Standing up for yourself

- Standing up for yourself sounds simple until you are actually in the moment and your voice is doing something weird and you are pretty sure you are about to cry. This episode we talk about what to do when it goes wrong, why sometimes the second conversation matters more than the first.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:08

What's up, Amy?

SPEAKER_00 0:12

On the microphone, you've got Amy and Lydia. Woo woo! We're back with another Thursday episode as always. We're back with this will be on the test. Will this be on the test? Some of it might. I mean, like this in case maybe.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

So make sure to grab a notebook and because this will be on the test.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Would you rather have to stand up for yourself entirely in rhyme? Or only be allowed to whisper?

SPEAKER_02 0:50

I really like this question. Me too. Um both are just ridiculous.

unknown 0:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

But the whisper, okay. No, do you remember the episode of The Office? Where I know you guys never watch these shows. It doesn't relate, but I'm still gonna bring these references.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Um, and Michael Scott is firing somebody and or trying to learn how to fire somebody, and he read online that you lean back and you whisper.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

That's it's not when he was trying to fire someone, it's actually when he's trying to ask for a raise. When Daryl's asking for a raise, and he's like, Oh, yeah. In order to get the power in the conversation, you have to lean back and whisper. It's on Wikipedia, so you know all of the smartest people are writing on there.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Everybody can write there, so you know you give the best information possible.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

That was a good episode. I think the whispering can be an assertive move. Like sometimes when my students are being little shits, I'll wait for them to point it down and then I'll be like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

You guys are assholes. But I think the whispering works from a place of power. Like if a little if if one of your students came up to you and was like, Mm-hmm.

unknown 2:17

Why did I get up at five and not at six?

SPEAKER_01 2:21

I studied so hard. This is great audio. This is great for somebody's listening to this being like, Are my earpods broken? What is going on?

SPEAKER_00 2:30

They turn it up and we start laughing and they're like, oh my god, shut up.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Um but I think the whispering is more sort of than the rhyming.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

I think the rhyme would be a good time.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Let's see. Let's let's let's let's play for this. You go to your boss and you're asking for a raise.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Um I would like a raise. I don't need your praise. I just want my raise. I've been waiting for days. And it should be on its ways.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

I was really impressed. It was quite quick for a while.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

It's really hard because then you have to like keep like, can I change up the rhyme every once in a while?

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Yeah. Brace, I've been waiting for days. I was thinking if you could do give me more money to spend when it's sunny. And then what if you have like a crew? You know. Turn into a rap.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

It would be hard not to start rapping, I think.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Not that I can rap. Pretend to rap, let's say it like that.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

I don't think if you look at us two, it's not like, oh, I bet those girls can rap. Oh, they can rap. Probably not.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

I mean, did you just hear the way I rhymed days with ways?

SPEAKER_01 4:02

And and days again. And then days again. I got another one. Craze. Wow. Haze. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Maze. Okay. We're so good at this. That would okay. If we if we're honest, that's how it would end up. I have to take the whisper one because otherwise I'd be like, give me a raise. I've been waiting for days. My head's in a haze. I feel like I'm in a maze. Uh and then I would like, I would get so off topic because I'm trying so hard to rhyme that I forget what I actually initially wanted to talk about.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

And then the problem is also if your boss says no, and you have to argue why you deserve the race. Like you can prep the rhyme to a certain point, but then if he goes off track.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

And you have to freestyle in front of your boss. I'm gonna cook a cook-a-cry. I do think though. As a teacher, if a student came up to me and could like argue their point in rhyme, I would be so amazed. I might just give them a better grade. That's what I thought. My head went to imagine you have an employee in front of you who's crying and dragging asking for the race. Would you just throw it at them to shut them up? Stop. Take the 10% and leave me alone. Might be a strategy on our next episode. I would ask for a raise. If anybody tries this out, let us know. No, I'd have to go with the whisper. The other thing would also stress me out. I think the rhyme would be really funny. I kind of want to try it once. It would be funny. Go for it.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Would you rather stand up for yourself but come across as really mean? Or not stand up for yourself, but you come across as a saint. Um I think is that you would stand up for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Yeah, I don't mind being a bitch sometimes. But you would too, no?

