Why Being a Leader at Work Makes Your a "Bully" At Home

If you’ve ever been called a "know-it-all," a narcissist, or felt like you were "lawyering" your partner, this episode is for you.

High-achievers often rely on authority and "being right" to succeed in business, but that same strategy acts like quicksand in a relationship. When you prioritize your dignity over the connection, you aren't leading—you’re bulldozing.

In this episode, we break down the "North" on the Relational Compass. We explore the psychology of self-awareness and how effective communication is often derailed by the need to feel valued for our thinking.

In this episode, we unpack:

• The "Wall of Words": How layering your partner with facts creates a barrier to intimacy.
• Adaptive Strategies: Why the "bully" or "know-it-all" is actually an old survival strategy from childhood.
• The Authority Axis: Moving from "holding authority" to "preserving peace" without losing your dignity.
• Objective Truth vs. Relational Truth: Why arguing about "facts" is anti-relational.

Stop fighting the person. Start dismantling the pattern.

🧭 Is your relationship stuck in a loop? Audit your "Operating System" with the Relational Compass:

https://www.lipcouples.com/compass

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https://www.lipcouples.com/

Connect with Us

Work with Emily and Kelly for Couples Coaching

Connect with Emily on IG @emilygoughcoach

Connect with Kelly on IG @iamkellygardner

#highperformancecouples #visionarymarriage #communicationmechanics #leadership #loveinpractice #personalgrowth #selfawareness #relationalintelligence

Transcript

The "Identity Shock": When Leaders Become Bullies A vulnerable look at how successful professional leadership strategies can accidentally become "bullying" patterns within a marriage.

SPEAKER_06 0:00

You realized that you were the one who'd always stood up to all the bullies and that you had become the bully. Not across the board, just in certain instances of conflict in our relationship, you were realizing that you had become the bully. And I actually felt really I felt this relief that you could see it.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

If you've ever been called a know-it-all or a narcissist.

SPEAKER_06 0:27

Or if you've ever felt lawyered, bulldozed, or shut down in conflict, this episode is for you.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

We're breaking down what's actually happening underneath this pattern, why it feels so hard to connect, and how to shift this identity without losing your dignity.

SPEAKER_06 0:41

I'm only cop, a relationship coach. I spent years exploring how we connect to grow and heal in love.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

And I'm Kelly Gardner, an embodied leadership coach and communications consultant. Love isn't theory, it's practice. This is love and practice. Let's grow this. No matter what comes up, they've thought it through, they've got a great answer for why they're doing exactly what they're doing. No matter what it is, they cannot be wrong. And when you get into fights with them, what happens? They pull back and they wait for you to come back and apologize or accept your defeat or accept where you have been wrong so that they can continue the conversation. But until you can, we're good. We don't need to talk about it. And oftentimes this man, this woman, gets labeled as a narcissist. I know I've been there. I know that I have ex-partners that have made that argument about me. And today we get to talk a little bit about what is actually going on for this person, uh, what is showing up for their partners, how this pattern plays out, and most importantly, how we can reframe it in a way that is beneficial for both parties and gets to create a really romantic, loving relationship with lots of connection and far less individualism. Ooh, God, even just saying that. Ooh, letting go of my individualism. Oh, my freedom. Oh, my swan song. So, Emily, I'd love to hear from you a little bit more about what this uh experience has been for you. Uh so that we can talk a little bit about how we have worked around and worked through it.

SPEAKER_06 2:24

For the record, I have never thought that you were a narcissist, but that's all right. I'll take it. I remember as we were putting this upset together, I remember an argument we had uh driving back from Canada. So it was a 12-hour road trip. And this argument happened quite early in that particular trip as well. So it was a long drive.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Long drive.

Adaptive Strategies: Why We Revert to Childhood Survival Understanding that "unhealthy" behaviors are actually learned strategies designed to meet needs when we feel our dignity is challenged.

