Futureproof by Xano
Futureproof by Xano is a podcast for technical builders, entrepreneurs, and engineering leaders who want to stay ahead of what’s next.
Hosted by Xano’s CEO & Co-Founder Prakash Chandran, each episode features conversations with innovators and industry experts who are shaping the future of technology, business, and product development.
Futureproof by Xano
Building an AI-Native Enterprise — George Bock, Generali Global Assistance
How do you prepare a decades-old enterprise for an AI-native future?
In this episode of Futureproof, Xano CEO Prakash Chandran talks with George Bock, CIO at Generali Global Assistance, about what it takes to modernize an enterprise when the technology landscape is moving faster than ever. George shares lessons from a career of leading complex transformations — from cloud migrations and legacy system retirements to M&A integrations — and why the fundamentals of people, data, and communication still matter more than any single tool. Together, they break down how leaders can build AI-ready teams, create strong data foundations, mitigate organizational risk, and navigate the human side of change without losing momentum.
Topics covered include:
- Human-centered transformation: Why the first step in any AI initiative is aligning teams, breaking silos, and strengthening communication.
- Data before disruption: How clean, governed, high-quality data becomes the foundation for every effective AI system.
- Upskilling for an AI era: How to prepare teams for the shift in skills, roles, and decision-making that AI introduces.
- Risk, governance, and vendor trust: What enterprise leaders should look for when evaluating AI tools, partners, and security postures.
The future enterprise: Why AI will flatten org structures, automate mid-level decision work, and create new hybrid workflows between humans and agents.
Episode ID: 18296467-building-an-ai-native-enterprise-george-bock-generali-global-assistance
Subscribe to Futureproof wherever you get your podcasts.
From Xano - The fastest way to create a production-ready backend for any app or agent. Xano unifies AI speed, code control, and visual clarity, so you never trade reliability for velocity. Sign up for free today.
When you think about where AI is going in the context of its capabilities, uh it's learning all the time, it's being able to do more critical thinking. And so as that happens, it's gonna reach that that superagency uh level. I think a lot of those mid-level decision makings and orchestrations and things that we take for granted today with with much of the IT staff is is gonna change um and possibly even be removed. What does that mean?
SPEAKER_00:Hello, welcome to Future Proof. My name is Perkash Chundred and I'm the CEO of Xeno. Today I'm joined by George Bach, a seasoned technology leader who spent the last 20 years helping enterprises modernize their tech foundations from cloud migrations and MA integrations to building global IT teams. Now, as CIO at Generali Global Assistance, he's focused on preparing organizations for an AI native future with systems that are scalable, resilient, and human-centered. Welcome, George. Thanks for having me, Prakash. It's a pleasure. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about your background leading up to what you do today.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'd love to. My background certainly is an interesting uh group of twists and turns. Um, you know, funny enough, I I uh I started my career uh really not even in IT. Um I was in more of an accounting, finance, and operations kind of role. Um I found my way into uh IT really through a project as the uh business owner. Um and and one thing that I learned that's really kind of carried me throughout my career is that line between what um what what's needed and and what's produced, right? And so uh as I've gone through my career, I've I've taken the opportunity to uh also uh enjoy the opportunity to be in multiple industries. And so uh being in multiple industries, I've I've had a chance to see everything, spent a lot of time in manufacturing, and then also in you know, deploying ERP systems and software industry, uh, all the way up through to now I'm in you know kind of the insurance uh space. So um each of those kind of roles through my career has uh helped me uh continue to to grow, learn more, but then also apply uh what I've learned to that new new uh new company. So then even in there, I also took a stint uh as as an entrepreneur to start my own thing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you did. And one of the things also by way of background is you were a psychology major, is that right?
