Is self love overrated

We all know we're supposed to love ourselves. But what does that actually mean and is it possible without tipping into arrogance? This episode, we get honest about that pressure, what it actually looks like in real life, and whether self-love is a radical act or just a rebranded excuse to stop growing.

We also end up in one of our favourite conversations yet about ... white guy confidence. That specific kind of unshakeable self-belief that some people just seem to walk around with, completely unbothered by what anyone thinks. We dig into why that feeling comes so naturally to some and feels completely out of reach for others, and why we think everyone deserves to feel that way about themselves. Not because you have earned it or because you have everything figured out. Just because.

Connect with us:

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• Write us an email: onthetestpod@gmail.com

Feel free to leave a comment and tell your friends about the podcast.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:08

What's up, Amy?

SPEAKER_02 0:12

On the microphone, you've got Amy and Lydia. Woo woo!

SPEAKER_03 0:17

We're back with another Thursday episode at Olive. We're back with this will be on the test. Will this be on the test? Some of it later. I mean this in the test. So make sure to grab a notebook and pen. Because this will be on the test.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Hello. Hello. I just I just told you, but I want the listeners to know I burnt the top of my mouth today. Um eating a burrito that I had microwaved. And I just came off of a cheek biting marathon. Marathon. So I had a I had a spot on my cheek that I had bitten once and then it was a little swollen, and I kept on biting on it. Yeah. And I just got over that, and today I was like, oh, thank god that's gone. And now I burnt the top of my mouth.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

A burrito is like a a top food to burn your mouth with. Did you microwave it?

unknown 1:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Yeah. That's lethal. It is. We are talking about self-love today. Yes. It's gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

It is something that Lydia is super good at, and you know, I'm also here.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

According to my therapist, I am 80% of my problems are because I don't love myself enough, so that's fun. Oh um that's why I don't care about it. Would you rather that's also annoying? Anyway, would you rather uh have to keep every achievement a secret or have to post it on all the social media platforms and tell everybody about it, but like in a really obnoxious and annoying way?

SPEAKER_02 2:01

I suck at social media and I wouldn't want to become addicted to social media. That's my main reason for doing the other one. And like it's nice to celebrate achievements with people.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

But I think the other one comes with an addiction.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

What if we take the social media out of it and you just have to obnoxiously tell everyone? Like you meet them, hi, my name's Amy, and yesterday I ran um five kilometers in this time, and you don't even know. Like, that's insane. Like you would not know.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Like, you know, okay, I'm gonna just talk about something else for a second here. When we brought up when you brought up this topic and I was going through the show docs, I was like, you know what self-love is to me a bit, it's having the confidence of a white man. And sometimes I wish I had the confidence of a white man. And I'm not saying not all, like obviously not all men, blah blah blah. All men. Not all men. It might not just be specifically white men, but I do think white men have like this really a lot of the time, like this confidence that I'm just kind of jealous of. And I feel like deep trust in the world, yeah. Yeah, like as a white guy, if a white guy came up to me, introduced himself, and was like, dude, yesterday I ran a 5k, and it was not a personal best, but for yesterday it was like a personal best because I really pushed myself. And you know, sometimes when you just push yourself like that, like you feel really good about yourself. And I could see a white guy doing that. I would be much more surprised if a woman did that.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Do you know the scene of I know I'm the one who always brings the TV series scenes, but you know New Girl?

SPEAKER_04 3:40

Schmidt's like, a white man? No. No, I mean I know New Girl. I think of it so often. Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Um I see what you mean. Like there is something, I think it comes with a lot of confidence if you pick that one. Like, yes, you have to obnoxiously tell everyone, but I think I don't celebrate my achievements or like tell people because I am a little awkward about it and I feel uncomfortable when people are like, wow, you did that. And I'm like, you know, it's a thing that I'm like, thank you. Um so maybe the other one would get me out of my comfort zone more and make me even more confident.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

That is a one possibility. It might make you very unlikable. Yeah. Also. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

I might not have any franchise or I just don't achieve that many things. Like, what are we talking about every achievement? Like, is going for a run an achievement if I do it daily?

