Mental Health Awareness Week | with Bronia

As part of Mental Health Awareness Week, this episode of Beyond The Studio explores an important conversation around mental health in the dance world.

Hayley is joined by Bronia, founder of Resili Dance, to talk honestly about the pressures many dancers and their teachers quietly carry behind the scenes, perfectionism, anxiety, overwhelm, emotional exhaustion, and pressure.

Together, they discuss:

• The hidden pressures dancers often experience
• What “high functioning but struggling” can look like
• Signs parents and teachers may unintentionally miss
• How we can create healthier, more supportive training environments
• What helps young people feel safe, supported, and able to thrive

This conversation is for parents, teachers, dancers, and anyone passionate about supporting young people not just in performance, but in their wellbeing too!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hello, and welcome back to Beyond the Studio. Today I'm joined by Brunya, a fellow dance business owner and also founder of Roselli Dance. So dance is often seen as something positive, and it is very, very positive. But what we don't always talk about is the pressure and the perfectionism and the impact that it can have on a dancer's mental health. So today, in honor of Mental Health Awareness Week, we are going to be talking about mental health in dancers and the people that lead and teach them and what's really going on beneath the surface and how we can help better support young people in this space and the people at the forefront. So, Brun, you're welcome. So excited to have you here. Um, to start with, could you take us back? I love to start at the beginning. What's your journey been in the performing arts?

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Oh my gosh. So hi, I'm so super excited to be here. I've been following along and seeing everything, and obviously I've known Haley for a little while now. So it's nice to be joining you on this new venture that, well, it's not that new anymore, is it? It's you're quite a few episodes in.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

So yeah, we've been going, I think, was it January that I started when I I just took the leap. Always the best way.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Let's get some conversation going. Yeah. Um, so my journey in dance started when I was three, and apparently I was just taken to dance class, and that was it. I was always dancing at home anyway, in front of the telly and stuff. So mum just took me along to a local dance school, and I ended up being there until the age of 16. So I used to do exams and competitions and just loved it, like it was my life. I knew at 14 I was gonna dance, so did my GCSCs, did well in those, but I knew I was going off to dance college, and that was that was it. Yeah, so at 16 I went to Leicester College of Performing Arts, LCPA, and was there for three years training, loved it up there. It was kind of a home away from home because um LCPA is the head office of British Theatre Dance Association, which is all the exams I've done since the age of three, and now my school do BTDA exams, so it's like a full circle moment, which is lovely. Um, yeah, three years there, graduated straight out into the big bad world of auditions and the harshness of auditions and growing up and the oh another no, but still, you know, keep going, keep compounding those auditions. Um, and the first job, professional job I got, was I'm trying to think back now. Was it Panto or whether it was uh summer season? I think it was a summer season, with the then uh company called QDOS, which is now Crossroads Entertainment. And excuse me, I worked for that company for oh gosh, years, years and years and years. So I would do summer seasons for them, and then I was lucky enough to bear with me, don't know what's going on. Sorry. Start calling through sorry about that, Haley. Um yeah, I did panto with them and summer seasons for a number of years, and then it took me a while to I don't want to say get a you know well recognized job because those jobs jobs were I was being paid to dance, to sing, to perform.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Panto was we're almost conditioned though to believe that they're not quite good enough, aren't we?

