SPEAKER_03 0:02

Welcome back to Beyond the Studio. Today I am joined my father Dorotheo, Holly, and he's very special, followed the day special. Because behind so many young people pursuing crazy passions is often appearance quantely supporting them every step of the way. So welcome guys. How about a happy birthday?

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Hello. Hello.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

Hey, hey, Tom, what can I call you? Hey, hey. So I would love first of all to touch on your world in the arts because you're not a performer or artist yourself, but you have worked with them your whole life. So for anyone who doesn't know, what exactly does a tour manager do?

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Well, it's pretty much what it says on the team. You manage a tour, but there's a lot to it. The most important thing is what you do before you go on tour. Prep, flights, hotels, employing people to do the jobs, getting equipment in place, studying the contract, making sure we can afford to do what we want to do, go where we want to go and be comfortable. Because if touring is not comfortable, people won't do it. And uh it can be tough for the lower end of the market at the and then it can be tough at the upper end of the market because there's a lot of expectation, a lot of money, a lot of stuff involved. So basically, an artist will give me a schedule and they'll say, We want to do this tour, this is what we're earning. Can we do it? I'll do a budget, present it, we discuss it, we trim it, and then we say, Right, let's go, and then I put everything in action. So that's it's quite complicated in detail, but as an old dog now, having done it for 46 years, I it's kind of almost water off the duck's back, but I still are very intense about getting it right and making it good for everybody from the top to the bottom.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

That's a lot of pressure on your shoulders though, isn't it? Really?

SPEAKER_00 2:05

To it's it is, but it is, but it's kind of that you either you either you know you either thrive or you die doing it. Some people try it and are not very good at it. Some people are great at it, but no one likes them, and I'm just in the middle. I'm okay, I'm good at my job, and some people like me, and some people don't, and that's fine.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

Hey, that's life.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

There's a business, listen, like everything, it's a there's as much about personality as there is about ability. You've got to have a bit of both.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

I think that's such key advice, to be honest, especially for performers. I don't know if you agree, Holly, but for performers, and we say this all the time, you can be the most talented person in the room. However, if you've not got a personality to match it, if you're not able to interact, you know, we've said it, we say it all the time, don't we?

SPEAKER_02 2:56

But yeah, definitely. And I think it is so important to know that because a lot of the business within the creative art in general it is about connections and you might work your way into the door, but staying in is another thing. And Dad, I know that you have um quite a loyal base of people that you've worked with. Um you tend to sort of work with the same people multiple times.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

It's just about people who fit with you, because it's we we travel around the world, sounds very exciting, but it can be tough being away from home, uh living in hotel rooms, you know. I'd I'll say it getting on private planes and cars and airports and working with different local people in different countries with different cultures. And if you've got people with you that you like and you respect, it's a lot easier. Excuse me, if you're on it's not many people I I haven't got on with. There there are people that we will never speak again. They don't want to speak to me, and I don't want to they're few and far between in 46 years of doing this, and I still work with a few people regularly that I've worked for the last 40 years with. If they're available, I will get them.

SPEAKER_03 4:20

Are you able to name drop for us?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Well, I can do, but I mean uh I mean one of my one of my go-to guys is the guy called Alan Jarry, known as Tonto, because he has a lot of uh he he loves um Native American culture and uh he's just a standout guy. Loyal, committed, brilliant at his job, thoroughly nice and uh heart of gold. So he's but he'd be my standout one. Others it's a strange business because touring is a little bubble. And then I might work with people I really like and then I might not see them for two or three years. But when you see them again, yesterday was the last time you saw them, and tomorrow's the next time. It doesn't matter what the gap is, it's kind of weird. So I'll I'll s I'll stick with him, but yeah, uh I'll listen, we've got the guys on this tour I'm doing now, Robert Plant tour. All these guys have been with us for three years, and the great thing about this tour is that they'll make themselves available because it's a great tour to be on. And we like having them back because they're great people to have. You know, we've got a great team on this and you've got to stick with people. And the other advice is if you go into something and I always go in as a bot sort of excuse me. So if I pick up a tour with an artist I haven't worked for before, they'll have a system in place, they'll have people in place. You can't go in and ravage it, you've got to look at it, deal with it, keep the good bits, and then shave off the bad bits. Some people will go in and turn it all up so I'm getting my people in, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, but that's a mistake. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

