Living in the Hope of Jesus with Gary Schneeberger

I am THRILLED about today's episode featuring my dear friend and mentor, Gary Schneeberger. Gary is a seasoned PR Professional with his own PR firm, Roar, he is a husband, step-father, son, brother, friend, and most importantly a faithful follower of Jesus. 

Today, he shares his journey in sobriety, the verses that keep him strong in the Lord, and why his motto, "I am more than my mistakes and less than my accomplishments" has helped him frame his life in the light of the Lord's glory and love, rather than his sin or his good works. There are also plenty of laughs as I get to reminisce with my friend about fun projects we worked on, the gift of friendship, and the goodness of Jesus. I pray you are blessed and encouraged by Gary's story! 

Scriptures Referenced

• Romans 5:4-6

You can find me on Instagram / Threads

Transcript

Carrie 0:07

Hey everyone, welcome to Honey from the Rock. As usual, I am so glad you're here because I say that all the time. And today I have a treat for you. I am so excited to have my very first podcast guest on the show. And I'm telling you, like before we started, hit like we hit record. I was confessing to this guest, I'm so nervous and I'm sweating. And it is because this guest is not only a friend, but he has been a mentor. He was my boss at some point. So you know that he has plenty of stories of suffering and affliction that he that he can share that would really minister to the audience. But he is an encouragement. He's been a believer in this show since the very beginning. And those are just a few of his wonderful qualities. But he is a PR guru. I feel like it's the most appropriate word of guru for this guest. He has a wonderful family in Wisconsin. And most importantly, he is a follower of Jesus who loves the Lord and who has an incredible story of redemption and hope and faithfulness. And so I am so pleased to have my dear, dear friend Gary Schneeberger on Honey from the Rock today. Welcome, Gary.

Gary 1:27

It's I'm I'm honored both to be on the show and then to be the first guest. I mean, my goodness, that's uh I I I pray I can live up to it.

Carrie 1:36

No, you will. You will. And I wish so at some point, maybe I'll start video recording these, but video recording, I sound like I'm from the 80s. Um I'll get out my camcorder and start doing it. But Gary is rocking his yellow Dick Tracy hat today, which is spectacular. And actually, maybe that is where I will start. Because Gary, this hat holds a very significant place in your life, and I would love for you to share why that is.

Gary 2:03

Yeah. Well, thanks for that opportunity. Um it's not just because I like the movie Dick Tracy, which came out, I think, in 1990 starring Warren Beatty. Um I like that movie a lot, but um a couple of years ago in um uh journalist, ex-journalist doing math, I'm trying to figure out uh sober, so in 2022, there you go, uh was my 25th anniversary of uh being sober.

Carrie 2:32

Amazing.

Gary 2:33

And I decided uh because it's uh in 2022 was also my 25th anniversary of being a Christian, because I got saved about six months after I got sober, uh, and they were connected. But I I don't celebrate my Christian, right, my rebirth day because I really didn't have nothing I had nothing to do with it. Right. Jesus had everything to do with that. But I celebrate my sober anniversary because I did have something to do with that. I do have something to do with that every day. I can I choose not to drink, and life has not been easy those 25 years. I I will jokingly say my testimony and then talk about that. And then I got sober, and then life has been perfect ever since. Well, of course that's not true. Right. Um but when that was coming up, 25 years sober, I decided, you know what? And I like fedoras anyway. Yes. You know that.

Carrie 3:18

Um you're a hat man.

Gary 3:19

I am a hat man. But I was like, you know what? I love that hat that that Beatty wore in Dick Tracy, and and they don't sell them anyplace. So I I commissioned a Hollywood hat maker who had made fedoras for for Harrison Ford for the Indiana Jones movies. Okay, that's the guy that I hired for. What? The Penman Hat Company. Look it up, folks, online. Penman Hat Company. Uh John Penman, I I commissioned to make this hat for me from scratch.

Carrie 3:51

Oh my goodness.

Gary 3:52

And it's just it's just perfect. So would I normally spend the money I spent to have a Hollywood hat maker make something to put on my head? No. Would I do it to celebrate this at that anniversary? Absolutely. For sure. And it reminds me uh all the time of just the right, the yes, I had something to do. I had something to do with staying sober, but not everything. Yeah. And just, you know, to to to land the plane on this conversation, because I'm one of those guys when people say, and I understand I was in AA, right? That's how it started for me. Big fan of AA, but AA at the end wasn't enough for me to stay sober.