SPEAKER_01 3:38

It's not really right, but yeah, and you know, things in between corporate jobs. I did all of those kind of things, and then wasn't until like 2000 and I want to say seven. I could be getting my dates wrong, doesn't really matter. That I got a call from my agent that I didn't even know um I'd been put up for dirty dancing in Denmark. They'd sent my show reel off, and I got a call saying I'd got the job, and I was like, Oh, incredible. So I was like, Oh, okay, fine. So off I flew to Denmark and did dirty dancing out there for three, four months. Excuse the pun, had the time of my life. Um, it was amazing. It was difficult because the show was in Danish, but the songs were in English. Yeah. Um, and then the following year I then landed We Will Rock You as assistance, dance cap assistant, dance captain and swing. Um, went on numerous times in different roles in different tracks, so that was a challenge because I hadn't done that before, other than being an understudy at Panto, which is slightly different. Um, and then in between that was when I started my dance school, which I'd been teaching in between jobs for like probably 10 years, but I didn't really want to have my own school. It was kind of like something I just was doing in between. I was like, you know, I'll start some classes, you know. Didn't have a clue what I was doing. Started these lessons up, and we're now 10 years in. So BPDC's 10 years old this year, which is exciting. Doing a big show um at the local like big theatre in Reading. And yeah, that's kind of a shortened version of professional jobs, and then during that time as well, moved to the other side of the table, choreographing for um world's biggest productions, doing e.l.f. I was also in ELF before then moving to the other side of it. So yeah, had a number of years with ELF, which I remember you being ELF. Yeah. Yeah, I was Emily Hobbs in it for a couple of the arena tours and well started off as a dancer, then moved up to play Emily, then was moved to the choreography side of it and yeah, loved being part of that show. Very much play big place in my heart for ELF. But yeah, it's kind of I've kind of decided to get back into being dance business owner and and just moving to that part of my life now rather than the professional on stage or choreography. I'd I'd love to do more choreography if the opportunity came up, but yeah, dance business owner and resillice, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

You go through phases, don't you? What a fun job to yourself, yeah. And obviously, because like you said, we you know, we've touched on the you are a dance business owner, absolutely. But Resilient Dance has been a newer venture for you. And at what point, and I know this is um, it's like a passion project for you as well, you know, in the sense that it's really, really close to your heart, but also as we were saying actually before we started recording, there is a really big need for this, and there's a big need around the conversation, around the resources, around the support, but it's not maybe something that is spoken about enough, um, which is the mental health side of things. Yes. And at what point did you start noticing the mental health side of things? So was there a moment where it really clicked for you personally?

SPEAKER_01 7:07

So Rosilla Dance was born in a time where I was struggling with my mental health. Right. Um, and I've had a very big journey with my own mental health. And people, if you follow Rosilla Dance or know me online from my dance school, I do talk about mental health quite openly. I'm not scared to talk about it. And I think we're getting there with talking about mental health. And you know, there's you know, the be kind movement that started with Caroline Flack, but it's still not a big enough conversation that happens because people, as soon as you say the word mental, people go, Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

I think people are still, you know, it's hard for people to share because Instagram and Facebook and and all of these kind of platforms where you do share are such a highlight reel.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

People are still nervous to share anything that's not shiny and wrapped in a nice bow, and you know, and it's it's it's a really vulnerable place. I mean, how did that feel for you like at the time when you did start to share? Because I can imagine that that was quite a big step.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

I think I have been sharing for a while, but not really lent into sharing, more like recognizing that sharing is caring, basically. More people engage when I talk about my own mental health than anything else that I put out because people kind of go, Oh yeah, I felt like that. And I think with resilience, it's always been bubbling in the background because back, dare I say it, back in COVID times, I did my first mental health first aid course. And even then, I asked the instructor, like, how do I do this? How do I become like you? Because this has just clicked with me. Um, but in terms of noticing things within the dance school, there's always been tiny uh uh events maybe that have happened, primarily with the sort of GCSE age students. Yeah. And you know, the stress that they that GCSEs bring, which is very, you know, prominent at the moment. They've just started, well, lots of them started last week, didn't they? But they start on today.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

It's quite ironic how it starts on mental health awareness week or okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Let's be kind, everybody. Um, and yeah, just little things like either kids that you would think would be in class, you know, all the time, suddenly either not wanting to be in class because they were so stressed about revising, or being in class and just suddenly having a a burst into tears moment and leaving the studio, quite rightly, absolutely fine to do that. You don't want to keep them in there, but it was sort of like, oh, what this is happening a little bit more regularly, and then as the years have gone on, having my own dance school, the age has got lower and lower and lower because I think the pressure is put on primary school kids now to be learning so much more than they should be, and the pressure for SATs and all these offstead things that they, you know, that's for the school, obviously, but the pressure's put on the children to perform.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

