EP 15 | Building Inclusive Communities | Somali Woman Leading Change in Education & Leadership

In this episode, we speak with Suaad Abdulle, an educator, business coach, and inclusion advocate, about her journey building CIP in Kenya and SISEND in Somalia.

We discuss:

• inclusive education
• special needs advocacy
• female leadership
• mentorship and coaching
• empowering women and families
• navigating leadership as a Somali woman
• building impact-driven organizations in East Africa

A powerful conversation on leadership, purpose, resilience, and creating change where systems are still developing.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I always say this, even though I feel like some people might disagree, but not everybody needs a therapist, but I feel like everybody needs a coach. Because you know, like coaching, it really uh holds your hand and you know, like tells you a way out. Coaching is about few meetabilities.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Obviously, therapy is for a reason, yes, and coaching is for a reason. I think the difference between therapy and coaching, therapy is you offload, yeah, and obviously you have uh uh tools for them to support with your mental health. So if you're struggling with mental health, by all means. I sometimes people come to me for coaching and I send them for therapy because you need to work on yourself. You need to work on your inner on yourself before you can work on the things that you want to work on. With coaching, it's all about unlocking your potential. So the coach doesn't do anything, honestly. You do the work, but they show you the path.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Asalam Alaikum and welcome back to another episode of the Cultured Voices Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Fatima Mohammed, and today I am with a very, very special guest. I think I always say this about my guests, but honestly, I feel like you know, like I'm very particular about who I like to talk to, especially on the podcast. So I'm like, oh my guests are such incredible, especially the women. Mashallah. Thank you so much. Anyways, I met this beautiful lady in a at a random night. Yes, right, and her name is Surah, but inshallah, she will introduce herself much better. Um, so welcome guys. I hope you subscribed. Um, if you have not seen the other episodes, go ahead and do so. And uh yeah, welcome back. Hi Asalam Alaikum.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Alaikum Asalamu Rahmatullah, thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

I'm no thank you for having me. It's a privilege to come to your podcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Culture Voices is quite a name.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Hey, I love it. Thank you so much. How are you? Alhamdulillah. Beautiful, mashallah.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Thank you. I made an effort today. I'm not um I'm not a glummy makeup person, but I felt today um on Culture Voices. You know, when you communicated to me, it's like it's all about you, and I thought, yeah, let me make it about me and let me make an effort and I feel like so.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Talking about you, do you would you want to tell us who you are? Maybe make a little introduction.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Okay, I have a lot of hats. So my name is Sua Ad Abdullah. Um, I was born in Somalia. I'm a child of war, and I'm a mom to a beautiful five human beings. Oh mashaAllah. I'm a wife, a sister, a daughter, but I'm also an educator, a coach, and a mentor.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

MashaAllah.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

And kind of someone who advocates, someone who uh fights for corners of those who don't have voice. Um, so yeah, and honestly, every time someone asks me, Who are you? I kind of struggle with identities because it's like you you as women we wear so many hats.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

And sometimes when you try to explain all of them, it can be overwhelming to some, but that's who we are. Like we literally wear so many hats, and I one of those mothers.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

I love that. And you know, like the thing is like uh when even before I started this podcast, I was very like uh I was questioning whether or not I should be the one introducing the the guest, or should they be introducing the guest? And since uh from a personal experience, I know it's very, very hard for for me also to tell people who I am. And that question, like, can you introduce yourself? It's so hard even for me. Yeah, but I feel like it's very important for the person to tell them, to tell other people who they are, and I feel like the more you do that, the more comfortable you get.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Absolutely. And then I think um when I came to your um Ramadan iftar and you kind of encouraged us to introduce ourselves and our businesses, majority of our women, including myself, we struggled and we had to do one or two takes to get it right. Um, even though I'm a very confident person who can speak in a large crowd who are confident speaker, the minute you turn the light on me, I kind of get shy and I'm like, oh, who am I? Yeah. But I think, as you said, the more we do it, the more we will be get uh confident in introducing ourselves. But I think the most important job that I have is being a mother and an educator because you start educating your own children.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

That is so true.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

And so, yeah, that's something that I I feel proud of, even though I've been a working professional mom throughout my life. Mashallah.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Yes, that is so honestly, that is so true because sometimes when we actually put the light on ourselves, we get really, really shy about um telling people who we are, and especially using big words. And just to give you guys um a little foundation, uh what we're talking about is Sisters Connect. So I have a page for women, uh, and I don't like to use, I don't know, the word empowerment is just very confusing for a lot of people, but it's just to build skills and to make them better in both um their professional lives and their personal lives.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

So one of the events I think leadership, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Yeah, so one of the things we did um at an iftar dinner that we had was introduction, and we're just um practicing how to introduce ourselves as women. And one of the things I was telling them is that we should be okay and comfortable to use big words. Like, you know, the way um an example is like somebody would say, Oh, I have a small business here, but you don't have a small fitness, you are a founder of so-and-so business, or you are a co-founder of so or you're a CEO of this and this. And I feel like as women, we don't normally say things like that and use such words. Men, in like you know, they're completely the opposite where they use the biggest words and they feel very comfortable, and sometimes they literally, sometimes they can be delusional, and I love that.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

But I think as uh women, it's about how we raised, yeah. Um, and a lot of women are being raised in a way of being quiet, you know, don't have a lot of uh loud voice and generally timid, and that's how you grew up with, and we haven't been taught to uh light uh shine light on us, so a lot of the time we dim ourselves. Um, but I'm big on confident, I'm big on speaking about what we do, yeah. Um, but I'm getting there to kind of talk about you know the achievements that and the accomplishments that I have.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

And that is why we're here, guys, today. Well, the only thing we're going to be talking about here is who Surah is and how like you know, achievements and what she's done, and a little bit about her business, as insha'Allah. So we will get started. Um one of the first questions I wanted to ask you is when you look at your achievements, what are you most proud of?

SPEAKER_00 7:23

I think coming back to Somalia and creating a system that helps children who otherwise wouldn't get an education, to get an education and to be recognized their existence. I think that's my primary moment.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Maybe can you do you want to touch on that and maybe tell the people what that system was?

