Episode 25: Article 7:Instruction—Part 2

Krista and Jeri delve into class sizes, combo classes, and overload as they continue to discuss the provisions found in Article 7 of the Contract. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hello, welcome to REA Union Voices. I'm Krista. And I'm Jerry. And we're the president and vice president of the Richland Education Association. And you would think at some point we would figure out how to um just make the music just appear and edit the podcast, but that's not who we are.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

So trial and error every time.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

So how are you doing, Jerry?

unknown 0:33

Good.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Did you had a good week?

SPEAKER_01 0:35

I've had a good week. I'm kind of sad. I'm losing. Well, I already lost one student who moved closer to where they live in Kenoy. Oh. And then today I found out that it was one of my other students last days.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

I'm like, oh. And they're also moving, well, he's moving to Pasco. So you know, they just you create relationships over the year like we're supposed to, and they're good kids.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Well, yeah, in April, that's that is hard.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Yeah. I think they want to get him there before they go to high school.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

That yeah, that probably makes sense. And then they can maybe get to know some kids and stuff and alleviate some of the angst around them. Yeah, it's probably a better decision for the kids. But that is that is sad.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

And it's exciting that you know who your new vice principal's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yes. That and you know, it is nice because like, okay, this is gonna be my world next year, and you know. And I know you know, but I also talked to a friend who's retiring this year, and we're we're on the same, he's taught a little bit longer than I have, and he was a wealth of knowledge. I'm not retiring this year, but I think next year is definitely looking better.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Oh, you're thinking?

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Yeah, so he just gave me more information and stuff that I needed.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

I do know what plan are you on? Two. Okay, I don't I can't speak to plan two. Because I know for plan three that you can retire at 62. Not that I'm giving anything away with Jerry, but you can retire with at 62, uh, or I could with my full benefit. Yeah. If you have 30 years. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

I think I can too. Okay, that's like it's the 30 years is that magic number.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Okay, yes. Yeah, yeah. Well, cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

That's exciting. Yeah, so it's kind of like, okay, I have a plan now because you know that was hanging over my my old head.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Yeah, and anything with retirement, yeah, you definitely want to make sure that you're starting that really super early.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Because there's I think a lot more to it than what people think.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

And that's why I'm super happy. I'm like, you can help me go through it all.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

And then it feels good, I think, when you talk to people. I, you know, I would like to be able to separate service early, and that may be a possibility. So I always feel better when I talk to like my financial planner or some different people who've done it, and they make it feel like it could be a reality.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Yes, yes. And that's how that's what he did.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

So yeah, well, very well, that is very exciting. And so, yeah, for me, I I don't know. I just have kind of felt run down this week. I I don't know if I haven't felt like there's a ton of work on my plate. Like you've seen my little book before with all of that stuff. I'm like, oh my god, I gotta do all this. Um, but dealing with all of the assignment, oh yeah, the admin reassignments and admin transfers and the confusion around that has been, I think it's draining because I know it stresses it stretches people out.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

And even when they ask questions, you're like, oh, then you have to think about the scenario and the what ifs and well, this is what we've done in the past, or oh, we've never done this, so I don't know how to deal with it.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Like, I don't know, you know. Yeah, you know, I mean, and that's you know, there was a a building rep who said, Oh, I'm I'm learning, you know, I'm gonna try, ask me a bunch of questions. She says, I'm sure at some point maybe I'll learn more, I'll be able to answer. I go, Yeah, no, they're all you'll learn more for sure, but you'll never know all the answers. Sometimes it's just a matter of saying it with confidence and you know, going with it, but being being willing to say you were wrong, I think is the most important thing, too. Like, I'm sorry, I I misspoke.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Or I didn't or I also learned that don't just answer to answer and just be like, you know what, I don't know, but I can find that out and get back to you.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Yeah, which is huge. That is huge. So let's go ahead and get back into article seven. And remember, article seven is all about instruction, it pretty much governs, especially for general education teachers, yeah, what we do on a day-to-day basis. Um, and for special education as well. But article eight um adds additional information specific to our special education staff and special programs, which includes a lot of our itinerants. But let's get started with workload. And we're not gonna go through and read this because you can always pick up a copy of the REARSD certificated contract. It's on page 41, it's article um seven, section 7D. But Jerry, why don't you just summarize a little bit about what this section tells us?