SPEAKER_02:I was, yes, which is an unusual thing for most uh college technologists or CIOs, but uh honestly I use that uh all the time because my my whole goal there was about learning how to interact and work with people, lead people, um, and then make better business decisions. And I always had my my my technicals uh bend to my my background too, but uh yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I want to dig more into that, but before I do, maybe you can talk a little bit about the role you hold today and like what your like broader charter is.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so um I'm CIO for the North America Business Unit of a very large financial services and insurance company based out of Italy. My division is based out of out of Paris, and so we've been experiencing uh rapid growth in the travel uh insurance space, and we we kind of do a couple things. Um we we are an insurance company, first and foremost, but we're also a technology uh focused company too, because we we are um in the middle of the buying path of those products that we sell to uh some very large online travel agents such as uh you know Expedia, all the way down to small uh online travel providers. Um and so uh it's been a it's been an interesting journey because uh we're we're tackling a lot of change and we're embracing technology to do that, but at the same time, too, we're dealing with lots of growth pains. Um and so it's it's been uh it's been a fun journey here for the first couple years uh in this role. But uh it's been a lot of fun too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, looking at your background, um you've kind of led a lot of different types of transformations, right? Like um cloud migrations, MA, MA integrations, legacy systems or retiring legacy systems. I'm curious, like you know, digital transformation is kind of this term that is so generalized and means different things. But for you and everything that you've learned in each one of these uh, I guess roles in your life, what are some common themes that you're seeing? And what do you bring to bear uh in those lessons here at Generali today?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, uh a great uh kind of opening uh part of this discussion. I think you know, I I'm with you. The digital transformation term, uh we've been doing digital transformation as CIOs for years, right? It's just now now the term is um is uh focused on the fact that we we are digitizing assets as well, I think. Um but in reality, you know, we're following a lot of the same principles that I've followed at every company, no matter what the size has been. And so as the technology landscapes are changing, uh you know, innovation you know, kind of has to be at the core of your DNA as you're moving along there, um, at with the technology of uh we'll say the time. Um each of those transformations uh has always been about growth, speed to market, you know, revenue, uh, and then and retaining customers uh to continue the sustainability of your of your company. Uh and and so um that has not changed. Uh and then likewise we're always worrying about budget and and costs, and we have to make sure we're managing it within our abilities and capabilities. Um and so I'd say that the the last thing that um you know we're all kind of bound by is we're also only as good as that last customer interaction. So our job is to create those teams and those capabilities that satisfy both your internal and your external customers, and in some cases, even with MA activity. And we're bringing in a new company, we're carving out a company, and we're we're merging that in, you want to make that that those new employees and that new business units welcome and able to hit the ground as fast as they possibly can run it. So uh those are really some important aspects, I think, to the digital transformation um question. I think you know today when when when we all think of digital transformation, AI is clearly at the forefront, automation clearly at the forefront, data and data science and capabilities clearly at the forefront. Um but I think we're also starting to see, not that it wasn't in the in the minds of everybody over the last 20, 25 years, but you know, how are you going to be a disruptor in your space? Uh, I think is really important. I think one of the exciting things that we're seeing is that the ability to be a disruptor is just magnified today. It has it has grown um to a very fast pace with some of these new technologies that are now arising. And um, you know, I think that's that's kind of one of the very fun parts that uh that I think we all have to look forward to in the in the coming you know months, years ahead. Um you still gotta do all the traditional things you've done, don't get me wrong. Um you know, you've got to define your vision and your strategy, and you've gotta have the right people. Uh, and if you don't have the right people, or you do have the right people, but they just need new skills, you've got to train them. If you don't have the right people, you gotta find the right people, which we're all trying to do. Um, I think the the key is also around key processes and that foundation of why you're actually doing the transformation in the first place, um, and having strong uh communication um and governance around the technology you select, why you selected it, um, and then you know, measure, you know, cut measure twice and cut once, kind of thing, right? Yeah. And you don't want to be redoing stuff. And that's that's really the kind of stuff that I've learned that I carry through in every transformation. I and I really don't see that changing. It's gonna continue, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_00:For sure. And I I do want to dig into the AI piece of this, but first I want to cover just like the human-centricity um piece of the way you've approached things, and you kind of mentioned before with your psychology background, a lot of your work has been about uniting teams, like business teams with technology teams, making sure that those transitions are are fundamental before anything else. Maybe you can speak to that because so often I hear about like agility and some of the KPIs that you're you're talking about. But in a world before AI, when you think about like having teams gel and work well together to create that agility and that transformation, what does that look like? And what what has been foundational to you uh to do that successfully?