SPEAKER_06 2:45

There was, I think at one point we didn't speak for like three straight hours. Um, there was a whole conversation that we had, and I I vaguely remember how it got started, but I don't remember how we got to where we got, which was you actually owning to me in the car, you realized that you were the one who'd always stood up to all the bullies and that you had become the bully. Not across the board, just in certain instances of conflict in our relationship, you were realizing that you had become the bully. And I actually felt really I felt this relief that you could see it because I'd been trying to explain that to you for several months already. Just again, in those very specific moments, I I could see it, and I didn't know how to frame that to you in a way that would be better received. But my experience um sometimes had been and sometimes has continued to be in particular moments. Um you have every answer. Uh, I think we've perhaps talked about this on previous episodes where I often feel lawyered by you. Um that's how we'll phrase it. Is you phrase it as a wall of words, and I phrase it as like, you just keep lawyering me. And what pissed me off about that more was that I was used to being the one who would lawyer everyone and out talk everyone. And then I met you. And you outlawyer me every time. And what that um then, you know, in the reciprocal and in the next few episodes, we're going to be breaking apart various versions of this, including mine. I think I will be on the chopping block the next one. Um, that would also bring up a lot of shame for me, not feeling like I was good enough. So this pairing of you being the so-called know-it-all and being the best judge of everything, also coming across as a little bit of a bully in these uh more adaptive expressions of you. Um that would, of course, perfectly counteract with my own wounding and throw me down my own shame spiral as a result.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

So for those out there that are going adaptive, what? Talk about these adaptive expressions.

SPEAKER_06 5:12

It's the idea that we you and I don't even like uh referring to uh these versions of ourselves as unhealthy per se, because they're simply strategies. We talk about this a lot in this podcast, that the things that we do to show up a particular way, to get certain needs met are strategies that were learned very early on about how we needed to adapt as children to survive and to find ways to thrive, no matter what uh set of circumstances we were we were in. And as adults, that thread continues to carry through where we are grown-ass humans, we're, you know, in relationship with our partner, and something happens, something is said, there's a particular expression given that's misinterpreted, a miscommunication, and all of a sudden that little inner child comes out and we start reverting to that uh more adaptive expression of ourselves that is just trying to meet our own needs.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Yeah. You know, you were talking about that trip uh from Canada, road trip. And in that three hours, do you remember what happened uh while we were not talking? I put on a book on tape uh during that quiet time.

SPEAKER_06 6:30

Oh, I think that that may was was that oh yes, that's the one.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Well let's just pretend it was that trip. I don't think it's a good thing. No, no, it was.

SPEAKER_06 6:36

It was it was later in that trip. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

No, it was Terry Real.

SPEAKER_06 6:40

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

I did.

SPEAKER_06 6:41

This is where we started to fall more in love with Terry.

Core Negative Images: How We Project the Worst How "shitty" beliefs about our partners create a frame that filters out their positive qualities and reaffirms conflict.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Yes. In the heart of our own conflict. Yes. Uh this was actually before we started working with him. Uh, at we we came across uh some of his work where we were listening to one of his book. I think it was us. Uh and us or fierce intimacy, one or the other, I can't remember which. Yeah. We were talking, it was talking a little bit about um some of these ideas, particularly core negative images, I believe, is what we we started talking about. And it gave us an opportunity to really look at some of the ways that we had been negatively seeing and projecting on each other in that in that conversation.

