Episode 30: Article 7: Instruction-Part 4

Krista and Jeri continue the conversation on Instruction as outlined in Article VII of the CBA with a focus on student discipline. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Hello, welcome to REA Union Voices. I'm Krista and I'm Jerry. And we're the president and vice president of the Ridgeland Education Association. And man, I think we have this one and then probably one more next week.

unknown 0:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

And then then you'll be kind of done, Jerry. And then Becky will. I guess Becky Peterson.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Yeah, I don't have to pick up the rest of it. Yeah. We didn't even make it through seven. No, no. Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

And my goal is to at least get through the entire contract before it expires. So we have two more years. Um, but yeah. Well, Howard, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:47

I'm happy it's Friday. And this was has literally been the longest four days.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

It, you know, gosh. Yeah, four days. Because right now, this time of the year, you're trying to do the work of five days in four days. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Yeah. Lots of catch-up, a lot of grading, lots of kids turning in stuff, a lot of how do I get my grade up? I'm like, just turn in the work you haven't turned in.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

And and I feel like that's even if, you know, and I realize you or maybe other teachers probably chose to maybe do a little bit of work over the four-day weekend.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Maybe not you, you're not a but you know, but even if you do, yeah, it doesn't. I yeah, I did do some grading. I shouldn't say that. But yeah, you just it's that feeling of, woo-hoo, it's almost the end of the year, and oh my gosh, it's almost the end of the year.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Well, and I remember, you know, not being in a classroom. I mean, it and doing a little bit more work in the summer. I mean, I will take a break because I have to for my mental health. But, you know, I'm you know, I do have some things scheduled for when the school year gets out, and then my workload kind of drops down a lot when there are no teachers at school. But I typically do, you know, check my email and kind of finish up some loose ends the two weeks after the school year and then come back closer to the beginning of August. Yeah. Um, so I don't have that feeling, but I remember this time of year just, and it wasn't thinking about all that I had to do to be ready for summer, like grading and that type of stuff. It was the amount of time I actually needed with my students that I was worried, like, oh my gosh, I am not gonna have time to finish these last little Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

The things that I need, I need to get, they need to know this, they need to know this. And you're like, I'm not gonna have time to get everything done.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Yeah, you know, so those would be the things I would wake up at like three or four in the morning and not be able to sleep. But it's not like I can wake up and do some work because the work needs to be done with the students.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Yeah. And I'm trying to think how to keep them engaged next week because they're they're really checked out and it's hard. And even the little things, they're like, is this graded? Do we have to do this? I know, and they're done. We still have days left that we have to do, and no, I'm not gonna show a movie, you know, five days ago.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

And it might be like, Yeah, it's gonna be graded until you start reading what they did, and you're like, Yeah, maybe this goes in the circular file.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Participation. Okay, you turned it in.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Yeah, maybe I'm not gonna grade this one, you know. But yeah, you're like, really? I don't really want to grade it either. Yeah, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

So that's what I'll do this weekend. I'll get my next week really lined out so that I can have activities because I think what they really don't need, and I'm just speaking for my middle schoolers, they need no downtime. Yeah, because if I give them any downtime right now, they just they I'm just I lose them.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

They're like, I'm like, okay, come back together. Um and I know that, you know, this time of year, I think, you know, at whatever level you're at, elementary, middle school, or high school, I think it's really easy to point to someone else going, you've got it easier than me, or it's harder for you. And all, and I'm I'm not hearing that necessarily, but I think what it is, is it's a different type of work that needs to happen. Yeah. You know, because I know that, and maybe even more so for high school than middle school, but I know this impacts middle school. I think leading up to the last day, and then even after the last day, it's the grading.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

The grading, and they have finals, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Getting the finals graded and all of that. Where for the elementary, it's closing out that elementary classroom and getting everything cleaned up, especially if they're gonna use your classroom for summer school, because then you have to try to figure out how to hide your own personal materials while making the math manipulatives and everything else, you know, everything else available.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