Yeah, that's always good advice. I actually want to touch back on what you were saying about touring not always being comfortable, because I resonate with this on a much lower scale, but I had to do some touring for different jobs that I did, not around the world like you, but Europe. And also, as you know, my husband's a drummer, also done the same thing. And it's really interesting when you're younger, you're training, you're in college, it all sounds really dreamy, all going on tour, touring around the world, and you actually realise that you said it's not that comfortable. There's a lot of um trade-offs with it, you know, you're away from home. And I think that because there are a lot of dancers listening to this, there are a lot of parents whose children may want to go into the industry. I think it's really important to be really realistic about the highs and the lows of of it.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Yeah, I think there's I think highs are really high. I think the lows are are minimal. I'd say that there are days where you you're just non-plussed about everything because you're just tired, you've had enough. But the there aren't too many low lows. I think the the lows are just missing the people that you can't be with each day. Um but we've got this now. When I first did it, we didn't have this. I had to go to a payphone.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

I had to go to a payphone style 1-800-4455-667 and reverse the charges and we'd speak for ten minutes. And that was if they were in, because it was a landline. They might not be in at that time.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Or I might get up too late to speak to them. But now this is much better because we've got this. So you're in contact. Just be you know, find people you like when you're away and stick with them.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

No, and like I said, it's important now you can keep that connection in ways. And it's important to harness that.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Yeah. No, but obviously now I'm doing less and less work. I'm kind of peeling back on my retirement age this year. And uh I've peeled back, I'm just doing minimal amount, like four months a year. That is my goal.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

And you're joining us from Brazil right now, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 8:10

I'm in I'm in Porto Alegre, Brazil. Uh the morning's starting, and uh excuse me, I've actually got today off. I say that, I'm gonna do the old quote side because I don't actually get days off.

unknown 8:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

There's always I've got a meeting at 12, I've got another meeting at one, and then something will happen, someone will need something. But it's and then we have a show tomorrow. Then we go to Rio for three days, we've got a show there in Sao Paulo for three days, and then it's finished. Wow. And then we'll go back and come back. Yeah. Sounds exciting, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:46

Yeah. But it's that's the realities, isn't it? Like you said, it there are realities, and we've got one of our teachers at the moment, Elle, who is on a cruise, and it's we're gonna have a chat with her as well because it's important. Like you said, the highs are really high, but it is important.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Not the cruise, I hope.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

She's on a I don't where is she?

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Um not the Dutch one.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

No, no, no, let's not speak of no we like Zoom, but we don't want to go back to that, so let's not tempt fate. Um no, she's she's touring around around North America, I believe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Okay, well she she I mean, listen, I don't know about the cruise world. I've done cruising with like Aldi Bow, Kathleen Jenkins, and stuff like that, and I I hated it. I don't I love I don't mind the work in the in the theatre, but being on a boat, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Yeah, but that's it, it's um we're gonna have a chat with her as well because cruises are uh you know a common route for dancers and performances, so um, we're gonna chat to her as well about the realities of what it's like right now. And I guess one thing we really wanted to chat to you about today because you, um, like you said, you're in that creative world, you have a background knowledge. And when you had a daughter that said, I would also like to go into this creative world, were you ever? I mean, what were what was Holly like as a child when dance started becoming a big part of her life? And I think they'll start there.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Well, she was exceptionally lovely and cute when she was young.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Um, and as opposed to now, are you saying I'm not anymore?

SPEAKER_00 10:24

You're my daughter, I love you clearly, and I would never say anything back because you're a wonderful person for me, and I mean that to sincerely, um, and you know that, but she was always kind of extrovert. We've obviously she's got a brother, Jake, and it's kind of like two peas in different pods far apart. Jake is not into the sort of arts and the stuff, although you know he's a bit like me, with with kind of logical and mathematical, but we've got the other thing. And but Holly was always going to be doing something. And when she obviously, because her mum had done a lot of dancing and extra curricular activity outside of school, what can they do? Jake did a bit karate, Holly did dancing and she loved it. You know, Jake loved he liked he drifted in and out of things a bit more, but Holly stuck to dance from three all the way. And you can see she loved it, and we obviously paid what they had to pay to have it done because she loved it. It didn't really matter that she might ever go into it as a profession. But then when she did get to college age, having achieved fantastic results at school, better than her brother, which is still a source of great pain to him.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