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, um really good question. I think uh there's there's a couple different ways that I've looked at this. Um and certainly I think when when you're a new uh CIO coming into a new company, um you know it's even heightened even further. But I I think you know, teams um uh when when they look at what what we're gonna modernize, what we're gonna change, how we're gonna shift foundations, um you know, ultimately it's it's how do you break down some of those traditional silos that have existed. Uh, and and they always exist there. Uh and and that then boils down to how are we gonna collaborate? And again, I'm gonna you're probably gonna hear me say this a couple times, so I apologize. Communication is is so critical. Um I I think that regular communication and being able to share the vision, the knowledge, and and build an understanding of what those roles and what those teams need to do is really important. And and and that should stem largely from the business strategy, not from what my strategy is, just as the CIO, but what is the business trying to achieve, right? Where are they trying to get to? And I've found over and over and over, those teams, especially maybe earlier in my career, um they've they've been kind of left out of the loop, right? And not really looked as part of the value change and the strategic uh value uh brought to the to the company. And I think that's definitely changed now. So I I've always made it a point to understand what the team's capabilities are, um, not just when I first start at a new role, but also my entire tenure there, because it changes. We got to invest in those people. Um and and be able to really make sure that they have um the skill sets and the tools that they need to achieve the goals that they are trying to achieve, not the goals that I want them to achieve necessarily, but you know, what is it, the things that is important to them? And if when you when you finally do that, I've found that it's it's helped you break through some of those silos very quickly because that team is now really engaged and they're they're they own part of that uh that vision and that strategy and that that place that you're trying to go to. So that's that's important. I think today you know finding some some of the skill sets, whether you're cloud native uh or or not, I think uh is also becoming more and more challenging. Um so you know, we're always on the hunt for good people, like I know you are and every other company out there. Right. Um I think you know, another kind of interesting take too is you know, as you sort of modernize and you build that global team structure, uh I always like I have to find people that I I would say are going to be core. They're our kind of right hand in nature, but they're also the the folks that can help be ambassadors up to where you're going uh and and carrying that vision and carrying some of that water out into the fields there to help uh you know the seeds grow. So um I think it's important to highlight that, and I think it's important that you also regularly you kind of keep tabs on on what the team's doing. Are they getting burned out? Obviously, we don't want that. Um but even as you have that core team mentality with new projects, I've always felt it was important to say, hey, even though you're not involved in say that new shiny tool or technology that we're gonna be moving, you are you still have a purpose and you're helping keep the business going and driving forward. And so um that that that's a really important tact to any team uh dynamic, in my opinion, is that everybody needs to know their purpose and where they're going, and then you gotta foster them to to have a good time doing it. Uh I I think you know you mentioned that uh you know you you kind of saw uh another uh podcast that I did, which was around kind of uh the career side of things, but have fun doing what you're doing, right? And you'll go far.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that um there's that human centricity piece that I think is so important, especially in this new world of AI that uh we're entering into. Because I do think that so much is changing. Um and part of the reason why we started this podcast to begin with is to try to find the signal and the noise, uh, especially with learners like you that have to navigate these big transformations that have to keep other people first. But the tooling now is frankly something that can maybe be a little intimidating and scary, and frankly, just very just um opaque. Like how how do you adopt it and how do you think about it? So I think one of the things I'd love to get into is you know, one of your charters uh at Generale is to try to figure out okay, well, how do how do we take this organization and move it into this AI native future? And I'm curious, just at a high level, what does that mean for you? Um I think like a lot of people are trying to think through this. And I would love just to hear your initial thoughts around number one, when you really knew this charter was important and how you started unpacking and thinking about it, given all of the frameworks around how you deal with people and transformations that we just talked about before.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, you know, fortunately, um we've had a very clear directive uh from our global CEO who has been really telling us we need to embrace uh this this technology, um, which is which is I think really important. Um when you've got your senior leadership and your senior most leader that is driving you, um, you know, you you tend to push push pretty hard. And I think the the key thing for for all of us is that you no longer can be sitting there um saying, well, you know, I know there's this AI thing that's out there, and it's you know, it may turn into something or not. I I think we're well beyond that at this point. We we have to be asking with every problem that comes up, with every project, every question, every business objective, can AI help solve that? And if so, how? Um, and start to embed that really into the culture uh uh of IT, but certainly the culture of the business. Um that's that is a scary proposition, too, because as you probably know, uh you know, the media, the market, the stock market, um just the direction of where things are going are constantly saying this is you know going to you know uh disrupt the workplace and people's jobs and lives, which okay, very very well it it will. But at the same time, too, it's going to elevate many people to do different new things, more value-generated things and things that they weren't even contemplating that they could do. And so I think as as we're thinking about it, it's been two years already since we started our you know really heavy focus on it with some pilots and with POCs. Um we we started contemplating the idea do you build versus buy? Um, and and we started down the process of building too, and you quickly find that um that's a difficult challenge, right? And and uh I think uh an important part for me, anyways, is I want to leverage companies, and you know your company is a great example. That's your if it's your core business, right? Leverage the folks that are doing it 24-7 and extend it, but don't try to reproduce it per se. Um and so uh I think that's that's an important part of the new AI uh universe. Um there's also components to it that you know, frankly, we don't know where we're gonna go or where it's gonna lead us to, which creates some uh aversion to to to testing and trying. But I think if you're not doing those things, you're gonna quickly realize that you might not be able to catch up.