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

I mean, no one's calling Lydia a saint. That's real.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

I'll never live my life that way.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

I mean almost every woman who's ever stood up for themselves probably knows what it's like to come across a little mean because they're like, why are you being mean? Yeah. You're like, I'm just being like a person.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

So attractive. Yeah. Yeah, no. Coming across as a saint is fine, but it's not what I aspire to in life.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

No. I mean, it I don't want to be mean either. But I think sometimes it does come across a little mean, and I'm like, look, this is just my opinion, and I'm not backing down from my opinion. And if you think it's mean, I'm really sorry. I'm not trying to hurt you, but I'm not going to drop my opinion for your feelings.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

I just thought of a moment where I was happy that I was mean. I came across as mean. This was yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Who?

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Um Domini and I were doing a home renovation project at mom's house, and it got stressful, and so I was pissed. And then we had to get like I had to throw something away. So I got out of the car, and before I got out of the car, I was driving, and so I drove to the side, and the car could clearly get by. It was like in the small town, I wasn't bothering anybody. I got out of the car, and these two young guys were like, Hey, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 7:54

kind of thing, and I was pissed already, and I looked at them, just pissed, and they immediately went. Sorry, it was a joke. It was a joke. And that was the first time where I was like, you know what? I'm kind of happy that I have a resting pinch face right now because you guys are being assholes.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

Yeah. So sometimes it's nice to be mean. I mean, not to be mean, but it's nice to stand up for yourself. Yeah. And it's necessary. It is necessary. We have some exciting news. You can become an official A student for as little as $3 a month. You can support the podcast and you get early access to our shows, which means you can listen in on Tuesday instead of Thursday.

unknown 8:44

Woo! Woohoo!

SPEAKER_02 8:45

Also, we will give you a special shout-out in the accent of your choice. And if you don't choose an accent, we'll choose one for you. When was the last time you had to stand up for yourself? And did you whisper or rhyme?

SPEAKER_00 9:03

I rhyme all the time. Because I think it's divine.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

Because rhyming's sublime.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Hmm. Um I cannot think of it like a time I stood up. Like, I I I don't know. I feel like I'm always standing up for myself, so nothing like not always. Okay. Not always. But I have a hard time keeping my opinion to myself sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Okay. Do you feel okay you feel like saying your opinion is is s standing up for yourself?

SPEAKER_00 9:35

I don't know. I'm trying to think of like when I had to stand up for myself the last time.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

I can't really In Mexico there was a situation, though? With your boss. And wasn't there a mean parent situation?

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Yeah, I guess that might have been the last time. I think in in teaching it comes up way more often, so that maybe that's why I can't think of anything right now. We're like Goals. Hmm. Goals. Yes, I mean. No, it is nice. Um yeah. I think a few times in Mexico where I was just like, this isn't right. And I mean, when it came to like my specific job, and someone complained about me, and I was just like, no, this is not how you talk to me. And if you talk to me like this, I'm not responding. But that was more like I was that mainly parents or also co-workers? No, parents. I think with co-workers I never had this, or like it wasn't worth it to me. When was the last time you stood up for yourself? Mine was very recent, actually.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

That's why I thought we could do this episode. Okay. Um, I have a difficult situation at work that I need support with. I have to be very careful with what I say because I'm a teacher and we have to like can't share too much about the students.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Um this one could kid Jack is an absolute gip shit.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