Um Jake, that's really funny.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

I would rub it in his face for the rest of time as well.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

And she could have basically done anything she wanted to do. Anything. True could have gone to any university to get any kind of degree. I mean, Jake, God bless him, went to King's College London and got a math degree. I don't know where that comes from. Probably is my father. But uh but Holly decided she wanted to go to the dance college, which obviously cost money, but I knew she was passionate, and I'd yeah, I would never I would never say don't do it because of this, just go for it, see what happens, you know. Just go for it. Just if you're do what you want to do. If it doesn't work out, at least you've tried it.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

And obviously, having all your background knowledge on the creative industry, were you ever worried about her pursuing it? Because I think there's probably parents listening that you know could get nervous.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

I I would say I haven't had many tours where event dancers, which is maybe a blessing, I don't know. But I um because they are quite people that want things that I'm not used to giving, which is you know, they're like they're very they get a lot of time on their hands, they get very bored, and they start thing. But all the tours that I've done, all the tours that I know my friends do, you know, whether it be Take That or whoever has dancers. I mean, I did some Anastasia stuff and some um Shak and Khan and these dancers, we will, as professionals, look after them. They will never, never not be looked after. They are systematically funnelled to where they need to be, and if they need something, we'll help them out. So if they're working for a I think you look at the organisation more than you look at where they're going and who they're working for. Who's looking after them, who's their day-to-day guy. And normally someone like me or some friends of mine, and everyone I know looks after everyone. We we try to look after everyone from the boss to the guy driving the truck to the guy cooking the food, whatever. And they would be in in that group and they would get looked after. I would say their biggest their biggest enemy is boredom. They'll have a lot of time on their hands, they're gonna be coming in to you know, they'll keep limber and stuff, but if you're doing a show, a rock and roll show or at the end of the show, you're doing what, hour and a half a night, two hours a night?

unknown 14:09

No.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

The rest of the time you're in you're in the hotel room here, you're sitting about, you're doing nothing.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

You're completely right, because when I did um when I was touring, we used to have to be in for sound check, but we didn't do anything. We we were just doing that. And it and it it was it was hard work trying to keep your brain, you know, active and going. And so you're yeah, you're completely right. But actually, I think that's really comforting to hear and really good advice for the performer and the parent of check who the like I said, not just who you're working for, but who's looking after you from yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

I mean, you could be working for you know Bruno Mars, you could do whatever, that's fine. He's not looking after you. No, some guy that you don't know is looking after you, and you listen, everybody's got gut instinct when you meet the people who you're working with, you know whether they're good people or not pretty quickly. And most people in this business are pretty good because they don't last long if they're not. Going back to what I said about personality is as important as skill.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

Yeah, but do your homework, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Yeah, yeah, but no uh listen, you know, it's just you can find out what other tours they've done, and you might be able to find other people who've been on those other tours. You know, but I would say that this is a very professional business. If you're doing something mainstream, a mainstream artist, a mainstream show, mainstream cruise touring show, that you will probably be looked after. You know, and you won't have any problems. It's quite it's quite intense that that we try to make people as comfortable as possible. There's still there's still a bit of you know old-fashioned banter which is slowly disappearing. There's a lot of swearing, but that's just the day-to-day life of this business.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Can't protect everything.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

No, but people are respectful. And we've got to remember dancers aren't only girls, it's boys too.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

You know, and uh everyone everyone would be respectful of the other person's personality and look after them. You know, they wouldn't bully them into being part of the part of the lads or the thing, you know. You look after you've got to look after people whether they're strong or timid. And they I I I think they'd be pretty safe. You listen, you've got to go for it. They might not they might go for it and say I don't like it.

SPEAKER_03 16:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

You know, and so that's it, I'm not doing that again.