And energy doesn't lie, does it? If if the teachers are feeling that pressure, because you know teachers are incredible, but they're under so much pressure and so much stress, and energy doesn't lie. You know, the students can feel it, it's it's just like this boiling pot, isn't it? I completely agree with you.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

And then also, COVID, I don't it just definitely didn't help those young children that were either born during COVID or were younger during COVID because they were with their families all the time. They were with mum, they were with dad, they were with their siblings. They then have that anxiety attachment that you know they don't want to leave them. So we've noticed that you probably have as well, with the younger students actually being left to come to class. We've really had to work on, you know, bringing them in and you know, parents being allowed up, but then slowly moving them out of the studio because essentially the parent needs the break, the child needs the time to grow and figure out, you know, do I enjoy this? Or if if this is something I enjoy, I want to be focused on it rather than worrying where my parent is. Um, so that that's been tough because that's even younger that they're having that anxiety. And um yeah, just it's gradually grown, but I think we've also become more aware of it because of COVID and because of that time where we all kind of had to go, oh gosh, this is a change, and people re-evaluated everything. So actually, some people did recognise, oh, I've been feeling like this for a long, long time. So they've changed how they work. Lots of people now work from home because it's more comfortable for them for a personal point of view, or they don't need the stress of going into the office. Little bit different with the dance school, because obviously we didn't want to stay at home dancing in the uh conservatory was where I was. That was my dance studio.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Yeah, tiny little squares on the screen.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

It's like exactly getting back into the studio was obviously a big, big thing for the kids, and again, the anxiety of everybody.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

It's that connect, and it's just I think we really realised during that time how important connection is, and having places where you can just forget the world for a minute, yeah, and that's where dance is incredible. Yes, somebody's mental health, it really, really is. But then obviously, we know on the flip side, like you mentioned at the beginning, when you maybe take dance slightly further into a career, you want to take it a bit more seriously, or even if it doesn't head into a career, maybe it's you start taking dance exams and and things like that. And obviously, it is up to the the school itself to make those a positive experience for the student. Yeah, but it obviously comes with its own little pressures here and there, and particularly like I said, when you take it into a career, yeah. And again, we spoke a little bit before recording about how dancers are taught to mask, yeah, the show must go on, is a saying. Yes, it's a saying, and I know as a teacher, and I guess this is the same in any job, but it's slightly different. If you've had a bad day, you have to still walk in that room and own the room and you know, and teach everybody and ensure that they walk out feeling the best version of themselves. So we are taught to mask, and anyone really with a front-facing job, you know, has that. Um so why do I mean we know we're trying to do that, but why do you think dancers are so good at masking how they feel?