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Okay, so obviously, as I said earlier, I was a child of war. So when the civil war happened, I was a young, became a refugee in Kenya and then immigrated to Europe. There, where I uh grew up, where I studied, where I had my family. And in 2018, I decided to come back to Somalia as a diaspora expert and to work with the Ministry of Education of Somalia. And when I initially came, I came in back as a technical advisor on disability inclusive education. But when I arrived, what I had in mind, obviously I left Somalia in early 90s and I came back in late 2000 and you know, 2018, and I didn't think life was like that. So when I came and I looked at the system, what is um available, I realized there was nothing planned or created for those children who otherwise have uh different learning um capabilities. So initially it was everybody was against it because they felt those who had the ability couldn't access anything. Why would you think those who are disadvantaged or have disability or learning difficulties would get an access because who are they going to be to the community? What would they bring to the table? And that's the mindset that the people had at the time. So I had to fight my corner to say, no, they have a right to education, and that has to be prepared for them. So I created a policy, special and special and inclusive education policy, and that policy opened doors to finances, opened doors to creating a unit, open doors to now Ministry of Education have a directorate on inclusive education. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

That's huge.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

How long did that take you? Uh a year and a half to two years max. So by 2020, um 15% of the education budget was designed for children with special needs. That is amazing. Yeah, mashallah.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

What got you into the work of like special needs? Maybe if you want to touch on that.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Um, I have a severe learning difficulty myself. So when I was um obviously I did my primary education in Somalia. So when I was in school, I've always struggled to read and write, but nobody knew what it was. The teachers couldn't figure out why I was so um articulate in speaking, why I was so confident in knowing and understanding what was just taught, but then writing, but couldn't dictate what the teacher wrote on the board and couldn't read what was on the board. So because I was so clever, I used to tell the teachers so that I don't left behind, I know what I'm talking about. Would you write for me? So in exams, teachers used to write for me. Wow. And my parents never knew, like, because I would say to them, like, write for me. And then one time uh my parents came, my dad came, and the teacher said to him, Do you know your daughter cannot read and write? And it's like, but why how she's passing every year? And then he said, Oh, because she asks teachers to write because she has the knowledge, but she just cannot put it onto paper.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

And so when they also write on the board, how like do you also tell them to read it to you?

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Yeah, obviously they do read because it's a road learning. So when they uh write things on the board, they will be uh dictating to us, they will be reading to us. So I was a visual learner, so whatever they put on the board as they're reading, I capture it memorily. And then I relate to the teacher, and he's like, Can you write that in your book? And I was like, No, I can't. I cannot write it.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

I couldn't even write my name.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

I knew from like grade one, mashallah. I couldn't, like, you know, initially you started grade one, and children who started with me, actually, my younger brother were in the same class as me, because we're only 11 months apart. And he caught, you know, he did really well. And because we went to Madrasa prior to that, it was the same thing for Duxie. I would do the Hiv, but I struggled to remember what I learned, what I wrote, and what the teacher asked me to write. I was slightly better with Arabic than Latin, but it's still I struggled. So it was about.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

You know, a lot of the kids in a normal sense would be like, oh, maybe I'm not that smart, or I maybe I'm I am not that brilliant. But you actually took it as like maybe there's this specific part that I can do, but doesn't mean that that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

No, I was very loud. Yeah, I was very loud in the classroom. I was always the one who put the hand up, and I'm the one always relaying back the information.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Do you think that uh confidence came from your your childhood or your parents?

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Um, I think my mom. My mom is a very strong woman, she's always worked. Um, my dad was an imam and then in a mosque, so he was always around and mom always traveled. And I think I got that, you know, and because I grew up with boys, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

You became tough? Yes. Nobody could tell you anything.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Yes, so I've always been kind of fighting my corner because I grew up with my brothers.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

So, but uh so from that um experience in Somalia, when did you get to the into the UK? And um um you I think you told me that you actually studied special education at the UK.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

So I got to the UK in my early teens, um, and I actually struggled with school, so I decided to get married. So I went to Europe when I was 14 and then got married at the age of 17, and because I I struggled with education and nobody would understand, it's when I got married and moved to the UK that I went to evening classes and I could speak English but only verbal. Again, I couldn't read and write the English language, but I was able to uh pick up the language through TV and talk to um one of the things that I was I loved about the UK is that I used to talk to elderly women and I used to tell them, oh, by the way, um I struggle with pronunciation because obviously in the UK I found out that I had a learning difficulty, which I didn't know before. Uh, you can't pronounce certain words.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

You can't know you when you were diagnosed.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Um I was actually 21, but I didn't get the official diagnosis until I was 35.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Wow. Because um when I why it took that long when you were in the UK.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Two things. Because when I was in college studying, um, they don't pay for it, and it's very expensive to get the uh assessment. So my college tutor had dyslexia. She's the actually one who figured it out. I had dyslexia, that's the name that for my disability, learning disability. And she said, she told me because she was an assessor, so my teacher said, Oh, so I talks a lot, but no substance.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

She knows whatever she's talking about, but she cannot submit a the paperwork, like this assignment. But I didn't know how. I didn't know what to do, and I was shy about to do that.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

So she advocated for you.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

So when the assessor came, we were 17 of us, we were doing high school diploma. And I by then I had my third child. And so in the UK, you can study your high school diploma with a qualification. Uh, it's called vocational training. So you can get a qualification so that you can get into jobs, but you can also do your secondary education. Um, so when the assessor comes to assess uh the portfolio, we were 17 of us. I and I think by by then I was in the class for from September to December. So the assessor was bottomboarded by in December, and majority of the people built their portfolio, but I didn't. But in the classroom, I was the only one who knew what they're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Wow, that's brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

And so when the Twitter came, and part of that course is that you have to work. So I was working in early years um school because I was studying early years teaching. And she came to visit me in my school the first time, and she she was giving information that I'm all talk about nothing. And then she came, she watched I was with the kids, I was teaching and all of that, and she's like, Oh my god, Zwad, you have dyslexia. And I'm like, What is that? She's a learning difference, and she said, I've got it, and you're a spit image of me. Zoe, I love her so much. She's an amazing, she's actually now uh works in a college in London working with children with special needs. She's amazing. So she is the one who diagnosed me, but obviously she couldn't do it officially. So she supported me. Out of the 17 individuals, I was the first one to complete my portfolio. MashaAllah. Because she supported me of ways of what to do.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Yes. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

So that's how I know what I struggled with, and that's probably why I love what I do, and it's not a job for me, it's a passion because I struggled with learning.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

And you can understand that, you know, like um put yourself in their shoes. Yes. That's amazing. Okay. So um, now that we're talking about your life in the UK, um, how was that experience, especially working as a special education teacher, educator? Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Um, so obviously, as I said, I started my life as a teen in the UK. Um, motherhood came before professionalism, but when I finished my uh qualification for early years childhood teacher, I got employed in the local authority that I was living at the time. Harrow, shout out to Harrow. Um, and I started working in the schools as an assistant to start with because I only had level two. And then I was uh what I did was when I was doing my level three, which is equivalent to A level, um, I chose to do a part of it uh as a special education because that's something that was close to my heart. And then I did that. I worked in the local in that particular uh local authority and within those schools, within those local authorities for about 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Before I decided that I want to do my degree. Um, and I've always wanted to do my degree. I remember when I started learning the English language, I had already had my second son. I was 20. And he was quite difficult, and he was only six months when I gone back to school. And my husband couldn't keep him, and I remember him saying they are very young, they were two under two, and he said that it's a bit too much for him. Um, and I remember going to the college that evening because I used to do evening classes, and I got really emotional, and I said, I'm gonna get my degree before the age of 40, and I'm gonna focus the next 20 years with my kids.

unknown 20:04

MashaAllah.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

It was something that I put that in the back of my mind without knowing. I worked towards that journey, and by the time I was 40, I had a master's degree.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Masha'Allah.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

So sometimes you just have to yes, you have to have a goal and also prioritize things, and even if you have and cannot do that, what you loved that time, don't give up.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Build on it, build on it. I love that, mashallah. So from that, like how long did you work as a special education teacher there? And then how was the experience of or what made that you make the decision of coming back to Africa?