SPEAKER_01 4:39

That's the question.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Or is it like I did a triathlon and then I talk about that for a few weeks? But then eventually, like but both is annoying. Both is annoying, but if I have to obnoxiously tell everyone every time I went for a walk or a run or yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

See, now telling people about the achievements could make you want to one-up yourself so you don't become the annoying person who tells them about back in 1990 something, I did a half Iron Man, and that's why I'm the shit now.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

So it could make you want to stay fit. I'm definitely more comfortable in the not saying, like keeping it a secret. Oh, me too. That's what I'm trying to do now.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Yeah. That's why I'm trying not to pick that one.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Yeah, like posting this podcast, we had like a thousand downloads a week ago, and I procrastinated so much to post it because I was like, ah people are gonna know.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

It's so stupid. Yeah, and then it is like it's a weird thing of somehow when you tell people, like, I don't know, if someone tells me something impressive, I'm never like, oh, they're boasting, or they're sometimes I am. Yeah, depends on how they tell it, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Depends on the person, but yeah. But usually I'm like, oh, that's impressive.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

No, I've also had women who are I'm like, calm down, it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Um but it would probably be a good exercise for both of us on topic to be a bit obnoxious for a minute.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

That's what I was thinking. I don't think I would be comfortable in it, but I think it would actually be a very good exercise for like a month to actually just like just boast about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Exercise, guys.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

For a month, and then afterwards I will keep it a secret again.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

What happened to the run, Amy? What happened to the thing? I never did that. I don't know what you're talking about.

unknown 6:43

No one knows.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Um, okay. Would you rather love yourself but be incapable of loving other people? Or only be able to love other people but not yourself?

SPEAKER_02 6:54

I feel like this one is easy for me. And a therapist could probably tell me why. Oh yeah, only other people.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Yeah, that makes sense. What about you?

SPEAKER_02 7:03

For you.

SPEAKER_04 7:04

I knew it, I knew it. I was waiting for it.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

No, it makes sense because you're like a very a very loving person. So that makes sense that you would choose that. Thank you. I don't really care about other people. Bullshit. No, I don't. No, this is a very hard one, actually. It's very hard. That's what she's saying. Um I I think if I so love like I have phases where I deeply do not love myself, and I am annoying in those phases. So this is the like the main issue I have with this. Like, if I don't love myself and only love other people, I'm not gonna be very fun to be with. But loving people is such a nice thing in life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

I mean loving yourself is also a very nice thing. But the ability to love someone else, I think, is a very nice thing. Yeah. And otherwise, I think I'd go with that. Like relationships and stuff are so different.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Yeah, but me not loving myself, my relationship would be so different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

It's not fun. I'm very interested in your definition, but let's finish the would you rather um would you rather not be able to take a compliment or not be able to take a joke? This is a tough one.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Um to what extent am I not able to take a joke?

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Um like you just You just don't think it's funny.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Okay, but I don't have to be a bitch about it.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

No, I think also the not being able to take a compliment, you don't have to be like a bitch about it, but you just get re my life, you get real awkward.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Okay. I think I'd rather not be able to take a joke. Okay. Because that's more of my personality. Like, I'm the I'm the youngest, and you can tell sometimes. Like, I can't really take some jokes, and I'm evil easily provoked. Um in some aspects. No, never. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, somebody will comment, like, I don't know. I can't even give an example, but you probably could.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Um I can't give no, I I mean I don't think that's very true of you, honestly. I think you are good at laughing at yourself.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Yeah, but yeah, I just I think it would be the impact that taking a compliment has is bigger than taking a joke, I think. Because often jokes are like deprivate depre deprecating. Self-deprecating or like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

I don't know if you can. At your expense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

There we go. Like if I joke around with my friends, then it's at their expense. And yes, that's fun, but it's not something that'll necessarily boost your confidence. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

I do think it's a skill to make jokes that aren't at anyone else's expense.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

For sure. Which is very hard. And sometimes you're in like a community where it's kind of, you know, the putting each other down with jokes.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Well, I feel like I'm the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

At the pickleball tournament two weeks ago, a week ago, after playing a game, one of the best Swiss players came up and was like, Oh, Amy, I heard you're totally professional. And then another guy was like, Yeah, did you see her serve the ball? And I just went, got red and just like could not function as a human anymore. And I don't know why. And like I was like, I'm not a what? Huh? And like they were joking, they were being, but they were also giving like a a funny Yeah, being very kind. Very kind people, and I just um, yeah, I don't I I don't do very well with compliments. I appreciate them, and sometimes I can deal with them, and sometimes I they very much rattle me, and yeah. I like giving compliments. I think it would be a good exercise for us to flip. I think so too, but yeah, I think not being able to take a joke would have a bigger impact on my life because I'm a very jokey person.