Carrie 4:26

For sure.

Gary 4:26

Because it was like a god of my own understanding. And I thought about that and I'm like, well, wait a minute. Isn't my own understanding what got me into this place?

Carrie 4:34

Isn't that the truth?

Gary 4:37

So that wasn't enough for me. And I so I believe that's when I accepted Jesus. Um, a few years after I got a few months after I got sober, and I believe that the Lord healed me of alcoholism. So I don't refer to myself as a recovering alcoholic. I believe I'm recovered. I'm I'm cured. Yeah. I'm healed from that. Uh in fact, yeah, should I uh I don't believe alcohol's demon hooch. Uh I'm perfectly fine. I always feel bad for people when I get together with them, and they're like, is it okay if I have a beer? I'm like, of course. It's not, I'm I'm not, it's not it's not tempting for me.

Carrie 5:08

It's the devil's brew. Right.

Gary 5:10

I'm I'm not doing that, but uh it's it's you know uh I just believe that the Lord healed me of it. I was never here's the thing, I I was never a burger and beer guy. I I never really liked the taste of alcohol.

Carrie 5:26

Yeah.

Gary 5:26

I always drank Crown Royal whiskey and cut it with cola so I didn't have to taste it that much. So I I believe I could pick up a drink right now and drink it and it wouldn't cause me to get addicted. I just don't care to, and I don't and I wouldn't like it anyway. So that's the story of my hat that you guys unfortunately cannot see.

Carrie 5:41

But we'll take a picture and I'll post it with the episode so that way they can see this fabulous fedora because I think too, I I love the story of I number one, I did not realize that it was the guy who had made Indiana Jones fedora. Like of course, of course it is. For those of you who don't know, out of Gary's extensive resume, is he spent a chunk of time in Hollywood doing PR for faith-based films and for Christian films and crushed it as usual. But um, what I love, here's what I love about the hat is to me, it is not only a symbol of your sobriety and celebrating the deliverance and the healing that the Lord has done in your life, but I is I see it as such an amazing token of how you approach your life. And that is one of the things that I really appreciate about you and something that you have actually taught me is how to celebrate things and how to mark things that are significant, but also even how to mark things that maybe we would think are insignificant, but just a cause for celebration and a cause to have joy in life. And I I love I love the way that you do that. And you taught me to do that by working with you. But I also think what is so significant about it, and it was something that we talked about before when we were trying to plan this episode and figure out what to talk about, is I love that you don't run away from your history. You don't run away from what's happened in your life. But when you the way you put it, I thought was so good. I am more than my mistakes and less than my accomplishments. And I want you to break that down for us. What what does that actually mean? And what does it mean in the Lord? And what has that meant for you?

Gary 7:22

Yeah. Thanks uh for that question. So where that comes from, just so you know, every year since I turned uh 50, I turned 60 last February, 61 this upcoming February. Good grief. Where did the time go?

Carrie 7:35

I have no idea. I'm still 25, so I don't know. Yeah.

Gary 7:39

Um and you still look it.

Carrie 7:41

Thanks.

Gary 7:42

Um the uh I I write um the number of my birth the number of my birthday years, um, things that the Lord taught me. So at 60 it was 60 things that the Lord has taught me in 60 years of all right, and in 59 it was. But when I turned 50, I started doing this thing and publishing it on Facebook. And I through the over you know, through the years, you're right, I like thoughts, phrases that help me focus on those things that that are important to me, that I want to remember. The phrase I've used to to to describe it, the hat is one of the examples, is and it sounds like an oxymoron, but it's not. I'm a I'm a visually tactile learner. Right? Meaning if if I can see this hat, I don't have to touch it, I can see it. It doesn't have to be tactile, but it's tactile in the sense that the hat reminds me. It doesn't remind me of how much I love Dick Tracy, it reminds me of this is my celebration of being sober for 25 years. So um that is uh where some of the most of the things that I put in my birthday note on Facebook come from. And this idea of um, and it's it's it's bookends, right? I am I'm more than my mistakes and less than my accomplishments. On the on the front end of that, I can be very uh and you've seen it, Gary. We work together and you've seen it. I can be very defeatist, I can be uh very dramatic. Um Did we just mean? Um I can be very dramatic and I can get down pretty quickly, and and there's reasons for that based in my childhood, based in being the youngest son, based in a in a in a in a difficult home environment when I was younger. I can get to that place pretty easily. So uh I I'm more than my mistakes. Important for me to remember because I can live in those mistakes, I can wallow in those mistakes. On the other end, though, the other end of that spectrum is I'm less than my accomplishments. I can also be someone that can feel his own oats a little bit.