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Okay, so I I worked in the UK schools for about 20 years before I decided that I want to go back home. Um, and I really loved, I worked in mainstream school, I worked in a special school, I supported parents. Um, but I think what made me come back was in 2016 I came back for holiday. I always came back to Nairobi. I think 2024, 2004 I came back. You had family here? Uh yes, uh my dad. I came back in 2008. I actually stayed for about a year. Oh, my God. Um, but it I got pregnant again and I thought, mm, I'm gonna go back. And I went back. And so I I I came on holiday in 2016. I stayed for a couple of months here just for holiday, and I really fell in love with the African kind of lifestyle. And then I went to Mordisha for a week. Oh my god, for the first time since 1991.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

And I fell in love. I went back to the UK at the time I concluded my degree. But I didn't have my master's. So I went back and I said to my husband, I want to I want to do my master's and I want to go back to Martesh.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

What did you do your masters on?

SPEAKER_00 22:09

Special and inclusive education. So my undergraduate is a special and inclusive education practice. Like, how would you do it? And my master's is perspectives. Like I've kind of looked at how inclusion works for the global south and the global north. So he was like, Are you crazy? Like, why will you go back to Moctusha? We had life here. And I said, No, I fell in love. So he said, Okay, do your masters, and then we will see. So I took a two-year program, one year full-time, and one year research.

unknown 22:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

So I finished the one-year program, and 2017 summer, one year later, I came back to NeuroBe again with the kids.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

You had moved.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

One-way ticket.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

And then I went to Moghdysh for two weeks. My two younger kids. So I have five kids. I have three similar in age. At the time they were teenagers. Some of one of them was adults and two were teenagers. And I left them. I brought my seven-year-old and eight-year-old at the time. And my husband's like, Are you sure? I said, Yeah, if it doesn't work out, I'll come back. But I want to make it work. And I was still doing my research. So I really wanted to do my research in Africa. So it has meaning to me. So I came back, I went back to Makudisha for two weeks, did my research. I actually did my research on a visually impaired student studying in specialist provision for primary school and in a mainstream school for their secondary education.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

MashaAllah.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

And there was a mismatch because they didn't get the same support that they had in primary, in secondary. The curriculum that they were using were not designed for them. So that has kind of sparked for me to come up with a braille curriculum, which in 2020 I achieved it. I actually am the first Somali educator who converted Somali national curriculum into braille for visually impaired.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

That is incredible. Because my that's a huge achievement. And the fact that you actually saw that problem, and and I love that you actually did your research there because that actually, you know, like it makes you see a lot more things differently. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

So that's what I did. And then I went back for six months just to get some cash. Yeah. So I worked as a freelance educator in the UK. And January 2020, I landed the job at the Ministry of Education, and I never looked back ever since.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

MashaAllah. Yeah. So you were an advisor for them?

SPEAKER_00 25:06

I was a technical advisor, yes. MashaAllah. And in 2020, I actually uh COVID happened to me in Mogdishu. I actually ran to Moghdisha for COVID because I I had things to do.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

So where were your kids at the time?

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Nairobi with my husband. So finally my husband moved with us. My older children, two of them don't choose to come and move with me. Only one decided to stay there, he's still there. And uh the rest are here, including my husband, and it gave me a joy. And in 2020, that's when I realized my leadership because I led the COVID-19 response for the Ministry of Education. Girl, you didn't tell me that. I did, and I raised for the Ministry of Education 25 million US dollars in two months.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Wow, and you raised the capital from the diaspora?

SPEAKER_00 26:05

No, uh from the donors. Oh, from the donors?

SPEAKER_01 26:08

That is incredible. Yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

That's when I realized I had a flair in leadership. So I led the whole team. Actually, it was a from a government. We were the first ministry to get the response plan out before the Ministry of Health.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

That is in that is huge.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

And I led that team. That's huge.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

I didn't actually know that about you. Mashallah. So how did um where did Sisend so when did I get the first time?

SPEAKER_00 26:43

So when I did that, when I did that, um, that was March to kind of July. So by July the fund came and I was I led the ministry. So we had we were the responsible was about three object uh objectives: prevention, continuative education, and also um return, safe return to school. So when all kind of we approved, we got the budget, one particular donor gave us 10 million. Wow, and that 10 million was supposed to fund the majority of the response plan. Yeah, and one of it was um continuity of education, which I took that objective. And again, Somalia was the first African country to create online distance learning from grade one to 12 within six months, and I led that team too.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Much uh during COVID.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

During COVID, so it's called Fogandarsi. Yeah, if you if you put Foganders in Google, you get the platform, it's free, led by the Ministry of Education, and Somali children can all over the world access that platform. Yes. And when the donor says to me, obviously UNICEF and Microsoft approached us to give us a platform, but when we looked at it, the platform looks very complicated for the Somali children. So a Somali uh IT program hired for the Ministry of Education has done the platform.

unknown 28:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

It's in Somali, in Arabic and in English, and it was a grassroots um program. And the donors couldn't couldn't believe that we could do that in Somali, and we did.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Mashallah, you know, a lot of the time when it comes to like um like works in the organizations, and a lot of the time when we hear like, you know, such money was taken from the donors, and a lot of the time we don't really hear success stories. Yeah. And I love that, mashallah, you led two teams, one during like, you know, for for the whole prevention of COVID, and then another one for education, and they they were both great successes.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Yes, to continue. And I and I think the Minister of Education Minister of Education leadership at the time were really good forward for homegrown Somali lad. Yeah and that is what helped us because I feel a lot of the time Somalis we don't, and I think it's an African thing, it might be a colonial mindset that we do not believe that we could do something. All the teachers um actually created the teaching program in smart boards. Wow. And because of the the difficulties that they were having with Al-Shabaab and all that, we didn't show their faces, we used their voices and the technical people, whether it's platform, whether it's the ICT team, everybody was Somali. No person that came, no foreigners came to help us. So we're Somali-led.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Like that's such a huge accomplishment. Thank you. I didn't know that before. And masha'Allah Tabarkalah, that is uh incredible.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

So and that's when Sisen was born. Okay. Because I realized I've done my bit for the government. Now I need to use those skills to create an organization that I led, that I make the decision. And in Sisend stands for Somali Institute of Special Educational Needs and Disability. And that organization has assessed over 20,000 Somali children and provided assistive devices with uh with the help and the effort of Somali government and the donors, over 3,000 children with assistive devices.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

That is incredible.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Can you give us an example of the assistant devices?