SPEAKER_05 11:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

I have to roll with the punches because I definitely hand them out, you know. It would be really weird for my personality with the amount of jokes I make to not be able to take a joke. I think that would make me a very unlikable person.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

That in combination with being super arrogant. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 11:42

Because you're always boasting about myself. I would have Armin. Bro, you don't even know.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

It'd be that that that guy. Yeah, he'd turn into a man.

SPEAKER_04 11:55

I think I would.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

I think honestly, that might just like which sometimes I want. Sometimes I watch white men and I'm like You want to be a man? I want their their confidence. Sometimes Tarek tells me about his life, and I'm like, how do you how do you just like believe that that's true in your life? Like it's good, it's great. Oh my god. Yeah. Or I watch a walk guy walking around, and I'm like, how do you just exude this confidence? A walk guy, a white guy walking around. I'm just like, how do you exude this confidence? Anyway, sorry, I'm going off on a rant. It's something I've been thinking about recently, clearly.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

I mean, it's very valid. We could do one on white guys, white guy confidence.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

How to get that white guy confidence, bro.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Instead of big dick energy, it's white guy confidence.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Oh my god. I would love I I need this podcast in my life. Let's do it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

We have some exciting news. You can become an official A student for as little as $3 a month. You can support the podcast and you get early access to our shows, which means you can listen in on Tuesday instead of Thursday.

unknown 13:06

Woohoo!

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Also, we will give you a special shout-out in the accent of your choice. And if you don't choose an accent, we'll choose one for you.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Do you think you genuinely love yourself? And how does it show if you do? No.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Uh yeah, that's a negative. Um I think I'm getting there. I think it's better than it has been. I think okay, so there's this like thing in psychology that I'm a little obsessed with, and it's kind of the theory that motivation is a finite thing. And you can't rely on motivation to get things done. You have to rely on routine and um willpower, basically. Yeah. And that if you start to train your willpower, then you will start to trust yourself more and build a confidence like that. So if I tell myself I'm gonna get up then, then you actually wake up at that time, and then you start to learn, oh, I can actually trust myself when I make a promise with myself. Yeah. So that's how I've been trying to like build up my confidence and like my self-respect with like setting myself challenges and then doing them. But I still put a lot of pressure on myself, especially when it comes to like work or hosting a dinner party, apparently. Um you know, the important things in life, the important things in life. Um, so yeah, I can put a lot of pressure on myself for random things, or like Domini and I went camping a few weeks ago, and that was when I first started making sourdough bread, and I had set it in my mind that I was gonna make a sourdough bread for that camping trip, but I started way too late, and the sourdough bread didn't rise, and I was so disappointed. And because I had planned this camping trip for me for him because he had planned a really cute one a year before, and I wanted everything to be perfect, and then I like started to cry on the way there because we were going for a snow trip and there was no snow, and I was like, oh my god, I can't even plan a trip. So yeah, I do yeah, there's a anyway. What are you?

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Um well first I want to uh like come back to the motivation part. I think that's a really good point, and I think like kind of learning to trust yourself to do things is pretty cool, and I I think that's why I like doing sports events because I realize what I'm capable of and also where my limits are, and when I can say yes, and when I'm like, okay, no, I need to I need to be realistic, or like this isn't uh realistic for me in this stage of life, or like I don't have time to train for that or whatever. Um uh I don't honestly know how to answer the question. Okay. Um I I I I don't know. Um I think I mean no, I don't think I do, but then sometimes yes. Yeah, yeah, I see that.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

I see that. Some days you're like bitching.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Some days you're ovulating, it's just like I'm on top of the world!

SPEAKER_04 16:28

Nobody can fuck with me. And then you have PMS and you're like, everybody's fucking with me. Um yeah, I wish that were less true than it is.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

So you were talking about the camping trip when Tarek and I went to Hawaii. I wanted to take him to the Hale Ocala sunrise, and we got up late, and I was driving up the hill, and then we got into the national park where you can only drive 30 miles per hour, and the sun was like, it wasn't starting to rise, but it was starting to get lighter, and I started having like a panic attack that I didn't want to drive faster because I didn't want to hit any natural like I it said 30, and there were cars over passing me going like 60, and I was like, I'm sorry, I want I want you to see what's up there. I want to get to the top of the mountain, I want to have this beautiful experience with you, but I also don't want to drive too fast and hit a bird or something because we're in a national park, and that just feels like a dick move to drive too fast through a national park because like I wasn't able to get up earlier.

