilst doing our behaviour analysis, it was very focused on the things around us, the things we want to change in the environment, didn't seem to offer much in the way of thoughts and feelings and until coming across ACT, and obviously that does give some insight into you know when we're all feeling those all too human emotions, how do we manage those and still behave in the ways we want to behave? So so I found Act with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

So yeah, let's get into it then, Luke. Um let's first open our discussion around what is act. Like if you were to describe ACT to the next person, like how how would you describe it?

SPEAKER_00 1:49

ACT, it stands for Act Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, we should start with probably. And essentially it's uh a set of skills that you can apply, they're very generalizable, you can apply them to a lot of different situations, a lot of different behaviours, and it's really about how to uh you know keep in touch with things that matter to you, things that are important to you, how to stay present in the moment and how to act in ways that that again are important to you and and even in the face of of some really difficult thoughts and feelings.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

One of the questions that that comes up from some of our practitioners when when we're supporting children um through therapy is what is that difference really between ACT versus CBT, so cognitive behavioural therapy?

SPEAKER_00 2:44

CBT and ACT, they they have their similarities. Act kind of like owes a lot, I guess, to cognitive behaviour therapy. I think one has a a a rather big difference is is CBT tends to focus on when they are challenging thoughts or feelings, there may be strategies like uh looking for the evidence as to you know, is this thought true or is this thought false? And and and similar practices where we act kind of does away all with all of that and and and takes the stance of whether or not it's true or false, this is a difficult thought or feeling, and if it's going to keep coming back, even if you know it's true, or even if you know it's false, it's it's going to impact you regardless. So it's more around how can you experience that and and make a little bit of room for experiencing that knowing it's gonna keep coming back.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Yeah, I think that's so helpful for our practitioners to to understand um when you know supporting children that that have experienced trauma and what therapy or modality is gonna be most beneficial dependent on um their experiences, so whether an ACT approach would be more beneficial in a in a you know in a given situation or or or whether CBT would would lend itself better to offering that that support. Um but you you you brought up a point um uh in terms of exploring the differences between ACT and and CBT, and I suppose when people know a little bit more about ACT, they're one of those misconceptions is you know, do I just need to accept that difficult situation then or I just gotta put up with with those things? Um how would you answer like those those questions and kind of best that myths, I suppose?

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Yeah, I mean acceptance uh you know doesn't doesn't mean life is hard and that's it, you just gotta deal with it, you just gotta put a smile on, quite quite the opposite. I think when w what one thing I try to an example I try to give when I'm doing any trainings and things like that is around if we're in a hot room and you know the windows are closed and you're wearing a jumper and you're and you're feeling very hot and sweaty and you're uncomfortable. I'm not gonna be saying to you like, well, this is the perfect time to practice act because it's not this is the perfect time to open a window, this is the perfect time to take your jumper off. If there if there are things you can be doing to improve your situation, we should be doing them. But there is uh an area where that only works so far, maybe uh there are certain things within your control, but there are other things outside your control, and one of those things outside your control is often the thoughts or feelings that come to us. Act, uh, I I try to uh uh support with an understanding that if there's something we can change, let's change it. If there's not something we can change, let's strengthen some skills that will help us to to deal with those things. And and sometimes when you're practicing act, some of those difficult thoughts or feelings do go away. But that's not the the main aim of ACT. The main aim of ACT is to allow us ourselves to feel those difficult things and to do things that matter.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Yeah. I think um that we've reached a point where there's probably a good time to go through like how ACT can benefit, um how it can benefit like different people, um, and maybe different difficulties or or mental health difficulties that that people would be experiencing. So who yeah, who can ACT really benefit and in what situations?