SPEAKER_03 16:30

And touching on that, I would love to hear from both of you, because you obviously supported Holly incredibly well through, like you said, your advice is go for it. You know, you were supporting her with it. You said, look, you love it, so let's let's invest in it, which is incredible. I would love to hear from both of you more how that support felt for you, Holly, and what your tips are, Pete, for supporting your child with that.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Yeah, for for me, it was I I never had that moment. I know that a lot of the people that we trained with did have that feeling with like, oh, my parents aren't super happy that I'm pursuing that or pursuing that. Um I never had and I'm very grateful for that because my parents are very grateful to effects in in all aspected efforts. Um I don't think all of that and advice that I'm going to give to anyone who is looking at the creative assets as an industry. I don't like some parents on the positive advantage in hand before an unstable industry. But I think if you come in to with your plan, when I said some of that, I want to go and dance it's just like, oh, I think I'm gonna dance and see what happens if that's if I want to get into this side of dancing, I want to get my teaching conversations, I've been doing this advice program, these are the advanced things that we've got, these are the fighting days we've spent you know, if you come in with a plan of like, I know the scary industry, but I promise you I've researched it and I've I've got the plan of how I'm going to make it work. That's probably going to be a little bit more trust because I think from a parent point of view, the can't speak as a parent. I think from a parent point of view, they're probably thinking, oh, this maybe plan is risky. And because we love you so much, we don't want to have risk or worry for you. Um but I think that's advice there is just you know, support them in what they want as best as we can because they will find their way to it. They will find their way out pretty well. And um from for me having that support meant that it was one less thing to worry about through my training. Um I didn't have to think, oh, but if I don't do this, I'm gonna be, you know, it's gonna be a disappointment or it's gonna be a worry for them. That was all completely taken care of and I could focus solely on my training. So that would be my perspective on it there.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

I think for me, it was less I feel like I'm probably it was less supported and less never discouraging. Because, you know, it's just if you want to do it, do it. It's not like, yeah, I wouldn't know it's not that, you know. It's not the side like the touchline dad, come on.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

Yeah, you're not pushing you're not pushing, yeah, you're not being the pushy parent, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

No, I'm just saying if that's what you want to do, let's go for it, let's do it. You know, and I had the same experience. I had a great job when I was 20 years old or 16. I started working in the city of London on computers at Lloyd's Bank and was getting good money. I was only working 15 days a month because of all the shift work. And then my friends became a famous band. They decided we were going on tour, did I want to come?

SPEAKER_03 19:46

So I said, Who that band was, Pete?

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Spandel ballet. Of course, you know, Holly's uncle Tone. And uh we we I told my parents, my father went I refrained from the word I'm gonna use and say crazy. Um but my mum just said, go for it, do it. And it was that that's the way it is. And I took I I thought I was gonna do it for a couple of years as a sabbatical, and here we are.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

And here you are.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

I went for it, and it's a it's an in my side of it, what I do. There's no career path. You fall into it and you you you sink or swim. And here we are. So it's just a lucky chance. But for Holly and Jake, whatever he wanted to do, we spent, excuse me, we spent hours driving him around the football matches with his referee and taking him to Kerala.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Good. We had some good times.

SPEAKER_03 20:45

I think it's just been so nice to chat to you because why don't you have such a unique perspective on the creative industry from the background of it, from maybe not the you know, you're not on the stage doing it, you're at the background of it. And again, that comfort to parents for those that are listening, going into it, but also the importance of what you've just spoken about of that belief from a parent for the child, and like Holly just said, she didn't have those anxieties or worries that she would disappoint you because you won't go for it.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

No, because there's nothing to disappoint. You've got to if you tried something and it doesn't work out, that's light. You know? And if you try something and you succeed, which you too have extremely well, it's very proud for a parent. So it's and I think there's as much pride in seeing someone go for it as there is doing it.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

Hmm. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Otherwise, you know, that's the that's the important thing, is seeing that they've got ambition and drive. If it works out, great, if it doesn't, they've still got they've done it, they've tried something.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

It's not always fixed for the outcome. You know, no, you've got to go for it. Because we all we've all tried and failed many, many times.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

You know, but it's you you girls have gone proud of both of you, you've done a great job.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

Well, thank you. Thanks, Pete.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

That's all right. No, no, no. What it's like to run a business, and I know what it's like to have stress from other people and be the person who's in charge, and it all relies on you. And I know that it's difficult. You've done a good job, you two.