SPEAKER_04 17:27

I'm gonna put some wildlife at risk. Like, that's not who I am as a person, and I had that's quite a conflict, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

I see that. Yeah, so you know, I definitely also have those moments. Um, welcome to the club. I think it's quite a big club.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

I think it's uh women.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

I don't know if it's just women, maybe. No, probably not. It's definitely not white dudes with their confidence. Definitely not white. No, sorry.

SPEAKER_04 17:58

No, let them go. We have white guys listening. Please stay. Please stay. Come on our podcast. Tell us about your problems. Um came across so snarky that I did not mean. Tell us about your problems. If you have any. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Um, I think the next question will help us. Like, I think for me, it's still a little unclear what self-love is, because I don't feel loved myself like I feel for other people.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Okay, so is there a difference between self-love and self-acceptance?

SPEAKER_02 18:42

So I would say, do I have self-acceptance? Yes. And like, do I accept myself for who I am? 90% of the time. 10% of the time I'm, you know, a person and uh but I would say 90% of the time I'm just I'm you know, this is who I am, and that's there are things that I want to change. There are things that I appreciate about myself, there are things that I maybe don't really love about myself and I'm trying to figure out, but at the same time, like this is who I am. So I agree. I feel like self-acceptance for me is very easy. Self-love. I don't know if I need to be able to love myself like I love other people though. I think that's confusing to me.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

I yeah, I understand what you mean. I don't know if it can be the same kind of because what I always worry about, like I think it's dangerous if it's like I'm perfect no matter what. Cause you're not. Like I guess I am.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

I mean you are, but I'm not. Yes, you are. No, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

No, but then like you know, self-love I think can go too far. I think that you don't try to better yourself, or that you ignore I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

This I don't okay. I would love people to comment if I'm like if you've experienced this. I don't know what it feels like to not think that I have flaws. To love myself so much that I'm just like I am perfect in every way and do not need to improve myself. Yeah, same. And I don't know if there are people out there who's white guys, white guys, comment. White guys let us know.

SPEAKER_04 20:34

What's it like? What are your problems? No, but actually, like if if somebody has this, I'd love them to comment and be like, yeah, I've experienced this because maybe it's just Lydia and I. Everybody else is like, y'all are weird. Imagine if we get like a lot of comments on this video, I'm gonna do it. Oh my god, did you listen to the podcast? They're so sad.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

I don't even know what self-love is like, they think it's only white guys.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Maybe um sorry. Yeah, I I think I have self-acceptance when I like up until the point I don't have self-acceptance when my mental health is shit. Let's say that. Like it when I'm fully in it, and but other than that, I would agree, I think I'm pretty similar to what you described.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

I think the mental health, it depends on what stage. Like stage one, yeah, I still have self acceptance, stage two is like, eh. And stage three is like, why am I like this? Why can't I be different? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Um, but I think for me, self acceptance seems more attainable than self love.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

Yeah. Oh yeah, I agree. What would self-love look like to you? Okay, let's say Amy in the day of loving herself.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

I was gonna Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

A day of self-love.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

I was trying to think of this of like when do I think self-love is super important? And it's when I'm trying to do something and not be hard on myself. Rather than like. But there I think self-acceptance is also really important. Like if I go for a run, yeah, it's much nicer for me to be like, oh, I'm get I'm out there, I'm doing it, or like when I'm playing pickleball, if I am enjoying myself, then I talk very positively. I'm like, oh yeah, like I get to defend the ball, or I gotta be on defense now, and I love doing defense because like I get to, you know, play differently than offense and it's so much fun, blah blah blah. Whereas if I'm having a bad day, then it's like you fucking missed the ball again. You hit it into the neck, you idiot, and like that's definitely not self-love. So I can say what it's not. Um so what it is, I think is like it is nice to have those moments of self-love, but I think just yeah, having pure self-love, kind of like loving other people, is unrealistic. But then I guess love, I don't know. I'm I'm really struggling with this right now.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