Carrie 9:47

Sure.

Gary 9:48

Uh thank you for saying sure so quickly.

Carrie 9:52

Something else that I have said But it's still good.

Gary 9:54

That's an informed sure, folks. Um and and that's a reminder of, for me, again, saying that I'm I I'm less than my accomplishments, is that don't believe your own press, Sherbert. Or don't don't think that those things can't happen. And it's very funny. Um the greatest example I focus on the family, and you were here for this. The greatest example I focus on the family is when we did the Tim Tebow Super Bowl commercial. Yeah, and I did an interview, I did so many interviews, I must have done like 200 interviews uh about this.

Carrie 10:21

That's insane.

Gary 10:22

And um, one of them was with the CBS Evening News, and I'm thankfully it was being recorded, so it was it didn't go out on the air live. But I was being asked uh I'm being asked about this commercial, and I'm feeling so full of myself, and I'm feeling my oats, and I'm so cocksure about it all that uh you know my last line of my talking point was and I think we need more of that in this country, not less. The producer says in my earpiece, hang on a sec, I have a question for you. Or the produ someone else has a question for you. So I, folks, I folks, hang on a sec is what I was told. It's not a live interview, but it's being recorded. And I say, because I'm so just so feeling my oats about all the interviews that we've done and creating this Tim Tebow commercial that is that is it still is the most the most well-known Super Bowl commercial in a generation.

Carrie 11:16

Yeah.

Gary 11:17

And when I'm asked, hang on a sec, I say, I got all the secs you need. Meaning S-E-C-S, I'm I'm abbreviating seconds when someone says, hold on a sec, I got all the sex you need. That is a that's the definition of I am more than my accomplishment, I'm less than my accomplishments. Because I was thinking my accomplishments were were great, and that was the Lord's way of saying, Oh yeah, get ahead of yourself, young man. Uh and so that's the way it works, and that's that's really the way God sort of deals with me between these these ping-pong panels is when things are are are not going as well as I hope they will. Yeah. Um and that I just had that happen this morning. My wife is with me on this trip to Colorado Springs. Uh and you know, I had something happen, and I was, you know, I was running myself down and uh this is I've I've messed this up and I've done this. Have to remember that. And I remember that that I I'm I'm I I'm more than the things I mess up. Yeah, but I'm less than the things I get right. And I think life is best lived between those two ping pong pads is is not getting too high and not getting too low. But it's like the stock market. Yeah, yeah. You can take any day, any day if you've got a stocks, and it can be a bull market or a bear market. You can make money or you can lose money. Same thing with the way that you that you live your life, the way that you comport yourself. I can get too low or too high. The satisfaction is found in the middle of those two.

Carrie 12:50

Yeah, for sure. I love that thought because it's it's so true about the Christian life. It just as you were talking, it made me think about all of the things in scripture, especially in the Pauline epistles, where Paul encourages us to grow in maturity of our faith. And he talks about, I know how to be abased and I know how to abound. And he had found the way to live was to live in Jesus and to anchor himself in the Lord. And I find that so fascinating and so encouraging because I mean, Paul also reminds us consistently, I killed Christians before I came to Jesus. And then he'll swing to the other side and be like, I'm a bigger apostle than all of you, right? But in the Lord, I mean, he had such confidence and assurance in who Jesus was and what he had done for him, that he you can just tell in Paul's letters he had found that middle. And I think that is such a difficult thing for so many people, especially in the midst of suffering or affliction or difficulties where it's so easy for us to fall down into the pit of despair, like what you're talking about. Or when things are going great, to, you know, dance at the top of the mountaintop, not aware that we're so close to the precipice, we might, we might fall off and we get stuck in. And I it's something that you said earlier where you know Jesus purchased salvation for us. There's there's nothing I can do for my salvation but graciously accept it. But it's when we're in the pit of despair that we're like, where are you, Lord? What is going on? And we're at the top of the mountaintop and we're like, well, you know, I think I've done pretty good for myself. Exactly. And then something happens and you're like, okay. So I just I and again, living life between I love that you call them ping-pong paddles because it's such a good analogy because you do you bounce, you bounce back and forth.