That's kind of I'm not well. I don't know if I'm going into the building or not yet. So I'm kind of I'll probably be purging a little bit next week. Yeah. Just in case.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah, no, I I know I remember my um my way, I always did it. And I can I do it in the office as well. The last five days of school. Well, except for the last day, but the five days before the last day, it's like I would always focus on like one wall of the room, you know, or whatever's in that. I'm like, okay, I've gotta go. Just that one wall. And like on the easiest day, it would be like I see your wall that has like the um the bulletin board and just the whiteboard and all that. It's like, okay, that's probably gonna be easier than the than the section that has cupboards.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Yes, yes, definitely. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

And so I would try to get, I would try to complete one section of the room exactly. And so I do that around my desk where it's like, okay, let me let me purge some of this stuff or get this stuff clean. Yeah. But but in any case, let's go ahead and move on. Um, today we are going to talk about article seven instructions. So we're continuing. Section 7M, which is all about student discipline. And um, Jerry, is there anything that stands out to you when it comes to student discipline?

SPEAKER_00 5:52

I think the the most concerns we get from teachers is um section 7MB. Teachers are authorized to exclude any student from the class for the remainder of a class session or elementary day. I know that um, and I don't know how it works with everybody, but I do know that Chief Joe finally has. I mean, we have a good, like, I need you out of class. We have a pretty clear cut process system for that. Um, and they can be gone for a 10-minute break, or we can say that no, they need to not come back. Um, in elementary, it's been so long, I don't remember excluding a kid for a day, maybe send him down to have a conversation, or we did the buddy rooms.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Yeah, I I mean, I think one thing I have noticed, I agree with you that this is still a problem. And um, I do think though, that some of I'm I hope that some of our efforts with REA have been successful in like the let's team up work that we did to get because going back to um C or no D, that is brand new language, is understood that building administration and employees shall enforce the building discipline procedures and board policies and procedures. Yeah, we got that language in, which gives us a lot more um meat to deal with in writing a possible grievance if a principal is trying to return a student without the meeting. Yeah, without having a meeting to determine the next steps or contacting the parent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Um probably I think that's been very helpful.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

They do, you know. So, so yeah, you know, and I think A in this does talk about um following the state law. And so, and there is guidance from OSPI that, yeah, you know, you can't, yes, we have contract language that says you can exclude a student for up to, you know, the student day, all of that, and you have the authority to do that. But there are things where it says, like, okay, you need to try certain steps first. Like, what did you try to do to alleviate this?

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Yeah, what yeah, rather than just like boom, you're done, like how did you try to mitigate the concerns you had with that person or that student in class before you just exclude them from class?

SPEAKER_01 8:22

You know, or like situations where the student shows up and doesn't have a pencil, and so you're dealing with the teacher, you know, and I don't think this is happening, right? You know, it it has. Yeah, as good anymore. You know, the student doesn't bring their pencil, you know, and so automatically it's like, well, you're gonna go to the office. Yeah. You know, and in that situation, the principal's probably gonna give the kid a pencil and say, hey, head back to class, you know. And you know, so there's been a lot more work, I think, in also trying to help teachers to understand what are certain steps you can take to kind of pick your own battles. That yes, you might be somebody who feels strongly that teachers should or students should come prepared, but also maybe have extra pencils, extra pencils, extra paper, yeah, you know, things in place to prevent a s a possible meltdown.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Yeah, because we don't know how they come in through the door in the morning, you know. Yeah, they yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

No, and I remember as a brand new teacher, I I literally remember, and I would not do this to this day, um giving kids stickers, kindergarten, and hearing one student, I want the blue one, I want the blue one, I want the blue one. And I knew that if I didn't give that kid a blue sticker, he was gonna melt down. And so I just called the office and I said, so-and-so's gonna melt down because he's not gonna get the sticker he wants, because I didn't think it was fair to the other students because nobody else got to choose.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