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Um, some of it were braille, um, braille equipment, some of it were recording, and some of it were glasses, kind of medical equipment, crutches, wheelchairs. Wow. Anything that would help them continue their education. And make it easier for them. And make it easier to finish that. And while I was, I I forgot while I was in the Ministry of Education, in 2019, the first batch of visually impaired students at the national examination. There were 28 of them, and out of those 28, I think dozen of them have finished university and now have successful jobs.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

MashaAllah.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Because of the examination, because of the policies that I created for the Ministry of Education. So I feel like what SISEN has done with the foundation was the opportunity that I got to work with the government as an advisor.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

That's incredible. Thank you. I feel like I'm wowed. Now I feel like I'm I'm like, that is amazing. Because honestly, just to have even a few students who you actually changed their lives in that way, and then you know, like um the thing is, I feel like we'll when you start to get the ball rolling, and it's just the system just makes it happen for more students, even though you don't have a hand in it. That is incredible. Honestly, I feel like um young kids, because I've been to Somalia a few times and I worked with NGOs a few times as well, and to see change like that is quite rare. It is, and I think because every time I was putting myself in their shoes, if I feel like you've also been through that, and I feel like it's just a nice circle since you you knew how to assess them. And I love that the first thing you did was to assess. Yes. And then after the assessment, once you've understood what they needed, you provided that that is mashallah.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

That's and then train the teachers. I trained over 500 teachers to support those children, and I still teachers call me from all corners of Somalia to say that your training has made us understand children with hidden disability. Because now I'm talking to you, if your listers are listening or watching, they wouldn't know I had a learning disability unless I told them. And so there's so many children with hidden disability that is not obvious to the naked eyes. And it's important that educators, community, and parents know how to identify those children and how to help them, and how to support them because every child is destined to reach their potential if we create the environment that they need to you know to succeed.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

I love how passionate you are about this and how passionate you are about education because it really it really stands out, and I can honestly see that. And the fact that you actually, because as I said before, there's a lot of things that um, you know, like these organizations and these NGOs do, but then a lot of them get stuck somewhere, and then the result is not really that um adamant or that beautiful because a lot of the time it's a tick box for them, it's a job for them, and for me, it is a passion, it is something that I feel like I need for me, yeah, because I got the support that I had from my adopted country, otherwise I wouldn't be here today.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

So, whatever I do, whether it's uh CISAN, whether it's consulting a uh organization, whether it's coaching, whether mentoring, for me, I I do what I wanted for me when I was their position.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

And uh like um since now I know you live in Kenya, uh is SISAN still continuing?

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Yes, SISAN still continues. My staff is still in Somalia. Obviously, they said the parameter change of Somalia's budget is depend on international aid. Because of the aid um reduction, it impacted us hugely. However, it still exists, we still do grassroots support, we still do training for teachers, we still provide uh children with uh assistance uh assistance whenever we get budget.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Yeah, so now let's get to CIP because then after that you came to Nairobi, yes, and then maybe tell us how you so I've always lived in Nairobi, so my children always were here.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

I was only working in Somalia, and in 2023, a lot of families obviously I'm on social media, I was doing Facebook Live, I was doing TikTok live, I have a huge following on Snapchat, and a lot of the time parents contacting me and saying to me, can you look for me a school? Can you recommend a school?

SPEAKER_01 35:38

Especially the diaspora.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Diaspora, because they they knew I was passionate about or knowledgeable about this area. And I did a research uh on special and inclusive education in Kenya. Yes, there's a lot of schools, yes, there's a lot of centers, but majority of it were mainly what they were doing was borrowed, but they didn't understand how to kind of provide uh practical uh interventions for children with different with difference. Majority of it also the the therapy and education were not um synergized. So they were working uh you know in silos. And then that's when I realized, oh, okay, I can do something. And because I'm an assessor on educational ability testing, I was uh and I'm the only one currently having that qualification in Kenya.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

I realized that there's a there's a need um for me to be able to provide that service to children and their families. So I opened, um, I I registered the company in 2023, January, but it took me a year to find the right uh environment. And April, I found their place January 2024, and I opened the doors to uh student to April 2024. So actually, tomorrow is our second anniversary. MashaAllah.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

When we opened it, thank you. And you're opening a second one.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

We're opening a second one in Sodsiallah in about 10 days' time. MashaAllah Tawah.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

So um just for I think a lot of the time a lot of people don't really understand what special needs is. Maybe can you tell us exactly what special needs is?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Okay, I think the term special needs is a term that I used for everybody who has additional needs or difference. Um it means children or young adults or individuals who have a kind of a different way of looking at education. Um we prefer, you know, for me, like someone who's neurodivergent, to be called a neurodivergent. We have a different type of outlook into our brain. So we call it neurotypical and neurodivergent. But special needs is a term that a lot of people have adopted. It just means you have a need that is different to the majority of the people. So it it's in four ways, uh, four broad areas. So we look at cognition and learning, so how the brain uh takes information and and and process that. We also look at communication, so some people might have communication barriers and they might go into the category of special needs. Some might go into the category of special needs because of their physical or sensory needs, and some might be in their social and emotional or mental health needs. So those are four broad categories of someone uh having difficulties or uh differences in an area of need.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

That's amazing. So if a parent is listening to this and they're wondering, maybe they're not understanding what or how they can help their child, what would you advise them?

SPEAKER_00 39:16

And I I think the first thing is kind of understand what the child's difficulties are as well as what their strengths are. There's a lot of labeling. You can have uh children with autism, uh children with ADHD, children with ADD, children with um dyspraxia, dyscolchelia, dyslexia. There's a lot of names and it's easier to label children or young adults, but I think for me, the labeling only helps for two things, two things. One, acceptance from the parent because it's not their fault that their child turns out the way they have.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

Understanding.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Understanding that their child is different, not because they have done a bad parenting. And in the West, it unlocks financial support. If your child is diagnosed with a typical with with a with a label and they have a report, it unlocks a financial processes. If those are not necessary, I actually don't like labeling individuals because sometimes it can be a hindrance because you can be put in a box. You know, if someone who doesn't have the knowledge would put me in a box just because I cannot read and write, I wouldn't be where I am today.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

You wouldn't be like able to open your eyes and you know, like figure out what the thing is.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Um actually, in terms of intelligence, the top 2% in the United Kingdom when I was tested for educational ability. So for me, what I would say to parents, focus on your child's ability, focus on their strength, and try to navigate around their deficit.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

I love that you said strength. Because a lot of people see special needs and they see people that need to be um the empathetic, sympathetic, lack of, you know, they are missing something.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

But actually, every human being has a talent. And our job is to find that talent through the strength and their ability. So when I opened the center, one of the bilatic things that I did, and it's now very successful, and it's actually opposite to the norm, is that I do not get background information from a parent.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Because you don't have to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Just I get the basic legal requirement and I tell them, give me six weeks to get to know your child. And I will tell you your child. Now tell me after that whether I got to know your child or not. And 10 out of 10 times, our team got it on spot on in child profiling. And we start with strength. We don't start with deficit. So we tell the parent when we create their child's individual educational plan that this is what your child is good at. Like, how do you know? We have never noticed this. Because they're focusing a lot on the lack, on the deficit. So it's really important that when we look at an individual, we look at what they're good at and what are their strengths rather than what they lack and what they're missing.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

That's that's beautifully said. That's beautifully said about your staff. Um, since I feel like in Kenya, special needs is such a new thing. Do you train them yourself?