SPEAKER_03 22:12

This leads me on actually to my closing question.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

Which is I would love to know what's something that you're proud of, not about achievements, but about the person that Holly has become.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Listen, all you can ask for is that you you like your children. If that makes sense. Yes. Because you're always going to love them. But you don't want to be going, oh, I can't believe he's like um. You know, Jake and Holly are well-rounded, polite, lovely people that the like the best thing about my children was other people telling me how lovely it was to have them around the house or how nice it was to meet them. Because I'm always gonna have a you know, tinted, rose-tinted glasses about my children. But when other people tell you they're lovely, nice, decent people, that's that's it. You don't you need no more than that.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

Oh, I love that. I actually couldn't agree more. Obviously, having Harvey now, I just like you said, you've got to like your children. You do, you've got to like the person they become.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

We don't all like all our family members all the time. But my children are not two of those.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

You've got a legend right here. You've got a legend. I can thank you for that too.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Um I'll just say that I'm proud of both of my kids that have done extremely well, and they're lovely, more than that, they're lovely people. You know, they care about other people, they're empathetic, and they're that's that's a gift. And you two, I'm proud of you too. I don't know you that well, Hayley, compared to Holly, but you've done amazing. Does make me smile. I think you you're both both obviously you're both well-rounded people, you've done a good job. I know what how hard it is for you to run this business, but I see the passion, and you've got you've got great organization skills. I mean, I could never have done all that stuff that Holly tells me you do. I'm still sitting there on, I'm still sitting there on a manual calculator. I do I do everything. I do, I refuse to do so much. People say, I'm gonna share a Google sheet with you. I say, no, don't do it. Do it. Send me a file and I'll open it up. And then they go, Oh, well, that's they send me an email going, this, this, this. I say, I'll phone you in one hour, get your pencil and paper out. Yeah, and then you're I'm gonna tell you how it's gonna go, and then you're gonna write to me to confirm it. That way, I don't have to write anything.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

Hey, there is nothing wrong with being a bit obstacle.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Oh, I love it. I I I have to speak to people because if someone says I'm gonna do this, this, this, and this on an email, that's fine until they don't. If I speak to them on the phone, I know whether they're serious or not. Whether they're actually the kind of person who's gonna do what I ask them to do.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Again, not bad advice.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

Not bad. Not bad advice at all.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Old school.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

I think we might take that on ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Yeah, but the only thing you the only thing now is you need it in writing. Oh, I didn't I never said that. So I always tell people that I record my conversations, but I don't go.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Yeah, you're revealing your secrets now. Like everyone's gonna know that you don't you don't actually record.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

I'm pretty sure not a lot of people I work with are gonna be listening to this. Just a chance I'm taking. Just a chance. I someone taught me something years ago. He always used to say to people when they said, I never said that, he said, I recorded that conversation, and they go, Oh, yeah, okay. Then and he said that if he ever went to court and they said, Well, did you record it? He said, Yeah, he used to take notes, and that in legalese is recording a conversation. So he didn't actually record records, but he always had notes, and he said that in if you don't court, that is legally saying that you recorded the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Yeah, I mean, I feel like we have diverted slightly from the podcast topic, but this is all very helpful information.

SPEAKER_03 26:23

It's all very helpful information. Yeah, then Pete, I've got one final closing question for you, and we always we do this on every episode, and it is if you could give one piece of advice to your younger self, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Don't start smoking.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

Yeah, that that is solid advice.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Yeah, I don't smoke anymore, but I'm like, I could have bought so many things. I I think I worked it out once how much money I'd spent on cigarettes.

unknown 26:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

It was something like 300 grand or something.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

Well, well, there you go, kids. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Well, if you if you if you if you think about smoking, just get 300,000 pounds and set fire to it and see how that feels.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

There you go. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

Thank you so much for giving up your time today, all the way from Brazil.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Yeah, it is a lovely town. I'll show you girls, the town where you're in the cuz you can if not the chat.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

Oh, pretty, beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Yeah, yeah, it's a weird, it's it's a it's a bit of a rough house. It's quite it's quite a danger town up as up there on the uh percentage ratings, but not as rough as Birmingham according to the statistics. Someone showed me a chart yesterday of rough towns and Birmingham was higher than here.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Yeah, oh dude.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

For this Father's Day special, and join us again for another episode of Beyond the Studio.