Gary 14:49

And you feel like the ball is getting whacked around sometimes.

Carrie 14:51

100%. You know, it's like one day life is amazing, and the next day you feel like the rug's been ripped out from underneath you. So, with that kind of life motto, I don't know if that's a fair way to say it. Um, how does scripture inform those things? Like how how has the word played a role in defining what mistakes are, defining what accomplishments are, and but in the middle of that, really helping you lock into what is my identity as a son of God, as a child of God.

Gary 15:22

Well, that's a very small question.

Carrie 15:24

I know. We're just here to break down small topics on the Honey from the Rock podcast. We don't we don't delve into deep issues at all. It'll be fine. Um 20 words or less. Could you just tell me what your answer is to that?

Gary 15:37

The... um... I can't do anything. You know me. I can't do anything in 20 words or less. Right now I've said more than 20 years uh words in just saying what I've said.

Carrie 15:45

It's true. Before we started, I should have given you five words to insert into this podcast, which is a game that we used to play, you know, in PR. That's right. I should have done it. Dang it. Missed opportunity. Anyway.

Gary 15:56

Yeah, the for me it's it's interesting. My uh ever since I got saved uh in 1997, um my I'm not very strong at remembering, memorizing chapter and verse. What I am uh the way that that God helps me in in the regard that you asked about is the is the import of scripture, right? Certain scriptures. So where does scripture play in? I mean, I know that the scripture says don't be haughty, right? I know that the scriptures uh the scriptures are full of people who are haughty and things don't go well for them. Um I also know though that um we're not to be self-uh flagellating. We're not to be think that we're I mean to think that we're to even think that we're less than when we're when we belong to Jesus is not at all, I mean, that is is is enough to shock my system like you know, uh paddles to the chest, right? And the ER. This idea that I'm thinking this about myself, but I'm right, God called me his child. I mean, who am I to say that's not true? And it's I've always been since I got saved, I've never liked the saying that I'm just a sinner saved by grace because I was a sinner saved by grace, but that's not my status now. Because God looks at me and He doesn't remember any of that stuff, right? He separated me. If He separated me from my sin as far as the East is from the West, He's not looking at me and seeing that that I'm seeing. So when I see those things that are my mistakes, that's not the way God sees me. And I'm called to live in light of the way God sees me. Not on the uh on the negative end, but also on the positive end. God doesn't see me as, you know, I'm not like God's superstar, right? God doesn't God doesn't have a poster of me on his wall, right?

Carrie 18:05

Um all the gold stars for Gary today.

Gary 18:09

Right? So there's there's the I mean the the Bible the the emphasis on humility, that can be just as much of a struggle for me as it can be this idea of I'm less than. That's a my as I get older, my biggest struggle is this idea that I'm less than, that I I don't measure up, that I'm I you've heard the phrase imposter syndrome a hundred times. Um I I feel that a lot because I I have had some successes even uh in my professional life. And and uh but even then I look at those and and I can seem very self-assured, but I I'm not always so I'm always leaning into scripture to find to to zero in on what my identity is. That's the way it works for me. Can I quote you what those scriptures are just off the top of my head that no, because that that's just not the way God wired me. And I think it's been good for me because it's not that I know a lot about scripture in the sense that I can I can give you chapter and verse on the things that I'm talking about, but I know the import of them. I know what God says there, and those are places that I find comfort and I find direction.

Carrie 19:14

Yeah, absolutely. It's well, it's I mean, that's the essence of what David writes in Psalm 119, right? Your word I've hidden in my heart that I might not sin against you. And and the Lord looks for truth in the inward parts and makes it wisdom. That scripture is designed to be intricately woven into the fabric of who we are. It's not just words to memorize and platitudes to live by, but it actually is supposed to change the fabric of who we are because the word is Jesus. I mean, he is the word who became flesh, he has dwelt among us. And and to say, you know, I can't remember X, Y, and Z, but if it's engrafted into us, you know, I mean, it's James talks about it as well receive with meekness the engrafted. Word, which is able to save your soul. I mean, the power of that. The word isn't to just be held in our hands, but it's to be woven into our the very fabric of how we live. It's, I mean, be transformed by the renewing of your mind and just the power that the word, that the word has, and to have it so engrafted into our fabric that as we're living our life and as we fall down and we sin and we make mistakes, and the Holy Spirit uses it to convict us. But as we're crying out to him in joy or in struggle or whatever, and he's also bringing it to our mind that no matter where, I mean, it it makes me think of Peter when he says to Jesus, Lord, where would we go? You alone have the words of life. And that's that's how we're to live our life.