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Okay. This tells you what your class size. Oh, what how do we say that? How big your class size can be, and then when overload would start.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Exactly. And what is overload in case somebody's listening to this who doesn't know?

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Overload is when you have more kids than it says on this chart. Yeah. So you get paid for overload. Um yeah, and the grades are all different. Some grades are a little bit no, I think we're all different.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Especially in elementary, there's a whole bunch of different ones. But yeah, if you want to know specific, go to the chart and it tells you like um, you know, K1s have 24 kids. So if I've got 26, that's two kids overload.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Yeah, and a c and all of these numbers have been bargained. Um, you know, and so if you look from one contract to another for districts, you're gonna see different, different things. I remember, you know, for me, when thinking of workload, when I came to Richland School District Boy back in 2009, I was disappointed with the class sizes because we have lower class sizes in um Central KitSAP. But then the thing that was great that I think we talked about the last time was planning, because I only had 30 minutes of planning where we get 50 minutes at elementary here.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

So a lot, so you know it's it's it's a trade-off.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Yeah, it's a trade-off. So we're always working to improve class sizes, but it's it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

It's that's the most expensive one, yeah. Because you have to have space and the teachers. So that's the most expensive.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah. Yeah. And then um also, like another thing that the contract speaks to. Um, we did get language added for counselors that talks about if you're doing the um social emotional screener, yeah. Um, which was something that has been added really, I think, since COVID. Yes that's really looking at students' social emotional well-being. So we were able to get some in um some language in for counselors so that they will have the students that are assigned to them. I know I think at the high schools they might do it by grade level. I think some places do it alphabetically. And so if they have to go touch base with a student who takes an emotional, social emotional screener and maybe needs follow-up because there was something concerning that they alluded to on that screener, then the counselors, psychologists, or social workers really only have to go and touch base with the kids that they already know or that are on their list instead of trying to create a relationship in a in kind of a delicate time. Well, exactly. And then combination classrooms, that's always a fun one.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

I think you and I have both taught classrooms.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yeah, I've only ever taught one once.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

I think I only did it once.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Oh, do you remember what you taught? Two, three. Oh, a two, three. I taught a three-four. Okay.

unknown 8:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Yeah. No, and a combination class or a split class is happens primarily in elementary. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

I I guess it and secondary would just not be a combo.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

It's just it's just kids taking classes. Maybe an eighth grader didn't take the seventh grade Washington State history. So they're gonna take the conventional or a 11th grader needs to take biology in high school. But in elementary, it's when there's not enough students in one grade level and another grade level to have, for example, not enough second grade students to have an additional second grade class, but not enough in third to have an additional class. So then they will create a two-three combo where you have second and third graders together, and it's challenging.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