I think I think self-love, I think there's an important difference that needs to be made between self-love and self-indulgence. And sometimes they're kind of put into the same pot.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Yeah, okay, cool. That's a good keep going. Sorry. Um I'm on, I'm very proud of this thought. I'm proud of you for having that thought.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Because I wasn't thinking, because I was thinking, what is a day of self-love for me? And so lately I've been trying to get up in the morning and work out in the mornings before work because I realized that I can chill way better if I know I've done something for me in the morning, and then no matter what the day brings, if a meeting runs late or anything, I know I did that bit for myself.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

And so I think self-love is kind of like trying to do those things for yourself, but also thought long term. So, like, I think also eating healthy, but eating delicious food that's healthy is a form of self-love for me.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

Okay. See, this I like, because then I would say I do have self-love. Yeah. Because I do like I do love my body enough to work out, to eat healthy, to not do too much when I realize I'm tired or stressed or something. Sometimes to eat those gummy bears when I want to eat those gummy bears. Like, is that self-love?

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yes. I think so. And I think that's one part that I think we're pretty good at. What I no, I don't know what your thing is, but I've realized in therapy lately, what I'm not good at is like self-love when it comes to or self-acceptance. It's both when it comes to work. Yeah. And to be like, this is good enough. Yeah. So I I think it's a mix between doing your best and knowing your boundaries and kind of it's and it's hard to summarize, but you know, like working in your favor. Yeah. I think is it.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

I think actually now if I think about it, like loving someone else does not mean you think they're amazing, does not mean you think they have no flaws. It means you love them because of some things and in spite of other things. And so loving yourself should feel the same way. So then I would say, yes, I have self-love, but it's like a practice. And like in a relationship, I have to continuously decide I'm going to continue to love myself.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Yeah. I think sometimes it's like um I love myself so I can watch TV all day.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

I was gonna say, when does it like what would you uh when does it go into a negative side of like when it's yeah the indulgence or kind of an arrogance?

SPEAKER_01 26:23

I think it can be both right. It could be the indulgence or it can be like the optimization where you do like workouts like sorry, no no, keep going. Where like you get up at 4 a.m. you work out for two hours, and then you work from nine to five, and then you journal and you work on your side business because you love yourself and you wanna get your like you know. I've seen that too, but then I think there's a flip side, like I love myself, I'm gonna treat myself to a bath, TV, and a tub of ice cream. And not that both of those things are bad, but just there needs to be some balance between the two, I think. Yeah, I don't know if this may might might be not on topic.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

I think it is. I'm thinking like I think it's making a lot more sense for me. I'm not sure about the listeners, but like you have to love yourself enough to set boundaries. Yes, but also like sometimes I think self-love can go too far where it's like, well, I get to do the or like I love myself. I don't know. The only thing I can think of is like the body positivity movement.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

That's what I was thinking of too.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

I'm all for body positivity. I don't think you should dislike your body in any shape or form, but I think it became like I love myself, so I get to eat over 5,000 calories. And like sure, it's good that you love yourself at any size. That I don't disagree with, but you should also, like, I think there is this kind of using it as an excuse for bad behavior because you're gonna love yourself no matter what, which you should, but at the same time, if you love yourself no matter what, like I love you, if you weren't healthy, I would want you to be healthy. That doesn't change whether I love you or not.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

If you love yourself, you should want to live a long and healthy life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

And like you want to deal with the difficult things because you love yourself.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes I question if the like loving yourself no matter what is actually self-love. Or self-self. Or if it's something else. Self-something. I don't know if the indulgence, you know, I think because of this this argument that wouldn't you want to live for as long as possible if you love yourself that much.

SPEAKER_05 28:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

But but not to hate, like I agree with you. I think the body positivity, how it started, is really amazing. And now we're going back into skinny talk and like everybody's the stick figure, which is awful, but there just has to be a balance.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Yeah. Yeah. I think love yourself so much that you want to be healthy.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Yes. Yeah, I agree. Have you ever met somebody whose um self-love felt like a red flag? I'm not sure if it was self-love or not. This is okay, so this is my theory. If it's a red flag, it's not. Okay. I think if it's like arrogance to the point where it's a red flag, then that is a lack of self-confidence or a lack of self-love that then shows in arrogance.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

But then, like, what do you call them? Like narcissists? Narcissists. Are they lacking self-confidence or do they have an abundance of self-confidence and self-love?

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Okay, I think they they lack self-confidence. They're very so I talked about narcissists for a while with my therapist, and they're supposedly very insecure men who are so delusional about the insecurity that they can't admit that they're insecure. Okay. You said men, is it always men? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Wait, no, actually. No.

