When Business Meets Marriage

Do you work with your partner? Today we're exploring the complex intersection of professional ambition and romantic partnership. We unpack the "Success Identity," discussing how personal achievement (the "reaching of the mountaintop") can create silent tension at home when it is tied too closely to one's sense of self and dignity.

In this episode, we unpack:

* The "Hat" Problem: Why compartmentalizing business and marriage is often an impossible "glitch".

* The 100/100 Dynamic: Moving past 50/50 equality to a model of total shared responsibility.

* Doing vs. Being: Valuing the "unseen" emotional labor as much as the visible financial wins.

* The "Trad-Wife" Modern Evolution: Navigating the desire for being provided for while maintaining individual edge and ambition.

Let's dive in!

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Transcript

The "Selfish" Side of Success: Why achievement is a reflection of self-worth.

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I would love to say that I'm completely altruistic and I'm doing it for you know for the family and for you and all of these kinds of things, but I need to get out of my way and be honest about it. You know, it is really selfish in the sense of my achievement, my providing for my family, my reaching that mountaintop is how I reflect back to myself that I've done something in this world and that I mean something to this world. And and that that that matters. There's nothing wrong with that. But I can't lie and say that I'm doing it for you.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Yeah. Today we're diving into what actually happens when your relationship and your work life collide.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Why the way you show up in your business can quietly create tension at home, how success, identity, and even your sense of self start getting tied into your relationship.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

And what it really takes to navigate roles, power, and connection without losing each other in the process. I'm only got a relationship guy. I spent years exploring how we connect and grow and feel in love.

The "Husband Hat" vs. "Business Hat": Why compartmentalization fails.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

And I'm Kelly Garner, an embodied leadership coach and communications consultant. Love isn't theory, it's practice. This is love and practice. Let's grow this. I had this great idea a couple weeks ago. At least I thought it was a great idea. And I brought it to my men's group. Uh, and I shared that this was gonna be something that was so helpful for our marriage. So proud of this. I thought I thought, okay, here's what's gonna happen. When I'm wearing the husband hat, I will be very clear in our relationship. I'm wearing the husband hat right now. I'm speaking to you as your husband. And then when we're working together on business, I will wear the business hat. And I will say, I'm wearing the business hat now, Emily. And that will be super clear. And we will be able to break those two things apart. And I brought this to my men's group, and turns out I was a moron. Uh, it doesn't seem that my wife compartmentalizes information in the same way that I do. The married men who work with their partners were laughing at me. In this episode, I want to talk a little bit more about what happens when the roles that we play as partners who work together overlap with the roles that we play as husband and wife who live together, manage relationship dynamics, love, intimacy, and all of those things, how they sometimes overlap in ways that aren't always beneficial and sometimes can be beneficial.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

And this is a journey that we are still very much undergoing.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

So here we are, growing together in real time, in real moment, as we promised for you guys. This is our journey.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Yeah, yeah. And it's it is an interesting one, and I get a lot of questions about it, like, how do you two work together? And I'm like, oh, don't worry, there's bumps. There are bumps. Trust me. It is definitely still very much a work in progress for us. Um, because we also we also book both work from home and we work together and we live together. But business is business, and sometimes business needs to get done.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

I I do believe so.

The Co-CEO Dynamic: Navigating business friction while living together.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Yes, yes. And that's where things can get a little bit muddied because we both can have different ideas of what is important, what to prioritize, what to work on while coming at what each of us are sharing with the other and wanting to potentially lead with uh from very different lenses, wildly different lenses. Sometimes that is actually quite beneficial. You get the opportunity to learn and grow from the other. And sometimes that just creates a lot of friction and clashing, which is tricky because then at the end of the business meeting, we still live together. We still have all the other things to navigate and manage and sure do. Uh-huh. Yep. So what tell me what comes up for you the most in this sort of co-CEO conversation and what what the meaning is behind that for you when you are approaching some of these conversations that we have together, whether it's around feedback or um ideas or pitching the other one, what what does that look like for you?