And now, you know, I'm thinking about equity and different kids have different needs, you know, and I would never do that now, even though it still doesn't seem fair, but or let all of the kids pick.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

You know, and so I've learned how to pick my battles that I'm not gonna do something that is going to trigger yes, a student. You know, I can't believe I made that decision, but I was supported.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

It was a different time though, that was like 28 years ago. And the kids tapping is the one that gets me in. And I just let them know, you guys, tapping makes me crazy. There's enough noise noise going on, and I hear this. So I'm like, please stop.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Yeah, and it's yeah, trying to think about like what you're gonna say next or to you know, follow your slide deck. Yeah, you know, it's like it's preventing me from being able to do my job. But yeah, no, so I think you know, teachers do have the authority to exclude students. Um, my advice is always be very specific with your administrator as to what you need, because like Jerry said, it might just be, hey, I need you to go have a conversation with this kid and then they can come back. Or um, this student has done this, this, and this, and I've done this, this, this, this, and this, and they just need to be gone.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

That's happened to me twice actually this week. I had a student come in and just kind of a mood, and he wasn't the student, wasn't like horrible, just a mood and and couldn't pull it together. So I'm like, okay, you need to, you know, go. And and I even emailed and said, This kiddos in a mood, maybe just a conversation. Well, it blew up whenever it got to the office. And then again this morning, a student came in kind of again with the same, but a little bit more um, I don't know if obstinate's a word. And I said something about, you know, hey, you need to take your earbuds out. And they just said, I can't hear you, the music's too loud, and it just kind of escalated from there. So something's going on. And you know, it's not like I'm get out of here because you're not listening to me.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

It's just like you need somebody needs to talk to you because there's obviously something going on, because it's not that's not a regular and then just trying to get the student, you know, what they need to be able to express themselves or to get to the heart of what yeah, because I mean this was like first thing in the morning, so obviously it wasn't something that had happened during the day, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

It was just like you walked in the door this way, what's going on? So obviously came to school with some of that.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

But yeah. Um, other new language that we were able to bargain this last year, we do have um language in here about if an IEP or a 504 team meet to develop some sort of a change in a student's um BIP, which is behavior intervention plan um 504 or their IEP, if it's related to you know their social, emotional, and behavioral skills, that um the district should try to schedule the meetings during your day. But if those are scheduled outside of the student day, um general education teachers should receive um pay for attending those meetings. And you might ask, why how come not special education teachers? That's because we have an additional stipend that they get because we've already um we'll talk about that in in article eight. But that's important too, the the BIP, the behavior intervention plan.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Um because that'll have steps in there.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yes, you should follow the behavior intervention plan before trying to exclude. I mean, of course, if it's something that rises to the top, a student brings a weapon to school.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Um violent and causing a room clearance, yeah, things like that. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Danger to themselves or others, or you would remove that student immediately, but if it's just those grading behaviors that you're like, I can't cope with this, or you know, you really should be following the BIP. Um and if it's not working, then you do report, you have the student removed, and there are laws in place that say after an IEP, if a student on an IEP is removed for the equivalent of 10 days, um, there's a mandatory meeting that's supposed to take place to look at the IEP, to review the BIP, to write a BIP. Yeah. Um, but I think it is sometimes really easy for I'm gonna say it, administrators to bring those students back or try to code it in some different way.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Yeah, it makes it easier than having to deal with paperwork and processes and meetings.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Exactly. So yeah, um what is this? Appropriate action will include one or more of the following: the parent guardian contact, the taking of action by the administration that is commensurate to the offense, and the establishment of a remediation program for students having behavior problems that are repetitive in nature. And so that's all part of that meeting that's supposed to take place.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Yeah, we've had you know, some kids can't make it through the whole day, even in secondary.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

And so they come through fourth hour, or they come later in the day, or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