Carrie 20:45

But to keep it, it's just amazing to me. The word is never supposed to be separate from us. It's supposed to just be so completely ingrained into us. And so I love that. I have the opposite problem. You know, I grew up a pastor's kid. I was in a wannum. It was a competition to see who could memorize the most scripture. I won an award for that. That was very bad for me because, you know, then be, you know, learning the word and memorizing scripture became a competition. But Jesus in his graciousness has used it in the same way to make sure that it was engrafted into me and to be what I what I live by and my barometer rather than I can rattle off 17 scriptures and you know, pastors' kids or the worst. And I'm walking around with their big old Bibles, whacking everybody with it.

Carrie 21:41

But I think it's so important, and I think that's part of what is so encouraging is all of us have some sort of facade, right? We all have some way that we project ourselves to people around us, to the world. We're known, we are known. This world measures us by our mistakes and measures us by our accomplishments. And what is amazing is that the Lord doesn't. What is the most important to him is did you know me and did you do what I called you to do in my kingdom? Right. Right? Did you love me and did you love my people? And I I mean, and having failed horribly at both of those, and but also seeing the Lord grow me and how to do those in the spirit, I just, I love, I just, I love this, this, these bookends to say, you know what, Lord, you're right. I can't, I can't drown in the mistakes that I've made, in the sins that I've committed, that I have repented for, and that you have forgiven. You mentioned as far as the East is from the West and scripture talking about the Lord puts our sins behind his back.

Carrie 22:50

If the God of the universe can do that, who am I to say, no, that's not enough? Like, I need to just make sure you know how really sorry I am and fla, you know, self-flagellation, just beat ourselves over it because that's an abuse of the Lord's grace. But then to also look at the things that we accomplish and be like, man, I really crushed that. So amazing. And the Lord's like, you literally can't breathe without me. So let's let's have some perspective. And I think we don't live in a moderate society anymore.

Gary 23:23

Interesting.

Carrie 23:24

You know, we don't live in moderation of emotion, moderation of time, of um relationship.

Gary 23:33

The importance of our viewpoint.

Carrie 23:35

Yes, exactly. Right. There's yeah, it's ours, ours is always the most important, you know, and people could be like, well, yeah, Carrie, you started a podcast. You know, I don't recall anybody asking you to do that. We'll just table that for a while because you know the Lord did ask me to do it. He told me to do it. But just to your point of we don't, we don't live in the middle of these things. We live in the extremes. And so I think it is so encouraging to hear that there is that is what scripture calls us to. It is what scripture calls us to, it is what the Lord calls us to. We will never Tim Keller says, you are more deeply sinful than you could ever imagine, and you are more ultimately loved than you can ever know. And I and that's it's the same. Right. It's the same concept. So I love that. So one of the things we talked about so within this is I would love for you to just share with people your life verse. What is the verse that's really kind of helped you stay in this lane?

Gary 24:39

All right. So thank you for thank thank you for giving me the opportunity, and thank you for giving me time to actually, because as I said, I'm not a chapter and verse guy.

Carrie 24:48

Right. And I literally am like, hey, Gary, just pull that out of the top of your head. Good podcast host.

Gary 24:53

And as you're asking me, I'm going, I'm not going to remember. But here it is. It's uh Romans 5, 4 through 6. Uh, and the idea that endurance and produces character, step one. Character produces hope. Hope does not put us to shame because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. This idea that there's a step, there are steps you can follow. Endurance gives you character, character gives you hope, and hope does not put us to shame. That to me, well, the reason that that is so is so uh meaningful to me is that's the way I try to live in this idea that it's a building block process, right? And if you if you look at scripture, if you if you if you read scripture, you you process scripture, you hold scripture as a step-by-step process, you never think you've arrived. And that's one of the blessings I think I've had by being someone who can't rattle off the chapter and verse that easily. I'm going to try to remember uh uh First Corinthians 13.

Gary 25:55

And I I I had a little I had most of it. It was like the easiest one to remember, except for you know, for God so loved the world, right? Um but that idea of the step by step, there are steps we can follow. And that the that's the way God works out his righteousness and is that we follow those steps. And that that has been such a pivotal thing in my life. I mean, right now, very interesting, Carrie, to me anyway. Um I have and folks, wait for her reaction when I say these things because she's gonna she she will laugh with she will laugh with recognition when I say this thing. Like two of the things I I s you know when God saved me in 1997, he he took a lot of things out of me. Alcoholism, um uh many things that were not healthy habits. Some things stuck around.