SPEAKER_00:So totally. There's there's actually two pieces that I want to unpack a little bit. The first is kind of an upskilling piece, like to your point, really making sure people are like, look, we need to start embracing this technology and how can it help us work better, faster, more efficiently? Uh, and then the second one is like, how do we think about implementing it to then provide business value? So maybe starting with the upskilling piece, you've obviously been involved in upskilling, reducing attrition throughout your career. With this kind of AI mandate, how have you viewed um introducing this to the teams that you manage and oversee?
SPEAKER_02:Well, uh I, you know, I have so I I regularly have uh ITL hands meetings for one. So uh I think it was I was probably six months into this role where one of the things that I had put out there was you got to start thinking about this now. And I want to start seeing people come to me directly with ideas and thoughts around where do you think that that AI can um help us? Where do you think you see opportunities? And I was thinking largely from just my own team and how we operate, so it's still fairly new to the to the to the org, but then also you know, our operations team has taken uh uh really heavy deep dive into uh how they're going to streamline customer service, claims, etc. And so uh making sure that my team was was well aware of that was first. But you know, I go back to what I just said, it it was start to instill a cloud first, an AI first, a uh a new tech first kind of uh point of view uh with the team. So it's not just thrown on top and then they go, Well, I I didn't even know this was coming, I I couldn't prepare. Um so the communication part out to your team and really understanding what that team's capabilities uh can do, I think is is so critically important because um you want that um you want that team and you want those skills that are really critical to come to fruition, whether you develop them internally or in some cases, yeah, you do have to bring in other folks. Um I'll give you an example of one thing that uh we just recently did as an extension of this multi-year journey we've been on with kind of changing our organization. I had my leadership uh have an off-site just recently, and I asked them, I want you to do a SWOT analysis of your team. Where where do you feel we are at? Where do you feel we're going to be? And how are we going to ensure that we can embrace the new technology uh landscapes that that we're that we're moving towards, right? Um, and then what things do we see that we we we don't have that we need? Um and I'd say last thing last but not least, don't be afraid to move those pieces of the puzzle around a little bit because you do learn about uh a lot of a lot of things that you might not have known about what your team was capable of doing if you just kind of pigeonhole. So um I I've traditionally throughout my career done a lot of that uh where I'm settled and then like kind of see that maybe this makes more sense with having this person or that person take on some new things and see where that takes us. So does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00:That totally makes sense. And I think uh that the SWOT analysis and kind of the self-reflection around like hey, let's let's take like a current assessment and inventory of how things are going with the team, and uh especially with these new toolings, whether it's AI or not, how can we how can we be better? Um yeah, that's definitely impactful.
SPEAKER_02:It was eye-opening, honestly. It was a very good exercise. Yeah. And and to be honest, I don't know, I don't know how many teams do that anymore. Yeah, but it's always been a really, really uh valuable tool and insights and it it it spawns more conversation.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. So just outside of um just that uh efficiency that that reflection can bring, what is your like thought or your point of view around like where AI is actually having impact within an organization like yours? Because it sounds like there's a lot of discovery that's happening right now. You're making sure there's obviously the executive mandate um from your CEO, yourself to your teams, uh, some experimentation, but where are you seeing signal or threads that you want to pull on more that you're very excited about?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, um, you know, make no doubt about it. There I think the the the enterprise kind of landscape um is not gonna look the same a year from now as it does today. So um I I think we're seeing already how uh it's starting to kind of get revolutionized in the process automation front. Um I think we're seeing how uh organizations are are are really enabling how to streamline themselves, um, obviously boosting productivity and and we're all trying to get to unlocking kind of new efficiencies, only doing it at a scale. And so, you know, I think those are are um are really starting to to make an impact. Um I I do think that um we're gonna start to quickly see us evolve beyond that, though. Um and and we're having conversations, I know, uh on our side now about you know how do we kind of cross over the different uh bridges into the inner relationships between our functional areas um and with our customers? They're pushing us. Um and and so I think I think kind of going back to the team, um as we talk