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Actually, Kenya special needs isn't a new thing. Kenya has established the uh Kenya Institute of Special Education in 1986.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

So individuals were being trained since 1986. Unfortunately, what is lacking is practice.

unknown 43:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Theory, policy, everything is spot on because it is the barrowed knowledge. So what is missing is how to uh turn the theory into practice. And what I do is a lot of the teachers that I hire are either from the one of the universities in Kenya or uh Kisei, Kenyan Institute of Special Education, and all I do is train them on how they uh practically use those knowledge into the practice. That's where hence where the name came from Center for Inclusive Practice. So we focus on changing the theory into practice. So what we do is kind of bottom up, we focus on practice. Rather than policy.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

And so is the school uh specifically for kids for of special needs or is it yes?

SPEAKER_00 44:07

So this uh the center. We we like to call ourselves a center because we're the bridge between special schools and mainstream schools. So our center is designed to uh support children with neurodivergent and developmental difficulties. So we do not at the moment, unfortunately, uh uh take on children with physical challenge.

unknown 44:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

So children with autism, children with ADHD, children with learning difficulties. So learning difficulty it varies. Um it is uh dyslexia, which is uh reading and writing, so it's kind of like literacy, dyscochelia, children with maths difficulties, uh dyspraxia, children with motor difficulties, and dysgraphia, children with writing difficulties.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

So normally you would assess the child first before um understanding whether or not your center would be. Would be suitable for them, yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

So we take children from age three to eleven, we use the national curriculum and we integrated therapy and education. So our therapists work with our teachers hand in hand and we train our teachers on how to implement the therapy interventions in the classroom. And so when children come, they come, they visit the center, we observe them, we assess them, and we find the suitability for them. Sometimes, if the child is not suitable, our center, we'll find other suitable centers. And our job is to eventually transition those children into mainstream because I am all for of inclusive education.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

That's amazing. Yes, okay. Now now that we have uh like I wanted to really touch on like you know, inclusivity because I feel like that's such a special it holds such a special place in your heart, and it's very obvious, mashallah to barakala. But I wanted to talk a little bit more about your leadership. So um, one of the questions that I had is as a female leader, because I feel like you've already touched on it, uh especially in your leadership in Somalia. So, as a female leader, especially even building, even now uh with your centers, um what has that experience been like as a female leader, especially in in the community and in the society that you live in?

SPEAKER_00 46:25

I think people doubting you. Yeah, people think, oh, she's a woman, how can she do this? But I think now how the world is moving forward, yeah, people are realizing women are very powerful and can make changes possible. And I think for the first year, financially it was very difficult because a lot of is it's a private institution. We do not get any donors or any government funding. Uh so it's a parent-funded. A lot of the parents didn't believe in us and think that we could do uh difference to their children's lives. I'm so grateful for those who interested in us and believed in us initially, and now parents are singing our braces across the world. Yesterday, a parent visited us all the way from the UK, and she said her mom's friend recommended us, and she said, I went and looked at the your social medias, and I'm like, is this real? Is what what is this on social media? Is it real? Is it really happening? And when she came and saw, she said, Wow, what I saw online is exactly what I can see here. And a lot of parents with children who otherwise find difficult with communication, they'll come to you and they say to you, Oh, can you make my child talk? And I'm like, I'm not God. Exactly. I cannot make your child talk. However, I have the tools to make your child communicate and understand and express themselves. And a lot of parents come to me and they said, Oh, we've been promised a lot of things from other people, it's never delivered. That's why I assess your child. That's why after six weeks, I can tell you what I can and cannot do with your child based on what I've learned from them. And Alhamdulillah, for the grace of God, I was able to propel children to success. We have children who now fully functioning speaking because they had the tools and the systems in place. And parents now, actually, a lot of the parents now say so admix people children talk.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

Masha'Allah, Tawa Rakallah. Uh so other than the other than the doubting, because I feel like that is a real thing, and a lot of people really, really do have that doubt when it comes to like female leadership. So, um, do you think you lead differently as a woman?

SPEAKER_00 49:07

I really do, and I feel like women lead with emotion and compassion. And I think a lot of the time because we understand, and by the way, all my staff are female because I believe that a lot of the time females don't get the opportunities that they need, and I already have promoted two of three of my staff to me middle management so that they can be also leaders. And so one of the difficulties that I have initially was kind of multitasking the financial aspect, the business side aspect, the leadership aspect, but I think when you lead from the heart and not just from the head, because obviously you need the head to lead, we are advantage of men because we are we are able to combine the emotion and the rationale.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

I love that. Yes, I love that. So, um, with that being said, how do you think you balance between being firm and being approachable as a leader?

SPEAKER_00 50:20

Uh it's having systems and processes in place, training and everyone to know that where they stand and where they need to go, having a vision because my team have the same vision as I have, and everyone who joins us they have to tell the vision, and our vision is every child to reach their full potential because we all have the same vision, it's easier to lead. Actually, I'm not a good manager, I'm a good leader. I have a manager. It is a difference. A manager is someone who kind of does the day-to-day management, who kind of make sure people do their job. A leader is someone who sees the big vision, the big picture. And sense the culture for the other. So the minute you come into my center, and I would love you to come and visit us, you feel at home. Like you can see the inclusion, you can see the you know, everyone wanting the children for the best. So I always tell them CIP will be in your life for the rest of your life because it will be in your CV. Well, that's it. So if we succeed, we all succeed. If we fail, we all fail. We have no option to fail because of our children.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

I love the mashallah. Like, I feel like the way you run things as you, like it's very holistic.

SPEAKER_02 51:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

Because it's not just about like just educate them and send them home, but it's very holistic in a way where it's like very emotion-based. I am, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

And I'm a big thing on mental health, I'm a big thing of giving uh your staff the confidence to lead. Yeah, because I don't want CIB to go with me.

unknown 52:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

If I go tomorrow, because we're all one day gonna leave this world, I want CIB to be a legacy and I don't want it to go with me. And in that case, I need to create leaders.

SPEAKER_01 52:27

And uh, I know that your daughter also works with you. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Um, yes, a girl um is my third child. She's my first daughter, and she initially she has always wanted to become a teacher from young, yeah, and she chose to study psychology, and I gave her her first job and I said, Come and work with me. She's like, I don't know what to do. But her um A level was um early years, so she had a background in early years teaching, and then she did a psychology, and now she's finalizing her master's on uh psychology and learning disability. That is amazing. So she's actually an amazing manager, an amazing leader, and I could see her going very, very far in this field. And a lot of the time she said, Hoyo, it is very hard to kind of step into your foot because I feel like you've done so much, but I kind of gave her the platform to lead and all of my staff. I feel like all my staff are leaders in their own right, and that they're all, as I said, all women. No offense to the men, but I felt as a woman leader, I want to give flowers to the woman.