The "Brutal" Mentor Legacy: How professional conditioning affects relational warmth.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

You know, I one of the big challenges for me is as you know, I'm I'm highly rational. Uh and I just look at a problem and I look at the solution. You know, here's a problem. What are the set of solutions that that we can employ to solve this problem? When it comes to work, uh I don't really engage my emotions around the work that I'm doing very often. Uh, so I can come across really cold. I get frustrated oftentimes because I am concerned with how that might land in our relational dynamic and find myself hesitating or slower to bring things that need to get done. And as a result, the my my judgment is that the business suffers because I'm hesitating, I'm not saying the things that need to be said. Where in a working environment, I wouldn't do that. I would not hold my tongue and I would just say, hey, listen, we got to get these things done. Uh and I often work with a lot of men too. Now, historically, I've worked with a lot of women. Uh historically, I was I was trained by women. I worked with a lot of women. I've had a lot of uh female mentors. Uh, and so it hasn't always been that way. But the truth of the matter is the female mentors that that have trained me were also very much that way. Um, one of my greatest mentors, uh, her saying was, they'll love you when it's done. In other words, uh, you know, she could be really brutal to people at times. But knowing that the work that we were doing was so meaningful that when people got to the end of that work and experienced the the benefits of what that was, they would all stop and go, My God, I'm so glad that you pushed me. And inevitably that had been true. Um, I I saw that over and over. So I learned from both women and from men who came from it, that from that perspective.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Yeah. And that makes that makes a lot of sense. And and when I am reminded of that, and and occasionally I I started to point out to you, I'm like, I think you're used to talking to men all day. Because that's that's accurate. Yeah, sure. But I I also know that you were brought up with in particular the the earlier years of your career, you were brought up with um fem uh almost exclusively female mentors. And it's interesting to hear you frame it that way in terms of the kind of brutal nature sometimes that that they could come with. For one thing, I think that in general that can be looked upon more harshly when women show up in the workplace that way. Um, so there's there can be a lot of judgment around that. But then for me, I I'm not, I'm just naturally not that way. So it's it's harder for me to relate to that. And I also, while some of my work is very much about um thickening my skin in a variety of of ways, including professionally, like how we're talking about here, it's I don't want to show up like that, like the way that you're talking about, because that's just not that's not true to me. Um, so how do I also find the balance to meet you in what you are more accustomed to and um can also be wildly effective while also maintaining my own unique way of doing things that is warmer and and is a little bit more emotional. Um, but the emotional piece is tricky because it's like, okay, there's a time and place for like the more personal side. There does have to be some form of compartmentalization on my part as well. To your point, yes, not I'm not gonna do it quite the way that you do. And I don't think that either one of us have the expectations for me to do that. But it is really beautiful to hear you share where you come from because it does allow me to have more compassion about the approach that you take and to just not take it quite as personally because of that.

Sacrificing Success vs. Sacrificing Self: The high cost of lowering standards.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Yeah, and I I think that there's probably, you know, that's just kind of it saves still a surface level of what is um, you know, what that that means to me. Uh I think that there's something deeper about the importance of success and what it means to sacrifice success and who I'm sacrificing that for. And dignity being the thing that is heightened by my success. So when I'm successful, when I do well out in the world, then I feel better about myself. I feel a greater sense of self, and I uh and that bolsters me against anything else. So when I'm sacrificing success, I'm also sacrificing a sense of self. So for me, there's always been a get it done at whatever cost. You have to stay up till three o'clock in the morning, it doesn't feel good, who cares? You're gonna get it done. So if I'm not doing that, if I'm not achieving that level of success, if I'm not getting things done, or I'm allowing things to get in my way, then I have a lesser uh sense of my own dignity, of who I am. That, oh, I I allowed this obstacle to get in my way. Who am I? Look at me.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Interesting. Yeah, so that really strikes at your sense of self when you are not pushing through on the thing, including times where it it involves coming to me to do something about our shared business. And that really starts to chip away at your sense of self.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Yeah. How am I allowing this to happen? How am I allowing there to be failures? In my life, I've I've faced so much adversity and I don't let that stand in my way. And so if I'm allowing that adversity to stand in my way in our dynamic, um if I'm allowing our emotional challenges to stand in the way of success in business, then am I really the person I I claim to be.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