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Well, it's it's really quite varied. There's loads of people who are gonna benefit from practicing acceptance and commitment therapy. There's uh research to show it being effective across a wide range of of individuals. So the NHS uses ACT uh for uh for people who have like a stage four cancer in in managing their pain and the symptoms of that cancer. Uh there's uh you know a wide range of populations, sports uh sports uh famous sports individuals I know use ACT in their practice to kind of like remain focused and present in the moment while you've got thousands of people looking on and and the pressure of all those expectations and hopes. But you know, narrowing that a bit, uh where ACT can be really useful is for for individuals who uh essentially engage in an awful lot of avoidance behaviour. And what I mean by that is what matters to me is socializing and connecting with other people and going outside of my house is a scary thing, and and and uh you know maybe I'm socially awkward, maybe I just don't struggle when I'm in in a in a group setting, and so I feel these anxious feelings coming up to coming up to going out and I decide, oh I'm not I'm not going to go out, I'd rather stay in. Act can be helpful for those sorts of individuals with helping them to uh you know to connect to why it is important, why why those social connections are important, why they did want to go out in the first place, and and how to experience that because you know as soon as you leave the door, those anxiety feelings are not going to go away, they're just gonna increase. But how can you experience those uh feelings and and still progress with what's important to you? And I think uh you know, uh on on the you know uh for social workers or professionals we're supporting can be really helpful the amount of people who come to us with imposter syndrome. I mean we we work in a building full of full of impostors, uh, it's the reality, and and and it's you know, any any person experiencing imposter syndrome, act can be useful to get you in touch with why it is you're in this role, what it is that's important to you, and can you do those things whilst making room for that voice in your in your mind that's telling you that you are an imposter. We use ACT with our families too, so for the parent and carer who is who has reached a point of burnout and and maybe knows some things that they should be doing, but in the moment they're resorting to punitive strategies or something because when the situation gets hard, they're now in their own kind of like fight-or-fight mode, they're not in the moment now, they're they're seeing those little indicators that a big escalation is coming, and they're not doing what matters to them or what the behaviour analyst is telling them to do, they're referring to their own uh you know survival responses, and and we can use ACT with with those individuals to increase their motivation, get them back in touch with what why they became carers in the first place, and to support them to make those changes that that really would be beneficial to the child as they go through their own journey of trauma recovery.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Yeah, because you you mentioned values and how ACT has that strong like values based on like connecting to your values. So that example that you gave around parents and carers resorting to maybe like pigmative strategies through your work um in in um supporting someone through ACT is like connecting back to your to your values, what you see, how you see yourself as a parent, what type of parent you want to be, and trying to connect back to that value space.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

I think one thing that's worth saying is no one becomes a foster carer because their dream is to send kids to the naughty step. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and and and so I think uh what often happens is is uh people who adopt, people who become foster carers, people who work in residential homes, they there are reasons they've progress in into that, um uh into those areas, and and some of them might be come with their own difficulties, and some of them might be you know uh really quite straightforward. But the point being that the things happen to bring you where you are now to make these choices to want to be in these situations, but life kind of gets on top of you, and that that we talk about the mind a lot in act, but as a as a kind of like problem-solving machine, and and it's always looking out for the next thing to be responding to. We can kind of like lose touch with the moment, but also lose touch with the things that actually made us want to be here in the first place. So Act can be helpful to to reignite that passion and and and to remember, you know, if if the reason I got into this role was because I wanted to help people when this child is escalating, what can I do in the moment to be helpful? And I think it's really important to to know we talk about values, we're not talking about uh how we value other people perceiving us as such, and and you know, if we're talking about a value of respect, it's not that that that I'm so focused on everyone respecting me, actually, we're talking about how do I put that respect out.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

So it's more about like, well uh what um what are the actions I can do in relation to to those values? Because in these roles, often so much does feel out of our control. And as behaviour analysts, we know there's a lot that's actually in our control, but as as as carers, we can we can uh uh often get to a situation where maybe you feel that there's a lot that's out of your control, but act might give you a little glimpse into what you can be doing differently and what is still within your control during those moments of heightened escalation.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