about those those uh uh opportunities, I'm asking myself, are our teams ready and able to focus on kind of that higher value uh proposition if we start to introduce some of those new AI capabilities? Uh and that's where I think we have an opportunity to also uh uh grow the capabilities of our existing teams to to kind of work in in harmony with the AI uh agents and with the automation processes. Um and you know, I I kind of think that's that's the next evolution. Um I think the market itself is telling you where they're going. Uh so I I I pay close attention to what what are what what what are the companies that are developing the tooling doing? What are the companies that are, I'd say, the the early adopters doing, the large enterprises doing? And you're seeing a huge, huge amount of investment. Um and I heard somewhere recently, I was indeed, you know, we might hit globally like$375,$400 billion of investment on AI infrastructure and tools alone. And I don't see that stopping. So what's that tell you? That tells you that um this isn't hype, it's not going away. And and if you think back 20 years, um we all were sitting there where the market was telling you, well, you're gonna have these little phones and you're gonna be able to basically do what you do on your laptop and your desktop. Um, and we're all going, ah, there's no way. You know, that's that's light years away from where we're at. Well, here we are, our phones are more powerful than our those computers used to be, and we're we can't live without it now. And it's an integral component to our our capabilities. And so that's where that's where this uh market is taking us. Um and you've got to be reading those tea leaves to start to say, I better start planning for that and and and and make sure that we're building it because those capabilities, I mean, you see it probably faster than I do, but it's exponentially growing. Um and it's growing so fast, it's almost it's almost impossible to keep up with, um, and it's overwhelming. So I would say hone in on those those really high impact um, you know, maybe use cases or things that you say this is going to make uh an impact and start and and and go from there. Um, but it it's it's gonna be a wild ride.
SPEAKER_00:Um I mean, speaking of the use cases, do you have any like generalized advice? Like if another CIO is listening to this, and there's so many places where you know AI could have impact. Is there something where you're like, hey, this is a great low-hanging fruit place for you to start potentially solving with AI? What would you recommend?
SPEAKER_02:I I mean I think the the obvious one is going to be in customer service. Um uh and and and it doesn't have to be externally facing customer service. I think you could look internally, uh, by the way, even with NIT, how we support our end users. Um there is so much wasted time uh that exists in so many processes, um, but you know, there's also so much wasted time trying to find the answer when AI honestly can do that at you know lightning fast and give you the most current, most frequent and uh objective um you know answer that that you need. Um so I think customer service is honestly it's it's a no-brainer. Um because then those customer service people, instead of fumbling around trying to find an answer or type an email, which again, like copilot and and many other tools that are out there uh enable you to do. But I don't I don't truly think that uh enough people are are are playing with it and and understand just how impactful and how much time is wasted on a daily basis across uh an organization. Um so uh I I would say if you're a CIO, look internally, look at yourself. Honestly, look there first.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I've heard it goes into the self-reflection piece and understanding like the real metrics around you know time uh potentially wasted in trying to figure these things out. You mentioned the uh customer uh support or success just internally. I've heard this before, this internal knowledge base that just makes it really easy for people to look for the information that they're trying to find very quickly without fumbling, right? And that can just reduce so much time. So much time.
SPEAKER_02:And and I'm sure you've seen it, uh, I've seen it over and over and over and over in every business I've been a part of, especially established companies that have been around a while, they got silos of stuff everywhere, right? Some of which, much of which is duplicative, um, but also outdated, right? And so wading through that minutiae of what is the right answer, what is the current answer, and what is the best approach, um, I just show is a phenomenal opportunity for for any company, right? And and you know, that's that's something that uh until you dig in and you start doing that retro, you know, kind of reflective, retrospective uh analysis, uh sometimes you just you're looking right at it and you don't see it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I think another thing that I uh that is related that I wanted to talk to you about is when you were at Soul Technologies, a lot of your focus was on like data hygiene and making sure that data was clean and so much of what AI needs is information. So it feels like There's a prerequisite to leveraging these tools around data hygiene before you can even start layering on AI. Maybe you can speak to that a little bit.