SPEAKER_01 13:59

I think because essentially you're acting when you're dancing, yeah, you know, you're not really yourself when you're dancing. Yes, it's your body and you know you're controlling the movements, but you lose yourself when you're dancing. You become this person that is not a bronya that's you know, had a bad day at school or whatever, you just kind of get into that moment and that character essentially, yeah, that you just not you. So if you've had that bad day at school or work or wherever it's been at home, um coming in and being in that space where you do lose yourself is easier to then get into that character and be like, yeah, I've had a great day, when actually, you know, I haven't had a great day. But you can also spot the signs quite quickly, I think, as a dance teacher, you know, you see these kids week in, week out, or you've known them since the age of three and they're now 16, 15, 17, whatever they are. Um, so you do notice things, but I think they're just really good at it as well because of social media. Because, you know, especially with the younger students, apologies if I get this wrong, because I am of an older generation. I like to think I'm, you know, down with the kids. I mean, we like to think we are, but we're not. I mean, even saying that's not down with the kids, is it? I'm down with the kids. But, you know, we see what they're posting online and what the pressures are of looking great and you know, even down to makeup, like these children, because they are children, even though they like to think they're slightly older than their age, you know, makeup that they wear. Where where was the time of wearing the blue mascara and eyeliner? Where's the dream gone? Where was the foundation and lip liner like over your lips to like tail it out? No one has had that makeup transition like we did, but you know, they have this perfect makeup, they have this perfect hair, they have the designer clothes that they're all supposed to wear. So there's a lot of pressure, and they mask going online and being singing along. I don't know whether they if this is still a thing, but I noticed when TikTok was first out, it was all the lip syncing to songs and you know, the looking to camera in a certain way and things like that. So that's a mask as well. Because I guarantee once they've done that lip syncing, they're not walking around, you know, feeling like that. So I think that has a big part to play with the what the reason why they can mask so well is because they they act on there and then they're like, Oh, I can slip because it's easy, it's easier to slip into the mask and be I'm okay than actually sit with yourself and go, Do you know what I'm not? Because that's quite scary, especially for young people, to be like, Oh, is it normal to feel like this? Is it you know, no one else is seemingly feeling like this, or if you don't have any other examples, yeah, because everyone's oh yeah, I'm fine, because it's easy. That feels easier and you know, comfortable, whereas actually looking at yourself and maybe recognizing something that you're like, oh, I've been feeling like that for a while. I'll just push it aside, that's easier.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

No, yeah, and like you said, like storytelling is a part of dance and performing dance, that's what happens. And it's important to have those places of escapism, um you know, just get out of your head and just like you know, if it's reading a book, if it's dancing, it's like going into a different world for a minute. However, like you said, you don't want it to become a s a mask solely than just you know ignoring maybe anything that's bubbling up. So it's important to have places that have resource like resources where they can go, okay, yep, I can have my bit of escapism, but it's also where I can vocalize how I feel as well, not just dance the troubles away. Isn't that so?

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yeah, exactly. I mean, dance will always make you feel better, even if it's just I think I said this on one of my posts, even if it's just putting you know your favourite song on and dancing around the kitchen or your bedroom, that will always make you feel better. But you need to have a space like your dance school to go, actually, do you know what Miss Haley or Miss Braun, I I don't feel great today. And for them to know that it's okay to come to you and say that. Yeah, for sure. Because you know, and for the teacher to understand that as well, because sometimes that's a bit of a of a gap that we need to bridge as well, because some teachers might not understand that a student is struggling in a certain way. I think we've got a lot better as an industry in in that sense, but you know, these kids need to know that if they not necessarily speak to you during class, or you know, they should come to you before or after and go, do you know what? I'm I'm struggling a little bit. Can I book in a time to talk to you, or do you have five minutes now, or whatever it is, if there's a way for you to open up that line of communication, then at least you know they know it's safe to do so.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

I completely um I think because my, especially my seniors, um we I recognize it with them. So I would always, they used to get TED talk from Braun. I was like, yeah, it's TED talk time. Come on, like I know you're here for dancing, but I can sense that there's something not quite right, or you know, are we all okay today? Because it feels like there's an energy in here, like, and sometimes it would be like, no, we're fine. And other times if you open that line of conversation, somebody might go, do you know what, but I've had a really rubbish day at school, I'm a bit stressed because it's GCSEs, and then that opens the conversation for everybody to go, actually, yeah. Do you know what? I had an argument with my friend yesterday and it's really upset me. And you know, it might take up 10 minutes of your class, but would you not rather have that 10 minutes of conversation and connectivity with your students, with each other, to go, actually, let's have this conversation. It might not help with show time and stress that happens with that, but you know, you can always practice for a bit longer.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

But like you said, it's just having the option there, even if they if there's good and you know, they're just a bit grumpy that day, and that's fine, you know, we're all gonna be grumpy. Um having the option to be able to speak and having the freedom and that safety. Yeah. You know, we've spoken about what kind of the the things you recognized and your own personal journey with it, and you know, you knowing that you have had struggles with your own mental health, you've got awareness around those, you can you can now recognize it in other people. What is what is the purpose of resilience? What are you hoping to achieve with it? What are you hoping to be able to give to people that maybe you didn't have yourself?