He's an asshole. And so I went to my boss for uh support, and that was not very well received because I got him at a bad time and I wasn't very clear about what my needs were or what I was really asking for. So the conversation there wasn't very productive, and then I kept on waking up, like I went home after that, and I kept on waking up in the middle of the night thinking of how I would go and finish that conversation with him, and like how it would be good and productive. And so I went back and I had the conversation. I was like, look, how that went down was not good for me. Like, I feel like I wasn't heard, and um the issues that I was having was kind of were being put on me as a teacher, and while that might be true, I still need support with the situation right now because I can't handle it by myself. Goofy. So it was not fun at all, but it was very necessary, and I think what I didn't realize as a kid, and now slowly becoming an adult, is how necessary it is to stand up for yourself in life.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

Like nobody else is gonna do it.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

I mean, sometimes other people will do it for you, but it's also a very good skill to have. I think also this circling back when you realize you stood up for yourself and maybe weren't as clear as you needed to be. I think this also happens a lot in relationships where like you say something and it gets interpreted because maybe the way you say it isn't quite clear and they're listening from their point of view, and then you kind of go away with both kind of having dealt with the situation, but neither of you fully satisfied, or maybe one person not fully satisfied, and it's like fuck, I need to bring this up again because this is like it's we've brought the issue up, but we haven't actually solved it or come to a resolution.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Yeah, I think it's very common to have to go back and redo the conversation. And I think that's fine, but it is still important that you go back. Like, I think if I would have waited for my boss to come to me, I might still be waiting. Just because for him it might not be as pressing, and he I don't think he um I don't think he perceived the situation the same as I did.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

And that like, yes, I think sometimes your friends can stand up for you or your mom or whatever, but you know how you're feeling and you know when it's getting to be too much. And even though you think, well, isn't it obvious that I'm super stressed? I don't think it is, depending on what your personality is like.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Yeah, I also think like it's nice to remember that everyone's so caught up in their own thing that like they honestly might just not realize.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Yeah. Do you think there's a difference between standing up for yourself and being a difficult person? Yes. Definitely. Okay, do tell.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Um, I think it's a fine line of when to stand up for yourself and when to just realize, like, with work, some things are gonna be annoying. Some things are going like I don't think work has to be the most fulfilling thing in your life. And like, especially now after the career switch, like I'm very happy not being a teacher. There are parts about this job that I'm also like, ugh. And I'm like, okay, but I don't need work to fulfill me.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

And there are a lot of things that I could be arguing about at work, or things that I see that could potentially make the workday easier that I've brought up and or I haven't brought up yet because I'm like, okay, I've only been here for two months, like let's not jump the gun. And I could be a difficult person if I kept bringing it up. And it wouldn't help anyone. So I do think there's a fine line of like yes, it's good to stand up for yourself, but also at a certain time, like we have become quite individualized as a society, and everybody is very focused on themselves. At some time, it is also good to think like you are still a person in a community, and like if it's unbearable, yes, you have to say something, but yeah, sometimes shit stinks, yeah, and you're not the center of the universe.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

That I completely agree that that describes a difficult person to me is if when a problem shows up in their life or their work life or whatever, it's the most important thing for them, obviously, but that has to be the most important thing for the people around them in that moment. And I think then you become difficult, is when yes, you can ask for help when you're having a difficult situation, for sure, but don't expect it to be as dramatic for other people as it is for you.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

No, I mean that's why you have your friends and your family and like partners, right? Like those people, they should help you and want to support you and everything, but your boss wants you to do a good job, they want you to be satisfied-ish as long as you're doing your job and not being a dick. I think most bosses are happy. But whether you're now at your peak happiness or not, I don't think that's your employer's business.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

No, it's not their responsibility to make sure that you're fulfilled in your job.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

That's your responsibility or you find fulfillment in other ways. So I think, yeah, for me, there is a big difference between maybe also just knowing when to stand up for yourself and how.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Etymology. That's the word I was looking for. Thank you. Um, I think how you use your words and how you stand up for yourself is very important.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Should we get into the next question? Because it's how do you approach a difficult situation with someone and maybe someone who has more authority than you? Like, what would your approach be?