SPEAKER_02:You're speaking my language right there. I mean, data is such a foundational component to AI today. That you know, we've we've all been trying to make sure that we can use and put data in the hands of the people that need it when they need it, how they need it, to make the best business decision possible. Today, um, let's face it, uh AI is is is is not the panacea. It's not gonna just, I plugged it in and now it's gonna solve my problem. So the the problems get solved and it learns by having good, clean data at its fingertips. And so I I you know, yes, we've made great strides uh in in prior companies, Soltec and Anchor and COFAX, etc. Um, but uh each time it boils down to data governance, identifying your data, um, eliminating silos, mastering your data, data definitions, data hierarchies. Um and if we don't feed that engine with uh a really strong solid foundation, my worry, and I'm sure the worry of many other folks in our seats, is that AI can actually do a lot of damage uh as well, right? And so that then bleeds you off into well, okay, well, how do you prevent that and how do you how do you foster good use of AI and the ethics around it and you know frameworks, etc. Um, but uh I mean we're we're undertaking the same uh endeavor currently here. It's about let's make sure we're we're producing that solid foundation, um, not not just for AI, but all overall for all of our analytics, et cetera. So uh it and it's and it's if you can't tell, it's one of those topics that actually I'm kind of passionate about. I I really, really strongly believe if you're if you have a good data foundation, um, you solve a lot of lot of problems that you probably are facing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think I mean it's kind of as the saying goes, garbage in, garbage out. And I think that people don't people do not realize the importance of that data hygiene and getting it set up so the AI has the information um that it needs to help you, right? And I think um you kind of mentioned, I think, uh in engaging with these different tools that the if you don't do it in the right way, the AI can actually do damage. And I wondered like how you think about that, because a lot of uh your responsibility is around risk mitigation. So when you're talking, so whether it's build versus buy, how are you thinking about risk mitigation in a world where the AI does have access to a lot of things? Like, do you have any ways that you're thinking about engaging with vendors or different tools or new types of security measures that you're implementing? Anything you can share there?
SPEAKER_02:Um well, it it it's a it's a it's a broad topic. Um you know, and I would say any vendor we we engage with now, um we are we are doing uh as most companies, a lot of companies probably are, a much, much more thorough kind of validation of their capabilities related to their security posture, um validating and proving that they are uh you know certified, they have their SOC compliance, their NIST certified, they're uh whatever. Um and you know, if if you're not there, um you know you're you're kind of disqualified. And so, you know, that that's kind of the first thing with the vendors. I think the other side of the vendor equation is is um, you know, the ones that you do work with, partner with, um, I think that the next phase of that is is how do they help uh further your your strategic vision, right? And and how do you embed them into the process so they are now uh is kind of as an extension of your own team, right? They they are the team that that gives you that expertise, perhaps that that you you you can't hire, uh you don't need to hire, it's not your core kind of capability, whatever. Um, and so for me, uh ensuring that we have a framework around okay, how are we going to function, how are we going to operate, how are we going to measure success, um, how are we going to ensure that you still do your part as a as a as a partner with keeping up with compliance and regulatory needs and security needs, and you know, we're all being just bombarded 24-7 by the outside trying to get in. Um and so uh it's it's it's uh it's it's a it's a complicated question. And then when you add in AI uh and and potentially uh you know how AI could we'll say trickle out into uh all the different respective crevices of data points and areas within your enterprise, um it can certainly expose weaknesses, it can certainly expose data to people who should not see it, it can expose secrets, it could expose the outside to the inside world, which you absolutely do not want to have, and and heaven forbid you expose PII or PHI. Um it's it it it's kind of the thing that keeps me up at night, frankly. Um as much power and as much good we have the potential to see, uh, there's a lot of risk that that that uh also is inherent. That um you you have to be talking with your board, with your leadership, with the executive staff constantly about it, because it's also changing very fast. And and uh I think that's the important part too, talking to vendors. I want you as a vendor and partner to be keeping me abreast of some of the stuff that I'm not gonna read in a journal or on a blog or whatever, too.