It is challenging. Yeah, it's and I don't know now. I mean, I did it back in the 90s. I know, I mean you could do whatever you want. Yeah, and they gave you kind of independent students. I mean, they they were really kind about the way they staffed our um built that class, which was nice. I mean, we got a couple, you know, you got some kiddos just because, but they were kind of thoughtful about who they placed in there just because they knew it was gonna be a little struggle.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Well, I remember my story with my combo class. I had only taught kindergarten in first, and I told my principal I wanted to move up and teach older students, and so she said there was gonna be a four or five combo, and I'm like, Yeah, I'll do it. And she's like, Are you sure? And I said, Yeah, I'm ready to do it. And then when I came back in August to start getting my classroom ready, she came in and she said, Well, don't prepare for the four or five because it looks like we may need to add a first. So I'm like, Oh, okay, that's fine. I, you know, I know how to teach it. And then every day for a week, it turned into something else. At one point, I think I'm on my exercise bike at home and she calls me, she goes, Did you want to teach fourth grade, Krista? I said, Yeah, yeah, I'll teach fourth grade. Then the next day it's like, well, Krista, we don't have a fourth, but we have either a straight third or a three-four combo. And so I said, Well, I'll take the third grade because I didn't want the combo. Right. And then all of the second grade teachers approached me and they're like, Krista, you want to take the combo? You know, they're like, This is this this class that we had last year, the second grade class was really rough. Third grade's gonna be rough. I would take the combo if I were you. So I got on the phone and called my principal. I'm like, yeah, can I change my mind? I'd like to take the combo, please. And I had seven fourth graders and 15 third graders. Okay. And but the problem was my they tried to do that. Like, okay, we're they gave me all these really independent third graders, and then they tried to look at the fourth grade thinking, okay, let's maybe these are the students who you know could benefit from reteaching. And but my third graders were so far as compared to the fourth graders. But uh, you know, and it's one year, yeah. And later on, I mean, this wasn't in Richland, this was in Central Kidsap, and we may or may not get to elementary art, music, and PE specialists that are included, but um we had the they had extra sessions, there weren't enough student classes for them to be able to teach full-time. Okay, so there were these extra time blocks, and so it was really cool because the music teacher taught my fourth graders math. Oh, and so I only had to focus on my 15 well-behaved, highly advanced third graders, third graders, you know, for that one hour during the day. Oh nice, you know, and the and the the music teacher. She did a fantastic job. Yeah. Um music and math. So yeah, so that was kind of when we get to specialists, um, there is a thing where it talks about other duties as assigned. And so that's something that happens in other districts, not to stars. Right. But yeah, so the the biggest thing for elementary combo to be aware of if you're an elementary teacher that has to do this, is you do get a little bit of a stipend for it. Um, and it's written weird. 8% of one half of the base salary per semester, essentially you get an eight percent um what do you say? Stipend. An eight percent raise. Yeah. Which with our salaries now, that would be pretty.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah, badly.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

I mean, we're probably I'd have to do the calculation. I mean, we're probably looking at, you know, five or six grand, maybe even more. Um, but it is hard work.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

It is, it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

But that's to account for the fact that you are working with a wider range of learners and you are still responsible for teaching both curriculums. Both curriculums, the standards.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yeah. Um yeah, you have to do and and you get the extra planning day.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Oh, yeah. Yeah. A planning day to occur. Right. Which I don't know that they take because you have to also do a substitute for that day because it has to be You know, I used to do like any time, and I boy, I don't even know if I I don't think I ever had any sort of a planning day when working in Richland. I do remember having some days like this when I was, I think, teaching kindergarten in Central Kidsap. And I would use my day for testing. You know, I'd take the substitute, but then I would come in and just pull kids to do the running reading records and things like that. And so I do think sometimes the teachers, yeah, you know, I mean, it doesn't, you know, it says for planning purposes, but I mean ultimately you get that's still planning. Yeah, for sure. And it might save you time and energy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Then we have the district shall have the five days at the beginning of the year, school year, and three days at the beginning of the second semester to adjust classes. And that, yeah.

unknown 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

And that's for what? So that is so at the beginning of the year, and then again at the semester, what they look at is is there a class that only has two students? Because maybe, maybe we're not gonna fiscally be able to run this class, you know, and so they may have to readjust students in classes or um decide if they're gonna add an additional class or take a class away. Right. Um, you know, I think we think about this quite a bit more at the secondary level. I don't know if it happens in middle school.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

I've heard of this in middle school.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

At the high school level.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Yeah, at the high school, because the students' interests run the schedule.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Yes, yeah. And at elementary, um, I would say that typically the second semester, we don't even operate on semesters in elementary in our district, all trimesters, but I've never heard of the district moving kids or collapsing a class halfway through.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

No, no, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Unfortunately, the the week before school starts or within a week or two after, yeah, there have been situations where elementary teachers have been told, uh sorry, we don't have enough kids for your class.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

You're going to either XY school or this grade.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

And that was when I got hired, it was a combo. So here we go. Yeah. They had a two, three combo at White Bluffs, and um, there were enough kids though to have a straight second and a straight third. And so I ended up getting hired for the third. And then this other teacher took the second grade. Um and that was I started, I believe, after it was after Labor Day that I got the job, and then it was the Thursday after that or whatever. I had a weekend or whatever to go get my class set up, and it's hard. Yeah. So then here's overload. Yeah. What can you say about overload, Jerry? Nobody wants it. Nobody wants overload.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

No, not but you get at CS. Um $3 per day for secondary, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Or per is it per Yeah, it's so the way overload works, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