SPEAKER_02 17:50

I think it's important to be okay with the fact that it's not gonna be perfect from the beginning, maybe. And you might approach it in a way where afterwards you think, shit, that was stupid. Because that's what happened to me like two weeks ago. I went into his office over lunch break. I only had 15 minutes until the bell was ringing, and then I told him about my issue, and I was so straight out stressed out after that talk, I was like, this was so stupid. I should have scheduled a meeting with him, prepared myself for it, but in the moment I was so bothered by that situation that I felt like it had to be handled right then and there.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Yeah. Totally know that feeling.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

And that I think that's okay if it like slips out and if that happens, but then you have to be willing to go back again.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

I I would argue the going back again is probably even more important. Like it if something bothers you, it's bound to kind of slip out most of the time. Yeah. But people will ignore the slip out if you don't do the follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Yeah. Um, and what really helped me in that situation is to talk to my coworkers who have been working there for a while to kind of get an understanding. I do think it helps if you understand the person who will be sitting across from you. Yeah. And then you can kind of prep different. So if you know your boss really values one thing or another, you can bring that into the conversation, not to be manipulative, but just to kind of meet them where they're at. Yeah. Wait, what was the question? How do you approach difficult situations? Um I don't know. I've maybe okay. I'll just try to say how I did it and then we can discuss. Um, I tried to, before prepping for this talk, I tried to remind myself that my boss is just a human living for the first time. As am I. And so when he reacted in the way that wasn't ideal, it wasn't him being manipulative or having malintentions, it was just a human reaction.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

And I think just trying to view that person as not somebody who's higher up, but who's a person at a similar level. As a person, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

And then I feel like if your boss has a really poor reaction, if you are trying to do your best, then if you have the opportunity to switch jobs, then maybe start thinking about that. Yeah. Like if you're feeling really unsafe to approach a conversation with your boss, then that for me is an is a sign.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Yeah, or like I've also had bosses that are totally open to a conversation, but then never actually willing to initiate change. So you can bring it up and you can bring it up and you can bring it up and you can bring it up, but they never actually do anything about it. And there it's also like, okay, just listening to me is not what I want. Like I want to solve these issues. So yeah. I like the initial approach. I think something that mom and dad used to say that I try to take to heart is make the other person right. Yeah. And it's very like it's I mean, obviously you go in and you think sometimes like okay, they're they're being mean or whatever. But I think what happens, and I think it's just like a psychological trick, is if you start saying like I'm unhappy because of what you did, the other person goes into a defensive mode. And it's and then they're just trying to protect themselves, and that's supernatural because you don't want to be attacked. I don't want to be attacked, nobody wants to be attacked. So if you can go in and kind of like show, like, hey, I see these processes. And I see that you've been doing them in the past, and I see that they work for this, this, and this person. But I realize for myself that it's not really working, and I I do understand why it's done like this. I'm just wondering if we can like try a different approach. And it's not making them wrong for having the approach they've had so far, but making them right for it and bringing it up. And I think that's quite a powerful tool if you can nail it, because it opens up the conversation and it makes them already feel like you agree with them while you're making a suggestion for a change. And I think a lot of people are very open when you start a conversation like that, rather than coming in and accusing them because they are just a person, and yeah, I think that's something when I tried to go in to like, okay, how can I make this person right?

SPEAKER_02 22:50

And our parents did a good job of like they they would say, like, imagine what you appreciate about this person and try to find something that's genuine. I think it's really important that it's something genuine too. Because if somebody comes into a conversation and they're like, You're such a good teacher, but yeah, and I'm like, okay, this was just so that they could start the conversation off nicely, and now I'm gonna get shit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