SPEAKER_01 20:48

So for me, resilience A is for teachers to be able to open those conversations up with their students and not and be confident with them. Like, like we said before, when people hear the word mental health, they get a bit scared. Yeah. And they get a bit like, oh gosh, what's the right way to talk about this? So essentially, resilience is aiming to bring some mental health awareness courses, you know, for the dancer's well-being, for you to be able to recognize little signs of things. And the thing is, the majority of us will know will know these signs anyway, but it's just honing in on them and going, actually, that's been going on for a number of weeks now. Should I be speaking to that student?

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Should I be how do I help? Because we're not, you know, lots of us haven't haven't got a mental health certificate. We haven't had the actually there's there's a gap there because you move the signs, but how do you help?

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Yeah, so eventually Resilla Dance will be offering courses to um be a qualification, maybe obviously very, very new at the moment, so it's all kind of figuring out. The ins and outs and how we do that to the best of our ability. Um, we have been running some free workshops, which we we've got another one on the 2nd of June, if anyone wants to jump on, um, which will be with myself and Ryan, who is my mental health first aid instructor. So he is Mr. Mental Health, he's got brilliant knowledge, he's been in the industry of mental health and well-being for well over 10 years. And um it I just want to be able to help the teachers understand that it's okay to open those conversations up if you're concerned for somebody, and also to um, you know, pinpoint you to charities that might be able to help you. Um, there's obviously lots of different areas of mental health, you know, there's not just one box of you've got anxiety, you've got depression, you might have a you know, eating disorder or restrictive eating thing going on. It's not just one box fits all.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Exactly, and that's what's so scary to a lot of people. It's this big pool when you hear the word it's you it's not just a one-size-fits-all. So, like you said, recognizing that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

And just being able to because you're not there as much as we feel like it, you're not there to be a therapist, which obviously we all care, and you want to be able to help support your students, but you're not there to fix them, yeah. You're there to, you know, help um them open the conversation and maybe get them to speak to their parent because a lot of these kids won't have spoken to their parents, or maybe they want to open up to a friend.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Because I think the scary thing with especially the older sort of teenagers is they don't tend to talk to their parents because they're at that age where you don't talk, but actually you you need to be able to talk to your mum or your dad or your stepmum, stepdad, whatever your home situation is, and for also the parent to know that they can support their child because maybe their dance teacher has spoken to the parent and they've you know pushed them towards a charity or to go to the doctor or to try and get on the CAMS list, although the CAMS list is you know crazy long. Um, but just pinpointing and you know showing people there is help out there. Yeah. Because a lot of people don't realize just how many, there's so many charities in your local area. When you become a mental health first aider, you have an app that can help you um know what your local charities are for each sort of area of mental health. So whether it's you know, disordered eating, there might be be somewhere that might not be a clinic or something, but just for parents to speak to other parents that are going through it because we don't know they don't know how to speak to their child about their eating, or you know, they're concerned about their child's eating habits. Um, or there might be like a local group that the child can go to to speak to other people that are in the same situation, or because it's quite it can feel quite lonely having a mental health.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Yeah. Well, this is what I think is so incredible what you're doing, because at the end of the day, knowledge is power, and said being able to open up and share these resources with people is incredible, but it it can be incredibly isolating, and like you said, be arming essentially teachers with the just with the tools to be able to help and lead the conversation, open the conversation. No, we may not be able to fix it, you know. That's not, I don't think there is really a fix it when it comes to, but it's about knowing where you can go, yeah, support and teachers not being scared of it, yeah, students not being scared of it, it becoming something that's just welcomed with open arms. It's not a scary thing. And I think that's incredibly uplifting rather than it is scary. Let's just look at it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