I mean, if you look in Well for $15 a day for elementary students and overload.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Because you just the same teacher all day.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Yes. So it's the same amount, it's just the amount of time you're actually seeing the student. So a student hour is defined as either uh an hour or that's a block of time in the elementary. We don't typically think of class periods at the secondary, a student hour would be a class period. Yep. Elementary, I would quantify it as a 50-minute block or whatever, 55, because that's what the secondary time is. Um, and then the student day is all of the time that students are at school.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

And so, yes, Jerry is absolutely correct that an elementary teacher who has their uh general education students all day, or if they have a special education student that's with them, you know, um all day, they're getting $15 for the whole day because they are seeing the students the equivalent of five five hours during that day. Yes. Whereas, so how would it work like for you, Jerry? Like if one of your classes is overloaded?

SPEAKER_01 17:44

I would just get three dollars for the student that overloaded me in that specific period. So like oh, so I don't know what I don't even know what the class size is. So yeah, if I had 32 kids and my class size is 31. Yes, I would be overload for one student, so I would get three dollars.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

So three dollars for that one student, but they're only with you like third period, so you're getting just the three dollars once. Where if I had that one student, if I am a second grade teacher and the class size is 26 and I have 27, I'm gonna get $15 because I'm teaching them every single class period. Yes, you are. Yeah. I'll take my three. And um, and then we have something. Um, this is actually a statewide thing. It's called WSLP, written student learning plans. Later on in this article, we'll talk more about ALEs, which are alternative learning experiences programs, but we have specific teachers, those are basically alternative schools. Yeah, and so we have teachers who are hired to create a written student learning plan that demonstrates that these students are getting the proper education that they um that they're supposed to have. Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

She touches base and makes sure they show up.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

We assume if they show up at what we call a comprehensive school, which would just be a typical elementary school, middle school, or high school, that them virtually showing up and taking their classes, you know, and showing up consistently and listening to the counselors and taking the classes they need to graduate, that they are doing what they need to do. But with the ALE programs, it's just a little bit different. They have somebody who gets to work with them and guide them through that process and and keep a little bit more track of them because um well their classes are different, they're the way it's set up is different, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:39

And they have specifics, oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

And a lot of their learning takes place outside of campus, and students can easily get um lost in the system if if somebody's not paying attention to them. Um yeah, you know, and then it just talks about in this article about the district may make downward adjustments in existing overloads at any time. Um, for example, adding a combo class, um, transferring students into another class. Um, you know, it says other mutually agreeable options. It's important to know, though, when it says other mutually agreeable options, it should be a decision between the association and the district. So the union and the district, not necessarily just the teacher and the principal. Yeah. Certain decisions, yes, maybe. But you have to be careful.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Um what else?

unknown 20:44

Let's see.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

In order to in the principal. Oh, yeah. So the principal is supposed to meet if you're overloaded or have significant overload, they should be meeting with the um the employee to help develop a solution. Um and figure out some sort of action within five school days to get right teachers' support. Yeah, whatever's whatever they need, or whatever that student needs, or yeah, unfortunately, I I know I think Richland, I you maybe have more experience, has tried to at times set like a cap. You know, don't let the class go beyond this level. That is hard for a school district to do. Um but it's also challenging because I know people have called and they've said, you know, but what if I don't want the overload? Can I just say don't put the It's like, well, no, yeah, you can't say no. You can't say no. You do the district pays you.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

And yeah, and that is frustrating when you don't want it. It's it is harder sometimes and we don't really have a choice.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Yeah, and and teaching anymore, it's just so hard.

unknown 22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

So yeah. Well, and I I'm thinking about the time, and I thought maybe we could get through. We're we have paraeducator time.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

That might run good with our next one.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

That might run. I think that will run well with the next one anyway. Yeah. So I think um, I think that's about it for what we need for today. And next week, we are gonna get a chance to talk about elementary and secondary paraeducator time, um, which primarily talks about kindergarten and library. Um, and then our elementary specialists, and hopefully we can get to what happens if you have multiple preparations. You have to teach more than three separate like subjects or classes. Yeah, yes, three separate. All right. Well, Jerry, what do we say? In union, there is strength.