SPEAKER_06 7:18

You are examining the parts of yourself that believe the absolute worst about your partner. Yeah. So when they are pissing you off, when they are showing up where their little inner child is taking over, whatever, whatever form that's taking, it's like, okay, what what are those um what do I believe about my partner in those moments that is kind of shitty? Now, is there perhaps a shred of truth in in that core negative belief in particular moments? Yes, there's usually a shred of truth, not a whole truth, but a a tiny little piece of. But to share that with your partner is probably going to touch on potentially their own wounding. And for some, it could also press on the worst things that they already believe about themselves. Um, they could make it so much worse. So you need to be either extremely relationally skilled or and or even for us, it was a little bit of a risky gamble to play, to be honest. It worked out well, but it could have gotten far worse. Uh, I would also suggest getting support if you were going to do that type of exercise.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

And so getting back to the men, the people like me, um, we'll talk about this as our frame of being a man in the north or woman in the north. Uh, but that core negative image of me was what I was reflecting back earlier, the narcissist. Now, narcissism is a scale, and highly do not recommend diagnosing your partner in any way, shape, or form. That is not going to be beneficial to your relationship. Leave that to the professionals, and even then reflecting back that labeling to them generally is not going to be helpful. Um, that is going to be what Terry would refer to as a one-up positioning. Ultimately, there is some truth to that behavioral scale, right? That there are tendencies that would tend towards narcissism.

SPEAKER_06 9:30

And and to be clear, just to explain narcissism to people, you and I share this belief that uh I really feel that the term narcissist gets thrown around way too often, um, especially in the online space, pop psychology and narcissism is very much a spectrum. And we all as humans have some version of narcissistic traits. It's just a matter of where you fall in the spectrum. And I think that far more people get referred to as narcissists who actually aren't. I also don't believe it's really our job to diagnose anyone.

The Relational Compass: Auditing Your Connection System An introduction to the four directions and the two core axes: Holding Authority vs. Preserving Peace.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Sure. Yes. But the diagnosis and looking at my partner and saying, God, they're a narcissist now is going to not only create this coreing of image, but what happens in that is that we tend to see things through the frame that we are already holding. So if I believe that that is who my partner is, then I'm more likely to see their actions through that frame and reaffirm that core negative belief about them. Uh and so we start to pin these individuals that we want to be so loving to and expansive to and and and and believe in, reduce the possibilities of who they can be, closing them in. Uh and so one of the things is, you know, as I said before, the know-it-all, um, the bully, the the narcissist, uh, the the controller. All of these can be the negative projections of this person that shows up as we will talk about more in the north. Uh but also we have the positive projections, which are the leader, the visionary, the person who has a uh a deep sense of integrity and uh a a compass uh that directs um. So having said that, let's talk a little bit about the compass itself, uh the tool that we use for helping people to better understand what their uh patterns and tendencies are, and um kind of how we arrive at this space of uh the directions of the north and south, the east and west.

SPEAKER_06 11:41

So we have the the four different directions, and there's also an axis on either side. And this is a whole assessment tool that we've put together over the last few months. Many, many late hours on my incredible husband's part, by the way, putting all of this together. I'd like to brag on you real quick, and figuring out not only everything from the tech to everything else. Um, and there is the line of one side of the axis is more holding authority. And that tends to be where the north is very strong. Uh, the other end of that is preserving peace. Now we will get into these other compass directions in more detail over the next few episodes.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

And at the core, if we back up for just a second, what we're really looking at are two of the most impactful experiences that we have in relationship. One is what happens to us when the connection in the relationship is challenged. And the other piece is what happens when our individual dignity is challenged. These two uh core uh identities become central to how we are going to show up with each other in relationship. We've seen these over and over. A lot of this is actually drawn from uh the work that Terry Real has done as well, looking at very similar uh approaches to relationship. But what we see with our clients, what we have seen with ourselves, is these two aspects are at the core of how we shape the patterns that really come up into how we interact with each other. What happens when my dignity is challenged? In other words, my perception, the perception that you're holding of me is challenged against what I believe myself to be. What do I do in those circumstances? And then when connection, when I feel that connection is slipping away, what do I do to preserve that connection?

The "North" Profile: Visionary Leadership or "Know-It-All"? A deep dive into the North identity—the desire for information, consistency, and why smart people feel rejected when they aren't "right".

SPEAKER_06 13:46

So I'd love to hear from you a little bit more. What is it like for you? What is your experience of being more in the north? And how does that show up for you on your side of the equation in relationship?