And I know, yeah, for sure. We've had a lot of um elementary students, some kindergarten, some kindergarten students who may attend on a half-day um kindergarten schedule.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

My grandson.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Yeah, exactly. Um, or the it's called Chico, uh some sort of a check-in, check-out. Yeah, we have a lot of um, you know, social groups with the counselor or a social worker. Yeah. Um yeah. And then it just talks about how all of the policies are um in place as per state law. So, I mean, you we have our contract language, we have Richland School District Board policy about behavior and discipline, and all of this links back to the appropriate RCWs and WACs. Yes. So these are these are legal steps that the district does have an obligation to take. And it's also important to note that students as well have access to due process if um a parent or a student believes that um they haven't been treated fairly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So what else do we have?

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Um, let's see.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Oh, you want to talk about this? About the beginning of the year meeting, since that'll happen in the fall.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Yeah. Well, it says like all these meetings, employees shall receive documentation showing disciplinary codes, discipline flow charts. These meetings shall be held before the first student day during the workday. So that's those days in the summer when we come back to school. We meet and the building talks about it. And it's reviewed annually. And then if we need more, we can talk about it because there need if there needs to be changes.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yeah. So essentially, uh most likely this is probably going to be discussed on one of your building time days, or it might be that time day before the first day of school. Where yeah, you're supposed to have a conversation or uh some sort of a presentation where your administrator is going over your school's behavior plan and all of the other things that Jerry talked about, just the differ the discipline flow charts that you might have. Most schools, part of the discipline plan, has a list of majors and minors and who you're supposed to contact. And who's responsible for it? Yeah, it lists the things that you, as the teacher or staff member, are responsible for and the different things that the principal is supposed to do. Um, it should be a fluid conversation, meaning that if things need to get changed, they can get changed.

unknown 17:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Um, but yeah, but we just need to make sure that that is happening because we want students to come on the first day to classrooms with teachers who are prepared, because that's when you're outlining all of your expectations and your rules, classroom rules and doing your teach twos, all of that good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Um, and then the other thing that's really important, I think it might be the last. That's what I was saying. Oh no, I guess there is a few more. Um, but one of the things, if if discipline is starting to break down in your building and you're starting to feel like it's not being addressed appropriately, then um the building reps can, you know, go to your building reps because they can initiate a process where um if I believe it talks about if two-thirds of the, yeah, I think it is following the decision-making process, which is two-thirds. But you can follow the site-based decision-making process to have a meeting and a discussion that would include a vote. And if two-thirds of all of the bargaining unit members, that means dues paying and non-dues paying, hopefully, most are dues paying, if not all, um, can vote to have the BLT, the building leadership team, look at behavior and discipline and address those needs, which would most likely result in the putting together of a a new or an adjusted. Yeah, changing the current behavior and discipline plan or putting together a new one that would then come back to the bargaining unit for um a vote for ratification. And we have had some buildings do that.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Let's see what else within the first week. Yeah, so I just wanted to So it's interesting that it talks about it in the first day, and then here it says within the first week.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Yeah, school administrators shall meet with the employee annually to establish and review building disciplinary standards and procedures. At these meetings, employees shall receive documentation showing disciplinary codes and discipline flow charts. These meetings shall be held before the first student day during the workday.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

But then I think we left um within the first week of each school year, all employees shall be informed of the current procedural. So, yeah, I think we we do usually get it the day before.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

So here's what I'm gonna say on this. We bargained language that is now conflicting. Because we shouldn't have to do that. I would probably say that before the first day, maybe that's when teachers are presented at least with the documentation, and then sometime during the first week of school, they should probably have that opportunity. It shouldn't just be your principal giving you a handbook and expecting you to go read everything. Yeah. But all right, something to correct in the next bargain. And and this is language too. K is controversial. It's about the district providing a timeout space. We have had some um reps, executive board members, and I think members uh believe that a timeout space means it's like a separate classroom or a place that's um that has a para or somebody else there that's dealing. Like, do you still have your nest?