And that's a big, that's a big one to sit with. That's massive. Because that can really shift how uh you know, you and I both know that however you feel about yourself, not just you, but in general, however one feels about themselves is going to have a a massive impact on the relationship, um, the personal relationship as well, which is huge. So that's a big deal. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Uh and I, you know, I just to add one more piece of this, I'd say that there's another layer underneath, which is, you know, that's kind of what drove me early in our relationship. I wasn't in the strongest position um in business in our early relationship. And uh I, you know, I I felt as though I couldn't really show up to be uh your partner in this relationship if I wasn't succeeding. Uh and still to a degree, you know, there's a there's a piece of me that if I drop that, if I if I lose what I've created so far, then I won't be the partner that I want to be. Uh so it really pulls at that uh essential element of of self and uh of who I desire to be in relationship. And I think that piece being tied into the relational dynamic. My success in my work is inevitably very much tied into how I perceive myself as a partner.

Standing Alone on the Mountaintop: Why success requires a witness.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

That is massive. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. That one, that one is that one's heading me. Um you know, there's something else that you have shared with me about success. If you're open to, I mean, it's a little hard for king kids. I'm like, you don't know what I'm about to say, but I'm like, will you will you share with us? Um you tied in with that is that you've also talked a lot about success and what it's for. And I'd love for you to to speak on that as well, because that ties in a lot with what you're saying about you also showing up as the partner that you want to be to.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Having a clear idea of where I want to go, having a clear vision of of what success looks like to me. But at the end of the day, if I'm standing there by myself on top of this mountain, it doesn't really mean anything. It doesn't exist. Um we only exist through the reflection of others. And we only truly exist, my belief, through the reflection of others that we deeply trust and admire. And so our partner, our deepest intimate partner, that person who sees us, who really gets to see all of the parts of us, good, bad, and indifferent, uh, when they get to reflect back that experience, that's what actually makes it real. And so I am, yeah, I would say on the outside, of course, I'm doing it for my family and all of those things, but really from a selfish standpoint, uh, I'm doing it so that uh I'm not alone and that it actually is real. It's not a a figment of my imagination.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Yeah, yeah. And it that I mean, that is basically actually what I was what I was going for. But you've also shared with me specifically certain moments, even as recently as a a week or two ago, we had a conversation and um you were talking about the fact that the the success, you know, like we I I do all this not just for yourself and the family and whatever, but that you do it for me in so many ways. And that if if I can't receive and hold that, then you don't feel like you have succeeded in the same way. Those weren't your exact words, but uh does that does that land for you?

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Yeah, it does. I you know, I I don't remember exactly what I said, but I'm I'm kind of of two two minds when it comes to that. Because I I hear this from my clients a lot. Um, you know, I work with a lot of men or high achievers uh and and struggling with their relationships. And inevitably, each and every one of them says, I'm doing it for my family. And that's not always as true as they want it to be. I'm gonna be really honest, you know. Um, so many of them are doing it because they they love the fight, you know, they get lit up by the fight, and so do I. We get lit up by the challenge. We love having our back up against the wall and having to face a big mountain. Uh, and so sometimes making our lives more challenging, it gets more exciting to us. Uh, and we have to be really honest about that and not just say, look, I'm doing it for you. That's my ego talking, I think. There's a part of that that um that is true, that is, I am doing it so that we can have a life together that feels really fulfilling. And if you don't feel fulfilled in this life, you're not experiencing it the way that I'm experiencing it, goes back to that that reflection piece, then what's the point?