SPEAKER_01 53:45

And Masha, and can you maybe tell me a little bit on how you make that happen? Because you know, like we say people are leaders, but then how do you actually ingrain that into you know, like your staff or even your daughter?

SPEAKER_00 53:57

One of the things I did was um so we we do training every week so that they learn on the job. Yeah, and one of the things, so I did the training for the first couple of weeks, and I said, I want each and everyone to present their own knowledge and train others. So they started to train others, and then what I do is in the class, every classroom has three teachers, obviously, one head teacher and two assistants, and what they do is everyone is responsible for some certain areas. Okay, so everyone is responsibilities responsibilities, and kind of teaching them that you know you own this place, you are part of the team, you need an in a leader, you need grit, you need confidence, and you need kap you know, skills and capacity. And I provide all of that to them. So if I'm no longer here, they will be able to continue. And I always tell them wherever you go, you represent us. So even if you choose to move on with your life and take better opportunities, remember what you learn from here will give you the platform for you to move on. So I actually would love to create my doubles, and that's what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 55:19

It's amazing because a lot of the time, you know, like people are narrow-minded when it comes to especially the training their staff, because they think maybe like I don't want to invest in them so much because who knows where they're gonna go. But I love how you think about it as like, you know, you're investing in people, and that's honestly such a female leader, especially the way they're meant to be, because you lead other people so they can lead their own lives later, not really dependent on what you're doing in your exam organization.

SPEAKER_00 55:47

And wherever they go, who are they supporting? Right? Children. Yeah, that's my vision. My vision is every child to reach their full potential. No matter where you do it, whether they are in my organization, whether they go to another organization, their job is to give flowers to children. And whatever I give them, whatever I teach them, and wherever they go, I feel it's an extension of CIP.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

I love that. So let's um one thing you maybe touched on is uh your coaching. Because even with your leadership and how I see the way you talk about training your staff and you know, like uh getting them to uh to become leaders themselves. Um, how did you get into you told me you're a business coach? Yes, right? So, how did you get into coaching?

SPEAKER_00 56:34

Okay, so when I started my own business, obviously I've been a civil servant all my life. I worked for local authorities in the UK, and then I came to Somalia and worked for the local for the government of Somalia. So we've always been someone who worked for an organization and never built my own thing. So when I started, I didn't have the confidence, I didn't know what to do. I had a passionate and I know what I wanted, but I didn't know the way. So I hired a business coach, and that has opened my eyes. And I also had a mentor. That's why I love doing mentorship and I love doing coaching. And there's two different things. Coaching is all about enabling the individual to think for themselves, and mentorship is a kind of showing and teaching the individual the path that you've taken so that they don't make a mistake. So I do mentor youth and I and coach, and I also do uh uh business coaching. And because I know I struggled and I had to pay thousands and thousands of money to learn the rope, I felt a young entrepreneur's don't go through the opportunity. So now I kind of provide the same uh process for them, for them to be able. So I'm currently, I've actually coaching three um young entrepreneurs, and they're doing really well. One of them is actually a therapist, one of one of them is a financial coach, and another one is a fitness coach. And every time every week when we have the session, they were like, oh my god, I didn't know that I would need to do that. Oh my god. So I I kind of have a practical tools to give them to understand. And I think becoming a business owner, you need to have the grit. And I think a lot of the time no one tells you this is how to run a business. Even the business school, you can read as many books as you want. The practical aspect of running a business is daunting. I can imagine, and for young person who has very little money to start a business, they cannot afford to lose that. And you you kind of um give them that opportunity to kind of create something out of nothing and make something, and I always focus on uh uh business owners, so I don't coach everybody, there's certain businesses that I I choose, and all of that is working with humans. That's the bit that I love coaching on because I feel like working with humans need a different type of leadership.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 59:29

Yeah so with your with your experience on coaching and you know like the leadership, uh what have you learned about mindset and growth through through either coaching or your um I think as a teacher in the UK, one of the things that we have been trained is um and to change is the understanding the difference between fixed mindset and growth mindset. And I love Carol Dweck's um. I was just going to say that because that book amazing. Yeah. So I think a lot of the time when you're setting up a business, you have an idea and you have a vision and you don't see beyond that. We a lot of the time it's like a tunnel division, and a lot of the time we think about, we worry about charging our worth, we worry about what other people think of us, we worry about whether this is gonna fail or succeed. A lot of the time we worry about success.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Success. Fear of success is what is hindering us, actually. A lot of people will tell you, oh, I have a fear of failure. No, you don't. You have a fear of fear of success. Um, so I believe when you want to set up something, you need to have a growth mindset, but also you need to be open to all possibilities. So I really into possibility thinking and not close doors to one way.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:57

One thing I've learned recently is especially in a summit that I recently went to, is the fact that sometimes a lot of people, when they talk about failure, they feel, especially as women, we feel like if something fails, that we fail. But sometimes um looking at failure in a way where like the plan has failed. Yeah, you know, and you can just throw success exactly. You just grow, and maybe that that failure itself is what leads you to success maybe later. You can have a few failures and then be very successful.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:23

I believe failure is a lesson. Is it a real thing? Failure is a stepping stone of success. I do not think successful people have failed the most, yeah, actually. True, because every time things don't work for you, you know what doesn't work, so you try something else. You try something else. So one of the recently I set up a platform and I realized the way we the setup and the who the platform was was not the way we set it up. And it didn't work. Yeah, and it was okay. Because I feel like one pro failed project doesn't determine or or decide the success of other projects that you would eventually build who might be similar but tweaked.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

I love that you talked about like the growth mindset and the fixed mindset because honestly, that is really what makes a difference in your life because how you see things is how they're going to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

And in business, you need to have an abundance mindset. If you have a scarcity mindset, and if you don't invest in yourself, if you don't invest in the things that you do, how would you make a difference to other people's lives?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:40

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

And a lot of the time, women invest on others but not on themselves. And I think the biggest lesson I took from that uh business coach was I invested in myself. And my husband was like, Are you actually gonna hire someone to tell you what to do? You know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

Can you tell me uh maybe how long your coaching was? Like the one that you took the business.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:07

You have a coach. Okay, yeah, because you cannot be a coach without having a coach. Yeah, okay. It's like therapy, it's like it's it you you have to, so now I don't have the intensity. So the inset intensity was about a year.

unknown 1:03:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:21

So I I had a uh four months of one-on-one, and then I had a six months of I think it was about eight to year of a group setting coaching, and now I'm in a group setting coaching. So I actually attend or not live, but listen to my coach every Monday and every Friday, so that I set myself. So every Monday I set the week, I check in, and every Friday I check out, and that's how I'm able to do most things because I'm constantly kind of reorganizing my thoughts and my actions and my plans and my you know uh goals because every quarter I have one big goal and three mini goals. And the reason why I create the mini goals, we need that instant feedback. We're human, yeah. We you know we're not good at you know delayed gratification, it's good, so that's why I have one delayed gratification and then three small ones. I actually set goals on a daily basis. Me too. Because I I get that feedback and I take daily, I have a ticket. Like a little to-do list. So by the end of the working day, I say, Oh, I achieved this much today.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:45