And similarly, with you know, for our practitioners that are that are listening, and this is what we really want to get into today, isn't it? Um, how ACT can be beneficial in in our practice as practitioners. So just to kind of set that scene, isn't it? What you know, we are working in a field where we are supporting children that are care experience that have that have experienced significant trauma, complex trauma, um, and practitioners that are running heavy caseloads, um, man and managing all of that, and we definitely can see this is why we wanted to put this podcast out, is how that can be beneficial in those spaces, um, you know, for for practitioners that are working in this in this field.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Yeah, absolutely. And I think uh like you know, we we we tend to apply it on the daily. I mean, if I'm if I'm being completely honest, I didn't particularly want to do this podcast. I don't I think my voice is a little bit boring for a podcast, and I'm getting all these anxieties and thoughts and feelings before coming on here, and and I can either book something else in my calendar and run away, or I can you know contribute to what is out there for for professionals and carers and and and um you know alert them to the fact that there is this this really cool strategy that they can be incorporating and and yeah to do that I need to experience a bit of discomfort and and that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Yeah. Do you want to talk us through like how you've supported some practitioners using Act in like in what situations that it's been beneficial, um yeah, and how it's benefited the practitioners that you've supported?

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Uh yeah, well, mm again we've delivered a uh several trainings to to professionals, practitioners. An ACT is uh you know, uh several there are several different components to ACT, there's lots of different little things that like you want to be ticking off to be using ACT effectively, but something really simple, uh you know, like uh a practitioner, whether that's a therapist, something I've done in my own practice, or whether it's a a social worker going on a visit, or we often have to meet people in difficult situations, we have to deliver difficult information, or and and there will often be maybe that voice in your head saying, you know, that you're not good enough, that you're not the best person for this, that someone else should be doing it, or maybe there'll be those those difficult thoughts or feelings coming up, uh and uh as I said, anxiety on the on the way to a session or or things like that. And and maybe you do notice that uh a big part of you wants to find a reason why you shouldn't be the one to do this, find a reason why you know the you you need to busy yourself and do something else and or or put it off until the next time. And in those moments, again, the reality being as long as you're you're you're going to be doing this sort of role, you are going to be experiencing some anxiety around it. Um maybe over time that'll reduce, but over time is a long time away right now. So in in the moment, things that can help are to just kind of like notice that again, acceptance and commitment therapy, that acceptance. So, what is my body telling me right now? What is my mind telling me, or am I feeling in my body, and and and where am I feeling it? You know, we we we tend to have these thoughts around anxiety or sadness or anger as these negative feelings, and and we don't want them, so we try pushing them away. But actually, genuinely, you know, uh investigate, like like you've never experienced that thought or feeling before. What is it? Where am I feeling it? Where is this discomfort? Even doing that as a massive step, it's uh something that most people would not want to do. And again, that's not necessarily to say it will go away, but uh notice these thoughts, notice these these feelings. There are a lot of strategies that can be be helpful. The the biggest one I use is is uh thanking your mind, which is essentially that acknowledgement that your your mind your mind is not trying to be nasty or mean to you, your mind is trying to protect you. It's saying, This is a scary situation, you don't want to be in this, can you get away? Just like years and years ago, uh we uh you know living on the land, we would have seen predators, and our minds would be telling us you need to run. It's doing the exact same thing, only only now that big scary predator is now words essentially that we've attached meaning to. But essentially, when I notice my mind telling me that I can't do this or someone else should do this, so I don't want to do this. I acknowledge it, you know, thanks, mind. I can see you you're trying to protect me, but I connect to my value, you know, I want I want to help people, and and this is this is how I'm going to help people. So it's that that kind of like uh you know uh grounding in the moment, being present and and and and and there's lots of things we can do around that, the the noticing if if you're struggling, when I say like notice what those thoughts and feelings are in your body, if you're if you're struggling to connect to that difficult thought or feeling is feeling overwhelming, okay, just shift your awareness to another part of your body for a moment. Yeah, your heart is beating very fast. What are your feet doing right now? Notice where they are on the ground, push into the ground a little bit, then come back to notice your breathing. Is it fast? Is it slow? And keep going round and round and nuts and nuts and things to connect to the present moment.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