SPEAKER_01 16:18

You're still standing alone on the mountaintop.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

I'm still standing alone on the mountaintop, right? I would love to say that I'm completely altruistic and I'm doing it for you know, for the family and for you and all of these kinds of things, but I need to get out of my way and be honest about it. You know, it is really selfish in the sense of my achievement, my providing for my family, my reaching that mountaintop is how I reflect back to myself that I've done something in this world and that I mean something to this world. And and that that that matters. There's nothing wrong with that, but I can't lie and say that I'm doing it for you.

The Purpose Piece: How "lighting up" in work feeds the relationship.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Yeah, yeah. I appreciate the clarification because I do think that that's important. And you know, similarly, um I my part of figuring out my role and how I show up is also largely about me. And I get my defenses up because I also my identity is very closely tied to showing up a particular way, to being seen a particular way, but also to feeling a particular way myself, like from within. And feeling successful to me means doing work that is meaningful to me in the world. And if I'm not doing enough of that, or if I'm not showing up fully for that work, then I feel like I'm losing a piece of me. And similarly, I have sat with this a lot lately, the areas where I then don't feel like I'm being the partner that I want to be for you, not just the partner that I think you should have or deserve, but I'm not measuring up to the idea that I have of who I am and who I want to be for me and for you and for us.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Let's get to that thing meaning. When you say if I'm not doing something of meaning, what's the what's the for lack of a better term, meaning? How do you use that word when you what does that mean for you when you say if I'm not doing something of meaning?

SPEAKER_01 18:41

My I my work, relational work, is it it it lights me up. And you see, you get to witness the part of me, like when I come upstairs after like an incredible coaching call, I'm just I'm on fire. Like every part of me is feels alive. And that is not my only source of meaning in this world, but is it is a significant part of it. And when I don't do enough of that, typically I'm also then not doing quite as much to fill myself up in all of the other ways, too. So it just naturally tends to decline kind of across the board. And uh it's it is what helps me to bring aliveness back to us, not just to me, but also to our relationship and to you. And when I when I don't show up for that enough for a variety of reasons, up to and including self-sabotage, which is an entirely different podcast episode, then I I start to lose, I start to lose those parts of me. And then I start to become a version of myself that I don't always love. And yes, those parts of me get to have acceptance and stuff too, but that doesn't mean that that's the version of me I want to be, become, or live in all the time.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

So what I hear underneath that is purpose work. Yeah. When you feel that you are engaged and successful in purpose, then you are more lit up.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Yes, very much so.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

What's really interesting to me about that is when we're in partnership and we have uh uh uh two different people, two individuals who uh uh have purpose that sits outside of the relational dynamic. And yet the success or lack of success in that purpose uh has a direct impact on the relational dynamic. As you said, you're lit up or you're not lit up. And I think that's one of the big challenges is how do we allow, how do I allow my partner to have their unique individual experience uh when they may be struggling with what they define as their purpose work? And that struggle then impacts the relational dynamic, or vice versa, you know. How does how do we navigate that in a relational way, recognizing that there's there are uh absolute parts outside of the relational dynamic that are still impacting the relational dynamic? What are your thoughts around that?

SPEAKER_01 21:35

It's a difficult question because to me, there's always going to be parts outside of the relationship that impact the relationship. Yeah. Like you, you can't you can't control that. That's that's just not life. Yeah. Um you can you can support your partner to do more of the work that brings them such a a deep sense of of purpose and encourage and um, you know, whatever you can offer in. that way but you can't not only can you not control the out the external circumstances you can't control them to do the thing right so it's it's it's a difficult it's a difficult one yeah well I I think that the the challenge that I see is if we I if I identify with that and say oh they're going through a tough time I'm going through a tough time as a result then there's a we often say that only one person can be dysregulated in the relationship at one time, right?