SPEAKER_04 30:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

It's hot. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 30:32

It's hot. I feel like I've definitely met women. You did say men. I was like, I've definitely met women like this.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Yeah, I'm so sorry. That was that was 100% a slip-up. I did not mean to say men.

SPEAKER_04 30:56

It can be both. Oh my god. Any white guy or if any guys listening to the podcast are like these two girls. They're like, fuck them. Get a man on your podcast. You idiot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Um, yeah, I don't think it's I don't think it's ever self-love. If it's because like self-love comes with self-acceptance, and I think if you accept yourself, then you can also it's you can accept others. And the thing is when like arrogance is a red flag, it's kind of like because they're putting you down. You know what I'm trying to say? No. Okay, so let's say. I am a runner. If I am confident in my running, then if somebody else says they run way faster than I do, I won't reply with talking about something else that I'm really good at and trying to put them down or like diminish their effort. But since I'm confident in what I do, I can be like, oh my god, that is so impressive. Yeah. And I feel like people who whose arrogance, I'm gonna say arrogance because I don't think it's self-love, whose arrogance is a red flag will put other will put your stuff down. Okay. Or not give space for that. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

I don't know if I fully agree with you. I understand what you're saying. Like because it's English and I speak that language. Good, good, good. Yeah. Um, but I think I think you can be arrogant while still accepting other people. I do see that a lot of the times it does come with like you are like that arrogance can be too much, that you're always kind of overshadowing other people, but I think you can also just be arrogant without being a douche. Can you? I think so.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

I think you can be self-confident without without being a douche. I don't know if you can be arrogant without being a douche. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

I don't have any examples, but it feels true to me that that would be possible.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

I would never say to somebody that I like you're arrogant. No, that's not a compliment. But you're self-confident. So it implies that you're a dick.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

I even I even think if you say to someone you're self-confident, like that that to me sounds like arrogance. Okay, you're confident. Yeah. Okay. That's fair. Um I feel like I'm very confused about the question. Yeah, I know. I'm I'm I really I did not mean to. I I'm so sorry to all the men out there. I really apologize. But we're gonna skip it, but I want to read it just this has literally been something on my mind, and I think that's why it's coming out. And it's just unfortunate that we're talking about self-love and it came out in this way, but like it's really been on my mind the confidence that men have and why it's like this, and why most women don't have the same level of confidence that most men do.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

No, because I know we've been shitting on it, but I think in a lot of men, it's such a cool um characteristic. Yeah, it's a very attractive characteristic. Yeah. You go to a shelf and you're like, I can build that. Give me the manual, I'll figure it out. Okay, I can do that too. I can too, but I need an example. Or like a okay, so no, where the confidence of a man is amazing, Dumaney and I will go on bike rides. Um, and he will pick out bike rides that I am very sure that I am not capable of. And he's sure that I am.

unknown 35:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

So we do him. And he's like, I told you you could do it. And I wish I had that confidence to be like, I can do this. I've never done it before.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

But I can do it. I think that's a good thing. Like, okay, it might not be for everyone. For me, sports. In Mexico, I realized because I am sporty, like I would go to a sports class and be one of the better people just because I had like a Swiss level of Swiss level of my microphone miss.

SPEAKER_04 35:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

Lydia just got slapped in the face by her microphone. It's very hard to finish my sentence. But I feel like there I started to get some of that confidence that guys have. And it's a very nice confidence to just assume that you're going to be good at something.

unknown 35:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

Or that you can do something. And that like I I I'm really saying.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

I do wonder if it's nurture nature with this thing and how much is which. Yeah. I really don't question. Um, so the next question that we wrote down, which we're gonna skip, is is there a difference between how men and women are allowed to practice? Which we've established. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

If we've got to be a little bit more than a lot of very much established the woman's side. I like if there are if there are guys listening, please leave a comment. Because I am very interested what we got wrong. Because I'm sure we can.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

I do think that no, I think the one issue for guys is that there's also not a lot of space for them to admit a lack of self-love. Like, I think a man is still expected, or they believe they're expected to be the strong figure. Like, you see that the young people are going more right wing now, which was like the guy's this macho man and they don't show their feelings. Blah blah blah. So I wonder how much is also like a false confidence or them feeling like they need to show this image of being confident.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

Yeah, I think like that's that's a really good point. I think a lot of confidence that is shown from men might not it might not feel that way. None of the men are gonna hear this because by now they've turned off. Yeah, so they've since they listened to the first five minutes and they're like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Fulk this. But we we love and appreciate you. We do.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

We want to bundle up your confidence and steel.