I think what you when you just started talking and giving some examples of I think lots of our practitioners, our social work practitioners that we work with would resonate with that feeling of I've gotta deliver a difficult piece of news to this child. I don't wanna do this. You know, how am I gonna do this? And bring and that brings up a lot of feelings um of avoidance. This is scary. I don't know how they're gonna take it. Um so whether they're delivering news that um a child has gotta move on to another placement or delivering something difficult about a bereavement. Um so I think what you just shared there is i it's it's important to kind of acknowledge, isn't it, what um like your mind and your body's doing at that time and then using some of those techniques that you just said, um, how to ground and and how to bring you back to that like values place.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Yeah, and it can help with like uh the the reality being if you're that in your mind when those conversations are going on, if you're that worried about how how are they gonna take care, how do I deliver and and and if you're that in your mind about all these difficult thoughts and feelings you're having, you're not really with the child anymore, if you see what I mean. And and so again, those those practices of of of grounding, of of being present, of noticing what's going on around you, of noticing how they're receiving that information, is naturally more conducive to to validating their thoughts and feelings and being there for them than in constantly just living in your mind and and giving giving that kind of like radio uh uh the the free reign in your head while while the young person just received some difficult news.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Yeah. Okay, look, so we always finish the podcast with like a a question from a parent or a carer or practitioner. Um but I suppose I think I'd like to end the podcast today with you sharing like what is one of those things that you would want practitioners to remember about this podcast and take away from this podcast to help them in their day-to-day practice.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Yeah, I mean there's a there's a lot. I'd like people to go away and and learn more about ACT is the reality of what I'd like people to take away because there's so much there that can be useful. And we've briefly talked a little around some strategies, but but the reality being that there's an awful lot to be practicing here, and it is like a muscle. Your act skills need to be practiced daily or frequently at the very least to make sure you're practicing it. But one thing I'd like people to be taking away today is the reality that you know whether you're a practitioner, whether you are a parent or carer, like uh the same applies. We're we're working in areas where there is a high rate of like burnout. We are seeing a lot of people who are uh struggling and um or maybe even suffering from secondary trauma. And I think just acknowledging that you know that that this is a difficult area to be working in. This is this there's a lot to take on beyond just the nine to five, there are things that follow you home and and and so to to you know to have a level of of self-compassion, we're talking about acceptance, but it's really important that that you you know do acknowledge that it's that it can be tough and and some days are hard, and to have that level of self-compassion. And if anyone is is thinking, well, I you know don't know how to do that, a really simple, quick activity for demonstrating uh self-compassion is is to think of someone who who you care about, who you who you who you love deeply, who you wouldn't want to see going through some difficult things, and imagine they are in that situation. And what would you be saying to them? Because our minds tend to beat us up and say, like, oh what are you you know, get on with it, or or you know, other people are doing it, so you should be okay, and those sorts of things that can come up. But imagine that someone you care about is going through it, have a think about what it is you would like to be uh uh saying to them, and then take them out of that situation and put yourself in there and and and say that to yourself. Tell yourself those things.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

So yeah, that is the end of um our podcast for for today, and I I I yeah, I don't think we've even kind of like stra scratched the surface of we look and like everything that you want to talk about in terms of in terms of act, but we really wanted to put um a podcast on that specifically spoke to practitioners and and how we can use ACT and ACT techniques to support us in our in our day-to-day practice, given you know the difficulties that we um that we come up against in our in our practice, and like you were talking about compassion, like we all come into into these roles um because we want to make a difference and we want to support the the the children, the young people and the families that that that we're working with. And um I know you've got a lot more to say um on this topic, so we'll definitely do some more um some more podcasts around um act in in in different um um yeah, how it can be beneficial for different people, and and I know you've got lots of um techniques and activities you want to talk about as well. Um but yeah, just for today, just to summarise some of our discussion is you know we we've just kind of introduced this concept of or of act, what it is, what it isn't, and how it can be beneficial in in your practice. I hope you've managed to take some some useful um things away from the discussion today. Um so yeah, thank you for joining us on Tribe Talk. If you do want to know any more information about trauma-informed care in practice, then subscribe to Tribe Talk.