Relational Space: Finding the line between being supportive and being intrusive.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

So if I allowed myself to take that on then it it's not supportive on one level to the relational dynamic. But if I don't allow myself to take that on, if I say okay that's that's them having their problem over there, then that can come across as being cold and distant in the relationship which can also cause a separation dynamic in the relationship. They can pull the relationship down. And so it's a it's a fine line to walk through in navigating how to address that. I can be supportive sometimes that supportive can come off as patronizing. So I don't know I'm I'm curious if you have any thoughts around like that delicate dance and how do we show up when the um there's a that piece isn't being fulfilled for one or other person in the relationship.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

I mean the first thing that comes to mind is is to get curious. Ask ask them like ask your partner what it is that that they are most needing and that also requires them to take some responsibility for it as well rather than this isn't necessarily what's happening but rather than sitting around waiting for their partner to come and do something specific like support them but don't patronize them and you know all of those all of those things it it then it becomes to me more of a co-created team effort. Or at least provides the opportunity for it to become more of a co-created team effort where the the partner who is perhaps doing just fine in those areas of success doesn't feel like they're going to always misstep um if they at least are getting curious and having those conversations and seeing what would be useful, what would be effective I think that that's a big step in the right direction.

The 50/50 Evolution: From historical inequality to modern power dynamics.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Interesting. So getting curious as always and uh really trying to find out what your partner needs which isn't always you know They don't always know they don't always know. No that's why I was like it's a start but um they don't always know giving them space to have their experience I think is an important piece. But how much space is the is the tricky challenge. Yeah too much space can create abandonment can create that sense of we're not together um not enough space can feel intrusive so we it can be very difficult to to navigate that that logistical piece. And I think that there's also a a part of this that is um more of a modern challenge. Sure because be you know historically women were not even working right yes that you mean well yes if you go that far back yeah absolutely um I wasn't even thinking that far back I just you know is even you know in the last I mean how much our roles and responsibilities have shifted uh talk about the the 50-50 relational dynamic uh this thing that came along it really it was just in my generation uh that it became a uh more of a norm of a 50-50 dynamic between parents right that there was a a shared expectation in most things in the house uh shared expectation around finances shared expectation around raising children shared expectations around chores and responsibilities around the home and that's a relatively new concept that we take for granted because I was raised in it you were raised in it most of the people out there who are listening to this were probably raised in it and people just 20 years older than me were not yeah my parents were not yeah and so this is a big shift in our cultural dynamics that we're just now coming to grips with so I think it makes perfect sense that we haven't figured this out. But yeah and so in that traditional relationship obviously there was an inequality you know as we say and um separate is not equal. You know this idea that uh you know one person bringing in the financial uh ends ultimately created an uh an inequality and that inequality created a power dynamic that uh our parents generation fought against you know we had mothers both of us uh that were very adamant about earning their own way not having to rely on a man uh and these are the things that that we grew up with and this was this created this need for a 50-50 which then creates also an inherent power dynamic and I'm curious if that plays into um some of the dynamic as well you know asking you as a woman because it is um a uniquely different experience uh being socialized as a woman than being socialized as a man under these these uh set of expectations and you mean under like the the business lens well both the business and the personal lens because I think they overlap yeah there's always been an expectation as a man that I'm going to meet a certain business expectation that I'm going to uh provide provide which protects its own weight of heavy responsibility as well. Of course yeah there's always been that expectation now there's additional expectations that I'm also supposed to take care of the kids and and include all those things, which I'm not fighting against all those I'm just saying that that that's been a shift but the primary shift I think has been in the expectation that women are experiencing in your generation uh and my generation as well from their mothers uh I'd say predominantly somewhat from their fathers as well of what it means to be to achieve and to meet your partner at a certain level yeah and you know I a lot of a lot of women I know um are also the primary breadwinner.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Sometimes accidentally it wasn't even necessarily you know planned that just kind of happened you know her business took off and it just it just happened that way. I I don't have the personal experience of being the primary breadwinner in my last uh long-term relationship we split everything 50-50 and in our relationship right now you are more of the primary bread breadwinner um we're both still working but you are by far uh taking you know carrying the the bulk of of the weight of that uh of that particular role and and yet I don't like it. And this is the part that I still grapple with and it's I want to be clear I do like it. And it's this this it's it's both it's it's it's both and like when you first came to me and and said that you you felt actually really strongly that you actually wanted to take over that role I was a little bit apprehensive but then I I realized that it felt like my nervous system was taking an exhale like that I didn't even know I'd been holding my breath around and I've spoken to a lot of women who also feel similarly who even if they haven't gotten to have the privilege of personally experiencing that they talk about how how amazing that would feel to have that weight taken off and not from for me and and from a lot of the women I talked to from the place of oh great I'm no longer going to work. So this is the this is the difference is because I still very much want to work that did not remove any of my ambitions but it also gave me in our particular situation it has given me a lot of breathing room during uh a very intense period of transition that took a lot out of me.