Carrie 26:46

Yeah.

Gary 26:46

Because he wanted to teach me things through those things. And one of them is here we go, folks, wait for the laughter. One of them is temper.

Carrie 26:56

Oh yes.

Gary 26:58

Right? One of them is I can have uh anger and having a having a temper that's not always under control can be an issue for me. And there's also a second one, and that is if I see something that I like, I buy it.

Carrie 27:15

Yes.

Gary 27:16

I can attest to this. So what I've done for the last three months, uh, I have this wipe board that I have hung on the door of my home office. And it's it's like those those boards uh the that are up in board places. 37 days without a lost time work injury.

Carrie 27:35

Right.

Gary 27:36

So I just write on there two numbers. Top one is number of days since I've had an inappropriate anger outburst. That's the first one. So it's one number slash second number is days since I purchased something I didn't need that was over 25 bucks or something like that. Like if I buy a piece of candy, I don't need, I'm not gonna because then it would just be zero every day. Um the the beauty of that process for me is not to look at it and say, either I'm more than my mistakes, either, man, I'm so bad. I got two zeros, right? It's not about that, nor is it about look at that, I'm I'm slaying it. I got a streak. I've got a hundred, no, it's uh it's it's the the knowledge of that's something that God's called me to control my my emotions, control my anger, my unrighteous anger, and also to to you know to steward my finances wisely. Yeah, and what this simple process has done, and it's funny, my stepdaughter saw the number, she's seen the numbers for like two months, three months as I've been doing it, and finally they've changed over time, right? And she's like, What does this because it was like 10 and 4 or something? She's like, Is it I'm like, no, and I explained what it was. She thought I was 6'7. Right. She thought I was just like saying 10-4, good buddy, or something like that, you know.

Carrie 29:02

But what it does would also not be out of the realm of possibility. I will just throw that out there.

Gary 29:07

But what it's done for me is it's truly last night, great example. There's a there's a um there's a uh a little fun bar in in Colorado Springs called the Golden Bee.

Carrie 29:18

Yes.

Gary 29:18

My wife Kelly and I went there last night, and we walk in and they've got merch, right? Oh yeah, and they had this cool ball cap that said Bee on it. She said Bee. And I was like, oh, I want to get that. And then I looked, I picked it up and looked, it's 50 bucks. Okay.

Carrie 29:37

Yeah, of course it is. It's the Broadmoor.

Gary 29:39

Do I need it? And I I wrestled with that. But ultimately, I walked away and I didn't buy it. And part of the reason that that was able to happen is that God has dropped that notion of keeping track of those dates on me. And it's it's proving beneficial, it's proving to help me live within the margins that we've been talking about.

Carrie 30:00

I love that. I love it, and it fits in with what you were talking about earlier, being like visually tactile, like just the this is how the Lord speaks to me. This is what he's using to help me, and it's not punishment and it's not exaltation, but it's how he's catching your conscience and how you're submitting to him. And that's I think that's huge. We all have different things, things like that in in our lives. And I just, A, I I think that's amazing and I love how the Lord is using it. And B, I just really appreciate your vulnerability with that. It's it's not often easy to share the areas that are that can be humiliating for us in some way, right? You know, it just is, you know, it's not it's not fun, but I appreciate you sharing those things.

Carrie 30:45

And I hope that people hear this and take away or see patterns in areas where Jesus has been trying to catch their attention to say, hey, this is not about throwing you in the ground or exalting you to high heaven, but I want to help you. I'm literally here to help you, conform you into my into my image. I want you to be with me and to be like me and to have my nature. And so thank you for sharing that because and and now you've got me thinking. Now you've got me ruminating in my own way of okay, Lord, what are what are ways that what are things that you have that you have pointed out to me?

Carrie 31:20

Because we are very similar in in a lot of ways. And in one way that we are very similar is I can just go down into the depths of despair and really pound myself over mistakes that I am notoriously hard on myself. And the Lord convicted me about it here probably a year and a half ago by showing me that that is actually pride. It's not, you know, my it, it that's not humility. It's not, it's actually just wallowing in self-pity when I've made a mistake. Like the blood of Jesus isn't powerful enough to actually cleanse me from all unrighteousness when I confess these things to him. And so just showing me that, and and also areas of insecurity that I've operated in where I have colored them with shades of humility, it actually isn't. It's pride. My insecurity is my own pride being stung, and and the Lord saying, You need to, you need to recognize that for what it is and actually truly humble yourself before me, because I can I can also have pride in you know the mountaintops and the successes that I've had, and also fall down into that deep pit. And but both of them are pride, they're two sides of the same coin.