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Absolutely. Thank you for asking. Uh you know, the first thing that I'd say is you know, I'm I'm probably a northy north. I'm a very northy north. He's a very northy north. I'm also I'm also an aquarium, which means I have a deep desire to know. It's one of my core identities. I just want to know.

SPEAKER_06 14:24

Also a strong visionary.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Visionary, I I project out in the future, I'm always looking at patterns. Uh, I'm I'm a nerd at my core. So to me, the pursuit of information and knowledge is just a core love and passion. And one of the biggest pains in my life has been being referred to as the know-it-all. That this misunderstanding of me is that I need to be right in order to have a place. And that just doesn't feel true to me. I'm very I'm fine if you don't agree with me. I'll still think I'm right. I and it's not because I I don't need you to believe that I'm right. I just I haven't heard anything that has disproven the pers perspective that I've given. But if you do disprove it, and I think you would say this is very accurate, if you give me something that I'm I'm like, oh, wow, yeah, I didn't think about that way. That's that's new information, that's that's different. Uh I was completely wrong. I'm happy to be, I'm more than happy to be wrong. So it's it's a difficult place to be in. Um and often I feel it's projection that people are putting on to me, and oftentimes my judgment is because they actually need affirmation that they're valued for their their thinking. Uh, and it's more about their need to be right. I'm happy to end the conversation with, we just don't don't agree. And so that's a that's a tough one. That that's always been a tough one for me. But what's underneath it, if I go dig a little bit deeper, there is a version of me that believed that I wasn't very smart growing up. Um there was a part of me that felt I need to prove myself and prove my intelligence all the way up to being a university professor and uh dean of a college. You know, that was that was a constant proving that I was smart enough. Uh I don't experience myself that way anymore. I feel as though I feel very comfortable with myself at this point. I haven't always. Uh, but there's still pieces of me that uh when challenged will feel the need to uh respond in a way that reassures, reaffirms that I am smart, I'm intelligent, I've thought this through. Uh and more importantly, I'd say the thing that I'm working on currently is moving into this role of authority. I understand, I know, I've put in so many years of work on this thing. Yes, I obviously I know. Give me some credit here, that is very anti-relational. And so that's one part of it. The other part of it is uh the again, I don't need you to agree with me. We disagree, fine, I'll give it some space. I don't need to come back and continue to have the disagreement or the argument. I'll give it space, as much space as you need. Uh and when you're ready, if you want to come back, great. But I don't need to hammer it home, and me hammering at home feels like the thing that pushes people away. So that comes off as my withdrawal. So I I'm good. We don't want to talk about it anymore. Fine, I'll go do my thing. Happy to you know, the joke about me as a kid is you put me in a corner with a sack of rocks and I was good for hours, only child, you know. So uh I'm happy to continue doing that. Uh again, anti-relational. I don't seek uh to resolve uh or to come back to the the connection. I trust that the connection will come back to itself in its own time, with space and time in my visionary world. And so that again has me pulling back and holding authority.

From Positive Projection to Controlling Patterns Why we are attracted to a partner’s "leadership" early on, only to reframe it as "controlling" as the relationship grows.