SPEAKER_00 21:14

We do, and we have a um success center, but that's because we have room to have that.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Yes. So not every school has an actual physical timeout space. But what REA has asserted essentially then the timeout space is the office. Yeah, the timeout space is wherever the building administrator dealing with the discipline needs to take the student to help resolve the disciplinary problem. Right. And it should not be in a counselor's office, it should not be in another teacher's classroom, it should not be in if you happen to have an instructional coach.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

You know, unless those people are part of the CARES team and it's understood that this is a child's. Who is um dysregulated, and it would probably be better for a counselor to help get the student regulated. Really, it should be the administrator that's dealing with disciplinary concerns. But I do understand that there are going to be times where special education teachers, social workers, counselors, people who have better skills, best teachers, the best teachers, they are going to probably be the ones who are going to um step in.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

But yeah, but the timeout space is essentially wherever you get to send a student to be, you know, dealt with, talk to, whatever it is, if you just yeah, if when you've got to send a kiddo out, whatever space you're told to send them to, that is the timeout space.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

And that term sending out, you should be following your school's behavior plan. And if the behavior plan says that you're supposed to push the emergency button and alert the office and somebody's supposed to come and pick up the child, or if the plan is that you um Yeah, I should say escort because we call we call escort. Yeah, call the office and say, hey, I'm sending so-and-so down right now so somebody can come and get them. I would not advise anybody to just write a referral and hand it to a child and say, get out. You know, you know, not that you're gonna do that, but uh, and I say that because I had a 10th grade teacher who did that when I was in 10th grade, not to me, but to another student who was popping off.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

We have paperwork that has they take it to wherever they're going. Like we send them, you know, to the either one place, whether they're going to go take a break or they're actually going to spend the rest of the class period. No, I can take a paper.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

I'm just curious though, do you alert the nest that they're coming or wherever they're supposed to be?

SPEAKER_00 23:49

The nest, I don't. Success center, I do. Because they have to come back with the paper.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Oh, I see. So there is a plan in place that shows that they have to go there. Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Now there's a few kids that I I will say, Hey, can you meet them at the door?

SPEAKER_01 24:02

And working with yeah, with little kids. I mean, I one time had a student, not because he was in trouble, I may have even shared it on this podcast. A student who the office called me, a kindergartner, and they said, Oh, the m the mom is here. Can you send the child to the office? And I said, Oh, hey, your mom's in the office. And then the kid left and was found up the street. Because he was just gonna he was heading to his mom's work office. Oh gosh. And I was at a school next to a navy base, and so it was actually he was trying to get onto the Navy base. He was at the the place where people drive on and they stopped him, and they're like, Um, who are you? And I don't think he knew who he was or where he was going. He's a kid or anything. No, he's five years old, and I so I think they just was like, Maybe this kid might be from Clear Creek. Oh my goodness. You know, I I don't know if he told them his name and everything, but yeah, it was. Um, after that, I always called the office. I said, Can you somebody come and pick up this child or the way my room was set up? I could still visually watch my room, but kind of step out a little bit and see him walking down the hall, and then a secretary would come and smile and wave and take their hand.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

And I guess mine's a little different because I'm in the portable and they have to be let into the building. They can't get in without my key. So it's either if for the nest, they're 10 minutes, so I can give it to them, they can get into the building. But if they're leaving, leaving, I have to either have another student take them, yeah. Hey, can you open up, you know, let them in at the counselor door or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

So but in any case, and that this has probably been a longer one, but it's behavior and discipline, and I'm sure it's something that people are dealing with right now. And so I think we will stop there. Um, we will probably have one more episode before summer. I don't know if that episode will be on the contract or just a goodbye, and what are we gonna do next and all of that? But in any case, um, Jerry, what do we say? In union, there is strength.