Carrie 32:37

And the Lord's really challenged me in that area the last year and a half to really say recognize it for what it is, name it for what it is, and then to say, you know what, Lord, I I don't want to be too high or too low. Just help me to learn, help me to learn how to just keep mature, growing and maturity in my faith, my maturity and knowing you, and how to self-regulate. You know, I mean, it's and that's hard. Yeah, it is hard because we want to feel what we want to feel sometimes. Sometimes we really enjoy it down here. Absolutely. Down here in the pit. And sometimes it is awesome off top.

Gary 33:14

But what we've both described is so interesting, Carrie. It describes the verse, right? Yep. Right? We've talked about what we've just talked about is how endurance, how endurance produces character. Yes. Step one, yep. You endure, you go through, right? You you endure the, yep, I got a cross off on my board that I have got mad for the first time in 51 days. Darn it, I'm back at zero. Yep, that endures, that endurance happens, but it produces character. Character produces what? Hope hope. Right. And that's that's when things begin to turn. Yes. You hang on, you've got character. Okay, great. Now your perspective begins to shift, you get hope. And then hope does what? It does not to shame. And that's when, again, we're not, I mean, not being put to shame does not mean you've arrived. Right. It just means you're a work in progress and the work and and the arrow is pointing in the right direction. And I think that um we tend to think that we that and I I am guilty of this, right? God just loves it when I take a victory lap, right? When I have and and and no, he he loves it when when I live in a place where I'm not ashamed.

Carrie 34:20

Yeah.

Gary 34:20

Where I've taken the steps, I've done, I've done the thinking, I've done the praying, and I've landed on not living in shame. I think that is what brings glory to God and makes him happiest for his kids.

Carrie 34:35

I love that. You know what? I think that is actually a really good place to land. I just plane's on the ground. Plane is on the ground. Oh my goodness, my friend, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your story and for being willing to be my first guest. I am really proud of myself because I made it through this episode without crying. I was pretty sure that I was gonna start crying just because, like I said to you before we started, how much your years of friendship and mentorship have meant to me. And when I was making a list, because I knew the Lord was shifting the way that the podcast is done, just a little bit, not a ton, but I wanted to have people on. And I told my mom, it's like the first person I have to have on is Gary. You've just been such a huge supporter and encouragement of this, and I I am eternally grateful to the Lord for the gift that you have been to me in my life, my friend.

Gary 35:26

Thank you for that. I'm gonna extend your show by just a little bit and say something to you. And that is um, it was interesting. I've um uh so I don't have any biological children. I have um a young lady who I call a heart daughter, Heather. Hi Heather, if you're listening to us. Um uh I have heart grandchildren, she has three kids. Um I have two stepkids now with my wife Kelly, and I say all that to say um I've uh like all that happened in my late 40s, and I've I've struggled with this idea that I have a legacy. And when I see you, and my when I hear the show. No, it's not me, I mean it's you, but there's a little sliver, but there's a there's a comma, there's a semicolon, there's something in there that I I I think I've helped along that process, and that is legacy. Kelly and I went with our pastors. We got uh because I know the band for King and Country, we went to a show and they were talking about they were having a dialogue, they were they were having a discussion in between songs, and uh Joel said something, Joel Smallbone said something about legacy. And my wife Kelly elbowed me and looked at me and smiled. And she said, Yeah, you worry about that, but you know, you have that legacy.

Gary 36:51

And that sitting here, I could not be prouder of you. Not just for what you're doing with the show, but that but that you're doing the show, that you fought back those uh those those fears and those I can't do it. Uh and and again, you're you're less than the fact that you're killing it, but you are killing it. Uh and uh I you know I couldn't be happier for you, I couldn't be more proud of you. Um so congratulations. And keep up the good work.

Carrie 37:20

Thank you so much. I will just say it's bigger than a comma, bigger than a semicolon. The Lord knows, the Lord knows the ripple effect that your your mentorship and your friendships had in my life. So thank you.

Gary 37:32

Thank you.