SPEAKER_06 18:54

Well, first of all, thank you for for sharing all that. And the other thing that I I think needs to be spoken to, yes, you spoke about some some of the mature qualities as well. Um, you know, the the visionary and um just holding lots of information and the leadership that comes with that, the decisiveness, the clarity, all of that is super powerful. And I also just want to speak to the safety that that provides as your partner, that there is deep consistency that you bring that is unmatched. I I regularly, for our entire relationship, I have told people, I'm like, no one is as consistent as my husband. And sometimes in the ways that have also pissed me off, like, you know, consistently pissing me off particular things too. But overall, clear in a way, like by far, you are just so beautifully consistent. Um even even when I am irritated, I can still count on it on particular things with while still giving you room to grow and change. Um, but it's the safety that that brings is invaluable. The leadership, everything else, like it is it is a really huge gift to get to be with someone who embodies the qualities that you do so deeply.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Yeah. And I think that's the interesting thing that happens. We start out with the positive projection of our partner. Almost inevitably. We wouldn't get into this relationship if we weren't seeing them in the positive projection. And in that first age relationship, hormones are firing. I'm just seeing the positive projection. The positive projection of this person is their leader. They've got their shit figured out. They have they can hold it down. They they they're clear on who they are, they're clear on where they're going. Um they they've done some pretty pretty awesome things generally in their lives. Um, and they they seem like, you know, they're adulting. Like they're uh they're kind of adulting, you know. And then we get into relationship and they're controlling, they're manipulative, they're fill in the blank on all the negative projections. And so we start to make that shift as the relationship grows, and it's hard to come back to the other perspective.

SPEAKER_06 21:31

And I also just want to, I'd love to hear from you a little bit, and I'll share my experience of you um with this as well. This whole idea of the compass that we're talking to everyone about. Um when you started uh putting this together and we were going back and forth on the questions to put in the assessment, and really like they're very this is very intentionally put together, you guys, like every step of the way here. And when you started putting it together more seriously, we had, this was months ago, we had a breaking point in our relationship. Unrelated, just you know, in other ways. So we have kind of gotten into a little bit on this, on this podcast as well. And one night, uh, just a couple days, I think, after that, you came to me and I was doing my own thing. It was late at night, and you're like, hey, can I share something with you? And I think we'd barely spoken all day. And I was like, sure, you know, I was open to it. I was looking to connect if you were available for it. And you shared with me the results of this first kind of initial test run of the compass. And it walks you through some of the more, you know, positive qualities that everyone wants to read about themselves. And, you know, you were, and I was I was getting emotional reading that because I I felt seen on your behalf almost. I was like, yes, like this sees him and the really beautiful qualities that you embody. And then it hit some of I don't even want to call them negative, again, like more adaptive strategies.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

The subtle dominator.

SPEAKER_06 23:12

The subtle dominator. But you know, the way it broke it down and described it, I started crying because I again felt that I was like, oh my God, this is putting into words, but I have been so trying to get you to see, not because I think you're an asshole, but because I'm like, hey, I need you to look at this, and I am happy to support you in this area to do whatever I can do to meet you in these areas, but I need you to see it, or we're not going to be able to grow through it. And that was really powerful. And then you showed me mine as well, and it was also very dead on, like almost astonishingly so. Um, and you know, the the same thing for me. Like again, we'll we'll get into me in the next one, don't worry. Um, but I just really want to underscore that because that was months ago. You and I, I feel are in the best place we've ever been in our entire relationship. And I have seen you shift fairly dramatically over the last few months, the last couple months, especially, as you have deepened into the work that you started recognizing you needed to do from the compass.

SPEAKER_05 24:30

You ever wonder why you chose this partner and why they trigger you like no one else?

SPEAKER_01 24:35

It's because on some level, we don't choose partners at random. We choose people who reflect the parts of ourselves that most need healing.

SPEAKER_05 24:42

That's not a mistake, it's an invitation.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

The relational compass helps you understand those patterns so you can respond instead of react. And finally, start moving toward connection again.

SPEAKER_05 24:52

Take the free assessment at lipcouples.com slash compass. Link in the notes below and find your true north in love.

SPEAKER_06 25:00

Yeah. I would love to hear from you on that because it's been really powerful.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Yeah, I think the first thing is once you see it, it's hard to unsee it. Yeah, it's like someone once said if you know somebody told you there was gonna be a yellow VW thing, it was gonna be the secret to your salvation. You've probably never seen one before, but you'll see one tomorrow.

SPEAKER_06 25:21

There's a name for that, there's a law for that that I can't remember the name of.