unknown 31:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Let me ask you this though is there part of that that reads as a lack of belief in you and your abilities in the sense of me coming through and saying and and does that continue to play out in the sense that the lowering of the expectation leads to a a belief that maybe they don't they don't think I can do it.

The Danger of Being Cared For: Fearing the loss of one's "edge" and ambition.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Yeah, for sure. I um to a degree not not a huge amount with you at least not initially but I think that has as time has gone on from that initial presentation of I'm not sure I I think that some of it has translated for me as a little bit of a lack of belief in me but it's more so the reflection that I'm holding up to myself of I thought that I would be creating more financially at this point. And it's more a disappointment in me than it is um a lack of belief from you. If I look at it more surface level it can feel like a lack of belief from you. But when I go underneath it it's much more about me. It's it's it's like one or two percent about any perceived lack of belief from you and all of me.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

What's that story about you then?

SPEAKER_01 32:46

For one thing that I have had come up is uh fear that I would lose my sense of ambition that I would that I would get lazy basically um and judging myself when I have taken time to not push as hard um during certain certain parts of this period of time when I felt like I should have so it's it's an enormous privilege to get to live in this space of being like I I can fully trust that I will have a roof over my head a beautiful one at that and food on the table and and that that removes a lot of pressure but then there's a little part of there's there has been there isn't it is dissipating actually but there have been periods where I have had a lack of self-trust where it's like I'm gonna lose my edge like if if I if I allow myself to be cared for I'm going to lose what has kept me sharp.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

So it is almost like lowering the standard lowering the expectation lowers the standard and I may get complacent in a lower standard and lose my edge. It's really interesting because there's a there's an argument um around um race dynamics and affirmative action and there's been a a I have different thoughts about this argument, but it plays out similarly in the idea that if we lower the standard for people of color to enter into college or whatever it may be, then the message that they receive is they're not as capable. While intentionally trying to make it easier, we're also saying we believe that you need it to be easier because you're not as capable. And so there's a a message that gets conveyed that yeah I want to make it easier for you which also might be conveying that I don't believe that you're as capable and it's okay don't worry we'll lower the standard we'll lower the bar that way you can feel a sense of achievement without having to achieve as much that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

I hadn't thought of it in in that type of comparison and you have such a strong background in DEI it's really interesting to hear you bring that up because that is that is interesting. And the interesting thing is that it also ties in for me with this whole trad wife movement. Oh the trad wife do you know I just read the other day that apparently Anne Hathaway has bought the the rights to uh a book that is about a trad wife influencer who is then she know she pushes that lifestyle she's then transported to the year 1855 to actually live it and the comment section I was dying it was like millennial women Anne Hathaway knows what what millennial women women want to read about what we want to see because there there is this huge push towards that and and in that you know getting to be provided for and and all of those amazing things that are such a gift and I feel deeply privileged to receive and I don't really want the other side of it though.