But I think I have an example. Um, a few months ago I got on the train and I was using the easy ride, which is like you swipe when you get on the train, and then it automatically purchases you a ticket, purchases you a ticket. And I was trying to swipe, and it just wasn't working. And then the train conductor came by and said all the tickets, and I showed her my phone, and I was like, I got in in whatever station, and I promise I've been trying to swipe, it's just not working, and I know I should have a ticket, but it was like 10 30. I was like, But I'm kinda tired and I don't know why this app isn't working, and I understand if you have to give me a ticket, but this seems like I don't get what's going on. And because I I think because I already brought up like I understand you're going to have to give me a ticket, like I already said, like, I know what you're gonna have to do. She was like, Yeah, sometimes the app really doesn't work. And were you walking when you were trying to swipe? And I was like, Yeah, I was walking onto the train because I arrived a little late and I know this is all my fault and like has nothing to do with you, and like I was taking the blame. But she was like, Give me your phone real quick, and then she purchased me a ticket for the later train and was like, now you have a ticket, and like just don't let it happen again. But like she could have given me a ticket, and I think if I would have started the conversation, like, yeah, well, I was trying, but this fucking like your app is so stupid. If I already come with this aggression, then she's gonna be like, Fuck you, here's a ticket, because I would do the same thing. So I think you get more what's the saying? You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Yeah, very true. I think that also goes into kind of um Ichbotschaften? What are this called in English?

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Like starting with I.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

Yeah. So I think kind of in the same thing, if you can be like you instead of you made me feel this way or you did this, when I talked to my boss, I also said the way that that conversation went made me feel like I wasn't doing my job.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

And I think little things like that, I think it makes such a difference.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

I think so too. I think I will just say, like, I do think you have to be a little careful there. Sometimes I think that it can be too much like an I felt, and I because I, and it's like, okay, and sometimes Okay, okay. Yeah, sometimes you can say, like, look, the way you said this, the way you said this made me feel. And like I can still maybe not like it's not accusing you, but I can tell you what it did for me. But you like I also still don't think have you have to say, like, I think you're being an asshole. Sometimes you can just say you're being an asshole. Yeah. But I do think, yeah, the I like explaining your point of view helps the other not feel attacked.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Okay, let's. I feel like we've been a little all over the place, but in a good way. Let's say um Suzy, our regular listener, Susie. Hi, Susie. Hi, Susie. She she's been doing a great job for two years and she hasn't gotten a raise. She should be getting a raise. Now she's prepping for this convert conversation. She's listening to our podcast because obviously. Um, what kind of advice are we gonna give Susie so that on Monday? No, Monday, yeah, she can go to her boss and definitely get that raise.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Get yourself some white guy confidence. Grow yourself a penis. No, and then you're done. Okay, I always think it's easier to imagine not me fighting for myself, but for someone else that I really care about. Like, if I think Lydia deserves this raise, what would I say to be like, no, of course she does. And like, I wouldn't back down because like I know your worth. And sometimes for me, that's easier to be like, look at everything she's doing, look at this project and this project and this project and this project. And on this Tuesday, she actually did this to like look at myself as if I was my own friend, which sounds insane. I'm oh that's good. Um, but then like, what would you do for your friend and then do that for yourself? Because if I had to ask your boss for a raise for you, it wouldn't be as difficult as if I had to ask my boss, and I would not take no for an answer as quickly as I might for myself.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

That is a good piece of advice, Susie. Write it down.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

I don't know if that just sounds insane to everyone else.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

No, I think that's really good. I think I find it helps to write down my justifications as to why I think that I deserve the raise. And have ready what you are willing, what line you are willing to cross if you don't get what you want. And I think this has to be genuine also. There's no use in telling your boss, I'm gonna quit if I don't get this raise, if you're not actually gonna quit. Yeah. Because then your word loses its worth. But maybe you're you're willing to give up a project if you don't get the raise, or work less hours, or say, okay, next time when you need me on a weekend, when you need me to reply those emails, I'm just not gonna do it anymore because that's my time is worth more than that. Yeah. Kind of have ready what you're willing to do if you don't get what you want.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Yeah. Also, something like right now you're paying me a 90% like worth of my worth. So I'm gonna give you 90% of my effort. Like if you want a hundred if you want 100% of me, you gotta pay the 100% of me. And I'm not gonna leave because I like my job or I need this job or whatever. But this is like you gotta pay for what you're getting.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