And honestly, that that does a lot for ourselves because when you have those little successes, you feel like you have the capability to go on. Motivate yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:53

And I think I'm a believer of that you can have any coach you want, you can have any mentor you want.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

But at the end of the day, you're the one.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:01

If you're not taking action, you're not gonna succeed.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

So, how do you how do you set up your business coaching? Is it um on a one-to-one basis?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

So, yeah, it's a one-to-one. I haven't done a group yet um because I am quite um engaged. Uh, so what I do one-to-one, 12-week program, start a program where the person has an idea, they want to do business. So you either have a business and you wanna, you know, excel in that, or you just have an idea and you want to take that idea to fruition. And within 12 weeks, you'll have something that you will work with.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:44

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:45

So I normally have a 12 week program uh for the coach, and you you don't have to be a female or male, I take all uh gender, and my vision is that I take you where you are to where you need to be. I like that if you want to continue. As a mentorship program, like support, then I could provide that. Um, but majority of the time, I am one of those uh coaches where I would love my coaches to be independent as possible. So by the time the 12 weeks, I don't want them to need me anymore. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:22

Wow, that's amazing. With your mentorship, because you talk you touched a little bit on mentorship. Yeah. Like, are you very specific on who you take as a mentor?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

At the moment, I only mentor women and youth. So children from 16 to like late 20s and women who either a mother, a young, uh, you know, kind of someone who's struggling with mental health, it doesn't matter. Um, as long as you need to get where, you know, you move from where you are to where you need to be, I am here to mentor you. And the mentorship can be monthly, could be weekly, could be bi-weekly, it depending. So I assess, I always assess. I sometimes refuse to coach people because I feel like they're not ready. And I give them homework to get ready before they come because when you give an investment, I want you you need to get the return of your investment. So I always look at the return on investment and whether you're a youth for mentorship, whether you're a woman who kind of lost and wanting to find a purpose or a path, or whether you are uh you know trying to start business or kind of in the midst of your kind of your early um startup, I always do a discovery call to make sure that I understand where you are, where you need to go, and whether I'm able to help you with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:55

And whether you're the right fit for each other. Yes. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:58

So before they even invest in themselves, we have that connection. They I always ask praise to Kara. You know, pray to God, ask whether you feel like this is the right investment for you because it, you know, I don't want people to not put 200%. I want to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:17

I know a lot of people say I know a lot of people say um everybody needs a therapist, but what I say is everybody needs a coach.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:24

Definitely. And I and I feel like honestly, when you invest in yourself, it's a different kind of feeling. I give you um an example. So when I started Sysend and I hired the coach, it was 20 like early 2020, I think it was late 2021. No, late 2020, early 2021. I think she got on boarded on August 2021. By then, Sissen was a year old. Um, by then I I handled a few hundred thousand US dollar uh funding. And while she was coaching me, I had a bid and it was in the hundredth of thousands. Wow. And so when I bid the money, they gave me an X amount. So I bid the job, what I could do as a consultant from my organization, and they give me account to offer was significantly less than what I asked for. So I went to my coach and I said, I have this thing. This is so this dilemma, what do I do? And she said to me, Suaad, do you think you're worth that? I never forget that. And I said, No, because if I thought I was worth that, I would have asked in the first place. So this is their count offer, this is not what I um bid for. And but my husband was like, It's a huge money we have to take, it's a great opportunity. And she said to me, No, decline it, give them count offer that you're comfortable with.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:09

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:09

And she said, There's only two ways either they will reject you or they will accept you. And she said, if it's meant for you, then accept. If you don't get it, it meant it wasn't for you. Don't devalue yourself. I bid literally 3k less than what I offered. So I give counter offered of less water, but it was a fraction of what they offered of what they offered, and they accepted. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:42

You know, the thing is a lot of people don't know that these people just try you. They just try you, and if you expect.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:48

But when you are ever a business starter, how would you know? Like, how would you know? Exactly. So if it wasn't my coach, you would you would have taken it? I wouldn't be here. And I'm gonna give her a shout out, Lucien. I love you.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:00

So I'm I'm guessing that the the business coaching was through uh it was virtual.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:05

Yes, it was virtual. She's from the UK. Her business is called Lucien Coaching, and she's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:12

So with yours, do you also do it virtual?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:15

Yeah, I do virtual, and if you want one-to-one, I can do also do one-to-one. But I find the virtual actually works better. Because so that with the time and it's structured because I have a teaching background, everything I do is structured, unfortunately. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:29

So, you guys, as I told you before, like I feel like not every I always say this, even though I feel like some people might disagree, but not everybody needs a therapist, but I feel like everybody needs a coach. Because you know, like coaching, it really holds your hand and you know, like tells you a way out of it. And coaching is about if you need to do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:48

Obviously, therapy is for a reason, yes, and coaching is for a reason. I think the difference between therapy and coaching, therapy is you offload, yeah, and obviously you have uh uh tools for them to support with your mental health. So if you're struggling with mental health, by all means. I sometimes people come to me for coaching and I send them for therapy because you need to work on yourself, you need to work on your inner on yourself before you can work on the things that you want to work on. With coaching, it's all about unlocking your potential. So the coach doesn't do anything, honestly. You do the work, but they show you the path, and you need to follow that path. So, and they're an accountable partner, I I support my coaches unlimitedly on WhatsApp. You know, sometimes they send me a message at midnight, and then first thing in the morning I'll be messaging back, telling them, go for it, especially on the latest stages, because it's I do it in three stages. The early stage of you know, kind of figuring themselves out. The second stage is kind of creating the product and kind of loving the product, and the third stage is kind of putting yourself out there. But I one of my coaches at the moment hates video, hates recording things. He's he's an amazing therapist. And without him knowing, I said, Well, why don't you do a minute of video every week? Don't put it out there, just send it to me. Now we are on the seventh week of coaching, and he's actually doing really well. So by next week, we're putting his content out. I love that. And he was like I said, look at day one and look at the difference.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:35

But you see, that's the thing, also. Like, you know, like the more you do things, the better you get at it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:39

Practice makes perfect.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:43

So true. Okay, so um, one thing I would love to know is that when you're mentoring people and or also coaching, what do you think uh what do you see people struggle with the most?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:56

Confidence, uh, belief and they struggle in self-worth. Okay, because a lot of the time when you wanted to build a business, you need to know your work.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:11

You need to know yourself, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:12

And your values a lot of the phase one coaching, I do self-discovery. I love journaling, and I think a lot of the coaches like and I tell people like I will give you the questions, you will figure it out. The answers. We do not give you the answers. Mentorship, on the other hand, find the answers for you. So that's why I love mentoring youth because they don't have a lot of life experience and you can guide them to get where they need to be. But with coaches, it's a lot of questions and a lot of thought-provoking questions for you to be able to figure them, figure yourself and what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:58