SPEAKER_04 37:37

Sorry. I'm in such a weird mood right now.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Same. It's it's good though.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Um, it was really hard for me to think of a funny story. Same. So I don't know if this is a funny story or just a story. Okay. Um, but I was thinking of like a moment when I felt very confident and like good about myself was when I was starting my new job and I made sure I put on an outfit that I felt good on in. And like I was excited to get to work. I was making here or in Mexico? Here. Yeah, just making myself a coffee. Um, Tarek had just gotten a new camera and he waited until I turned around and took a picture of me. Because when we went to Mexico, he took a picture of me on my first day of work, and I was all like smiley and nervous, and it was a cute picture. Then he showed me this picture, and I look like an absolute bitch. Like I I was in a genuinely good mood.

SPEAKER_04 38:43

And he was like, This is just how you look. And I was like, that's how I look. And I'm trying to come to terms. Like, I've been told I have resting bitch face before, but I've never seen it.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Like, oh my god, I've seen it, but I I really like I was in a good mood. I was making my coffee in my head. I was singing a little tune. It looks like I am about to scold a child.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

I have the same problem. Domini and I were on vacation, and he was like, Are you okay? Are you okay? Are you okay? To the point where I was like, it's just my fucking face. Like, I can't change it.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

I started that piece. I started questioning it so much. I was like, is this why people tell women to smile? Because like, I do look much better when I smile. I don't mean to look this way. Also, nobody should tell me that, but now I kind of get it. Maybe. Maybe they have a point. Maybe they do have a point. And I hate to say that out loud because I've definitely been told to smile where I'm like, go fuck yourself.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

Um, yeah, no, never tell anybody.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Never tell a woman to smile.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

No, but also I get it, kind of. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, um, that's the self-love I'm working on right now.

SPEAKER_04 40:02

To love myself despite my bitch face.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Love thyself despite thy bitch bitch face. We should start making merchandise. We should. Once we get 10,000 downloads. Okay. Or should we up it to 100,000?

SPEAKER_02 40:21

Hmm. I don't know. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Or let's say 10,000 subscribers. Wow. Okay. That would be nice. That would be nice. Um, okay. I don't have a funny story, but I've noticed a pattern. So I'm back in therapy. Who could have guessed that that was gonna happen?

SPEAKER_04 40:44

Um you you just had crazy eyes for a second there.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Surprise! Yeah. Um, so I'm back in therapy. Hi, my name's Lydia. I go to therapy. Hi, Lydia. And um, and basically, whenever I mention something that I struggle with, my therapist will be like, yeah, but that's self-love. She's great, she's really good, but and she's also correct. So yeah, I don't feel like I love myself very much because apparently I have a few issues with um with self-love. That's okay. It's not a very funny story, but I couldn't honestly couldn't think of a funny story because it's self-love or lack thereof. Often isn't a very funny thing.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

No, I mean I don't know. It is a hard thing to think of a funny story of like self-love. Um well, we talked a lot about white men today.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

Yeah, we did. We love you. Yeah, we do. You are appreciated. Our brother is a white man. Our boyfriends are white men. Yeah, and we came from a white man. Well, we are white men.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Well, I'm gonna stay silent while Lydia takes this all.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Anyway, thanks for the support, I mean. I mean, it would be our first hate comment to get.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

So yeah, leave us a hate comment you know that you're making it. Yeah, engagement is engagement, yeah. Right? Something like that. That's what people say. Yeah. Except when you get engaged.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

Publicity is no such thing as bad publicity.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Maybe this is our viral moment when we talk about white guys' confidence. Probably.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

We're the first to do that.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

Probably. The only ones. Okay, let's wrap it up. Okay. Thank you for listening to it.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

Um, crazy that people come back and listen so often.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

Yeah. Very appreciated. Very appreciated. Love you guys. I still love going and checking the stats and seeing where people are. That's really fun.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Yeah, same.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

Um, well, thank you. And see you next time.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

Even if you're a white man, don't be nice.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

Especially if you're a white man.

SPEAKER_04 43:23

Bye.