And if you know that you're somebody whose voice cracks or who cries, I find it's okay if you say in the beginning, I might well cry, or my voice might be shaky, I can't control this, but I want to be taken seriously, or whatever you need to say to feel more comfortable in the beginning. If you know it, if you know it's gonna happen anyway, like I think it makes sense to address it in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Yeah, I think so too. I think it also like it it makes them see that you're aware of like what I mean, yeah, to also just say, like, look, I'm even if you go in, like, okay, maybe not asking for a raise, but if you go in because you're unhappy with something, to go in and be like, look, I've been dealing with this situation for a while, and it is really on my mind, and maybe it's stressing me out, or it's making me really sad, or it's making me quite angry. So I'm sorry if that comes across, but it's it's so charged in me right now, and we need to work through this to like open with that so they know what to prepare for rather than just having an explosion. I think also for me is so much easier when I'm like, okay, you're you're clearly upset or whatever. Let's work through it, and what do you need from me?

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Yeah. So okay. I hope that helps, Susie. So I think Susie, right down to the point, so you want to bring across, maybe take a a like a how do you call those a rescue drop to calm down. You can tell we grew up in a hippie household. In a hippie household. Yeah. And then imagine it's your best friend trying to get a raise and not you. Yeah. And then you should be fine.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Yeah. And if you're asking for a raise and you deserve it, you deserve it. You know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

Susie, you got this. You deserve the raise.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Or if anybody listening named his name, Susie, I'd be quite surprised, but who knows?

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Please leave the comment. How important is it to know how to stand up for yourself? And when to stand up for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Um, I think it's vital. Not vital. Like you can get by without No, I think it's vital. But I think like to teach also if you're a parent or a teacher or someone who works with kids, to teach them when to stand up to you is such a service to them. Okay. Multiple times when I was a teacher, I was like, if you don't agree with me, come and talk to me. And if I react negatively, leave and come back the next day. But don't let me get away with reacting negatively and then you feel like shit. Because just because I'm an I just because I'm the authority does not mean I get to do this. And like building that with them of like, come and question me. I'm allowed to be, you're allowed to question me. I might set you straight, I might yell at you, and you can question me in a certain way. You're not allowed to just say I think you're wrong, and then like not explain yourself. But like it is a really important skill to know that you can question authority and how to.

SPEAKER_02 32:35

I think the how to is the most important of it. Because if you do it the wrong way consistently, and as we said before, it's totally normal that it slips out in the wrong way every now and again. But if you consistently don't do it in a good and um like in a how do you say volvolent? Like a a well-meaning uh Yeah, yeah. With a well like well-natured Yeah, good natured. Good natured. Then it can come across as complaining.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

And yeah, I think that and also like I do think knowing when to complain, because sometimes I mean I also with the internet, you see people complain about stuff, and you're like, the world does not revolve around you. And I've also had students where I'm like, whoa, relax. You are not the most important thing since sliced bread. Like sliced bread is pretty cool, but there have been a lot of other things.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Sliced bread, I haven't heard that one in forever.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

But also like sometimes it is worth reacting. Sometimes it is worth being like, am I just in my head? Is there something else that's bothering me and I'm overreacting to this situation? Because I think that also happens quite a lot, too.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

And if you're unsure, it can make sense to no it can make sense to talk to people in the same environment. So if it's in your relationship, talk to your friends. If it's at work, talk to your colleagues because they know the ecosystem and they know if what you're asking for is too much or justified.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Yeah, I think so. I think especially I think a lot of this stuff comes up at work, and it's nice to talk to your coworkers and just kind of see what page they're on.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Yeah. I've also never I listened to a lot of podcasts, female-led podcasts, and I've never heard from any of them I wish I would have stood up for myself less.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

I think it's vital. I think so too. I think you gotta you gotta stand up for yourself. On that note, funny stories.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