And Resilla Dance, as well as offering courses and eventually a qualification, I want it to become a community of members that you know, we get together once a week, bi-weekly, whatever it is, for people to come along with a cup of tea and just have a chat and go, do you know what, Bronn? This happened this week with this class. Is anyone else dealt with this before? What can I do? Because for me, it's the conversation, having the conversation, you know, we did our free workshop back in February, and we had, I think there was like 14 of us on the call, and it started off February, like nobody wanted to talk, which is normal, absolutely normal. But as soon as we started up the conversations, everybody was going, Yep, I've had to deal with that. What would you recommend? How would I speak to them? Or where could I put, you know, pinpoint them to? Or and it's just about that, like having a community together of like-minded dance business owners and teachers that can have those conversations and not feel scared and feel supported because it's a scary enough industry, anyway, with trying to figure out what you're doing with that business and you know, shows and exams and press pressure on the teachers as well as the kids to have that space to go, okay, how do you know, how do I deal with this? And knowing that other people have definitely experienced it.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Yeah, and to be honest, and leading by example, because like you just said there, and I found that so interesting that you know, you host the workshop and no one wants to talk. It's normal. If we feel like that, of course, you know. Young people would they don't talk anyway, do they? They text. You know, so we have to lead the way, you know, and we have to lead the way for these conversations just to be normal. And yeah, this, I mean, suppose this is exactly what this podcast, Beyond the Studio, is all about, as well, is understanding the full picture behind what young people are experiencing, what families are experiencing, not just what's going on on the surface. Because, like you said, once one person starts talking about it, whether it be dance teacher to dance teacher or family to family, all of a sudden, yeah, God, they I'm going through that too. And all of a sudden, there's connection, there's understanding, and like you said, community, which is super important. So I think what you're doing is so valuable, and I'm really excited to see where you take it, and you know, we'll absolutely be there to get as much knowledge as you possibly can, because like I said, it's something that is really, really needed at the moment. So, um, but so we always finish the the episodes with the same question.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

And it is if you could give one piece of advice to your younger self, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Don't compare yourself to others and don't strive for perfection, which sounds contradictive in the dance world, but nothing is perfect. And if something isn't working, don't beat yourself up about it. It doesn't need to be perfect straight away. Obviously, you're wanting to get the move or the routine or whatever it is that you're striving for, but don't beat yourself up about the perfection of the journey, is what I mean. Like you'll get there eventually, but the more you keep knocking yourself down, it's gonna take you even longer to get to the end goal because you know, if you're speaking negatively to yourself, you're not gonna get anywhere. You've got to give yourself some love and positive vibes. So, yeah, don't compare, especially in this day and age with social media. That's I know that's not easy, but comparing to others, and you know, especially at dance college, it was very much in the mirror. Yeah, somebody else would get like, oh yeah, that's amazing. And you're like, Well, why am I not? Yeah, why do I look differently to that person? Why does my leg not go that high? And it just constant, yeah, bad talking to yourself. So yeah, don't compare. Use the mirror as your right. Is my is am I am I aligned or whatever it is that you need to look at, not looking at the other person next to you, be focused on you in that sense.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Yeah, I love that. Completely agree. Perfectionism is a myth, yeah, not a real thing. It should be taken to the dictionary as far as I'm concerned. There is no perfect ever, there's nothing perfect, you know. So yeah, I yeah, I absolutely love that.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Just enjoy your dancing, like just enjoy it, enjoy being able to move because one day you're not gonna be able to when you're older. Yeah, so just enjoy what you can do, and dance is just the most beautiful thing to be able to offer the world and to give yourself.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Oh, I love that. I mean, no better way to that. That is the perfect. I mean, we say perfectionism isn't thing. That is the perfect perfect way. Oh, honestly, Braun, thank you so much for giving up your time. And I'm gonna put all of your information in the show notes so people know where to find you. But thank you. We will be sharing, of course, all you know, your journey as we go so that people know where they can get the resources. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.