So, um, one thing that I want to ask you is what would you say to a woman who knows her potential, but she keeps holding herself back? Start.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:09

Start because you don't know your potential unless you start. And what I would say is stop thinking the outcome. Enjoy the process because a lot of the time what is helding back is the the outcome, because we worry about the outcome a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:30

Yeah, we worry we always worry about the future a lot, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:32

Yes, yeah, and I always say yesterday's gone, there's nothing you can do about it. Tomorrow hasn't come, you got today. You got today. So each day, start a new day and get things done. Learn from yesterday and do better. Do better today and hope for the best for tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:51

I love that. Okay, so um, one last question is if someone wants to step into leadership or build something meaningful, but feels intimidated or unsure, where do you think they should start?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:04

I think they need to start leading themselves because unless you lead yourself, you cannot lead others. You need to be able to be having accountability of yourself, um completing tasks, be accountable to yourself, discipline, discipline, and getting things done because you are a role model. The whole idea of leadership is how you behave and what you do, not what you say.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:34

Yeah, because the thing is, you know, like what builds your food portfolio, it's what you've done, and that's just proof of concept, even to you personally, even to me, honestly, me myself, like every single time when I look back and I see the things that I've done, I'm like, wow, okay, if I've already done this, in your younger life, you've done a lot. Thank you so much for being here. Honestly, I feel like this is such a beautiful conversation, and I've learned so much too. Um, do you want to give maybe the audience or anybody listening out there a putting shot or an advice?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:05

I think my biggest advice to women and youth is to believe in yourself. Do not wait for others to validate you. Yeah, do not wait people to give you flowers. Give yourself flowers, give yourself the validation that you seek from others. What you uh oo from yourself, the confidence and the belief uh in yourself is what others will see.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:37

And especially as a woman, I think as women, a lot of the time we we we wait for people to tell us that we're doing great.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:45

And don't wait people to tell you what to do. Get it done. I think people pleasing is a woman's biggest struggle. Strength. Strength. Don't. That's like it's a weakness. So we are so policing other people.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:02

Learn to say no to things that do not fit you or like align with your vision.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:10

Yeah, learn to say no because I think I struggled with saying no. The day I've learned how to say no, the things that doesn't uh align with myself is the day that I went up, and I think find a circle that elevates you.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:32

Honestly. You need to repeat that because I highly, highly stand for that.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:38

Yes, you need to find a circle that elevates you, you're the average of the five people you spend time with. So choose wisely.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:47

Very much so. I always tell this to women like the people that you are around either lift you up or put you down. Or put you down.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:55

Really, you are the average. If you're hanging out with the millionaires, you will eventually become a millionaire.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:00

Okay, let me tell you something. Um when I the first episode that I did on uh cultured voices, and I hope you guys remember because one of the things that I said is that one big reason why I'm also doing this is for me to surround myself with incredible women people. Amazing. So every single for me, it's very, very it's such a personal thing for people who come and join me with these conversations because I want to be able to surround myself. And honestly, I feel like my circle now is so elevated. And I masha'la Tabarakala. And I'm honestly one of the things that I'm very, very proud of is the people who have around me because I have visionaries, like people who are incredible doing like already so acute. Girl, if I'm sitting next to you, I probably did something great with myself, you know. Thank you so much. So honestly, it's such a such a pleasure having you here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:48

Yeah, I really, really appreciate being here. Yeah, and I feel like um you need to start. My podcast, Inclusive Talk Africa, has been on the shelf for five years, and this year is coming out. So learn from me. Don't put things on the shelf, get it out, start.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:07

Yeah, my mashallah. I feel like for you, you've been putting it on the shelf because you have other things going on.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:12

Yeah, so I think we will I never prioritize it, but I feel like 2026 is all about presence for me. And that's you know, I feel like attending podcasts, hosting a podcast enables you to meet amazing people.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:31

Plus, honestly, I feel like um there's also a gentleman, a great Somali gentleman. Uh, hopefully I will still convince him to come on the podcast one time. Amazing gentleman, mashallah, um, that is also also um worked for the Somali government once. Such an incredible leader. Every time I sit with him, honestly, I feel like, oh masha'Allah, this is a great person to learn from. And one of the things I told him is like, you're gonna die with your with your knowledge, you know, if you don't actually go out there and actually tell people what you've learned and so that people can learn from you. I actually encourage him to write a book. I told him. I think that's something that I'm really aspiring to. So then like, write a book so that we can learn from you. Because you know, a book is something that you can literally share to the masses without being present. Yeah, so I kept on telling him, like, please, like, get something out there so we can learn from you because he's such an amazing mashal, very accomplished person. Yeah, and I feel like when it comes to you, it I'm so proud of the fact that you actually want to be out there now because the woman I'm seated here next to is something somebody that I would also myself want to learn from. Thank you so much. I think like your leadership skills, the way you carry yourself is so beautiful and would love like a lot of people to attend to you. I think I got it for my mom.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:42

My mom has been an incredible leader, and I feel like you know, uh being a daughter of an Imam and I'm Aden who always leads people, and uh, you know, the daughter of a businesswoman who, you know, despite having a lot of children, yeah, still worked. Yeah, I think that is something that has given me the opportunity on the platform to be who I am. And I am so looking forward to inspiring and making the change of the youth tomorrow and the mothers of yesterday. Inshallah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:20

No, thank you so much for being here. You guys, if you want to learn more about Sa'ad, go follow her on her um channels, inshaAllah. I will put them below. I will let you know where you can find her on Instagram and stuff, inshallah. And if you're a parent, please go ahead and check out CIP or also, inshallah, come. Thank you so much. We look forward to seeing. I think I would love to come and see because you see.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:42

We'll invite you to the lunch of the sort. Please do.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:45

So, you guys, if you have any more questions for Suaad, please drop them in the comment section. Or inshaAllah, you can just message me on uh my Instagram, which is the Fatima Edit or the Cultured Voices Podcast Instagram. And Suaad Abdullah is just Suad Abdilleh. Suaad Abdullah, that's yeah on Instagram, insha'Allah. But I'll also push, I'll also put it on the description box.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:06

Thank you so much. You're welcome. It's a pleasure to be here and either watching or listening to your uh family, cultured voices family. Thank you so much for having me, and I'm so looking forward to your success because you're an incredible young woman.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:24

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:24

And I can see your leadership will take you far. Oh, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:28

It honestly feels it's so great to hear that from you.

unknown 1:23:32

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:32

Yeah, it looks like you probably have done something great in my life already.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:36

I wouldn't be here if I didn't think that you deserve my presence. Oh, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:42

That's a very that's an honor. Well, okay, you guys, uh, that's it. Thank you so much for being here until the end. If you have not subscribed, please go ahead and subscribe. If you've liked this conversation, please do like it and share it with your circles, inshallah, so they can learn from the amazing Sahad. Until next time, as salamu alaikum. Alaikum asalam