SPEAKER_00:So so yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And and speaking uh about those vendors, there are so many new tools are coming onto the market so fast. And I think to your point, around doing your diligence, around making sure they have the right security posture and also are going to be the right partner for you long term is is so important. So I mean, I I I think to that end, I'd love to hear are there any emerging tools or platforms that have passed that test that are catching your attention, that you're interested in um evaluating is something that might actually be able to help within your organization?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, uh well, that's that's a that's a tough question because every time I think I've found one that uh is the you know a way to go, another one pops up that I was like, holy crap, that that was unexpected. So um I I I would say I I don't have um like oh these are the must-haves. What I what I what I can tell you is that we're always on the lookout for uh the ones who are are presenting um solutions or at least uh talking to the the world that they can help solve solutions that I have. Uh and in fact, this is this is kind of how we we got engaged with Xena, right? Uh and how we've started to learn about what your capabilities are. Um so you know, I think Lindy is one that recently uh has been an interesting no-code platform that I thought was, oh, this is a way to kind of custom create your AI agents but still handling really complex flows and um problems that that we have that um doesn't really require a super, super heavy technical uh you know kind of um capability. I think um you know gum loop is is an interesting automation tool, specific to the marketing kind of use cases, which um you know we all get hit by marketing stuff constantly, so maybe I shouldn't be promoting the marketing side because it'll just you know foster more stuff coming at us. But I think the the the fun part about that, if you want to call it that, is that you know how do you how do you uh tap into all of that intelligence and data that's out there? And my God, I mean there's so much data out there that um I think businesses have opportunities to really improve what they're how what they're selling, what they're sending, how they're communicating, how they're connecting. That that one just looked intriguing uh because it's also talking about you know connecting LLMs with internal kind of flows, etc., which I thought was kind of novel. But uh, you know, as much as I think those are the cool ones, tomorrow I'm gonna read something else and be like, well, that goes in the trash, and now I got something definitely I gotta worry about or think about. So um and that's and that and and honestly, I think for for those of us in this this world, it it's almost one of the fun parts about our jobs is that we're we're on the cusp of just some really amazing technological advances um that uh you know can kind of make you really question the status quo, think differently, which I always try to push people to do, you gotta be thinking differently. But just um, you know, watching it too is kind of kind of fun. So I don't know, we'll see what tomorrow brings.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, that uh that makes a lot of sense. You know, you you said something earlier about um kind of the war for talent, and I wanted to just touch briefly on like kind of the talent equation in this age of AI. Um how do you think about like skill sets or mindsets that people need to have in order to be valuable in this market, especially as you think about building your own team and upskilling your own team? What are what are some of the frameworks or things that you think about that uh are just critical uh moving into the era?
SPEAKER_02:So when I think of talent, it's it's an interesting topic because uh I just had another conversation on a different podcast about this very topic. And uh I do worry a little bit about the fact that we are spinning through a lot of cycles uh uh when we're evaluating um candidates because they are now producing unicorns on paper, right? But the problem that I'm really struggling with, and I think I know my team, and I'm sure many other teams struggle with, is when you start to talk about what's on that paper, there's no substance there. And so um we are always trying to drive towards understanding uh, yes, what's your technical um capabilities? Do you really have the skills that you said you you have? I'm looking for attitude and aptitude always, um, because let's face it, you're not gonna know everything I need. I just need to know that I can get you into the zone that I need you to get to. Um but we're all we're all looking for the that same talent right now. Um and uh I I think I think we're gonna all face a bit of a shortage here over the first couple of years, the next couple years, because it doesn't necessarily exist yet. Uh and you know, the we'll say the frameworks of of how people can get educated, even the even this the educational component in colleges and high schools, we're just starting to see full curriculums that are geared right at AI. And and and there's new ones all the time. But two years ago, you heard a little bit about it. It was it was something that people were thinking about, but it's it's accelerated so quickly that I think we've got some catch up to do. And so the fight for talent is is brutal, uh honestly. Um and we're all struggling with it. Um so we'll see where it lands.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think you're you're bringing up an important point, and this is something I was talking to someone earlier about, where we're kind of in this space where people are sacrificing skill development for speed. And to your point, they'll put together this unicorn framework or um or resume. And then once you go into the nuances or details, they haven't quite learned it yet, so they can't speak to it. And so I think of the uh you know, something important I'm pulling away is like, you know, uh take your time. Like, yes, leverage AI can be an amazing boon and hugely beneficial to help you learn, but make sure that you learn it, right? And so if you're interrogated about it and you're asked about it, you can speak.