The Subtle Dominator: How "Authority" Stops Intimacy Identifying the subtle ways we use facts and expertise as a "wall of words" to protect our own dignity.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

But yes, if you know it, drop it in the comments, let us know. We're learning every day. I love information. Uh but you know, I think once I saw that this was something that was work for me, I started seeing it all around me. Started seeing in some of my closest friends. Um, I started seeing it more and more subtle ways in our clients and how it was showing up, uh, the people, the men that I work with. And once I became more aware of it, then it became this thing where like, uh I really see how this is it's very subtle but uh extremely impactful. The that place of authority in particular. I I definitely get to be better at um at moving towards I wouldn't say that I really pull back. I'm not a stonewall, I'm not somebody who says, I don't want to have the conversation, I'm done with this. Um, you know, if I do say that it's like I need a break, I'll be back in the middle of the year. Yeah, it's for like half an hour, whatever whatever it is. Uh you know, I'm I'm not that person. Um but I do have, I'd say the big one for me is holding authority. That's the the one that I get to work on the most. Uh and it it feels like such a the judgment I hold is that it makes sense.

SPEAKER_06 27:01

And and like as you're talking about this, can you give us an example of holding authority?

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Um, sure. Well, you know, I'd say early in our relationship, one of the big conflicts that we had was around nonviolent communication.

SPEAKER_06 27:18

Oh God. When you said one of the big conflicts we had, I was like, which one?

The "Objective Truth" Trap in Relationships A warning for analytical couples: arguing over "facts" is anti-relational. True connection is about the experience of your partner, not objective reality.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

We're all doing the work, right? Nonviolent communication. Now, I have been working with nonviolent communication, teaching it for 25 years. Um, it is ingrained into my patterns of speech and also my awareness of communications that are that people are having. Um, and I remember for a very long time you got so angry at me, and you were like, why are you you're the you're the keeping the rules on how I'm supposed to speak. And I gotta say, that is not a good place to be in in a relationship. My authority was look, I've been doing this for 25 years. I'm not trying to say that you're bad or you're wrong, but these are some things that I'm seeing that don't feel good for me. But coming from that perspective, I was coming from a place of authority. I was consistently coming back and from this place of this is obvious, this is what's happening, this is what I'm seeing, and this does not work for me. Which, from a nonviolent communication standpoint, that was perfectly legitimate. Totally textbook, totally textbook, right? I was doing exactly what would work. Now I'll get into another conversation around why nonviolent communication really doesn't work. I use what I call compassionate communication and seeking to really help the other person feel. And I think that's something that I've learned in this relationship and over time. Uh but that was one way where I was exercising my authority. It could also be, look, I'm the one that that you know takes care of the home or you know, pays for this or that. And so this impacts me more than it impacts you. And so I have a deeper vested interest in this thing going right, so I need you to understand it. These are the really subtle ways that it starts to show up. It can also be just being right about something. No, this is this is objectively true. This is the objective truth of what's taking place. I can tell anyone out there if you're getting into an argument about whether or not there's objective truth in your relationship, you are being anti-relational. I want to say that one more time. If you are having a conversation about whether or not there is objective truth in your conversation with your partner, you are being anti-relational. Relationship's not about the objective truth, it's about the experience of your partner. I think that's the thing that I'm continuing to deepen into because my brain wants to go to, but this is just truth. This is just black and white. There is an objective reality that we're talking about here. But maybe it just is what the color yellow smells like. You'll have to watch the last episode to learn more about the color yellow and what it smells like.