The 100/100 Relationship: Playing to strengths rather than forced equality.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Yeah I don't think any women do let's be honest even when you're saying I want the trad wife I don't want trad wife in the traditional sense I want it in a in a new evolved sense. Modern a modern evolved sense I think that that's what most people are really saying. No woman wants to go back to 1855 no it's like you know it's like saying to the black man like yeah I want to go back to 1855 but things are simpler hell no absolutely one I I just think that Americans have a really poor sense of history don't really truly remember things that were that old um there are elements of it I think that we are we are acknowledging and this goes back to uh you know that idea of the the zero one hundred relationship that evolved into the 5050 relationship that is evolving into the 100-100 relationship and in order to move past the 5050 dynamic we are going to take on some of those traditional aspects of relationship the 100-100 means that I take responsibility for all parts of this relationship but that doesn't mean that I take responsibility for doing each and every part of this relationship we're gonna find that our roles play to our strengths that our roles play to the things that we do well and the things that light us up and that we don't have to do the things that don't light us up and that don't bring us joy but the freedom to do the things that do bring us joy that do light us up I think is really what the movement is is more about. And so I think when a lot of women are talking about going back to being a triing that I don't really want to be this uber competitive person. I don't want to compete in that world I want to be in my feminine flow I want to be connected to my emotion to what feels real and feels alive and I don't want to be working in that particular energy.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Well here's here's something else when let's bring back to the business for a second so when we're talking about all of these different dynamics that are at play when we are then coming together when you and I are coming together to create a shared business and a lot of the couples that we work with also work together and and have businesses both separately and and together and then if if we if we look at that concept it's like how is that power dynamic then playing out so what is it that is going to create and how do we get clarity on who does which role this is and these are the conversations that you and I are having right now is what do each of us do best? What are our strengths? What are our weaknesses what are the challenges and how do each of us fill particular roles so then the business also gets to thrive as a result of that without leaving gaps. And in in relation to that I saw this thing the other day that I I think is really interesting about how something that we are drawn to in our partners especially initially is like me for example I am drawn to in some ways the more integrated um obviously you know the very masculine parts of you but there is a little part of me that's also drawn to the the integrated version of the feminine in you which is like the being in touch with your emotions and emotional intelligence and care and consideration and and all of those things. And you being drawn to yes all the feminine version of me but in the integrated masculine the part of me who gets shit done you know actually like does and goes out and does the thing. So how do we incorporate that into the unique roles that each of us take on to because it's not just all one or the other. And I don't believe you know and I I know that you don't either that there's just this like we're all one thing or the other. We have both it's more a matter of how integrated those versions are and then how do we incorporate that into okay I'm gonna take this role in the business and you're gonna take this role in the business and then we can you know find ways to communicate and get things done in a way that keeps both of us happy.

The Golden Retriever vs. The Gut Punch: Valuing emotional safety in business.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

Yeah I you're absolutely right the Yan Yin Yang right there's a little bit of this and a little bit of that in each one of them. We're not all one of these pieces and each of us gets to live into that. And I think really what's underneath it and the deeper part of this is in the zero to 100 relationship one aspect of the relationship was not valued and extremely undervalued. And that I think is the core piece that needs to be healed both for the masculine and for the feminine because what we have done in the 50-50 relationship is we have all we've done is overemphasized the importance of the masculine role and if you want to have success and achieve then you need to be in the masculine role because that's the thing that will bring you success in this life. And I say the masculine role I mean you know again we are all like you said masculine and feminine within within within ourselves but the cultural prioritization around uh getting shit done you know uh earning a certain amount doing these things was given a lot more value so to to fix that we said well then you need to do all the things that are given more value as opposed to saying hey these things have value too and as long as we only see a certain set of the responsibilities as having value then there's always going to be an inherent in inequality we had this go on in our in our dynamic you you talk about this idea of um feeling sometimes when we're in with couples your only role and responsibility is to be the the uh the golden retriever the golden retriever right which to me I'm trying to communicate that that has tremendous value that the emotional tone that you set in the room and the safety that you create for our clients creates an enormous uh space for the work that I may be doing at certain times really going deep and and really kind of you know giving them the gut punch but they feel safe with the gut punch because of the space that you hold. And while it might not be as obvious it is incredibly important that I think is the part that that needs to be healed in our relational dynamics in order for us to really be in partnership is to truly value what both partners bring rather than valuing one part more than the other yes absolutely and what I will add to that too is that I think that for me one of the things I've noticed is I am still valuing more of the the masculine type of qualities.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