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and and I I I think because we're at that point in time I'd rather you be honest with me about where exactly you are. And if I see the potential in you, I'm gonna develop you, right? I I I will invest in you. Uh, and that doesn't mean just external, but internal people too on on your teams. Um, and I and I think that's an important thing because you just kind of hit the nail on the head. We want speed, we want it, but we want it yesterday. But our velocity to be able to look to deliver in today's uh environment is not, you know, we're not hitting on all cylinders yet. So we have some ramp up period to get there. And uh as much as, don't take this the wrong way, as much as our vendors are always saying we can do it today, I know you can't, because you're in the same kind of boat. You can do an awful lot more, but a year from now, those products are going to be uh you know rock solid and improved in ways that um you know we were hoping to see today. So it's a journey. It's I I like to think of it, you know, this is a marathon. Um, this is not just a single sprint 40-yard dash that we're trying to all get to, and then it's all hey, we're all good. No, we're we're far from there. Yeah, and and I guarantee you, five years from now, uh ten years from now, we'll be going, wow, I didn't see that one coming.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, well, that that's that's kind of where I wanted to close. You know, this is future-proof, and we're you know thinking about looking ahead. I wanted to ask if you had to make one bold prediction about how AI will reshape enterprise IT in the next five to ten years, what would that be?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's a scary one. Um, and and I I'm sure that um many people who who listen to this probably will be going, okay, uh maybe I maybe I gotta make some changes, but I think I think AI, um, like we said, it's gonna transform how we how we operate. There's no no two ways around it. Um I think what we're gonna see is that much of what we'll consider that middle ground of many IT organizations is going to start to get whittled away. Um and and uh you know something we haven't really talked about, but when you when you think about where AI is going in the context of its capabilities, uh it's learning all the time, it's it's it's becoming more uh more, I don't want to say human-like, but ultimately it will get there, right? And it's it's it's being able to do more critical thinking. And so as that happens, it's gonna reach that that superagency uh level where I think a lot of those mid-level decision makings and orchestrations and and um uh things that we take for granted today with with much of the IT staff is is gonna change um and possibly even be removed. Um and so what does that mean? Um that means we are gonna have uh you know kind of a shift coming from that uh productivity boast and agentic AI automation, workflow automation kind of mindset to um that new enterprise view that is completely different than what we have today. And um it's not just that we're automating single tasks or single processes, but we're actually automating and creating a very flat layer of an organization and in some cases eliminating it, making us very fast, creating a lot of uh you know new capabilities. But it's also, I think, going to be uh uh uh uh able to help generate massive gains, but uh I think it's gonna also create a lot of disruption, which is a little scary. And I I don't think a lot of the uh conversation is around right now, that right now, because it's an uncomfortable conversation. And yeah, you know, it really shouldn't be because if if done correctly, we're just kind of introducing what I would say is more of a hybrid mode of and I'll just say humans, people working alongside in harmony with AI. Um now that could become a whole different conversation or or discussion in and of itself at a future time. Um but that's kind of like the futurist view, and and I and I just think you gotta realize it uh it's gonna it's gonna flip everything on its head. Um, and not just in IT. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, yeah, I I couldn't agree more. And I think um that best case scenario though, where kind of it's like the human AI co-creation and collaboration is something that I really hope for. You know, I think that there's to your point not a lot of discussion around that, more of a replacement, and it's it's it's uncomfortable. But I do think that there's a world um, and I actually this is something that I think might be non-consensus, but enterprises in the careful way they're evaluating these tools, how they use them, especially when there's human centricity involved, um, it's they're probably going to lead the way in terms of the right way to do this, right? Because I think further down market, it's it's all about experimentation, lack of loyalty, where larger organizations just have so much more at stake.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, for sure. Um I yeah, I I I think uh, you know, when you think about the frameworks that are are even yet to be produced too that will enable a lot of this to happen, it's gonna happen pretty quickly. Um, and and it's not a topic that I am truly uh uh even remotely uh an expert on. But um, you know, you're seeing frameworks for AI development, AI strategy, AI governance, AI compliance, AI security, AI ops, AI. I mean, I it it it's it's uh it's a big shift. So um we gotta keep our eye on it. I think we we've got to embrace it. Um, but we also have an opportunity right now that I think is really important to also make sure that going back to what we said earlier, it doesn't get out of control and create more harm than good. Yeah. Um, and and I'm with you. I I think that harmony between uh we as people and those agents and that that that tech, um, you know, there's a lot of people who are thinking terminator-like stuff, which okay, you know, you you can go there, but um if done well, it it should unleash just massive amounts of pro uh of possibility, massive amounts of of things that we couldn't solve before, massive amounts of savings and and also something we haven't even talked about, capability for people to just start new enterprises and new companies with very little footprint. Um I mean that's an exciting thing for people to be thinking about. If you're diving in, um yeah, who knows what what might might happen. So, anyways, uh the the few the future will be fun.
SPEAKER_00:Future will be fun, and I think that's the perfect place to end. So, George, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. Um, I know that occasionally you send uh or you share your musings on uh LinkedIn, uh, but is there anywhere else where people can find you?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean I'm I'm on uh I'm on Instagram and um you know Facebook and the usual the usual suspects. I I stay away from the TikToks you know stuff of the world, but uh um yeah yeah well awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Well thank you thank you so much for your time. I truly appreciate it. And um yeah, it's been a great time.