SPEAKER_06 30:28

And what I will say on the other side of that is that I have felt you uh become gentler, a little bit softer. Um there have been times where I have been most triggered by you when I have felt your holding authority as holding such a hard line that also felt like an impenetrable wall that I couldn't get through. Um you you were calmer. Um you are more interested in engaging with me with what I experience as genuine curiosity versus pastimes when you have asked questions with curiosity. I would sometimes experience it as getting curious to push me into an answer that you had already decided was right, um, which I have been guilty of as well. So, you know, again, that that one is a two-way street, but it it has been quite dramatic. And I just really want to underscore that to not only give you enormous credit, but to also really point to how much the compass has been instrumental in impacting our relationship. And we are two people who who came into this relationship, each of us separately, with an enormous amount of relational skills to begin with. So it's really fucking cool to see how much this has shifted our dynamic.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

What has really shown up for me is that the realization that it's like quicksand. My strategy is like quicksand. Once you're in quicksand, the harder you fight, the faster you're going to, you're gonna sink. And what's coming in for me is you're challenging my dignity, you're challenging my authority, you're challenging my awareness, my objective reality. So I'm gonna come back with all of these reasons why I'm absolutely right. But what's happening in that is that I'm challenging your dignity each and every time. And the response is never going to be positive, provided that I'm challenging your dignity, or at least that it's coming across that way. So that's the thing that I've come to learn. You can call it softening, you can call it whatever it is, but really what I'm acknowledging is that my pattern of addressing when I feel that my dignity is challenged, even in very subtle ways, ends up resulting in a challenge of your dignity, and we're off to the races. And this is the dance that we do. This is where we get into these three-hour conversations about who's right and who's wrong and who did the right thing and how this thing should be done and how it shouldn't be done. And ultimately, none of that is getting us closer to what we're actually seeking to get to, which is the the fight is never about what the fight is actually about.

SPEAKER_06 33:27

We haven't had one of those conversations in a really long time, by the way. I know. It's so proud of us. Thank you. Thank you, compass.

The "Boss Babe" & Independent Woman Archetype How women in leadership roles often expand to fill the "North" when they feel they can't trust anyone else to take control.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

The other piece that I want to talk about here is who is often attracted to this person in the north. And again, I want to be clear that it's not just men. You know, we see women in this position oftentimes. Uh, I think a phrase that we often use is the boss babe. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 33:55

Yeah, you know, the strong independent woman.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Can you yeah, can you describe that that quality a little bit better for people out there?

SPEAKER_06 34:01

Yeah, just someone who, you know, uh a woman, and again, these qualities can all apply to men as well, but um, just since we're kind of flipping it a little bit to look at the more so-called feminine qualities, um, the woman who uh was raised to fend for herself, she can hold it down. And if anyone kind of tries to take it from her, it's a risk to her sense of safety because there is an underlying fear in a lot of ways that she can't really trust anyone else to take care of her or to figure it out for her. Um, so she needs to be the one in control. This is where the controlling kind of comes in. She is uh likely financially dependent or working very hard at uh becoming so. Um she is the one who is used to making the decisions, running the show, probably wearing the pants in the relationship. Um, and that has also been me in a previous relationship, but it was uh yes, partially because of actually embodying the strong independent woman archetype, but a little bit because the person I was with was a very extreme West, and therefore no one was in the North, no one had vision, no one had leadership, no one was guiding us or me or the relationship anywhere. So I also really expanded to fill that role because he wasn't going to.

unknown 35:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:29

And that's not an insult on him. That's just, you know, he was very, very extreme, and we'll get into that in in the West uh episode.

Relational Polarity: Why North and South Attract Explaining the "Dance" between the Leader (North) and the Caregiver (South), and how their "adaptive children" interact.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

And this is a really important thing to note about this. And we're talking about these strategies, they're not fixed.