That's what I mean yeah then like like if I held it and and this is this is what I'm working on if as I became Begin to hold my own unique gifts in higher esteem and to truly better understand the impact that they have, which they do. And I am given feedback about that a lot, independent of you, like in my own business. I'm given that feedback a lot. That is when I get to feel, and I it is it is shifting over time. I am starting to feel more secure within those qualities, but I hadn't realized until you and I started running into all these issues and bumping into these issues how little I was valuing those qualities in, you know, in comparison to, comparison is kind of the issue, in comparison to some of those more culturally idealized um qualities. And I don't think that I realized just how much that was ingrained within me as it became obvious.

unknown 45:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

And so I think that's why I say it's healing that both within the masculine and within the feminine. Sure. Which is how do we collectively hold the less seen aspects of what each other are contributing to the relationship as incredibly valuable and alleviate the competition around the ones that might feel more traditionally um rewarded as the measurement of our success independently so that we can be experiencing success collectively as a team.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

And you know, just to give one last example, like when we're working with couples, you and I I want you to run with this. I encourage you to run with this because uh you are an absolute rock star at conflict resolution. Like when shit is getting heated, I I'm like, whoo, there's there's a lot happening right here, and I'm just gonna let him do his thing because he, you know, you just you get in there, you have two decades worth of experience with conflict resolution. And I am more the expert in the repair, which is a little bit more, you know, it can be not necessarily, but it can be a little bit softer. It's not quite as heated. It's, you know, it's the uh emotional reattunement to each other and the deepening and the depth and the connection. And part of that is as a result of the conflict resolution. And, you know, they they feed into each other. It's a synergistic system. But I think that again, because repair can tend to be not always, can tend to be quieter, a little bit more peaceful, and a little bit more calm. I have not been giving myself as much credit when you and I are in the same room together, yeah, as to the importance of the repair. Yeah. But the conflict resolution does not keep a couple together. You need you need both. Sure. You can't have one without the other, and you can't have the repair without the conflict resolution because otherwise, you know, you're trying to pretend it's sunshine and rainbows, you're painting over all the shit that hasn't actually been resolved yet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

I would simplify that to the doing and the being.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

Yes.

Doing vs. Being: How polarity and complementary strengths create synergy.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

I think that's a good way of putting it. And we live in a culture that exemplifies doing and overlooks the value of being. And I would say that I receive so much guidance from you in being. Um, where I've lost um because I'm focused on the doing. And I know on a deep level that that's not going to get me to where I want to be. Uh, but on externally, that can look tremendously successful. Uh, but it isn't. And I think that that is a large part of the polarity that we attract in a in our partner. Um, we have a partner who is stronger in in doing, and we have partner who may be stronger in being, um, and we get to learn from each other in those aspects to create the partnership that we really want to have.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Yeah. And vice versa. I also feel that, you know, I have both, but that I think that you were stronger than doing. You were like, good, you're done. And I have less to learn about that because sometimes I can just get lost in, you know, like whatever it is I'm doing, whatever flower is attracting my attention at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

And I definitely need to stop and smell the roses. There is, uh, I would not really experience life uh if I didn't. Yeah. And so there's our yin and yang. Complimentary strengths, love and practice.