I mean, I can tell the funny story of when someone grabbed my ass in public. I actually have two ass grabbing stories. The first time was when I was 14, and someone grabbed someone else's ass of a very close person to me, and that person walked away and started crying, and I turned around and slapped the guy. And he was like, What the fuck? You weren't even involved, and I was like, You don't have the right to just grab women. And I was like 13, he was 14. I was like, What the fuck are you doing? He was 14? Yeah, like we were all teenagers. Um, and then I went outside to the person who was crying, and they're like, Why didn't I react? And I was like, It's okay, I slapped them, and they're like, You did? And I was like, Yeah. And then another time. Nice, this was when I was older. Uh, it was actually the first night I met my ex-boyfriend. He was hanging out with some guys, and we decided to go to a bar with them, and I was already quite tipsy, and his friend walked up and grabbed my ass, and I turned around and I said, What the fuck are you doing? And he was like, Oh, it's a compliment. And I was like, Excuse you? I was like, first of all, I was drunk, so I was like, I was like, that's not a compliment. You don't get to grab me like that. And he was like, Whatever, calm down. And I was like, No. And then I turned around and I like Sharon whisk with me, and I was like, I'm not going to a bar with this guy. And she's like, Nope. And so we turned and walked around, like, started walking the other way. And then my ex-boyfriend like ran up to us and was like, Where are you guys going? Don't you want to come to a bar? And I was like, No, your friend just grabbed my ass. I'm I'm done. And he was like, Okay, can I come with you guys?

SPEAKER_02 36:36

Nice. That's a that's a decent reaction.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

Yeah, but I was in a safe situation, like I was around a lot of people, yeah. Yeah, in both those situations, I was around people that had my back as well.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

So and I also think sometimes you're you're caught off guard, like you're just caught so off guard in situations like that that you don't know how to react. Yeah, or the first thing that comes out is like a ha ha or yeah, or you freeze completely because it's so uncomfortable. So kudos that you could react.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Yeah, I'm pretty proud of my freeze. Those are like also moments that I'm quite proud that I reacted.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

So, not that it always happens, but those two are like that's insane.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

I've never gotten my ass grabbed.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Good. That means younger men are hopefully learning. Maybe don't grab people.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

We're caught on.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Don't grab people unless they very much show you that they want to be grabbed. If they're walking in front of you talking to someone else, that's not a sign that they want you to grab their ass.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

No.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

No. No matter how tight their pants are.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Yeah, no matter what the clothing, like what how is that how is that even? Anyway. My standing up for myself story is very different. So I um uh like as I've mentioned a gazillion times, I talked to my boss and it didn't go well, and then I couldn't sleep, and so I went back, and I kid you not, I almost instantly started to cry. But he had the sweetest reaction. I was like, I told him my point. It's not not instantly, I brought my point across, and then he kind of asked me more in depth what was the issue, and then I started to cry. And then I was like, oh my god, I knew this would happen. I'm so sorry. And he was so sweet about it. He was like, that's okay, you're not the first person to cry in this office.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Aww, that's a good reaction.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Yeah, and I just realized how different he is from my last boss. Like, with my last boss, I wouldn't even have felt comfortable to go and talk about something like this, or to cry in front of him. Like, I would have said, I'm out, I need to go to the bathroom, or something. So I think if you're at a job and you're like, oh, I would never go to my boss for help, or I could never show emotions in front of them because of how they make me feel, yes, then maybe you want to start looking around if there's something else there. Yeah. Or go to a different department where your boss isn't as close quarters to you, or find somebody else who can help you besides your boss.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

I think that there are definitely you don't need to rely on your boss necessarily. But I have seen it. I'll like if you have a shitty boss, it makes your work situation so much more difficult. And if you are a boss and you can show that understanding for a co-worker, good job. Way to be a good person.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Way to be a good person. So, Susie, stand up for yourself. Go get you that raise, girl.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Yeah. Don't be an asshole. Don't be an asshole.