SPEAKER_06 35:43

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

We I often see, I often see that our strategies will change and shift depending upon the partners that we're with and the time or season of life that we're in. The important thing is to not identify as this is who I am, but this is the way that I'm responding currently or have traditionally responded with other partners likely to be doing it again in different ways. And that will shift depending on who I'm with, but that will also shift depending upon um what season of the relationship that I'm in. You know, there are times when I might be moving more towards, particularly early in the relationship, uh, where later in the relationship I tend to pull back a little bit more and want a little bit more of my freedom. So I would say even earlier in a relationship, you might say that I was in the east as opposed to being in the north. Uh but the person who is attracted, the beautiful thing that we found is there's a polarity. We tend to find ourselves on opposing sides in our relational dynamic. So when someone is in a strong north, we tend to pull in a strong south. You want to talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_06 37:00

Yeah, just to kind of wrap it up. Um, and and in our relationship, I started much more in the south, and I've actually now moved a bit more east. And you, I think, were always lots of north as well. But when we first got together, you were also more east. And now we kind of meet in the middle a little bit more. But the beautiful part about this is that there's still a polarity to this that I'll have you describe a little bit more. Even if you are kind of coming together in and out of a similar compass direction, you're still you're still a little bit of both. Like it's still, it still shifts. Um, so the South is, it can be, and it's more adaptive strategies like the nice guy, the nice girl, the the good husband, the good wife, um, the uh kind of mother caregiver type of archetype. Um, it's someone who is, yes, very uh emotionally attuned. There's really beautiful qualities there as well. Um, someone who can really identify everyone's needs without them even saying anything and really step up to fill that gap. But there can also be a sense of safety that is derived from being needed. So if I figure out what all of your needs are and I fill that gap, you should also be able to do that for me, particularly without me actually asking you for it. So then there is resentment that can grow and everything else. Like everyone knows, you know, the nice guy or the cool girl or whatever. They're not really asking for their needs to be met. They are doing what they can to, again, fill the archetype of what they feel is needed and not rock the boat, very, very strong, typically on the preserving peace element. Um, but they're also simultaneously, they have a lot going on underneath the surface that's not being spoken, and it's actually a little bit dishonest as well.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Yeah. And so we have this polarity where there's this person in the north that comes in with strong leadership qualities. And there's this um underlying part of the South that has this desire to be to be chosen.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

Right.

Final Practice: How to Reverse the Spiral Actionable steps to use the Compass to move back toward deep connection, even if things have gone "off the rails".

SPEAKER_01 39:24

We refer to this as the orphan in the South. That there's this part of them, this uh underlying and and sometimes can be the negative rejection of the South. I kind of like the abandoned child. The abandoned child, right? I I'm I'm looking for someone who can not just choose me, but lead, someone who I can trust, someone that's reliable and dependable. That's my my the little part of me, right? And the the part of the the north, the little part of the north is the the tyrant, the little tyrant child that is desperately asking also to be accepted, to be oh to for it to be okay with their tendency and their need to be accepted for uh all that they are also not feeling that they're good enough about. And the South is an incredibly attuned caregiver that is the the all-accepting motherly figure, fatherly figure, that will accept even the ugliest sides of me. And so from the north, I'm looking for somebody who's got arms big enough that can wrap around the world and accept me just as I am. And so we find ourselves in the polarity of these unaccepted parts of ourselves, seeing that this opposing part can accept me. And we shift into these dynamics. And as it starts out as really a positive projection of what this potentially, this person could potentially be, we put them on a pedestal, and then ultimately we start tearing them down with the negative projections. These patterns start to exhibit themselves in relationships, and then they begin to spiral as the adaptive parts of ourselves continue to be in conversation with each other. We get into core negative images of who they are, and then we're off to the races, and it's often hard to reverse that, and that's really the work that we do.

SPEAKER_06 41:23

Yeah, yeah. So if you are interested in taking the compass, if you haven't already by now, uh all the information is in the notes below, or you can go to lipcouples.com slash compass, and that will take you directly to it. It's embedded right in the page, so you don't even have to go to a different page. You know, you get to just jump in and you will get your results delivered to you instantly and give you more information about that. And seriously, you guys, it has been seriously transformative for us.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Yeah, absolutely. Look forward to seeing how we can support you on your journey to having the greatest loving connection that you've ever had in your life. Even if it has gone off the rails, we have seen how we can get back to track towards that loving, deep connection that you're all desiring and are deserving of. Love and practice.